0:5252 secondsAll right. Welcome back to Disclosure Team everybody. I am really excited to have my guests with me today, Adam and
1:001 minuteEstabban. We're here to talk about the new documentary which was released today, The Cotay Photo. Guys, welcome to the show.
1:091 minute, 9 secondsThank you for having us, Vinnie. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Vinnie. An absolute pleasure.
1:141 minute, 14 secondsCan't wait to jump into this discussion about the documentary. I was lucky enough to see a preview screener.
1:201 minute, 20 secondsAbsolutely incredible documentary. I do have an affinity to that photograph which we'll get into. Um, but I think first of all for everyone it probably
1:281 minute, 28 secondsbest if we just play the trailer. So, I'm going to get that on now and then we'll jump into it.
1:361 minute, 36 secondsThis was first called the [music] drop because it looked like a little drop of rain, but then when they started looking
1:451 minute, 45 secondsit and looking it, they saw clearly a metallic disc shape. It's cool just to have a piece of aerial film in general
1:521 minute, 52 secondsand then the story behind it is even more exciting.
1:561 minute, 56 secondsI think this photo is one of the very most important. The Costa Rican government's mapping agency captured that photograph. It's never been [music]
2:032 minutes, 3 secondsproven to be anything other than something anomalous.
2:132 minutes, 13 secondsAmazing.
2:242 minutes, 24 secondsAmazing. I just Yeah. brings it all back after watching it. So good. I urge everyone to go and check it out. But before we do talk about the documentary,
2:322 minutes, 32 secondsI think it's important to, you know, give people an understanding about the the what's at the heart of the story, this photograph. So Esban, could you
2:412 minutes, 41 secondstake us back to September 4th, 1971 and and tell us what happened?
2:462 minutes, 46 secondsAbsolutely. My pleasure. Well, on September 4, 1971, exactly 55 years ago,
2:542 minutes, 54 secondsthe uh National Geography Institute of Costa Rica, I need to be very clear on this because I have seen some
3:023 minutes, 2 secondstranslations as if it was National Geographic. is the geography department of Costa Rica was doing a mapping
3:093 minutes, 9 secondsmission of the Adrenal area um in the northern area of Costa Rica. So there was this um Aero Commander airplane with
3:193 minutes, 19 secondsthree ctographers on board including um Donerio Loisa and the plane had a camera
3:273 minutes, 27 secondsattached to the to to the plane basically to the hood. So every 13 seconds the camera took an automatic
3:353 minutes, 35 secondspicture. There was no human manipulated trigger. It was an automatic shot every 13 seconds. So when they were flying uh
3:443 minutes, 44 secondsabove um Lake Cot around 10,000 ft, they started shooting pictures and then basically they completed the mission.
3:543 minutes, 54 secondsNothing was abnormal. They flew back to the airport and they went with their day-to-day jobs. A few years later, when
4:034 minutes, 3 secondsgovernment was checking if the Cot area could be used for the flooding of Lake Arinal, a big uh electric project in
4:104 minutes, 10 secondsCosta Rica, they asked the ctographers to review again those mapping photos.
4:164 minutes, 16 secondsAnd when that's when they saw that picture 299 had nothing. Picture 3001 had nothing. But picture 3000 showed
4:254 minutes, 25 secondsthis little tiny thing. And that's what we're going to see now that the picture is so big that it just showed a little
4:324 minutes, 32 secondstiny thing. And Donerio says that his colleague told him, "Well, what is that thing?" And Serio says, "Well, it looks like a flying saucer."
4:414 minutes, 41 secondsThey were basically ordered to basically keep it secret and it kept secret for a few years afterwards. But this was a
4:494 minutes, 49 secondsphoto that was taken absolutely by accident. It was an automatic camera and it was discovered a few years later
4:584 minutes, 58 secondsafter the mapping mission. That's part of the remarkable uh situation here. Excellent. Great. Such a great story.
5:065 minutes, 6 secondsSo, Adam, you know, when did you first encounter the Cotay photo and and and what was your immediate reaction and then what made you think that there might be a documentary here?
5:165 minutes, 16 secondsI really have to give the credit to my wife, Megan Woomer, who is the executive producer and uh creative director on the film. She went and visited Kelly, who we
5:265 minutes, 26 secondsalso do a segment and interview with uh for the film. And when she was visiting Kelly on a on a vacation, Kelly was
5:345 minutes, 34 secondstelling her about her own experience with seeing a disc in the sky over uh the Arnold volcano. And she also had a
5:445 minutes, 44 secondsKelly had a a a print of this photo hanging on her wall. And you know, my wife came back and she was like, "This
5:525 minutes, 52 secondsis such an amazing story. We have to check it out. We have to make a documentary about it." So, she really was kind of the catalyst for finding the
6:006 minutesphoto and then um deciding to make a documentary about it. I've worked in film uh my entire adult life, but I
6:086 minutes, 8 secondsmake, you know, car commercials for a living, right? So, [laughter] uh and and so this was kind of a departure from my day-to-day life. Um,
6:176 minutes, 17 secondsbut she was so excited about it and she came home and then I saw it and I couldn't couldn't really um
6:256 minutes, 25 secondsfind it to be anything else other than a physical object on the film and I was like, "Wow, this is intriguing." And uh, yeah, a couple phone calls later and we
6:346 minutes, 34 secondsfound Estabbon and Estabbon led us to Sergio and next thing you know, we're in we're in Costa Rica filming. It was an amazing amazing experience.
6:446 minutes, 44 secondsIncredible. That sounds incredible. For sure. For sure. So, Esban, you know, your own connection to the photograph goes back to the '9s when your late
6:516 minutes, 51 secondsuncle Herman Copper uh showed you an enlarged copy. Take us back and and what your your feelings were when you first saw that that enlarged copy.
7:017 minutes, 1 secondThat was for me the wow moment, the moment in life that I said, "This is
7:087 minutes, 8 secondsrelevant and I want to know more about this." I was a little kid. I remember that my uncle, he lived in Florida, so
7:167 minutes, 16 secondshe came to Costa Rica every now and then. I mostly remember that I was very excited as a kid because he always brought sneakers and all those um
7:247 minutes, 24 secondschocolate that you couldn't get in Costa Rica at that time. [laughter] But I recall that my other uncles asked him, "Did you brought the UFO photo on
7:337 minutes, 33 secondsone of his trips?" And he said, "Well, no, next one I'll I'll remember." So I was intrigued and I and and next time he
7:407 minutes, 40 secondswas coming I I asked my mother please give a call to Uncle Herman and asked him to bring the UFO photo. So he
7:477 minutes, 47 secondsbrought it and not only did he had like the photo that we all know, he had like an enlarged print that looked like a
7:557 minutes, 55 secondsposter and he showed it to me and I was immediately amazed. I was like wow.
8:028 minutes, 2 secondsSo that was early early 90s maybe late 80s and that was for me a definitive
8:108 minutes, 10 secondschanging moment. My uncle um he was such an amazing person but also extremely
8:188 minutes, 18 secondssmart. He was so um amazed as well that by the photo that because he couldn't have at that time an enlarger or
8:288 minutes, 28 secondssomething like that that he he could use. No no no scanners of course. So he made a device like he attached a
8:358 minutes, 35 secondsmicroscope to his camera or a camera to his microscope, put the film be beneath it and then he snap pictures.
8:438 minutes, 43 secondsOkay, would be able to get an enlarged copy of the negative. I actually have this pictures here. I'm going to show them to
8:508 minutes, 50 secondsyou in a second. But he wanted to get a bigger look. So, part of me doing
8:578 minutes, 57 secondsinitially and and I know we're going to dive into that with the drum scan and everything. Part of me doing everything on this photo is kind of trying to
9:079 minutes, 7 secondsfollow the footsteps of my uncle and try to honor his legacy as well.
9:129 minutes, 12 secondsAbsolutely. And Adam, you know, there's obviously this story is a lot more than just the photographs. So, how did that feel knowing that you've got so much to work with here?
