[Music] spray all right guys and he is back it  has been a while but we have a very good reason  
0:34
34 seconds
because he just came out with a brand new book  a history of Usos unidentified submerged objects  
0:41
41 seconds
volume one so welcome back to the show Once Again  Richard Dolan hi Ryan it's a pleasure I'm very  
0:50
50 seconds
always happy to be a guest on your program  you've got you got a great podcast and we've   known each other for a long time so it's always  fun yes we have we've had some fun experience  
1:00
1 minute
at conferences and and you know um I always bring  this up when you come on you were the first one to  
1:06
1 minute, 6 seconds
really give me a chance in this field man and you  published my very first book so I will forever be  
1:12
1 minute, 12 seconds
indebted to you for that so yeah fine book too a  really great book oh thank you thank you well hey  
1:19
1 minute, 19 seconds
it has led to this podcast that you're on today  and we're gonna talk all about the brand new book  
1:24
1 minute, 24 seconds
on a topic that you know has come a little bit  more to the Forefront but it might be a subtopic  
1:31
1 minute, 31 seconds
of euphology that a lot of people aren't quite  familiar with so of course the first easiest most  
1:37
1 minute, 37 seconds
softball question for you um what is a Uso let's  go UFOs 101 well the thing about this field of  
1:48
1 minute, 48 seconds
Arts from UFO to UAP and Uso we've gone through a  lot of different acronyms over the many many years  
1:55
1 minute, 55 seconds
so Uso today means unidentified submerged objects  so you know pretty straightforward and uh think of  
2:02
2 minutes, 2 seconds
a UFO under the water it's submerged in the water  uh in earlier times uh Uso was used and it had  
2:10
2 minutes, 10 seconds
actually meant uh unidentified submersible object  unidentified submarine object U and and there  
2:18
2 minutes, 18 seconds
were even other other types of acronyms used for  UFO and U USO in earlier years and I think it's  
2:24
2 minutes, 24 seconds
really because we ourselves were were not quite  solid with what we thought we were dealing with  
2:31
2 minutes, 31 seconds
so the the phenomenon of Usos has has always been  kind of noted by researchers over many years we've  
2:39
2 minutes, 39 seconds
we've known that there's there's something going  on in the waters of this planet at least from time  
2:47
2 minutes, 47 seconds
to time when they've been noted um and I think I  think researchers uh you know really wondered is  
2:56
2 minutes, 56 seconds
this a formal distinction or is this just a case  of some times these UFOs go into the water and  
3:03
3 minutes, 3 seconds
then they come out like how much of a big thing is  it so we didn't really even have our first book uh  
3:09
3 minutes, 9 seconds
that dealt with this subject at all until uh the  year 1970 I guess for some folks that seems like a  
3:14
3 minutes, 14 seconds
long time ago but actually it's not that long ago  it's uh there was one book uh very fine book but  
3:21
3 minutes, 21 seconds
then after that in the English language nothing  for about 40 years until the 2010s we had another  
3:27
3 minutes, 27 seconds
very good good book on the subject by um the late  Carl Fe he did a nice job on it uh and a couple  
3:34
3 minutes, 34 seconds
of books uh or studies in other languages Russian  uh the Italian UFO research group over there has  
3:40
3 minutes, 40 seconds
done some work on the waterbased aspect but the  the fact is there's been very little so it hasn't  
3:47
3 minutes, 47 seconds
really been treated until very recently as a a  well-defined subset of what we call UFOs or UAP  
3:57
3 minutes, 57 seconds
and so when I I I got into this about three years  ago and um I'll do a lot of different uh projects  
4:05
4 minutes, 5 seconds
for my website I have a site richol members  and a very active Community there and I I'll  
4:10
4 minutes, 10 seconds
get asked questions of all types and one dealt  with a Uso case in the 1940s and I did a like a  
4:17
4 minutes, 17 seconds
video presentation on that back in 2022 and I got  interested I thought you know this is really quite   fascinating I've always been interested in this  uh subset of the greater mystery and I just asked  
4:28
4 minutes, 28 seconds
myself how many cases actually are there of these  like and where are they how do I find them how do  
4:34
4 minutes, 34 seconds
you collect them and so I remember all through the  summer of 2022 I I just went on a wild goose chase  
4:41
4 minutes, 41 seconds
looking for these cases uh are there any digital  databases that I could look online turns out there  
4:46
4 minutes, 46 seconds
were a couple um were there like books or old  out of print magazines from the 1980s or 70s yes  
4:54
4 minutes, 54 seconds
a lot of those some of them are quite expensive  to acquire by the way but I I really hunted them  
4:58
4 minutes, 58 seconds
all down and uh and then sifted through I went  through literally thousands of of potential cases  
5:06
5 minutes, 6 seconds
for inclusion and ended up with uh just a little  under 700 for my uh three volume study here and  
5:15
5 minutes, 15 seconds
um it was a real Adventure it was a great uh  I call it a labor of love it truly was one of  
5:20
5 minutes, 20 seconds
the most fascinating research Endeavors I've I've  ever done or I think could ever do it's right up  
5:25
5 minutes, 25 seconds
