0:00
0 seconds
Now, what one of the things that I found interesting were the fingerprints that uh seem to be of a different character
0:08
8 seconds
than you would expect from human or uh monkey. So, if we we're considering that these things were
0:16
16 seconds
constructed, you know, or hoaxed, um the fact that they have fingerprints is interesting.
0:26
26 seconds
Gary, welcome back to the show. I always appreciate our conversations. So, how's your summer been? It's been great so far. Uh, let's see.
0:35
35 seconds
Late spring, went to Africa for 3 weeks.
0:39
39 seconds
Uh, midsummer. Uh, went to Nice, Monaco, met some interesting people there. Uh,
0:47
47 seconds
got on a ship, went around Italy and Athen to Athens, then to London, then to
0:54
54 seconds
Brighton. Uh then home amazing some wonderful places. Glad to see you visiting uh us over here in the
1:02
1 minute, 2 seconds
UK. Uh so are you recharged and refreshed? Yeah, pretty much.
1:10
1 minute, 10 seconds
It's been a like I said it's been a good summer. I like August because everybody is off grid or as many people
1:18
1 minute, 18 seconds
a lot of people are and so uh especially the Europeans and so it's uh it's nice that I'm not being as bombarded as heavily.
1:27
1 minute, 27 seconds
Wonderful. Excellent. Well, Gary, I've got a few subjects I'd like to touch upon here today. I'm going to start off because Jesse from American Alchemy just
1:35
1 minute, 35 seconds
put out this um piece on the tridactyl mummies from Peru and it's brought the conversation back into the sort of zeitgeist as it were. So I guess you
1:44
1 minute, 44 seconds
know your thoughts would be really interesting on this and you mentioned previously before we hit record that you'd not seen Jesse's um documentary I
1:53
1 minute, 53 seconds
suppose you could call it but they have announced that the DICCom files are available now. Can you tell us what DICCom files are and and what can be garnered from looking at them?
2:03
2 minutes, 3 seconds
Yeah, DICCom files, think of them essentially as a number of slices through a a sample. If it's just a plain
2:11
2 minutes, 11 seconds
X-ray, it's just one flat image. But dicon files are sort of a number of TIFF files all set one by one. I mean,
2:20
2 minutes, 20 seconds
they're not exactly that. So, people please don't correct me. I'm trying to make it manageable. Um and so what they
2:27
2 minutes, 27 seconds
do is they give you essentially a 3D view of the um image and depending upon the number of other settings that might
2:35
2 minutes, 35 seconds
be relevant for the uh let's say MRI you can turn on or off different features from the data collection that's there
2:43
2 minutes, 43 seconds
and it lets you see things in in 3D uh and uh it's it's basically just a 3D animation file.
2:52
2 minutes, 52 seconds
Wonderful. So, it's not enough to do a a full analysis on on these on these mummies, but do you think it's a good starting point?
2:59
2 minutes, 59 seconds
Oh, I think they're enough to do a very good analysis. It all depends upon the resolution of the of the imaging that
3:07
3 minutes, 7 seconds
was done. Uh, you know, I mean, there are diccomish like files for certain
3:14
3 minutes, 14 seconds
kinds of microCT or even near nanoct that can see within bacteria.
3:22
3 minutes, 22 seconds
Um, so depending upon how much time you're willing to wait, you can you could uh essentially analyze a specimen
3:31
3 minutes, 31 seconds
cell by cell, but it would probably take you until the end of time to do it. But by that time, the aliens will have landed and set up an embassy in
3:40
3 minutes, 40 seconds
Washington. So, I mean, these mummies have been around for some time now. It's not anything new. Like I said, it's just been brought back into the conversation a bit more
3:48
3 minutes, 48 seconds
through Jesse's work. But, you know, having kept your eye on some of the things that they've released, are there any red flags or are there any are there
3:56
3 minutes, 56 seconds
any positives and in the same vein negatives that you see?
4:00
4 minutes
Well, I mean, let's just start with the negatives. There's clear it's clear that some of the specimens, let's just
4:07
4 minutes, 7 seconds
generally call them that, are constructed. Now, whether they were constructed with intent to deceive or
4:14
4 minutes, 14 seconds
hoax versus were they made in honor of something and then buried alongside
4:23
4 minutes, 23 seconds
or or maybe they have nothing to do and they're just part of some story that's been passed down. Um, I mean, the carbon
4:30
4 minutes, 30 seconds
dating seems pretty clear that several of the specimens are old, uh, very old.
4:36
4 minutes, 36 seconds
Um, you know, the ones that are the most interesting to me are the three large
4:43
4 minutes, 43 seconds
ones because the liature and um bone
4:51
4 minutes, 51 seconds
system and all of the how it's all put together. Uh I don't mean that in a in a
4:57
4 minutes, 57 seconds
constructed way. Uh looks as interesting as it could be absent getting higher
5:04
5 minutes, 4 seconds
level resolution. um you know be there's lots of really good scientists in South
5:11
5 minutes, 11 seconds
America and if they take a purely scientific approach to it uh they could settle the matter in you know one or two
5:20
5 minutes, 20 seconds
years but I think we've known about them for at least six years now one way or
5:27
5 minutes, 27 seconds
another they might not have reached the kind of global uh understanding that or at least uh view that uh there is today.
5:38
5 minutes, 38 seconds
Um but they've been around a while.
5:43
5 minutes, 43 seconds
So what positives do you see then so far? Well, the the posit well the positive of what I just said is that you know I I've looked at the DICOM files at
5:52
5 minutes, 52 seconds
least downloadable and um you know but I'm not uh uh an anatomist.
