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Hey everyone, welcome back to Disclosure Team. Today I am really honored to be hosting an incredible panel discussion
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and we're going to jump straight into it. First of all, I want to welcome my co-host for this video from Disclosure Ladies, Karolina Garcia. Karolina, how are you?
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Hey there, Vinnie. How are you? I'm doing good. I am super excited to be here. Uh, happy 2025 and to be having a
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conversation with two of the most influential people I think right now, right?
Chapter 2: Bridging the Academic and Military Divide
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Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for agreeing to co-host this with me. Your your input and everything is really important and you've been doing such amazing work with Disclosure Ladies. So, thank you for that.
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Yeah, let's do it.
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All right, let's welcome the first of our guests. Hello to Diana. How are you, Diana?
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I am great. I'm so happy to be back here and it's great to see you both.
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You too. You too. Thank you so much for agreeing to do this. And finally, our last guest of the day. Please welcome back to Disclosure Team, Mr. Lou Alzando. Lou, how are you?
1:04
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Great, guys. You just caught me fiddling around with this stupid mic boom. So, this is great. You guys said you wanted it real. So, this is real. This is what
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I have to deal with when you when I can't afford a really nice rig. I'm stuck with this. And uh it it's a disa I won't show it to you because it's a
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disaster. Uh let's just say that that Hooked on Phonics did not work for me very well. Oh man, you're taking me back, Lou.
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Taking him back to the I know, right?
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Well, listen guys, it's it's a real honor for me. Uh you know, I I love you guys and and to be here with Diana especially as well. Uh living legend u
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you know, probably one of the I'd say foremost academics in this topic. Uh, and it's just really a a pleasure to be here. She was kind of I mean, honestly,
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back when I was an ATIP, she was already a legend kind of back then with the work that she was doing. Um, so it's it's it's great to see her here. And by the
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way, if you see me kind of dorking around with this thing, I I promise you I'll get it right, but uh please feel free to have your conversation. I just want to tighten this up.
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Yeah. Thanks for the kind words, Lou.
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That's really nice of you to say, and it's mutual, too.
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Well, thank you, Diana. Thank you very much. Well, you know, we have mutual friends like uh Hal and um Gary Nolan
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and everybody and and you know, it's it's it's wonderful to to see this all come full circle because they're huge admirers of yours and so am I.
Chapter 3: From Angel Contact to Scientific Inquiry
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2 minutes, 31 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. And it's great to be um it's great to be a part of that. Um I was introduced to them a couple of years ago
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through Jacques and Gary. Yeah. And actually, yeah, that's right. And when American Cosmic came out, uh, they all got a copy
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because they, you know, some of them were in it and um, and they were like, who is this person who, you know, is
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2 minutes, 55 seconds
kind of a person outside of military really and in a sense naive and just a
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person who didn't even know that this this uh, you know, that eupfology and uh, government study of UFOs was a
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3 minutes, 11 seconds
thing. I mean I was just studying a belief system. So it was really interesting to actually meet people and it then the ongoing story too is so
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3 minutes, 20 seconds
fascinating to me as I could you know I'm an academic so I'm doing this kind of peer-reviewed research and now I do
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it on the UFO uh topic and what I see is that there's such a bifurcation between
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3 minutes, 33 seconds
like academic stuff um you know and and what they're doing uh the scientists
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3 minutes, 40 seconds
like you know um how and those guys and you know they're doing they're cutting edge and the thing is is that when you
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3 minutes, 48 seconds
do I just did this paper and it got peer-reviewed and people are like who's this guy how like we don't know who he is so you you can't have him in your
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paper and I was like well wait a minute yeah it was just such an interesting expose of the reality of the silence of
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of the topic for more than 70 years you know and and people like how who's the the cutting edge like right on Oh, 100%.
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Yeah, 100%. I agree with you with how invisible to academics. So, academics do not know who he is. You cannot even get
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his stuff published or not published, but I was having a hard time citing him.
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4 minutes, 26 seconds
Diana, why do you think that is? So, sorry to interrupt, but like, you know, I was kind of asking Vinnie a question earlier about, you know, does Gary have
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4 minutes, 34 seconds
anything like in a a book or anything like that? And what what's blocking that there to be able to put things out like this?
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4 minutes, 41 seconds
Yeah. So, um, [clears throat] uh, first off, well, I broached the topic in the in American Cosmic when I
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talked about the invisibles, the people who are basically like Lou, right? So, they're working in these programs, but they're not working in, you know, we
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don't know about them until Leslie Kaine and Ralph Blumenthal and Helen Cooper break the story in the New York Times,
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right? So, eupfologists tend to know though, right? Euphologists because they're really good researchers, so they're looking into it. But the general general public doesn't know anything about I did not know about this. Um why?
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I think because a lot of it is not understood. So there is a phenomenon and the government doesn't understand what
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it is. But the people who are working on it have a grasp of it. Um Hal knows you know how it works. You know at least
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some of these objects he knows their physics. Um, but this is not something that is public knowledge until just recently.
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Sorry, let let me just quickly acknowledge Gary Nolan was due to join us for this conversation. Unfortunately, his internet was down. So, just want to
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send my best wishes to Gary and and and everything because he may well be affected by what's happening with the fires over in California right now. So, please go ahead, Lou. Carry on.
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Quick question for you, D. Um your name was mentioned quite some time ago to me um whack in believe it or not and it
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wasn't when you had done before uh your uh your the your book that you wrote on this topic um what was your field of
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study because your name was already being circulated uh as a good academic uh for other things. I'm just curious
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because of course, you know, I I think from from our perspectives, pretty much everybody knows you for for your book and and what you were doing on this
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whole thing uh on American Cosmic, but I'm just kind of curious, how did you get into this? Because your reputation definitely precedes you.
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6 minutes, 38 seconds
Yeah. Okay. So, [gasps] I've been studying um what you'd call like contact events my whole life basically. uh uh
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you know contact events are these events of aerial phenomena, angels, whatnot coming down from the sky contacting
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human beings and I have studied those as a person who studies religion and I never thought of UFOs at all to tell you
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the truth. And so um so what happened was in 2012 I published a bit about angel contact events. you know, what are
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angels, you know, how have angels, you know, why do angels have these um these
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specific types of uh flight patterns, I guess you could call them. And um so
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that always interested me and I was starting to get um email correspondences from aerospace engineers, some of whom
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you work with, Lou, and know you know these people and they they started some I think you know them, but I'm not entirely sure. Um, some of them just,
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you know, wanted to see all of my data on angel events and contact events. And I thought it was weird. I was like, what
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do these people want? Like, what are they doing? I've never, you know, I like scientists, but I've never worked with them before. So, I started to correspond
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with them. And then one of them came uh, you know, and wanted to talk to me in person and took me to New Mexico uh,
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with Gary Nolan, actually. And so, um, this is how it began for me. I started to recognize that they were looking at these contact events precisely as real
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events, whereas I was looking at them as historical events. Um, and then Lou, you said I've heard you say a couple times,
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you know, well, what would be, you know, if there was going to be a class on UAP, you know, what would it actually look like? Hey, I've attended them, by the way.
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There's some uh interesting faces in there um that I think try to disrupt.
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Yeah. Yeah. They're they're interesting classes to say the least. Um, but I wanted to say to Lou, Lou, it's acknowledged by almost everyone who's
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doing this work now, um, that the that this phenomena has been around historically, right? And so I was going to say, well, look, it's people who do
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these this study that can talk about it and we can actually, you know, like Jacques, a lot of his work is actually
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on historical contact events just like the people in my field. Uh, Jeff Krile, you know, worked on this as well. So, it
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just was like a a a meeting between um my field and people who do this work. Uh
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it seemed to be like a perfect type of uh collaboration.
Chapter 4: Destigmatizing the Conversation Together
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Well, I'm really glad to hear hear you say that, Diana, because I actually put something out today uh in response to
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the new administration coming in and part of that I actually emphasize the need to get academic scientific
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communities engaged. We cannot have a whole of government approach if we do not include the scientific and academic
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communities. And I think that's something that's been lacking for some time. So I'm really really happy to hear you say and also if if I can just for
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you Karolina and Vinnie first of all thank you for having me on. Um I I didn't get a chance to tell you that earlier but thank you. It's it's a true honor and privilege and and now to be
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having this conversation with Diana as well. uh you know absolute legend in the field and then uh you folks that are
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literally taking this topic to the streets um and really that's probably one of the other reasons besides the work of folks like Diana Pasoka here the
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work that you're doing every day day in and day out having the conversation by the water cooler having the conversation around the dinner table having the
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conversation in your bedrooms or living rooms or wherever it may be um you're you're making a tremendous tremendous
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difference in dstigmatizing ing this topic. So, so huge thank you to you both. Thank you to Diana Poka and a huge
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thank you to your audience too that are that are just as part of this, you know, at this point it's really almost like a movement, isn't it? Uh that are part of
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this initiative um as as uh as the rest of us. And look at this, right? Look how wonderful this is. Right now, we are four people
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separated uh by thousands of miles in some cases continents. We're separated by gender. We're separated by political
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affiliations. We're separated by virtually just about everything, even including our backgrounds, right?
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Professional skateboarder, military guy, you know, academic and and and what amazing saleswoman.
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Well, more than that, I know I heard a little bit about your background with some of the movies that uh your your friends and colleagues are involved with. Um, I'm not sure. I didn't want to
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I didn't want to say anything if I didn't have permission to say it. But my point being is that here we are having this conversation and look at the demographics now, right? Where we're we
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have different age groups. We have different genders, different and this is the magic that people like particularly
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you Vinnie and Karolina bring to the conversation. You're breaking down these these silos, these barriers where it used to be just a bunch of old gray white dudes having this conversation.
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Now it's really becoming a global conversation and I and I just want to tip my hat to you and and thank you very much. Well, I really do appreciate that, Lou.
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Thank you. I really do. Um, I think one of the reasons why I'm really wanted to kind of put this kind of conversation together as well is because look, it's a
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new year. There's been a lot happening in time and I just wanted to see where people's minds are at the moment. So, I guess my first question would be where
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is where is your mind focused right now when it comes to the UFO UAP subject? What? It feels like something's coming. It feels like momentum is really moving.
