1:021 minute, 2 secondsWelcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I am  your host, Ryan Sprag, and today we are  
1:061 minute, 6 secondsjoined by filmmakers Adam Pillan and Megan  Woomer, the creators of the new documentary,  
1:141 minute, 14 secondsThe Cotay Photo. The Cotay Photo is a documentary  that investigates one of the most compelling and  
1:201 minute, 20 secondsenduring UFO photographs ever taken. A mysterious  discshaped object captured over Lake Cot in Costa  
1:281 minute, 28 secondsRica during an official government aerial mapping  mission in 1971. Through the people connected  
1:351 minute, 35 secondsto the photograph, its remarkable history and  decades of analysis. The film explores why this  
1:421 minute, 42 secondssingle image has remained so difficult to explain  and that [music] perhaps the most important thing  
1:481 minute, 48 secondsis rather than claiming to solve the mystery. The  Cotay photo asks a bigger question. What happens  
1:561 minute, 56 secondswhen a piece of evidence survives scrutiny  and we're still left without an answer? Now,  
2:022 minutes, 2 secondsSuzanne Landers and I both had the opportunity to  advance screen this documentary, and we were both  
2:082 minutes, 8 secondscompletely blown away. So, it was an absolute  honor and pleasure to talk to Adam and to Megan  
2:152 minutes, 15 secondsall about their film. We really get in the weeds  with this one, and it was a lot of fun. And so  
2:212 minutes, 21 secondsyou're going to learn all about the Cotay photo,  the thoughts and theories on what it could be,  
2:272 minutes, 27 secondsuh how they were able to find the actual  [music] photographer who took the photo  
2:322 minutes, 32 secondsand the rich history that this individual has  with the UFO topic. Uh we also get to learn  
2:392 minutes, 39 secondsmore about how they analyze the photo and why  we know for a fact that it is an actual solid  
2:462 minutes, 46 secondsobject in this photo. [music] It's amazing. It's  one of the clearest UFO photos ever taken and  
2:542 minutes, 54 secondswe get to learn so so much about it in the  new documentary and in this interview. So,  
3:003 minutesI cannot wait for you guys to watch the  documentary and to listen to this interview.  
3:063 minutes, 6 secondsThere are links in the show notes or in the video  description to go to the documentary to order it,  
3:123 minutes, 12 secondsto watch it, and a [music] link to the official  Cotay photo website as well, where you can learn  
3:183 minutes, 18 secondsso much more about the filmmakers [music] and the  film itself. But before we get to that interview,  
3:253 minutes, 25 secondsI want to take just a few moments to ask you guys  to please rate and review somewhere in the skies  
3:313 minutes, 31 secondson Apple Podcasts and on Spotify. Every single one  of your ratings and reviews helps us get boosted  
3:373 minutes, 37 secondsup in the algorithms and possibly get featured and  to find new curious minds to [music] listen to the  
3:443 minutes, 44 secondsshow. You can also like and subscribe if you're  watching this on YouTube. That goes a very long  
3:503 minutes, 50 secondsway. Comment under the video. That boosts us up in  the algorithm as well. It all helps. Anything you  
3:563 minutes, 56 secondscould do to help spread the word about Summer  [music] Skies is greatly appreciated. Guys,  
4:014 minutes, 1 secondif you'd like to further support us, we have many  options. We have Patreon, Apple Premium, we also  
4:084 minutes, 8 secondshave YouTube channel membership. You get a bunch  of bonus episodes, early access to the podcast,  
4:144 minutes, 14 secondsand many other rewards by joining any of those.  Links are in the show notes and video description  
4:194 minutes, 19 secondsas well. But let's get to this awesome interview.  And I cannot wait for you guys to see the Cotay  
4:274 minutes, 27 secondsphoto. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies and a  huge welcome to our two guests. Today we have  
4:364 minutes, 36 secondsAdam and Megan from the Cotay Photo documentary.  A new documentary coming to you guys in gosh just  
4:454 minutes, 45 secondsa few days as we're recording this. And we're  joined today also by our wonderful co-host  
4:514 minutes, 51 secondsSuzanne. We're going to be talking all about  the new documentary, what could be the clearest  
Chapter 2: The Story of the Cote UFO Photo
4:584 minutes, 58 secondsUFO photo in history. We're going to be showing  it to you guys tonight. You're going to see it  
5:045 minutes, 4 secondsum all over the documentary. And yeah, we're just  going to kind of uh dissect what the Cotay photo  
5:105 minutes, 10 secondsis, why it's so important, and why these two  lovely people decided to make this documentary  
5:165 minutes, 16 secondsabout it. So, Megan and Adam, welcome to Somewhere  in the Skies. Thank you. Thank you for having us.  
5:225 minutes, 22 secondsIt's a pleasure to be on. Absolutely. And it was  a pleasure to watch the documentary. Now, you guys  
5:285 minutes, 28 secondswere kind enough to give Suzanne and I advanced  screeners to watch. So, we have a lot of questions  
5:345 minutes, 34 secondsand uh a lot of them are answered in the film,  too. So, we won't give away too much tonight, but  
5:405 minutes, 40 secondsuh let's start kind of from the very beginning.  Now, for those who may not know what the Cotay  
5:475 minutes, 47 secondsphoto is, obvious first question. Whoever wants  to take that. What exactly is the Cotay photo? Do  
5:545 minutes, 54 secondsyou want to start or you want me to go? Uh, you  can start. All right. I'll I'll start us off.  
5:595 minutes, 59 secondsCool. In in 1971 in Costa Rica, Sergio Lewis, a  cgrapher, was flying in a Aer Commander airplane  
6:096 minutes, 9 secondsand they were on an a mapping expedition for the  Costa Rican government. And during that mapping  
6:166 minutes, 16 secondsexpedition, they caught this object on a high  resolution piece of film. The film was taken uh  
6:266 minutes, 26 secondsby a specialized cardographic camera designed to  make maps. And uh there's this stunning 3D object  
6:366 minutes, 36 secondsthat appears on it that resembles uh what a lot  of people call flying saucers. [laughter] And it's  
6:456 minutes, 45 secondsIt's a remarkable image. Um, it's stood the test  of time. It's been in the hands of the Costa Rican  
6:536 minutes, 53 secondsgovernment. It has a a a very distinct chain of  custody. Um, and it is often regarded as one of  
7:017 minutes, 1 secondthe clearest images of a UFO ever taken. [clears  throat] Absolutely. I mean, when you know, I have  
7:087 minutes, 8 secondsthose skeptic friends. Obviously, you know, things  are changing in the UFO world. It's more widely  
7:137 minutes, 13 secondsaccepted now. But if they ever ask me like, "Give  me the smoking gun evidence. Give me the photo,  
7:197 minutes, 19 secondsthe video, the, you know, the dead alien." I don't  have that. But I do have the Cotay photo to show  
7:267 minutes, 26 secondsthem. And I will tell you, this is the one I turn  people to all the time. And I want to get your  
7:327 minutes, 32 secondsguys' thoughts on that a little bit later, like  what you consider good evidence. Um, is the Cotay  
7:387 minutes, 38 secondsphoto the only one? Um, but before we get there,  that's kind of the background of the photo itself.  
7:457 minutes, 45 secondsBut, uh, what how did you guys get involved? Like,  what was your interest in the UFO topic? How did  
7:527 minutes, 52 secondsthe Cotay photo kind of end up in your guys  lap? And, uh, what made you decide to want to  
7:577 minutes, 57 secondsdo a documentary about it? Well, I was visiting  my friend Kelly. She's in the documentary um in  
8:038 minutes, 3 secondsCosta Rica and she was just telling me about this  UFO photo that was taken right by where she lived  
8:108 minutes, 10 secondsand it was so interesting and Adam is my husband  and he's always been really really enthusiastic  
8:168 minutes, 16 secondsabout UFOs and UAPs. So I told him this would  be a cool project to do to make a documentary.  
8:228 minutes, 22 secondsUm we've both worked in production for about 20  years. Adam is a commercial editor by trade. Um,  
8:298 minutes, 29 secondsbut he's been wanting to do his own things, too.  And then everything just kind of fell in line. So,  
8:348 minutes, 34 secondsit was very fortuitous. That's pretty cool. It's  all in the timing, right? And what a what a time  
8:408 minutes, 40 secondsto make a UFO documentary. My god, it's like this.  Suzanne and I have been studying these phenomena,  
8:478 minutes, 47 secondsthis topic for gosh uh half our lives, if not  more. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And now is the time  
8:548 minutes, 54 secondswhere we're like, finally, people are listening  to [laughter] us, you know? We're no longer the   tin foil hatters, you know, screaming from the  roof. Maybe we are a little bit. I don't know.  
9:039 minutes, 3 secondsMaybe a little bit. We're still Yeah, you got to  keep You got to keep that tin foil hat, you know,   back in the closet somewhere. Hey, you never  know. Truth is stranger than fiction. You may  
9:129 minutes, 12 secondsalways [laughter] right. Yeah. Um, now I'm going  to let Suzanne take over in a minute, but I do  
9:209 minutes, 20 secondswant to touch on kind of whose eyes we see the  documentary through. Now, obviously, you know,  
9:289 minutes, 28 secondsyou guys are the producers, the directors, like  this is your vision, but for us watching this  
Chapter 3: Esteban Carranza and the Investigation
9:349 minutes, 34 secondsdocumentary, we're seeing it through the eyes of  a gentle name, a gentleman named Estabban. Um,  
9:399 minutes, 39 secondswhich is really cool that you found kind of a  local researcher to be our window into Costa Rica,  
9:459 minutes, 45 secondsinto this world. So, um, what how did that all  happen? How'd you meet Estabbon? like what is his  
9:529 minutes, 52 secondsconnection to all? Well, after after Megan came  home from that trip and we decided to, you know,  
9:579 minutes, 57 secondstake a shot at it, we started reaching out to  people and sending out a couple emails to see uh  
10:0310 minutes, 3 secondswhat kind of feedback we could get. And we ended  up getting in contact with Michael Strickland.  
