1:04
1 minute, 4 seconds
the preliminary assessment unidentified aerial phenomenon the report confirmed that vehicles
1:10
1 minute, 10 seconds
of unknown origin are operating in impunity within restricted u.s military airspace the
1:17
1 minute, 17 seconds
majority of this reporting is coming from the u.s navy so why is the air force a wall
1:25
1 minute, 25 seconds
on the entire uap issue former deputy assistant secretary of defense christopher mellon joins me for a debrief
1:35
1 minute, 35 seconds
exclusive to discuss and present data indicating that the air force and its component organizations
1:42
1 minute, 42 seconds
actually detected thousands of uaps from 2004 to 2021. join us as we get rebelliously curious
1:54
1 minute, 54 seconds
[Music] hi chris thank you for joining me on rebelliously curious today the conversation
2:00
2 minutes
about the air force being awol i think many people have had over the years and are recently
2:07
2 minutes, 7 seconds
been hoping that this conversation would actually come about so i'm glad that we're going here today before we get into any conversation around what's happening currently with the
Chapter 3: History of USAF UFO studies
2:16
2 minutes, 16 seconds
air force i'd like to do a couple history past facts so we can run um our listeners
2:22
2 minutes, 22 seconds
and people that are watching up to date so the air force investigated uh started investigating
2:28
2 minutes, 28 seconds
ufos in 1948 and it was known as project sign and then we moved into project grunge into
2:34
2 minutes, 34 seconds
1953 and then it became project blue book blue book as we all know today so then we
2:41
2 minutes, 41 seconds
move into later on the university of colorado ufo project headed by edward c condon as we
2:46
2 minutes, 46 seconds
know of the condom report and the condoning committee and that was back in 1966 to 1968
2:52
2 minutes, 52 seconds
which essentially then provoked the us air force from getting in from getting out of
2:58
2 minutes, 58 seconds
the ufo business so between that time of 1948 to 1969 we had over 12 618 reported sightings
3:09
3 minutes, 9 seconds
and investigations so with that said i'd like to ask you the question then with the air
3:16
3 minutes, 16 seconds
force history and active involvement in the uap conversation how does this contrast now
3:21
3 minutes, 21 seconds
where the air force the air force's current position and then where we are today
Chapter 4: Contrasting Navy and Air Force
3:28
3 minutes, 28 seconds
yeah great question thank you so there was about a half century there of of quietude
3:34
3 minutes, 34 seconds
and uh the air force being mum on the issue and even since it's re-emerged uh many people
3:40
3 minutes, 40 seconds
have been saying why is it only navy reports we hear about and uh so this uh reticence
3:48
3 minutes, 48 seconds
continues the uh 12 000 uh reports you referred to interestingly over 700 of those were unexplained
3:57
3 minutes, 57 seconds
and in contrast to what the air force said which was that well gee if we had more information
4:04
4 minutes, 4 seconds
we could probably explain them all it turns out when you look at those numbers the as
4:09
4 minutes, 9 seconds
they categorize them the cases the more information they had in a case the less likely they were
4:15
4 minutes, 15 seconds
able to to actually find a conventional explanation for it so for many many years we've had a
4:23
4 minutes, 23 seconds
legacy of unexplained cases and reason to believe that there's something very serious
4:30
4 minutes, 30 seconds
going on here that the congress has started trying to pull the information and also the
4:36
4 minutes, 36 seconds
deputy secretary of defense and they're having a hard time frankly getting straight answers
Chapter 5: Timeline for congressional action
4:42
4 minutes, 42 seconds
okay so then why why is it so important for you now to bring up the subject why not a year ago why not when the uap report was coming out why do you feel that this was the best
4:52
4 minutes, 52 seconds
time to have this conversation now well i had to wait until the report came out to see how forthcoming the air force was going to be when it did it took a while to digest the
5:02
5 minutes, 2 seconds
report and the information and frankly i was engaged in some other things and i didn't
5:10
5 minutes, 10 seconds
wasn't initially aware myself that it was so predominantly navy i saw the raw numbers
5:17
5 minutes, 17 seconds
and it was a while later that i found out there was virtually nothing if anything from the air force in there and when you look at the language it says that well we're beginning
5:27
5 minutes, 27 seconds