there that's amazing and you know like you said  three volumes now um that is here's volum one  
5:34
5 minutes, 34 seconds
that and it's massive I know yeah yeah I love the  cover by the way love love love the cover um well  
5:40
5 minutes, 40 seconds
that's uh that's Tracy my wife and uh organizing  she was the project manager on the cover and yes  
5:46
5 minutes, 46 seconds
I love it's a great cover for that oh awesome  shout out shout out got two more good ones  
5:50
5 minutes, 50 seconds
coming too awesome um well okay so you know I've  probably brought this up to you in the past um my  
5:58
5 minutes, 58 seconds
interest in the topic of UFOs really began with a  personal sighting that I had uh over the body of  
6:04
6 minutes, 4 seconds
water the St Lawrence River in New York um I saw  a black triangle over the water um coasted over  
6:10
6 minutes, 10 seconds
went over towards Canada so you know this topic of  Usos clearly uh is special to me and to see a book  
6:18
6 minutes, 18 seconds
finally come out covering the extensive history of  these things is uh it's not only exciting but it's  
6:26
6 minutes, 26 seconds
essential this is a huge part of the phenomenon  and the data that hasn't been looked at so to  
6:32
6 minutes, 32 seconds
start with that data Rich I'd love to know like  how did you even begin to compile the data on  
6:37
6 minutes, 37 seconds
this and like were how do you differentiate these  things were there patterns like how did you go  
6:46
6 minutes, 46 seconds
about the research process yeah that's is a core  part of what this project ended up becoming and  
6:51
6 minutes, 51 seconds
it didn't start out like that I just started it  in 2022 with the idea of finding uh cases that I  
6:58
6 minutes, 58 seconds
personally felt were compelling that I felt needed  to be resuscitated because they had been forgotten   and it was this was just a forgotten part of  our history I wasn't thinking in terms of data  
7:08
7 minutes, 8 seconds
analysis or data extraction after I had compiled  all of the cases for all three volumes and written  
7:15
7 minutes, 15 seconds
them all out uh this is again my this I have to  credit and and blame my wife she said you know  
7:22
7 minutes, 22 seconds
it would be great is if at the beginning of each  of these uh narratives for these cases wouldn't  
7:28
7 minutes, 28 seconds
it be nice to have like just a quick reference  of categories like what color was the object how  
7:34
7 minutes, 34 seconds
close was the witness to the object what was  the shape of the object what did it do was it   below the water did it emerge from the water did  it go into the water and any other uh relevant  
7:44
7 minutes, 44 seconds
things and I thought I had a I had mixed feelings  because it was a obviously it was the right thing  
7:51
7 minutes, 51 seconds
to do it was the great advice but I didn't want it  because it was just a lot more work but I thought  
7:55
7 minutes, 55 seconds
I will do this because the book it absolutely  needed it and my goodness it was um you know my  
8:03
8 minutes, 3 seconds
wife actually has provided a lot of excellent  advice along the way and it's hard for me to   judge which was the best bit of advice but maybe  that was that's that might be number one because  
8:12
8 minutes, 12 seconds
it transformed the whole nature of this project  so I went back through all of the cases every one  
8:18
8 minutes, 18 seconds
this took several months and I extracted about  15 data points from each case and I tried to be  
8:24
8 minutes, 24 seconds
very methodical very objective and and then once  that was done then I just thought these should be  
8:31
8 minutes, 31 seconds
in a spreadsheet and uh so I ended up creating  a very very very large spreadsheet which is a  
8:39
8 minutes, 39 seconds
free download anyone can can read it um but um and  then once the spreadsheet was there I was able to  
8:46
8 minutes, 46 seconds
see all kinds of patterns that I would never ever  have noticed otherwise and uh you know and I can  
8:53
8 minutes, 53 seconds
discuss some of those patterns but the first thing  I would want to say is when when I started seeing  
9:00
9 minutes
a a whole array of unique and logical patterns  it made me feel a lot more confident frankly  
9:08
9 minutes, 8 seconds
over the Integrity of the data itself  because it seem like there are there are   consistencies here that are are fascinating  so I'll give you a couple of examples um I  
9:20
9 minutes, 20 seconds
made I made kind of a big thing of these  in the book itself because I did have a   whole section where I discuss the data I do a  very extended data analysis in this book here  
9:30
9 minutes, 30 seconds
uh one is a simple one it's day versus night  uh one of the I I track was the object seen  
9:35
9 minutes, 35 seconds
in in daylight or at night it's a simple  distinction and um and what I found was  
9:42
9 minutes, 42 seconds
really quite remarkable so all of the cases up  until the late 1960s pardon me specifically 19  
9:50
9 minutes, 50 seconds
the end of 1967 uh it's 51% of all of my cases  collected occurred in the daytime so almost 50/50  
9:59
9 minutes, 59 seconds
slight Edge to daytime but it's almost exactly  even after 1967 they three quarters of them almost  
10:08
10 minutes, 8 seconds
immediately all started going at night and that  has been the case to this day so it's quite of  
10:14
10 minutes, 14 seconds
quite a significant change uh and on top of that  military versus civilian cases it's even more  