10:1010 minutes, 10 secondsMichael Strickland is also in the documentary.  He's a drum scan technician uh and an amazing  
10:1610 minutes, 16 secondsphotographer in his own right. Uh, and he, you  know, we we just kind of found him on the internet  
10:2210 minutes, 22 secondsand we said, "Hey, are you the guy that took uh  did the scan of the Cotay photo?" And he said,   "Yes, I am." And through Michael, he's like, "You  really should talk to Estabbon." So, he uh sent  
10:3310 minutes, 33 secondsEstabbon an email for us. And then he responded  and uh we we made a call to him and he answered  
10:4010 minutes, 40 secondsthe phone like he was expecting that call all  along. And uh so Estabbon's been a a great partner  
10:4810 minutes, 48 secondsin all of this. He's a lawyer by day and a UFO  researcher by night. Um and he found the photo,  
10:5910 minutes, 59 secondshe was shown the photo from his uncle at an early  age, just a a picture of the negative. Um, so  
11:0711 minutes, 7 secondsafter his uncle had passed away, his aunt decided  that Estabbon should be the person to get his his  
11:1511 minutes, 15 secondstrunch of UFO researcher material. And so he was  going through it expecting to see the photo that  
11:2211 minutes, 22 secondshe saw when he was a kid, uh, and ended up coming  across an actual contact copy of the negative,  
11:3011 minutes, 30 secondsum, which is pretty pretty rare. So he uh he got  a hold of this photo and it really kicked off  
11:4011 minutes, 40 secondshis own journey into the subject, right? He was  fascinated by it and was like amazed and uh really  
11:5011 minutes, 50 secondskind of used that to like kind of inform some of  his research and he he really went deep on the  
11:5711 minutes, 57 secondstopic. Um, but like I said, he's a he's a lawyer  by day. So, he's a very analytical mind and he's  
12:0412 minutes, 4 secondsa consmate professional and he's very smart and  but he's also very open to, you know, different  
12:1112 minutes, 11 secondsideas and um different possibilities. So, he was  an amazing tour guide, if you will. He really did  
12:1912 minutes, 19 secondsopen uh the window for us and let us see the  all the things that this photo had to offer.  
Chapter 4: Sergio Loaiza and His UFO Experiences
12:2812 minutes, 28 secondsRight. Which we'll definitely get into because  I mean it's not just the photo. The story that  
12:3212 minutes, 32 secondsunravels in your documentary is so much more  so much more powerful as well. And uh Suzanne,  
12:4012 minutes, 40 secondswe got a lawyer by day, UFO researcher by night.  Does that sound familiar? Sounds very familiar to  
12:4512 minutes, 45 secondsme. Yeah. Yep. Suzanne also is a former attorney  and UFO researcher by night. So I think she had a  
12:5312 minutes, 53 secondsclose connection to Estabot as well in this, but  [laughter] see things quite easily for sure. But  
13:0113 minutes, 1 secondyeah, Suzanne, I'll let you take it from here.  Yeah, and Estabbon is fascinating in of himself,  
13:0613 minutes, 6 secondsbut I am taken with Sergio. I would love now.  Sergio is the ctographer who was just in the  
13:1313 minutes, 13 secondsplane doing his thing um in 1971 and but a very  young man at 29 years old and he has had other  
13:2513 minutes, 25 secondsexperiences as well. But I would love for you to  tell our listeners sort of this how this happened  
13:3113 minutes, 31 secondsfrom Sergio's perspective. Yeah, he uh he was on  the plane when he took it. he was responsible for  
13:4213 minutes, 42 secondsum making these maps. Uh he is such a an amazing  person and he's got such a beautiful kind,  
13:5013 minutes, 50 secondswelcoming, loving soul and uh Megan uh when we  first started this project started, you know,  
13:5713 minutes, 57 secondstexting back and forth with him and uh neither  we don't speak Spanish and Sergio doesn't speak  
14:0414 minutes, 4 secondsEnglish, but through the power of modern  technology, uh they were able to communicate  
14:0814 minutes, 8 secondsthrough uh translation apps and they became the  best of friends. They really uh really got to know  
14:1514 minutes, 15 secondseach other really well and he really welcomed us  in as as part of the the Cotay family if you will.  
14:2314 minutes, 23 secondsUm yeah and um Sergy so in our documentary and  we kind of go about once an experiencer always  
14:3214 minutes, 32 secondsan experiencer when people start to see phenomena  they tend to keep seeing it um for unknown reasons  
14:3814 minutes, 38 secondsor maybe they just kind of open up to it. And  so Sergio has seen phenomenon his entire life  
14:4414 minutes, 44 secondsever since he was a young boy and his parents have  also seen it too. So it's very open in his family.  
14:5214 minutes, 52 secondsAnd then he still a couple times a week if you're  on his WhatsApp or some of his some of the other  
14:5814 minutes, 58 secondsgroups he's involved in. Um he takes pictures all  the time of little things he sees like the tic tac  
15:0515 minutes, 5 secondsones and um other things out in the sky. Yeah,  they they really uh they really took to Sergio  
15:1315 minutes, 13 secondsand they present themselves to him quite often.  When he was on the plane, he didn't see them,  
15:1815 minutes, 18 secondsbut he's as she mentioned, he's been a lifelong  experiencer. So, uh from I think 5 years old, he  
15:2515 minutes, 25 secondsuh went out and saw some with his his parents and  his brothers and uh I think they've been a major  
15:3315 minutes, 33 secondspart of his life ever since. And [clears throat]  he grew up in the jungle, the rural jungle. So,   it's not like he was growing up in New York City  where he had aircraft flying over constantly. I  
15:4315 minutes, 43 secondsmean, it was really rare to see, let alone a  UFO and also anything out in the jungles of  
15:4915 minutes, 49 secondsCosta Rica in the 50s. Right. Right. I think even  in the film he mentions like the only aircraft  
15:5515 minutes, 55 secondshe'd ever seen was like a medical helicopter or  something like that. That Yeah. And you know,  
16:0016 minutesthis idea of like phenomena following a lineage or  whatnot is fascinating, you know. Uh Suzanne and I  
16:0816 minutes, 8 secondshave both had UFO uh sightings, encounters in our  lives. Um and it does kind of open something up,  
16:1616 minutes, 16 secondsyou know, and it's so interesting with Sergio,  like we think of like the Cotay photo being the   pivotal experience of his life, yet this has been  going on since he was a kid. Like that was kind  
Chapter 5: Frame 300 and the 13-Second Mystery
16:2716 minutes, 27 secondsof like the the halfway point was the Cotay  and and the the irony [clears throat] that no  
16:3216 minutes, 32 secondsone actually saw that craft, you know. Um, I do  want to ask about that in a little bit, too. Uh,  
16:3916 minutes, 39 secondsbut to go back to the, um, I guess the photo  itself, something that really stood out to Suzanne  
16:4616 minutes, 46 secondsand I was this idea of the frames that they would  take, you know, when they would do the cgraphy  
16:5316 minutes, 53 secondsand map these things. And, um, frame 300 is kind  of the the buzz word here. Yeah. 399, not 301.  
17:0317 minutes, 3 secondsExactly. It just happens to be this one frame um  where this object was seen, not the one before or  
17:1017 minutes, 10 secondsafter as Suzanne said. Um, now I'd love to get an  idea of like how much time in your research uh is  
17:1917 minutes, 19 secondsbetween each of these frames where they would take  the photograph and to you guys what does that kind  
17:2517 minutes, 25 secondsof mean for like I guess the speed of what this  object could have been or do you have any thoughts  
17:3217 minutes, 32 secondsor theories on that? Let's break that down a  [laughter] little bit. The frame I guess. Yeah,   I mean it it opens up a world of possibilities and  that's one of the most intriguing things about it  
17:4117 minutes, 41 secondsis that it is only on this one frame. Um it  is a very specialized camera. It is mounted  
17:5117 minutes, 51 secondsto the bottom of a plane. So they flying on a  flight line uh and about approximately every 13  
17:5817 minutes, 58 secondsseconds the c once they kind of set it up and  and find their navigation they it flies along  
18:0518 minutes, 5 secondsand every 13 seconds it takes a picture from  underneath to map the different landscapes. Um,  
18:1118 minutes, 11 secondsso the idea that it's only on one frame gives us,  you know, I believe that it had some movement to  
18:1718 minutes, 17 secondsit or there's so many possibilities. It could be  that it's really fast or it could be that it's  
18:2518 minutes, 25 secondspopping in and out of dimensions or it came  out of the water for just a split second or  
18:3318 minutes, 33 secondsit's bending spaceime around it so that you can  only see it from a certain angle. Um, so there's,  
18:4018 minutes, 40 secondsyou know, there there is a world of possibilities  for why it's only on on that particular frame,  
18:4818 minutes, 48 secondsbut it's on that frame. And so, you know, it's  it's quite remarkable uh that it was able to  
18:5818 minutes, 58 secondscapture that image in the first place. And so, you  know, it then then the rest is up for for debate  
19:0519 minutes, 5 secondsto be honest with you. Like we encourage people  to analyze it and think about it and come up with  
19:1219 minutes, 12 secondstheir own ideas because there's there's so many  options there and you know it's we don't know what  
19:1919 minutes, 19 secondsum what it really means because we can only  make guesses. we can only have assumptions. And  
19:2719 minutes, 27 secondsum I think that's part of the intrigue of  this photo is that like it it opens a book,  
19:3419 minutes, 34 secondsbut it doesn't close it, you know, and it really  really gives you the chance to um kind of let your  
Chapter 6: Lake Cote, USOs, and the Size of the Object
19:4119 minutes, 41 secondsimagination run with it and see where you go with  it. Absolutely. you know, the kind of tricksterish  
19:4819 minutes, 48 secondsnature of these phenomena, it it makes sense to  me that it'd be like, I'm gonna just show up at  
19:5419 minutes, 54 secondsframe 300, you know, [laughter] like I'm not  going to let them have any preconceived notion  
20:0120 minutes, 1 secondof what happened before or after that. Yeah.  [laughter] Do you have a sense, by the way,  
20:0620 minutes, 6 secondsof whether you think it was coming out of or  returning to the water? My first impression was  
20:1420 minutes, 14 secondsthat's that's what was happening based on nothing  of course but [laughter] you know my radar. I  
20:1920 minutes, 19 secondswondered if Sergio had any opinion about that. Um  Sergio didn't really say that specifically but we  
20:2820 minutes, 28 secondshave been told by other locals in Costa Rica that  there is a ship that lives in Lago and kind kind  
20:3620 minutes, 36 secondsof comes in and out. So obviously unverified. I  would love to get them to sign a release and be  
20:4120 minutes, 41 secondsin our next movie [laughter] if we can somehow  arrange that. Um, but that is and I think too  
20:4820 minutes, 48 secondsthat's kind of what people are now talking about  is the underwater phenomenon with the phenomena,  
20:5420 minutes, 54 secondsright? Um, yeah. And and Lake Cot, Lago de  Cot is this sort of mystical place, right?  