5:59
5 minutes, 59 seconds
So you know but I I don't see anything obvious and the anatomists and the forensic scientists who've looked at it
6:07
6 minutes, 7 seconds
so far say it's worth you know further study. Um the DNA data that's out there
6:15
6 minutes, 15 seconds
I still have a hard time with because um you know it it's like with the Otakama
6:23
6 minutes, 23 seconds
mummy uh you know when I first did the sequencing of that uh before I published
6:31
6 minutes, 31 seconds
the paper uh there was a lot of DNA that just didn't look right and so I had to
6:38
6 minutes, 38 seconds
go to experts who knew things about uh ancient DNA or what I presumed to be ancient DNA. It was nowhere near as
6:45
6 minutes, 45 seconds
ancient as we as I suspected it might be. Um and so I I literally contacted the guy who did the Neanderthal
6:54
6 minutes, 54 seconds
sequencing. Um and that's what good science is supposed to be. When you don't know the answer to something, don't just,
7:03
7 minutes, 3 seconds
you know, carry on. Go and find the right expert. So I found the right expert for preparing the DNA. He gave me
7:13
7 minutes, 13 seconds
hints about what I needed to do to correct uh some of the DNA sequences because what happens to even old DNA. So
7:20
7 minutes, 20 seconds
that was what I did with him. Um then the actual biology of bone structure, I
7:28
7 minutes, 28 seconds
needed an expert for that and so it looked like what uh we had at Stanford was the world's expert in pediatric bone
7:36
7 minutes, 36 seconds
disorders, you know, etc., etc. So by the time we were done, we'd assembled a team of 13 or so people that ended up on
7:44
7 minutes, 44 seconds
the paper, each of whom had expertise in the relevant areas so that when it came
7:51
7 minutes, 51 seconds
to compiling the paper, um I felt comfortable putting my name to it. You know, people often say, and
7:59
7 minutes, 59 seconds
there's a you know, there's an individual out there, he who shall go unnamed who happens to be bald wears
8:04
8 minutes, 4 seconds
glasses. Um and uh you know his take on it was that you know I had purposefully
8:13
8 minutes, 13 seconds
and fraudulently changed the data which is ridiculous because in fact it was the students who are analyzing the data. So
8:21
8 minutes, 21 seconds
he's really accusing them of fraud and and not me. Um, so you know, the the point of saying all of that is
8:31
8 minutes, 31 seconds
you can't do good science in under the public glare because people who want
8:39
8 minutes, 39 seconds
results and updates every week or every other week, what
8:46
8 minutes, 46 seconds
they're doing is risking putting under duress the people who are trying
8:53
8 minutes, 53 seconds
to give the information because you'll give information and you say I think it might be this and then you know a week later
9:01
9 minutes, 1 second
you might think something different but it's too late because the Daily Mail has already said Stanford scientist
9:09
9 minutes, 9 seconds
sequences alien baby right and so you end up chasing yourself across the internet
9:18
9 minutes, 18 seconds
um for years to come and that's just not the way that science is done. When I do
9:26
9 minutes, 26 seconds
by day science in biology, um when I'm ready to present a result publicly, even if it's not a going to be
9:35
9 minutes, 35 seconds
in we're not even close to a published paper, it's because I'm so sure of the result and that all the methods etc that were
9:43
9 minutes, 43 seconds
done I feel comfortable giving a little result. It might not be part of a larger story I'm hoping to tell that would make
9:51
9 minutes, 51 seconds
a good paper in a top journal, but it's a snippet of information that's sufficient
9:58
9 minutes, 58 seconds
uh and behind which I will stand uh with all the appropriate scientific caveats.
10:05
10 minutes, 5 seconds
So I people asked I saw in your thread many times you know have I been asked to
10:13
10 minutes, 13 seconds
study the mummy the mummies and yes I mean I probably a few dozen times uh and
10:22
10 minutes, 22 seconds
um by various people but by serious people able to actually enact an outcome
10:29
10 minutes, 29 seconds
with the mummies or with money uh behind it. Um, the first time I was asked, one
10:36
10 minutes, 36 seconds
of the requirements was that I would every moment would be filmed. And I said, "No, I'm not going to be film.
10:46
10 minutes, 46 seconds
This is not the Kardashians.
10:48
10 minutes, 48 seconds
That's not how science is done. My students certainly wouldn't put up with it, and Stanford wouldn't allow it." Um,
10:57
10 minutes, 57 seconds
anyway, and and and so that's the first part of that. And second was I, you know, I said, "Look here, I need a whole bunch of money. Not for me personally.
11:09
11 minutes, 9 seconds
I've got, frankly, plenty of money." Um, and so, uh, I'd always like more, but,
11:17
11 minutes, 17 seconds
you know, I can get on. Um and so the issue was you know I I estimated I
11:26
11 minutes, 26 seconds
think online somewhere about $5 million to do it right which would be paying for
11:33
11 minutes, 33 seconds
uh postto researchers of various types and environmentians of various types and essentially the first thing we would do
11:42
11 minutes, 42 seconds
is collect all the data that's already known figure out what's usable uh what's good preliminary data that would cause
11:50
11 minutes, 50 seconds
us to go look in a next direction. Um, and not set it aside, but put it aside
11:58
11 minutes, 58 seconds
in a way that said, "Okay, well, there's all that preliminary data over there.
12:01
12 minutes, 1 second
Now, let's based on this do the next thing that, you know, we should do." Uh, and then everything needs to be
12:10
12 minutes, 10 seconds
collated, the instruments used, the methods used, etc. because it's all going to have to go into a peer-reviewed
12:18
12 minutes, 18 seconds
paper where you can't just make stuff up about what the methods were. You can't, well, I think I did this. No, that's not
12:27
12 minutes, 27 seconds
what you can do. Um, and that's not what you will do if you're going to do it
12:32
12 minutes, 32 seconds
properly. So, um, and I and it would be probably three or four different teams of people that would need to be brought
12:40
12 minutes, 40 seconds
in to do it right. Um, and so no one was willing to do it that way. Uh, and so I said, "No, uh, I won't I I won't do it."
12:49
12 minutes, 49 seconds
Uh and um you know I I said there's you know there's plenty of good scientists
12:56
12 minutes, 56 seconds
in South America uh but they clearly aren't being given the resources they
13:05
13 minutes, 5 seconds
need nor the power that would allow them to keep results quiet as they're being
13:14
13 minutes, 14 seconds
generated. I mean, I could probably be able to get in the likes of the people the guy the guys who did the Neanderthal
13:23
13 minutes, 23 seconds
work, right?
13:24
13 minutes, 24 seconds
If they felt that I provided them sufficient information that would make it interesting to them and worth their
13:33
13 minutes, 33 seconds
time and not get caught up in the circus uh that can be generated around these things. That's the reason why a lot of
13:41
13 minutes, 41 seconds
serious scientists who who I know are interested in it but won't touch it with
13:48
13 minutes, 48 seconds
a thousand foot pole because of the antics that go on.
13:55
13 minutes, 55 seconds
I mean the similar thing happened I'm just going to be honest with the with the bug sphere. Um, you know, Haimea
14:02
14 minutes, 2 seconds
Massan contacted me soon after he had uh recovered the sphere and I I said, "Okay, great." And he called me. He
14:11
14 minutes, 11 seconds
said, "You know, can you help? What what should I do?" And I said, "Well, you should uh get a um mobile X-ray machine.
14:21
14 minutes, 21 seconds
You can probably find one at your at a veterinarian. Do you happen to know a veterinarian? because they would have one for doing X-rays of cows and horses
14:30
14 minutes, 30 seconds
and things. uh and you need this this and so they he literally managed to get it almost the next day and I sent me
14:37
14 minutes, 37 seconds
some of the first results and I said great okay so let's keep this quiet uh let's do this this and this and uh now I
14:47
14 minutes, 47 seconds
need it at this angle and at this angle and he said okay great I'll do that and then I woke up the next morning Saturday
14:54
14 minutes, 54 seconds
morning it was all over Twitter and I just wrote haime I said this isn't what
15:00
15 minutes
I thought we talked about, you know, and his answer was, "Well, we need to get this information out because someone's going to suppress it." Well, you know,
15:08
15 minutes, 8 seconds
here we are now, what, six months later, and and where are we?
15:15
15 minutes, 15 seconds
Nowhere, you know, um, and uh, maybe Haime is doing something. I, you know, I
15:21
15 minutes, 21 seconds
don't I don't doubt his desire. Uh, but I said I won't be involved with this now
15:30
15 minutes, 30 seconds
because I can't trust that the information won't be ending up on Twitter the next day before we've had an even chance to determine what it is that is going on.