10:19
10 minutes, 19 seconds
extreme so military cases even in the early years  were much more likely to occur at night uh in the  
10:26
10 minutes, 26 seconds
early years up to the late 60s about two-thirds  of all military Uso encounters were at night uh  
10:33
10 minutes, 33 seconds
whereas a significant majority of Civilian ones  were in the daytime after the late 60s uh nearly  
10:39
10 minutes, 39 seconds
90% of military cases ever since have occurred at  night with in regarding Usos so it's really very  
10:46
10 minutes, 46 seconds
remarkable and when I look at that it it seems  to me this is not a random outcome this is this  
10:53
10 minutes, 53 seconds
is a deliberate distinct um behavior that these  objects are engaging in a a behavior a behavioral  
11:04
11 minutes, 4 seconds
adaptation or change over time specifically during  the late 60s so that's interesting and then B they  
11:10
11 minutes, 10 seconds
seem to have the ability to distinguish between  military and non-military uh vessels which   shouldn't surprise us but it's interesting to see  that you get this in the data itself that there's  
11:21
11 minutes, 21 seconds
distinction in behaviors so that's that's one  thing and I'll mention one other uh off the top  
11:27
11 minutes, 27 seconds
of my head which is also equally fascinating  to me which is instances of electromagnetic  
11:33
11 minutes, 33 seconds
interference this is one thing that I tracked was  there em interference like did compasses go crazy  
11:39
11 minutes, 39 seconds
did electrical systems go down did Communications  or weapon systems in the case of navies go down  
11:45
11 minutes, 45 seconds
things like this so I tracked all of that and uh  from the 19 early 50s onward and I I say early 50s  
11:53
11 minutes, 53 seconds
because that was my first recorded instance of a  Uso engaging in EM interference that I was able to  
11:59
11 minutes, 59 seconds
determine so from that point onward a lot of cases  um I had uh almost 10% of all Uso cases had em  
12:08
12 minutes, 8 seconds
interference 99.5% it's quite a lot one out of 10  a lot yeah however it gets even more interesting  
12:14
12 minutes, 14 seconds
when you distinguish military to non-military  military instances are 20% em interference like  
12:24
12 minutes, 24 seconds
Communications going down on an aircraft carrier  for like a half hour for example things like  
12:29
12 minutes, 29 seconds
this weapon systems going down 20 so it's double  for military and then even crazier is in the few  
12:37
12 minutes, 37 seconds
instances of alleged missing time connecting  to a Uso or sightings of an alleged being in  
12:47
12 minutes, 47 seconds
connection with the Uso so when you add those  two together that's still a minority it's like  
12:51
12 minutes, 51 seconds
6% of all of my cases however those instances  showed a likelihood of four times the average  
13:01
13 minutes, 1 second
of having electromagnetic interference instead  of two times as in military cases so that's an  
13:06
13 minutes, 6 seconds
interesting pattern I would never have thought  about such a pattern and I didn't think about  
13:13
13 minutes, 13 seconds
it even when I was going through all of these  cases in and and writing them down um I didn't  
13:19
13 minutes, 19 seconds
I didn't see that pattern until I saw it in the  spreadsheet and it was kind of a shocking moment  
13:24
13 minutes, 24 seconds
to me it was like you know you can go through  these cases and cases and cases and not see the   patterns until you see them in a certain format  with the data right there in front of you right  
13:35
13 minutes, 35 seconds
right because and the EM interference for missing  time like it kind of makes sense when you think   about it it's like and and the last thing I'll  just say here it tells me it indicates to me  
13:45
13 minutes, 45 seconds
that electromagnetic interference isn't simply  or always some random uh after effect of the  
13:52
13 minutes, 52 seconds
craft themselves it seems to me that there are  instances where it is intentional or it seems to  
13:59
13 minutes, 59 seconds
because it follows follows specific patterns that  is interesting you know and yes I was just going  
14:05
14 minutes, 5 seconds
to stress that too like you can look at the after  effect of uh the technology of said craft or or  
14:15
14 minutes, 15 seconds
phenomena um you can look at the aftermath and  that can be a set of data whereas then you have  
14:21
14 minutes, 21 seconds
the craft itself and the patterns related to the  technology behind that craft so yeah yeah the more  
14:28
14 minutes, 28 seconds
you zoom out the more patterns you can obviously  make with a lot of these things it's fascinating   um yeah there are a lot of these patterns but  those those are two good ones that I love to  
14:36
14 minutes, 36 seconds
discuss that's cool they're just amazing right  right um well I want to rewind a bit now you  
14:42
14 minutes, 42 seconds
mentioned like 1950s and everything um but I mean  your book goes way further back than the 1950s um  
14:52
14 minutes, 52 seconds
so what would you say would be some of the most  like the earliest accounts that you came across in  
14:59
14 minutes, 59 seconds
work yeah I really tried to determine this this  is a very very important part of my research so  
15:06
15 minutes, 6 seconds
uh you know because when you're when you're  looking at a phenomenon like this you you   want to you want to try to be as objective as you  can obviously because we're trying to understand  