21:0321 minutes, 3 secondsIt's long been regarded by the local tribes as a  place where the gods live. Uh so there's this kind  
21:1021 minutes, 10 secondsof oral tradition in Costa Rica that um uh shows  reverence to the lake as a as a special place. Um  
21:1921 minutes, 19 secondsit's a crater lake. Um it's not crazy deep, but it  goes to about like 59 60 ft in the middle there.  
21:2821 minutes, 28 secondsUm and so you know, is there something in there?  I don't know. But it's an amazing place to be.  
21:3521 minutes, 35 secondsAnd when you're at the lake, we went to the lake  uh to film in the early morning and we got there  
21:4121 minutes, 41 secondsat like 4 a.m. and we kind of saw the sun rise  and you know by the end of it like we were just  
21:4921 minutes, 49 secondshaving like this overwhelming emotional sensation  of really being in a special place. So it really  
21:5621 minutes, 56 secondsgives off this energy um that truly is something  remarkable. Yeah. beautiful that too because here  
22:0422 minutes, 4 secondsin Santa Fe it's a little bit of the same the  same vibe. Well, I'm curious too. Do you have  
22:1122 minutes, 11 secondsany thoughts on what the size of this thing was? I  know that there are aerodynamics involved and that  
22:1722 minutes, 17 secondsmakes it hard, but any thoughts on size? Well,  the the film negative is 23x 23 cm. It's huge. So,  
22:2922 minutes, 29 secondsit's essentially 9 in by 9 in. um which is much  bigger than you know a standard 35 millimeter  
22:3622 minutes, 36 secondsfilm or even IMAX. When you go to these big IMAX  theaters, you're looking at a film negative that's  
22:4422 minutes, 44 secondslike 2 and a halfish inches and it's the tiniest  spec on the negative. Um so but the scale of the  
22:5122 minutes, 51 secondsthe photo is one in 20,000. And so if you do the  math on that, the the disc itself is uh 42 cm,  
23:0223 minutes, 2 secondswhich if you do the math tells us that at  ground level that's 84 meters in diameter,  
23:0823 minutes, 8 secondswhich is quite large, almost 300 feet, something  like that. Wow. So that's that's really big. But  
23:1623 minutes, 16 secondsthere's no way to tell really how high it was in  the sky, right? It's under It's under the plane  
23:2423 minutes, 24 secondswhich was flying at 10,000 ft. Uh so we know that  but you know there's no real way to tell exactly  
23:3223 minutes, 32 secondshow high it was in the sky. So that could it can  vary in size drastically. But if it were at ground  
23:4123 minutes, 41 secondslevel that's that's 84 meters which is a very big  ship. Yeah. Um, so yeah, that that's what we do  
23:5123 minutes, 51 secondsknow about it and the rest is kind of um the rest  is kind of guesswork. We've seen, you know, since  
23:5823 minutes, 58 secondswe've made this documentary, a lot of people are  like reaching out and saying like, "Oh, hey, I've  
24:0324 minutes, 3 secondsdone this research and I've done this research  and they're analyzing shadows and angles." And  
24:0924 minutes, 9 secondsI think I watched that video after I watched your  documentary. There is a good video analysis where  
24:1524 minutes, 15 secondsthe um the glint on the object is analyzed sort  of in a 3D study using basically Google maps. And  
24:2524 minutes, 25 secondsspeaking of Google maps, the fact that this got  captured and that no one saw it in real time is a  
24:3224 minutes, 32 secondsfascinating thing. It it makes me want to help  somebody go through like the Google map data.  
24:3824 minutes, 38 secondsthrow some AI in there and let's see what we're  capturing, you know, every day, sort of like the  
24:4424 minutes, 44 secondsDisclosure Foundation is about to do with the NASA  archives. Let's see what we have. I I suspect we  
24:5024 minutes, 50 secondshave things much like this. Yeah, we didn't use  any AI in the film. It's all very analog and very  
24:5724 minutes, 57 secondsreal. Uh, but I did just out of curiosity put the  high resolution scan into uh an AI generator and  
Chapter 7: Scientific Analysis of the Cote Photo
25:0625 minutes, 6 secondsI didn't ask the AI to do anything. I just put  the image in and hit render and it took the disc  
25:1425 minutes, 14 secondsand it spun it around and it turned it right into  a UFO and had it fly right off. So like AI knows  
25:2025 minutes, 20 secondswhat's up. [laughter] Yeah. The good and the bad.  For sure. For sure. [laughter] Yeah. And you know,  
25:2725 minutes, 27 secondseven in your film, you know, you have the analyst  who who did the the highest resolution possible,  
25:3425 minutes, 34 secondsand I love how in-depth he gets with like,  you know, here's where the sun was coming in   from the land, and it meets up with where it  reflects off of the metal of the object. So,  
25:4425 minutes, 44 secondsthis is an authentic object. It isn't like an  artifact of the the camera or or the film. And  
25:4925 minutes, 49 secondsI love how in-depth that got. And it truly does  show like this was there. This went over the water  
25:5725 minutes, 57 secondspresumably towards the land or the opposite into  the water. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um it's a real thing.  
26:0326 minutes, 3 secondsIt is an object. It's a real thing. Exactly.  In fact, came to that conclusion with Richard  
26:0926 minutes, 9 secondsHaynes as well. Oh yeah. Tried to vet it and the  conclusion was it was anomalous. It was a physical  
26:1726 minutes, 17 secondsobject and the glint was real. That's right. Yeah.  Can you guys talk a little about that? you know,  
26:2326 minutes, 23 secondsin terms of Hannes and Valet and kind of  what role they played in the film. Yeah,  
26:2826 minutes, 28 secondsthey they were some of the original researchers of  the photo. Um, so it it first came to prominence  
26:3626 minutes, 36 secondsbecause of a a group uh the Vilch brothers,  which were pioneers in ufology in Costa Rica,  
26:4326 minutes, 43 secondsmanaged to get a copy of the photo. Nobody really  knows how. So interesting. I know. How do How do   we think that happened exactly? [laughter] You  know, your guess is as good as mine. I have a  
26:5226 minutes, 52 secondsbetter guess about how Estabbon got it, but uh how  the Vilch brothers maybe they just asked for it. I  
26:5826 minutes, 58 secondsyou know that they're a very culture and you know  like it's you know they're very forthcoming. So  
27:0627 minutes, 6 secondsif they went to the uh National Geographic  Institute of Costa Rica and asked for it,  
27:1127 minutes, 11 secondsit's very possible that they just, you know,  gave them a copy of the photo. Mhm. Um but from  
27:1727 minutes, 17 secondsthere they got it to Jay Ellen Heinik and who  is an amazing research who's historically one  
27:2427 minutes, 24 secondsof the one of the best researchers of the topic  and later uh Richard Haynes and Jackal did an  
27:3227 minutes, 32 secondsin-depth analysis on it and they actually did two  reports on it um and you know they don't claim it  
27:3927 minutes, 39 secondsto be you know extraterrestrial but they do claim  that it's an actual physical 3D 3D object, a craft  
27:4627 minutes, 46 secondsthat's that's captured on this photo and uh you  know they did you know these guys are highly  
27:5327 minutes, 53 secondsintelligent. They're so smart the most brilliant  minds arguably of you know the last five decades.  
27:5927 minutes, 59 secondsUh Dr. Valle is still alive too. He's in his 90s  and we saw him from afar at contact in the desert  
28:0528 minutes, 5 secondsand it's just amazing to be in his presence. And  then Michael Strickland too um the analyst who  
28:1228 minutes, 12 secondsdrum scanned our photo. He is an artist but he  also has this engineering mind which is such a  
28:1828 minutes, 18 secondsunique combination that he can really you know do  the math and go through the processes and say why  
28:2528 minutes, 25 secondssomething is real. Um yeah he he in his earlier  life he wanted to be an aeronautical engineer. So  
28:3428 minutes, 34 secondshe was really he was kind of going down that path  anyway, but he fell in love with music and art and  
28:4028 minutes, 40 secondshe's this amazing photographer and so he ended up  getting a drum scanner which is uh a H Highleberg  
28:4828 minutes, 48 secondstango drum scanner which is the highest rep best  technology to replicate analog to digital. So,  
28:5728 minutes, 57 secondsum, he became sort of an expert on that because  he wanted to make high-res archival copies of his  
29:0529 minutes, 5 secondsown 8x10 photographs that he was taking using  oldw world photographic techniques. And so,  
29:1129 minutes, 11 secondsthis guy's like super smart. Like, he is really,  really intelligent and one of the nicest people.  