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So, either you Lou or Diana, please, where's your head at right now with this?
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I'll let Diana answer that first and then I'll then I'll jump in afterwards.
Chapter 5: The Exponential Shift in Understanding
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Yeah. So, um I was really amazed. First, it hap it's happening really fast. So, I
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didn't expect this this kind I knew that at some point a type of disclosure would happen. um you know especially after you
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know the research that I did from 2012 and uh at about 2019 I published my book and I was like okay so let's give this
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10 years right and see how how things go well no it it was already happening and so it's it's going exponential and now
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with I think AI is an absolute part of this it's it's uh completely exponential we're interconnected globally um you you
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know, people have phones that can take videos of things and share them. Uh, so I mean, I was really when Lou started
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the circuit of like going on Joe Rogan and people like that, I watched all everything that you were doing, Lou, because I was fascinated. I actually had no idea uh that you were a non-believer.
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And so that was something that I think, you know, kind of we share in the sense that we we didn't get into this knowing
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what we were going to be doing. we kind of just fell into it and once that shift happened. So I was going to ask Lou
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about that. So if he could share like his his you know he shared how he got into it but what is he you know how has
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that progressed till now kind of going off of what Vinnie just asked. Sure. Well I'll answer both questions.
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Um let me start with yours Dina since you asked it. Um, you know,
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our development as a human being should be always, we should be always on a constant quest. That quest only ends in the day that we die. We take our last
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breath. We are creatures genetically that are always looking for answers. We always want to know what's right behind the corner, the next corner. And we've
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been doing it since we've been, you know, crawling out of caves and and and building cities and empires and nations.
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uh and then taking that quest beyond our shores over the great oceans and exploring what lies beyond. And then
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when we discovered that uh you know terra incognito the hidden land the the then we started turning to space. It's
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it's it's almost genetic. And so for me the journey is always continuing. There is no end point. And I know for some people that might be a little
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frustrating like well what do you mean you're never going to get to your destination? Well, you know, I hate to be cliche, but it's not about a destination, right? It's about the
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journey itself and and our ability to learn and grow and evolve along the way.
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And if that means we have to challenge our preconceived notions and narratives that we've had that mommy and daddy told us bedtime stories or maybe my Sunday
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school teacher taught me or my rabbi, uh, you know, maybe some of that stuff wasn't entirely 100% accurate. Doesn't
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make it wrong. Um but we are always we're always searching and um when I
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first entered this this effort I never really considered UAP at all. You know I I kind of joke I couldn't even spell
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spell UFO at the time. Um it wasn't really a focus of mine. Um and so what happened is you know there's really two
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types of people. There's a person that when they have a preconceived notion or narrative and they're presented with new information, um they will reject that
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information to protect very jealously their own uh belief system. Then you have the other type of person that presented with new data or new
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information will then adjust their narrative or their preconceived notion to accommodate the new data. And I like to consider myself under the second
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category that I will adjust my opinions and my position as data, new data, new information, new revelations
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uh present themselves. Now, back to the question you [clears throat] had, Vinnie. Forgive me, I'm still getting
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over COVID, so I apologize. Um, you know, what what's coming around the corner? Um, well, there's a lot and I
Chapter 6: Anticipating Major Revelations
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think a lot of people sense it, but let me just give you a little heads up. Uh, we now have a new administration.
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Politics aside, so, you know, whether you're liberal or conservative, it doesn't matter. Let's just just let's chair the politics for a second and
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let's just talk about disclosure and UAP transparency. Um, these new administration that's coming in, several
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of the individuals on the cabinet are very procisure and are advocates for transparency. So like what what's going on? Are we like on this brink of like a
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a paradigm kind of shift? So having both of you here together and like having these conversations is like kind of brilliant.
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Well, I I think the appetite is there from the new administration. So from the executive branch, there is a tremendous amount of of openness to this. In fact,
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a willingness to get to the bottom. On the congressional side, you have more members of Congress now, and by the way, bipartisan, so both liberal and
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conservative, supporting increased transparency in this topic to the point they're willing to write even more laws and recommend subcommittees to the UAP,
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uh, which is a big deal. I it's it's probably not going to happen, but but the fact is they tried. And there's a lot of members of our Congress that are
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fed up with the lies and they've talked to whistleblowers. Now, you have also a very major event which I'm not going to discuss here right now because it's
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going to be evident anyways uh probably within uh within the next week or two, maybe even sooner. But there's some very
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very big revelations coming our way. And what I would what I would suggest to everybody is have a little patience because it's I I think it's really going
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to be mind-blowing. Um, I know what's coming and and you know the reason why I sometimes I can't say certain things is
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because I have to let things play out and there's a there's a legal reason to.
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We wouldn't want you to say anything that Well, I wouldn't want to jeopardize what's what's coming around the corner, right? So, it's not that I don't trust anybody. It's just the problem is if I
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tell you four, it's I can't control who else knows beyond that because we're on a you know on a on a broadcast. So, I think people will be very very
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18 minutes, 37 seconds
pleasantly surprised and I think it's really going to add a lot to the conversation. And I think people like Diana here, uh, you know, my
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recommendation is to to jump in feet f first. You're going to you're going to have all sorts of stuff here that's
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18 minutes, 52 seconds
going to come out in 2025 that is going to continue to change this conversation
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uh for forever. Um, and so, you know, I know a lot of people get really anxious and they get impatient and they want
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their information right now. Why can't you just tell me because if we let it play out the way it's supposed to play out, then everybody's going to get what
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they want. Um, and so this is not about clicks and likes for me. It's not about getting attention. It's it's just telling you guys, hey, look, you know, I've been been pretty accurate in the past when I told you things were coming.
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It's it's coming and it should be really really good. But, you know, Diana's to with her background in academia and and
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her intense study in history and and anthropology. I'm just curious what she thinks from a human perspective, from a
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sociological perspective, how does I guess my question to you Diana is, and I don't have an answer, and this is why
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I'm asking it honestly. Um, you know, you have you have something called a human being, and that human being from a
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very early age is provided information and nourishment and whatnot. They grow up to be you know adult human beings.
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But what is the toll on the psyche on the human psyche when people are you know not young people because their
20:08
20 minutes, 8 seconds
brains are very elastic and they can they can they can conform more or less to think they're more flexible intellectually I think than than adults
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but as we get older what is going to be the toll or maybe no toll at all on on on human psyche for those who are right
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at this cusp because there's going to come a point where people will have been either born before disclosure and those
20:33
20 minutes, 33 seconds
people who were born after disclosure, right? And so for the people born after disclosure, nah, it's no big deal, right? Yeah, we we we we know the the
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20 minutes, 40 seconds
moon is there. Yeah, we know the the earth, you know, revolves around the sun. And then the people before they're going to have to change, but what about those people that are right in the
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middle that are living through that transition from one paradigm to another?
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Is there a requirement for us to be mindful of that and that um you know
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there there may come a point where some people uh may may require some sort of support mechanism. I I I don't know. I'm just asking. I'm curious.
Chapter 7: The Human Psyche in Transition
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Yeah. Um that's such that's of course Lou the most uh humane important question uh you know is the question
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that Jacqu Valet talks about and h since I've known him has always put that foremost the person you know and I think
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21 minutes, 26 seconds
that I think one of the things that's important and why uh people want me to
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talk to them is [snorts] because it happened to me because I didn't believe and even as a person who is a religious
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person. I didn't even really believe in angels even though my religion says they exist. I believed in them on an abstract
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21 minutes, 51 seconds
in an abstract way. Oh, sure. You know, even my religion suggests that this type of revelation is of the past. It doesn't
22:00
22 minutes
happen now. But what I my research showed me was that no, this is happening now. These beings there are beings like
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this. There are these what we call vehicles. You know what? I don't know what they are, okay? But they're there and they're real and people have had
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experiences of them. And often messages and communications and sometimes, you know, like Gary studies radiation. Um,
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you know, it's real. And what happened to me was about a year of shock. I went into shock. So I was in shock for about
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a year. [laughter] And I still am I still get shocked. But I'm I think that if a person goes
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through that and is vocal about it, like I that's what my book was about was that I went through this and honestly it was
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shocking. Um and but here I am and I'm still okay. I still do all the things that I've done before. I maintain my
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22 minutes, 55 seconds
family. My kids are going, you know, I'm putting them in college. You know, all these things that Americans do. We're still going to do those things.
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Nothing's going to change. The only thing that's going to change is that now the world is way more interesting. The cosmos is way more interesting, right?
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23 minutes, 10 seconds
And we've got people who've studied that who can come out like you know those people that we know in common. Luke,
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I I that's that's fascinating. And I say this Diana and and both for Vinnie and Katina as well. You know, we saw some
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very unfortunate events this last week with the uh individual, the former military special operator who in Las
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23 minutes, 33 seconds
Vegas um killed himself. Uh you know, and and there was this manifesto, but then there was this email afterwards that for a while there, even myself
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23 minutes, 42 seconds
wasn't quite sure if it was legitimate or real, that it turns out looks like yeah, actually it's probably real. It actually came from the individual. And in there there's some discussion very
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23 minutes, 51 seconds
briefly about UAP and UAP technology and and and clearly this topic had an effect
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23 minutes, 59 seconds
on on this individual on the individual who who perpetrated the where he blew up the the cyber truck. Um and you know now
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24 minutes, 8 seconds
there are always people that are going to suffer from PTSD. You know a lot of my colleagues do. I mean, I've I've I've been to enough places where I've, you
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know, I've I've I've had my taste of that as well. Um, how do we prevent this topic from pushing somebody over the
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edge perhaps? Um, or is that just the cost of doing business?
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Yeah, that's a great question. Do what are your thoughts on that?
24:38
24 minutes, 38 seconds
Wow. Well, touche. [laughter] Good for turn that back on me. Thank you.
