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Headline [music] edition July 8th 1947.
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The Army Air Forces has announced that a flying disc has been found and is now in the possession of the army.
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However, there have been a certain percentage [music] of this volume of reports that have been made by credible
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observers of relatively incredible things.
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Uh there is very compelling evidence that we uh we may not be alone. Whatever that means.
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There's a whole fleet of them. Look on the NSA, dude. [music] American public and global public
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finally understands [music] UFOs are real. Non-human exotic origin vehicles that have either [music] landed or crashed.
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All right, Lou. How are you, my friend?
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You know, brother, uh it's uh lately it's been a bit like that old saying. We laughed, we cried. Um as you may know,
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I'm in the process of moving across the country and uh it's it's logistically it's been a challenge. You know, it's
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it's tough enough to move across the country uh all your household goods, but when you're a cheapo like me, you tend to do it by yourself. You don't want to
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hire a company. And and my wife is even cheaper, so we're doing it all ourselves. And oh, by the way, let's throw in the mix, you know, besides
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moving vehicles and household goods and U-Haul trucks, five German Shepherds. And so, uh, yeah, across the country.
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So, let's see. Yesterday, I finally got home with yet another load. Uh, I I had this incredibly long flatbed trailer that was
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like almost 50 feet long that I wound up bringing some of the Jeeps over. Had some problems with the axle. finally went up to Wisconsin, picked it up after
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it was repaired, brought the Jeeps finally home, took the trailer back uh to Wyoming because it was actually my neighbor. So, I I dropped it off for
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him. Then I came back with uh my old hunting truck. Now, my old hunting truck, I call her old Bessie. You have to understand, she looks like a
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nightmare. Uh she's kind of patchy black and maybe some spots of purple on it uh from the original paint job. Uh doesn't
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have any bumpers. Um she's designed to be a field truck, right? So, I you go hunting and then you put, you know, you put the the the deer in the back and you
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come back home. Um, she's probably not very street legal at this point because it is really just a hunting truck. So,
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by the way, decided to drive my hunting truck back with a trailer uh to bring back my wife's most prized possession.
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Now, what is that prized possession? Is it a diamond ring? No, it's not. Uh, is it a fancy sports car? It's not. Well,
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is it a a Picasso or some sort of painting? It's not. What is it? It's a lawn mower.
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That's right. My wife's favorite possession in the world happens to be a ZTR riding lawn mower. Uh to the point
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where she said, "If you forget that lawn mower on your way back, you will find yourself divorced." So, uh I put the the
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little John Deere tractor uh on the back of the bed of the pickup. Um, and then I secured it the best I could. And then I I took my wife's ZTR, drove that on the
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flatbed, and we drove for 2,000 mi with no air conditioning, no defrost through the rain, uh, all four days. And, um,
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this truck has a lot of, it's got over 200 and some thousand miles. So, I take care of her, but she's, you know, she's old, but she's very reliable. So, like a
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lot of us old people, you know, we got to go a little slower. We can't, you know, you don't want to, you don't want to abuse the engine. Um, and so I was
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constantly tinkering here and there. And of course, just like the first time I came across country, uh, this last time with the Jeeps, guess what? I had
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trailer issues again. Yes, even on the little teeny utility trailer. So, um, I got about halfway through my trip, realized, oh my gosh, the the tires are
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completely bald. Um, and by the way, I didn't start off that way. It's not like, well, Lou, didn't you check the tires before you left? Yes, I did. But
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apparently these utility trailers aren't really designed for uh long hauls.
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They're designed to just kind of go from house to house, maybe with a lawn mower.
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They're not designed to go thousands and thousands of miles. Well, that's what this one did. So, I had to wind up finding a place in the middle of the night that had a spare rim and tire and
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bought two of them and in the parking lot replace rims and tires. And anyways,
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it was like uh it was like a circus for me. Um, and fortunately my poor my poor little puppies were not with me. They were already here in the DC area. So I
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spared them u that drama and got home just in the nick of time to take Jennifer to the airport and now she's heading back out yet again.
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Wow. What a Yeah, that's a lot. That's an awful lot. I'm glad it worked out and I'm glad you're here today because there are a lot of things that we're going to cover today.
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Okay.
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And we're gonna jump straight in. Lou, we're gonna jump straight in.
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Let's go. Saloo, there was recently a very public disagreement between yourself, UAP Gerb following comments he
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made during an interview with Ross Koultart um about your alleged connection to the legacy program. Now, I appreciate that accusations around
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someone's integrity can be taken very seriously, especially in a subject where trust is so important. A lot of people in this community have a great deal of respect
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for both of you, and many were disappointed to see two people they admire at odds. What would you like those people to understand about what
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happened and where your head's at today now that you've had some time to reflect on it?
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Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm disappointed, too. Um, I mean, it was it was it upset me enough where I literally pulled over on the side of the road and and decided
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to to make a video to to counter the the the the baseless accusations. Look, when social media is one thing, right? We all understand social media can be a
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dumpster fire and pretty much anybody and everybody can jump in. It's like this proverbial mosh pit where, you know, you have these factions of, well, we're, you know, team Lou. Well, we
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we're we're team so and so. We, you know, whatever. I don't have really have time to pay attention much to that. But when someone comes out on mainstream
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media, right, that that that goes beyond the UFO community to people who've never really taken the topic seriously, maybe they're now considering to taking the
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topic seriously. Um, and they hear information, they're presuming that information's been vetted already, right? And and when information is
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provided that hasn't been vetted and and worse is is completely not accurate, not not even slightly accurate, is it's completely false, then that's a problem
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because we have an obligation in the media to do our due diligence, right?
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Journalistic integrity, things like that that matter because people are counting on you to vet information before you
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just spew it out, right? And that's why we have faith and confidence in in in our media outlets. And when you don't do that, you actually undermine not just
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the person that is is the target of the misinformation, but you actually are undermining disclosure itself because
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the general public hears that and they get wrong information. Then later when it turns out to be like in this case completely not factually correct. Then
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then people walk away with confusion, right? And say, "But what why is this the way it is? And why why am I hearing
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this when it's that?" And it creates confusion and and it actually can it can do even more. It can create a sense of
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resentment, a sense of resentment for some people um and fear. And so we we have to be very careful. That's why I'm always even when we're talking, right?
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If there's something I I say I don't know, there's things that I think, things that I know, and then there's things that I have no clue about. Um and that's where we have to be careful. And
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and when you are when you're using dubious sources of information, right, or or what we call even hearsay, well, sell and so I heard them say that and I heard that's not information, right?
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That's gossip. You you got to you got to show the receipts. Um yeah, the wise don't don't speak about it because in this particular case, that
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information that came out was wrong. And all someone had to do was pick up the phone and call me and say, "Hey, Lou, uh like your neighbor, right? Like, hey,
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you go to your neighbor, you selling a car. Hey, are you is that true you're selling your car?" Right. Oh, actually, I'm not selling it. I'm giving it to my
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niece. Oh, okay. Just just clarify. That never happened in this particular case.
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It was just someone saying, "I've got this information about Lou, and this is what happened with with General Clapper, and that they were colluding to do some
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sort of control disclosure." That never happened. That never happened. And and I think it's disingenuous when people just
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go out there and and just speak to mainstream media as if they've done their due diligence, and they haven't.
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Um, not only is it unfair to the person that that you're directing it against, right? Uh, it frankly you could be careful. You got to be careful because
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you cross the lines of defamation and other things, slander. Um, but it it it it what it does is create confusion. And
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in this particular case, News Nation, which is, you know, mainstream media, now risks maybe never wanting to cover
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this topic again because the backlash has been fierce. It's like, "Oh, wow.
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We're putting out information that was wrong, right? It was completely wrong." Um, and uh, you know, look, I I know
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where the source of some of this information is coming from. People know me, as you probably know me. I don't I don't like to talk negatively about
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people. Um, if I have nothing positive positive to say, I typically don't say.
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So, that's why people like, "Oh, Lou, what's your response?" I said my response in a video on the side of the highway, right? So bottom line, the information was just completely false.
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Uh erroneous and and and I I take exception to it because if they do it to me, I've got look, I can get on on a
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podcast with you and I got a voice. But what about somebody else who doesn't have that, right? They're just going to sit there and be victimized to false information and there's not a damn thing
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they can do about it. That's that's wrong. That you know that morally, ethically, potentially even legally, I don't know. you know, and then the other
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allegations, oh well, you know, Lou is very ligious. Really? Show me one show me one lawsuit that actually went to
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court that I gave against. And by the way, there's a lot of people that probably deserve it. There's a lot of folks out there that said a lot of horrible crap about me that's not true
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that I absolutely could have sued and I didn't. Right? So, these are the things this is this is when people say things like this, they they have no facts to
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back it up. None. Or, you know, another comment was, well, you know, Lou never talked about crash retrievals. Yes, I did. There's actually threads where I've
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done that. And of course, people just say things off off off, you know, off the cuff because they think, well, I'm going to get my point across. Well, but
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if you're saying false information, you're not. You're actually doing a disservice to yourself. You're doing it a disservice to your audience. You're
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doing a disservice to the media company that's carrying your message. You're you're actually doing the job. creating
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literally a a a conspiracy theory when you're the one saying I'm trying to uncover the conspiracy and you know we're trying to get to the truth. You're
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actually adding on to the conspiracy because you're providing false information. And so that's a problem for me. Now, do I do I take it personally in
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this case? Yeah, a little bit. You know, I've never met Gerbin in my life until about a maybe about a month ago, a month and a half ago in Washington DC. He came
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uninvited, I guess, or I guess he was invited uh to there's still some discussion about that. I I think somebody invited him to to a dinner that we were having for UAPDF.
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And boy, there were a lot of people that were unhappy with him. So I I I literally out of the goodness of my own heart, I'm like, "Wow, what's going on here?" So there's people circling this
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one guy. I said, "Hey, man. Why don't you step over with me?" Because it looked like things were starting to get a little bit heated. They said, "Hey, what's the problem?" And someone said, "Hey, that's that Gerb guy." He's been
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talking a lot of crap and it's not true and he comes over and he talks to us nicely and then he goes and he says things that aren't true and all they had to do is talk to us and I I said, "Well,
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I understand that." So, I talked to the guy and I said, "Look, what? Here's my number. Here's my direct number. If you ever have I don't know who the hell you are, but if you have any questions about
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anything, I'm approachable. Vinnie, you know this, right? I lost. Everybody knows that I I'm the worst at keeping my
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my phone private. Um because I I want people to to know the truth. If you have a question, ask me. And if I don't have an answer, I'll tell you that, too. Um
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this is another one of those cases where somebody could have just done that. And of course, people come back, well, the video was was was done, you know, a
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couple hours before that that event that you met him. That's even worse. That's that's now you've known you had a conversation with somebody about me.
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You've met me. you now have my number before it goes out and gets distributed.
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Wouldn't you want to validate, hey, listen, is this true? You know, what's your side of the story? But that never happened. And I I think that's
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problematic, you know, because I've committed myself for the last 10 years to this topic, trying to get the truth out every way I can without putting myself in jail for violating my
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non-disclosure agreement, right? But there's all this this this this false information that's been put out about me
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in the past and even now. And you know, it it needs to be corrected. And I I look, I don't have the time every time
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to get on a platform and correct the record because I I'd never get any any work done with disclosure. I'd spend all my time doing that. But I'm not really
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worried about the internet trolls and the haters out there. I know who they are. They're they're they're inconsequential. you know, they probably what they need to do is probably get a
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job and get out of their mother's basement. But that's neither here nor there. My problem is when someone gets on mainstream media and starts doing
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things, especially on on a program like NewsNation, right, that that's been committed to disclosure and transparency and is actually trying to get this
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information out and they get duped, right? They get somebody to come out there and put information that's just factually incorrect. Now,
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is Gerb responsible for that? Yes, he is. Absolutely. Um, but does he have the experience and the savvy to understand
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how media really works? Well, maybe he doesn't. Um, and so I'm willing to give him a a pass for that. But hopefully in the future, now that he's got my number,
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he'll actually take me up on that offer and call me before he starts putting out this nonsense. And by the way, other people, too. I'm not the only person.