Chapter 8: Is Costa Rica a UFO Hotspot?
29:1729 minutes, 17 secondsAnd like, we've had such a great experience with  with everybody involved. That's awesome. Hey,  
29:2329 minutes, 23 secondswe need more people like that looking at this UFO  stuff for sure. That's awesome. Uh Suzanne, I'll  
29:2929 minutes, 29 secondslet you take it from here. Well, do you think that  Lake Cotay might be a bit of a hot spot? You know,  
29:3629 minutes, 36 secondsI I'm absolutely convinced that some areas are.  I think I'm in a hot spot. Um I think Ryan has  
29:4229 minutes, 42 secondsbeen in a hot spot before. Um, when I with all the  things that have gone on with Sergio and Estabban  
29:5029 minutes, 50 secondsand then all of this as well and the cultures  openness on the topic, it just makes me wonder,  
29:5829 minutes, 58 secondsare they a hot spot? What are your thoughts? Yeah,  there this isn't the only UFO photo taken in Costa  
30:0530 minutes, 5 secondsRica. You know, people have been seeing them  there for years. It's um it's such a beautifully  
30:1230 minutes, 12 secondsdiverse place and ecologically it's one of  the most diverse places on the planet, right?  
30:1830 minutes, 18 secondsSo like it's surrounded by water and um volcanoes,  the minerals and the volcanoes and the it's it's  
30:2630 minutes, 26 secondssuch a place of beautiful natural beauty that like  Yeah, I imagine that if you were coming from the  
30:3530 minutes, 35 secondsfar reaches of the universe, you're going to look  for a place that has [clears throat] like this  
30:4030 minutes, 40 secondsthat that is truly the most diverse place on the  planet, you know, poundfor-pound. And um so I do  
30:4730 minutes, 47 secondsthink that's a hot spot. We're in Michigan and um  I I do believe that Michigan's a hot spot as well,  
30:5430 minutes, 54 secondswhich has always kind of uh made me feel a close  connection to the topic. I was at MUON um a  
31:0231 minutes, 2 secondsMUON conference just recently and there was this  amazing presentation about um multiple sightings  
31:1031 minutes, 10 secondsover the course of a day and that was seen all  over the state from the west side to the east side  
31:1731 minutes, 17 secondsum and was actually caught on radar data. So  I do think there are places in the world where  
31:2431 minutes, 24 secondsum you know some of these phenomenon happen more  readily and and you know Latin America all over  
31:3331 minutes, 33 secondsLatin America there's a lot of tradition with  with the phenomenon you know they got some of  
31:3931 minutes, 39 secondsthe greatest pyramids in the world you know we got  to go to Chichinita on a family vacation once and  
31:4431 minutes, 44 secondsyou stand there and you're in just in awe of these  amazing these places in Costa Rica also doesn't  
31:5031 minutes, 50 secondshave a military. So there is no, you know, body  trying to keep there's no clan. Yeah. Yeah. No, we  
31:5931 minutes, 59 secondshave Did they ever take a a public position, the  the Costa Rican government on this photo or what  
32:0632 minutes, 6 secondsit might be? Well, they they certified a copy of  the photo. They're saying it's an authentic image.  
32:1132 minutes, 11 secondsUm, like she said, there's no military there. So,  you know, there isn't the same kind of classify it  
32:2032 minutes, 20 secondsfor national security reasons that, you know,  we have here in the United States. Um, and it  
32:2632 minutes, 26 secondsit's become really kind of a source of national  pride for Costa Ricans. Like, it's it's part of  
32:3332 minutes, 33 secondsthe lore there. Like, everybody knows about it.  Uh, everybody has a story about it. everybody  
32:3932 minutes, 39 secondskind of remembers, you know, like, oh, my uncle  showed me that or, you know, my dad was talking  
32:4532 minutes, 45 secondsabout that or my mom had this experience. There's  so many people there that are really kind of in  
32:5132 minutes, 51 secondstune with it and also in tune with the natural  environment that they live in. And nowadays,  
32:5832 minutes, 58 secondstoo, I think they're just very laidback about  it. Like, oh yeah, like obviously [laughter] it  
33:0333 minutes, 3 secondshappens. It much South America is, isn't it? much  better perspective and acceptance around it. Does  
33:1233 minutes, 12 secondsanybody Is anybody else shocked that the Americans  didn't show up and shoot it down? [laughter]
33:2033 minutes, 20 secondsThat's we we shoot first ask questions. So  bad. [laughter] Oh man. I will say this though,  
33:2833 minutes, 28 secondsAdam. Um Michigan is a hot spot. I I was speaking  at an event in Hton Lake, Michigan actually and we  
33:3633 minutes, 36 secondswent out for a skywatch and we lo and behold saw  like four orbs up there. They weren't satellites,  
33:4333 minutes, 43 secondsthey weren't drones. They were right over  the lake. Again, the whole water thing. Um,  
33:4833 minutes, 48 secondsso for sure. And then obviously you guys are  known for the whole swamp gas explanation from  
33:5533 minutes, 55 secondsuh Mr. Mr. Heinik. So you got that too. So  yeah, I think all all three of us in these  
34:0234 minutes, 2 secondsrectangles you see here on screen have been  in hot spots for sure. Uh in making this film,  
34:0834 minutes, 8 secondsuh I've been talking to a lot of you know friends  and you know people I've come across and and my  
34:1634 minutes, 16 secondsworld and my friend Rob told me about his own  experience at H Hotton Lake. And then he showed  
34:2234 minutes, 22 secondsme the most amazing photo [laughter] and video  of a a object that both him and his daughter saw  
34:3134 minutes, 31 secondsthere. And um so you know, we're as we kind  of develop our next couple of documentaries,  
34:3834 minutes, 38 secondsthat's that's one of the things we might take a  look at is sort of the uh USO aspects. and and uh  
34:4634 minutes, 46 secondswe had another friend who took some amazing photos  over Lake Superior of uh UFOs and formation. So,  
34:5634 minutes, 56 secondsum we're really there's the potential for us to  make an amazing uh Michigan documentary. And so,  
35:0435 minutes, 4 secondsum that's one of the things we're kind of  exploring. I love it. You got the Detroit Lions   and you got the UFOs. [laughter] See, stranger  things have happened. The Lions have started  
35:1435 minutes, 14 secondswinning. anymore. So true. So true. Yeah, we'll  probably get full disclosure before the Lions win  
35:2235 minutes, 22 secondsa Super Bowl. Oh man. Yeah, you're breaking my  dad's heart. [laughter] He's a huge Lions fan.   But Suzanne, go ahead. Oh, well, I'm just again  fascinated with Sergio. He has such a good feel  
35:3335 minutes, 33 secondsto him and I know that he's had all these other  experiences. Did the fact that he has had the so  
35:3935 minutes, 39 secondsmany experiences affect how you interacted with  him in this project? So, we let Sergio lead the  
35:4835 minutes, 48 secondsconversation. We didn't really know what he  we came in with no script. Um, we, you know,  
35:5535 minutes, 55 secondswe knew about the photo and I had been talking to  him online, but we also just came in and wanted to  
36:0236 minutes, 2 secondssee where he brought the story. um and just kind  of let him go. And I mean he he says it himself  
36:0936 minutes, 9 secondsit's time for him to start telling his stories and  he has just led the most incredible life. He's,  
36:1536 minutes, 15 secondsyou know, so accomplished, so smart, so wonderful.  His family is wonderful and as Estan says,  
36:2236 minutes, 22 secondsevery talk with Sergio is a lesson. Every,  you know, you you just let him go. I love  
36:2836 minutes, 28 secondsthat. Yeah. and [clears throat] we really um we  really got to spend some time with him. Uh and  
36:3636 minutes, 36 secondshe has the most like she said, he has the most  amazing stories. But it wasn't just always when   the cameras were rolling either. Like [laughter]  you know, like we got done interviewing and then  
36:4636 minutes, 46 secondshe insisted that we stay around and have some  coffee and break bread with him. And uh again,  
36:5136 minutes, 51 secondswe don't speak Spanish, so we had we had a a crew  there with us and they would help translate and we   had just this most amazing conversation. And at  the end of it, I was like, I wish we could have  
37:0137 minutes, 1 secondcaught that on camera as [laughter] well. But  he is just so kind and loving and like when you  
37:0737 minutes, 7 secondswhen you meet him in person, you just like there  he he he you really feel like he's telling you  
37:1637 minutes, 16 secondshis truth and he's being completely honest with  you. So whether you choose to believe him or not,  
37:2137 minutes, 21 secondshe's really genuine and forthcoming in his own  experiences. And you don't have to believe him,  
37:2837 minutes, 28 secondsbut he's telling you anyway because he thinks  that uh this phenomenon should be shared with  
37:3437 minutes, 34 secondsthe world and it shouldn't be um you know just  something classified for a select few people in  
37:4137 minutes, 41 secondsthe government. He really wanted to to share some  of the lessons he learned. And those aren't just  
37:4637 minutes, 46 secondsUFO lessons, they're life lessons. Well, that  really comes through in your film that he h has  
37:5337 minutes, 53 secondssuch an open heart about this, which I do think  has some relationship to who sees what. You have  
38:0238 minutes, 2 secondsto, I think, be in a right kind of a heart  place in order for this to even happen. Um,  
38:0838 minutes, 8 secondsso he sure does feel like he's in the right  place. He seems very kind and open. Yeah.  