9:219 minutes, 21 secondsYou know, when we first set out to make the film, we didn't really know what it was going to be. We didn't have an agenda or
9:309 minutes, 30 secondsum a narrative that we were trying to force on anybody. We really just kind of wanted to see where it took us. And it it kind of felt like there was an energy
9:389 minutes, 38 secondspulling us towards it, right? It sort of unveiled itself to us as we went and everything really kind of just fell into
9:459 minutes, 45 secondsplace uh naturally. and you know all these little synchronicities
9:529 minutes, 52 secondsuh kind of showed us the way. And so um you know it's when you're making a
9:599 minutes, 59 secondsdocumentary the idea of anchoring everything on one singular image taken in 1971
10:0710 minutes, 7 secondsyou know it's like will there be enough there to to keep an audience captive for
10:1310 minutes, 13 secondsyou know an hour and some change. So, um, and it turned out, yeah, the answer is absolutely. There's so much to this
10:2310 minutes, 23 secondsphotograph, uh, and there's so much history around it, and there's so many people's lives that it's touched in ways
10:3110 minutes, 31 secondsthat are, uh, remarkable and, and it really, really turned out pretty awesome. So, we never really felt there
10:3910 minutes, 39 secondswas a a shortage of anything to talk about with this photo. You know, it's like we could have kept shooting and kept going and kept finding more
10:4710 minutes, 47 secondsstories, but uh we got right to the core of the good stuff. You know, we found Estabbon, we found Sergio, we found Emmy
10:5310 minutes, 53 secondsand Kelly, and it really took on a life of its own, and it it told us what it wanted to be versus the other way around.
11:0111 minutes, 1 secondI think, Adam, that that we could even made an entire documentary just on the technical expertise of Michael
11:0811 minutes, 8 secondsStrickland. I mean, that guy is amazing and his studio and what he did. I know we're going to jump later into that, but there were so many parts about this film
11:1711 minutes, 17 secondsthat that are are amazing, a good story to tell. And this is what I wanted guys to show you. This look at this Kodak
11:2611 minutes, 26 secondsenvelope from back in the day. Like a really, really old envelope. And you will see here just these are the
11:3411 minutes, 34 secondspictures that my uncle took with his camera attached to a microscope. He was
11:4111 minutes, 41 secondsjust trying to get something better to try to understand it better. So it's it's quite a story and that's why I wanted to continue on his footsteps.
11:5211 minutes, 52 secondsAbsolutely. That's so special just to have them still as well. That's really something. You know, the Esban the Cote photo is often described as one of the
12:0012 minutesbest UFO photos, you know, in the public domain. What makes it stand out, you know, more than other UFO photos, do you think?
12:1112 minutes, 11 secondsWell, I guess there's several aspects here. The first and most important one is to be an official government
12:1812 minutes, 18 secondsphotograph here of the National Geography Department of Costa Rica or National Geography Institute of Costa Rica. So, the fact that it's a
12:2612 minutes, 26 secondsgovernment agency of course adds a lot of credibility to the picture. Then the transparency of the Costa Rican
12:3312 minutes, 33 secondsgovernment. Everybody can go into the registry and obtain a certified copy if they wish to. So the openness in the
12:4112 minutes, 41 secondsCosta Rican government, that's something that highlights the the value of this photo here. Then the fact that it was
12:4812 minutes, 48 secondstaken from above instead of from below, it adds a different perspective to the picture. And to me, one of the most
12:5612 minutes, 56 secondsimportant aspects here is the fact that it was an automatic trigger instead of a human hand taking a picture.
13:0413 minutes, 4 secondsAnd finally the fact that it was very meticulously studied by some of the best
13:1313 minutes, 13 secondsDr. Bay Dr. Haynes and have a couple of scientific papers in the journal of scientific exploration that was
13:2113 minutes, 21 secondssufficient enough for the picture to be the cover of the comed report and thanks to the comed report we also have Leslie
13:2913 minutes, 29 secondsKane on board of the UFO subject. The comeda report was the one that got Leslie involved into the UFO subject and she saw the cover with the cot picture.
13:4013 minutes, 40 secondsSo this is part of what we want to also emphasize on this film. One soul picture can make a lot of stories of people
13:4913 minutes, 49 secondsinvolved around it and that's the beauty of it.
13:5213 minutes, 52 secondsYeah, for sure. And Adam, you know, how important for you was documenting like the chain of custody and and the sort of provenence uh behind that?
14:0114 minutes, 1 secondWell, I mean, it's I think it's very important to have that kind of clear chain of custody and um I but to me the
14:1114 minutes, 11 secondsmost interesting part of it all was the human experience around it, right? Like I think it, you know, there's a lot of
14:1814 minutes, 18 secondspeople who are very concerned about like uh having that chain of custody and having it be an official photograph, but
14:2614 minutes, 26 secondslike the most intriguing part of the story to me was all the experiences around it. It was Estabbon's journey
14:3314 minutes, 33 secondswith it. It was Sergio's kind of lifelong experience that he has. And it was like Emmy and the way her and David
14:4214 minutes, 42 secondslive their lives with this like amazing Italian restaurant, but it's alien themed. And it's like so for me I I
14:4914 minutes, 49 secondsliked uh the human character aspect of it uh even more than than the chain of
14:5614 minutes, 56 secondscommand. That's very important. And you know it's very awesome that it it is
15:0215 minutes, 2 secondssuch a um notable government photo. But you know the the real story I think is
15:0915 minutes, 9 secondsin the human experience and um I think that comes through as well.
15:1415 minutes, 14 secondsIt really does. It really does. Uh you know to have this isn't a one-dimensional documentary. It covers
15:2115 minutes, 21 secondsthe image very well. Tells the story but then comes from that complete other angle as well. The human story as you
15:2815 minutes, 28 secondsmentioned and it combines the two angles in such a flawless way. Uh and it's obviously shot beautifully as well. So
15:3515 minutes, 35 secondsthat combination just really makes this documentary stand out and again I will keep urging everyone to uh to go and check it out for sure. Um let's talk
15:4415 minutes, 44 secondsabout you know something Vinnie that I think is is very fair to say it in the in the UFO community UFO world.
15:5315 minutes, 53 secondsWe're always looking for pictures. We're looking for videos. We're looking for evidence. And we see these amazing pictures, these amazing videos. But we
16:0216 minutes, 2 secondsalso need to consider that there's a whole bunch of people behind that event that had had an experience and they and
16:0916 minutes, 9 secondsand and it's only fair for them to share it. It's only fair for to know their story. There's so many ramifications
16:1716 minutes, 17 secondsbehind every story and and and I think in in in this community we can never forget the human aspect involved with the experiencers.
16:2816 minutes, 28 secondsVery well said indeed. I think that needs to be highlighted a lot more for sure, especially in the community because, you know, this is a very good,
16:3616 minutes, 36 secondsclearly a very good UFO photo, but then you add the story to it and the individuals involved and it becomes so
16:4416 minutes, 44 secondsmuch more. It adds credibility. It adds weight and depth to to the image and how it came about. And I think we do forget that sometimes. So again, really good point.
16:5416 minutes, 54 secondsI want us to move on to kind of investigating the image itself. you know, Esban, what are the main sort of conventional explanations that have been
17:0217 minutes, 2 secondssort of proposed for for what the object is, whether they're true or not, what what's it been what over the years, what
17:0917 minutes, 9 secondswhat's it been said to have been there? There's well I have to start first with a funny story because um when
17:1717 minutes, 17 secondsthe picture was released around in in in late 70s early 80s uh it was thanks to
17:2517 minutes, 25 secondsthe work of two pioneer researchers in Costa Rica the built brothers they were UFO researchers pioneers in Costa Rica
17:3317 minutes, 33 secondsand they were the ones who got the picture to Jay Alen Heinik and then to Dr. Bay and they even managed to get the
17:4217 minutes, 42 secondsnegative um the the government permission to take the negative to Dr.
17:4717 minutes, 47 secondsBay. So I mean they deserve an applause the the Belches brothers but because they were UFO researchers and that's
17:5517 minutes, 55 secondswhere I get into the human side at that time the the the bunker Dr. class, Philip class. He said that because the
18:0318 minutes, 3 secondsBelilches brothers were involved in the release that it couldn't be refuted the possibility that they could have been in
18:1018 minutes, 10 secondsthe craft and and threw an a toy outside of the of the aircraft. He said that that was the first attempt to debunk
18:1818 minutes, 18 secondsthis picture. Ridiculous. He said that they were on the plane and maybe they threw an object outside of the plane.
18:2518 minutes, 25 secondsThen afterwards um we need to be [clears throat] to first take into consideration that what we normally see
18:3218 minutes, 32 secondsof the picture is the crop version. We see the disc very clear and that has made people believe that this could be a
18:4118 minutes, 41 secondsparticle of dust that this could be a lens flare or a camera malfunction or even a reflection of the camera itself.