we think we're going to be getting new sources of information soon including from the us air force and there's another passage where they say we're going to be setting up a uh
5:38
5 minutes, 38 seconds
an exercise or a a training uh pilot somewhere to see how this goes and try to develop a
5:46
5 minutes, 46 seconds
means for characterizing these these uaps which suggests they're possibly thinking about
5:54
5 minutes, 54 seconds
not addressing that huge gap and just ignoring and never reporting what they were asked to report and just moving ahead and saying okay from this point forward we'll start to share
6:03
6 minutes, 3 seconds
information with you so as congress is returning getting back to work we're heading into the
6:09
6 minutes, 9 seconds
authorization and appropriation cycle this is the time to bring this to their attention
6:15
6 minutes, 15 seconds
when they've got the time and the luxury to get the principles in to sit them down hold
6:20
6 minutes, 20 seconds
hearings talk to them gather information and decide what steps to take next so in the article
Chapter 6: Surveillance capabilities
6:27
6 minutes, 27 seconds
in the debrief article you list a whole bunch of unclassified surveillance capabilities can you list a few of them right now with me and why you feel they would be the best
6:38
6 minutes, 38 seconds
to then catch uap radar because right now we're hearing that the air force is saying that nothing's has been uh was detected during that time but i'd like to go through a couple
6:48
6 minutes, 48 seconds
of them that you've listed that you feel would be the best and ideal and then what you might
6:53
6 minutes, 53 seconds
think they might capture with that type of data and radar ability sure well i'll give
6:59
6 minutes, 59 seconds
two quick examples during the cold war we had something called the ballistic missile early warning system and this was a ring of radars across the arctic between the united
7:10
7 minutes, 10 seconds
states and russia that were designed to detect any incoming bombers or icbm missiles that
7:16
7 minutes, 16 seconds
has been upgraded over the years and it's now a synthetic phased array radar system
7:22
7 minutes, 22 seconds
which basically just means it's vastly more powerful and vastly more accurate has more
7:27
7 minutes, 27 seconds
detail they can focus and shape the beams instead of just getting a return from it they can focus on a particular object if they're particularly interested in it for example
7:36
7 minutes, 36 seconds
to get more data so that system covers a huge area and it's inconceivable it's it's impossible
7:44
7 minutes, 44 seconds
to believe that they're not seeing things that are that are unidentified um even if they're just perhaps a flock of geese or a plane without a transponder there's always
7:54
7 minutes, 54 seconds
unidentified you're talking about an area that large over that period of time i know beyond that from interviewing people at norad that there are cases that are definitely not
8:04
8 minutes, 4 seconds
flocks of geese because they're flying at thousands of miles an hour at high altitudes without a transponder and we're trying to intercept them with jets and we can't catch
8:13
8 minutes, 13 seconds
them so uh those systems have an immense amount of data they cover with high fidelity immense
Chapter 7: Unanalyzed historical data
8:21
8 minutes, 21 seconds
areas and for example no one's ever gone back and said okay you have a radar that was looking
8:28
8 minutes, 28 seconds
directly at the nimitz battle group during that famous encounter in 2004. what did the
8:34
8 minutes, 34 seconds
beale air force radar in on the west coast of california show what did the what did that
8:40
8 minutes, 40 seconds
radar show during that period of time if anything so that data can be pulled there's a lot of
8:46
8 minutes, 46 seconds
data there it's never been done to the best of my knowledge the space based infrared system
8:52
8 minutes, 52 seconds
is a network of satellites in different orbits that ensure that we have near continuous global
8:58
8 minutes, 58 seconds
coverage of infrared events anything that produces a lot of heat like a missile plume
9:04
9 minutes, 4 seconds
or a jet going supersonic so to the degree that there are any extreme temperatures involved
9:11
9 minutes, 11 seconds
either hot or cold against the background of the planet that system picks it up and
9:17
9 minutes, 17 seconds
can track it in real time and again immense area of coverage immense amount of data very
9:23
9 minutes, 23 seconds
high quality these days very high fidelity and they can manipulate that data software and process it to an extraordinary degree so that's the kind of thing that we haven't
9:34
9 minutes, 34 seconds