15:13
15 minutes, 13 seconds
what is the truth and the truth is if there is  a presence here one of the important things we  
15:19
15 minutes, 19 seconds
really must get a handle on in my opinion is how  long have they been here we hear all the time  
15:27
15 minutes, 27 seconds
people saying oh they theyve been here forever and  to the point where it's I feel it's almost become   a cliche and I'm not saying there hasn't been  a long-standing presence because I personally  
15:37
15 minutes, 37 seconds
think there has been but that is not to say that  that presence has been consistent necessarily over  
15:44
15 minutes, 44 seconds
many centuries my my take on this phenomenon  whether we're talking aerial or water-based is  
15:51
15 minutes, 51 seconds
that there probably was a long-standing presence  but it seems to me much more lowkey much much more  
15:59
15 minutes, 59 seconds
lowkey than it is today and I think everything  did explode in terms of uh quality and quantity  
16:04
16 minutes, 4 seconds
of reports immediately after World War Two that  is what it looks like to me but prior yes there  
16:10
16 minutes, 10 seconds
are some good cases including Uso cases but very  few I just have to stress this so the I looked at  
16:17
16 minutes, 17 seconds
some really potential early cases I looked at  the Christopher Columbus sighting for example  
16:23
16 minutes, 23 seconds
and that's a good one um that's not a shhot Uso  though it's interesting uh uh upon approaching  
16:30
16 minutes, 30 seconds
the new world he was actually a day out from um  from landfall in the Dominican Republic Hispanola  
16:40
16 minutes, 40 seconds
they saw Columbus and another crew members saw  a very distinct light and A lot's been talked   about regarding that and it is interesting U but  I don't include that as an official case either  
16:51
16 minutes, 51 seconds
and that is because as good as as reliable as the  Witnesses were and I think they're quite reliable  
16:57
16 minutes, 57 seconds
we don't really know what they were could this  they were close to land did they see a torch on  
17:02
17 minutes, 2 seconds
like an elevated part of the shore it's possible  I we I don't really know what that was it is not  
17:10
17 minutes, 10 seconds
obvious that that was a Uso so I leave it as I I  discuss it but it's not an official case there are  
17:17
17 minutes, 17 seconds
some other early cases like this where whether in  Europe or in China uh China had a lot of recorded  
17:24
17 minutes, 24 seconds
cases that are interesting but the problem is  with these earliest cases un fortunately they're  
17:29
17 minutes, 29 seconds
they're so threadbear that it's very difficult to  know what you're actually dealing with and many   of them are quite vague to be perfectly honest and  it's just hard to know and some of them just don't  
17:40
17 minutes, 40 seconds
make sense to me I'll just be perfectly blunt  about it and some are clearly social commentary  
17:47
17 minutes, 47 seconds
for example uh there's one from uh England from  the 17th century the 1660s we're told object  
17:53
17 minutes, 53 seconds
supposedly comes out of the river sever near  Bristol described as looking like one of those  
17:59
17 minutes, 59 seconds
kites that the young boys fly this is in 1661 very  interesting yeah uh but then when you read it it  
18:09
18 minutes, 9 seconds
the the kite or the object took the form of a of  a Stern looking man in the sky pacing back and  
18:15
18 minutes, 15 seconds
forth and then took the image of a gallant man  on Horseback go riding back and forth and then   took the image of a beautiful woman in a gown and  you you read that and you realize England had just  
18:25
18 minutes, 25 seconds
gone through uh their own Civil War very bit very  severe one they cut they had killed their King  
18:32
18 minutes, 32 seconds
not long ago Oliver Cromwell had just died by this  point and so it's it's clearly to to my reading an  
18:40
18 minutes, 40 seconds
interpretation uh of the politics of the time the  the the Grim man was a pitan was Cromwell perhaps  
18:47
18 minutes, 47 seconds
the man on Horseback was the new King Charles II  who was a a gallant Cavalier as a matter of fact a  
18:52
18 minutes, 52 seconds
good horse Horsemen and then the woman I interpret  as you know peace uh justice TR IL whatever it's  
19:00
19 minutes
clearly symbolic to me and I I can't take it  seriously as a Uso account because the fact is  
19:06
19 minutes, 6 seconds
many of these societies we need to understand the  social and political and the customs of the time  
19:13
19 minutes, 13 seconds
to really understand them which I think is not we  don't do this enough in the UFO field having said  
19:20
19 minutes, 20 seconds
all that the first really great case that that I'm  confident of takes place in 1717 so it's kind of  
19:27
19 minutes, 27 seconds
late in the day I don't include uh any from a  thousand years ago or Roman times or whatever  
19:32
19 minutes, 32 seconds
I just didn't find them if someone else finds one  please let me know I will absolutely consider it  
19:39
19 minutes, 39 seconds
but in 1717 there was a French ship off the coast  of Martinique in the Caribbean French uh captain  
19:46
19 minutes, 46 seconds
of the ship wrote about it in his log it was at  about 2:30 in the morning so dead of night there  
19:52
19 minutes, 52 seconds