18:5018 minutes, 50 secondsBut then when you go and show the vast area that is covered in this picture and how the disc is just this little tiny
18:5918 minutes, 59 secondsobject, that's when you understand that it's not that likely for it to be this sort of distortion. And on that I prefer
19:0819 minutes, 8 secondsto to welcome everybody to watch the documentary and especially the explanation by Michael Strickland, the film expert, because I'm no film expert.
19:2019 minutes, 20 secondsI'm always open to the possibilities, but then when Michael goes in and explains it, why this is not a lens flare, why this is not a camera
19:2719 minutes, 27 secondsmalfunction, that is very important. One other aspect from the technical side of
19:3419 minutes, 34 secondsthe camera, this was a a special mapping equipment that was donated by the German government to Costa Rica. We're not talking about a camera this size, right?
19:4319 minutes, 43 secondsWe're talking about this huge camera that was part of the And when I'm saying like this is because it was like this
19:4919 minutes, 49 secondssize um attached to the plane and Seru explained that that camera has a maximum
19:5719 minutes, 57 secondsdistortion of four microns which is ridiculously accurate and that in the event that any particle of dust enter
20:0620 minutes, 6 secondsthe camera the camera just stops working. So it is a extremely precise camera used especially for making maps
20:1420 minutes, 14 secondsand that's how all the maps were made in Central and South America with this sort of equipment. So why on just one picture
20:2320 minutes, 23 secondsof all the maps that were made in Central and South America, you get this specific
20:3020 minutes, 30 secondsobject. And for people to say that is just a flare, I I just don't don't agree with it. But let's check about the
20:4020 minutes, 40 secondspicture. Let's check about the size. I hope that everybody can see the explanation from Michael as well. Yeah,
20:4720 minutes, 47 secondshe goes into so much detail. Like you said, it's great to have that. And and I found that bit really interesting about
20:5420 minutes, 54 secondsthe the camera just will not take any images if there's one particle of dust, you know, obstructing the lens in any
21:0221 minutes, 2 secondsway, which means that this is definitely some sort of external object. No matter what it is, UFO or not, uh it's
21:1021 minutes, 10 secondsdefinitely down there, you know, where where uh where it it's shown to be. And obviously with this much detail Sorry, go on.
21:1921 minutes, 19 secondsNo. And and also when Michael does the drum scan, he also explains how the
21:2821 minutes, 28 secondspieces of grain, that's how he calls it, the the gray of how it goes on the scan and how it shows that it is an actually
21:3521 minutes, 35 secondsan actual object. But I wanted to show you audience something here. This this is one of the original prints of of this
21:4221 minutes, 42 secondspictures. And when you see this little tiny thing here, this is the disc. So people are used to see just this portion
21:5121 minutes, 51 secondsbut it is an enormous picture. When we talk about negatives we normally will think if if we're over 35 years old of
22:0022 minutescourse we will think about negatives like this right this small things that this were the classic negatives of the time. But the negative of this picture
22:0922 minutes, 9 secondsis this gigantic thing is it looks like an X-ray.
22:1422 minutes, 14 secondsSo, it's a lot of area, a lot of image to cover in here and not just this little thing. Uh, I mean, it it's it's the pre the precision is outstanding.
22:2622 minutes, 26 secondsIt it really is. Absolutely. And Adam, you know, as a as a filmmaker with all of these details, how do you go about planning, you know, the structure to
22:3522 minutes, 35 secondsmake sure that you get every little bit of information, but then also put it in a kind of coherent order so that it, you know, people can really kind of understand what's being said.
22:4422 minutes, 44 secondsUh well I you know credit to Estabbon and Sergio and Emmy like the story really unfolded in a way that um you
22:5422 minutes, 54 secondsknow I didn't have to do too much writing and and too much uh thinking about how it unfolded. They really kind
23:0223 minutes, 2 secondsof guided me right through it. Um it as a filmmaker when you set out to do
23:0923 minutes, 9 secondssomething um you really for me I really just try to observe the story and not um push any kind of really narrative in it.
23:2023 minutes, 20 secondsIf I found that there was something that disproved this photo, I would have shown you that too. You know what I mean? like
23:2723 minutes, 27 secondsI would have given you every bit of detail that I could have to to prove myself wrong if that if it was there.
23:3523 minutes, 35 secondsAnd that's just not what we found. What we found was that this is a credible photo and that you know to me it it's
23:4423 minutes, 44 secondspretty obvious that it there's an object on there. And you know being a commercial editor and working you know my day job is working on car
23:5123 minutes, 51 secondscommercials. like I to me the way the light wraps around the object and the way um the shape of the object really
24:0024 minutesfelt familiar and that it's like that there's a vehicle there. There's a there's there's something physical
24:0724 minutes, 7 secondsthere. So like to me it it was pretty clear right out of the gate that this is something anomalous and um you know the
24:1524 minutes, 15 secondsstory just kind of filled itself in. Uh, you know, when we we didn't know if we were going to make a short film or a
24:2324 minutes, 23 secondsseries or a featurelength film when we started this, we just knew that there
24:2924 minutes, 29 secondswas this picture and it was super cool and Kelly told us this awesome story on it and uh it would be a lot of fun to go
24:3824 minutes, 38 secondsto Costa Rica and and make a movie about a UFO. Why not, right? Like Yeah. uh you know it it was something
24:4524 minutes, 45 secondsthat I'm I'm a fanboy of the the phenomenon and I really enjoy it and uh you know I'd watch my ancient aliens and
24:5524 minutes, 55 secondsyou know watch all the documentaries that come out like S4 and Sleeping Dog and all these other documentaries. So I'm like a big fan of it in general. But
25:0425 minutes, 4 secondsum yeah, when I saw it, it was it was super cool. And it really it really guided us into what it wanted to be. And
25:1225 minutes, 12 secondsit really every time we went out, some new amazing thing that level of
25:2025 minutes, 20 secondssynchronicity would happen and and we put it on film.
25:2425 minutes, 24 secondsBut I I I need to say something. Adam, you're being way too humble. Adam is an extraordinary filmmaker, [snorts] a
25:3125 minutes, 31 secondsphenomenal filmmaker because not only his crew, I mean um Adam, Megan, Ben, Roberto, everybody that was involved in
25:3925 minutes, 39 secondsthe project, but what I have enjoyed a lot about this process is that seeing all the different versions of the film.
25:4725 minutes, 47 secondsOf course, what we're seeing right now is not the first version of the film.
25:5025 minutes, 50 secondsWe're seeing the final version, but between the first and the final version, there were different drafts. And I remember seeing all of them and saying
25:5825 minutes, 58 secondsmy immediate response to Adam was, "Wow, I love it. I love it. I absolutely love it." And then he came back with another one and I said, "This one is even
26:0526 minutes, 5 secondsbetter." So, um, Adam, you're phenomenal and and thank you for for letting me be part of this project.
26:1426 minutes, 14 secondsCouldn't have done it without you, brother.
26:1726 minutes, 17 seconds[laughter]
26:1826 minutes, 18 secondsI mean, I'm surprised almost in a way that this hasn't been covered in this depth on screen in the past because it it really is such a prominent image. So, you know, I'm glad that it finally is.
26:2826 minutes, 28 secondsAnd I I think we were going to mention it at the start, but Esban, you contacted me back in May of 2022 when
26:3526 minutes, 35 secondsyou had the first drum scan of this image done and kind of I'd obviously seen the image before, but never, you
26:4226 minutes, 42 secondsknow, done a deep dive on it. So that was a a point where I was a part of UAP Media UK. We had the website where we
26:4926 minutes, 49 secondswould regularly do news articles and so I had recently uh joined only probably nine months prior and I'd started
26:5726 minutes, 57 secondswriting articles. So this was kind of my big first big article uh and I had so much fun like digging into the
27:0427 minutes, 4 secondsphotograph speaking with yourself and like I said this was the first drum scan. So I think it's now important is probably a good time to talk about what a drum scan actually is.
27:1427 minutes, 14 secondsYes. Well, first a side note, as I mentioned, one soul picture can touch the lives of a lot of people. I mean,
27:2227 minutes, 22 secondsthis was also your first big project in in in this in UA UIP media. And it was
27:2927 minutes, 29 secondsmy first as well because I had the picture and I have and I and I wasn't sure if I was going to release yet or no
27:3627 minutes, 36 secondsbecause I mean uh stigma stigma. I'm I'm an insurance attorney. I cannot have my client saying
27:4527 minutes, 45 secondsthis guy is going into crazy stuff. That was the view in Costa Rica. And what changed me basically the words by President Obama. I said President Obama
27:5427 minutes, 54 secondsis saying this is real. this is it's time to talk about it. So basically uh
28:0028 minutesduring the pandemic I visited my um I went to Florida because my uncle sadly
28:0728 minutes, 7 secondswas ill and was passing away. So I I went to Florida to visit him and my aunt
28:1428 minutes, 14 secondswith all her love she told she told me I think your uncle would like you to have his cott materials and he gave she gave
28:2228 minutes, 22 secondsme the materials and I was checking that night what what I found there and and and I see this this negative. I was like
28:3128 minutes, 31 secondsoh crap is this a government this this a government this the official negative? I was I was a little bit scared at first.