done yet the data that we haven't looked at okay that's fair now with all that data that
Chapter 8: Credibility and feedback
9:40
9 minutes, 40 seconds
we have in this kind of blanket denial right now from the us air force how does this even play into their credibility now moving forward how is that even you know perceived in your
9:49
9 minutes, 49 seconds
own eyes and then maybe people that are closer to you as well too and within government how are they seeing this because we know that they're really there has to be something potentially
9:59
9 minutes, 59 seconds
that they've caught and they're saying that right now there's nothing so how does that play into their credibility uh it certainly raises a question uh serious questions i've
10:09
10 minutes, 9 seconds
been pleased thus far uh today as the first day the article appeared but i've had a lot
10:14
10 minutes, 14 seconds
of positive feedback from navy personnel and from pentagon personnel and so that's very
10:20
10 minutes, 20 seconds
encouraging it's not just me as an outsider looking in uh seeing a disconnect between
10:26
10 minutes, 26 seconds
what the air force has provided and what they undoubtedly must have and how they've responded
10:32
10 minutes, 32 seconds
uh there are people involved with uh the pentagon effort and the defense department intelligence
10:38
10 minutes, 38 seconds
community share those feelings and concerns so i think they're very credible that that's reinforced my conviction it's been a relief frankly that i wasn't missing some glaring
10:48
10 minutes, 48 seconds
obvious fact that that might have explained that otherwise um so i think it does further
10:54
10 minutes, 54 seconds
raise doubts about the air force's credibility on this issue so then where do we go from here what you literally the article just came out today can you tell us some of the feedback
Chapter 9: Future congressional hearings
11:04
11 minutes, 4 seconds
that you've had like what those comments have been right so from some of the navy personnel
11:10
11 minutes, 10 seconds
it's bravo zulu and uh that's just you know navy speak for a good job uh but i think where
11:17
11 minutes, 17 seconds
we go is the questions that i identified in the article hopefully they're going to work their way into congressional hearing books for members uh house members and senators
11:27
11 minutes, 27 seconds
there are some very specific questions there to try to get beyond
11:34
11 minutes, 34 seconds
simply broad opaque large numbers for example do we have any instances whatsoever of objects
11:42
11 minutes, 42 seconds
coming from space entering the earth's atmosphere and maneuvering and or departing if we had
11:51
11 minutes, 51 seconds
two examples like that that would be amazing that would be potentially transformative just
11:58
11 minutes, 58 seconds
two examples like that so there have been a lot of questions asked about how many overall
12:03
12 minutes, 3 seconds
incidents have you had and and some information about the general kind but i think the congress
12:10
12 minutes, 10 seconds
think if they really sharpen their inquiry and their questions they're going to be able
12:15
12 minutes, 15 seconds
to dig much deeper and i think get some information that's going to be very formative and potentially
12:22
12 minutes, 22 seconds
transformative amazing now does the us air force in the navy share any data with each
Chapter 10: Inter-agency data sharing
12:31
12 minutes, 31 seconds
other they do but when it comes to these kinds of issues it's more than maybe sharing with
12:37
12 minutes, 37 seconds
the air force although i will tell you and i was stunned to learn this the east coast
12:43
12 minutes, 43 seconds
incidents from 2015 forward that involved carrier strike groups operating in that training
12:49
12 minutes, 49 seconds
area off the east coast and f-18 fighter squadrons training out there that information when they
12:55
12 minutes, 55 seconds
saw bogeys when they saw an identifies was not going to norad much to my great surprise
13:00
13 minutes
i don't understand that but but that is what i was told so the amount and degree of information
13:07
13 minutes, 7 seconds
sharing maybe is not what it should be but certainly the air force is where this really
13:13
13 minutes, 13 seconds
gets amassed and cumulatively is is processed and stored when it comes to north american
13:20
13 minutes, 20 seconds
aerospace defense and up until now space of course the space parts moving to the space force but historically until just last year that was also purely an air force mission
13:30
13 minutes, 30 seconds
so they're tracking thousands of unidentifieds in orbit every day they're tracking hundreds
13:36
13 minutes, 36 seconds