24:44
24 minutes, 44 seconds
You're right. And this is why I'm asking the question because I don't have an answer and and I'm not sure any one person necessarily has it. Maybe it's
24:53
24 minutes, 53 seconds
literally discussions like this we're having now that get it. Maybe there'll be somebody listening to this to this this podcast, right, or this interview
25:01
25 minutes, 1 second
and says, "Yeah, I fall into that category. you know, I'm really having a hard time absorbing this stuff and, you know, I'm barely paying my mortgage and I've got stress and I'm trying to raise
25:09
25 minutes, 9 seconds
a kid and put him through school and put dinner on the table and, you know, now you want me to consider the fact that, you know, mankind may not be at the top
25:17
25 minutes, 17 seconds
of the food chain on top, you know, of everything else I got to handle. Um, where are the resources for people to get answers that they need to get
25:25
25 minutes, 25 seconds
comfort? What I'm trying to do is I have a small group of individuals, spiritual leaders uh in the in the Christian faith
25:32
25 minutes, 32 seconds
and also in the Jewish faith and even in Islam and I'm creating uh I say I am I am not creating I am facilitating with
25:42
25 minutes, 42 seconds
these other individuals that are part of this. We are together collectively creating a a a a religious um group of
25:52
25 minutes, 52 seconds
individuals from all different backgrounds of religions, but they're leaders. They're recognized leaders in their in their faiths. Um and having
26:01
26 minutes, 1 second
this conversation, say, "What does this mean?" And and if somebody comes to you in in Hebrew school or Sunday school and
26:08
26 minutes, 8 seconds
kid asks you a question and says, "I'm scared." How do you respond to that? Or you know what? This doesn't comport to to to the teachings that that mom and
26:16
26 minutes, 16 seconds
dad teach me, right? These are big questions. These are big questions. Lou, are you forming a new religion?
26:23
26 minutes, 23 seconds
Well, no, that's my point. We can't. No, no, no, no, no. This is not this. Look, this conversation affects religion, but it is not religion. And this is why we
26:31
26 minutes, 31 seconds
have to be very careful because we don't want to cultize this thing. We don't want this UAP conversation to become a cult. Because by the way, there are a lot of people out there right now that
26:40
26 minutes, 40 seconds
definitely want to turn into a cult and they want to be the high priest or priestess and that's a problem and this is a we need to democratize this
26:48
26 minutes, 48 seconds
conversation. But how do we get getting back to the original issue?
26:52
26 minutes, 52 seconds
How do we offer support for people and even if we don't have the right answer, right? They may be asking a question that we don't know the answer to, but
27:00
27 minutes
how do we let them know it's going to be okay? And this is a natural progression of human evolution. We're always going to explore. This is just yet another corner that we're peeking around the
27:08
27 minutes, 8 seconds
corner. That's all. There's going to be a lot more corners after that. And we've peaked around a lot of corners already. That's how we got to where we are today.
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27 minutes, 15 seconds
So, um, you know, how do we do that? One of the ways that I'm doing it is with my colleagues creating a a a religious discussion. Uh, I am going to be going
27:24
27 minutes, 24 seconds
back to Italy. I am going to be talking to members of the Vatican. I'm going to be going to the Middle East very here, very shortly here in the next few months, talking to some people, some
27:32
27 minutes, 32 seconds
leadership over there. Uh, [clears throat] and then of course my my my my exploits here around the United States. I always have try to work in
27:40
27 minutes, 40 seconds
some time to have conversation with with some of the religious leaders. But it's not really up to me and I'm definitely not smart enough to have that conversation. And that's why I bring it
27:49
27 minutes, 49 seconds
up to you three to consider because I think ultimately this is is how we do it and this is we do it as as a group
27:57
27 minutes, 57 seconds
discussion. And Diane, I was just curious your thoughts because, you know, you you do a lot of good for a lot of people. I hear your name constantly. Uh,
28:06
28 minutes, 6 seconds
and there's a lot of people that look up to you for answers or in some cases, um, you know, uh, coping mechanisms. And so
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I just asked that question out loud. Now that we're at the point where we are, if tomorrow our government says, "Yep, guess what? It's all real. We've been lying to you and we got to we got to
28:23
28 minutes, 23 seconds
move forward with this conversation." What will the impact be? And I don't think we have I don't think we have the the luxury to just sit back and wait for
28:31
28 minutes, 31 seconds
it to happen. I think there's an expectation that we need to be thinking about that now.
28:36
28 minutes, 36 seconds
I can talk a bit about that if about say I mean the stunt silence is very reassuring. [laughter] Just going back to a lot of what you
28:45
28 minutes, 45 seconds
just said. You know there's a lot of things in the dynamic. There's a lot of moving pieces, a lot of things going on.
28:52
28 minutes, 52 seconds
Um, I kind of want to get back a little bit to elephant that's been in the room recently with with the whole drone
29:00
29 minutes
whatever it may be. What do you think is going on with this whole thing? I mean, everybody wants I mean, we have to ask you guys my personal Okay, so I do have a lot of friends who are in aerospace now, right?
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29 minutes, 12 seconds
And so I listen to them when they talk to me about, you know, drones and what's happening. Um because am I I'm an uneducated person with respect to that.
29:24
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So I don't know what's going on. Um and they don't either. That's the thing.
29:28
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They're like, "Well, we don't know exactly what's happening." Um some of them, most of them don't believe they're
29:35
29 minutes, 35 seconds
UAP. Okay. Um, so I generally defer to people like Lou and people like uh, you
29:44
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know, I'm not going to name names, but people who are in the field um, and have military experience and
29:52
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know about that because they would know what more so than me.
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What about you, Lee? What are your thoughts on that?
Chapter 8: Unpacking the Drone Mystery
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30 minutes, 1 second
Well, um I spent a good portion of my career in in drones, believe it or not, in my early days. I don't really talk about it, but uh back in the in the mid
30:10
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late 90s, um I was one of the case agents to protect um US sensitive technologies. And one of my portfolios
30:18
30 minutes, 18 seconds
was UAVs. UAVs means unmanned aerial vehicles. It's kind of before we had UAS, unmanned aerial systems. Uh, and
30:26
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back in the old days, um, you pretty much had a a a remotec controlled airplane is what it was. And if you wanted to carry a big payload, then you
30:34
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would take a Cessna 152 and turn that into a remote controlled airplane. But at the end of the day, it was it was a fixed wing capability. Um, I worked on
30:42
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some of the smaller platforms called the Pioneer, then later called the Hunter UAV, which was a twin engine uh pushpull, twin mozzi engines, large
30:50
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platform. It was platform that was u co-developed between Israel and the United States. Uh I worked a little bit on the precursor to the dark star. Now I
30:59
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don't mean dark star program that we everybody sees in Top Gun. I'm talking about the real dark star program which was an army UAV program uh early on a uh
31:07
31 minutes, 7 seconds
a low observable UAV. So I understand how UAVs work. And my my concern with the UAV flap, if you want to call it a
31:15
31 minutes, 15 seconds
flap, is this isn't the first time it's happened. Uh we saw this over it before in Colorado, Kansas and Arkansas back in
31:23
31 minutes, 23 seconds
2019 and 2020. Uh I was just Vinnie as you know I was over there in beautiful London visited you guys uh what less than a month ago and we were dealing
31:31
31 minutes, 31 seconds
with drone issues there over joint bases right. So so this is not new and it's not these are not aircraft that are all being legally flown because you don't
31:39
31 minutes, 39 seconds
shut down military bases when you're flying illegal drones. It just doesn't work that way. Um, so the government,
31:46
31 minutes, 46 seconds
this this current administration, um, I think they're checked out. I think, you know, again, politics aside, u not, not not choosing political sites here, just
31:55
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saying operationally speaking, they're checked out. They don't they don't care about drones. Uh, we also know that the National Security Council, the individuals that were there this last
32:03
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four years had no interest in pursuing the UAV, the I'm sorry, the UAP topic.
32:08
32 minutes, 8 seconds
So, drones um are have been a problem for a while. Um, and we've known about it for many years. In fact, over 20
32:15
32 minutes, 15 seconds
years ago, the FBI had an investigation, arrested two individuals who were going to uh place explosives on remote controlled airplanes and fly them into
32:23
32 minutes, 23 seconds
the White House. So, this is a threat that we've been dealing with for a long time and we continue to ignore it. Now, what is a drone, right? Because everybody says that's a drone. Well, if
32:32
32 minutes, 32 seconds
if you if it's a an unmanned aerial system, then sure, almost everything could be a drone, right?
32:38
32 minutes, 38 seconds
uh Chinese spy balloon technically could be a drone then. Uh but I think what people mean when they say drones, they're thinking quadcopters or they're thinking maybe some sort of military ISR
32:47
32 minutes, 47 seconds
or what we call intelligence surveillance or reconnaissance capability. So, uh there's really only two types. You have the private citizen
32:55
32 minutes, 55 seconds
quadcopter type thing that most people see with neighbors kids flying it around or maybe your local real estate agents flying a drone around to take pictures
33:02
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of a house that he or she is going to put on the market, right?
33:05
33 minutes, 5 seconds
uh you have a a longevity a loiter ability of maybe 15 minutes before the power runs out and you can't really fly them very far uh because you're limited
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in range maybe a mile or so and that's about it.
33:17
33 minutes, 17 seconds
But the drones that have been reported don't seem to be these types of drones.
33:20
33 minutes, 20 seconds
Um these are not hobbyists. These are not average citizens. Some of these have been described as being larger than an SUV. Some of them have been described as
33:28
33 minutes, 28 seconds
coming out of the water. Some of them have been described as being completely silent. And then yet some of them have been described of being actually having
33:35
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a counter uh UAV capability, meaning if a drone gets near it, a private person tries to fly a drone and get a picture
33:42
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of it, uh somehow the drones are disabled and uh and fall out of the sky and then the drone that you're chasing
33:49
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uh disappears quote unquote into thin air. So that is not a hobbyist drone.
33:54
33 minutes, 54 seconds
Now, does that mean it's a UAP? Not necessarily. It could be some sort of very sophisticated drone that's being flown by somebody. The question is who who has that technology and capability?
34:04
34 minutes, 4 seconds
Yeah. Why are they ignoring it?