28:3928 minutes, 39 secondsFirst thing I did is I messaged that moment Leslie Kane and I told Leslie I think I have the negative of the cotto.
28:4828 minutes, 48 secondsSo after that I took the negative to a person here in Costa Rica. I I tried to find out who had the best scanner for
28:5728 minutes, 57 secondspictures. I first went to a Fuji or Kodak studio that still was operating and they told me contact this guy. Went
29:0429 minutes, 4 secondsto that guy. He he made the first negative and the first scan and he told me, "Stephan, you have something here very valuable, but my equipment is not
29:1229 minutes, 12 secondsenough. You should get a drum scanner." I had no idea what a drum scanner was. I was like, "What's a drum scanner?" And
29:1929 minutes, 19 secondshe told me, "This this amazing equipment that will turn this negative into an amazing picture and you should contact
29:2829 minutes, 28 secondspeople in the US." and he sent me the Michael Strickland link. And I mailed
29:3529 minutes, 35 secondsMichael Strickland at that moment. And and and well, if we had Michael here, he would be he he it would be hilarious
29:4329 minutes, 43 secondsbecause my first email was very attorney attorney like I was like, "Well, I have possession this specific material, but I want to do a drum scan. Will you be okay
29:5229 minutes, 52 secondswith signing an NTA?" That kind of language. And he responded, "Sure, of course, I can sign whatever you want."
29:5929 minutes, 59 secondsAnd it was such a good and professional feeling that Vinnie, I sent the negative
30:0630 minutes, 6 secondsby FedEx to Michael. Michael Wow.
30:0930 minutes, 9 secondsscanned it and sent it back to me. But by FedEx, I sent him the negative. That was the level of trust that we that we
30:1630 minutes, 16 secondsreach immediately. And he did this beautiful scan.
30:2230 minutes, 22 secondsThe way that these film studios work, of course, is that they do a beautiful scan and they enhance it a little bit to
30:2930 minutes, 29 secondseliminate any, I don't know, scratches, those kind of things, because that's the product that people normally expect. And
30:3730 minutes, 37 secondsso I got this one and I recalled that there was some user on X that started saying, "Well, but you manipulated this because it doesn't show this scratch."
30:4430 minutes, 44 secondsAnd I was like, "Well, dude, if you want to pay for a new drum scan, be my guest."
30:4830 minutes, 48 seconds[laughter]
30:4830 minutes, 48 secondsI mean, uh, so when we do this new drum scan with Michael in the film, I specifically told Michael, "Do not touch
30:5630 minutes, 56 secondsanything." We wanted to have the scratch so that that dude cannot say it again.
31:0031 minutes[laughter]
31:0131 minutes, 1 secondBut [snorts] when Michael delivered that amazing scan, that's when I reach out to you guys and
31:1031 minutes, 10 secondsyou were so cool and so welcoming in in producing the story for UAP Media UK.
31:1631 minutes, 16 secondsAnd I remember that the story went viral immediately.
31:2031 minutes, 20 secondsAnd for me, you know what was one of my my coolest surprises at that moment is that the story had some comments from Lu
31:2931 minutes, 29 secondsAlisando. I was like, "Oh yeah, Lu Alisando is commenting on the picture." For me, it was such an exciting moment.
31:3531 minutes, 35 secondsSo that's when the photo took off. It became um viral again. And so a picture that was 50 years old became all of a
31:4331 minutes, 43 secondssudden viral again. And there was so much story yet to say. So when Adam and Megan contact me and told me tell me you
31:5131 minutes, 51 secondswant to be part of this, I was of course I am. Of course I I want to be part of this.
31:5631 minutes, 56 secondsYeah, for sure. It was great. Great to get Lou Lou's comments on it. I think we had Jeremy Corbel a quote in there as well in the article.
32:0232 minutes, 2 secondsJeremy and Lesie, all all the all the heavy heavy comments. It was very good.
32:0932 minutes, 9 secondsIt's a shame because I think what I'm going to do is because now that the UAP media website is obviously not not up anymore, I think I'm going to reach out and try and get hold of the article and put it up just online for people to see.
32:2032 minutes, 20 secondsI think it'd be really good.
32:2232 minutes, 22 secondsUm, just sticking with Michael Strickland. Uh, Adam, obviously you go to his studio and film there. So, what was that experience like?
32:3232 minutes, 32 secondsLiberal Kansas. And Estebon can attest to this. What an amazing weird place to
32:3932 minutes, 39 secondsgo. It's in the middle of nowhere. It's five hours from anything and everything.
32:4532 minutes, 45 secondsAnd it's uh it's just this small little town and there's not much there. There's a meat packing plant. There is Michael
32:5332 minutes, 53 secondsStrickland and I think a Denny's, you know, there's like there's not a ton of stuff there. Um but Adam, the name of the airport,
33:0133 minutes, 1 secondremember the name of the airport? It was quite a synchronicity, right? Uh Glenn Martin, right? Is that right?
33:0833 minutes, 8 secondsYes. Yeah. So, from Glen Martin, founder.
33:1133 minutes, 11 secondsYeah. Lockheed and Martin. Uh okay.
33:1433 minutes, 14 secondsReally? Uh and that you know it's this one room apartment. My living room's bigger than the airport is. and uh you
33:2333 minutes, 23 secondsknow and but like it's tied to you know Glenn Martin from Lockheed and Martin which was you know we walked in and there was this like painting on the wall
33:3133 minutes, 31 secondsand Estebon's like look at this right here and I was like wow uh another couple cool things about liberal Kansas was they claimed to be
33:3933 minutes, 39 secondsthe birthplace of Dorothy from Wizard of Oz. So, you'll see a a scene in the film where we kind of go to their um little
33:4833 minutes, 48 secondsarea where they kind of honor her. And obviously, it's, you know, a fictional story, but the governor of Kansas claimed that Liberal was the birthplace
33:5733 minutes, 57 secondsof Dorothy. And there there's some awesome parallels there. That was a ton of fun. And they have this amazing um
34:0334 minutes, 3 secondsMidwest uh air museum there that has we were able to stumble upon an aero
34:1034 minutes, 10 secondscommander. Uh and we caught we shot a scene there and you know we had like I don't know maybe 20 minutes a half hour
34:1734 minutes, 17 secondsbefore our plane uh boarded and it just opened up and we ran in and we're like hey can we shoot a scene here? We're
34:2534 minutes, 25 secondsdoing this documentary and do you have an aero commander? And he's like yeah in the back. And uh so yeah, we had so much
34:3334 minutes, 33 secondsfun in liberal Kansas and it was totally unexpected all the way around. Uh but then you meet Michael and you know he's
34:4334 minutes, 43 secondsone of the most talented photographers I've ever met. He has um he likes to
34:5034 minutes, 50 secondsshoot old world photography on old 8 by10s and you know with real emulsions and that's how he got into drum scanning
34:5734 minutes, 57 secondsin the first place is he does these beautiful landscape photos and he wanted to be able to make archival copies of
35:0535 minutes, 5 secondshis own photography, you know, but in doing so he ended up getting a a drum scanner and then a second one came along
35:1335 minutes, 13 secondsand so he bought two drum scanners and you know, one is kind of his parts machine to keep up the other one because
35:2135 minutes, 21 secondsthey don't make them anymore. Uh, but if you really wanted a true archival copy
35:2735 minutes, 27 secondsof a negative, then, you know, the the Tango drum scanner is the way to go.
35:3435 minutes, 34 secondsIt's like if you're the Smithsonian and you're doing something for your archives, you you're going to want to do
35:4035 minutes, 40 secondsa a a Tango drum scan on it. And this is a very highly specialized piece of equipment. You know, these aren't just a
35:4935 minutes, 49 secondsflatbed scanner and, you know, a small camera in somebody's pocket. These are very
35:5735 minutes, 57 secondsuh highly engineered, highly tuned pieces of equipment that really that not
36:0436 minutes, 4 secondseverybody has. And you know, in talking to Michael, like he's probably the foremost uh drum scan expert in the
36:1236 minutes, 12 secondsworld with the amount of times that he's he's scanned things. I think it was like 15,000 images or something.