Chapter 2: Scientific study standards
15:41
15 minutes, 41 seconds
Yeah. No, it does it does seem like everything's a bit backward like you said. You know, it should be all done behind the scenes until you're ready to to produce something. But, you know,
15:49
15 minutes, 49 seconds
going back to the tridactyls, obviously these big ones with the tridactyl append appendages, you know, could they be simply some kind of already known
15:57
15 minutes, 57 seconds
mutation? Because, you know, in Jesse's video, they're saying, you know, look, there's no evidence that these have been, you know, four, five fingered and
16:05
16 minutes, 5 seconds
these have been cut off and tampered with. They are naturally three three-toed and three-fingered. But, you know, isn't there a known mutation GLI13
16:13
16 minutes, 13 seconds
or something like that that's known that this could be?
16:17
16 minutes, 17 seconds
It can. Well, I that I think is it might be that might be the gene for polyacty or um I don't know there's probably
16:24
16 minutes, 24 seconds
multiple but you know evolution doesn't work quite like that. Okay.
16:31
16 minutes, 31 seconds
Um in other words yeah you can have a mutation that might cause something like that but the but you know three fingers
16:37
16 minutes, 37 seconds
but there are other elements of those fingers that would have to be explained by one mutation.
16:45
16 minutes, 45 seconds
you know, evolution is I'll try this and then I'll add this and then I'll do this and I'll do this and and the mutations will be spread all the way across the
16:54
16 minutes, 54 seconds
genome. Um each of them compensating for the error that one other mutation might
16:59
16 minutes, 59 seconds
cause. uh and so uh I just don't I mean
17:06
17 minutes, 6 seconds
yes there's a mutation and that is in support of that they're different but
17:12
17 minutes, 12 seconds
you need a full genome to look at uh all at once I mean the the obvious thing to do that I'm surprised nobody's done I
17:21
17 minutes, 21 seconds
mean I it really is so blatantly obvious I don't know how many times I've said it
17:28
17 minutes, 28 seconds
go PCR out a whole bunch plymerous chain reaction amplify out a whole bunch of
17:35
17 minutes, 35 seconds
metabolic genes things that we know should be there if it's you know somewhere in the uh the vertebrate
17:45
17 minutes, 45 seconds
family of genes um and do it from several sites AC over the
17:53
17 minutes, 53 seconds
body uh and then see if the sequences line up with let's say alcohol dehydrogenase,
18:02
18 minutes, 2 seconds
maybe they weren't drinkers, you know, um you name the gene and and so, you know, trying to do the whole genome at once,
18:11
18 minutes, 11 seconds
it's a huge huge issue. It can be done, but there are
18:19
18 minutes, 19 seconds
enough easy first steps that would be preliminary that would that would allow me to go to
18:27
18 minutes, 27 seconds
friends of mine in the business. uh of genomics and say, "Hey, look at this.
18:33
18 minutes, 33 seconds
This is really cool." Because there will be mutations that will be different and not in the let's say the primate line
18:41
18 minutes, 41 seconds
and not in the reptilian line and would give confidence that there's next steps worth doing.
18:52
18 minutes, 52 seconds
Sure.
18:52
18 minutes, 52 seconds
You know, one of the things I felt very uncomfortable about even at the beginning was saying, you know, when they said, "Well, how much would it cost?" process at 5 million to do it
19:00
19 minutes
right. I said, but you know, for half a million I could do the experiment that I just told you. Yeah.
19:07
19 minutes, 7 seconds
Um and then that would be a milestone that would maybe trigger more money, you know? I mean, I'm I mean, whenever I
19:16
19 minutes, 16 seconds
write grants or whenever I start a company, there's always milestone-based uh outcomes you would expect. and uh
19:24
19 minutes, 24 seconds
especially in company formats, milestones come with additional tranches
19:31
19 minutes, 31 seconds
of funds. Uh and so um those are the easy things that could be done. Uh but I'm I I just don't see anybody doing it.
19:43
19 minutes, 43 seconds
Yeah. I mean, it seems that they've got these partial human DNA matches up to a certain percentage and then some anomalous percentages as well. But could
19:52
19 minutes, 52 seconds
it just be that there are some contaminations or even database gaps?
19:56
19 minutes, 56 seconds
Yeah. No, it's I mean DNA that cannot be matched to something does not mean it's an alien. I'm sorry.
20:05
20 minutes, 5 seconds
Um it I mean part of what you just said is true. It could be just fungal contamination of growth. I mean the
20:13
20 minutes, 13 seconds
dietmacous earth keeps them from drying or allows them to dry out but it doesn't stop the internal contamination that
20:22
20 minutes, 22 seconds
would occur from rot inside of the body uh of bacteria etc. Um and so you know
20:30
20 minutes, 30 seconds
there's but there are there are sites in the body uh that are more protected from
20:38
20 minutes, 38 seconds
such contamination. For instance the bone marrow which is why with the aama I I asked for a piece of the rib so I
20:46
20 minutes, 46 seconds
could get the bone marrow because I felt that that would be the furthest away from the gastrointestinal tract where there would be a lot of bacterial contamination.
20:56
20 minutes, 56 seconds
uh and still full of um uh bone marrow uh basically
21:04
21 minutes, 4 seconds
uh immune system cells. Uh that would uh allow me to come to a uh a conclusion
21:11
21 minutes, 11 seconds
uh and not worry so much about contaminating DNA.
21:16
21 minutes, 16 seconds
M do you think cases like this you know discourage academics because of the purely because of the way that it's been portrayed on the internet?
21:26
21 minutes, 26 seconds
Absolutely. I I mean I mean without a doubt. I mean it's even it's even discouraged me.
21:33
21 minutes, 33 seconds
Yeah. So we're we're our own worst enemies sometimes I feel in this field.
21:37
21 minutes, 37 seconds
And you know, it also seems that, you know, these claims of alien mummies are being backtracked slightly to it could potentially be a new unknown homminid,
21:45
21 minutes, 45 seconds
which again is just as it's just as exciting. But I mean, that would that would be earth
21:53
21 minutes, 53 seconds
shaking to say that it's a a new homminid and had nothing to do with with aliens.
22:03
22 minutes, 3 seconds
And but I mean the archaeologists who you would want involved again are are going to be running away. Um plus this
22:12
22 minutes, 12 seconds
is as you might know it's in a protected zone uh for um indigenous peoples of the area
22:21
22 minutes, 21 seconds
who consider it, you know, these caves sacred. Uh, and so there's a there's a lot of um checks and balances that need
22:30
22 minutes, 30 seconds
to be uh set up before you go just chopping things up. Now, what one of the
22:38
22 minutes, 38 seconds
things that I found interesting were the fingerprints that uh seem to be of a different character than you would
22:46
22 minutes, 46 seconds
expect from human or uh monkey. So, if we were considering that these things were
22:54
22 minutes, 54 seconds
constructed you know, or hoaxed. Sure.
22:58
22 minutes, 58 seconds
Um, the fact that they have fingerprints is interesting.