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You have no idea how many calls I got from people saying, "Oh, man. I I ran into that guy last year and and and I said XYZ." and he turned around turned
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around and said I said ABC uh you know I that's why I did what I did and look I'm I'm going to that I said my
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piece I'm not going to say anything else about it anything else more about it um you know because obviously the internet trolls and social media
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haters out there they take information and then they pile on. I was surprised after this interview came out because all of a sudden all sorts of crazy allegations came out. Like I heard like,
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"Oh, Lou, you had a had a a secret Zoom call with so and so and so and so and recently." I haven't talked to that dude
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in the one of the people that I was talking to like in over two and a half years, right? They just make up crap, complete nonsense. And people buy that
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stuff. People like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." And then when it turns out that it's not true, do you ever hear these people come out and apologize? Ever? No, just on to
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the next moral vomit, right, that they're going to spew out. It's never, hey, look guys, we got an obligation here to correct the
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record just like I do. Whenever I make a mistake, I'm the first person within 24 hours. Hey guys, you know what, Mia Copa, I'm sorry. Uh, I got it wrong. Um, but you never see that with these folks.
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They never come out and say, "Hey, you know what, Lou? Sorry. We got you wrong." It's just, "Oh, well, looks like I got caught with my pants down, so I'm
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going to go ahead and put out more information." Right? that's in a month from now that to kind of stir the pot.
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Um I that's that's my frustration, Vinnie. Um no, that's it's understandable. It is. I
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mean, your response video did get picked apart by a lot of let's say naysayers. I want to try and remain neutral in how I discuss things that were said.
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Yeah, sure.
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Some people tried to pick it apart and thought that there was some kind of threat in there because you were sort of saying that we there was consequences to stuff like that. But there are consequences. Yeah, sure.
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I said it very clearly. your reputation, how what are you going to do when your story falls apart, right, as it is now?
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Um, what are you going to do? What are you going to say to people, right? How how are you going to handle that? It wasn't a threat. Very simple. I I I'm
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I'm worried for your credibility because you have gone out on national level television and said things that were not true, right? And made innuendos that
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were not accurate. And you have now in the last year, I guess, made a little name for yourself by by trying to, you
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know, be a disclosure advocate, but you're doing the exact opposite. So, oh, sorry, you can hear my my dogs out there
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getting a little frisky. [laughter] Um, you know, it's Yeah, it's it's I I What are you going to do? I I I worry for you about that because people listen
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to you. Now, people can can, you know, hype up what they want. There was no threat and that's just people. Again, I think what people are doing, they're
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picking it up apart like, "Oh, well, did this listen to what I said, right? I was very very clear." Um, I I am the last
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person that will ever uh threaten anybody. Um, it is it what I do, I follow up with what I say I'm going to do. And in this particular case, I
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address the issue very publicly, and I said my piece.
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That's Yeah, absolutely. And and why wouldn't you? For sure. Uh, you know, it sounds from what you've said that there are bridges that can be built here. Um,
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and if you were to sit down with Gerb today privately away from social media, what would you say to him? I'd say, "Hey, brother, you got my number in the
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future. Do me a favor." And no, I don't hate you. I'm not I'm not, you know, I'm I'm disappointed in you. Maybe a little frustrated, but we can repair that. You
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know, there's been people in the past that I did not agree with and have said things that were not true about me, and we actually w up becoming friends. And
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I'm okay with that. I'm I'm Look, as long as I make mistakes all the time, so I'm not saying people can't make mistakes. What I'm saying is just be sincere, right? Sit there and put your
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pride and ego away for a minute. And look, I'm I'm the master at humble pie.
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I've got all sorts of recipes for humble pie. I think every humble pie is good for just about everybody. Um because it grounds us, right? So I if you ever if
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you ever want to know how to apologize, let me know because I'm a master at that. um you know being accountable and for our own our own actions I think is
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imperative and that's part part of the problem we see in the UFO community that people aren't holding themselves accountable. They'll hold other people accountable but when it's comes to
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themselves oh no wait a minute oh not me of course I don't want to see the mirror. No no that's that's that's a you issue not a me issue. Um and that's
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that's a problem. And so if if Gerb were to come here right now I'd offer him a a hot cup of coffee. we'd sit down and talk and um you know if he says hey man
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look I yeah it sucks I'm sorry I next time I'll give you a call all forgiven let's go what do you want to know you
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know uh because I think we can work together and and there are some people that listen to him um and I and I think that's good but but get your facts
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straight and don't have any hidden agendas right don't don't don't be doing something because you're hoping someone's going to give you a job later because you're doing something for clicks and likes and attention because
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then I I've got no room for then you know but if you if you are honestly trying to seek the truth and you want to help in disclosure then come on board we got plenty of room on board
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you know here's an or start start paddling we'll we'll do this together of course of course now you know we talk about trust trust seems to sit at the
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center of this subject so how do you build trust while also accepting that people should ask difficult questions you're asking me difficult questions
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right now and I trust you implicitly because you you've never thrown any any any ulterior motive at me and you've asked me some very direct questions in
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the past as you are now and I can respect you and we can completely disagree and differ on a topic and I'll still respect you and I'll still have a
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conversation with you because I trust you, right? You you you haven't pulled any punches. You you've been very direct with me and I can respect that. I'm not
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I don't expect you to always agree with everything I say, but I can still respect you and you can still respect me because I've never done anything
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underhandedly to try to to try to hurt you. Everything I do is is is out in the light.
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Yes, I agree. I agree completely. And you know, we talk about in this so far, we've mentioned the UFO community and the way that they take things. And it's
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unfortunate that we still have to talk about this, but there are still people out there that are doing things in a negative way in your name. And I wonder
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if you had a message for them people directly.
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Yeah. Look, you know, this isn't a popularity contest. I'm not asking you to like me or dislike me. What I'm asking you to do, though, is be honest.
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If someone's paying you, like some of these people are being paid uh to to spout out false information, you're part
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of the problem. Um, and I've got I've got no uh I've got no sympathy for that.
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Um, because you have an ulterior motive ulterior motive and you're being influenced by somebody to push a false narrative. No excuse for that. Um, if
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someone's promising you something or you're doing this uh you're putting out false information because there's a there's a some sort of end state end game that you're trying to achieve.
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Again, I've got no patience for that.
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Now, if you put out wrong information simply because you got wrong information, okay, got it. Be accountable. Say, "Yep,
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I got that wrong. Let's move on." You know, I'll tell you, Vinnie, I was I was I was tempted to do something and maybe
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I'll do it anyways. Let me let me let me let me put this out there.
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If if if Gerb or And look, by the way, for the record, I I I love Ross, right?
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I I do. He's he's a good dude. He's done a lot for disclosure. But I I think I think this was I think this was a mistake he did. He did not vet the
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information properly, and it turned out to be inaccurate. [gasps] But if if if Gerb or anybody else can prove that I
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colluded with Clapper to control this narrative, right, then I will apologize publicly to the American people and I
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will leave UFO Eupfology forever. Now, here's the other side of that. Here's the other side of that deal. You take
22:22
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this deal and if you can't prove that you have to leave eupfology forever and you have to leave journalism forever and
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22 minutes, 30 seconds
never be a journalist again. That's how confident I am. That's right. And if your source your information where I know you're getting this information
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from, I will go toe-to-toe and I will take a polygraph examination along with that source and I'll make the same deal.
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If I fail that polygraph exam for those types of questions, I will leave euphology forever and apologize. But if
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I pass and the other person fails, they have to leave this topic forever. How about that?
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23 minutes
I mean, yeah. Wow. That's that's some statement, but you know. Yeah. I mean, I think also what I was getting at in the question, what about people who consider
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themselves on By the way, let me be clear here. Let let me be clear here, right? So that that that is if you can prove that
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23 minutes, 14 seconds
Clapper and I were colluding, right, to control disclosure, right?
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23 minutes, 21 seconds
Bring it. If you can prove it, otherwise don't don't say things like that because it's not true. And I know it's not true.
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And here's my concern.
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23 minutes, 33 seconds
When you are in journalism, you have a moral obligation, ethical obligation to vet the information. I already said that, right? But when you it's like going to court, you better have proof.
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You better not just have hearsay, right?
23:44
23 minutes, 44 seconds
That's why hearsay rarely is even admissible in court. You better have evidence, right? Hard. You better have the receipts in hand and say on this
23:52
23 minutes, 52 seconds
date, this conversation occurred. You two were together. This is what happened and this was your plan, right? None of that exists because it never happened.
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24 minutes, 2 seconds
Anyways, go ahead.
24:03
24 minutes, 3 seconds
Sure. Well, does that you mentioned there about colluding with Clapper. Does that include the same allegations about you being a part of the legacy program?
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24 minutes, 11 seconds
I I already talked about that about being I I can't I I'm not allowed to discuss I've already said for the record that there was a legacy program, but I
24:18
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am not allowed to go beyond that is whether I was part of it or not. Now is people say, well, I'm reading the innuendos. No, it's just like saying,
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24 minutes, 26 seconds
Lou, are have you been right on to the new uh the new super stealth bomber that we haven't announced yet? I can't answer
24:35
24 minutes, 35 seconds
that because if one exists, it's classified, right? And if it doesn't exist, well, I can't say that because either by confirming or denying what
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you're doing is by you're already confirming the existence of something.
24:47
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So, you know, the topic of crash retrievals is another example. I have to be very very careful what I say because I've been told I can't talk about it.
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24 minutes, 54 seconds
So, what I've said is what I what I can say is the fact that I've signed documentation saying I can't talk about that, right? So, hint hint, what does
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25 minutes, 1 second
that tell you? Um, it it people forget the fact that I still am subject to random polygraph examinations. I'm I still have a security clearance, right?
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25 minutes, 12 seconds
I there are certain things or red lines that I cannot discuss.
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25 minutes, 17 seconds
Sure. And whether I'm part of something or not, and that's why I think people would say, "Well, if he didn't say it, then he must have been or he must not have been, right?" I'm not saying either
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25 minutes, 26 seconds
one of those, but I what I tell you is I'm committed to disclosure, and I always have been, and I'm continuing to be committed to it without violating my
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25 minutes, 33 seconds
secrecy oath. And and that's something that people who've never had a security oath, they don't understand. Well, just say everything, you know, and and go to jail for us. It it's it's it's far more
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complex than that. and and and once you have a security clearance, you realize, oh wow, now I understand the constraints Lou is under. So anyways, go ahead.
25:52
25 minutes, 52 seconds
No, I understand. I understand completely. It's hard to even put these interviews together because I can almost see which questions you may not be able
26:00
26 minutes
to answer. So I understand, but I'll still tell you that, right? I still tell you I can't answer that. I It's not like I make something up and say, well, you know, blah, blah, blah. I
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can't answer that, of course. But there's been a lot of things in the past, keep in mind, Vinnie, that I couldn't answer. And as time went on and things got more relaxed, I could answer. Right. Sure.
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26 minutes, 18 seconds
So, it's not that I'm trying to be evasive. I'm trying to be accurate, but at the same time, not do anything to compromise national security.
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I understand completely. And and just to follow on to that question, I was I was also sort of trying to to ask you what
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about people who would consider themselves your friends or on your side doing negative things to the naysayers,
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26 minutes, 41 seconds
doxing people in your name and then because I don't want that. They they shouldn't do that. I don't want I don't want people who are supporting me. Please do me a favor. Please take the moral high
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26 minutes, 50 seconds
ground. Now, I can't stop people from doing what they want to do. There's a lot of people that get very emotionally upset and there's a lot of people that actually know me personally and and they
26:57
26 minutes, 57 seconds
they get very agrieved when they see the baseless attacks and I appreciate their friendship. Um, and I've had conversations with people in the past
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where I've told them, "Please don't do that in the future. It's not helpful." Well, Lou, you know, they're saying false stuff and look, I know that. I know that and I appreciate that. But
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27 minutes, 13 seconds
sometimes fighting fire with fire isn't always the best solution. Um, you know, I'm I'm trying to the best I can and
27:22
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sometimes I fail. I'm trying to lead by example, right? And I I'm trying not to be guilty of the same things that others are guilty of. And it's hard, right?
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27 minutes, 33 seconds
Because you want to go out and and and as people know, in the past when I first came out, there was all sorts of things I could have said to prove who I was and
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save my own skin, but I never did. I always took the heat rounds. And only later, as time went on, people were like, "Oh, Lou is right. Oh, Lou was telling the truth the whole time, right?" Well, why did he just say it?
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27 minutes, 52 seconds
Because the cost of that would be throwing somebody else under the bus.
27:55
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And I'm not a sellout. I never have been and I never will be. And so, even to protect my own reputation, I will not ever expose
28:04
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other people, at least purposely expose other people to to that. And so, for anybody out there who's going out and
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28 minutes, 11 seconds
and attacking somebody else on my behalf, you don't need to do that.