36:1736 minutes, 17 seconds15,000 15,000 drum scans.
36:2136 minutes, 21 secondsYou know, that's a that's PhD level uh commitment to to drum scanning. And you
36:2836 minutes, 28 secondsknow talking to Michael he has you know at one one point he wanted to be an astronaut and he wanted to be and he had
36:3536 minutes, 35 secondsa has a very strong engineering mind as well as like a very artistic um mind as well. So yeah liberal Kansas
36:4536 minutes, 45 secondswhat a place it was so amazing and and my and and his work is so beautiful. I mean every all the pictures
36:5236 minutes, 52 secondsthat when you're in in studio is everything is pristine, everything is clean. It's amazing place and and he's
37:0037 minutesquite a professional definitely. Um I do remember asking him that question, how many drum scans have you made? And he
37:0737 minutes, 7 secondssaid 15,000. I was like okay we came to the right guy and absolutely. So for for the audience also
37:1437 minutes, 14 secondsto understand, if you go now to the National Registry of Costa Rica and ask for the scanned copy of this picture,
37:2137 minutes, 21 secondsyou will get a PDF file that is around 17 or 21 megabytes. Okay, that's that's
37:2937 minutes, 29 secondsthe size 17 or 21 megabytes. The drum scan is 2.4 gigabytes.
37:3537 minutes, 35 secondsSo it's a whole different world.
37:3837 minutes, 38 secondsIt really is. I mean, it was so good to see the studio and him, you know, using the drum scanner because I I'd, you know, obviously the first time I'd ever
37:4637 minutes, 46 secondsheard the phrase drum scan was back in 2022 and still never really kind of unders understood fully how it worked,
37:5437 minutes, 54 secondswhat it looked like. And so that was great to see the process happening uh, you know, in the documentary. And like we said, Michael is he's obviously a
38:0238 minutes, 2 secondsvery intelligent, highly skilled at what he does and a great character, let's say, in the documentary.
38:0938 minutes, 9 secondsUm, and I want to speak about the characters. Obviously, Esban, you're you're kind of the researcher in the documentary. Michael's the technical
38:1738 minutes, 17 secondsphoto scanner guy. Um, and I want to jump into the other people. I think before we do that, this is a good point
38:2438 minutes, 24 secondsfor me to uh take a quick commercial break. I've got a video I want to play from my good friend Ryan Sprag over at Somewhere in the Skies.
38:3438 minutes, 34 secondsWhat if the world is far stranger than we've been led to believe? This September 12th, step into the virtual
38:4238 minutes, 42 secondsworld of Anomicon 2026. The premier online conference exploring UFOs, the
38:5038 minutes, 50 secondsparanormal, consciousness, cryptozoolology, folklore, and [music] all things anomalous. Hosted by me, Ryan
38:5838 minutes, 58 secondsSpreg of Somewhere in the Skies and our leading researcher, Suzanne Landers, and featuring legendary paranormal
39:0539 minutes, 5 secondsbroadcaster Jim Harold. Anomicon 2026 brings together researchers, journalists, filmmakers, [music]
39:1239 minutes, 12 secondsauthors, experiencers, and investigators from all around the world. [music] And best thing about Anomicon, there's no
39:2039 minutes, 20 secondstravel, no hotels, no expensive tickets whatsoever. It is 100% free to watch.
39:2739 minutes, 27 secondsJoin us for fascinating ideas, original presentations, anomalous themed music videos, and a global community exploring
39:3539 minutes, 35 secondsthe unknown together. Watch Anomicon 2026 this September 12th on the Summer in the Skies YouTube channel. And to
39:4439 minutes, 44 secondslearn all about our speakers and their presentations, be sure to visit anomicon.com. [music] Links are in the video description or
39:5239 minutes, 52 secondsthe podcast show notes. We hope to see you there September 12th. And remember, the Anomalous [music] is waiting for you at Anomicon 2026.
40:0540 minutes, 5 secondsAll right, there you go everyone. A free virtual conference for everyone to enjoy coming up. So, yeah, shout out to Ryan.
40:1240 minutes, 12 secondsSo, let's jump into these characters.
40:1440 minutes, 14 secondsUm, Sergio, we've mentioned him brief briefly and I'm going to butcher his name. Is it Loisa? Loisa.
40:2240 minutes, 22 secondsLoisa. Okay. Sergio Lisa obviously he took you know he was the guy on the plane operating the equipment and that
40:2840 minutes, 28 secondsbut his story his personal story is so much more than that photograph so let let's jump into that either of you can
40:3640 minutes, 36 secondscan take that one Adam well you meet Sergio and you feel love
40:4340 minutes, 43 secondsyou feel peace you feel like his presence is such a warm and welcoming
40:5140 minutes, 51 secondsvibe you know And uh before we ever stepped foot in Costa Rica, I don't speak Spanish, my wife doesn't speak
40:5840 minutes, 58 secondsSpanish, and Sergio speaks very very very little English. And so uh we uh my wife would text him all day long and
41:0741 minutes, 7 secondsthey they had this like thread going where, you know, through translator they would they had a full conversation
41:1441 minutes, 14 secondsabout, you know, life and family and friends and it was so much more than just the photo. He's like, "Yeah, the photo, but also let me hear about your
41:2241 minutes, 22 secondskids and let me tell you about mine and let me let me tell you about like uh a little bit about life." And so he was
41:2941 minutes, 29 secondssuper welcoming and super open to um getting to know us. And uh it really
41:3741 minutes, 37 secondsfelt like he he wanted, you know, to take the time to get us get to know us personally. And um so through that
41:4641 minutes, 46 secondscommunication, we found out a lot about himself and like kind of the the the type of man he is. And um then we
41:5541 minutes, 55 secondsstarted to hear a little bit about all the different experiences that he's had in life. And they are remarkable, man. He's such a cool
42:0442 minutes, 4 secondsperson. And um he's he's so lovely. Uh big shout out to Sergio Lewis. He's
42:1242 minutes, 12 secondsabsolutely he's so cool. [clears throat] One thing that I would like to add on that, Vinnie, is well, of course, what what you said, Adam, is spot on. He's
42:2042 minutes, 20 secondssuch a nice person. He's he's very warm. He's great person. But also for the technical
42:2942 minutes, 29 secondsaspect, it's important to clarify that Serio and the ctographers that were on the plane themselves, they were trained by the US map service in Fort Clayton.
42:3942 minutes, 39 seconds[clears throat]
42:3942 minutes, 39 secondsSo their special training in maps and photo equipment was the US map service.
42:4842 minutes, 48 secondsSo they also and I saw all the paperwork and and everything with Zio in the picture in Fort Clayton and how he was
42:5642 minutes, 56 secondstrained there. Then all his his photos back in the day in the geography
43:0343 minutes, 3 secondsdepartment, his meetings in the US embassy. So they're the real deal.
43:1043 minutes, 10 secondsAbsolutely. Yeah, it's great how he comes across on the video because again, his story could just be he was the guy
43:1743 minutes, 17 secondson the plane operating the equipment and I love how it just becomes so much more than that from, you know, at the start and then through through the film. It's
43:2643 minutes, 26 secondswonderful to see. And we're introduced to these wonderful other characters as well. And they're all so unique in their own individual way. Uh, I love the scene
43:3543 minutes, 35 secondswhere the is it Emmy? Is it with the pink hair? Um, Kelly's Kelly's Sorry. Kelly.
43:4343 minutes, 43 secondsKelly. Yeah. And and you know, she just appears and she just starts talking about this and her pink house and how she always wanted a pink house and that.
43:5043 minutes, 50 secondsSo, tell us a bit about her, how you found her and and and her story.
43:5643 minutes, 56 secondsYeah, Kelly was a friend of my wife's here in Michigan before she moved to Costa Rica. Okay. Um, so that she's kind
44:0444 minutes, 4 secondsof uh the catalyst for starting this film because she was the person that my wife was visiting on that trip to Costa
44:1244 minutes, 12 secondsRica and she told her this story. And so to Kelly [laughter] Kelly Chaos, she's she's,
44:2144 minutes, 21 secondsyou know, she describes herself as the storm. You know, the calm is when nothing happens and the storm is when everything happens. and uh you know
44:3044 minutes, 30 secondsshe's she's quite the personality but um she lives her life as as you know free
44:3844 minutes, 38 secondsand and she likes to manifest what she wants in life and that was a pink house and the jungle and you know uh a natural
44:4844 minutes, 48 secondssurrounding and all that sort of fun stuff. So uh she's she's definitely an interesting person all the way around.