23:03
23 minutes, 3 seconds
Just there. So, there's these tidbits of information that still, you know, give me, you know, diplomatic
23:12
23 minutes, 12 seconds
hope that there's something there. But, um, I don't even know who controls the things now.
23:19
23 minutes, 19 seconds
Is it the Peruvian government? Is it some museum? Is it scientists? Uh, you know, what access do they have?
23:28
23 minutes, 28 seconds
What are they allowed to do? Uh, all of these things um are just uh you know, I
23:36
23 minutes, 36 seconds
and I haven't spent the time to to look into them because I've got my own work to do.
23:41
23 minutes, 41 seconds
Of course. Of course. I mean, it just sounds like it's just one big complete mess. and and and rather than you know sticking on this subject I suppose my
23:48
23 minutes, 48 seconds
last question would be to limit limit any more sort of damage to the credibility of them what would you what would you ideally like to see or what do
23:55
23 minutes, 55 seconds
you think academia would like to see the next step be in legitimizing it any further
24:02
24 minutes, 2 seconds
well I think um the you know the anatomists have had their say and they say that they can't see it uh any
24:11
24 minutes, 11 seconds
evidence of construction in in the limited number of samples, the large ones, not the little puppet things that got pulled out at the Mexican Congress.
24:21
24 minutes, 21 seconds
Um, I mean, that did all the damage necessary to destroy the credibility of anything that came after. Um, the DNA
24:30
24 minutes, 30 seconds
dam the DNA analysis that I just told you about. Sure. Right.
24:34
24 minutes, 34 seconds
That would be the one that uh I think should be done first.
24:40
24 minutes, 40 seconds
Sort of set the gold standard for the next things to come after. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
24:45
24 minutes, 45 seconds
Well, I appreciate that and I'm sure and I hope a lot of people that are watching and have been asking for your view on that are satisfied with that and I appreciate it. So, but let's move on
24:53
24 minutes, 53 seconds
because this is the first time I've had you on the show since this kind of whole Skywatcher thing back at the start of the year and you know I've spoken to a few people that were at the initial
25:01
25 minutes, 1 second
event last year. I even heard you cook them up a mean spaghetti bolognese one night. So, uh enough but like you know
25:09
25 minutes, 9 seconds
it was only spaghetti. Oh, okay. Okay.
25:13
25 minutes, 13 seconds
Um, you know, it's only been a few hours since I think you tweeted out somewhat of an update on what's going on and it does seem that there's been a bit of a
25:20
25 minutes, 20 seconds
quiet period, which, you know, I'm all about patience. I know that rigorous work takes time. So, what can you tell us about the the kind of current
25:29
25 minutes, 29 seconds
understanding of what's happening with SkyWatcher? Well, um we've got uh
Chapter 3: Skywatcher project update
25:37
25 minutes, 37 seconds
a lot of data from multiple uh alleged sightings.
25:43
25 minutes, 43 seconds
Um and I both radar and other kinds of of data. And so first it was about getting
25:52
25 minutes, 52 seconds
the the raw data files all put in one place because some of them some of the data was collected by James before there was officially uh kind of a skywatcher.
26:04
26 minutes, 4 seconds
Uh and so getting that data, getting the instrument names that he used for those,
26:13
26 minutes, 13 seconds
then getting the technical manuals of what the settings might be and how much of that information is collected in the metadata when you're collecting the
26:20
26 minutes, 20 seconds
thing. All of this is is just the organization that you need to do before you do anything else.
26:29
26 minutes, 29 seconds
Um and then getting from the companies how it is that they parse their raw data because some of
26:37
26 minutes, 37 seconds
these data files are um put into I wouldn't call them encrypted but they're
26:45
26 minutes, 45 seconds
they're stacked into a certain kind of file structure and I've seen the file structure which is you can think of it as a giant spreadsheet with headings and
26:54
26 minutes, 54 seconds
numbers for each of the columns uh and time uh on the row axis. uh and
27:02
27 minutes, 2 seconds
so you know we've started looking at some of the data um and put it into let's say 3D tracking uh and uh it's
27:12
27 minutes, 12 seconds
it's clear that there are some things about the data that um we needed to go back to the vendor who makes the
27:21
27 minutes, 21 seconds
instrument and say why why is this and this and this happening you know every few dozen milliseconds
27:30
27 minutes, 30 seconds
and so you know just getting an answer from these companies often when
27:37
27 minutes, 37 seconds
you don't even own the instrument that and so they're like well why should we give you the information about how
27:45
27 minutes, 45 seconds
our data is constructed how do we know that you're not a competitor right I mean and and so these are the
27:53
27 minutes, 53 seconds
kinds of things that we then you know we then contact somebody who has a behindthescenes access to this so that
28:02
28 minutes, 2 seconds
we can again it's all of these little steps and I'm sure there's somebody who is going to tweet well why don't you just put all the raw data out uh on the
28:11
28 minutes, 11 seconds
internet for exactly the same reason you don't put the raw data from ancient DNA sequencing
28:18
28 minutes, 18 seconds
uh because people will make mistakes about it and so uh if I'm going to be
28:25
28 minutes, 25 seconds
involved I'm not going to make any mistakes like that right so I'm Sorry if people want stuff early.
28:33
28 minutes, 33 seconds
Um, you know, I I think, you know, perhaps if well, if if I had been running the whole
28:43
28 minutes, 43 seconds
show, nobody would even know what Skywatcher is right now.
28:48
28 minutes, 48 seconds
Um, that's fair enough.
28:50
28 minutes, 50 seconds
We'd just be collecting the data in a fully stealththed mode. Um and uh but
28:56
28 minutes, 56 seconds
you know it's uh there's reasons good reasons why they wanted some publicity.
29:03
29 minutes, 3 seconds
Uh and uh you know but I don't always get my way.
29:10
29 minutes, 10 seconds
No, I mean I think they've done a great job of balancing that that scientific data gathering and then the kind of more
29:18
29 minutes, 18 seconds
entertainment glossy videos on YouTube that they've released. I think I think that's fine. I think that's good. Um, and like I said, I appreciate that we
29:26
29 minutes, 26 seconds
have to be patient. Um, would you say that the data is exciting?
29:30
29 minutes, 30 seconds
Uh, there's some there's some interesting stuff in there. Um, you know, the I mean, frankly, perhaps some of the
29:38
29 minutes, 38 seconds
better data that we have is just a couple of uh pictures from the ground of
29:45
29 minutes, 45 seconds
the helicopter with something about, you know, 200 feet in front of it or the,
29:52
29 minutes, 52 seconds
you know, I mean, it's I I mean, it's a clear blue sky and there's an object right in front of the helicopter. Um and
30:02
30 minutes, 2 seconds
uh the people in the helicopter said at the time that they couldn't see anything even though we could we could see it
30:09
30 minutes, 9 seconds
from the ground. Um and then I mean but meanwhile all of their instruments are going haywire.
Chapter 4: Psionic capabilities
30:17
30 minutes, 17 seconds
Yeah.