34:06
34 minutes, 6 seconds
Let's let's take this pen for a sec second and let's just say this is a a super secret military drone that can fly longer than 15 minutes. Uh let's say it
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can fly 5 to 10 hours. Okay? And it can fly not just two or three miles, but maybe 50, 60, maybe 100 miles. Well, if
34:23
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that's the case, it's flying over the horizon. Um, so now you've got another problem because these drones are controlled by radio frequency and these
34:31
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are usually line of sight, meaning they can't go over the horizon. If you want to send a signal over the horizon, meaning the operator of this drone is sitting more than 11 miles away, you
34:40
34 minutes, 40 seconds
have to have a repeater capability, meaning you have to have an aircraft or a space system or a satellite that's retransmitting that signal back down to
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34 minutes, 48 seconds
to the opposite end where the curvature of the Earth is beyond that so you can still fly your plane. You also have to have a place to launch them. You have to
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have a place to recover them. You have to have a place to maintain them. You have to have a place to fuel them. You have to have a place talking huge infrastructure. This is not just some private group of citizens doing this.
35:05
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This would be a well orchestrated very wellplanned effort by either a state actor who has the resources to do it.
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35 minutes, 13 seconds
And there's only a few that have that resources. You're probably talking on the adversarial side, China, Russia, and maybe a couple others. Then you have the
35:21
35 minutes, 21 seconds
United States. the US could be doing these could be our technologies and for whatever reason either we're not coordinating it with ourselves. So you
35:29
35 minutes, 29 seconds
have some sort of dysfunction going on uh or ineptitude or it's so secret we don't want to tell anybody and the question is why is it so
35:38
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secret? Is it is it the technology or is it the purpose of why these things are flying? So then there's that. Then [clears throat] you have another
35:45
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argument on top of that that further complicates things. What if some people the reason why people are having a hard time talking about this drone issue is because we're talking about two
35:53
35 minutes, 53 seconds
different issues. You're talking about a UAP issue at first which is what people are reporting seeing and then you have a
36:01
36 minutes, 1 second
government response of drones to those UAPs to try to go and figure these out and then people are also reporting on the drones and that's why they hear the
36:09
36 minutes, 9 seconds
worrying sound and they see the blinky lights and all that. So it might be not as simple as is it drones or is it UAP.
36:17
36 minutes, 17 seconds
It might be both and it might be neither. So so we really have to look at this topic and the real issue here is not that we have answers. It's that the
36:26
36 minutes, 26 seconds
government isn't even trying to get answers and that for me is a problem.
36:30
36 minutes, 30 seconds
Just simply telling people these are all legitimate don't pay attention to them.
36:33
36 minutes, 33 seconds
People are smarter than that guys. You know when a drone is over your house and it's not supposed to be there that's not normal. I I'm sorry. And anybody who
36:42
36 minutes, 42 seconds
tries to to to do that, you know, probably try to sell you a bridge in a desert.
36:48
36 minutes, 48 seconds
And your normal camera isn't going to capture to what you see, you know, like our phones are not meant to capture these crazy things. And so, well, the phones are only
36:56
36 minutes, 56 seconds
onedimensional, right? And they're only looking at something in a very specific space and time for that moment under those circumstances. They're not telling you the full story. You really need
37:04
37 minutes, 4 seconds
radar data. You need you need a hyperspect. you need a whole lot of stuff looking at what's going on to figure this out. Uh and that's what
37:12
37 minutes, 12 seconds
we're lacking right now in our government. And rather than the government acknowledging it and saying, "You know what, guys? You're right. We got a problem. We got to fix it." They're saying, "Nah, nothing to pay
37:19
37 minutes, 19 seconds
attention here, folks. Just turn the other way and continue eating your your Big Mac and fries." Uh I I don't think that is an appropriate response. Um I
37:28
37 minutes, 28 seconds
don't by any government. Um whether it's conservative or liberal or anything in between, um that's that's not the right
37:35
37 minutes, 35 seconds
answer. We we have to figure what out what's going on.
37:40
37 minutes, 40 seconds
Yeah. And I think the lack of government information or official information is trying to people are creating their own theories and they're almost deciding for
37:49
37 minutes, 49 seconds
themselves what these things are and it it seems to be muddying the waters a lot as well and you know I think that seems to be an issue. I mean Diana what do you
37:58
37 minutes, 58 seconds
think? Why do people seem to kind of create these narratives for themselves? Is it just for comfort?
38:05
38 minutes, 5 seconds
Um, I think it's because they're they have anxiety and so I think Lou broke it down really really well. Um, I hadn't heard it broken down that way actually.
38:17
38 minutes, 17 seconds
Um, and you know, we're I guess this idea that, you know, we could be conflating, you know, instead of an
38:24
38 minutes, 24 seconds
eitheror, it's a and but kind of situation. Um, I hadn't heard that before. I think that's really
38:31
38 minutes, 31 seconds
interesting. Um, so why do people do that? Honestly, I think it's because I mean we're between administrations in
38:38
38 minutes, 38 seconds
this trans uh transitional zone. Uh, that's that causes anxiety. Uh, we just started a new year that causes anxiety.
38:46
38 minutes, 46 seconds
There's a lot of anxiety right now. Um, so it it makes sense that people are doing that and it also makes sense that a good many people are not caring about
38:55
38 minutes, 55 seconds
it, right? They're just they're eating their Big Mac and fries like Lee says.
39:00
39 minutes
Diana, can I ask you a question?
39:02
39 minutes, 2 seconds
as it relates to academia. What is so let's let's take the issue now we have as people. What is the greatest challenge if you were queen for a day
39:11
39 minutes, 11 seconds
and you could just poof wave your magic wand and and and and fix the issue. Why has it been such a tough conversation to have amongst academics the topic of UAP?
39:23
39 minutes, 23 seconds
What is the big challenge? And as as a non-academic, I find it fascinating because I know the challenges we have from a governmental perspective having a
39:31
39 minutes, 31 seconds
conversation from an intelligence and law enforcement perspective and and national security perspective. But I'd love to hear your take on what is the big challenge to academia.
39:43
39 minutes, 43 seconds
Yeah. Um the problem is first off blue book um pro the project blue book um
39:51
39 minutes, 51 seconds
really stigmatized UAP UFO scholarship and it did such a good job that
39:59
39 minutes, 59 seconds
academics are terrified. So academics are probably the most some of the most programmed people. I mean I am one and I
40:06
40 minutes, 6 seconds
know what goes into getting a PhD and you have to tow the line you know and if you go outside when I studied uh UFOs I
40:15
40 minutes, 15 seconds
was already a full professor I was chair of my department and I had won my college's research award like the the big research award I felt like I could
40:23
40 minutes, 23 seconds
do this and not and it would be okay and I was using a method that was a decent method for studying this I didn't say it
40:31
40 minutes, 31 seconds
existed or it didn't exist and So, but academics uh still will like I had this issue with
40:40
40 minutes, 40 seconds
publishing this uh this essay where I was citing physicists that are on the cutting edge of this topic and other
40:47
40 minutes, 47 seconds
academics were telling me that I couldn't use that person's work because that was you know that person is a stigmatized physicist and I was like
40:56
40 minutes, 56 seconds
well why is it our government is utilizing his work if he's so if his work is so bad the US government wouldn't be using it for the last 40
41:05
41 minutes, 5 seconds
years, right? And and really, you know, wanting to know what he thinks and now he's, you know, all of his the things are happening with him that are amazing.
41:12
41 minutes, 12 seconds
Um, so why is that, Lou? I mean, I think it's just the it's stagnation within academia, sadly. So if I was queen for a
41:20
41 minutes, 20 seconds
day, um I mean honestly what I would do would be I would try to help pro
41:27
41 minutes, 27 seconds
professors make courses fun for students because learning is actually a a human
41:34
41 minutes, 34 seconds
endeavor that's fun if you allow it to be. Um and that would really kickstart
41:41
41 minutes, 41 seconds
the the United States in terms of um you know right now kids don't even want to go to school. So, how do you do that's one that's wonderful. I love it. I love
41:49
41 minutes, 49 seconds
it. How How do you incentivize that? How do you make it how do you make it fun? I do talk at universities and I'm just curious how what are what what's your insights to that?
42:00
42 minutes
Yeah. I mean, it's almost ironic that here I am at a university as a professor because I um you know, I I graduated
42:09
42 minutes, 9 seconds
high school with a GED. I didn't even graduate high school. I went immediately into college when I was 16. I only took
42:16
42 minutes, 16 seconds
classes that I liked. And this is how I self-directed my education. Um, and I believe that that this is what we need
42:24
42 minutes, 24 seconds
more of is that, you know, kids have more agency. I won a grant to teach teachers how to teach. What I did was I
42:31
42 minutes, 31 seconds
said, "Bring them places. bring them to the the military base, you know, let them see the old uh weapons that we used
42:39
42 minutes, 39 seconds
in World War One, World War II, or I I live here where the Civil War ended, you know, let the kids go outside. Um so, so
42:48
42 minutes, 48 seconds
yeah, I mean that's what needs to happen. And I don't know why it got to the to where it's at now. But that's one
42:54
42 minutes, 54 seconds
of the the problems that we face right now is that uh school is pretty terrible. Even college,
43:02
43 minutes, 2 seconds
you know, we used to have when I was uh when I was in uh spy school and a bunch of the other schools, you know, military
43:09
43 minutes, 9 seconds
and before that, we used to have a term we used to call it cooperate and graduate, meaning don't rock the boat, just get through the course and, you
43:17
43 minutes, 17 seconds
know, get your or we call pay a fee and get a B, right? just just just do what you have to do and and don't piss off
43:24
43 minutes, 24 seconds
the professor. But, you know, I I I wonder if maybe that was bad advice. I'm wondering if maybe we should rock the boat. I'm wondering if if we should
43:33
43 minutes, 33 seconds
encourage students, not teach them necessarily what to learn, but teach them how to learn, right? And and let them formulate for themselves their own
43:41
43 minutes, 41 seconds
questions and let them defend those positions, right? Instead of just stying them and said, "Look, this is a lesson.
43:47
43 minutes, 47 seconds
You're going to read pages one through five today and I'm going to quiz you on it tomorrow. You know, how about say, "Look, um, you can read any part of that
43:55
43 minutes, 55 seconds
book you want and then you're going to tell me what you read." There's no quiz.