was half moon out so light was somewhat there  visibility wasn't terrible and he sees off the  
19:58
19 minutes, 58 seconds
side of the boat and a vertical uh shaft uh above  the water like maybe uh you know maybe less than a  
20:06
20 minutes, 6 seconds
meter tall and it's going alongside the ship like  he he described it as like a mast head but it was  
20:13
20 minutes, 13 seconds
out of the water and I have not the slightest idea  of what that could be conventionally it was a very  
20:21
20 minutes, 21 seconds
it's not the most incredible detailed sighting  but it was matter of fact enough he clearly wasn't  
20:28
20 minutes, 28 seconds
trying to to uh make a point here he was just  noting a very strange thing that you read about it  
20:33
20 minutes, 33 seconds
300 years later still doesn't make any sense yeah  me as some kind of could it be a monitoring device  
20:39
20 minutes, 39 seconds
who knows something checking out right right um  well that's interesting the whole monitoring thing  
20:46
20 minutes, 46 seconds
like I I know there's obviously cases that modern  euphology can look to when it comes to Usos such  
20:54
20 minutes, 54 seconds
as obviously the Tic Tac event that everyone's  been talking about for the past seven eight  
20:59
20 minutes, 59 seconds
years now at this point however um were there any  cases Rich um let's start I guess with military  
21:05
21 minutes, 5 seconds
Navy vessels or anything like that um that really  stand out to you like maybe a favorite or two um  
21:12
21 minutes, 12 seconds
military wise yeah yeah military cases compris  about 20% of all of the Uso cases I have that's  
21:19
21 minutes, 19 seconds
a lot of course that means 80% are not military  so there's a lot of for civilians of course but  
21:25
21 minutes, 25 seconds
a lot of military cases many US Navy quite a few  Soviet navy cases that are fascinating and navies  
21:31
21 minutes, 31 seconds
of other nations the Royal Navy uh Argentine  Navy um France has a couple of cases their Navy  
21:40
21 minutes, 40 seconds
and uh Australia quite a few so uh several US Navy  cases are extraordinary I mean just mind-blowingly  
21:48
21 minutes, 48 seconds
extraordinary U most of these cases not all but  most will come from a retired Navy guy who like  
21:55
21 minutes, 55 seconds
20 30 years after the fact writes to some blog  site and say say wasn't supposed to talk about  
22:00
22 minutes
this but I'm it's getting late in the game and I  just have to get this off my chest and they will  
22:06
22 minutes, 6 seconds
sometimes anonymously sometimes they'll give their  name you know depends and they will tell their   story and they're very consistent these stories  are very consistent but a one that has blown my  
22:17
22 minutes, 17 seconds
mind this will go in the second volume although  I do a little write up in the intro to this first  
22:22
22 minutes, 22 seconds
volume happened in 1971 in the um I think just  north of the Caribbean possibly Bermuda Triangle a  
22:32
22 minutes, 32 seconds
lot of Bermuda Triangle cases anyway this was the  USS John F Kennedy aircraft carrier it was July  
22:38
22 minutes, 38 seconds
2nd 1971 at 800m we have got the exact date time  uh we have the name of the man who reported it  
22:45
22 minutes, 45 seconds
as well and he was running Communications on the  the JFK so we're talking major US aircraft carrier  
22:52
22 minutes, 52 seconds
they had just done a long series of carrier  qualifications basically tests detailed tests to  
22:59
22 minutes, 59 seconds
uh check out all of the systems and their response  to emergencies and so forth and they were now  
23:05
23 minutes, 5 seconds
north of the Caribbean headed toward uh port  and 8:00 and uh the witness is at this comms  
23:12
23 minutes, 12 seconds
station where he hears on the intercom someone  freaking out on the ship screaming it's God it's  
23:20
23 minutes, 20 seconds
the end of the world that's what he heard so  was like screaming so he he leaves the station  
23:26
23 minutes, 26 seconds
he goes out to the deck to look and now it's 8  at night so it's dark but he sees a glowing orb  
23:32
23 minutes, 32 seconds
spherical object that's like orange red yellow  uh colors glowing he said with about half the  
23:39
23 minutes, 39 seconds
strength of daylight so pretty intense and he's  just watching it he said it was the size of a  
23:45
23 minutes, 45 seconds
beach ball held at arms length so fairly large  yeah and uh and everyone's just just going crazy  
23:54
23 minutes, 54 seconds
on the ship he's watching it for about half a  minute before the ship goes to battle station   General quarters so he has to go back down to his  communication station and he doesn't see it ever  
24:03
24 minutes, 3 seconds
again the ship stays on General quarters for about  uh roughly a half an hour during which time all  
24:10
24 minutes, 10 seconds
Communications were gibberish so nothing was going  in or out of the ship in terms of communication  
24:17
24 minutes, 17 seconds
so the ship was isolated and was not able to  communicate um he implied that weapon systems  
24:22
24 minutes, 22 seconds
were also inoperable during this so they perhaps  attempted to launch an aircraft or fire weapon  
24:29
24 minutes, 29 seconds
or who knows uh that did not happen uh there's  a little bit of an aftermath to this where the  
24:34
24 minutes, 34 seconds
ship's uh Captain a few days later got on the  loudspeaker and said before we de deboard uh I  