44:5644 minutes, 56 secondsUm, yeah, she's she's very very interesting.
45:0245 minutes, 2 secondsYeah, for sure. For sure. Um, and then again, I apolog I forget the name of the other lady that we're introduced to with
45:0945 minutes, 9 secondsthe alien themed restaurant. I mean, again, just such a diverse mixture of characters that we we see, you know, because we've gone from this Yeah, Emmy.
45:1845 minutes, 18 secondsThat's so that's Emmy, right? Okay. I was just getting the two confused but you know it seemed like the first half of the documentary was you know introducing the the photograph and
45:2645 minutes, 26 secondstaking us through the the the seriousness and the detail and the depth of it and then we start opening up into these wonderful characters. So yeah
45:3545 minutes, 35 secondsagain either of you please tell us about Emmy and how she came about her story because again she's very interesting. I
45:4245 minutes, 42 secondsremember um after no before getting the negative I went to Cot and I wanted to
45:5245 minutes, 52 secondsdo a little bit of paddle boarding on the lake.
45:5645 minutes, 56 secondsSo I remember going to Cot and driving around to the town of No Warin that is close to Cot and I saw this restaurant
46:0546 minutes, 5 secondscalled the Flying Saucers and I was like wow what is this? Then I logged into into Expedia and it turns out the best
46:1346 minutes, 13 secondsItalian restaurant in town and by far the food is delicious and I met Emmy and immediately
46:2146 minutes, 21 secondswe it's like we known each other all her lives immediately. She's such a nice person both Emmy and David. So and and
46:3046 minutes, 30 secondsEmmy tells tells me her story and Davidid's story about why they came to to to Arenal and why Cot was so relevant
46:4046 minutes, 40 secondsin this story. So Emmy, an extraordinary cook, delicious food, but also such a
46:4846 minutes, 48 secondsnice person that has a tremendous story that the audience deserves to hear definitely in the film. And also I so
46:5846 minutes, 58 secondswhen when we were shooting or or or where when Adam reached me about the project well I called Emmy and I and asked asked her well we're doing this
47:0647 minutes, 6 secondsproject will you like to be here and she was like oh of course yes let's do it and that's what Adam mentions about synchronicity everything was just coming
47:1547 minutes, 15 secondsalong. Uh I do have to recall that before the drums scan, before everything when I went for that paddle board uh
47:2347 minutes, 23 secondsexpedition to the lake, I remember going at night into the town of Noal. I went of course to the flying saucers
47:3247 minutes, 32 secondsrestaurant. Then I went to the supermarket. Then I went to the gas station. And to everybody I I met there,
47:3947 minutes, 39 secondsI was like trying to test. I tell them, "What's all that story about the flying saucers? Do you believe about that thing? Is is it for real?
47:4847 minutes, 48 secondsAnd everybody in Wali was like if it was part of their lives there. Yeah, of course. I mean, my uncle saw them or my aunt saw them or if I have seen them and Oh, yes. And I have this fantastic.
48:0148 minutes, 1 secondWe Oh, we've lost your audio. You're back. Sorry.
48:0748 minutes, 7 secondsNo, you we lost you. Lost you for about five seconds, but you're back now.
48:1148 minutes, 11 secondsOh, sorry. So what I want to say is that for the people in Noal, this situation involving saucers or
48:1948 minutes, 19 secondslights or or something in the sky is not an extraordinary event. It's part of their day-to-day living. It's part of
48:2648 minutes, 26 secondstheir culture. So it's a it's an amazing place to be. And and that's part of of my initial experience meeting Emmy. And shout out to to Emmy. Uh we love her.
48:3848 minutes, 38 secondsYeah, she was wonderful to listen to for sure. And now there's obviously there's a really good part where you know you travel to New York City and meet up with
48:4648 minutes, 46 secondsLeslie Kaine. I mean that's great as well to have someone like Leslie involved. Really really great. What was that like either again either of you?
48:5448 minutes, 54 secondsYou know going to to to speak to this incredible journalist who's you know broken some fantastic stories 2017 and David Grush you know what was that like?
49:0549 minutes, 5 secondsShe's amazing and the level of integrity that she brings to the subject is is
49:1349 minutes, 13 secondsjust awesome because like um you know when we first when we first reached out
49:2049 minutes, 20 secondsto her, Estabbon had known her and and communications throughout the years, but when I first reached out to her for the
49:2849 minutes, 28 secondsdocumentary, you know, I'm just this guy from Detroit who's never made a documentary in this space who uh she doesn't have any previous work to go
49:3649 minutes, 36 secondsback and look at and say, "Okay, he's going to, you know, do a good job with this." Um, but she really took the time to say, "Okay, well, I love this photo.
49:4649 minutes, 46 secondsThis photo is very important to me. It's part of uh my overall experience in in
49:5349 minutes, 53 secondsthis world." you know, it kind of kicked off her journey into um reporting on on this phenomenon with
50:0150 minutes, 1 secondthe when she got a copy of the Ketta Report and that was kind of her first article. So, uh you know, she she added
50:0950 minutes, 9 secondsso much to the documentary. She really um and and she doesn't really say things she doesn't mean and she takes the time
50:1850 minutes, 18 secondsand care to um she you know we would send her uh versions of the documentary along the way too and just to kind of
50:2650 minutes, 26 secondsshare it with her because she was such an important part of this and and you know she would add so much value to it by saying things like hey maybe if you
50:3450 minutes, 34 secondsrewarded this super it would make more sense or like um I don't know if this holds the weight that you wanted to
50:4150 minutes, 41 secondslet's find a different you know uh nice le let's consider that you know she didn't force anything on us she was always um you know hey this is your
50:5050 minutes, 50 secondsproject but she really contributed in a way that just made the film so much better and I can't really imagine having
50:5950 minutes, 59 secondsdone this without her and when we started we didn't know you know she wasn't uh on the list of people to interview we were just kind of flying
51:0751 minutes, 7 secondsdown to Costa Rica and seeing where it took us but then when you know when we made that call she was like well let me think about it and you know she took
51:1551 minutes, 15 secondssome time to think about it and you know we had a couple conversations about you know how
51:2251 minutes, 22 secondsuh how we would make the film what our intent with uh with it was uh one of the things that she wanted she didn't want
51:3051 minutes, 30 secondsto be like intercut with people who were finishing her sentences you know she wanted to make sure that uh what she
51:3851 minutes, 38 secondssaid was what she said and wasn't, you know, Frankensteined into uh, you know, something that she didn't
51:4551 minutes, 45 secondssay. And um, so yeah, she was incredible to work with throughout the process.
51:5151 minutes, 51 secondsLike I and and I I don't think I've ever come across somebody with so much integrity in in this, you know, like I
52:0052 minuteswork in advertising, you know, it's like there's a lot of BS there and she did she's she's not that person. like she's like
52:0852 minutes, 8 secondsand and Adam for her to welcome us in her house and then not only take the time to do the interview but then she
52:1652 minutes, 16 secondsreally took the time to do reviews, suggestions, comments and they were so valuable. I mean like having a review by
52:2452 minutes, 24 secondsLeslie Kane was like okay this is gold
52:2752 minutes, 27 seconds[laughter]
52:2752 minutes, 27 secondsand and so thankful for her time. It's we're so thankful for her time and and and and support. Yeah, absolutely.
52:3752 minutes, 37 secondsShe was great. I Yeah, she was Big shout out to Leslie Kaine. Like she's so amazing.
52:4352 minutes, 43 secondsYeah, it was good to see the contrast as well between all the beautiful filming in Costa Rica and then you're in, you know, the cold of New York City. It was
52:5252 minutes, 52 secondsreally again, and this is kudos to you, you you guys, Adam and and Megan as filmmakers to the cinematography is stunning all the way through as well.
53:0153 minutes, 1 secondyou know, there's there's a million ways it could have been shot and you the way you chose it and presented it was, you know, added so much more on top of the
53:1053 minutes, 10 secondswonderful stories, the wonderful individuals and the seriousness of the actual photo itself. So, you know, you you seem to package it so so perfect.
53:1853 minutes, 18 secondsWell, when we're talking about cinematography, we got to mention Roberto Mario. He is such a great cinematographer.