28:15
28 minutes, 15 seconds
Please don't do that. I appreciate your loyalty and I appreciate your support profoundly more than words can ever express,
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28 minutes, 24 seconds
but sometimes we have to we have to lead by example and we have well all the time we should
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28 minutes, 31 seconds
strive for it and and and sometimes it's it's better just to I hate to say it but turn the other cheek. And I know it's hard. Believe me, if there's anybody who
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knows how hard it is, it's me. Um, you know, I've had people question my loyalty to my nation, my military
28:47
28 minutes, 47 seconds
service, my governmental service, my intentions and motivations, and everything in my entire life is under the microscope constantly. And then whenever they don't get an answer that
28:56
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they want, they make up answers and and and make up narratives. That's extremely frustrating.
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But it's still it's still not an excuse to go on the attack. It it we really have to try to
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to temper that uh that reaction. And by the way, like I said, I'm human, too, man. I
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believe me, I get mad and frustrated like everybody else. I'm not immune to it, right? Um that's why I've been going
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29 minutes, 25 seconds
to the gym religiously now, right? Just if take out my frustration on some on some iron sitting on the on the rack. Um
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and that's that's what I've been trying to do. And and just honestly too, Vinnie, I'll tell you, I [clears throat] pray for them. Um, a
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lot of people don't know this. I'm I'm but I'm a I'm a very I had to say religious because religious means really instit kind of means you're aligned to
29:51
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an institution. I'm I'm not aligned to any particular institution, but I but I am very spiritual. And every evening I I I get down on my hands and knees and my
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my wife will tell you this and and I pray and and some of those prayers are
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to to whatever someone is feeling emotionally pain inside. You know, I I do believe a lot of the the internet
30:14
30 minutes, 14 seconds
trolls and and and and haters suffer from something. Maybe it's a pride and ego thing. Maybe uh it's maybe
30:22
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there's some you know mental instability for some of these folks and maybe there's some trauma that occurred in their life where now they feel you know
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some somehow they feel better when they when they do that. You know, there was a there I was at the hotel recently and there was an episode on South Park, which I don't typically don't
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30 minutes, 40 seconds
necessarily watch all the time, but when you're at a motel or a hotel and you're just laying there right before you go to bed, you kind of channel surf. And there was one particular episode where I guess
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a father of one of the one of the kids, I don't know the characters names, but finds himself getting on a computer and start getting into these chat groups and
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30 minutes, 57 seconds
he winds up becoming an internet troll uh and and trolling people and doesn't realize he's a troll, right? He he starts just just going crazy with this
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and towards the end, you know, there's this realization that, oh, you're the internet troll that's, you know, spewing out all this hatred and stuff. Um,
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31 minutes, 13 seconds
people who are like that, I think, suffer from something. So, I try to I try to have forgiveness. I um I
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pray for them, you know, and by the way, I'm not going to say I'm not mad at them. I'm furious at some of them, right?
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31 minutes, 30 seconds
But that does not give me an excuse to behave the same way. And and I'm not going to say that, you know, I'm perfect because I'm not. I I I there have been
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times where I've allowed my emotions to get the best of me and I've done things that I've regretted. So, I get it. And everybody deserves a second chance and a third chance and even a fourth chance if
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31 minutes, 48 seconds
you ask me. And that's why there's a lot of people out there that actually we wound up, you know, really disagreeing and not liking each other for a while
31:56
31 minutes, 56 seconds
and then turning around and saying, you know what, we got a lot more in common than we do than we realize. Maybe we should focus on that, right? And actually, we wound up becoming, you
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know, pretty cordial and actually pretty friendly towards each other. So, you know, these these type of things can be fixed. They can be healed. Um, you know,
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I I again, I said my peace. Um, I have a tremendous amount of respect for for Ross and what he does. Uh, I I I truly
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like the guy. He's been at my house. I mean, we we we've had dinner together, right? My wife has has served him. Um, so I I consider him part of the family.
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32 minutes, 31 seconds
As far as Gerb is concerned, I I've only met him once and it was really to kind of pull him out of a situation he was in. Um, I I don't know much about him,
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but I will tell you, you know, if his heart's in the right place and he's really trying to make a positive difference, then I can get on board with that, you know, uh, provided that you're
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really doing the right thing for the right reasons, then I I'll always support that.
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Yeah. No, I would say he is. I've spent time with Gerb. I think he's a great guy. So yeah, I can appreciate that everyone makes mistakes and it's glad,
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you know, I'm satisfied in your responses that, you know, this is something you can work together for the greater good of the subject. And you know, I'm satisfied with the way that
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you've covered this. I know because I'm saying this because I know there'll be people who will say, Vinnie, you you should have followed up with this, you should have followed up with that. Like
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we could get into the weeds of this for hours, but I don't see the point. You know, you've made it quite clear to me how you feel, and I hope that everyone else is satisfied with that. look that you're not going to satisfy everybody.
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And the haters, no matter what you do, they'll never be satisfied until you're dead. [laughter] So, you know, I I I can't I can't help that. Um, of course,
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what I can do is always, you know, I always I always prefer an olive branch, you know, over anything else. Um, I just look, I'm an old guy, man.
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I'm I'm too old to to to to harbor in my heart resentment and hatred. Um, it's not healthy for anybody. It's not good.
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Um, you know, like I said, we all make mistakes. Um, I I I am certainly myself guilty of making mistakes all the time.
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Um, but that's how we learn, isn't it?
34:03
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We we we make mistakes. And, you know, I'll tell you, I'll share something with you. Um, I don't know if I've ever been public about this. You know, a lot of
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people see my tattoos and whatnot, but there's um two tattoos I have on my inside of my arms. Uh, and they're they're Latin and it says acceptum pineal which which means with regret.
34:24
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Now people say with regret? What do you mean regret? Well, you should have no regrets. No, no, no, no. Not true. I think regret is a way we learn a lesson,
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right? You we have regrets because we realize later maybe we could have done something differently or or whatnot. And so in this particular case, I have these
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tattoos uh for things that I've had to do in service of my nation. It doesn't mean that I I regret the decision I made. I would I would have made the same
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decision again and again and again. But I regretted being in a situation where I had to make a decision like that if that makes sense.
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And so I think being self-reflective and always holding oneself accountable. Um looking at things maybe we have done or said
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that maybe we could have done differently. And by the way, that's one of the great things about getting older.
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if you if you live long enough to to to you know see yourself in the mirror with with with gray hair. Um with with age
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comes experience and with experience comes wisdom. Um you know so I'm always trying to to learn and then teach others
35:26
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you know from from my mistakes and others mistakes as well. Um mistakes are are part of life. Um you know no one's
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perfect and as far as I'm concerned there was only one person perfect and he's not here anymore. So, uh, as
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far as as as I can tell, no one else has come along that's perfect. Um, and that's okay because that's what makes us
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human and and and I accept that. And in fact, that's kind of what makes life interesting sometimes. Really, the goal
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of life is not to make mistakes. It's actually to learn from them, right? And and to keep going on.
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Yeah, really is. I agree. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it. Let's so let's put a line draw a line under that and let's let's move on. And now so
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listen you said at the start of this you talked about this move from Wyoming to DC and [laughter] you know it's led to a lot of speculation online with ongoing
36:19
36 minutes, 19 seconds
discussions around the possibility of a future UAP related leadership role within the government. You know are you able to expand on that? Give us any
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36 minutes, 27 seconds
insights as as to whether that's related. Look, whether it's it's Donald Trump or Joe Biden, Barack Obama, that
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doesn't matter. You know, presidents are responsible for their administrations.
36:39
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Um, I never like to preempt preemptively put anybody in a position of power in a
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situation where they have to now make a decision prematurely or or do something or say something that they're not ready
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to do or say. And so for this reason, and I've done this before, anytime anybody asks me about what the administration's doing on the inside, I always refrain from having that
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conversation because it's it's not my place to say it's not my presidential administration. You know, first people, a lot of people come out and say, "Oh, look, I've been, you know, I've been
37:11
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selected to to to I've been considered for this particular position or that particular position." Well, the moment you do that, you automatically put
37:18
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somebody in Washington in a situation where now they're forced into a box. And so I I don't want to do that with
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37 minutes, 26 seconds
anybody. It doesn't matter what administration, whether you're Republican or you're Democrat or independent or anything in between, right? It's it's just something that
37:33
37 minutes, 33 seconds
that I I don't like to do because it's like it's like a kid, right, having a conversation and if he doesn't get the
37:42
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answer he wants, let's say he has two divorced parents and he goes to mom for something and mom says no, well then guess what? I'm going to go to dad and maybe I'll get a different answer, right?
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37 minutes, 51 seconds
um both need to be part of that decision-making process before little Johnny or little Jane asks the question, right? Here's our position. Here's how
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37 minutes, 59 seconds
we feel about something. Um it people should be not surprised that I've always been a patriot to my country. Doesn't matter what administration, right? I do
38:07
38 minutes, 7 seconds
not align myself politically. I never have. I never will. Whoever is in charge, that's the boss. Period. um whether I'm in uniform or I'm not,
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whether I'm just a taxpayer, I will always support and defend my my country.
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Um and if I'm asked to do a job, I'll do it. If it's if if if if it's in
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the the the betterment of the American people, um but it's not my decision. and and out of respect for people in their
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38 minutes, 38 seconds
government, what they're doing, whether they're creating positions, they're not creating positions, they're trying to find out who they want for certain
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positions. That's not that's not my that's not my business. That's that's the administration's business. And if you look back in other interviews I've done, I've done it with Congress, too.
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People say, "Well, Lou, what's what's going on with the latest draft of of this particular law?" And do you see me come out? Well, let me tell you, I
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happen to know, right? No. You know what? That's a question you need to ask Congress, not me, because it's not my
39:10
39 minutes, 10 seconds
place to say. And I feel very strongly about that because if if I was in government and I was considering something one way or the other, whether
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39 minutes, 17 seconds
I'm considering Lou Alzando or Ronald McDonald, it doesn't really matter, right? I don't want somebody going out preemptively talking about something if
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39 minutes, 25 seconds
I'm not ready to have that conversation or I have not made a decision yet, right? Um, it's very clear that I I I I made a recommendation to the
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39 minutes, 34 seconds
administration that we should consider creating some sort of position that looks at things in our skies, not just, by the way, not just UAP, right? Drones,
39:43
39 minutes, 43 seconds
and we're seeing how drones are being used on the battle space. I happen to know a little bit about drones because I did a little bit of that when I was in the government. Um, it's a problem for us, right? Balloons, surveillance
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39 minutes, 52 seconds
balloons, right? That's a problem for us, right? things in our sky, unattri unattributable objects that we have no idea where they're coming from uh or
40:00
40 minutes
what they're doing and what their capabilities are. That's important. And so I made a recommendation that the the administration should consider creating
40:09
40 minutes, 9 seconds
a position to do that to deconlict and look at it and create a national intelligence estimate, a national level strategy. And that's what we do for all
40:17
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these problems we have in our government from a national security perspective anyways from a national security perspective anyways is to to to put it
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into the system. Our intelligence system is very good at at identifying and solving problems. So in that particular case, let's do that. Wouldn't that make
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sense? Let's just go ahead and and take the topic of drones and UFOs and everything else that that we're trying to figure out what the heck's in our
40:42
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skies and let's let's turn loose the intelligence community, all 17 agencies to to to try to figure this out, right?
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And and and create structure behind it.
40:54
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Um so so we can, you know, we don't get caught with our our get caught flatfooted. Um, and so yeah,
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that's uh that's how I'll answer that that question. Let me put it like this as well then.
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Hypothetically speaking, if you were to take on a job, let's quote unquote the UF UFO ZAR, UAP ZAR job, the first the
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public would hear about that if it happened would be through an official announcement.
41:21
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An official announcement. You will never hear it from me first, ever. It's not my place. It's just not. It's just like if you have me over for dinner, Vinnie,
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tonight, right? And then somebody asks you ask me Lou, hey, did you go to Vinnie's last night for dinner? You got to ask Vinnie that. And even if I don't
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go over to your house for dinner tonight, right? Because obviously you're somewhere else and I'm here in DC area.
41:42
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It's probably very unlikely. Hey, did Lou, did you have dinner with Vinnie last night? You need to ask Vinnie that.
41:50
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Why? Because it was it's his house. It's his business. I it these are these are that's just of course an
41:58
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over exaggeration of an example but it doesn't it's not up to me to say because it involves you it's your business too
42:05
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right whether you had you could turn on and say no I didn't have Lou Alzando I had Chris Melon over for dinner last night okay that's fine but that's up to you to say not me
42:13
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because it's your house and so that's how I feel no that's yeah that's fair enough now the recent NDA waiver effort through
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arrow and pursue has been welcomed by some as a way for people to come forward, but others argue that the biggest obstacle has never been the NDA
42:29
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itself. It's the fear of retaliation uh or career consequences. Given that people have already testified behind closed doors, what makes this different?