of unidentifieds around north america every year um the last hard date i saw suggested
13:43
13 minutes, 43 seconds
um 1800 over a period of five years i think it was wow yeah so there's there's a lot of
13:53
13 minutes, 53 seconds
a lot of unidentified uh incidents that happen and there are many that have been reported
13:59
13 minutes, 59 seconds
publicly where we're scrambling jets or our norad partners in canada have had military
14:05
14 minutes, 5 seconds
encounters or commercial airliners one case of a near mid-air collision the commercial
14:10
14 minutes, 10 seconds
airliner had to dive to avoid a mid-air collision so this is serious stuff yeah it is and we
Chapter 11: Civilian and pilot reports
14:17
14 minutes, 17 seconds
also have the civilians as well and we have people that are in the general public that are reporting so what is the government going to do moving forward now starting you know
14:25
14 minutes, 25 seconds
from 2001 2022 what are they going to do with the civilian reports because are we seeing a lot of civilian oversight is what you speak about in your article as well but has the
14:35
14 minutes, 35 seconds
government does the government have a place for that and will it be in the ufo office or it will be somewhere else or will they not even consider it anymore they will at
14:44
14 minutes, 44 seconds
least be getting data from the faa so they'll be getting civilian commercial and private
14:50
14 minutes, 50 seconds
airline pilot data and that's a big step forward because those reports are usually quite reliable
14:57
14 minutes, 57 seconds
and they're often at fairly close range and there is a genuine air safety there on the
15:01
15 minutes, 1 second
military side as well they reported 11 mid near mid-air collisions and those are the
15:09
15 minutes, 9 seconds
ones that were reported undoubtedly there were others that were not reported uh we just know from experience that typically nine out of ten incidents go unreported whether it's
15:18
15 minutes, 18 seconds
military or civilian if not more so they're expanding their reach uh they are going to
15:26
15 minutes, 26 seconds
be getting more civilian input it's not going to be to the extent yet probably mufon but some people are even looking at that capturing the data the photographic information is submitted
15:36
15 minutes, 36 seconds
to the civilian organizations i was just on a call today about that trying to process
15:40
15 minutes, 40 seconds
that video to extract whatever useful information may be there now you brought up mufon and
Chapter 12: Private sector collaboration
15:47
15 minutes, 47 seconds
i think that's a great segue into this would mufon or any private organization be working with the government because we've seen they've done that in the past um and something that
15:57
15 minutes, 57 seconds
they have been sharing personal data and information from people and their experiences now will
16:02
16 minutes, 2 seconds
the government be working with mufon or any other adjacent uh agency or just private group
16:10
16 minutes, 10 seconds
to help document and to help collect data i don't i'm not aware that that's going to
16:16
16 minutes, 16 seconds
be happening anytime soon i think the closest it's going to become in that regard is that
16:21
16 minutes, 21 seconds
income information that's posted to the internet the government may pull and sort some of that
16:27
16 minutes, 27 seconds
data down the road there may be more collaboration there's there's a lot the private sector has
16:33
16 minutes, 33 seconds
to offer we have galileo project now we have harvard university leading this very serious effort with a lot of scientists we have the scientific coalition for ufology we have people
16:43
16 minutes, 43 seconds
like jacques fillet who just produced the first peer-reviewed scientific paper on materials recovered from the uap incident so there's a burgeoning amount of scientific interest
16:53
16 minutes, 53 seconds
there are also a number of wealthy philanthropists who would like to support this now and are
16:58
16 minutes, 58 seconds
beginning to step in because they see options for getting behind this and committing some resources in ways that can make a difference and the money will be spent wisely incredibly
17:09
17 minutes, 9 seconds
so i think the civilian contribution is going to grow through time inevitably uh hopefully there'll be more collaboration across those lines that would be amazing to see it may
17:19
17 minutes, 19 seconds
be one of the first times within the uap community that i think that's ever happened and been
17:24
17 minutes, 24 seconds
taken seriously with all the data that's been collected that we know of and previously you
Chapter 13: What is the Air Force hiding?