24:41
24 minutes, 41 seconds
just want to remind you all that certain things  that happen aboard a US Navy warship are not to  
24:49
24 minutes, 49 seconds
be disseminated elsewhere he wasn't specific but  the the man writing it in said we all knew what he  
24:55
24 minutes, 55 seconds
was talking about yeah so that's 1971 and these  or these glowing orbs uh there's quite a few of  
25:03
25 minutes, 3 seconds
those in the Uso uh uh collection as there are in  aerial encounters you get a lot of these orbs but  
25:10
25 minutes, 10 seconds
that was one that completely disabled uh a major  United States aircraft carrier and there are other  
25:17
25 minutes, 17 seconds
such stories that where US aircraft carriers and  also Soviet uh warships were equally disabled by  
25:25
25 minutes, 25 seconds
these things yeah yeah I remember reading a few  of those in the book um how about how about a  
25:31
25 minutes, 31 seconds
civilian case you know um for someone like me I  spend all my time interviewing civilians about  
25:37
25 minutes, 37 seconds
their UFO sightings and oftentimes they can be  much weirder than a lot of the military ones for  
25:43
25 minutes, 43 seconds
many different reasons but does one really stick  out to you in terms of like a very humanistic  
25:49
25 minutes, 49 seconds
response to it yeah yeah well there's one I I keep  coming back Toc but I've mentioned it in a couple   of other interviews and I don't want to keep  repeating the same one but there there's how about  
25:58
25 minutes, 58 seconds
one from the 50s I just I I just love this case  and I have mentioned it once or twice so forgive  
26:04
26 minutes, 4 seconds
me but this was in 1952 in an utterly remote  region the uian islands uh one of them is known  
26:13
26 minutes, 13 seconds
as shemya Island it's closer to Russia than it  is to Mainland Alaska so it's way out there there  
26:19
26 minutes, 19 seconds
this is right on the Bearing Sea there it's very  inhospitable remote if you look for it on a map  
26:27
26 minutes, 27 seconds
you will definitely realized this is not a tourist  destination at all it's very very difficult to  
26:32
26 minutes, 32 seconds
be there in the winter time when this occurred  never gets above freezing the winds are intense  
26:38
26 minutes, 38 seconds
everything so there was a guy who was a a civilian  working there he was not military he was a riger  
26:44
26 minutes, 44 seconds
he described himself I guess in oil and um he had  this day off I've often wondered what do you do  
26:51
26 minutes, 51 seconds
on your day off in shemya island probably not much  so so he was outside it was daytime and he's just  
26:58
26 minutes, 58 seconds
looking out of the ocean he like what else are  he going to do it's January 1952 he's looking  
27:03
27 minutes, 3 seconds
at and then he says I heard this noise above me  I looked up it was a worrying whining noise and  
27:10
27 minutes, 10 seconds
he saw this craft it was very similar to the way  Kenneth Arnold described the flying saucers in  
27:16
27 minutes, 16 seconds
1947 it's kind of a wing like a flying wing design  he said it was shaped like a bat uh it had these  
27:24
27 minutes, 24 seconds
two wings that came back no fuselage uh there was  a a dome in the center that was glowing red and  
27:32
27 minutes, 32 seconds
there were two greenish lights on either Wing you  could say and it was just there and he's watching  
27:38
27 minutes, 38 seconds
it going down like a leaf he said like this and um  and then it stopped about 75 feet above his head  
27:45
27 minutes, 45 seconds
pretty low certainly close enough to get a very  good look at this thing and it stopped silent and  
27:52
27 minutes, 52 seconds
Dead uh motionless which he wasn't describing  the winds but I know the winds there are  
27:58
27 minutes, 58 seconds
always intense so this thing is just there and  then he said it tilted to go down and it just  
28:03
28 minutes, 3 seconds
slid into the water and he gasped he said and then  he stood there for as long as he could waiting for  
28:12
28 minutes, 12 seconds
this thing to come out of the water but it never  did so uh to me that's amazing I I've I've often  
28:19
28 minutes, 19 seconds
thought like it had to be that moment when he's  standing on a rock looking at at this thing had   to be probably the most memorable experience of  his entire life like what whatever else his name  
28:29
28 minutes, 29 seconds
was Elden white and and it wasn't until 14 years  later that he wrote this handwritten letter to Nik  
28:36
28 minutes, 36 seconds
cap the UFO organization and just he said look you  know this is what happened to me 14 years ago back  
28:43
28 minutes, 43 seconds
in 1952 when this occurred who would you report  this to there were no right easy places to do that  
28:50
28 minutes, 50 seconds
so he writes it out years later no one knows who  this guy is he was totally forgotten by history  
28:55
28 minutes, 55 seconds
but and his sighting was forgotten but God just  uh you got to wonder like what what is this so you  
29:03
29 minutes, 3 seconds
could this have been experimental technology  launched from where like there's there's no   place nearby that you could practically have done  something like this it makes no sense it doesn't  
29:13
29 minutes, 13 seconds
seem like natural phenomenon in any way the way  you described it was extremely technological  
29:18
29 minutes, 18 seconds