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And do you believe potential whistleblowers can genuinely feel protected?
42:41
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Well, it's certainly a step in the right direction. Um every every time something like this happens, we get a little closer a little closer for people to to
42:49
42 minutes, 49 seconds
want to come out and have a conversation. The problem with this, if you look at the presidential directive, which I don't think has come out yet, I think it's classified. Um, so let me
42:58
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rephrase that. If you look at the um the DNI guidance, it's very specific that people who've been involved in UAP
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legacy efforts have the ability to come forward and have a conversation with who? Well, Arrow, which doesn't have a great track record from before.
43:15
43 minutes, 15 seconds
Although, let me be fair. The new guy Kuzloski, I think, is genuinely really trying to to do something positive here.
43:22
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I I have much more faith and confidence in what they're doing now than what they were doing previously for several reasons, but that's neither here nor
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43 minutes, 29 seconds
there. Um, so there's Arrow and then the other one is Pursuit, which is kind of the new task force, if you will, or the new body
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43 minutes, 38 seconds
that is by the executive branch to try to get to the bottom of this. So, um, it's a step in the right direction, but it doesn't alleviate our NDAs to go out
43:46
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to the public and say, "Huh, I can tell everybody now and I can go to the New York Times, right? I can't do that and neither can any whistleblower." So, you know, it's not going to satisfy the
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43 minutes, 54 seconds
curiosity, I think, of the average person who wants to know more, but it's a step in the right direction because then what happens when that information goes to, let's say, hypothetically pursue, then it goes to National
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Security Council, it goes to the DNI, it gets to the president. From there, it gets into Congress. Congresses then gets informed through the various committees.
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44 minutes, 9 seconds
And then through that process, finally the American people can start getting the answers that they're looking for. So it's kind of a roundabout way, but truth
44:16
44 minutes, 16 seconds
be told, it's how the bureaucracy is set up and how it's supposed to work. So I'm okay with that. As long as people have a little bit of patience, you know, every
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step forward is a step in the right direction.
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Sure. But in practical terms, what kind of protections do you think would be absolutely essential before someone with firstirhand knowledge would feel safe enough to come?
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Here's what I would say also. It's not just being safe to come out. Give them their damn old jobs back. You want to You really want to make a difference?
44:43
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Say, "Look, we're sorry you had to leave your job, whether you were fired or because you had to resign because whatever reasons. So, here's what we're
44:51
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going to do. You can say your peace, you know, through these particular channels.
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And by the way, you're going to get your job back with any back pay that maybe you have missed." That would be fair.
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There's people out there that have gave them given up a lot to have this conversation and have spoken to Congress and have suffered retribution because of
45:09
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it. Um I I think it's only fair that you know you've come out and and said your peace. You're a patriot. You were doing
45:16
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what you were supposed to do and and so you know here's here's your your old job. And if you can't get your old job back, here's
45:23
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another job that's that's you know equivalent to what you had before. So at least you can pay your mortgage and you can pay your electric bill and you know you can continue to provide for your family. I think that's fair.
45:34
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No absolutely. You know you look at the likes of Dylan Boland or Matthew Brown who have come forward testified
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privately and they'll never get a job right again in that you know.
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So it's not just exactly my point. It's not just hey what do you want to do? How how what do we need to do for you to feel safe to come out and and have a
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conversation? No, it's also, hey, this is what we're going to do to incentivize you coming forward. You're going to get your old job back. Okay. Well, you know
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what? That is a big indicator to me that someone's very serious about about getting to the bottom of this. That would help tremendously.
46:10
46 minutes, 10 seconds
Yeah, absolutely. Who do you think should ultimately receive whistleblower testimony though? Would it be the executive branch, Congress, or do you think an independent body might be the the right direction?
46:21
46 minutes, 21 seconds
Vinnie, that's a great question. You know what? I never thought about an independent body. Now the White House did put together a scientific body as you know with Al heading it and others.
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Um again that too I think is a step in the right direction. Um of course devil's into details right is who's on that and do they have the right security
46:38
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clearances. Some people do not unfortunately so they're not going to get access to the information necessarily that they're looking for but it's a step in the right direction. um
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an independent body. You know, ideally pursue is supposed to be that and and ideally Arrow is supposed to be that,
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but we know that in the past that Arrow did not necessarily succeed with that mission. Um but I I I have I have more
47:05
47 minutes, 5 seconds
I'm more optimistic about Pursue and about Arrow now. Um but but time will tell. Um would an independent body be
47:13
47 minutes, 13 seconds
necessary? Well, in theory, pursue and arrow are supposed to be independent, right? They're supposed to be they're aligned to the executive branch, but
47:21
47 minutes, 21 seconds
they're supposed to come in without any type of pre-existing narrative, right? Or or or or notion
47:27
47 minutes, 27 seconds
about the topic. So, I don't know if you need to create an independent body or if you just need to have a forcing mechanism to ensure that arrow and pursue remain independent.
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Do you not think an independent body might give the public the best chance of genuine transparency?
47:44
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Well, then what you do is you have rather have an independent body, which you're right, it could work very well.
47:49
47 minutes, 49 seconds
Um, you have an oversight body that is a that is, you know, making sure that they are independent. So rather than having
47:56
47 minutes, 56 seconds
an independent organization, you have an independent organization like a watchdog overseeing pursue and and arrow. Maybe that's the solution.
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48 minutes, 6 seconds
So Lou, the next question is a bit sensitive, but I'd really be uh interested to get your thoughts on it.
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48 minutes, 11 seconds
Now, there has been a lot of discussion recently around the death of an individual named Matthew Sullivan, who was reportedly preparing to provide
48:19
48 minutes, 19 seconds
information through official UAP channels before his passing. So, without speculating beyond what you know, what are your thoughts on this situation?
48:29
48 minutes, 29 seconds
Well, very suspicious. you know, um, Matthew Sullivan was indeed prepared to have a conversation,
48:36
48 minutes, 36 seconds
uh, with elements within our legislative branch. Um, and very shortly before that was supposed to occur, he was found dead
48:44
48 minutes, 44 seconds
in in I think his hotel room, if I'm not mistaken. Um, so yeah, I mean I look I there's there's
48:51
48 minutes, 51 seconds
a lot of a lot of suspicion right now around some of the disappearances of individuals and and and untimely deaths.
49:00
49 minutes
Um, you know, but I also want to give enough room for the FBI to conduct their investigation without providing any type of of
49:09
49 minutes, 9 seconds
narrative preemptively because it could it could it could affect the investigation. And let me say this too, the FBI has been fantastic. Uh the last
49:18
49 minutes, 18 seconds
few years in this topic, there's a few special agents that are that are doing tremendous work in this field. Um I know a lot of people like to villainize the
49:27
49 minutes, 27 seconds
FBI sometimes just like they like to villainize me, but the reality is there's some very good people right now working behind the scenes. And um I
49:36
49 minutes, 36 seconds
think the UFO community would be very proud knowing that they're being very well served by people who are truly trying to get to the bottom of this on on their behalf.
49:44
49 minutes, 44 seconds
That is encouraging. That is really good to hear. But but you know looking at the current disclosure effort, what concerns you the most? Is it political will,
49:51
49 minutes, 51 seconds
institutional resistance, the pace of declassification, the current reporting framework, or or something else entirely?
49:59
49 minutes, 59 seconds
It's it's something entirely different.
50:01
50 minutes, 1 second
Um and and I'm going to upset a lot of people by saying this, and it's not meant to be offensive, but it's the UFO community itself. Um it's so fractured.
50:10
50 minutes, 10 seconds
Um there are these little kingdoms and each one of these kingdoms, you
50:18
50 minutes, 18 seconds
know, kind of villainizes the others if they could just get their [ __ ] straight one time and work together. Uh there's no telling what we could accomplish
50:26
50 minutes, 26 seconds
collectively. You know, stop guarding your little your little kingdom here and your little cottage industry because either you're making money or your likes
50:33
50 minutes, 33 seconds
and dislikes. Who gives a crap about that? We're all in the same fight together. Let's let's work together.
50:40
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to get. I mean, for example, it's it's things that like just happened now where people put out bad information that I've, you know, I've got to try to set
50:47
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the record straight that that causes confusion and and riffs in the community. And I have to decide, is it worth me doing? Because I know it's going to cause rift like we saw, right?
50:58
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All of a sudden, boom, the moment I get involved, we polarize the entire community. Why does that happen? Why?
51:04
51 minutes, 4 seconds
Why? Now, look, I've seen the screenshots. I know there's a lot of people out there working very hard behind the scenes trying to undermine me. Well, that's fine, but you're
51:12
51 minutes, 12 seconds
undermining disclosure. As long as you understand that because I'm on your team. I am not working against you. I am trying to give you everything you've
51:19
51 minutes, 19 seconds
wanted, which has been at sometimes very painful for me and my family in order to do that, right? I do not have ulterior
51:27
51 minutes, 27 seconds
motives. I'm not trying to to to control the narrative. In fact, as soon as I can, I want to retire from this. This has been very difficult on my family and
51:35
51 minutes, 35 seconds
myself. I I this has been very tough, but I'm committed to it. And because I love I love my country. I love my fellow
51:42
51 minutes, 42 seconds
citizens. I love the idea of what humanity is about. And I think I think humanity deserves the truth, right? And
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51 minutes, 51 seconds
I'm I'm doing my very best. Do I make mistakes? Yes, we all do all the time.
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51 minutes, 57 seconds
It's okay. That's what being human is about. But I'm not deliberately trying to hurt anybody or derail the conversation or control the narrative.
52:05
52 minutes, 5 seconds
In fact, more people the better. Come on in, guys. This is a this is a this is a group conversation. Stop fighting amongst yourselves. Stop creating drama unnecessarily when there's no drama.
52:17
52 minutes, 17 seconds
Stop making things up for attention and clicks and likes, right? Like these guys that, like I said earlier on, they take
52:24
52 minutes, 24 seconds
false information, then they broadcast it to the world, and when it turns out not to be accurate, what do they do?
52:29
52 minutes, 29 seconds
Nothing. Well, no wonder there's fracture because people are confused.
52:33
52 minutes, 33 seconds
you're not you're not holding yourself accountable and saying, "Hey, we got that information wrong. We're sorry." And it's always the same characters. You know, I'm not going to mention here
52:41
52 minutes, 41 seconds
because I don't want to give them the, you know, credit that they don't deserve. But, you know, you and the community know you know who they are, right? It it's it's pretty clear and
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simple who has an agenda and who doesn't. Um, and that's the biggest that's that's why politicians didn't want to get I just had a conversation
52:57
52 minutes, 57 seconds
with somebody I'm not going to say who in Congress who said Lou, you know, the UFO community is is is it's like a
53:05
53 minutes, 5 seconds
circus. You know, it's it's it's fractured. Nobody can ever get along.
53:10
53 minutes, 10 seconds
And he's absolutely right. People need to look in the mirror. Stop the childishness. Let's let's work together for God's sake. And if you want to, you
53:19
53 minutes, 19 seconds
know, be somebody to people listen to, all you got to do is get on your computer and and and speak your mind.
53:26
53 minutes, 26 seconds
It's all you have to do. So anyways, that's that's fair enough. I I agree. And you
53:33
53 minutes, 33 seconds
mentioned there about the narrative or controlling the narrative. You know, within the community, the word narrative is often used, although it automatically
53:41
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means something negative or deceptive, but every issue has a narrative, a way of explaining events, sharing information, and helping people
53:48
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understand complex complex subjects. And we we see it in the news all the time.
53:53
53 minutes, 53 seconds
But how do we distinguish between a legitimate narrative intended to inform the public and one designed to mislead or control perception?
54:00
54 minutes
Wow, great question. And sometimes you can't distinguish the two. Um I think what we need to do is look at track
54:07
54 minutes, 7 seconds
records of people right um look at when somebody says something what is their track record of providing accurate
54:14
54 minutes, 14 seconds
information in the past right what is their motives and intentions what what do they have to gain what do they have to lose what's the risk involved by them
54:22
54 minutes, 22 seconds
doing and saying what they're saying um it's not a perfect science um I think you know over time um people begin to
54:31
54 minutes, 31 seconds
realize okay that person has pretty much he's got a pretty good track record or she's got a pretty good track record.