53:2653 minutes, 26 secondsUh, and you know, he would be like, "Hey, I want to use these anamorphic lenses." And I would be like, "Yes." And
53:3353 minutes, 33 secondshe would say, "Hey, I would like to shoot some 8 millimeter film." And I would be like, "Yes." And so he really
53:4153 minutes, 41 secondsuh he really took the reins on on making sure that this thing looked beautiful.
53:4653 minutes, 46 secondsAnd um, you know, we got these amazing drone shots. We got these amazing um like and and like you said, there's a
53:5553 minutes, 55 secondsreal contrast between the like warmth and uh tropical vibes of Costa Rica and then you go to New York City in
54:0454 minutes, 4 secondsthe winter and it's cold and you can see Estabbon's breath and then Yeah. And then you go to Liberal Kansas
54:1254 minutes, 12 secondsand this is Liberal Kansas is its own place. And uh so you know, yeah, Roberto
54:1854 minutes, 18 secondsreally really jumped in, you know, head first into this project. And
54:2454 minutes, 24 secondsum we almost we we had a different DP lined up at the beginning of the project
54:3254 minutes, 32 secondsand uh you know, like a week before we were heading down to Costa Rica, he's like, "Sorry guys, I can't do it. I got this other project that I got to do and
54:4054 minutes, 40 secondsI'm going to have to uh bail on you. And so it was the best thing that could have ever happened because that led us to
54:4754 minutes, 47 secondsRoberto and he um he was he's so awesome and and Roberto will be like, I'm gonna jump
54:5554 minutes, 55 secondshere and and shoot from below and I'm just gonna lay on the ground. I mean, all the creativity, all the creativity, he he got
55:0255 minutes, 2 secondseverything. He added so so much to this and I think that's true for everybody that was on the project. You know, uh
55:1055 minutes, 10 secondsPablo Carales who is our um producer in Costa Rica, he really was like, "Let's
55:1755 minutes, 17 secondsgo. Let's have some fun with this. Let's do this." And so um and and Luis Garo, who was our AC down there, really really
55:2655 minutes, 26 secondstook charge. And you know, I'm these are people I'm like, "Hey, we're going to drive all over the country of Costa Rica
55:3455 minutes, 34 secondsand we're going to do it really fast and we're going to sleep in weird places and you know, I'm going to be [laughter]
55:4155 minutes, 41 secondsit's going to be feel free to say no because this isn't a Hollywood production. This is a get in a car and let's go and let's go to the people
55:4955 minutes, 49 secondsproduction." and they really jumped on board. And uh you know, Ben Ben Keeler, a good friend of mine who did the audio
55:5755 minutes, 57 secondsmix, came with me and he was there every step of the way. and my friend Darren, who didn't get to come to Costa Rica with us, was there every step of the way
56:0556 minutes, 5 secondsback home in Detroit and he helped us get the camera equipment and shoot all this all these B-roll inserts and like
56:1256 minutes, 12 secondsso um everybody who came along on this journey with us took some ownership into it and really uh really wanted to to put
56:2256 minutes, 22 secondstheir best foot forward, you know, because it because it the photo then meant something to them, you know. When talking to Roberto, he's like, "Yeah,
56:3056 minutes, 30 secondsthis is part of my childhood. Like, of course I know this photo. This is this is, you know, a national treasure of Costa
56:3756 minutes, 37 secondsRica. So, let's do it." Yeah, that's wonderful. You know, and that's the I think sometimes we forget
56:4456 minutes, 44 secondsthat there's a there's a whole team behind that we don't always see uh you know on camera of course and and and it
56:5256 minutes, 52 secondsseems like you for all the synchronicities that happened found the perfect team to produce and get out this perfectly made movie and this is almost
57:0057 minutesa good time. Let's just play play the trailer again cuz I even I want to see see some of this again.
57:0857 minutes, 8 secondsThis was first called the drop [music] because it looked like a little drop of rain, but then when they started looking
57:1657 minutes, 16 secondsit and looking it, they saw clearly a metallic disc shape.
57:2157 minutes, 21 secondsIt's cool just to have a piece of aerial film in general. And then the story behind it even more exciting.
57:2757 minutes, 27 secondsI think this photo is one of the very most important. [music] The Costa Rican government's mapping agency captured that photograph. It's never been proven
57:3557 minutes, 35 seconds[music] to be anything other than something anomalous.
57:4457 minutes, 44 seconds[music]
57:4857 minutes, 48 secondsAmazing.
57:5657 minutes, 56 secondsReally, really amazing. So, you know, before I let you guys go, I wanted this sort of last section of this conversation to really focus back on the
58:0458 minutes, 4 secondsphoto and the object itself because, you know, this is an image that's been in the public domain for many years now. We
58:1258 minutes, 12 secondshave seen some wonderful analysis done by Richard, Dr. Richard Haynes and and Jacqu Valet. some wonderful analysis on
58:2058 minutes, 20 secondsit, but ultimately we don't really know what we're looking at still. Do you think we'll ever get kind of anywhere further with this photograph?
58:3358 minutes, 33 secondsI tried uh I remember I opened I I and with the enormous help by of of Jeremy
58:4058 minutes, 40 secondsCorbel who who who who kindly retweeted this uh I I asked if somebody had a stronger equipment that of than a drum
58:4958 minutes, 49 secondsscan that will be more than glad to lend the negative and that's part of what what we're seeking here also that
58:5658 minutes, 56 secondsanything related to this phenomena should be open and scientific analysis It's not fair for somebody just to hold
59:0359 minutes, 3 secondssomething. We we should share it. So, if somebody has a better equipment, let's let's work on it because it's it's
59:1159 minutes, 11 secondssomething that it will be great to to finally have even more clarity. Um there's things that that also caught my
59:2059 minutes, 20 secondsmind. uh when we see the Westl UFO event for five years earlier in 1966 and we
59:2859 minutes, 28 secondssee the drawings of the time, the object that appeared in Westl is ex is very similar to the object that that appears
59:3559 minutes, 35 secondsin this picture. Then when we see the supposed UFO sighting by John Lennon, his description is also very similar to
59:4459 minutes, 44 secondsthis object. So, and and and [clears throat] it doesn't happen only with this specific shape.
59:5359 minutes, 53 secondsWhen you see the long samura sighting in the 60s and you read some books, there were some sightings of very similar objects a few months before in Texas.
1:00:031 hour, 3 secondsSo, every now and then we see these shapes or these morphologies that tend to repeat. And of course, this doesn't mean that the picture is exactly what
1:00:121 hour, 12 secondshappened at that at at that event, but makes you wonder. But I do think that the biggest message on on UFO research
1:00:211 hour, 21 secondsshould be that it must be open. It is a crime against science when we see the
1:00:291 hour, 29 secondsthe conclusions that were in the preliminary report of Nathan Twining back in the in the 1947. I I recall
1:00:381 hour, 38 secondsGeneral Twin's report and then we go to the first report of the task force in 2021 and the conclusions are basically
1:00:471 hour, 47 secondsthe same. Yes, there's phenomena. Yes, it could be weather. Yes, it could be adversaries and yes, there's something that we maybe do not know what it is and
1:00:551 hour, 55 secondsit could be a government program or something anomalous. So, 70 years between those two reports and they say
1:01:021 hour, 1 minute, 2 secondsbasically the same conclusion. We should have open open analysis and people should be able to share their experiences without fear of ridicule.
1:01:121 hour, 1 minute, 12 secondsYeah, absolutely. I mean the the the thing that I think about this photograph, it has survived over 50 years of scrutiny, you know, and so even
1:01:211 hour, 1 minute, 21 secondsif we don't know necessarily 100% what it is, we're pretty certain it is something anomalous. That's that's for certain. And and I think that in itself
1:01:301 hour, 1 minute, 30 secondsis is huge because you know we we don't see that many photographs or videos or anything out in the public domain that
1:01:361 hour, 1 minute, 36 secondshas survived that for that long. So and I I I encourage everybody that is watching the film to pay close attention
1:01:441 hour, 1 minute, 44 secondsto the moment that Michael Strickland explains the pieces of grain. I believe that's the the phrase that he uses when
1:01:521 hour, 1 minute, 52 secondshe's showing the closeup of the scan. I encourage people to pay attention to that because Mike gives the clear explanation of why this is a physical
1:02:011 hour, 2 minutes, 1 secondobject regardless of what it is. We're not saying what it is. We do not know.
1:02:051 hour, 2 minutes, 5 secondsBut he's saying this is a physical object.
1:02:081 hour, 2 minutes, 8 secondsYeah. And Adam, you know, this obviously this documentary is released today. It's going to shed this story again in a
1:02:161 hour, 2 minutes, 16 secondswhole new light, maybe to a hell of a lot of people that may not be familiar with this photograph. So, what are your hopes and goals for the for the movie?