38:1438 minutes, 14 secondsAnd I remember the first time I met him, he was  saying how you can only wear one pair of shoes at  
38:2038 minutes, 20 secondsa time. You can only eat one meal at a time. So  just, you know, don't be greedy and just live a  
38:2738 minutes, 27 secondsvery peaceful humble life. You know, humble like  like, you know, that's being satisfied within your  
38:3538 minutes, 35 secondsown self. Just a beautiful way to live. You and  you only get frame 300. [laughter] Don't be 299,  
38:4638 minutes, 46 secondsnot 301. What if the world is far stranger than  we've been led to believe? This September 12th,  
Chapter 9: Anomacon 2026 / Show Break
38:5638 minutes, 56 secondsstep into the virtual world of Anomicon 2026.  The premier online conference exploring UFOs,  
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39:1839 minutes, 18 secondsand featuring legendary paranormal broadcaster Jim  Harold. Anomicon 2026 brings together researchers,  
39:2539 minutes, 25 secondsjournalists, filmmakers, [music] authors,  experiencers, and investigators from all  
39:3139 minutes, 31 secondsaround the world. And best thing about  Anomicon, there's no travel, no hotels,  
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40:0940 minutes, 9 secondssee you there September 12th. And remember, The  Anomalous is waiting for you at Anomicon 2026.
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41:2241 minutes, 22 secondstalk here, guys. Thank you for listening and  supporting us for almost 10 years. And thank  
41:2941 minutes, 29 secondsyou for supporting Independent Content, and I hope  you'll continue to join me somewhere in the skies.
41:3941 minutes, 39 secondsSo, yeah, Suzanne and I, that's why we love the  topic of UFOs because it does teach you more  
41:4441 minutes, 44 secondsabout the world. Um, but I think ultimately more  than anything, it teaches you more about yourself.  
Chapter 10: Experiencers and Strange Synchronicities
41:5041 minutes, 50 secondsyou know, for us this topic, while it might be  theoretically about aliens or, you know, something  
41:5741 minutes, 57 secondselse out there, it always kind of mirrors back to  us and that's clearly how this topic has affected  
42:0342 minutes, 3 secondsSergio and and kind of the knowledge he would  impart. Um, I didn't have this question written  
42:0942 minutes, 9 secondsdown, Suzanne, but if you don't mind me asking,  we actually we didn't um write down here about the  
42:1642 minutes, 16 secondsother experiencers you have in the film as well.  I think they really brought a lot more humanity to  
42:2242 minutes, 22 secondsall of this, too. Could you maybe tell us a little  about the other experiencers that you feature in  
42:2742 minutes, 27 secondsthe film? Yeah. So, Emmy, um, Emmy is an Italian  and her husband David is also Italian. They met in  
42:3642 minutes, 36 secondsCosta Rica. Um, but she kind of recounts uh David  doesn't do interviews, so she kind of relayed his  
42:4542 minutes, 45 secondsexperience to us. Um, but he had his own abduction  in 1971 where he was he believes he was taken to  
42:5442 minutes, 54 secondsCosta Rica. So, uh, on a later trip there, he,  you know, was like, "I've seen this road. I've  
43:0243 minutes, 2 secondsseen this cow. I've been to this lake." And like a  lot of the things kind of clicked and he was like,  
43:0643 minutes, 6 seconds"Well, this was part of my abduction in 1971."  and him and Emmy, his wife, uh, ended up opening  
43:1543 minutes, 15 secondsa restaurant in Noeo Arinal, which is, you know, a  stones throw away from Lake Cot. And it's an alien  
43:2243 minutes, 22 secondsthemed restaurant. And it's it's some of the best  Italian food you'll ever have. And, uh, but yeah,  
43:2943 minutes, 29 secondsthey really kind of opened this restaurant  to to dedicate it to his cosmic brothers. Um,  
43:3643 minutes, 36 secondsand so yeah, they have amazing stories and and  she tells us uh a story about uh people coming  
43:4443 minutes, 44 secondsin there and sharing vibrations with David and  she thinks that they're not of this world. And  
43:5143 minutes, 51 secondsit's such an amazing story. Um, and Kelly, our  friend, uh, that originally told us about this  
43:5843 minutes, 58 secondsphoto, is is just this very kind of eccentric  person. She describes herself as the storm, you  
44:0644 minutes, 6 secondsknow, [laughter] like the calm is where nothing  happens. The storm is where she lives. She was  
44:1444 minutes, 14 secondslike my spirit and [laughter] in this documentary,  I swear. Um, but yeah, she had her she had her own  
44:2044 minutes, 20 secondsexperience of seeing a desk and that's kind of  she relayed that to Megan and that's really kind   of what brought us into it. It wasn't just the  photo. It was the experiencers that have seen  
44:3144 minutes, 31 secondsthings around the lake and and really we find that  to be the more fascinating part of all this is is  
44:3844 minutes, 38 secondsthose stories because you know the photo has been  here for a long time and people have researched  
44:4444 minutes, 44 secondsit and you know greater minds than us have  researched it and so we really um you know took  
44:5144 minutes, 51 secondscare to listen to other people's stories about it  and listen to their own experiences and they're  
44:5744 minutes, 57 secondstruly remarkable. Yeah, she's very special. She's  very intuitive. She's very So, you know, and as  
45:0545 minutes, 5 secondsEstabbon and Sergio say, there are no coincidences  in life. So, I don't, you know, I don't know why  
45:1245 minutes, 12 secondsshe brought that photo into our attention or what,  you know, maybe mystical things were behind it,  
45:1845 minutes, 18 secondsbut she's definitely a channel for for something  for something. [laughter] It it does seem,  
45:2645 minutes, 26 secondsyou know, kind of synchronistic a lot of the ways  that you uh this story unraveled. Like you can  
45:3345 minutes, 33 secondstake the photo kind of as a prime example. Like  you look at just the craft and you're like, "Okay,   really interesting." But then you zoom back and  then you see the land and you're like, "Holy crap,  
45:4345 minutes, 43 secondsthat thing's huge." Um, and then you keep zooming  back and you know, I mean that more, I guess,  
45:4945 minutes, 49 secondsexistentially or or whatnot. Um, and you get the  fuller picture of Cotay Lake and then you know  
45:5645 minutes, 56 secondswhat this could be and the history of activity  around the area and then all the different   experiencers. I love the more you zoom back the  clearer a picture you get of all of it, not just  
46:0746 minutes, 7 secondsthe photo and you guys do such a good job with  that. So yeah. Yeah. Um, a lot of synchronicity  
46:1346 minutes, 13 secondsseems seem to have fell in line for this uh this  to happen. I feel Yeah. so many. And in a way,  
46:1946 minutes, 19 secondsI kind of believe that um I don't know if we chose  it or it chose us. It feels more like it chose us.  
46:2646 minutes, 26 secondsAnd it really, you know, um when Megan went down  there and saw the photo for the first time and  
46:3346 minutes, 33 secondscame back and she's like, "Let's do this." And  then we called Michael and he's like, "It's me."   And then he got us in touch with Estabbon. He got  us in touch with Sergio and Leslie Kane because  
46:4346 minutes, 43 secondshe's longtime friends with Leslie Kane. That's  right. Time's besteller about UFOs and all the  
46:4946 minutes, 49 secondsthings just started kick clicking into place and  um you know even like Michael Strickland lives in  
46:5646 minutes, 56 secondsa town called Liberal Kansas. Liberal Kansas is  5 hours from anything. It is absolutely in the  
47:0447 minutes, 4 secondsmiddle of Kansas and there is not much around it.  But there they they have this little uh you know  
47:1347 minutes, 13 secondsuh space for uh Wizard of Oz. The Dorothy they  claim Dorothy from Wizard of Oz as as being from  
47:2147 minutes, 21 secondsliberal Kansas. Now that's a fictional story.  Um but they really kind of they kind of claim  
47:2747 minutes, 27 secondsit and say it's the birthplace of of of Dorothy.  And then they have this crazy air museum that  
47:3547 minutes, 35 secondshas all these planes in it and you know stuck in  the back of the of this giant warehouse with all  
47:4147 minutes, 41 secondsthese planes. You know we're talking a a town of a  couple thousand people but this this air hanger is  
47:4847 minutes, 48 secondsjust amazing. And then at the back of it there's  an Aero Commander plane which is they were like  
47:5447 minutes, 54 secondswhich is the plane that Sergio flew in. So it's  like yeah that's crazy. And you know, so we we  
48:0048 minutesended up shooting in that museum, but we did it in  like 15 20 minutes on our way to the airport. We   stopped in and we're like, "Can we shoot here? We  know this." And and then we're like, "Do you have  
48:1048 minutes, 10 secondsan Aero Commander?" And he's like, "Yeah, in the  back." [laughter] And so, yeah, it's it's been  
48:1548 minutes, 15 secondsWell, you know what's funny? Um, it's Sorry to  cut you off there. Um, I I felt a deep connection  
48:2148 minutes, 21 secondswhen that Stan was in New York meeting with Leslie  Kaine. Um cuz I knew the exact subblade platform  
48:2948 minutes, 29 secondsthat [laughter] he was on because I took that  thing to work every day for almost 12 years and  
48:3548 minutes, 35 secondsI was like, "Oh my god." Like I've stood literally  where Estabbot is standing right now. I when he   was like looking at the map and everything. Oh. So  like Yeah. It's just those little tiny intricacies  
48:4648 minutes, 46 secondsthat you know that that really resonates. So yeah,  that was my personal connection. My connection  
48:5248 minutes, 52 secondstoo. Yeah. Yeah. You think that would be that's  the thing I took away from your film. Wow. I bet  
48:5748 minutes, 57 secondson that Subway platform. Crazy. No, I love that.  That's [laughter] But yeah, it's it's connected to  
49:0449 minutes, 4 secondsa lot of different people in a lot of different  ways and it seems to it has this energy about   it that kind of pulls you in. Absolutely. More  weird connection to this. So, here in Santa Fe,  
49:1549 minutes, 15 secondsI have some lovely neighbors next door. We're just  the best of friends. And when I saw Liberal Kansas  
49:2149 minutes, 21 secondscome up in the documentary, my heart stopped and  I took a quick screen picture of it and sent it  
49:2849 minutes, 28 secondsto my neighbors and I said they are from liberal  Kansas and I said you have to know this imager.  