54:36
54 minutes, 36 seconds
This other person here, not so much, right? Um that's, you know, and sensationalism. We have to look at
54:44
54 minutes, 44 seconds
people who are clearly there just for the clicks and likes, right? They they they they do things and say things that are salacious, right? Just to get
54:50
54 minutes, 50 seconds
attention. Um chances are that's not a great source of information. Or someone who who makes
54:59
54 minutes, 59 seconds
broad statements without having anything to to back them up, right? When I first came out, there was very little backing me up, man. And boy, did I take the
55:07
55 minutes, 7 seconds
brunt of it. It wasn't until later that documents and emails start to surface proving who I was and what I was doing and what we were doing at ATIP and what
55:14
55 minutes, 14 seconds
we were focusing on, right? Um it it takes time. It takes time unfortunately and it's something that a lot of us are very impatient, especially
55:23
55 minutes, 23 seconds
on this topic, right? Like time I have people tell me, Lou, I'm I'm 80 years old. I don't have any more time, you know? I got to know now before I die.
55:31
55 minutes, 31 seconds
And and I get it, man. And I mean I I understand that but if you look back and and just how far we've come in 10 years
55:39
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and I say we've come further in the last 10 years than we have in the last you know 70 of course 80 and and you now have our government
55:47
55 minutes, 47 seconds
taking seriously you have mainstream media reporting on it right you have whistleblowers coming out you have legislation on the books you have other countries now wanting to get engaged I
55:54
55 minutes, 54 seconds
mean this is a dream come true if you were to just go back pre what was it December 2017,
56:03
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if I would to tell you in 10 years, everybody would be pretty comfortable with the fact that, you know, UFOs are real, they would have they would have
56:11
56 minutes, 11 seconds
laughed me out of the room, right? And that media would be covering it and that there would be presidents having conversations about it and directors of national intelligence and the directors
56:20
56 minutes, 20 seconds
of the CIA and members of Congress who are part of now a literally a UAP, you know, transparency and and disclosure
56:27
56 minutes, 27 seconds
task force, right? Not in your wildest dreams. you you think I I need to go in and get a get a drug test, right? Um and
56:34
56 minutes, 34 seconds
yet here we are. So, look, things are things are looking good. Things are looking good. We are we are definitely on the path, I think, for increased transparency, and that's what I want.
56:45
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Yeah, indeed. And and speaking of time, it was about five years ago now that that we sat down, you and I, and you walked me through your presentation
56:54
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titled the five pillars of UAP engagement. at the time, you know, you laid out your thoughts on how the subject could be approached responsibly.
57:01
57 minutes, 1 second
So, looking back now, 5 years on, how do you think that process has gone? Has it unfolded in the way you hoped it would?
57:07
57 minutes, 7 seconds
Oh, no, no, no, Vinnie. You're not getting off that easy. It doesn't matter what I think. What matters what you think? You received that briefing five
57:14
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years ago. We laid out the five the five pillars or five uh efforts, right?
57:19
57 minutes, 19 seconds
Linear efforts. And one was executive level engagement, legislative level engagement. Then it was media engagement, international engagement,
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and public engagement. You tell me what do you think?
57:30
57 minutes, 30 seconds
I mean, I'm going to tick the boxes of four or five of those. The one thing that still brings up a lot of questions is the international side of things.
57:39
57 minutes, 39 seconds
We don't hear enough about it. Even today, I saw on on X that the head of Arrow, John Klosski, had recently given
57:46
57 minutes, 46 seconds
a UAP briefing to the Uruguayan government or military. I don't know which one. I can't remember. But you know, we hear these little tidbits of
57:54
57 minutes, 54 seconds
other countries being involved, but we never get much more than that. So, let's focus on that. How can we get more? Or is there more happening behind the scenes?
58:02
58 minutes, 2 seconds
That's exactly what I've been focusing on this last six months and for the next six months. And this is why the Japanese now are involved. We have we have uh our friends in Italy now that are involved.
58:12
58 minutes, 12 seconds
We've got lots of countries now, excuse me, [cough] that are stepping up wanting to engage on this topic. So, so actually I think
58:21
58 minutes, 21 seconds
our international engagement is going very very well. Um, our strategy we we we are following um to to increase and
58:29
58 minutes, 29 seconds
this is one of the reasons why you know I get a lot of hate. Lou, why are you on a particular program uh in Latin America? Well, it's the same particular why am I on this program with you right
58:38
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now Vinnie? Because you have an audience, right? Latin America is a huge it's it's it's most of the hemisphere on this side of the planet is Latin
58:46
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America, right? Why wouldn't you engage Latin America? I mean, it it they you have an audience. You have people that are interested in the topic just like we have here, right?
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Why? Just because they're Latin America.
58:57
58 minutes, 57 seconds
Oh, no. Don't don't focus on them. You know, look, I when I have conversations with people, whether it's for your
59:04
59 minutes, 4 seconds
program or Maan or anybody else, we just discussed this. It does not mean that I necessarily agree with your narrative,
59:12
59 minutes, 12 seconds
just like you don't necessarily have to agree with my narrative to have me on your show. So people say, "Well, why is Lou doing this program in Latin America?
59:20
59 minutes, 20 seconds
He must agree with the [cough] with the producers." That's not at all. I have my own brain. I can think for myself. I I don't need anybody telling me what to
59:28
59 minutes, 28 seconds
think or what to do or what to say. Um and that's always been the case. Just because I'm on someone's program doesn't mean I necessarily implicitly agree with
59:36
59 minutes, 36 seconds
their own narratives or their own thoughts. We're all free people. You can think whatever that you want to think.
59:40
59 minutes, 40 seconds
I'm doing this because there's a huge amount of people in Latin America that are hungry for this conversation to occur and want this conversation to
59:48
59 minutes, 48 seconds
occur and they want to participate. Why would you isolate and alienate them? No pun intended. But why would you not include them as part of that
59:56
59 minutes, 56 seconds
conversation, right? They they there's a long history of of UAP activity involving Latin America, South America,
1:00:03
1 hour, 3 seconds
Central America, the Caribbean. You know, why would you exclude them? I I I I don't understand just because well
1:00:12
1 hour, 12 seconds
because I don't agree with that particular person. Who cares? Who cares?
1:00:16
1 hour, 16 seconds
Most people a lot of people don't agree with me. It's okay. We're just having a conversation. And the more people we can bring into the into the boat, the better
1:00:24
1 hour, 24 seconds
off we're we're going to be. And that's why I'm doing what I'm doing, you know.
1:00:27
1 hour, 27 seconds
And people need to understand just because I'm on a particular program, just like when I'm on Fox News versus CNN, right? Two polar opposites of the
1:00:34
1 hour, 34 seconds
political spectrum and I do both, you know? Oh, Lou must be a Lou must be a a a diehard conservative. Oh, Lou must be
1:00:42
1 hour, 42 seconds
a flaming liberal. Oh, Lou must be, you know, all these weird innuendas people make. You know what? I I'm I'm very much my own thinker. I I don't need to align
1:00:51
1 hour, 51 seconds
myself religiously, politically, or anything else to anybody. Um, and just when I so when I do these interviews like I'm doing with you or I do with
1:00:58
1 hour, 58 seconds
anybody else because it's part of that that that five pillar structure somewhere you'll be able to see, oh, this is why Lou's doing that, right? And
1:01:07
1 hour, 1 minute, 7 seconds
I made and by the way, I was completely open and transparent about it. You know, this is my strategy going forward. You want to know how we're succeeding? We're
1:01:15
1 hour, 1 minute, 15 seconds
doing it this way. We're following these five pillars, these five these columns of or lanes of effort, if you will, for disclosure.
1:01:25
1 hour, 1 minute, 25 seconds
Yeah. No, absolutely. But I think a lot of other countries have fallen in really far behind the the the proactiveness of
1:01:33
1 hour, 1 minute, 33 seconds
the US who who are following these five pillars. It would be great to see other governments with their own five pillars so that we see more media engagement. We
1:01:41
1 hour, 1 minute, 41 seconds
see more government engagement and that gives the people.
1:01:44
1 hour, 1 minute, 44 seconds
Let me tell you what's happening right now in Ireland. We've have some colleagues there that have petitioned the Irish government and they're doing a phenomenal job and
1:01:52
1 hour, 1 minute, 52 seconds
they have done exactly that. They have they have looked at kind of our strategy here in the US and they're starting to replicate it and guess what? It's working for them. They're they're
1:02:00
1 hour, 2 minutes
killing it. I mean they these these folks in in Ireland are are just slaying the dragon. They they they're getting
1:02:08
1 hour, 2 minutes, 8 seconds
the attention uh to this topic at the higher levels of government. U they're getting engaged. uh they are proactively making sure that their government takes
1:02:16
1 hour, 2 minutes, 16 seconds
this topic seriously and they're doing it the right way, right? By ensuring engaging their politicians, engaging engaging their military, engaging their
1:02:23
1 hour, 2 minutes, 23 seconds
their their civil uh air air folks u their their uh forgive me it's been a long drive across country but their civil their civil aviation is what I'm trying to say.
1:02:35
1 hour, 2 minutes, 35 seconds
So thank you for your patience with that. No worries.
1:02:37
1 hour, 2 minutes, 37 seconds
Um but uh so yeah, no I mean it's it's it's happened. you have these pockets of excellence in J in Japan uh there's a
1:02:45
1 hour, 2 minutes, 45 seconds
desire increasing desire to learn more about this topic right in Europe the same thing I mean this is it's happening in England as well you know the UK it's
1:02:53
1 hour, 2 minutes, 53 seconds
the UK has been a little bit more traditionally been a little more conservative on this topic um you know but I get it you know it's
1:03:00
1 hour, 3 minutes
understandable you know I love uh I you know me I I love the UK never have anything bad to say about the UK I I'm sorry I can't I I love them so
1:03:08
1 hour, 3 minutes, 8 seconds
[laughter] you know if they're a little quiet about about the UAP topic It's okay. You know, I'll give him a buy for that. Every time I come to the UK, I I I
1:03:16
1 hour, 3 minutes, 16 seconds
I can just imagine the people there in the UK in the government just bracing themselves. It's like, oh god, no, not another not another visit from Lou.
1:03:25
1 hour, 3 minutes, 25 seconds
[laughter]
1:03:26
1 hour, 3 minutes, 26 seconds
I tend to stir things up sometimes, but um no, it's uh it is happening. It it may not be as as obvious to some folks
1:03:35
1 hour, 3 minutes, 35 seconds
uh but it is happening. And there are these pockets of excellence that I just I I I'm tickled pink. In fact, I one could even argue that the folks in Ireland are probably doing a better job
1:03:43
1 hour, 3 minutes, 43 seconds
than than than I was doing in the beginning. Uh [clears throat] and why?
1:03:46
1 hour, 3 minutes, 46 seconds
Because they've learned learned from my mistakes hopefully, you know. So that that's great. That's great news.
1:03:52
1 hour, 3 minutes, 52 seconds
Yeah, I think no matter the situation, we'll always want more. So I can understand it that everyone has their own time time scale for these things. So no, I appreciate that.
1:04:02
1 hour, 4 minutes, 2 seconds
By the way, Vinnie, real quick, I I I I just noticed that you have my book on display there. You know, just please make it clear to people. I did not ask
1:04:10
1 hour, 4 minutes, 10 seconds
you to plug me. I never asked you plug me. People are going to look and be like, "Oh, Vinnie's plugging his book and blah blah." Who asked him to do that?
1:04:18
1 hour, 4 minutes, 18 seconds
For the record, I did not ask Vinnie to put that book up there so people can see because I know people are going to look at it and they're going to come to some
1:04:25
1 hour, 4 minutes, 25 seconds
sort of false conclusion that, you know, I put you up to that. I did not put you up to that.
1:04:29
1 hour, 4 minutes, 29 seconds
Oh, not Yeah. No, absolutely. You know, I don't have a fancy set. I do this from a small room in my house and so I like to try and change the background every
1:04:37
1 hour, 4 minutes, 37 seconds
now and again and so I thought I'll change the book and if it was a different author I'd change the book for them you know it's just a little my own little thing. So no
1:04:44
1 hour, 4 minutes, 44 seconds
I I appreciate that but it was just just to make it clear to your audience I did not [laughter] ask Vinnie to do that.