30:17
30 minutes, 17 seconds
So there was an effect. Uh so why couldn't they see it? Maybe it was just out of view. Who knows? Um, so it wasn't
30:26
30 minutes, 26 seconds
a lens flare and it certainly wasn't a seagull, Mick.
30:33
30 minutes, 33 seconds
Not in the desert anyway.
30:37
30 minutes, 37 seconds
I mean, you know, I can't help myself.
30:39
30 minutes, 39 seconds
Oh, I'm all for it. I'm sure Mick would too, hopefully. Um, you know, uh, James Fowler, you know, we know he's left and
30:46
30 minutes, 46 seconds
moved on working with a new company. uh you know, all all the best to him, but am I right in saying some of the technology being utilized by Skywatcher was proprietary to him specifically?
30:57
30 minutes, 57 seconds
Maybe the dog whistle even. Is that still going to be able to be used by Skywatcher? How how's that going to look going forward?
31:03
31 minutes, 3 seconds
Um I'm not sure that we need the dog whistle at this point and maybe there are ways to recreate it. Um, you know,
31:13
31 minutes, 13 seconds
uh, I I'm not, uh, party to the discussions around
31:19
31 minutes, 19 seconds
that. Um, and, uh, so we'll we'll see where that goes. I mean, James is not
31:27
31 minutes, 27 seconds
like gone and forgotten. I mean, I could I could signal chat him right now, right? Uh, and so he's there to help us,
31:36
31 minutes, 36 seconds
but you know, my take on things is, uh, you know, James has a life to live and a
31:44
31 minutes, 44 seconds
family to feed and maybe his focus isn't entirely on UAP. He certainly has an
31:52
31 minutes, 52 seconds
interest in it. Um and maybe he has uh you know a a company to build and an opportunity that actually we all see now
32:01
32 minutes, 1 second
in terms of detecting drones and um you know if he wants to run a company like that then uh running around with a bunch
32:11
32 minutes, 11 seconds
of uh uologists might not be um to that benefit.
32:18
32 minutes, 18 seconds
Yeah, I think we get lost in this sometimes that we forget that there is a life outside of this subject. So I appreciate and and a life you have to live. I mean,
32:26
32 minutes, 26 seconds
you know, Alex and I both have the means to do what we want when we want.
32:36
32 minutes, 36 seconds
Not everybody does.
32:37
32 minutes, 37 seconds
Sure. Of course. And are psionic assets still being utilized like they were, you know, last year? And and I'd like to get
32:46
32 minutes, 46 seconds
your overall view view on that because that's, you know, is that a consciousness based? Is this a whole new adding a whole new angle to this very technical data driven collection system?
32:58
32 minutes, 58 seconds
Well, I mean that's one of the reasons why sort of a sister operation uh of Skyatcher
33:05
33 minutes, 5 seconds
uh is investigating aspects of how psionic so-called alleged
33:13
33 minutes, 13 seconds
uh might be um might be part of this. I mean, do humans
33:20
33 minutes, 20 seconds
have an extra sensory perception? Uh, I mean, I've certainly seen plenty of
33:27
33 minutes, 27 seconds
evidence of it. Um, that some sort of capacity exists. Now, is it
33:37
33 minutes, 37 seconds
is it scientifically validated in a way that some of my colleagues would uh agree with? No.
33:47
33 minutes, 47 seconds
um because it either hasn't been done correctly uh in terms of the kinds of studies or
33:55
33 minutes, 55 seconds
whatever the talent is is not something you can turn on and off with a switch. Right?
Chapter 5: Theories and disclosure
34:02
34 minutes, 2 seconds
So, um, again, the technologies have only just
34:11
34 minutes, 11 seconds
become available that allow you to look at the brain in a way that allows you to
34:18
34 minutes, 18 seconds
see in real time changes that might be occurring when some of these kinds of
34:23
34 minutes, 23 seconds
claimed events occur. Uh and um
34:29
34 minutes, 29 seconds
so you know we've all heard of C5 uh and uh so certainly Skywatcher didn't
34:37
34 minutes, 37 seconds
invent that concept uh and I don't think anybody in the last hundred years invented the concept of C5. People have
34:45
34 minutes, 45 seconds
meditated and called uh claimed to talk to uh the gods or other entities for uh
34:54
34 minutes, 54 seconds
thousands of years. often with plant medicine based help. Um, so, you know, I
35:01
35 minutes, 1 second
I I don't know what it means, but it's certainly worth exploring, but I I think there's perhaps a more scientific way to take the question.
35:14
35 minutes, 14 seconds
Um, if you are an advanced civilization, perhaps you have access to
35:23
35 minutes, 23 seconds
a level of the universe uh where you can read uh things that are
35:31
35 minutes, 31 seconds
happening at a distance purely through technology, not through any magic potions or you
35:40
35 minutes, 40 seconds
know anything that would be considered paran are a normal.
35:45
35 minutes, 45 seconds
So, you know, if you're a million years ahead, you might have sensor systems
35:52
35 minutes, 52 seconds
that can read what's going on in a person's brain at a distance without
35:59
35 minutes, 59 seconds
it being consciousness-based, whatever consciousness is, could be just simple science.
36:10
36 minutes, 10 seconds
Um and you know I mean there have been papers that have just come out even recently about this kind of notion where
36:18
36 minutes, 18 seconds
things can be detected. You can we now know that for instance you can put you know sensors on a person's head and read
36:26
36 minutes, 26 seconds
their dreams using large language models. You know that's just remarkable. A 100 years 10
36:34
36 minutes, 34 seconds
years ago people would laugh at you if you said you were going to do that.
36:39
36 minutes, 39 seconds
So, you know, we're constantly living in this updated science fiction movie where capabilities that we can imagine
36:48
36 minutes, 48 seconds
uh or we think are in the distant future are actually today. Right. Absolutely.
36:55
36 minutes, 55 seconds
And available. So, um I I don't uh I I never underappreciate
37:04
37 minutes, 4 seconds
human capability and smarts to accomplish something like this. And if you're a civilization that's a million years
37:12
37 minutes, 12 seconds
ahead of us, I I I don't doubt that you could do a lot. I mean, at that point, you're probably a cardartesev level five civilization.
37:23
37 minutes, 23 seconds
Yes, indeed. Indeed. Well, okay. Last thing with SkyWatcher then, you know, for everyone out there that thinks that it's all falling apart, you can just, you know, it is all going ahead. It's
37:31
37 minutes, 31 seconds
all being done the proper way, so there's nothing to worry about.
37:34
37 minutes, 34 seconds
Yeah. And there and there might be a day when Skywatcher doesn't need to exist.