17:31
17 minutes, 31 seconds
know before 2004 what do you think the air force is hiding then or are they hiding anything
17:36
17 minutes, 36 seconds
because it speaks volumes when you have all these different types of surveillance capabilities
17:43
17 minutes, 43 seconds
and you're saying that nothing has been found it raises up questions about is your taxpayer money going to the right place and also then what are you hiding can you speak to both
17:54
17 minutes, 54 seconds
of those yeah so you know that's the uh that's the 64 000 question what does the air force
18:01
18 minutes, 1 second
really know and what are they hiding and their behavior as you suggest suggests they really are trying to hide something as i point out the article it's not just a matter of not
18:10
18 minutes, 10 seconds
being forthcoming with with radar data and that sort of thing we have indications that
18:15
18 minutes, 15 seconds
air force osi has been leaning on people trying to prevent them from collaborating in shared
18:24
18 minutes, 24 seconds
spaces that the government has on classified networks reportedly they told air force personnel
18:30
18 minutes, 30 seconds
and pilots not to go directly to the uav task force with reports and instead to go to the
18:37
18 minutes, 37 seconds
national air and space intelligence center basic so it does they do in some ways act
18:44
18 minutes, 44 seconds
like a guilty party that's trying to conceal something um at last the last known location
18:51
18 minutes, 51 seconds
of the famous uh princeton radar day the aegis radar data was in the hands of the air force
18:57
18 minutes, 57 seconds
that has gone missing so you know there are a number of different facts that make it a
19:03
19 minutes, 3 seconds
very legitimate question and uh it's understandable that some people would be suspicious yeah
19:09
19 minutes, 9 seconds
so the question then becomes what kind of information might they be concealing and is
Chapter 14: Sources and methods concerns
19:15
19 minutes, 15 seconds
it genuine sources and methods kinds of information that's vital to protect or is it information
19:22
19 minutes, 22 seconds
that's potentially embarrassing to the air force that reveals they don't have quite the degree of control of our airspace that they would like to have people think we have or
19:32
19 minutes, 32 seconds
yet something else that's uh that remains to be seen right and now i have to ask you
19:38
19 minutes, 38 seconds
have you heard or is any whistleblowers or anybody else internally that have photos or
19:44
19 minutes, 44 seconds
videos of uaps that are directly connected to the air force have you heard or seen anything
19:49
19 minutes, 49 seconds
and will there be anything that's coming out in the likely months or years that you know
19:55
19 minutes, 55 seconds
i have heard i i do believe the air force has a considerable amount of information that
20:02
20 minutes, 2 seconds
they have not yet shared with the uap task force i have reason to believe that and hopefully
20:08
20 minutes, 8 seconds
they will to me it's outrageous that the deputy secretary of defense himself could not seem
20:16
20 minutes, 16 seconds
to get a straight answer now at the time deputy secretary nordquist on august 4th 2020 sent
20:23
20 minutes, 23 seconds
out a directive establishing his task force to pull together information on this topic
20:29
20 minutes, 29 seconds
when he left office the the air force still had not shared information with the uap task
20:35
20 minutes, 35 seconds
force months later when the report was delivered the report explicitly indicates that they
20:41
20 minutes, 41 seconds
didn't they got little if anything from the air force and they're hoping that you know
20:45
20 minutes, 45 seconds
in the future they're going to get more information so uh to me that's kind of a shocking uh rejection
20:52
20 minutes, 52 seconds
by the air force of a request from both congress and the deputy secretary of defense for straight
21:00
21 minutes
answers yeah and they said that there was minor input do you even know what that input was from the air force because it said that they spoke you know when they were putting
Chapter 15: Frustration within the DoD
21:08
21 minutes, 8 seconds
together this report for june 25th that there was a little bit of a conversation with air force do you do you know what those conversations were because there obviously weren't data
21:17
21 minutes, 17 seconds
but there must have been something there absolutely were conversations and interaction and my understanding was that for many months the nature of the conversations and the interactions
21:28
21 minutes, 28 seconds
was uh on the the office of the secretary defense side the task force side we want to