49:3649 minutes, 36 secondsHe says neighbor. Oh yeah. No, it's tiny tiny.  It's [laughter] tiny. What are the odds? What are  
49:4349 minutes, 43 secondsthe odds? I'm gonna mess up his name, but I think  it's Glenn Martin from Lheed Martin had a special  
49:5049 minutes, 50 secondsinterest in liberal Kansas. So, like there's this  uh they did a lot of early flights there and hence  
49:5749 minutes, 57 secondsthe aeronautical uh the the plane museum and  so you know it's like the small little town  
50:0450 minutes, 4 secondseven has connections to Loheed Martin which is so  crazy. Wild. Yeah. Yeah. which leads to Area 51,  
50:1250 minutes, 12 secondswhich exactly and off we go. And when you fly in  there, you know, it's one room. It's the smallest  
50:1850 minutes, 18 secondsairport I've ever been in. Like the same in Santa  Fe. Now, we do have a new trailer that's set up  
50:2450 minutes, 24 secondsthat someone cut a hole out of in the back so they  can shove the luggage through. [laughter] I guess  
50:3050 minutes, 30 secondstechnically we have two rooms, but sounds like  Roswell, too. Yeah, I like Roswell very much.  
50:3650 minutes, 36 secondsWhen we were shooting at the uh air museum, I  was like, "All right, we got to get back to to,   you know, the airport because we're going to miss  our flight. We don't want to miss our flight." And  
50:4450 minutes, 44 secondsthen we got there and there's like five people.  [laughter] You need about 30 minutes in Santa Fe  
50:5050 minutes, 50 secondsto get on your flight. Yeah. You just kind of walk  up to the plane and you know, it's it's kind of   cool. That that reminds me here's an impromptu  question for you guys. Um are there any other  
51:0151 minutes, 1 secondlike crazy weird stories during filming this? Like  did you run into any UFO people or any other UFO  
51:1051 minutes, 10 secondsthings happen like Yeah. I always love this behind  the scenes sort of for for me. Absolutely. Um,  
51:1651 minutes, 16 secondsyeah. You know, and and uh like besides all these  synchronicities that happen, you know, one of  
51:2351 minutes, 23 secondsthe things that we don't show in in the film or  really talk about is uh this crazy picture that we  
Chapter 11: High Strangeness During Filming
51:3051 minutes, 30 secondspulled, you know, we're pulled over to the side of  the road and Estabbon took a picture of a volcano  
51:3551 minutes, 35 secondsand then, you know, it it doesn't show anything,  but when you it's a live photo and when you you  
51:4451 minutes, 44 secondsknow, click on the photo and you watch you see  a happen. And then like so I brought it in to my  
51:4951 minutes, 49 secondsediting software and I slowed it down and I'm like  maybe that's something coming out of the volcano.  
51:5551 minutes, 55 secondsWe don't claim it to be but like all these little  things started happening and um yeah so we I you  
52:0352 minutes, 3 secondsknow I don't like to think I'm an experiencer in  the way that Sergio's an experiencer but I've seen   things in the sky that I can't explain. And uh  some of those things became more frequent for  
52:1452 minutes, 14 secondsme as this stuff was going on. You know, I have  a little cabin in the woods in northern Michigan  
52:2052 minutes, 20 secondsum in a very dark part of the sky and I've seen  a couple weird things happen up there that I just  
52:2952 minutes, 29 secondscouldn't explain during all this. I was like, you  know, maybe they were giving me a little a little  
52:3452 minutes, 34 secondstaste. Yep. You're getting your initiation, man.  It's happening. Welcome. Welcome to the club. For  
52:4052 minutes, 40 secondssure. [laughter] For sure. Um, Susia, go ahead.  Hey, Brian, could you pull the photo back up of   the course [clears throat] for me because I  have a question about it and you may not have  
52:5052 minutes, 50 secondsany information on this, but I am riveted by the  little circle at the top. Yeah. Yeah. What do we  
52:5752 minutes, 57 secondsthink this is? Again, that's one of those things  that um is up for debate really, but um you know,  
53:0853 minutes, 8 secondsI when you look at the photo, it isn't or the  the ship isn't exactly flat and it's kind of like  
53:1653 minutes, 16 secondsthat, which we've seen in other uh [clears throat]  examples of uh craft like the one that was um not  
53:2453 minutes, 24 secondsthe Tic Tac one. Uh the was it the gimbal. The  gimbal video. The gimbal. The gimbal video looks  
53:3253 minutes, 32 secondslike a disc, but it looks like it's canered to the  side. Um, and so yeah, we don't it doesn't appear  
53:3853 minutes, 38 secondsto really be at the very center of the disc.  Um, and you know, like when we first started,  
53:4753 minutes, 47 secondswe asked ourselves, is this like a port hole? Is  this something that people that somebody from the  
53:5453 minutes, 54 secondsinside view something from? Um, is it a shadow  from something even higher above it? You know,  
54:0254 minutes, 2 secondsthere's um I wish I had a better answer for  what it is, but you know, like uh when when  
54:1054 minutes, 10 secondsEstabbon scanned it, one of his intentions was to  kind of take a better look at what that was. And  
54:1754 minutes, 17 secondshis uncle thought there might have been somebody  even inside of that. So they wanted, you know,   when his uncle was doing his research, he uh,  you know, before he had drum scan technology,  
54:2854 minutes, 28 secondshe was used a microscope and then a camera to  really kind of get a better photo of the inside.  
54:3454 minutes, 34 secondsAnd I think that's one of the things that he was  most intrigued about is like what is this dark  
54:3954 minutes, 39 secondsspot there, right? Um, but yeah, there's there's  a world of possibilities. But to me, you know,  
54:4554 minutes, 45 secondsI work in advertising on my day job is making car  commercials. And so I look at a lot of sheet metal  
54:5354 minutes, 53 secondsand cars on film. And um for me, it looks like a  way that light is wrapping around a piece of sheet  
55:0455 minutes, 4 secondsmetal. I don't know if it's metal or some kind of  composite or, you know, obviously we can't do uh a  
55:1155 minutes, 11 secondsmaterial analysis of what the craft is, but it has  a very uh metallic looking um composite to me. So,  
55:2255 minutes, 22 secondsum yeah, I I wish I had a better answer for what  exactly that is, but I'm not entirely sure. And  
55:2955 minutes, 29 secondsum you know Bob Lazar recently kind of talked  about the sport model and right um you know so  
55:3755 minutes, 37 secondslike this you know in my mind he close it closely  resembles to to this kind of disc. And so I'm  
55:4555 minutes, 45 secondswondering if there's like maybe uh a port hole  up there that um they use for navigation or if  
55:5255 minutes, 52 secondsit's a window to look out or even if it's just  another shadow from something above it because  
55:5955 minutes, 59 secondsyou know it's it's it's somewhere between ground  level and 10,000 ft in the air. Well, hey I mean  
56:0856 minutes, 8 secondslike you said you know cars there's some features  on cars where I'm like why the hell did they put   that there? [laughter] like what purpose does that  serve? So, who knows? But you make a good point,  
56:1956 minutes, 19 secondstoo, like the whole Bob Lazar thing. He his  whole thing um whether you believe him or not,  
56:2456 minutes, 24 secondswe know he's a very controversial character in the  UFO uh lore. Uh but he always said that the craft  
56:3156 minutes, 31 secondshe saw would turn belly up and like go forward.  And I think you did mention that earlier as well,  
56:3656 minutes, 36 secondslike is this a possibility that like these craft  can like rotate on their side and then that port  
56:4256 minutes, 42 secondshole is now in the back projecting it forward?  Who knows? Who knows? Or even pulling it. Uh, who  
56:4956 minutes, 49 secondsknows? But for sure. Yep. Yep. That's the beauty  of this. We can theorize all we want. [laughter]  
56:5456 minutes, 54 secondsWe'll never know. We don't know the flight  dynamics of these. And I think that's why they're  
57:0057 minutesso interesting because, you know, it's like um  you know, we we've seen military planes and we've  
57:0757 minutes, 7 secondsseen a lot of different things and and these  things seem to defy the physics of those. So,  
57:1557 minutes, 15 secondsyou know, it's um and and really it is one photo.  So, like it doesn't give you all the answers. And  
57:2457 minutes, 24 secondsuh but that's part of the intrigue about it.  That's why it's so interesting is because it's   it's this enigma. It's wrapped in mystery. And I  think that's part of what this whole phenomenon  
57:3457 minutes, 34 secondsis about perhaps teaching humans to sit quietly  and comfortably in the enigma even when we don't  
57:4157 minutes, 41 secondslike that. We don't we don't do well in limbo of  sorts. We need concrete answers. We need a clear  
57:4757 minutes, 47 secondspath. We look to make concrete sense of things.  This topic does not offer that often. Nope. keeps  
57:5557 minutes, 55 secondsus on our toes every day. As frustrating as that  is, it's exciting to living in the mystery. Um,  
58:0258 minutes, 2 secondsyou know, this definitely is one of the clearest  UFO photos ever, if not the most clear. But I  
58:0958 minutes, 9 secondsgotta ask you guys, like in your research, um, are  there any other like famous UFO photos or videos  
58:1758 minutes, 17 secondsor anything else you think kind of maybe even hold  a flame to this or or stack up with this or Yeah.  