44:00
44 minutes
Just read any part of that book you you feel you want to read. Um, you know, and I I get you loud and clear, both uh both
44:09
44 minutes, 9 seconds
you, Catalina and um and Diana. I I think we need to encourage our institutions not to be uh you know the
44:19
44 minutes, 19 seconds
middle of the road and just do whichever the teacher's asking you to do just so you can go ahead and get that B. I think I think we need and I don't mean it
44:28
44 minutes, 28 seconds
disrespectfully but I think we need challenge in our in our academic institutions and we need the ability to
44:35
44 minutes, 35 seconds
reward and incentivize people who are willing to challenge the status quo. You know, I have a slide I give at a presentation and I have all
44:44
44 minutes, 44 seconds
these different people in history that were academics and I have everything from Confucious and I have these scientists up there like uh Madame Kuri
44:52
44 minutes, 52 seconds
and I have uh all these people that are separated by time and space and gender and religions and I ask what do these
44:59
44 minutes, 59 seconds
people have in common? And the answer is that they were all willing to challenge the status quo. They were rebels. They
45:08
45 minutes, 8 seconds
were heretical. They were the Galileo of the world that chose to buck the system
45:17
45 minutes, 17 seconds
in pursuit of truth and and to hell with the repercussions. Um I think we have
45:24
45 minutes, 24 seconds
strayed away from that and instead we we reward um drone behavior. And I don't mean not
45:31
45 minutes, 31 seconds
talking about you know drones in the sky. I'm talking about just uh like honeybee drones. You just do your job and and that's it. and don't ask any questions and you'll be fine and you
45:39
45 minutes, 39 seconds
know we'll we'll take care of you with a with a nice degree and a nice job. Both my daughters finished college and uh both of them with advanced degrees and
45:48
45 minutes, 48 seconds
uh you know I was dismayed by by some of the coursework they took because the instruction there did not allow them to really think. All they were doing was
45:56
45 minutes, 56 seconds
memorizing and regurgitating but but there wasn't any process actually occurring. And uh when I ask my daughters, why are you learning this?
46:07
46 minutes, 7 seconds
You know it's bad when they look at you and they shrug their shoulders and say, "Dad, I couldn't tell you." Right.
46:11
46 minutes, 11 seconds
That's a problem. That's that's tragic.
46:14
46 minutes, 14 seconds
Yeah. It's tra this is on our un some of our renowned universities, institutions.
46:19
46 minutes, 19 seconds
And this is not just an American problem.
46:22
46 minutes, 22 seconds
Hey, look, I can say personally myself, I can't even believe I'm saying this, but I went to I I graduated. It took me
46:30
46 minutes, 30 seconds
seven years to get the degree that I got. Okay. It's because there was three classes that I just could not understand
46:40
46 minutes, 40 seconds
why I had to take them because it did not make sense to me at the time. And so I struggled and I had to literally take these two classes three times.
46:53
46 minutes, 53 seconds
Wow.
46:54
46 minutes, 54 seconds
But I got my degree. I got it because I'm going to finish it, right? But you're right, we are not being challenged. You know what? And as a
47:02
47 minutes, 2 seconds
Catholic myself, we're not also being challenged. Like for example, like you, you know, Diana, you said angels, like it's hard to kind of comprehend that.
47:11
47 minutes, 11 seconds
Well, it's hard for me to comprehend the Eucharist and um transubstantiation and how that happens. And whenever I take
47:18
47 minutes, 18 seconds
the Eucharist, you know, that is hard for me to understand. And so um also like young people they're they're moving
47:25
47 minutes, 25 seconds
away from religion altogether because we and same goes with academia because we're not challenging we think that okay these kids like we we we can dumb it
47:33
47 minutes, 33 seconds
down for them because we they don't really get it like let's just give them something that's going to be like digestible and they're there.
47:42
47 minutes, 42 seconds
The same thing happened to church that happened to academia and learning. So it
47:49
47 minutes, 49 seconds
became so wrote and boring that you can't you you know you should want if there's a god let's just say okay if
47:57
47 minutes, 57 seconds
there's a god you you'd want to know about this god right you'd want to go to a place like church to learn about this god or whatnot and it's so boring to do
48:06
48 minutes, 6 seconds
that and the things defy you know intelligence and it makes people it's
48:13
48 minutes, 13 seconds
it's not fun and nobody's going to do it and so the churches are losing people and no, you know, and UAP comes along
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and it's like, wow, the the world is is an amazing place that at least has some type of um mystery to it. So, um yeah,
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no, I know that about it's it's a tragedy. So, I don't know the school thing. I don't think Lou that we can
48:37
48 minutes, 37 seconds
honestly I think it's going to implode on its own and rebuild itself. That's what I think is going to happen and and that needs to happen.
48:46
48 minutes, 46 seconds
Well, you know, it's the old Phoenix adage, right? Sometimes you got to you got to burn it down for it to be reborn into something better.
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Maybe one of the issues when it comes to learning about the UAP subject is that there's just so many unknowns.
48:59
48 minutes, 59 seconds
How can we teach something? We don't know the intent of what these things are. We don't even know where these things originate from, the origins, are they extraterrestrial, interdimensional?
49:07
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We're still having that debate. So, could that be the roadblock that's stopping us from really Certainly one of I would also say I think our our pride and ego. I think
49:15
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there's a lot of people there that want to be right and in wanting to be right um they're not willing to accept
49:23
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alternative hypothesis and they have their own understanding and idea of what this topic means to them and that is a
49:31
49 minutes, 31 seconds
universal truth for them. Now keeping in mind there's there's there's differences between a universal truth and a personal truth. Now for some a personal truth can be just as as real as a universal truth.
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So what do I mean? Well, you know, gravity is a universal truth, right? It affects us all at 9.8 m/s squared, whether you like it or not. And in my
49:49
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case, I definitely don't like it because I've been gaining weight. But, um, you know, then there's personal truths like, uh, religion or political affiliation
49:58
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where people are just as sure that those are truths, but they're not shared necessarily with other people, right?
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Those views. So, that's where it becomes a problem. And in the UFO topic, you have people that are so sure something is certain way, they're not willing to
50:14
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listen to anything else. And then they create these little silos, these little enclaves that then will if they feel
50:21
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threatened that their narrative is being threatened rather than listening and having dialogue, they attack, right? and they start you have this weird uh you
50:29
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know I always say that the greatest challenge to to to disclosure is the UFO community itself sometimes trying to
50:37
50 minutes, 37 seconds
control the narrative and trying to make a little name for themselves at the cost of somebody else and the infighting and
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the backbiting. That's why I don't get involved with it. You know, I know there's a lot of people out there in social media think that I do and I've got this weird cabal where I, you know,
50:52
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maniacally sit behind my keyboard and ghost write a bunch. So, I don't. It's a bunch of nonsense. These are people that for whatever reason, I guess, have nothing better to do and they think that
51:00
51 minutes
I have the time to actually sit there and make their lives miserable, which I don't. Um, sadly, I don't have that time. Uh, and if I did, I probably wouldn't do that anyways. But my point
51:08
51 minutes, 8 seconds
being is that we have a lot of a disparit, let's just say, uh, group of individuals and they're all in their own little camps. And rather than working
51:16
51 minutes, 16 seconds
together and coming together and building a much bigger bonfire, they're too busy protecting their own little fire. And they don't realize that that
51:23
51 minutes, 23 seconds
fire is susceptible to the wind and to the rain and and if you want to keep that flame alive, stop hoarding it.
51:31
51 minutes, 31 seconds
It's like more fog. It's like adding more and more and more and more and more fog like certain people are. I'm sorry.
51:37
51 minutes, 37 seconds
I'm just going to go ahead and put that out there. Like I've watched some horrible just episodes and I have
51:46
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literally like my jaw has dropped and I've been like is this really happening right now? Like are just for a view? And
51:55
51 minutes, 55 seconds
it's like adding more and more fog and more and more like you know just it's like
52:02
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it's the worst of humanity that will sit there and it's sad. And you take an important topic like this that means so
52:10
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much to everybody and you're going to pollute it and you're going to adulterate it because you know only you it only belongs to you the narrative.
52:18
52 minutes, 18 seconds
And I I and both of you have dealt with it. Oh.
52:22
52 minutes, 22 seconds
Oh, I think all of us have, not just both of us. I think you too and Vinnie and I mean, we all get crap.
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52 minutes, 28 seconds
Oh, no. People love me, Lou. Everybody, I'm just kidding.
52:31
52 minutes, 31 seconds
Well, I'm sure they love you, but that's unfortunately that is not my case. I do not enjoy that same privilege that you do. Let's Let's just put that out there.
52:40
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I've been told um what what was it? Um for disclosure, ladies. So, what is she going to do? Make a sandwich? And you
52:47
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know what? I make a great sandwich. So, thank you for the compliment. Maybe I will.
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You know, I had somebody that I respected very much tell me, "I have to stop thinking like an enlisted soldier and be the officer that I am." And I turned to him, I said, "Thank you for
52:59
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the most amazing compliment." I take that as a uh as an incredible honor.
53:04
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Yes, you're right. I do think as an enlisted person because that's where gets we get stuff done. No, I'm not going to sit back with my heels up on
53:11
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the on the chair and have everybody else do my work for me. I'm going to roll my sleeves up and whatever work needs to be done, I'm going to be the first one to get my get my sleeves rolled up and do
53:19
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the work. So, uh, you're right. It's, um, it it's appalling, but I think again going back to what we were doing originally here with this conversation,
53:27
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all four of us, this is where the magic happens because now all four of us can share our ideas. We're not insulting
53:34
53 minutes, 34 seconds
each other. We're not slandering each other. And I'm sure there's lots of stuff none of us none of us would agree with each other on, but that's okay.
53:44
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That's boring. That's so boring. If we all agree with each other, like I don't want to like that'd be just boring.
53:53
53 minutes, 53 seconds
Well, I want to put you both on the spot. You you put you put Diana and I on the spot. I want to now put Vinnie and and you Catalina on the spot for just a
54:01
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moment. And I'll start with with with you, Catalina. What do you think is the greatest obstacle right now for us as a
54:10
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species to have this conversation with ourselves?
54:14
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[sighs and gasps]
54:14
54 minutes, 14 seconds
to have this conversation. Greatest obstacle. I think there's a lot of different obstacles. Um, with ourselves as in when you say
54:24
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ourselves, do you mean like me personally or like ourselves?