37:40
37 minutes, 40 seconds
You know, it's it, you know, the the whole I the whole idea of Skyatcher is to show that something like this can be
37:47
37 minutes, 47 seconds
done uh and it can be done in a serious way. I mean, I would I frankly hope that if the UAP Defense Act, UAPDA disclosure
37:57
37 minutes, 57 seconds
act, um, is passed because then, uh, the
38:05
38 minutes, 5 seconds
information that can be allowed to be out can be let out and the stuff that needs
38:12
38 minutes, 12 seconds
to be kept secret stays secret. Um I I'm I'm again I'm not I I would never
38:20
38 minutes, 20 seconds
advocate for a data dump and so you know call it control disclosure what have you. Um it needs to
38:30
38 minutes, 30 seconds
be done the proper way and you know if if any of the claims are true
38:39
38 minutes, 39 seconds
there are uh reasons why you want to be methodical about it. I'd like to stick with uh science. Uh and Beatrice Voyel
38:48
38 minutes, 48 seconds
recently put out a paper and there's evidence potentially of these mirror-l like possibly artificial objects in Earth's orbit. I wondered if you had any thoughts on her her work.
38:58
38 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah, I you know I've read the papers and um they look fantastic. Again, I'm not an expert in the kind of cgraphy
39:07
39 minutes, 7 seconds
that she was doing. Um but uh you know she did it right. In other words, she
39:15
39 minutes, 15 seconds
she kept most of her conclusions quiet until the paper was published uh or at least put on the archive uh you know
39:24
39 minutes, 24 seconds
still under review. Um you know she she double checked herself. She put all the
39:31
39 minutes, 31 seconds
methods there so anybody can take a look at it. And you know, she frankly again did it the right way by making the
39:40
39 minutes, 40 seconds
science almost boring and simply dedactic
39:46
39 minutes, 46 seconds
listing of the facts without sensational claims. Um, you know, science papers should be boring.
40:00
40 minutes
You can perceive them as being an exciting result, but they're not meant to be full of hyperbole.
40:08
40 minutes, 8 seconds
Uh, and I think she's done just a yman's job uh at this and she's done a great job, frankly.
40:18
40 minutes, 18 seconds
Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Wonderful, wonderful person.
40:21
40 minutes, 21 seconds
I mean, it's exciting. I mean, think about it. uh you know these these photographic plates were collected before we had satellites.
40:31
40 minutes, 31 seconds
Things are appearing and disappearing. Now you know the usual chorus of uh
40:38
40 minutes, 38 seconds
pseudoskeepics are notably quiet um because Beatatric crossed her tees and dotted her eyes.
40:50
40 minutes, 50 seconds
Uh, and again, she's making no uh explosive claims about things. Um, so, uh, let's just see where it goes.
Chapter 6: Soul Foundation goals
41:03
41 minutes, 3 seconds
Yep. Couldn't agree more. Yeah, absolutely. Now, Gary, we're about two months away from the annual Soul Convention Conference, and this time
41:10
41 minutes, 10 seconds
it's going to be held in Italy over here in Europe. So, any real goals or or or even reasons why why Italy?
41:18
41 minutes, 18 seconds
Well, I mean, because the Europeans were complaining, they didn't want to come all the way to California again. Fair enough.
41:26
41 minutes, 26 seconds
And so, you know, so we had it in Italy and uh um we're having it in Italy and so now the Americans are complaining
41:34
41 minutes, 34 seconds
they don't want to fly all the way to Italy. So, uh, you know, it'll be a it'll be a chance for a different venue,
41:40
41 minutes, 40 seconds
a different kind of setting, uh, and perhaps more relaxed because it'll, you know, it's in one,
41:48
41 minutes, 48 seconds
it's in the Lake District. Um, so I, you know, really recommend any Europeans get your tickets fast because it's going to
41:57
41 minutes, 57 seconds
fill up. Um and uh you know it'll be I I I think the way to look at it is
42:05
42 minutes, 5 seconds
both the prior soul meetings there was such a a positive air amongst the
42:13
42 minutes, 13 seconds
participants that people who were let's say relatively new to the framework felt
42:21
42 minutes, 21 seconds
that they found their common kin uh and that there could be discussions
42:28
42 minutes, 28 seconds
questions about this matter in a uh in a mature setting. Uh so I'm I'm excited about that.
42:37
42 minutes, 37 seconds
Does Soul have any long-term goals at the moment as it's evolving?
42:41
42 minutes, 41 seconds
Um you know, I don't think that we've we've changed much from what it is that we're that we're wanting to do.
42:50
42 minutes, 50 seconds
Um, you know, it's pretty much I mean, look, I' I'd love to be everything, but
42:56
42 minutes, 56 seconds
um I think the the goal of being seen as a um leading organization uh to push
43:07
43 minutes, 7 seconds
forward the discussion uh in a broadly academic sense is different say than
43:14
43 minutes, 14 seconds
SCU, which is interested in pushing it forward in a purely scientific ific sense is different than the John Mack
43:22
43 minutes, 22 seconds
institute is different than unhidden you know which is doing experiencer and
43:28
43 minutes, 28 seconds
uh trauma um John Mack institute being around experiencers is different than muon
43:36
43 minutes, 36 seconds
etc um but so I I I I don't feel that having more organizations
43:44
43 minutes, 44 seconds
is a problem to the extent that we can we're trying to organize and coordinate
43:54
43 minutes, 54 seconds
amongst the various groups who who want to participate in discussion to you know to say hey we have volunteers who want
44:02
44 minutes, 2 seconds
to do this but we're not doing that so can we hand them to you do you have any volunteers I mean John Priestand and I have been talking for instance because I
44:10
44 minutes, 10 seconds
get a lot of emails asking for uh let's say
44:18
44 minutes, 18 seconds
medical help or clearly psychiatric help. So, you know, John's a psych, you know, John's a
44:27
44 minutes, 27 seconds
medical psychiatrist, I think. Um, but, you know, so he can advise me on things that I don't
44:36
44 minutes, 36 seconds
know anything about. And so I want to make sure that I construct an answer to the dozens of emails in this regard in a
44:45
44 minutes, 45 seconds
way that respects the request but doesn't offer medical advice because I'm
44:51
44 minutes, 51 seconds
not an MD. Um and even if I were an MD uh you know you're not supposed to offer
44:58
44 minutes, 58 seconds
advice through email. Um and so you know I I think
45:04
45 minutes, 4 seconds
we are kind of in a um in a time where the groups are
45:13
45 minutes, 13 seconds
consolidating their positions uh and making sure that they can move
45:20
45 minutes, 20 seconds
forward. And so it's kind of like you know moving up
45:27
45 minutes, 27 seconds
uh the scale carefully. Um and what's exciting I think most to me are the
45:35
45 minutes, 35 seconds
number of officials around the world uh and officials within the US government who are notably
45:44
45 minutes, 44 seconds
talking about the matter right you know and saying some of them coming right out and saying
45:51
45 minutes, 51 seconds
it there's something here I you know I mean if if that isn't disclosure I don't
45:58
45 minutes, 58 seconds
know what is, you know, look, there's people who still think the earth is flat.
46:04
46 minutes, 4 seconds
And so I don't have a problem with where things are today.