1:04:49
1 hour, 4 minutes, 49 seconds
Sure. Sure. Right. Let's talk about this recent these recent trunches that have been released uh described as
1:04:57
1 hour, 4 minutes, 57 seconds
transparent transparency efforts. But many researchers have argued that releasing previously known documents or videos without the necessary context,
1:05:06
1 hour, 5 minutes, 6 seconds
metadata or full resolution footage doesn't allow meaningful independent analysis. What would it take for the executive branch or those responsible
1:05:15
1 hour, 5 minutes, 15 seconds
for this process to make a truly groundbreaking disclosure that changes the conversation and provides the public with a much clearer understanding of what we're dealing with?
1:05:25
1 hour, 5 minutes, 25 seconds
Well, we're we're working that right now. That's exactly what we're trying to do. Um, folks like Chris Melon and UAPDF and members of Congress are working very
1:05:33
1 hour, 5 minutes, 33 seconds
hard to get certain videos that we know exists and reports and photographs to have them released. We're working on that right now. The problem is is that
1:05:42
1 hour, 5 minutes, 42 seconds
there's a lot of intelligence and information that can be gleaned through metadata and whatnot um if you're not careful. And we've seen that over and
1:05:49
1 hour, 5 minutes, 49 seconds
over again. And also a lot of these researchers need to understand, yeah, you might be aware of it, but the general American public is not. So you can say, "Oh, I saw that three years
1:05:57
1 hour, 5 minutes, 57 seconds
ago." Yeah, but average Americans have not. And so the fact that the government's sharing it, look, you had NASA as of last year say, "We have nothing relevant, nothing significant
1:06:06
1 hour, 6 minutes, 6 seconds
involving UFOs, nothing to see here. Our astronauts never see anything." Right?
1:06:09
1 hour, 6 minutes, 9 seconds
They've been saying for decades and decades. Nothing to see here, folks.
1:06:11
1 hour, 6 minutes, 11 seconds
What happens a month and a half ago? Oh, here's a picture from the surface of the moon of something that ain't ours, right? Uh oh, yeah, by the way, it looks
1:06:20
1 hour, 6 minutes, 20 seconds
like these things might actually be real. These are not, you know, lens flare and and and refraction and all that crap. Um that these may be very
1:06:29
1 hour, 6 minutes, 29 seconds
real objects. Right now, you have these pictures being released potentially of something interesting on the moon. And so you have to understand for NASA to
1:06:38
1 hour, 6 minutes, 38 seconds
have to backtrack 70 years, 60 years of narrative, right? And now say, yeah, it
1:06:45
1 hour, 6 minutes, 45 seconds
turns out that our astronauts do see things. And it does turn out that maybe we have some audio and maybe some video and maybe also some, you know,
1:06:52
1 hour, 6 minutes, 52 seconds
photographs. Um, that's huge. That's huge. I mean, that's that's been that that's that is that is monumental. And I
1:07:02
1 hour, 7 minutes, 2 seconds
think we need to rather than rub NASA's face in and be like, "A told you we can't trust you." Encourage them there.
1:07:09
1 hour, 7 minutes, 9 seconds
That's great news. Thank you. Thank you.
1:07:11
1 hour, 7 minutes, 11 seconds
Thank you. And we're glad that you're having, you know, you're being more transparent. This is wonderful. Uh, you know, that NASA has now announced starting next year they're going to
1:07:19
1 hour, 7 minutes, 19 seconds
start launching every month a rocket to the moon. Think about that, right? Whoa.
1:07:24
1 hour, 7 minutes, 24 seconds
Um, there's a lot up there. There's a lot of things up there that we didn't think was there until we realized they were. Like water, right? Oh, the moon
1:07:31
1 hour, 7 minutes, 31 seconds
has no water. Well, turns out there's a lot of water on the moon, believe it or not, right? If you know where to look.
1:07:36
1 hour, 7 minutes, 36 seconds
Um, there's a lot of very interesting aspects about the moon that that we're just now really beginning to have a conversation about. So, you know, there
1:07:44
1 hour, 7 minutes, 44 seconds
there's a lot happening and and I think, you know, people look at the trunch of, well, I didn't learn anything new. Well, guess what? It's not about you. Sorry.
1:07:52
1 hour, 7 minutes, 52 seconds
It's not about me. It's about everybody else who maybe have not even really taken the topic of UFOs seriously and for the first time are looking saying,
1:08:00
1 hour, 8 minutes
"Oh my god, are you serious?" Like these are photographs from the moon, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
1:08:06
1 hour, 8 minutes, 6 seconds
That's so I you know, you have another one came out. I think it was a second trunch. have you had a senior intelligence officer like an SCS
1:08:14
1 hour, 8 minutes, 14 seconds
equivalent intelligence officer working for the DNI who who from my understanding would may have even been skeptic in the beginning goes out on a helicopter ride to investigate orbs and
1:08:23
1 hour, 8 minutes, 23 seconds
guess what comes back shaking saying oh my god they're real well yeah we know they're real no no understand I saw them
1:08:29
1 hour, 8 minutes, 29 seconds
they were by the helicopter they're real I know this is what we've been telling you understand that right is enormous
1:08:37
1 hour, 8 minutes, 37 seconds
when you have a senior intelligence person working directly for the DNI to investigate UFOs and comes back and says,
1:08:44
1 hour, 8 minutes, 44 seconds
"We saw them. They were all over the helicopter. We saw them." Yep, you're right.
1:08:49
1 hour, 8 minutes, 49 seconds
I mean, that is that is that that is enormous.
1:08:52
1 hour, 8 minutes, 52 seconds
Yeah, it is. It is. I think I think the issue that I've seen is people saying, "Yes, they're releasing videos, new
1:09:00
1 hour, 9 minutes
videos as well. They're scrubbing the metadata and we understand sources and methods may may be revealed if they to give us the unredacted video. Why can't
1:09:09
1 hour, 9 minutes, 9 seconds
they redact the same sort of sources and methods information on these 4K clear videos that are a lot more competitive?
1:09:17
1 hour, 9 minutes, 17 seconds
Here's why. A lot of times we're in places where we don't want the enemy to know that we're at.
1:09:22
1 hour, 9 minutes, 22 seconds
And it's very clear that look, military is usually somewhere because things get hot, right? That's when you send your military. Sure.
1:09:29
1 hour, 9 minutes, 29 seconds
And so you see things, you're in places that maybe you don't want your enemy to know that you're at. And some of these 4K videos are taken from very sensitive
1:09:36
1 hour, 9 minutes, 36 seconds
platforms. Uh, and I'm not going to go any more detail of what that means. Um, and in situations and environments that
1:09:44
1 hour, 9 minutes, 44 seconds
we don't want to broadcast to our adversaries that may be where we're at, and I understand that. I get that. I don't want to compromise national
1:09:51
1 hour, 9 minutes, 51 seconds
security. I don't want to to to compromise personal safety just because we want to release a video. Now, we're trying very hard to figure out how the
1:09:59
1 hour, 9 minutes, 59 seconds
best to do that. That's what we're we're trying to how do we get these some of these videos to to to come out so people can see for themselves, right? Remember
1:10:06
1 hour, 10 minutes, 6 seconds
I I I was I was saying before that there's videos of these things coming 15 ft away from the cockpit. You heard Ryan Graves saying that these things are splitting the the formation combat formation right down the middle. Right?
1:10:17
1 hour, 10 minutes, 17 seconds
So they're there. We know I've seen them and some of my colleagues with clearances have seen them. So how do we get those those videos out? Well, first of all, you have to get the government
1:10:25
1 hour, 10 minutes, 25 seconds
to admit and acknowledge that they exist to begin with. Remember you look at Susan Go in the past and oh nothing to see here folks. No, no, nothing to see here. Oh, actually it turns out there's
1:10:33
1 hour, 10 minutes, 33 seconds
a lot to see here. So, you're wrong and you're misleading America. Um, so you know that you asked me earlier, how can
1:10:40
1 hour, 10 minutes, 40 seconds
you tell when someone's, you know, who to listen to and who to follow? Look at their track record.
1:10:44
1 hour, 10 minutes, 44 seconds
You know, Susan Goffs or Susan Go, whatever her name is, her track record is abysmal. It is it is
1:10:51
1 hour, 10 minutes, 51 seconds
it is terrible. She has been been providing false information and only when she gets caught um and she's still
1:10:59
1 hour, 10 minutes, 59 seconds
not held accountable. I don't I don't get it. I don't understand how someone like that can continually have a track record of providing the exact opposite information and somehow keep a job. You
1:11:08
1 hour, 11 minutes, 8 seconds
know, if I was in the DoD or Department of War now, I'd look and be like, Li, we need you need to find you another job.
1:11:14
1 hour, 11 minutes, 14 seconds
You know, once you take that desk over there, um because it hurts the credibility, you know, of of of
1:11:22
1 hour, 11 minutes, 22 seconds
the government, it really does. So, uh, going back to what you were saying, um, there are ways to to scrub the metadata
1:11:31
1 hour, 11 minutes, 31 seconds
from video. Um, you know, I'm not a I'm not a metadata expert, so I can't tell you how to do it and what to do.
1:11:39
1 hour, 11 minutes, 39 seconds
Um, and and there's some sensitivities involved because some of these videos, you know, they show other things besides UFOs and UAP. Um,
1:11:49
1 hour, 11 minutes, 49 seconds
and that's a fact. and and unfortunately I can't I can't I can't talk about the details of that and that's fine. You know what's important to me is the UAP
1:11:56
1 hour, 11 minutes, 56 seconds
not necessarily the other stuff on the screen.
1:11:59
1 hour, 11 minutes, 59 seconds
Yeah. No, of course. I think when I look at it, you know, you've got the executive branch or whoever's responsible at that level who have, you know, inspired this newarency effort.
1:12:09
1 hour, 12 minutes, 9 seconds
You've got the the military branches or the agencies below that are releasing the this information to them. But who's overseeing it? who's making sure that
1:12:17
1 hour, 12 minutes, 17 seconds
they give the information that they've been asked for and they're not just hiding away the good stuff because hey, no one will know that we're doing that.
1:12:25
1 hour, 12 minutes, 25 seconds
That's why we need a UAP's and a drone.
1:12:29
1 hour, 12 minutes, 29 seconds
That's exactly why we need somebody who's going to force that. We need somebody who's going to get up every month in front of the American people just like you're doing on a podcast and
1:12:37
1 hour, 12 minutes, 37 seconds
say, "Here's what we're doing. This is what we found. This is what we didn't find. This is what we set out we were going to do. Here's the things that we have done. Here's the things that we
1:12:45
1 hour, 12 minutes, 45 seconds
haven't done yet. Here's when we expect to have those completed, right? Fire aside chat. There are some things you can do to increase transparency. I'm
1:12:52
1 hour, 12 minutes, 52 seconds
sorry, my dog's whining at the door again.
1:12:55
1 hour, 12 minutes, 55 seconds
Um, uh, there are things we can do to increase transparency and faith and confidence by the American people. And some of that is to just have a
1:13:02
1 hour, 13 minutes, 2 seconds
conversation. Like, if I was ever in charge of of Arrow or one of these other organizations, every single month, I'd have a report card on myself. I would do
1:13:10
1 hour, 13 minutes, 10 seconds
an hour interview. You can ask me anything you want. Here's where we are.
1:13:15
1 hour, 13 minutes, 15 seconds
Here's the report card of of what we set out we were going to do. You know, we're getting an A in this area. We're getting a B in this area. We're getting a C
1:13:22
1 hour, 13 minutes, 22 seconds
minus in this area. But here's what we're going to do to take that C minus and bring it up to a B. Right? That helps and and and being able to answer
1:13:31
1 hour, 13 minutes, 31 seconds
just like we're doing here, having having a conversation. Um ultimately, what happens when you don't have information, you get a void. And in that void, people can throw whatever junk and
1:13:40
1 hour, 13 minutes, 40 seconds
garbage they want to. So, to fix that, you communicate. Uh, and I think members of Congress are doing a very good job. I think Eric Burles, I think, uh,
1:13:49
1 hour, 13 minutes, 49 seconds
Timberchad and Luna are doing a fantastic job as as it uh, relates to um, to transparency. Uh, Moscowitz as
1:13:58
1 hour, 13 minutes, 58 seconds
well and some other folks as well and on the Senate side. There's a lot of folks on the Senate side too that I think are working very hard behind the scenes to
1:14:05
1 hour, 14 minutes, 5 seconds
to to continue to increase transparency for the American people. Um, all that helps. All all that is all that that
1:14:13
1 hour, 14 minutes, 13 seconds
helps. And by the way, you know, we really have to give credit where credit is due. You have people that are working very hard behind the scenes like again
1:14:21
1 hour, 14 minutes, 21 seconds
like Eric Berles and some of these others to to give the American people what what they deserve, which is truth.