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Species like like for you having the conversation with your neighbor or you having this conversation on a radio uh podcast like this or having the
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conversation at all? You I I don't want to overprescribe it. I want you to tell me what you think in your opinion is one
54:42
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of the greatest obstacles right now affecting us having a conversation bigger to make to make this conversation bigger.
54:52
54 minutes, 52 seconds
A few things. A lack of well media, right? mainstream media, lack of data,
54:59
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lack of understanding, lack of um, you know, being able to study things the way that
55:06
55 minutes, 6 seconds
should be studied because of I mean, let's go back to Jack Valet, let's go back to John Mack, you know, like
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there's a stigma surrounded about these things. It's a dogma. Um, also
55:23
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it's just, yeah, I mean I I don't think it's like a like a hidden secret in like
55:30
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a tomb of Egypt. Like I think we uh I think people have had experiences especially military that have come
55:38
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across these things like fraor um which we have probably a ton we have a ton of data on that and
55:47
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so I mean it's been here it's been there and so why are we uh why the hesitation
55:55
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you know and um like also like think about like hidden knowledge You know, that's why I love
56:02
56 minutes, 2 seconds
the internet and this technology because like Alexandria went, well, at least we now have the internet and the data is
56:10
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going to be there and hopefully we won't lose it. So maybe, just maybe, if we can all cooperate together from just like
56:19
56 minutes, 19 seconds
you, from your standpoint, from Diana's standpoint, and Gary who's not here, from his standpoint, all of you
56:28
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together, you know, that that's what needs to come. It needs to be a cohesive effort.
56:36
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Fair enough. Fair enough. How about you, Vinnie? What do you think?
56:40
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I think one of the main struggles is just everyday life. People are, you know, they've got so much going on in their lives that they're just not ready
56:48
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to to add anything extra to it. Every day is a struggle for a lot of people.
56:53
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You know, when are they going to pay the next bill? How are they going to do this or that? They've got, you know, everything's, you know, the world is not
57:00
57 minutes
becoming an easier place to live in as we as time goes by. It's getting harder and harder. And so to be able to just
57:06
57 minutes, 6 seconds
bring in a topic like UFOs and UAP must it's just so difficult. People don't want to acknowledge it. They just poo poo it like it's just pure fantasy and
57:15
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science fiction. And I think that that goes back again to some of the stigma that's just been so ingrained in this subject for so long that yes, we're
57:22
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starting to see it break down, but it's really difficult just everyday life.
57:27
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Let me ask you, if this topic had the ability to improve people's lives hypothetically,
57:35
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would that be the impetus then for people to say, "Okay, you know what?
57:38
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Yeah, I I I don't have the bandwidth to really consider this right now." But I guess if this is somehow going to make my life easier or better down the road
57:46
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or maybe my kids, then then yeah, it's probably worth having the conversation.
57:50
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Maybe because I I think you're right, Vinnie. I think, you know, we call it in the military mission creep where you start getting more and more added to your plate till eventually there's no
57:59
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bandwidth left. You know, if everything's a priority, then nothing's a priority and nothing gets done right or correctly. And so maybe if there's a
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way to explain people that look the the opportunities of this, think of think of the 1960s space race when for the brief
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10 years the United States was in competition with then Soviet Union to put a person in space and ultimately put somebody on the moon. You know, in that
58:24
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10 years over 6,200 industries, not products, lifechanging industries were developed as a result.
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And as a result of that, we have products like the LED light bulb, the CAT scan, things that have long outlived their initial intended design purpose
58:41
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and are continuing to enrich our species and our way of life. And so maybe we incentivize this conversation by saying,
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look, yeah, I know guys, it's a lot to consider and we don't know a whole lot yet, but we're getting there. But but look at this from the p perspective of
58:57
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your kids. Your kids will grow up in a world that maybe we won't have to burn fossil fuels. Maybe we won't even need nuclear energy. You know, maybe we won't
59:05
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need to live in a in a resource starved in a resource competitive environment like we do now. We have as a species
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since, you know, the beginning of time where we're, you know, always acquiring and accumulating because it's instinctual, right? Because like a squirrel knows with the nuts at the
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winter, you don't have enough nuts, you're going to starve, right? So, so maybe this technology is a bridge that
59:28
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allows our species to overcome some of that where then we don't have to worry about the daytoday ins and outs. Oh my god, I got to pay the cell phone bill.
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Oh, I got to pay my mortgage bill. Oh, I got to take the kid to PTA. Oh, he's got homework at 9:00 in the morning. What?
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You need a poster board now because you've got a school assignment first thing in gonna have to go to work.
59:47
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No, no, no, no. Of course, of course. My point being is that the the You're absolutely right, Catalina. You're absolutely I don't I don't mean to. I'm obviously being
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No, I know. I know. I'm just I'm just saying like because people say that like I'll have people that be like, "Wait, did you see the drone things?" Like, so why am I working?
1:00:04
1 hour, 4 seconds
Yeah. No, no, you're right. We have Absolutely. It shouldn't change our fundamentally who we are. But but it might change how we live, you know, and
1:00:12
1 hour, 12 seconds
and it could possibly do things indirectly for us as a species in the world, you know, collectively that could be very good.
1:00:21
1 hour, 21 seconds
We we could easily let people know that this subject can bring us together and it could really benefit humanity further down the line. But don't we also run the
1:00:29
1 hour, 29 seconds
risk of repeating history by weaponizing this type of thing?
1:00:33
1 hour, 33 seconds
A thousand%. And look how I'll be the first one to say it's hypocritical for me to say, "Oh, look how it can bring people together because all you got to do is look at social media and see how
1:00:41
1 hour, 41 seconds
we're ripping each other apart on it, right, on this topic." So, you know, I can sit here all high and mighty and say, "Wow, wouldn't this be great to bring us all together?" But in reality,
1:00:50
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you know, someone's going to turn on and say like, "Uh, Lou, have you actually seen the comments on your Twitter recently?" So, you're right. Uh but I,
1:00:58
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you know, I I kind of go with what what Lincoln said, you know, and that we need to listen to the better angels on our
1:01:05
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shoulders. Uh and I do think that uh you know, we we we we can't
1:01:14
1 hour, 1 minute, 14 seconds
we can't allow ourselves to fall to the least common denominator. eating.
1:01:21
1 hour, 1 minute, 21 seconds
However those people are behaving over there, we can't allow ourselves to do the same. We must take the high road and
1:01:29
1 hour, 1 minute, 29 seconds
we must live by by by living ourselves as an example of that, right? And and that's tough because why? We're human,
1:01:37
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you know, we're not we're not a Jesus Christ that's, you know, supposedly perfect and and and you know, can do all
1:01:45
1 hour, 1 minute, 45 seconds
this stuff. We're humans and, you know, we're petty and we need to eat and, you know, we need to pay our bills and
1:01:53
1 hour, 1 minute, 53 seconds
there's things that we have to do. So, you're right. It's a very good point, um, Vinnie, but I I am also a bit of a
1:02:00
1 hour, 2 minutes
dreamer. I do believe because I've seen it. Look how far we've come in seven years together. When we do the rare occasion we actually do work together,
1:02:08
1 hour, 2 minutes, 8 seconds
brother, it's beautiful. It's it's it's it's music. It's like an orchestra.
1:02:11
1 hour, 2 minutes, 11 seconds
Right now, you're walking into the back of band practice and some kids playing on the recorder and some other kids playing on the slide flute and some kids
1:02:19
1 hour, 2 minutes, 19 seconds
banging on the bongos and it's it's a horrible racket. But man, you got the right conductor in there and you got the right players and the right theater and
1:02:28
1 hour, 2 minutes, 28 seconds
man, all of a sudden you have Mozart, right? So, so that is what I strive for.
1:02:33
1 hour, 2 minutes, 33 seconds
I'm I'm I'm not, you know, I I I do believe we can play music together and I believe that uh we we do have that
1:02:42
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capacity if we can put our own prides and egos aside for just a little bit and stop trying to eat each other. Um you
1:02:50
1 hour, 2 minutes, 50 seconds
know, we stand a really good chance of actually figuring this this incredible mystery out. Look, if we don't figure it out, it's not the mystery's fault. It's
1:02:57
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our fault because we don't have our together. Excuse my language. You know, it's it's it's there. It's as obvious as it can be. It's It's no longer The issue
1:03:05
1 hour, 3 minutes, 5 seconds
is now with us. We are now have We are now have been given given this figure it out. And if we don't, well, then we got
1:03:13
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no one to blame but ourselves. It's not the UP's fault. Diana definitely comment on this.
1:03:18
1 hour, 3 minutes, 18 seconds
Yeah. So, I think that Lou is right. I think that I love the idea of, you know, listening to the better angels. Um so I
1:03:26
1 hour, 3 minutes, 26 seconds
think that right now we're at a really unprecedented point where the historical tradition in you know religions
1:03:35
1 hour, 3 minutes, 35 seconds
basically they were the their the functioning governments of our time up until the secular age which was
1:03:42
1 hour, 3 minutes, 42 seconds
modernity. Um it's now that we actually have the capability and the science to actually
1:03:49
1 hour, 3 minutes, 49 seconds
look at those events those contact events and figure them out. Um so here we're actually going to be
1:03:57
1 hour, 3 minutes, 57 seconds
uh this is where science and religion actually meet and I think this is fascinating. Um I was confused when the
1:04:06
1 hour, 4 minutes, 6 seconds
aerospace engineers reached out to me in 2012 and I thought why do they care about this? Well now I know and it's the most exciting thing ever. So this is
1:04:15
1 hour, 4 minutes, 15 seconds
what is ahead of us. I don't know what's going to happen Lou you know. Um, I'm I
1:04:22
1 hour, 4 minutes, 22 seconds
can't wait to to find out, you know, uh, what's coming. Okay. But I'm excited by
1:04:29
1 hour, 4 minutes, 29 seconds
the prospect that we can now take the types of technology that we're being um,
1:04:37
1 hour, 4 minutes, 37 seconds
gifted with, right, with um, you know, AI supercharging our brains really um, in order to figure these kinds of things
1:04:45
1 hour, 4 minutes, 45 seconds
out. They look to be higher order beings, some good, some maybe not so ha, you know, uh, not so good. Um, but
1:04:54
1 hour, 4 minutes, 54 seconds
they're there. Just like Lou says, they're there. Um, it's now up to us.