46:10
46 minutes, 10 seconds
Um because I feel like you know even the people previously who didn't uh want the UAPDA
46:20
46 minutes, 20 seconds
to pass because there was um eminent domain in it are now more comfortable
46:27
46 minutes, 27 seconds
because the eminent domain language has been has been buffered a little bit uh
46:33
46 minutes, 33 seconds
which is the right thing to do. Um, and so, you know, we'll we'll see who tries
46:41
46 minutes, 41 seconds
to get in the way, but the the world's not in the most stable position right
46:47
46 minutes, 47 seconds
now. And so, it is fair to ask,
46:54
46 minutes, 54 seconds
is this matter important enough given everything else that's going on? Um,
47:03
47 minutes, 3 seconds
frankly, I never think that that kind of language or excuse is ever a reason not to do something important.
47:10
47 minutes, 10 seconds
Uh, but we have to recognize that the people that who we've elected to be in
47:18
47 minutes, 18 seconds
power uh or to make decisions for us have a lot on their plate. I mean, I can barely
47:25
47 minutes, 25 seconds
answer my own emails, never mind. Do all the other stuff that people ascribe to me.
47:33
47 minutes, 33 seconds
By the way, I have like, as far as most people are concerned, they think that I have like some some, you know, layer uh
47:41
47 minutes, 41 seconds
in, you know, an Antarctic cavern somewhere all this, you know, all my
Chapter 7: Viewer Q&A session
47:47
47 minutes, 47 seconds
research funded by, you know, the the deep state, right?
47:55
47 minutes, 55 seconds
Well, yeah, that's laughable, but well, Gary, listen, at this point, I'd like to jump into some questions from social media. Um, before I uh before I ask the
48:04
48 minutes, 4 seconds
first one, I just want to urge everybody, if you look in the description of this video, I will be placing the Soul Foundation website where you can go and get your tickets if
48:12
48 minutes, 12 seconds
you're interested in attending the European conference in in October in Italy. And also I will post the link to the tridactyls diccom data as well if
48:21
48 minutes, 21 seconds
anyone's interested in going to take a look. So let's jump into some questions here. The first one comes from the
48:29
48 minutes, 29 seconds
unclassified on X. If you were to design an experiment that treats consciousness as a measurable force in physics rather
48:36
48 minutes, 36 seconds
than a byproduct of biology, what would be your first hypothesis to test? Oh mine. uh as a measurable force.
48:48
48 minutes, 48 seconds
Well, I mean think there's two ways. I mean, if a measurable force is uh can you see something at a distance, the
48:55
48 minutes, 55 seconds
remote viewing experiments have already been designed well designed by by people. Uh so, you know, just go look up
49:05
49 minutes, 5 seconds
how how put off and and others has have done that. If you're interested in psychokinesis
49:14
49 minutes, 14 seconds
as a measurable force, then you know there's other people who've done those kinds of experimental
49:21
49 minutes, 21 seconds
designs. If you're interested in telepathy, uh then there's lots of ways that you
49:28
49 minutes, 28 seconds
can measure that. Um try to at least whether you can convince
49:35
49 minutes, 35 seconds
anybody that the results are real. I mean, I've seen experiments done recently with so-called telepathy, and I
49:44
49 minutes, 44 seconds
can't explain how they got h how it happened. Um, you know, assuming that everything I'm
49:52
49 minutes, 52 seconds
seeing is is real. Um, you know, I think perhaps the most important way to
50:01
50 minutes, 1 second
consider it is uh, you know, consciousness as intent.
50:06
50 minutes, 6 seconds
uh you know look I can I can use my consciousness to make this pair of scissors move around
50:14
50 minutes, 14 seconds
right so the the question is whether perception
50:20
50 minutes, 20 seconds
of reality creates that reality um you know and there's lots of discussion about that the question of
50:28
50 minutes, 28 seconds
intent that you know these so-called synchronicities that seem to occur that the stuff that
50:36
50 minutes, 36 seconds
you need seems to show up just at the time when you need it. Um, and I've had that happen to me many times in my life.
50:46
50 minutes, 46 seconds
And perhaps it's just coincidence and observer bias that I'm I'm paying attention when I want something. And so
50:53
50 minutes, 53 seconds
I think it's magic when it happened whereas it has nothing to do with anything other than coincidence.
51:01
51 minutes, 1 second
Um, so it's a great question. Um, you know, I I think um
51:09
51 minutes, 9 seconds
there's other people phys, you know, that's a that's a hundred million dollar set of experiments, right? Yeah.
51:17
51 minutes, 17 seconds
You know, um I mean people have tried the random number generator uh
51:25
51 minutes, 25 seconds
effect where um if you have a random number generator, can you make it more or less? Uh I was watching um a short
51:33
51 minutes, 33 seconds
video by Tyler Henry the other day, the medium, and um you know, he was recounting
51:40
51 minutes, 40 seconds
uh how prior mental bias that your you believe
51:47
51 minutes, 47 seconds
in psychic power versus you don't believe in it.
51:52
51 minutes, 52 seconds
um that those who don't believe in it when they try to guess some random thing, they're they're more wrong than
52:00
52 minutes
statistics should allow as opposed to those who believe in it. They're slightly more
52:08
52 minutes, 8 seconds
able to do something than statistics should allow. So almost like your intent
52:14
52 minutes, 14 seconds
uh creates an outcome um subconsciously. So almost like you have this aura around you that that
52:23
52 minutes, 23 seconds
creates your your local reality. Wow. Okay. Wow.
52:30
52 minutes, 30 seconds
I I've got to go. I haven't seen it. I I I have to go and look up that data. But yeah. No. Wonderful. Wonderful. Um I'm going to butcher this. I've tried it
52:38
52 minutes, 38 seconds
every time. UAP Tech asks knowing what he knows about the Cordate Putaman, does he intend to pursue public data
52:46
52 minutes, 46 seconds
collection from experiences and go for peer-reviewed publication?
52:50
52 minutes, 50 seconds
Um, yes. Uh, and it's being done. Um,
53:00
53 minutes
but we're starting very slowly. I'm being I'm being careful because I'm not I'm trying not to to put anybody in um in a difficult position.
53:13
53 minutes, 13 seconds
Uh so, yes, it's being done. Um, you know, again, it's uh it's always a matter of
53:21
53 minutes, 21 seconds
funding, you know, like even just the materials that I am analyzing or that I've agreed to analyze. People like, "Oh, when is Gary ever going to do
53:30
53 minutes, 30 seconds
this?" Well, you know, if you want to deposit $50,000 in my bank account that I can, you know, for my lab so that I
53:38
53 minutes, 38 seconds
can do the experiments, that would be great. Um, you know, so short answer is
53:45
53 minutes, 45 seconds
you know when when the money's available.
53:48
53 minutes, 48 seconds
Sure. Sure. Just a followup from me on that is will it be using a completely new data set to previous studies that you've done?
53:56
53 minutes, 56 seconds
Would it what? Sorry.
53:57
53 minutes, 57 seconds
Would it be using a new data set of experiencer records? Yeah, I think I I I think you need um for instance for
54:05
54 minutes, 5 seconds
so-called experiencers, you need some kind of uh validation protocol as to you
54:12
54 minutes, 12 seconds
know was there another person who saw the event at the time of the event? Um,
54:22
54 minutes, 22 seconds
you know, frankly, I would want to use I would want to use a lie detector test on people to make sure that they're telling
54:30
54 minutes, 30 seconds
the truth. Um, you know, uh, because that would be at least a filtering
54:37
54 minutes, 37 seconds
device. Um, so, uh, that would be the two things. And then
54:44
54 minutes, 44 seconds
you want to do a psychological exam on the people. Um, but once you're starting to get into this realm, now you're
54:52
54 minutes, 52 seconds
talking about requiring institutional review boards, meaning to make sure that you're doing things ethically.