so that's to me that's a genuine Uso for sure  absolutely man you had me a handwritten letter  
29:25
29 minutes, 25 seconds
first of all I'm just imagining him like putting  it in a message in a bottle and sending it across  
29:30
29 minutes, 30 seconds
the ocean I found I found that case um from the  late Carl Fe who um Carl really did a lot of major  
29:39
29 minutes, 39 seconds
leg work on this and he he deserves and receives  a lot of credit in my book um he went through  
29:45
29 minutes, 45 seconds
a lot of the archives so that that letter went  from naikap to the organization kufos the center   for UFO studies and they they had the letter and  Carl just was in the kufos archives and found it  
29:56
29 minutes, 56 seconds
and put it on his now defunct website what but was  where I found it so that's how we get these cases  
30:03
30 minutes, 3 seconds
you know there's it's a it's a major team effort  I'm not I'm not going in and just doing all 100%   of this myself many many other people over the  years have have laid the groundwork for this book  
30:13
30 minutes, 13 seconds
absolutely man it takes an army I mean I wouldn't  have a podcast if people didn't report their UFO  
30:19
30 minutes, 19 seconds
sightings to me so and working with colleagues  like yourself Peter Robbins and people who bring  
30:26
30 minutes, 26 seconds
things to me so yes it truly does take take a uh  an army for sure um so I'm recently uh in the past  
30:36
30 minutes, 36 seconds
couple years I've been traveling to and from Nova  Scotia um you know at least twice sometimes three  
30:42
30 minutes, 42 seconds
times a year now um I live in Old Scotia I go  to new Scotia and um one of the big things there  
30:50
30 minutes, 50 seconds
obviously is the Shag Harbor UFO exactly um I  have recently spoken at their conference out there  
30:58
30 minutes, 58 seconds
and I just finished filming a feature documentary  about the shik haror UFO incident where I got  
31:04
31 minutes, 4 seconds
that's fantastic oh my gosh man inter the prime  Witnesses I oh you'll be the first I promise um  
31:11
31 minutes, 11 seconds
but you do touch on this case in the book among  many others so what do you think I'd love to know  
31:17
31 minutes, 17 seconds
your personal thoughts on the shank Harbor Event  where does it lay in the pantheon of Usos and  
31:23
31 minutes, 23 seconds
yeah it's extremely important um you know 99%  of the cases that I found for this study were  
31:30
31 minutes, 30 seconds
utterly unknown even to experienced researchers I  would Hazard to say most of the cases that I found  
31:36
31 minutes, 36 seconds
were just utterly forgotten but shag Harbor 1967  is certainly not one of those cases it is it's  
31:45
31 minutes, 45 seconds
really like the Roswell of Usos in many ways it's  got that level uh I would say shag Harbor and now  
31:51
31 minutes, 51 seconds
we could include the the Tic Tac nits Encounter  of 2004 which has a Uso component but really  
31:57
31 minutes, 57 seconds
shag Harbor it's incredible so shag Harbor is uh  as you point out it's it's Nova Scotia which is um  
32:06
32 minutes, 6 seconds
right off the coast there of Canada it's kind  of northeast of Maine and um it's sitting out  
32:11
32 minutes, 11 seconds
there in the water uh it's a fisherman's you know  this oh yeah that's the history there they they  
32:18
32 minutes, 18 seconds
fish they go whaling and all of it lots of lots of  water so um on October uh 4th 1967 late at night  
32:27
32 minutes, 27 seconds
getting close to midnight you had multiple people  at this location they see four um basically bright  
32:33
32 minutes, 33 seconds
orange lights they're kind of in a 45 degree angle  and they they descend into the water uh right off  
32:40
32 minutes, 40 seconds
the shore there and there was a single white light  that was visible on the surface for a little while   as well before that also disappeared so you have  guys going out in the boats they see this weird  
32:50
32 minutes, 50 seconds
yellow foam on the water talked about that a lot  basically the RCMP responds and they wondered  
32:56
32 minutes, 56 seconds
that an aircraft crash there was no aircraft  they checked with Aviation authorities there   was nothing no planes were missing no planes were  operating they send a Canadian divers out there uh  
33:07
33 minutes, 7 seconds
they didn't find anything initially but what makes  this case extraordinary is what investigators  
33:13
33 minutes, 13 seconds
later uncovered basically you're talking Chris  Styles and Don Ledger were the two who really dug  
33:19
33 minutes, 19 seconds
into this they were local there and Chris is still  doing this of course um so the object um according  
33:27
33 minutes, 27 seconds
to numerous Witnesses moved underwater toward  a secret submarine detection station in in the  
33:33
33 minutes, 33 seconds
water there and um and you had a situation where  the naval vessels were observing not one but two  
33:40
33 minutes, 40 seconds
underwater objects that were engaged in some kind  of repair operations this went on for about a week  
33:47
33 minutes, 47 seconds
uh in fact during that period a Soviet uh vessel  appeared as well but was escorted away this became  
33:52
33 minutes, 52 seconds
you had Canadian US Soviet all converging here  obviously everyone realized this was something  
34:00
34 minutes
important and then uh shortly after this this is  uh just remarkable uh off a little bit off the  
34:08