21:34
21 minutes, 34 seconds
get access to this this and this and the air force response was no to put it simply so
21:39
21 minutes, 39 seconds
there were a lot of a lot of frustration about that and i think a lot of conversations about
21:45
21 minutes, 45 seconds
okay we'll give you access maybe to this or maybe that and so forth and those conversations can drag things out and go on for months and months and months it sounds as though that
21:55
21 minutes, 55 seconds
has not been fully resolved yet but i don't know so then i lead into where do we find
22:03
22 minutes, 3 seconds
a solution when it comes to reporting and also our relationship like i would imagine you have some solutions that you have in mind of how we could move forward to make to improve
22:13
22 minutes, 13 seconds
everything that we're doing around this well well i do and i think the first thing that
Chapter 16: Solutions and accountability
22:19
22 minutes, 19 seconds
needs to happen is that congress needs to get the secretary of the air force the air force chief of staff in uh to testify and just put these questions to them do it under
22:31
22 minutes, 31 seconds
oath if need be but put these questions to them in a closed setting probably initially because they're going to be very likely to say well we can't talk about this in public
22:41
22 minutes, 41 seconds
and it's all classified and all that sort of thing but one way or another they should be able to get straight answers from the air force it seems to me unacceptable for that
22:51
22 minutes, 51 seconds
not to happen and i think it will we've got members of congress now who are stepping up
22:56
22 minutes, 56 seconds
who are not afraid anymore of the issue not afraid to use the term uap and are demanding and expecting answers so i think we're likely to see further progress in the months ahead
23:07
23 minutes, 7 seconds
i hope so and then the thing that needs to be done at that point if there's not cooperation
23:11
23 minutes, 11 seconds
uh somebody's head needs to roll that that's the best and most effective way to send a
23:19
23 minutes, 19 seconds
signal i love the story about ray kroc and mcdonald's franchise um you know why were
23:25
23 minutes, 25 seconds
so for the 50s and 60s why were these places all so clean it's big and span it wasn't because he sent a memo around it was because he walked into one of his mcdonald's outlets and saw
23:34
23 minutes, 34 seconds
some flies that just shut those people down and put them out of business and word went to everybody at some point they're going to have to send a message to seniors that this
23:44
23 minutes, 44 seconds
isn't acceptable yeah you have to i have to ask it now whose heads do you think are going
23:50
23 minutes, 50 seconds
to roll if this doesn't we don't can i can i ask i don't know that any heads are going to roll i think more likely they're going to start providing the information but i think
23:59
23 minutes, 59 seconds
this is going on for so long and there's so many questions that haven't been asked and the fact that the air force could just stiff arm the deputy secretary at least that's how
24:09
24 minutes, 9 seconds
it appears from here and stiff arm the deputy secretary and the dni and the congress perhaps
24:17
24 minutes, 17 seconds
there have been discussions behind the scenes probably that we don't know about maybe they've shared more than we know publicly but certainly it does not appear that congress has gotten
24:25
24 minutes, 25 seconds
that information on response to their request if the navy can provide it certainly the air
Chapter 17: National security implications
24:31
24 minutes, 31 seconds
force ought to be able to provide it they're principally responsible for aerospace defense so they're taking billions of dollars to perform this mission to perform this job and it's
24:42
24 minutes, 42 seconds
only reasonable for congress to ask questions about you know how well that equipment's working
24:47
24 minutes, 47 seconds
how well we're performing the function what do we need to do better yeah right and this whole part about the if the equipment isn't working then we're spending so much money
24:58
24 minutes, 58 seconds
on taxpayers dollars for them to be able to to to use these these capabilities for data collecting then the conversation goes into foreign adversaries if they can't even pick
25:08
25 minutes, 8 seconds
up uap activity shouldn't we be concerned that we can't even pick up what's going on around our own world yeah so as i mentioned the article there are some new challenges
25:18
25 minutes, 18 seconds
we're facing as a result of technological breakthroughs and one of them is drones and
25:23
25 minutes, 23 seconds