1:04:58
1 hour, 4 minutes, 58 seconds
And I think it's actually pretty exciting.
1:05:00
1 hour, 5 minutes
Yeah, I'd agree with that. And that just makes me think about with everything that's going on and it's moving quite fast. Something that does seem to unfortunately take a bit of a backseat
1:05:09
1 hour, 5 minutes, 9 seconds
is the experiencer. Uh, so where do they fit into the current narrative, the way things are going? And Diana, please. You
Chapter 9: The Role of the Experiencer
1:05:16
1 hour, 5 minutes, 16 seconds
know, you've written on that quite extensively.
1:05:19
1 hour, 5 minutes, 19 seconds
Well, I think first off, I think people have to be careful because there are more experiencers than than report
1:05:26
1 hour, 5 minutes, 26 seconds
because most like many don't want to report. uh the work of John Mack showed that people who are experiencers um are
1:05:34
1 hour, 5 minutes, 34 seconds
completely normal except for having this experience because remember people used to think they're delusional and there's the idea that they're having you know
1:05:42
1 hour, 5 minutes, 42 seconds
delusional uh things happening to them but Jeffrey Kriple did I the stats and I'm probably going to get it wrong but
1:05:50
1 hour, 5 minutes, 50 seconds
about 10% of the population is in many ways these are experiencers people are having these anomalous experiences um
1:05:58
1 hour, 5 minutes, 58 seconds
the it's they shouldn't become uh they shouldn't think of themselves as special. I think that what happens is
1:06:06
1 hour, 6 minutes, 6 seconds
that consciousness is an access point but it's not it we all have that capability. Okay. And some of us just
1:06:13
1 hour, 6 minutes, 13 seconds
shut it out with caffeine or you know nicotine or whatnot right alcohol whatnot. Um too much exercise you know there's a lot of ways to shut it down because we don't want that experience.
1:06:24
1 hour, 6 minutes, 24 seconds
Um but the thing is is that what I found I like the work of John Keel because he he's an experiencer. So if you read his
1:06:31
1 hour, 6 minutes, 31 seconds
book, especially the eighth tower, you'll see and this is what this is borne out in religions too. If you look at the history of these contact events,
1:06:39
1 hour, 6 minutes, 39 seconds
um a lot of the information given um sometimes is just not correct. So we, you know, so people have to not if they're having these experiences, a lot
1:06:47
1 hour, 6 minutes, 47 seconds
of times they attribute extraordinary accuracy to it. You know, this being told me that I needed to do this and that this would be a new gamechanging
1:06:56
1 hour, 6 minutes, 56 seconds
technology. I get these emails every day now, by the way. and you know it well wait a minute that being you know that
1:07:03
1 hour, 7 minutes, 3 seconds
bean is most likely not not right or how do you know that this is correct or a lot of times it turns out to be just not
1:07:11
1 hour, 7 minutes, 11 seconds
correct so for everyone that does and there have been people who said I I was given this information in a dream by this luminous being and now they're you
1:07:20
1 hour, 7 minutes, 20 seconds
know they've created this amazing technology for every one person that does do that there are probably like 50 other people that have had the same
1:07:28
1 hour, 7 minutes, 28 seconds
experience but nothing comes of it. So I believe that this is a normal experience. You see it in every
1:07:35
1 hour, 7 minutes, 35 seconds
historical every culture. A lot of cultures, you know, utilize religion in order to help people through these
1:07:42
1 hour, 7 minutes, 42 seconds
experiences. That's what religion used to be about was helping people deal with mystery and the unexplained and that type of thing. Uh religion is shifted
1:07:52
1 hour, 7 minutes, 52 seconds
now. It's it's something much more um like school, right? So it it religion even lost its connection to these
1:07:59
1 hour, 7 minutes, 59 seconds
events. But I would submit that back in the day, religion was actually the way that people dealt with these events. It provided uh ways to deal, you know, it
1:08:08
1 hour, 8 minutes, 8 seconds
provided people who were knowledgeable about these events. If you go to indigenous Australia, uh those communities, they have people that know
1:08:16
1 hour, 8 minutes, 16 seconds
about these events and yeah, they're they're like, "No big deal." You know, we could deal with that. Um you know, so so that's what I that's what I would say.
1:08:26
1 hour, 8 minutes, 26 seconds
to answer that question.
1:08:27
1 hour, 8 minutes, 27 seconds
You know, Vinnie, there was a time where the American Psychological Association had deemed a uh anyone who uh
1:08:36
1 hour, 8 minutes, 36 seconds
entertained the notion of UAP, it was considered a severe form of devian.
1:08:42
1 hour, 8 minutes, 42 seconds
And so these types of labels were very very effective uh in helping stifle
1:08:49
1 hour, 8 minutes, 49 seconds
anybody who wanted to come forward who who you know thought themselves as a quote unquote experiencer from having the conversation because they were
1:08:56
1 hour, 8 minutes, 56 seconds
afraid of being ridiculed. They were afraid of being labeled, right? And and it was it was nonetheless our our our own uh medical practitioners that were
1:09:06
1 hour, 9 minutes, 6 seconds
in some cases recommending people to be on anti-csychotics and medication and in some cases institutionalization
1:09:15
1 hour, 9 minutes, 15 seconds
simply because of their experience that they believe they were having uh with with something else. And it's funny
1:09:22
1 hour, 9 minutes, 22 seconds
because when you look at that experience from a religious perspective, it's far more acceptable, right? uh whether you're calling it a demonic possession
1:09:31
1 hour, 9 minutes, 31 seconds
or an exorcism or you know the practice the the the very act of religion itself is supernatural. You are praying to
1:09:38
1 hour, 9 minutes, 38 seconds
something you can't see, touch, taste or smell and you have a belief and a connection to this this this deity
1:09:46
1 hour, 9 minutes, 46 seconds
u and yet there's no empirical proof for it other than what your beliefs are. And yet when someone has an experience
1:09:55
1 hour, 9 minutes, 55 seconds
regarding UAP, it's met complete opposite. It's it's met with almost a disdain where it's back in the Middle
1:10:04
1 hour, 10 minutes, 4 seconds
Ages where they would potentially tar and feather you, right, for saying something that was was heretical. And we
1:10:10
1 hour, 10 minutes, 10 seconds
did that to ourselves. We created that stigma that wasn't created uh by by the
1:10:19
1 hour, 10 minutes, 19 seconds
UAP. It was created by us. And we have only ourselves to blame for that. And it's reprehensible the way that we treat
1:10:26
1 hour, 10 minutes, 26 seconds
people. Uh whether they had an experience or not, if they believe they have an experience, we we need to I
1:10:34
1 hour, 10 minutes, 34 seconds
believe have an ability to to take that data and that information because the one thing I've noticed um you know
1:10:42
1 hour, 10 minutes, 42 seconds
there's a lot of things that happened to people even when I was in the military and and over in combat uh and uh and
1:10:49
1 hour, 10 minutes, 49 seconds
working overseas. a lot of things that people would report in in in the field, combat field, that seem just there's no
1:10:57
1 hour, 10 minutes, 57 seconds
way in hell this could have happened or someone on a Navy ship, you know, reporting a a big tentacle of a squid like a kraken. And of course, people
1:11:05
1 hour, 11 minutes, 5 seconds
laugh until we realize there are things called giant squid in the Pacific, right? And they're real. Uh and and
1:11:12
1 hour, 11 minutes, 12 seconds
they're not lore. You know, we talk about things like mermaids and until people realize there's something called a manatee and kind of looks a lot like a
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mermaid, doesn't it? Was was the sailor really that crazy, you know, talking about monsters in in the ocean. Well, we
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have things called great white sharks and blue whales. And if you've never seen one before, I don't know about you, I'm an avid scuba diver, and even when I scuba dive and I see a big bull shark,
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that's a monster. I mean, you can call it a bull shark all you want, but I'm I'm swimming the other direction. Um,
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and it's uh it's it's it's something that we continue to do as a species over
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and over again. We never learn our lesson, do we? We keep stigmatizing people with quote unquote extraordinary
1:11:59
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claims when in reality they're not really so extraordinary. After all, they're there seems to be based in some sort of of of trend and other people are experiencing it as well.
1:12:09
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Yeah. I mean, I guess just like final thoughts for me really. Um, going back
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kind of tying it back to the beginning of our conversation when you both mentioned something about, you know, there's going to be more information information coming out. How and it's the
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best way for, you know, other people who like how what would you say is the best way for other people to either perceive
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it or to prepare for it or not even prepare, but I I want to make sure I'm using the right word, but you know what I mean.
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You'll have to ask Diana that because she's far more more expertise at being able to give you an answer. I can just tell you that it's going to be white hot and it's going to be all over the media.
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how people are going to take it. That's that's out of my wheelhouse. I think Diana would be far better qualified to answer that question than me because I I
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wouldn't even know. I I know it's coming and I know that people are going to find out and they're going to know about it because it's going to be very very public. But with that said, uh I Diana,
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that's a great question. How do people prepare for I mean, is it that big? Is it going to be like a like Well, I don't want to cause anxiety. I mean, it's not there's going to be a run
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on Wall Street or anything, but you know, it's look, it's it's it's major.
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Yeah, it's it's going to be, you know, for the uninitiated, it's going to be a holy cow moment. Uh, for those who have
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been in this topic for a while, it's going to be fascinating and interesting, but they're probably not going to be surprised. Uh, but, you know, the other
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99.9% of the population, that's a different story. And that's why I think, you know, Diana here probably has a hell of a lot better insight to that than recommendations than I do.