58:2658 minutes, 26 secondsYeah. Anything you can think of. I I mean, I've  seen so many really compelling um photographs  
58:3358 minutes, 33 secondsover the course of this. Uh there was one I mean  I'm drawing a blanketine the Calvine photo was  
58:4058 minutes, 40 secondsthe other one that was really kind of like oh wow  you know um and Cotay though what separate sets  
Chapter 12: The Cote Photo vs. Other Famous UFO Photos
58:4958 minutes, 49 secondsit apart is that it's an official government photo  with an unbroken chain of command. So, um, that's  
58:5558 minutes, 55 secondskind of what makes it a little more, I don't  want to say authentic than the Calvine photo, um,  
59:0159 minutes, 1 secondwhich I think is real and and also amazing. Um,  so definitely go research the Calvine photo. Uh,  
59:0959 minutes, 9 secondsbut yeah, and and this is one of the, if not the  only one looking down on the craft, right? Like,  
59:1759 minutes, 17 secondsit's a completely different perspective. And I  think part of the looking at things from different  
59:2359 minutes, 23 secondsperspectives and looking at it from different  angles will give you inform you of different  
59:3059 minutes, 30 secondsthings. So um yeah, looking at on the top that's  driving me insane, [laughter] right? That's that's  
59:3859 minutes, 38 secondssuch a good point though that you guys bring up  of the fact that this is an official, you know,  
59:4459 minutes, 44 secondsgovernment survey mapping photo. Now, I I do live  in Scotland. I have been uh to what we presume was  
59:5359 minutes, 53 secondsthe exact location of the Calvine photo where  it was taken. Um we were able to use, you know,  
1:00:021 hour, 2 secondsthe RAF press officer came with me and another  documentary filmmaker to triangulate this area  
1:00:101 hour, 10 secondsand we do believe we found the exact place where  it was taken. Um, however, the the big thing there  
1:00:171 hour, 17 secondsis we don't know who the photographers are. We  think we have a first name. That's as far as we've  
1:00:231 hour, 23 secondsgotten so far. But, uh, you know, I'm working with  a documentary filmmaker to still try to I I go to  
1:00:301 hour, 30 secondsPit Lucker all the time and go to the restaurants.  I'm like, "Hey, who does that? Someone has to know  
1:00:361 hour, 36 secondswho took this damn photo. Someone help a brother  out. Come on." which was one of the amazing things  
1:00:421 hour, 42 secondsabout this project is that our very first kind of  email and out to Michael, it like just sucked us  
1:00:491 hour, 49 secondsright in and you know and and um but yeah, we were  able to find Sergio and get firsthand accounts  
1:00:571 hour, 57 secondsabout um his experience which was I didn't see  it there, but also I've had all these lifelong  
1:01:041 hour, 1 minute, 4 secondsexperiences. Let me tell you about them. Yeah.  Yep. [clears throat] And then it all unravels.   I love that. Um, yeah, and chain of custody is  so important, especially with photos and videos  
1:01:131 hour, 1 minute, 13 secondsnowadays, too, which is kind of um where I want  to fast forward with you guys as we kind of begin  
1:01:191 hour, 1 minute, 19 secondsto wrap things up here. Um, today's UFO world  is unrecognizable from again what Suzanne and  
1:01:271 hour, 1 minute, 27 secondsI have experienced for decades. At this point, I  didn't dare talk about this topic with family or  
1:01:331 hour, 1 minute, 33 secondsfriends because I was made fun of constantly.  But now we live in a world where they're now   coming to me and being like what's going on with  like these congressional hearings and you know  
1:01:431 hour, 1 minute, 43 secondsum all that sort of stuff. So what do you guys  think? Uh did you have any preconceived notions  
1:01:501 hour, 1 minute, 50 secondsof this topic before making the documentary? I  know you had an interest in it, but um what do you  
1:01:561 hour, 1 minute, 56 secondsmake of where we're at today with congressional  UFO hearings? um all these UFO file releases that  
1:02:021 hour, 2 minutes, 2 secondsthis current administration in the US is doing  like what do you think about modern euphology in  
1:02:091 hour, 2 minutes, 9 seconds2026 and where does your documentary kind of  what role does it play in that you know it's  
1:02:141 hour, 2 minutes, 14 secondsit's been an interesting curve when we started  this um the government had hasn't released those  
1:02:211 hour, 2 minutes, 21 secondstranches of of UFO photos or reports that  they have since released right so like as  
1:02:291 hour, 2 minutes, 29 secondswere making this, I was like, "Ah, well, we're  going to get disclosure and they're going to show   something that's better than this and nobody's  going to care and we'll we'll have missed the  
1:02:381 hour, 2 minutes, 38 secondsboat on it." But then they make these dumps and  they're full of like black bars and uh you know,  
Chapter 13: UFO Disclosure and Modern Ufology
1:02:461 hour, 2 minutes, 46 secondslike they're not giving you the good stuff. there.  Megan uses the term trickle truth, you know,  
1:02:501 hour, 2 minutes, 50 secondsso they like give you just a little bit to to to  satisfy something, but then they're not giving  
1:02:571 hour, 2 minutes, 57 secondsyou the real deal. Yeah. Um and but this one it's  it's been on the surface the whole time. Um so,  
1:03:051 hour, 3 minutes, 5 secondsuh even in starting this like the the topic has  gained momentum and more people have been brought  
1:03:131 hour, 3 minutes, 13 secondsinto the fold and more people are paying attention  now. Um, and Leslie Kaine, who we were fortunate  
1:03:191 hour, 3 minutes, 19 secondsenough to to interview, um, she wrote this amazing  article with Helen Cooper and Ralph Blumenthal in  
1:03:261 hour, 3 minutes, 26 seconds2017 for the New York Times. And that was a very  kind of pivotal moment in UFO research because  
1:03:361 hour, 3 minutes, 36 secondsit showed that the US government does in fact  fund research into the topic. Um, and that kind  
1:03:441 hour, 3 minutes, 44 secondsof gave birth to, you know, Lou Alzando and David  Crush and some of these other whistleblowers that,  
1:03:511 hour, 3 minutes, 51 secondsyou know, really put put their reputations and  lives on the line by coming forward and talking  
1:03:571 hour, 3 minutes, 57 secondsabout it. You know, we're we're artists from  Detroit, so you know, like nobody's like, "Oh,  
1:04:041 hour, 4 minutes, 4 secondsAdam's talking about UFOs. He's crazy." They  always thought I was crazy. [laughter] So,  
1:04:101 hour, 4 minutes, 10 secondsso far for the course. Um, but like you know at  a at a high level people are paying attention now  
1:04:181 hour, 4 minutes, 18 secondsand that's just that's amazing and it's been it's  come such a far way since that article and even in  
1:04:251 hour, 4 minutes, 25 secondsthe last couple of years um you know with the you  know what five five dumps by the government now  
1:04:321 hour, 4 minutes, 32 secondsof of different things and one of the one of the  videos there that intrigues me a lot is the one  
1:04:381 hour, 4 minutes, 38 secondsover Lake Hiron because like right know It's it's  in our own backyard and you go and you're like,  
1:04:431 hour, 4 minutes, 43 seconds"What is that?" And is it a balloon? Is it  this? Is it, you know, so um there's a lot  
1:04:501 hour, 4 minutes, 50 secondsof intrigue around it and a lot of questions  and um a lot of possibilities. Uh so you know,  
1:04:561 hour, 4 minutes, 56 secondsthe more we get um from different sources, the  more informed people are and the better, you know,  
1:05:041 hour, 5 minutes, 4 secondsthey can make their own decisions. you know, we're  not trying to force anybody to believe anything or  
1:05:101 hour, 5 minutes, 10 secondseven believe us. You know, we we really set out to  just kind of uh point a camera and let people tell  
1:05:181 hour, 5 minutes, 18 secondsus their stories. You know, we didn't try to we  didn't really set out with an agenda to, you know,  
1:05:251 hour, 5 minutes, 25 secondsum prove or disprove anything. We just wanted to  make an interesting film and do it the best that  
1:05:311 hour, 5 minutes, 31 secondswe could and that's what we did. Yeah. Absolutely.  Yeah. Yep. I I mean, Suzanne and I, we've covered  
1:05:381 hour, 5 minutes, 38 secondsevery one of those tanches and the releases and,  you know, we were left wanting. We were left with  
1:05:451 hour, 5 minutes, 45 secondsso many more questions than answers. This is  supposed to be about transparency and it seems  
1:05:501 hour, 5 minutes, 50 secondslike anything but in some ways. But, um, you know,  the files are really cool. The NASA stuff is cool,  
1:05:561 hour, 5 minutes, 56 secondsbut I will be honest personally, the videos and  photos have really let us down. And I I think  
1:06:031 hour, 6 minutes, 3 secondsthat's where a documentary like yours comes in to  kind of save the day and be like, "Hey, you want  
1:06:101 hour, 6 minutes, 10 secondssomething clear?" Like, you want something with an  actual history, backstory, government photos that  
1:06:171 hour, 6 minutes, 17 secondswere taken. Like, here you go. Like, so yeah,  I think this is the perfect time for something  
1:06:241 hour, 6 minutes, 24 secondslike what you guys did to combat a lot of the more  ambiguous um sort of stuff that has been released.  