small unmanned aircraft and vehicles so the many militants fighting the saudi government
25:31
25 minutes, 31 seconds
using some very relatively crude drones were able to take 50 percent of saudi oil production
25:38
25 minutes, 38 seconds
offline by using these drones the azerbaijanis defeated the armenians largely by their use
25:46
25 minutes, 46 seconds
of drones their unexpected uh expertise and efficiency in using those drones and they
25:53
25 minutes, 53 seconds
routed the armenian forces so this is something that we're seeing now uh swarming around some
25:59
25 minutes, 59 seconds
of our warships around nuclear power plants around air force bases we don't know where these things are coming from we don't know how they're doing what they're doing because
26:08
26 minutes, 8 seconds
they seem to remain aloft indefinitely they seem to have an extraordinary power reserves
26:13
26 minutes, 13 seconds
and capability they're not responding from what i hear to anti-uav kinds of signals so
26:23
26 minutes, 23 seconds
there should be a legitimate uh a real urgent concern in my view on the part of the government
26:30
26 minutes, 30 seconds
to get to the bottom of this yeah has there been any way yeah because i would imagine that foreign adversaries outside of uaps are probably way more of a concern than i would
Chapter 18: Foreign adversaries or UAP?
26:39
26 minutes, 39 seconds
say than yeah than than a uap would be have we been able to look at the data that's come well the data that they would have and what we've seen from ufo footage and what has come
26:49
26 minutes, 49 seconds
out recently obviously not from the air force but i've been able to compare it with what we've seen with foreign adversaries and be able to say well yeah you have actually have
26:58
26 minutes, 58 seconds
done this and you should have been able to catch in a uap in action or of any footage or data on it because this is what we have for foreign adversaries have we been even
27:08
27 minutes, 8 seconds
able to compare that in any way or has anybody spoken to you about that well it's interesting
27:13
27 minutes, 13 seconds
the the report indicates that they found no evidence right any foreign government connection
27:19
27 minutes, 19 seconds
to any of these incidents and that remains the case to the best of my knowledge and they
27:25
27 minutes, 25 seconds
have been doing some analysis of course of some of these videos and they continue to have incidents but to date i don't think they found any indication that would suggest these
27:36
27 minutes, 36 seconds
are russian or chinese right and do you personally believe that there could be possibly a position
27:43
27 minutes, 43 seconds
for both because we are human and there might be error that it could possibly be ufos and
27:49
27 minutes, 49 seconds
let's say a foreign adversary as well absolutely and i agree with the report's conclusion that we're not dealing with one phenomenon we're dealing with a spectrum of phenomenon so the
27:58
27 minutes, 58 seconds
small quote drones that we're seeing in some areas are very different than the tic tac that the nimitz caring group encounter and that in turn is very different from other
28:07
28 minutes, 7 seconds
things that we're seeing in different places so we're probably dealing with multiple actors
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28 minutes, 13 seconds
with multiple agendas and uh from my standpoint that's all the more reason to to jump in there
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28 minutes, 19 seconds
and try to get a handle on this yeah so then what do we do then at that point then we realize
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28 minutes, 25 seconds
that it is you if it's multiple players that you were saying how do we how do we move forward with that information and then what do we do to protect ourselves the first thing we
Chapter 19: Next steps in data collection
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28 minutes, 35 seconds
need to do is increase our collection with more data hopefully we can get answers to some of these questions the good news is that we have the finest technical intelligence
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28 minutes, 45 seconds
capability uh on the planet it is as i point out the article very extensive very competent
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28 minutes, 53 seconds
people running it very capable sensors it just hasn't been used as far as we know anyway
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28 minutes, 58 seconds
to try to answer these questions so they need to develop they get that collection plan rolling and go back and pull some of the historical data and analyze that find out what kinds