1:02:241 hour, 2 minutes, 24 secondsWell, um [laughter] I I feel like this film has already been successful to me personally because it
1:02:321 hour, 2 minutes, 32 secondsit really um fulfilled me in a lot of ways creatively. Uh it took me all over
1:02:401 hour, 2 minutes, 40 secondsthe world to crazy places. I've been to not only Costa Rica and New York and liberal Kansas, but then because of that
1:02:491 hour, 2 minutes, 49 secondsI was like, "Well, now we got to go to contact in the desert." And so we went out to Palm Desert out there and then um
1:02:581 hour, 2 minutes, 58 secondsa few weekends ago I went to Cincinnati to the MUN conference and I've been meeting all these people and uh I've
1:03:061 hour, 3 minutes, 6 secondsbeen having a lot of fun with it and it's been a real journey. So I hope that when people watch this film they get a
1:03:141 hour, 3 minutes, 14 secondssense of of this motion, this journey, this movement and um you know I hope it
1:03:211 hour, 3 minutes, 21 secondscan inform a few people and I hope it can entertain a few people. You know I want you to watch this and and have fun and
1:03:291 hour, 3 minutes, 29 secondssee see these beautiful stories. I mean, like Kelly and Emmy and Sergio are all
1:03:371 hour, 3 minutes, 37 secondsvery different people, but the one thing that they really do have in common is that they're genuine. they're true to
1:03:451 hour, 3 minutes, 45 secondsthemselves and they're living life according to their own rules, so to speak, you know, and that's and I think
1:03:521 hour, 3 minutes, 52 secondsultimately that's the message of all this is like be true to yourself, be honest with yourself. You know, life
1:04:011 hour, 4 minutes, 1 secondlife happens here. You know, it's not out in space somewhere. You're not, you know, we're not on Venus or on Earth.
1:04:091 hour, 4 minutes, 9 secondsand and and be grounded and and be with the people around you. And I think that's the ultimate message for me is um
1:04:191 hour, 4 minutes, 19 secondsyou know, be true to yourself and be who you are and and uh so yeah, I I I want people to watch it and I want people to
1:04:271 hour, 4 minutes, 27 secondsenjoy it and I want people to uh have their own conversations about it. If somebody can prove anything
1:04:371 hour, 4 minutes, 37 secondsotherwise, go download the scan and and by all means like keep the conversation going because ultimately that's how we
1:04:451 hour, 4 minutes, 45 secondsgrow and that's how we learn is by sharing and communicating and questioning you know and like all I know
1:04:541 hour, 4 minutes, 54 secondsafter doing this film is that I know nothing at all you know I just
1:04:591 hour, 4 minutes, 59 secondsit it I don't have facts I have um ideas and opinions and um you know I do my
1:05:081 hour, 5 minutes, 8 secondsbest to give you the clearest look at the photo I can but like to me like I said the real story is in the human
1:05:161 hour, 5 minutes, 16 secondsexperience and um I think that comes across you know Adam that's that that's the beauty of of the UFO world you end you
1:05:241 hour, 5 minutes, 24 secondsend up with more questions than answers and I have to say well first to to what
1:05:311 hour, 5 minutes, 31 secondswhat Adam says encourage everybody to go into the website, download the drum scan. Absolutely raw format. Kudos to
1:05:401 hour, 5 minutes, 40 secondsthat guy in Twitter that I I forgot his his name, but yes, raw format.
1:05:461 hour, 5 minutes, 46 secondsAnd of course, I continue saying Twitter because I I'm I'm [laughter] an old guy.
1:05:511 hour, 5 minutes, 51 secondsAnd I do I have to give a shout out to everybody on UFO Twitter. Wonderful community. Uh especially I I mean Dan uh
1:05:591 hour, 5 minutes, 59 secondsDanny Silva um Ryan uh Joe Mer all those
1:06:051 hour, 6 minutes, 5 secondsfolks that make uh UAP James gosh he's a machine I mean we get so amazing
1:06:131 hour, 6 minutes, 13 secondsinformation but along that information I also want to say that we're all waiting for what is the new the next
1:06:201 hour, 6 minutes, 20 secondsgroundbreaking discovery what's the next big thing what's going to be released then and we sometimes forget to see all
1:06:281 hour, 6 minutes, 28 secondsthe steps that had taken us this way ever since 2017 or even before 2017 New
1:06:351 hour, 6 minutes, 35 secondsYork Times story. We have gone so far and I hope that this film can also make
1:06:411 hour, 6 minutes, 41 secondspeople remember all the wonder all the amazing things that are behind the phenomenon that the phenomenon involves
1:06:481 hour, 6 minutes, 48 secondsreal people with real stories and that we always need to remember what is the reason that we keep looking up to the
1:06:551 hour, 6 minutes, 55 secondsskies. that sense of wonder and I believe that Adam and his team made such a beautiful scenery and a beautiful
1:07:041 hour, 7 minutes, 4 secondsstory to help us remember that. So in a word if I hope I with this film I hope that people describe it as beautiful.
1:07:131 hour, 7 minutes, 13 secondsThat's how I will describe it and I hope that is the the sense that people get.
1:07:181 hour, 7 minutes, 18 secondsYeah and I'll just reiterate what I said earlier. I think there are so many dimensions to the documentary that you come away feeling so many different
1:07:251 hour, 7 minutes, 25 secondsfeelings. the beauty absolutely because it's visually striking. The the stories are beautiful within it as well. But you know with that serious aspect and the
1:07:331 hour, 7 minutes, 33 secondsthe great coverage of the the photograph and the technical side of things blended so well. It doesn't feel disjointed in any way. It flows really really well.
1:07:441 hour, 7 minutes, 44 secondsAnd dare I say this will be spoken about like we hear aerial phenomenon or James Foxes the phenomenon. I think this now
1:07:511 hour, 7 minutes, 51 secondssits neatly within all of these, you know, agrade UFO documentaries that we'll remember for years to come. So, I
1:07:591 hour, 7 minutes, 59 secondstip my hat to you, Adam, and the team and and as well. Thank you. My pleasure. That means so much to me personally.
1:08:071 hour, 8 minutes, 7 secondsThat's that's why I do this. Wonderful. Wonderful.
1:08:111 hour, 8 minutes, 11 secondsOne thing Vinnie that I cannot end without saying, I need to be not not only to I mean very thankful with Adam
1:08:181 hour, 8 minutes, 18 secondsand his team. We have become like a family I would say. But also h uh we need to to thank in addition to Leslie
1:08:261 hour, 8 minutes, 26 secondsKane also Jeremy Corbel. He was super helpful and it's very nice to see. I
1:08:341 hour, 8 minutes, 34 secondsmean Leslie she is so busy and she still has time to answer some random guy from Costa Rica. I mean that speaks about how
1:08:421 hour, 8 minutes, 42 secondsgenuinely kind she is. So kudos to Leslie, kudos to Jeremy Corbel, and again, kudos to everybody on UFO Twitter. And let's keep on pushing.
1:08:531 hour, 8 minutes, 53 secondsLet's keep helping people understand the situation. I have been tweeting a lot about risk analysis. You know, you guys
1:09:001 hour, 9 minutesknow I'm insurance attorney, but I think it's important that uh disclosure should not become a black swan event. People
1:09:091 hour, 9 minutes, 9 secondsneed to be aware. people need to be to understand what involves and is our role and our duty to eliminate the stigma.
1:09:191 hour, 9 minutes, 19 secondsWell said. Very well said. And also I'll make sure that the links obviously to the movie and everything are in the description of the video, but also to where people can go and follow your work
1:09:281 hour, 9 minutes, 28 secondsas well, anything relevant that we've spoken about uh during the interview today. And ultimately I just want to say Adam Estban thank you so much for
1:09:361 hour, 9 minutes, 36 secondsjoining me today and know I was just so eager to speak with you after watching the movie. And to everyone watching
1:09:431 hour, 9 minutes, 43 secondseither it's live now or in the future please go and check out the documentary.
1:09:481 hour, 9 minutes, 48 secondsI promise you you will not be disappointed. And yeah thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you. You're a rock star my friend. Thank you.
1:09:571 hour, 9 minutes, 57 seconds[laughter]
1:09:581 hour, 9 minutes, 58 secondsThank you guys. And to everyone watching as always thank you for the ongoing support. We'll be back next week with another interview. But for now, take care and goodbye.