1:06:321 hour, 6 minutes, 32 secondsSo yeah. Yeah, that's that's all I have to say  about that about I'm fanboying boying out about  
1:06:371 hour, 6 minutes, 37 secondsthe code [laughter] photo. But Suzanette, do you  have uh any other questions before we get obvious  
1:06:431 hour, 6 minutes, 43 secondslast two? Yeah. Yeah. One more question. Um I  would love for you to tell our listeners sort of  
1:06:501 hour, 6 minutes, 50 secondswhat your big takeaway is from this event and your  documentary. I think that the big takeaway is that  
1:07:001 hour, 7 minutesas broad and expansive as this topic is that you  really have the answers inside of you. It's really  
1:07:101 hour, 7 minutes, 10 secondsuh if you look internally and find peace and joy  and happiness and love in your own space, in your  
1:07:191 hour, 7 minutes, 19 secondsown skin with your own family. I think that's the  real takeaway is that as big as this topic is,  
1:07:271 hour, 7 minutes, 27 secondswhat it really comes down to um and Sergio says  this in the film is raise your family in peace.  
Chapter 14: Final Takeaways & Where to Watch The Cote Photo
1:07:321 hour, 7 minutes, 32 secondsHow fortunate we would all be. And um so I think  that's the big takeaway is that like it's within  
1:07:401 hour, 7 minutes, 40 secondsyou. You know, you have the answers. You have the  ability to um love. you have the ability to, you  
1:07:491 hour, 7 minutes, 49 secondsknow, share and and be part of something bigger  than yourself, right? By looking within. So,  
1:07:581 hour, 7 minutes, 58 secondsyeah, it's it's really it's really a story about,  you know, connecting with yourself and connecting  
1:08:041 hour, 8 minutes, 4 secondswith your family and and your friends and  and community community and and finding  
1:08:091 hour, 8 minutes, 9 secondspeace in life. And I know that's, you know, uh,  different than some of the other documentaries  
1:08:151 hour, 8 minutes, 15 secondsthat are like the government's out to get you. Uh,  [laughter] don't [clears throat] trust them. Fear,  
1:08:221 hour, 8 minutes, 22 secondsfear, fear. Yeah. You know, so tired of the fear  narrative. Yeah. Your documentary is refreshing.  
1:08:281 hour, 8 minutes, 28 secondsYeah. Very, [laughter] very refreshing. Well, so  well done and I think our listeners are going to  
1:08:331 hour, 8 minutes, 33 secondsabsolutely love watching your documentary. Thank  you. Absolutely. Uh, last question for you guys.  
1:08:401 hour, 8 minutes, 40 secondstell us a little bit more about the creative  team if you don't mind behind the dock. I know   a lot of people were involved with making this  thing. I always love to shout them out. You know,  
1:08:491 hour, 8 minutes, 49 secondsit takes a village to truly make something like  this for sure. And of course, other last question,  
1:08:561 hour, 8 minutes, 56 secondstwo-prong question, where and when can we  find the Cotay photo documentary? Uh, well,  
1:09:031 hour, 9 minutes, 3 secondsMegan was really the driving force behind all  of this. She really brought brought it together.  
1:09:081 hour, 9 minutes, 8 secondsUh, you have to really give a lot of love to Pablo  Pablo Carales who helped us produce it. He's a  
1:09:161 hour, 9 minutes, 16 secondsCosta Rican uh filmmaker. Uh, and he was really  instrumental in making a lot of these connections.  
1:09:231 hour, 9 minutes, 23 secondsRoberto Mario, our cinematographer,  uh our one of our cinematographers,  
1:09:281 hour, 9 minutes, 28 secondshe was the main cinematographer, really took  the story and put all his heart and energy into  
1:09:351 hour, 9 minutes, 35 secondsuh making this beautiful Luis Garo was our AC. He  was with us on the first trip and and you know,  
1:09:441 hour, 9 minutes, 44 secondswe're like, "Hey guys, we're going to get in this  car and we're going to drive around and we're   going to be spending all night shooting." And he's  like, "Let's go." [laughter] Uh uh Ben Keeler uh  
1:09:541 hour, 9 minutes, 54 secondsis a producer and on the film, but he also did  the mix and the audio with us, and he was very  
1:10:011 hour, 10 minutes, 1 secondinstrumental in helping bring this thing to life.  Darren Clark uh was our uh local DP who really  
1:10:101 hour, 10 minutes, 10 secondstook charge of doing a lot of the B-roll inserts  and he really helped us with production support.  
1:10:171 hour, 10 minutes, 17 secondsyou know, he he was a source where we got  our cameras and some of our gear from and,  
1:10:231 hour, 10 minutes, 23 secondsyou know, he was always there to bounce ideas  off of. Um, Hudson Hudson Edit, a company that  
1:10:301 hour, 10 minutes, 30 secondsI used to work for, was that I still do with from  time to time, was really helping and supportive  
1:10:381 hour, 10 minutes, 38 secondson the post-production end of the process. Katie  Barkle, a friend of ours, really kind of stepped  
1:10:431 hour, 10 minutes, 43 secondsin to help with editing and and give us kind  of a a second set of eyes on it. Um, and Sammy,  
1:10:531 hour, 10 minutes, 53 secondsyeah, Sam Sammy, our she really helped us get  together our uh our our socials. Uh Michael  
1:11:021 hour, 11 minutes, 2 secondsum uh yeah there Michaelardi helped us really and  Lori there was so many people that really really  
1:11:131 hour, 11 minutes, 13 secondstook ownership of this and really shared in the  experience and we can't thank them enough because  
1:11:191 hour, 11 minutes, 19 secondsthey we couldn't have done it without them.  Um we had an amazing crew. Um, we had a lot of  
1:11:251 hour, 11 minutes, 25 secondsfriends and family that supported us, uh, just in  conversations about it, you know, um, and really  
1:11:331 hour, 11 minutes, 33 secondskind of like helped guide us through this. Um,  and so we really couldn't have done it alone. And,  
1:11:401 hour, 11 minutes, 40 secondsum, as far as where you can see it, it'll be on  Apple TV. It'll be on the cotphoto.com where you  
1:11:471 hour, 11 minutes, 47 secondscan rent or buy it. And um it'll eventually  make its way into some other streamers and  
1:11:541 hour, 11 minutes, 54 secondsuh then it'll hopefully make its way around the  world and [laughter] get a lot of attention. So we  
1:12:011 hour, 12 minutes, 1 seconddid our best to make sure that it was made widely  available for anybody who wanted to see it and uh  
1:12:091 hour, 12 minutes, 9 secondswe also make the high resolution scan available on  our website for free. So if that Estabbon really  
1:12:151 hour, 12 minutes, 15 secondswanted the the high resolution scan uh free to  download because that these uh materials should be  
1:12:231 hour, 12 minutes, 23 secondsavailable for everyone across the world. So yeah  without so yeah we encourage you to you know even  
1:12:301 hour, 12 minutes, 30 secondsif you don't watch the movie go download the uh  download the scan and do your own analysis of it  
1:12:361 hour, 12 minutes, 36 secondsconversation piece you can just put it in a frame  and put it in your it'll be back on this wall very  
1:12:421 hour, 12 minutes, 42 secondssoon trust me. [laughter] happening for sure. Uh,  is there an official release date yet, guys, or  
1:12:471 hour, 12 minutes, 47 secondsis that still up in the air? It uh September 4th,  two days from now. Oh my gosh. On the Apple. So,  
1:12:551 hour, 12 minutes, 55 secondsand then it'll Yeah, it'll splinter its way out  into the world and um yeah, we're very excited to  
1:13:021 hour, 13 minutes, 2 secondsit's been an overwhelming positive response which  we're so grateful for. uh people have really kind  
1:13:081 hour, 13 minutes, 8 secondsof embraced it and I think there's a lot of people  who are very excited that something like this was  
1:13:161 hour, 13 minutes, 16 secondsmade. Um so uh you know thank you for sharing your  platform with us and helping us get the word out  
1:13:241 hour, 13 minutes, 24 secondsabout it. We really appreciate that and yeah we  would love it if people went and watched it and  
1:13:301 hour, 13 minutes, 30 secondsstudied the photo and shared their own ideas about  what it could be. Yeah. Right or wrong, you know,  
1:13:361 hour, 13 minutes, 36 secondsproof or no proof. Yeah. Like, however you want  to dissect it. And you know, there will always be  
1:13:441 hour, 13 minutes, 44 secondsroom for doubt and there will always be room for  skepticism. And but there's also a lot of room for  
1:13:521 hour, 13 minutes, 52 secondsum truth and honesty, and there's a lot of  room for uh many different people in this  
1:13:591 hour, 13 minutes, 59 secondsconversation. I love that. Yeah, we'll get the  conversation going in the comments below, guys,  
1:14:051 hour, 14 minutes, 5 secondson YouTube, on Spotify. You let us know what you  think of the Cotay photo. Uh, let these guys know,  
1:14:111 hour, 14 minutes, 11 secondstoo. Go to their website. We will have links  to where you can get the film and the website   below and in the show notes video description.  So, be on the lookout for the Cotay photo. It  
1:14:211 hour, 14 minutes, 21 secondswill have dropped by the time this airs. So, you  have no excuses. Go download, rent, buy, do it.  
1:14:281 hour, 14 minutes, 28 secondsIt is worth every second. And uh guys, we got to  thank you. It was a true honor and pleasure and  
1:14:341 hour, 14 minutes, 34 secondsthank you for your contribution to a field that uh  desperately needs the respect that you have given  
1:14:401 hour, 14 minutes, 40 secondsit in this documentary. So, thank you for joining  us on Somewhere in the Skies. Oh, thank you.  
1:14:451 hour, 14 minutes, 45 secondsThank you. And thank you for all the kind words  and uh yeah, we really appreciate it. [music]
1:15:171 hour, 15 minutes, 17 secondsHeat. Heat.
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1:15:351 hour, 15 minutes, 35 seconds[music]
1:15:361 hour, 15 minutes, 36 secondsHeat. Heat.
1:15:361 hour, 15 minutes, 36 seconds[music]