1:14:28
1 hour, 14 minutes, 28 seconds
And so for that, I you know, I I I'm a huge fan of any. And again, this is this is politics aside. I don't care what side of the political aisle you're on.
1:14:37
1 hour, 14 minutes, 37 seconds
If you're for truth and transparency, I can get behind that. I I can support that.
1:14:42
1 hour, 14 minutes, 42 seconds
Absolutely. I agree. And this was always going to be something I think we've learned that it takes time. It really does. Um I think some people are
1:14:51
1 hour, 14 minutes, 51 seconds
thinking, well, surely the time's up by now, but you know, that's just not how it works.
1:14:57
1 hour, 14 minutes, 57 seconds
Well, again, I would say look in the rearview mirror. I mean, we still got a a ways to go, but if you look in the rearview mirror, we've come a long ways, man. Yeah. Yeah.
1:15:05
1 hour, 15 minutes, 5 seconds
We've crossed mountains and deserts and oceans together. We've we've we've come a long way and I think we should be be be proud of that. I think because
1:15:14
1 hour, 15 minutes, 14 seconds
collectively we're here because of everybody what we're doing, you know, not just me. It's not just the L show.
1:15:19
1 hour, 15 minutes, 19 seconds
It's never has been. You know, you've got incredible people like the members of Congress, people like Chris Melon, the UAP uh UAPDF folks. You got people
1:15:28
1 hour, 15 minutes, 28 seconds
like you, right, that are willing to ask the hard questions, have people like me on your show and and hold my feet to the fire and and you know, say, "Hey, Lou,
1:15:37
1 hour, 15 minutes, 37 seconds
you know, this is going to be an uncomfortable question, but you know, in the spirit of transparency, what do you think about XYZ?" That's exactly how how we win. That's that's that's how we win.
1:15:48
1 hour, 15 minutes, 48 seconds
It is. Yeah, it is. I want to bring it back because you mentioned imminent there and obviously there was a process to to get that book out going through
1:15:55
1 hour, 15 minutes, 55 seconds
doser and things like that but since the release of your book have you been through the doppser process uh again at all or any other ongoing reviews or approvals from intelligence agencies?
1:16:07
1 hour, 16 minutes, 7 seconds
You sly guy man. I will say this very simply. Yes.
1:16:15
1 hour, 16 minutes, 15 seconds
Okay.
1:16:16
1 hour, 16 minutes, 16 seconds
I I I I knew there probably wouldn't be much uh meat for the for the answer to that, but I had to.
1:16:22
1 hour, 16 minutes, 22 seconds
Vinnie, you asked some great Let me tell you, man. If there's anybody who likes to to see me squirt, man, it's you. You ask me some great questions, man. I just
1:16:30
1 hour, 16 minutes, 30 seconds
got to tell you, [gasps] you know, people are always getting on me, oh, that guy asked you softball questions.
1:16:35
1 hour, 16 minutes, 35 seconds
I'm like, not Vinnie. [laughter] Well, thank you. I do appreciate that.
1:16:39
1 hour, 16 minutes, 39 seconds
And like I said at the start, these interviews I have to try and come up with a variation of questions that aren't just can't answer that, can't answer that for good reason. So yeah, it
1:16:48
1 hour, 16 minutes, 48 seconds
is. So I appreciate that the feedback there. So yeah, but here's one. Let's see. Let's see how how this one goes down. Okay.
1:16:55
1 hour, 16 minutes, 55 seconds
Looking back looking back over the years, is there anything you would have done differently regarding your involvement in ATIP or similar activities?
1:17:03
1 hour, 17 minutes, 3 seconds
Yeah, absolutely, man. Absolutely. You know, hindsight's always 2020, brother.
1:17:09
1 hour, 17 minutes, 9 seconds
I mean there there's things I look back like, "Oh god, what a bonehead mistake." Or I look back and say, "Man, I I could have done that better. I could have said
1:17:16
1 hour, 17 minutes, 16 seconds
this, you know, more articulately, or I could have, yeah, could have, would have, should have, right?" Um, but, you know, that's life. You know, I'm not
1:17:26
1 hour, 17 minutes, 26 seconds
going to get up here and lie to you and tell you like, "No, I did everything perfect, and this is why we're here where we are, and you can all give me the credit for it." BS. Absolute nonsense. We are here because of the the
1:17:34
1 hour, 17 minutes, 34 seconds
successes and failures of all of us together and and we are we're making a difference. And yes, we have to give grace to those who when they make a
1:17:42
1 hour, 17 minutes, 42 seconds
mistake and that includes Gerb and that includes Ross and others. You know, look, if if they're genuine in their pursuit of the truth, I can I can live
1:17:50
1 hour, 17 minutes, 50 seconds
with that. That's okay. You know, I I I I vehemently disagree how it was handled, but that doesn't necessarily
1:17:56
1 hour, 17 minutes, 56 seconds
make you a bad person, right? Um now if you do it again then as far as I'm concerned you have al ulterior motives
1:18:03
1 hour, 18 minutes, 3 seconds
and you know but but we can we can work we can work with that we can work together and and are you're asking me are there anything I would have done
1:18:12
1 hour, 18 minutes, 12 seconds
differently. Absolutely. There's not a day goes by in my life that I don't look back and say man I I should have done that better. You know, maybe I should
1:18:20
1 hour, 18 minutes, 20 seconds
have slowed down a little bit on that curb and maybe I wouldn't have of of I would have had time to react better to the deer that jumped in front of me on my motorcycle and almost killed me,
1:18:28
1 hour, 18 minutes, 28 seconds
right? I mean, it daily goes by. You know, this morning I was feeding my dog.
1:18:34
1 hour, 18 minutes, 34 seconds
One of my dogs requires medication because he's older. And so, you know, my wife is very good at taking the pill and putting it down my my dog's throat. I I just like I can't do it. I don't know.
1:18:43
1 hour, 18 minutes, 43 seconds
It's weird. Give me give me the heebie-jebies, right? So, I'm like, so I always get clever. I put it in the food.
1:18:48
1 hour, 18 minutes, 48 seconds
Well, she learned now to eat around the pill. So, I'm like, "Okay." Oh, yeah. So, I'm like, "Okay, how do I do?
1:18:55
1 hour, 18 minutes, 55 seconds
Maybe I can put in like a snack, right?" Well, she you can put in a snack, she eats it, and then spits out the She's getting very clever. But German Shepherds are I tell people, "If you
1:19:02
1 hour, 19 minutes, 2 seconds
want if you want a dog, don't get a German Shepherd. If you want a child, get a German Shepherd because they're like they're like clever 5-year-olds." And they keep getting smarter. So, my
1:19:11
1 hour, 19 minutes, 11 seconds
dogs are no exception. So, she's learned how to to to to eat around the pill. And so this morning, you know, did I learn
1:19:19
1 hour, 19 minutes, 19 seconds
my lesson and and and come up with something more clever? No. What did I do? I put the pill right in the food.
1:19:23
1 hour, 19 minutes, 23 seconds
And what did she do? I came there. It was an empty bowl with the exception of the pill in there. So, you know, and of course to my wife's sugar and she's
1:19:31
1 hour, 19 minutes, 31 seconds
like, "But I told you how to do it. I know you did. I know you did." Right.
1:19:36
1 hour, 19 minutes, 36 seconds
[laughter] But so, yeah, every day goes by, there's things I wish I could have done differently or better. Um, and that's not just with the UAP issue. It's
1:19:44
1 hour, 19 minutes, 44 seconds
with with all sorts of things. And that's because we're human, man. But I think that's that's important. We need to have the ability to be self-reflective and look at at ourselves
1:19:53
1 hour, 19 minutes, 53 seconds
and try to improve. That's, you know, I had a somebody tell me a few months ago, he says, you know, I'm just looking for a win. I just want to win one time, you
1:20:02
1 hour, 20 minutes, 2 seconds
know. And I said, that's winning isn't isn't what life is about. The the the
1:20:09
1 hour, 20 minutes, 9 seconds
goal to life is persevering. It's being able to go through the storm, weather the storm, and come out the other end better and stronger. It's not just never
1:20:16
1 hour, 20 minutes, 16 seconds
having a storm in your life. That's that's not life. That's not realistic.
1:20:21
1 hour, 20 minutes, 21 seconds
Life is always going to be throwing curveballs at you. So, it's okay. Life the key to life is to persevere, not to win. There's no such thing as winning or
1:20:29
1 hour, 20 minutes, 29 seconds
losing in life, you know. It's it's persevering and and hopefully coming out the other end and learning lessons and being better for it.
1:20:38
1 hour, 20 minutes, 38 seconds
Yeah, that's a good message for for sure. Right, let's see where we're at here.
1:20:46
1 hour, 20 minutes, 46 seconds
Okay, we're going back to kind of UFOs and potential programs.
1:20:52
1 hour, 20 minutes, 52 seconds
Have you ever encountered any evidence that influential private individuals, financial interests, or industrial networks have played a role in
1:21:01
1 hour, 21 minutes, 1 second
protecting any potential programs over the decades? Yes. Okay. Right.
1:21:07
1 hour, 21 minutes, 7 seconds
I want to be very careful because some of those organizations and individuals are still around.
1:21:17
1 hour, 21 minutes, 17 seconds
Do you think a lot of that came out of the postw World War II era or before even? It started with post World War II era.
1:21:24
1 hour, 21 minutes, 24 seconds
Yeah. Which is why Eisenhower had had, you know, made his statement that he didn't warned everybody about the military-industrial complex. But it it's not only limited to that.
1:21:34
1 hour, 21 minutes, 34 seconds
Sure. Would following the money reveal very much or do you think that these institutions or programs are structured specifically to prevent that trail?
1:21:43
1 hour, 21 minutes, 43 seconds
Well, we did at AIP. We prevented it, right? People say, "Well, Congress stopped the funding in 2012. Well, we continued to 2017 until I left. You
1:21:51
1 hour, 21 minutes, 51 seconds
know, try following the money trail. I know exactly how we did it, but you're not going to find a money trail for it." You know, will that ever come out? All that kind of information.
1:22:00
1 hour, 22 minutes
I don't know. you know, I I I that's not up to me. Um,
1:22:08
1 hour, 22 minutes, 8 seconds
so, you know, obviously follow following the money helps. Uh, but there's a reason why the mob uses uh they launder
1:22:15
1 hour, 22 minutes, 15 seconds
money, so you can't follow the trail, right? It makes it much more difficult.
1:22:19
1 hour, 22 minutes, 19 seconds
You have these cutouts and and these little little things that you can invest money into. So, maybe that's the reason why a toilet seat costs $10,000.
1:22:29
1 hour, 22 minutes, 29 seconds
Oh, yeah. Yeah. We hear that a lot. Unfortunately, the missing trillions.
1:22:34
1 hour, 22 minutes, 34 seconds
[laughter]
1:22:35
1 hour, 22 minutes, 35 seconds
Yeah. What's a decimal point, right? Well, very big one. Yeah.
1:22:42
1 hour, 22 minutes, 42 seconds
Hypothetically speaking, then if someone from a highly compartmentalized program approached you tomorrow asking for advice, what's the first thing you would tell them?
1:22:53
1 hour, 22 minutes, 53 seconds
So, let me get this straight. Say it again. I want to make sure I understand your question, but let me let me rephrase it. If someone working inside a highly compartmentalized program,
1:23:02
1 hour, 23 minutes, 2 seconds
okay, came came to you tomorrow and asked for advice and I'll add this on, what would you say to them, but you know, if they were talking about coming forward
1:23:10
1 hour, 23 minutes, 10 seconds
publicly with what they know, what would your advice be to them?
1:23:13
1 hour, 23 minutes, 13 seconds
I would recommend that they use the presidential directive and go to arrow and go to pursue first and then if they do not get what they are looking for there, then go to Congress.
1:23:25
1 hour, 23 minutes, 25 seconds
Okay?
1:23:27
1 hour, 23 minutes, 27 seconds
Because a lot of we're led to believe that a lot of people have already bypassed those channels. Well, especially Arrow, maybe this was before
1:23:34
1 hour, 23 minutes, 34 seconds
Pursue, that they've gone directly to Congress because they trust them more. Yeah. Is that is that the case?