1:13:48
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Well, um I'm not okay. So, not knowing what's going to happen, it's good. It's it's hard for me to answer the question, but I I have had conversations with
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people who want to ask me about how will people deal with some type of event like that should it happen. And you know
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especially they asked me about how will people who are religious deal with it and I've talked first I've been in
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religious you know communities of religious people my whole life um and of uh studied all different kinds of religious like religious studies has
1:14:22
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been my life um and I would say that for very orthodox people from different faiths be it Buddhism, Hinduism um
1:14:30
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Judaism, Islam, Christianity I would say that for they're going to be all right because they already have a framework. And I'm
1:14:38
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talking about people who actually are when I say orthodox, I'm talking about people who believe in the angels and believe in those things and believe in
1:14:46
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the beings that are not human non-human intelligence. basically for the people who just go to church uh for this for
1:14:55
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kind of the because it's a habit um they're going to have an issue like they're going to have the issue that I had really when as an academic I started
1:15:04
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to study this and I was all of a sudden surrounded by scientists who studied it as real and showed me evidence and I saw
1:15:12
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their lives and how they lived and um that's shocking. They'll be shocked, but it's not a shock they can't get over.
1:15:21
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And that's when people are gonna be asking you like, you know, what do we do now? And it sounds like you're already developing the teams to deal with it.
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Well, we are, but we have to make sure we can't be prescriptive, right? It can't be, and this is what I keep telling people why they ask me, "Well, Lou, how should we take you?" Because I
1:15:37
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do get asked that a lot. And I tell people, it's not for me to decide that for you. That's a very personal, very sa don't be so quick to give up your the
1:15:45
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your your your sacred right to think for yourselves. I don't want to think for you and you don't want me to think for you. Um, you know, I can tell you what I
1:15:54
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know and then much beyond that it's up to you. Uh, I think it's dangerous. This is why I I've said before, you know,
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there's parts of this conversation that are certainly national security oriented, right? So if I want to know about these things uh over a nuclear
1:16:10
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military base then yeah I might get the advice from a three star general and say hey you know Bob what do you think about this but from you know this topic is
1:16:17
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much bigger and I've said before this is a topic that involves each and every one of us differently and yet equally depending on whether you were raised and where you're from and culturally and
1:16:25
1 hour, 16 minutes, 25 seconds
geographically and whatnot and socioeconomically perhaps. Um, so this is a conversation that affects everybody from a psychological perspective, a
1:16:34
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sociological perspective, a philosophical perspective, a theological perspective. And in those cases, I don't want a three or four star general
1:16:41
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telling me what to think. Stick to national security. I want to hear from other people. I want to hear from my from my spiritual and religious leaders.
1:16:48
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I want to hear from my neighbors. I want to hear from my kids. You know, I want to hear from the academics and the scientists. and then let me formulate my own opinion on on what this means to me
1:16:57
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and how it's going to affect my life if at all. Right? So that is that I I I want to enable people. I don't want to I don't want to prescribe anything. Right?
1:17:07
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I don't want to be one of those guys that says here take two of these and call me in the morning. That's that's not it. Uh because I guarantee you
1:17:16
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there's a lot smarter people out there than me that probably have a much better idea and understanding of what to do.
1:17:22
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And I'm not going to pretend that I'm one of those guys. I'm not. You know, I would defer to people like Diana to answer that question more than me. She's
1:17:30
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a hell of a lot more qualified to answer that than me, you know. And do you really at the end of the day, do you want a guy like me? I mean, you're not going to offend me, but do you really
1:17:38
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want a guy with a military and intelligence background prescribing to you or your family how you should
1:17:46
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morally or mentally or intellectually take this information? No. I don't I don't think so. I wouldn't want someone
1:17:53
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telling me that. So, I get it, you know, and this is why I'm always very very careful. And this is why these again going back to these types of forums,
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this is where you're going to solve those problems. You're not going to get it solved only inside the government with a government think tank. Half the time they're wrong anyways. So, you
1:18:10
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know, I'm not comfortable with that. I'm I'm comfortable with this conversation being taken to the streets, which is exactly what has happened. And it has
1:18:18
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been democratized. Nobody is more important and nobody is less important in this conversation. All voices count.
1:18:26
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Even the ones that don't want to have the conversation, their voices still count. Even the people that hate me on on on social media and and you know,
1:18:35
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accuse me of all sorts of horrible stuff. Yes, their voice counts and it should. You know, arguably, of course, you ask them my voice doesn't count, but
1:18:44
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I think all voices count and I think they should count. I think it's important that we get everybody's opinion, get everybody at the dinner table. Let's break bread over this and have a conversation.
1:18:55
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Well said. I like that.
1:18:57
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Yeah, please. If there anything to add to that, Dan, I think that's amazing. I mean, you know, as we kind of close out this conversation, if there's anything any messages, anyone any any closing
1:19:06
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thoughts from any of you guys, I'd love to love to hear them.
1:19:10
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I will with Diana and this is an honor and privilege for me to be here not only with you guys Vinnie and Katarolina but but Diana you know she has paved the
1:19:17
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way. She has put her career at risk, her reputation at risk for for championing and following this this topic courageously and has done tremendous
1:19:26
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work. Like I said before she ever wrote American Cosmic I was hearing her name floated around anyways. I never knew who she was but people were like hey you know we should we should you should
1:19:34
1 hour, 19 minutes, 34 seconds
listen to some of the thoughts uh of this individual. Um, and uh, sad to say I never had that opportunity before, but
1:19:43
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I just wanted to say thank you, Diana, for everything you're doing. You're you're doing really one incredible job and and a service for our for our our
1:19:51
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our little species. So, thank you very much. And then to you, Vinnie and Katarina, you know, thank you for taking this conversation to the streets. This
1:19:59
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is where it belongs. I don't want it in the ivory palace and and only being discussed by the top elites, right? and
1:20:06
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and and deciding how we should we should think about it. I think the the more we keep this conversation look it's it's like sunlight right sometimes is the
1:20:13
1 hour, 20 minutes, 13 seconds
best uh you know uh antibiotic uh is is some sunlight um you know antiseptic so let's let's
1:20:22
1 hour, 20 minutes, 22 seconds
keep this conversation in the light that would be my would be my parting thoughts I agree wholeheartedly and I also want to thank you to all for being here and
1:20:30
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Lou especially thank you um you've been doing this I mean like I said you were part of the invisles until you weren't
1:20:38
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and then when you weren't, you know, you and I took a lot of of heat for being
1:20:45
1 hour, 20 minutes, 45 seconds
public. And um and I always felt uh a sense that, you know, in that sense, I
1:20:52
1 hour, 20 minutes, 52 seconds
really respect that because, you know, it wasn't easy, was it? [laughter] But but you know, and we're doing it and
1:21:00
1 hour, 21 minutes
um and so I respect that. So, and I'm really pleased to have finally talked to you and we'll see each other. We keep missing each other at conferences.
1:21:09
1 hour, 21 minutes, 9 seconds
I know. I love this.
1:21:12
1 hour, 21 minutes, 12 seconds
And hopefully uh you will be there too, Vinnie. Carolina.
1:21:16
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Carolina, please. Any closing thoughts from you?
1:21:19
1 hour, 21 minutes, 19 seconds
I just want to say this. Um, it gives me a I don't know like a really good
1:21:24
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feeling and I like this is why I love doing this is because you know it's a
1:21:33
1 hour, 21 minutes, 33 seconds
conversation that never existed before and now we can actually um you know like
1:21:40
1 hour, 21 minutes, 40 seconds
it means something and a lot of people are going to get a lot from it. Um, I mean, especially, you know, both of you
1:21:49
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at the start of 2025 and I think people are really going to benefit from this and this is a message that we need to go
1:21:56
1 hour, 21 minutes, 56 seconds
into the the new year. So, again, so cool to do this with you and um, you know how much I support both of you. So,
1:22:04
1 hour, 22 minutes, 4 seconds
Catalina, let me leave you with this real quick because it bothers me that someone said something about you making a sandwich. remind them about Jon of
1:22:12
1 hour, 22 minutes, 12 seconds
Varc and remind them about uh Queen uh Elizabeth uh and and other great uh female leaders
1:22:22
1 hour, 22 minutes, 22 seconds
that have revolutionized and changed the face of this planet beyond any capability that any man could possibly ever do. So u whoever told you that
1:22:31
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about a sandwich you know um I make a good sandwich too but please know that is not that is that is not view is not
1:22:39
1 hour, 22 minutes, 39 seconds
shared by the vast majority okay so I just want to apologize whoever said that to you I want to apologize on their behalf even though they probably don't
1:22:47
1 hour, 22 minutes, 47 seconds
deserve it um I am terribly sorry I have two wonderful daughters a house full full of girls until recently even the dog was a girl uh and uh I've I've I've
1:22:56
1 hour, 22 minutes, 56 seconds
never regretted it um I've always considered considered uh women the greatest creation of God and uh and far
1:23:03
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superior far superior to to us silly knuckle dragging men. So uh I mean it sincerely and I'm sorry that somebody ever would say that to you.
1:23:12
1 hour, 23 minutes, 12 seconds
Hey, it's part of uh being a it's part of life, right? Like being a woman, it's not like it's all right, you know? You like you said like you just kind of have
1:23:20
1 hour, 23 minutes, 20 seconds
to Yeah. Well, it's it's still sadly like I said, I've had to hear it from my daughters several times, too. And every
1:23:28
1 hour, 23 minutes, 28 seconds
time I hear it, I keep hoping that we're going to evolve one day beyond that.
1:23:31
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But, you know, uh sometimes men just suck. I'm sorry.
1:23:37
1 hour, 23 minutes, 37 seconds
No, I I uh yeah, I mirror those sentiments. Absolutely, Lou. But I just want to finish off by saying thank you to the three of you. I think these
1:23:44
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conversations are wonderful. You know, it's it's easy for me to do a one-on-one interview where it's question, answer, question, answer, but sometimes I feel
1:23:52
1 hour, 23 minutes, 52 seconds
that these kind of more roundt discussions, which we had one recently in London as well, Lou, they just kind of give you that little bit extra as well. So, I want to thank you, Lou,
1:24:00
1 hour, 24 minutes
Diana, absolute pleasure as always. And Carolina, thank you for being such a wonderful co-host. And of course, everyone that has been watching uh this,
1:24:08
1 hour, 24 minutes, 8 seconds
whether you take something away from it or not, please just continue to have the conversation. Let's keep that stigma reducing and hopefully with what may be
1:24:17
1 hour, 24 minutes, 17 seconds
coming in the next couple of weeks, we have a great start to this wonderful 2025. But I just want to say thank you to everybody.
1:24:24
1 hour, 24 minutes, 24 seconds
Take care everybody and God bless. Thank you so much.