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29 minutes, 7 seconds
of signatures we can track and and then uh pull that data analyze it and then it becomes
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29 minutes, 15 seconds
an iterative process okay we start to get some insights we start to see a signature and then we maybe modify some of our sensors bring up some new sensors to get more data
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29 minutes, 24 seconds
and so forth in a feedback loop and hopefully if we follow that that sort of normal pattern
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29 minutes, 30 seconds
like we would with a soviet icbm or our other hypersonic vehicles we need to apply the same
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29 minutes, 36 seconds
sort of rigor and the same sort of intensity and level of effort to this problem right
Chapter 20: Cultural stigma differences
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29 minutes, 41 seconds
and i'm going to move into stigma now before we we wrap you know the stigma has been evolving
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29 minutes, 48 seconds
over time where before people were ridiculed so bad for talking about ufos or even just
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29 minutes, 54 seconds
talking about their own experiences and losing their wings losing their jobs where is the stigma now within the u.s air force compared to the navy because we're seeing that the
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30 minutes, 3 seconds
navy is having these open conversations but the air force isn't is the stigma still really strong in the the air force at this time uh i can't say for certain but that does appear
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30 minutes, 14 seconds
to be the case and one reason i say that is because since 2015 we've had navy pilots reporting
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30 minutes, 21 seconds
uaps from w76 which is one of the training areas off the east coast air force pilots
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30 minutes, 27 seconds
and f-22s are flying in the same training area and they have superior sensor systems
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30 minutes, 33 seconds
and they apparently have not been reporting any of these things they must have been appearing on their their radars their sensor systems there's a sense that the air force uh does
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30 minutes, 43 seconds
a much stronger taboo about this about this subject and it's it's very uh an unwelcome
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30 minutes, 50 seconds
term in air force circles so i think there is a cultural difference between the air force and the navy yeah and you're right you're having so many of these other areas that are
31:00
31 minutes
should be detecting the same information but they're not they're obviously not reporting it the navy is so i before i wrap i i have to ask you your opinion on everything that
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31 minutes, 11 seconds
is going on you know there's so many theories that it's interdimensional that it's extraterrestrial
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31 minutes, 16 seconds
uh where do you sit and put all of this uap activity where do you actually feel in your
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31 minutes, 23 seconds
opinion what is happening i've been very reserved about speculating or sharing private opinions
Chapter 21: Concluding thoughts
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31 minutes, 32 seconds
i've been very reluctant to do so i don't like to go beyond anything that i can back
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31 minutes, 39 seconds
up and what what is available in the public sector is certainly not definitive enough
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31 minutes, 46 seconds
to come down hard on behind any one theory so i try to approach it with an open mind
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31 minutes, 53 seconds
let's follow the facts let's get more facts and let's see where they lead us that's that's really my approach thank you for joining me today and as i said everybody thank you for
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32 minutes, 1 second
being rebelliously curious with me thank you for your assistance thank you so much really
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32 minutes, 6 seconds
appreciate it thank you [Music] you