1:23:39
1 hour, 23 minutes, 39 seconds
That was the case. Yeah. And I think it still may be the case. You know, Pursue is relatively new. They're going to have to they're going to have to prove themselves. So far, I think they've done
1:23:47
1 hour, 23 minutes, 47 seconds
pretty well. Um Arrow, they've got some catching up to do because of, you know, the sins of the past. you know, you had pretty direct
1:23:56
1 hour, 23 minutes, 56 seconds
admonishment by Congress, you know, in an open hearing about how Arrow was not really working to to the desires of
1:24:04
1 hour, 24 minutes, 4 seconds
Congress and was actually impeding Congress. So, um I don't need to belver that point, but um you know, Arrow has a
1:24:12
1 hour, 24 minutes, 12 seconds
little bit of catching up to do. Like I said, I'm very confident in Kuzowski. I think his heart is in the right place.
1:24:16
1 hour, 24 minutes, 16 seconds
He's very smart. uh and uh I think you know he's had to take a a basically a a dilapitated aircraft carrier and fix it
1:24:24
1 hour, 24 minutes, 24 seconds
while turning it around, right? Uh which is is not an easy to do. Not it's not easy to do, let alone to sail it under
1:24:32
1 hour, 24 minutes, 32 seconds
normal situations. He's had to turn that ship around.
1:24:36
1 hour, 24 minutes, 36 seconds
So my hats off to Kos Kosowski um for for doing that and and trying to do that. I'm also very very appreciative of
1:24:43
1 hour, 24 minutes, 43 seconds
Pursue and what they're doing. Um, I'm very appreciative of some of the folks in the Director of National Intelligence, DNI, and even the CIA. Um,
1:24:52
1 hour, 24 minutes, 52 seconds
there are still some bad actors there that have agendas, but you know, that's all coming to light. You know, give it enough time, you know.
1:25:00
1 hour, 25 minutes
Oh, yeah.
1:25:01
1 hour, 25 minutes, 1 second
It does. But, you know, we're led to believe that some members of Congress who have been briefed and shown some of this very good evidence obviously can't
1:25:09
1 hour, 25 minutes, 9 seconds
talk about it publicly, but it does seem that maybe their hands are tied. Like, what can they do? They're in the same boat I'm in. I mean, people get mad at me all the time. They're in the exact
1:25:17
1 hour, 25 minutes, 17 seconds
same boat I'm in. They have a security clearance. They can't violate the security clearance. Sure.
1:25:21
1 hour, 25 minutes, 21 seconds
You know, and anybody who says you should I I would tell you you're wrong.
1:25:24
1 hour, 25 minutes, 24 seconds
No, you shouldn't violate your You don't have to. You can you can there's ways to do this the right way, the legal way, and you don't have to break the rules.
1:25:33
1 hour, 25 minutes, 33 seconds
You know, when I came out in 2017, I didn't say anything classified, but I told the truth. And and you know, there's there's a right way and a wrong
1:25:40
1 hour, 25 minutes, 40 seconds
way to do it. You know, this is why I don't I don't agree with the concept of leaking information. You know, I don't care if you're a journalist or not. I don't I will never leak information to
1:25:49
1 hour, 25 minutes, 49 seconds
you. I might give you my opinion on something, but if I know something to be classified, you're never going to get that from me, no matter what.
1:25:55
1 hour, 25 minutes, 55 seconds
Um I also don't sell out. I don't I don't sell people out who I know can help defend my position um just to save
1:26:04
1 hour, 26 minutes, 4 seconds
my own skin. I'm not that guy. I never have been, you know. Yeah.
1:26:09
1 hour, 26 minutes, 9 seconds
And so Congress, I think, is kind of in the same boat I'm in, right? They have security clearances. Um, I think a lot of them are patriots and they want to do
1:26:17
1 hour, 26 minutes, 17 seconds
the right thing. They don't want to break anything. They want to fix it. Um, and it's, you know, it's it's not it's not that easy. You know, I I can tell
1:26:24
1 hour, 26 minutes, 24 seconds
you I've seen Berles himself work like a dog trying to get information to the American people. Bett, the same thing.
1:26:33
1 hour, 26 minutes, 33 seconds
I've seen him actually do. I've seen him pick up the phone and and and demand the answers that he is entitled to receive.
1:26:41
1 hour, 26 minutes, 41 seconds
And Luna, the same thing. I mean, they are fear. I mean, if you want, you see what you see on camera, see them when they're off camera. I mean, they are
1:26:49
1 hour, 26 minutes, 49 seconds
fearless. They are they are like a dog on a bone. It's unbelievable. And that's that's exactly what we need.
1:26:58
1 hour, 26 minutes, 58 seconds
So, you know, there seems to be a lot of broken connections between all the agencies and the executive branch and the people who make decisions, Congress.
1:27:07
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Are we seeing the the these change connect these connections happening more though? Is that do you think that we're getting somewhere with that?
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Yeah. And look, I'll tell you all all bureaucracies have a level of dysfunction to them. And in fact, I would submit to you to some degree you want that. Why is that? because it makes
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it really hard to to to to change things that don't need fixing. For example, there's a reason why it's so hard to
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amend our constitution. And that's on purpose, right? Because you really really really really have to want to change a constitution to change a
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constitution. And and so bureaucracies are there to add some friction and some checks and balances before decisions are
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made. And that's no different in the UAP topic. That's no different with the executive branch and the legislative branch and and and and the interactions between the two and even both internally
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and externally. Um so you know some bureaucracy is good. It actually is there to to help um rash decisions from
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being made. The problem is is that once those decisions are made the bureaucracy can be problematic because it takes a time to get that information to trickle
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down and get people to start doing the things they're supposed to be doing. So it's a double-edged sword.
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Unfortunately, it is. Yeah. Now, Lou, I'm conscious of the time because I know I have you for 90 minutes. Is it okay if I run through some questions that were sent in? Uh,
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and can we I think you three minutes. Is that okay? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do this one. First, anonymous anonymous uh sources.
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What would you say are some of the top successes you've been able to achieve when it comes to the disclosure narrative? I don't want to talk about my successes.
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I I hate doing that. I appreciate it.
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And look, I I I appreciate it, but but my track record stands for itself. And I am not going to come up and and and tell people all the great things I did. I'll
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tell you I'll tell you I'll tell you my mistakes, but I'm I don't I'm not a guy if you know me, Vinnie. I don't I don't gloat. Um I'm not like these other
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people. Well, I did this and I did that and I did this. You know what? No problem. I I'm not that guy.
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I respect that. No, I respect that. Uh Lou, this is from Gav Gav Tolbert. Lou, based on your knowledge or belief, what
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odds would you give that the supposed meeting between humans and other entities, be it aliens, NHI or advanced humans, actually occurred at Hullman Air Force Base in 1964?
1:29:23
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Wow. Well, there was an event at Hollowman. Um, I don't know. I wasn't there. Obviously, I wasn't even alive for that. I don't know what exactly
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transpired, but I am I am aware of the of of an event. Um, but I cannot tell you conclusively the specifics of that
1:29:39
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event. I don't know if it was uh you know just something coming down or if there were occupants coming out and you
1:29:46
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know shaking their hands and having a picnic. I I I I don't know. Um the likelihood
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you know it could be um you know I I'm very careful not to I I don't want to pontificate or or appine on something
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that I that I simply don't know. Is it possible? Sure. But in order for communication to occur, there's a lot of
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things that have to happen, right? It's a reason why we we we don't have conversations with whales yet, even though that they're smart. They're
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mammals. They think and they have their own language, right? Because we just don't understand their communication method very well yet, right? We don't
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understand their the sounds that they're making. We kind of think we know what their intentions are, but we we don't.
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It's not like you and me having this conversation. So, there's a lot of things that have to happen before a species can have direct communication
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and understanding and agreement with another species. Um, so I I I don't know.
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That's fair enough. Curious explorer asks, "Lou mentioned in the age of disclosure that a committee of 27 had considered taking extrajudicial action
1:30:55
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to harm him. Can you tell us about this group and where it sits within the government?" Yeah, it seems to be a natural evolution of the original 12. Um I you know I wasn't there when the threats were made.
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Um I was I received the phone calls from people uh staffers who were in the skiff at the time on the hill where this
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information was relayed. Uh and I can only tell you what was told to me by these individuals. Um but there was a
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cabal of individuals gatekeepers that um appears now maybe a little bit more willing to to to loosen their grip on this. But that wasn't always the case.
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And in the past, they were considering extreme measures to to keep this conversation quiet.
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Wow.
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Uh, next one. Anmarie asks, "Ask Lou, what exactly is imminent? Is there something we should all be preparing for?"
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Well, I uh I wrote in the very beginning of the book why I called the book imminent.
1:31:55
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Um, and I'll leave that up to the reader. I don't want to prescribe to anybody what it means. Um, imminent means
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something's coming no matter what. Uh, something that means it means someone or something else or something, right?
1:32:11
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Whether it's a conversation or, you know, it's it's something physical.
1:32:17
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Um, it's it's really up to the reader to make that decision for themselves. And as time goes on, I think it'll become more and more evident why I chose that title. Fair enough.
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Yeah. Uh Gabe the babe asks, "What's the darkest part of the phenomena?" The unknown.
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We as human beings, we fear the unknown.
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And it's because it's in our nature to know what's behind the corner. Is it a bush or is it a tiger?
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And um yeah, uh it's fear. Fear of the unknown.
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Um because in the dark recesses of our imaginations, that's where the monsters come alive. That's where we're most
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vulnerable. As white children always worry about monsters under their bed, right? Yeah.
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We're afraid about things that go bump in the night. Indeed. Well said. I like that answer. Yeah. Last question is from me again.
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After everything you've experienced, what gives you the most hope?
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I'll be out there in a minute. Herky Hush. He's got his little bed here. He's he's he's he's now uh he's he's protesting. Go ahead.
1:33:27
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Last question. After everything you've experienced, what gives you the most hope about the future?
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[sighs]
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You know, I'm in love with the concept of humanity.
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Um I find humans rather disappointing, but the idea of humanity at large, I I I I'm in love with. We are a species that
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is so capable of of incredible acts of kindness, but individually you'll see that sometimes we do really stupid things to one another.
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You know, um what gives me hope is this this conversation you and I are having right now. Um your audience that's
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that's listening and whether you agree with me or not, it's okay. We're still having a conversation together, right?
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So for me, it's it's that's hope. um with all the nonsense and garbage I have to put up with on a regular and continuing basis.
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It's it's looking at my daughters, looking at children on a playing ground on a on a playground and and thinking to myself,
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you know, you may grow up in a completely different world than I did.
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You may grow up with the knowledge of something and take for granted the fact that we're not alone in the cosmos, right? So for me, that's that's that's
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part of enlightenment. That's part of our evolutionary journey through life.
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It's life is about changing paradigms and understanding.
1:34:56
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Um it's about being humble and having the humility to to to change our perceptions and our narratives on things
1:35:04
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that we've had these preconceived notions and narratives about for so long and now all of a sudden turns out well maybe those weren't entirely accurate,
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right? and being able to to grow from that and not just grow but but but but thrive, you know, and so I'm, you know, I'm
1:35:21
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encouraged by that. I'm encouraged by the by the curiosity. I'm encouraged by the fearlessness of some to really try
1:35:29
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to get answers. Uh, and I I I see certain members of Congress and I just, wow, what where have you been? You know,
1:35:37
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this this this is what we need. This is the kind of leadership we need, you know. Um, and make no mistakes about it,
1:35:44
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you know, I I I have my differences too politically with with with some members of Congress, but but to see what they're doing on behalf of the American people
1:35:52
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really encourages me. I I that that is the essence. If you want to know what the spirit of America is, that's the
1:35:59
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spirit of America. It is it is the the the the willingness to go against the grain when it's the right thing to do.
1:36:10
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Yeah, Lou, thank you so much for for joining me today. It's always a pleasure. So, thank you, Vinnie. My honor and privilege. Uh hopefully I didn't bore you to tears.
1:36:21
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Um you know, I uh I hope I hope you are well. I hope your audience is well. Uh
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and um you know, I'll leave you with this to to all those all my my my haters out there. It's like a whole menagerie I
1:36:35
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have out there of of haters. Um I do pray for you. I do pray for you at night. Um I hope that whatever is is bothering you, I hope whatever is
1:36:44
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affecting you in your life, I hope that it resolves itself. I hope you can find happiness and contentment with life. Um
1:36:51
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life is precious and uh you know, don't waste don't waste it on me. Um your
1:36:57
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anger um it's I'm certainly not worth it. You know, I'd understand if I was actually more influential than a you
1:37:05
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know, maybe some sort of big politician, but I'm not. I'm just a dude, you know, trying his best to to to give you all
1:37:13
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the truth. Um, you know, I hope hope you can find peace.
1:37:20
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It's a great place to end it. Thank you so much.
1:37:22
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So, Vinnie, my honor and privilege. Take care, brother.