55:00
55 minutes
Uh, you know, and if you're because if you're doing a psychological exam on people, uh, you know, they have to be blinded. You have to do HIPPA because
55:09
55 minutes, 9 seconds
nobody wants their psychological exams out there on the internet, uh, etc., etc. So all of these things start adding
55:17
55 minutes, 17 seconds
up the costs. I mean, you know why drugs cost so much? Not the stuff you buy in the street corner. Uh but drugs cost a
55:25
55 minutes, 25 seconds
lot because the clinical trials have so many built-in safeguards for the patient
55:31
55 minutes, 31 seconds
that you um it just ups the you know the requirements and then um drugs get
55:39
55 minutes, 39 seconds
pulled in clinical trials very easily because side effects people.
55:47
55 minutes, 47 seconds
Uh, the Lucid Lens says, "I remember a year or two ago hearing Gary speak about work a colleague was working related to
55:54
55 minutes, 54 seconds
a shadow biome. I recall his excitement around the discovery and was wondering if there was any update and a potential connection to non-human intelligence."
56:02
56 minutes, 2 seconds
Yeah, he he he wasn't a colleague. Um, he was a wildlife um and is a wildlife
56:11
56 minutes, 11 seconds
uh tourist. uh basically somebody who takes ranger,
56:17
56 minutes, 17 seconds
let's call him, uh in um in South Africa or Zimbabwe, I forget
56:24
56 minutes, 24 seconds
which. Um and so he had images
56:31
56 minutes, 31 seconds
uh of things that looked odd with a
56:36
56 minutes, 36 seconds
drone. Um, and so I actually paid for a
56:43
56 minutes, 43 seconds
new drone and camera for him. Um, and sent it to him, you know, out in his
56:49
56 minutes, 49 seconds
local. Uh, so he's put all this stuff out on the internet. Um, I don't know where it is. And and again, it was I was
56:58
56 minutes, 58 seconds
excited about it and still am. Uh but again, it uh requires more people to get involved and uh you
57:08
57 minutes, 8 seconds
know, help pay for it. There's only so many I can buy. It was like $7,500. I
57:16
57 minutes, 16 seconds
But you say he's already put some information out online. Are you able to give a name or anywhere we can maybe go his name off hand? Secret. um you know
57:25
57 minutes, 25 seconds
this you know it's it's pictures of these objects kind of moving uh and they're often associated with fires and
57:33
57 minutes, 33 seconds
so people have said oh well this is just ash well you know ash ash doesn't move at 50 miles an hour and and you know
57:42
57 minutes, 42 seconds
they're pretty clearly they they're they're very odd very odd um and so uh again they're they're in this betw
57:50
57 minutes, 50 seconds
twixed in between where you're looking at them and you're going, I don't understand that. It's really interesting. Uh, and I'm not willing to
57:59
57 minutes, 59 seconds
just dismiss them as flying ash, you know, because So, it's interesting.
58:07
58 minutes, 7 seconds
Sounds It It does sound It definitely if you And if you do remember, please message me on Signal because I'll be I'd be interested to I'm terrible with names. I have I can
58:16
58 minutes, 16 seconds
remember methods and ideas since I was five years old. names. I'm terrible at.
Chapter 8: Personal interests
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No problem. No problem. Uh, Frog Machine asks, "What do you think is occurring during a full release dose of 5me DMT?"
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MOD DMT. Now, that's a different one than regular DMT. If I remember
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correctly, that's the um the mythoxy uh DMT
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is um a wholly different experience, I understand, from regular DMT. in Iawaska.
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Um, and so let's just say DMT rather because uh what do I think
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at, you know, if I put on a fully mainstream scientist's hat, I think you're accessing the
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imagination core in your brain that um helps you generate dreams.
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uh and you know all the psychedelic uh fractal geometries that are seen are
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just simply a uh derivative of how the brain functions somehow and that's so that's putting on
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my mainstream hat. Um, if I put on my,
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you know, woo hat, I should get that woo hat. Um, and uh,
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you know, I I might imagine that that allows Roger Penrosees and Steuart Hammeroff's microtubules to access
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some other level of reality um, that uh, our upper level brains
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don't access, you know? I mean, you have to remember that every single one of your atoms sits in spaceime
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and the components that make up those atoms aren't even solid. They're just vibrating objects as best as we can
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think of them. And so they're they're sitting in a substrate and down in a realm where we don't even understand how it's operating.
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And so to think that we understand how all these particles might or might not interact when we can't even
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explain quantum entanglement fully uh is just it's just typical human arrogance.
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So um I mean entanglement is real
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meaning that there's somehow access from this point to another point on the other side of the universe if two particles
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were entangled. So um there's some kind of communication maybe maybe a quantum
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physicist would tell me it's not really communication Gary um it's something else but um so
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I don't know it it kind of excites me to think that there might be some other way
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that our brains operate in spaceime than the simple
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mechanics that we learned in physics 101 as as kids. I mean, I perceive you and
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my meat brain sees a guy uh with in front of a microscope, but in
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reality, you're just a bunch of, you know, vibrating objects in spaceime that
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my brain reduces to something sufficient enough for us to interact. But we're interacting via quantum waves.
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Yeah. Interesting.
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I've had a you know what? I had a lot of people who were asking things completely outside of your work and of UAP and just generally curious and so this one kind of sums it up and we'll end on this one.
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G asks, "What does he do for fun?" What do I do for fun? Um well, I go to
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uh I go to um the equivalent of raves. Oh, wow.
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I have a lot of fun. Uh there, you know, no DMT though.
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No, no, no, no, no drugs. Um alcohol,
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uh you know, um so I go I mean I was in a giant party in Mkos last end of last
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summer. I brought three of my best friends. I rented a villa and flew them all out and we had a blast. Um it was uh
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what's it called? Um, uh, Excelsier Party. Uh, it's it's a
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it's a it's a gay rave. It's gay. Um, so I had fun there. It's beautiful setting.
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Um, and uh, so do that. You know, I have my plant collections.
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Yes, I was going to say I see that on Instagram.
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Yeah, my plant collections. And I, you know, I play video games occasionally. Amazing. Favorite game at the moment?
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anything. League of Legends is my favorite. Okay.
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It's, you know, it's something to just kind of turn your brain off. I'm terrible at it, by the way. Absolutely.
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Doesn't matter. It's it's the escape it's the escapism. I get it. I absolutely get it.
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I I've never I've never gotten out of bronze level more than more than a few games. Right.
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There's about 10 levels above bronze that, you know, Yeah. Yeah. are way out of way out of my league.
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Well, listen, Gary, I just want to thank you as always. It's always an honor to speak with you. So, thank you so much. Thank you.