34 minutes, 8 seconds
coast uh out getting out into the water into the  Open Water uh two both underwater objects emerged  
34:16
34 minutes, 16 seconds
from the sea and just rapidly took off um so they  according to at least the witnesses that Chris and  
34:23
34 minutes, 23 seconds
Don Ledger found they did that by the way there  was an interesting case in that exact same area  
34:29
34 minutes, 29 seconds
less than a year later in um May of 1968 U about  30 miles Southwest of shag Harbor same area there  
34:39
34 minutes, 39 seconds
you had a a captain of a fishing boat and then  another captain of another fishing boat all in  
34:46
34 minutes, 46 seconds
the area they see this bright red light that came  I I can't recall if it came out of the water came  
34:53
34 minutes, 53 seconds
was low over the water went right over their boat  at night radiating this intense heat actually to  
34:59
34 minutes, 59 seconds
the point of burning them uh the captain goes  into his cabin to escape from it and he still  
35:04
35 minutes, 4 seconds
feels the heat inside his cabin he's on the radio  with another ship as this object moved over him  
35:11
35 minutes, 11 seconds
and then over this other boat and um yeah it was  seen going on the water at times and lifting up  
35:17
35 minutes, 17 seconds
off the water until it was gone so you had two two  fishing boats in the exact same area catching some  
35:25
35 minutes, 25 seconds
very bizarre uh globular spherical object that  they could only identify as an intense light who  
35:32
35 minutes, 32 seconds
knows what it really was it was L later seen I  think it was just floating that's right on the  
35:36
35 minutes, 36 seconds
water along the Nova Scotia Coast just a little  known after yeah yeah right yeah there's something  
35:46
35 minutes, 46 seconds
about the water there man I'm telling you it's  pretty pretty crazy that region yeah uh bo I'm  
35:54
35 minutes, 54 seconds
just going here aren't I but various hotpots for  this activity we all talk about Catalina Island we  
36:01
36 minutes, 1 second
all talk about Puerto Rico yes and yes to both but  another one is that whole Atlantic coast region uh  
36:08
36 minutes, 8 seconds
as you go up from like the mid Atlant actually  Florida very intense but then as you go up the  
36:15
36 minutes, 15 seconds
US Coast there from like Virginia onward all the  way up to Nova Scotia and in fact Beyond that's  
36:21
36 minutes, 21 seconds
very heavy activity of Usos that whole area there  I love it a so interesting um well another sort  
36:30
36 minutes, 30 seconds
of I guess subtopic within Usos uh could be alien  abductions um is this something you tackle in the  
36:39
36 minutes, 39 seconds
book at all I mean you've got like the Allagash  one that happened out on the water obviously pasag  
36:43
36 minutes, 43 seconds
Gula is the more visible one that's out there  um yeah I feel yeah absolutely um so the allig  
36:52
36 minutes, 52 seconds
those are both from the 1970s and if I were to  include them they would go in the second volume   they're not official cases for me uh but I  actually I may add something about them in  
37:03
37 minutes, 3 seconds
one of my chapter introductions because they are  noteworthy and the reason they're not official  
37:08
37 minutes, 8 seconds
cases is because in neither of those instances  was the object definitively seen touching the  
37:16
37 minutes, 16 seconds
water that I am aware of even Pas Gula that's  1973 Mississippi the object according to the  
37:23
37 minutes, 23 seconds
two witnesses Calvin Parker and um oh crap man  I'm drawing a blank here anyway uh I know this  
37:30
37 minutes, 30 seconds
case so well too but they saw the object I think  directly above the water not on the water so I'm  
37:36
37 minutes, 36 seconds
like ah I could and the same with the Allagash  case from 76 uh the four guys they were fishing  
37:44
37 minutes, 44 seconds
they were abducted out of their fishing boat so  that's definitely noteworthy but there are there  
37:49
37 minutes, 49 seconds
are missing time cases that I found in my research  uh both back in the 40s and 50s and right up until  
37:58
37 minutes, 58 seconds
into the 21st century I've got a number of cases  where it does seem uh likely that something very  
38:05
38 minutes, 5 seconds
strange happened where you got missing time one  of them um is quite fascinating it's from like  
38:12
38 minutes, 12 seconds
around 1980 82 uh right by Catalina Island off the  U you know off the coast of La there and there is  
38:21
38 minutes, 21 seconds
a a man who was a a very experienced boat Boatman  uh experienced scuba diver as well so he's doing  
38:27
38 minutes, 27 seconds
a a late night boat uh from from the mainland to  Catalina Island so he arrives at the Island close  
38:37
38 minutes, 37 seconds
to midnight this is Summer of 82 and he realizes  he's he's actually several miles uh too far east  
38:45
38 minutes, 45 seconds
of where he needs to go to a place called Two  Harbors which is on the western side of the island   and he didn't arrive there so he's like okay well  I'll just go along the coast a few miles and I'll  
38:55
38 minutes, 55 seconds
get there and and that was when he ran into a  uh this bright yellow Square under the water it  
39:04
39 minutes, 4 seconds
had absolutely sharp corners and it extended about  one football field on either side of his boat it's  
39:11
39 minutes, 11 seconds
very large so think of it extremely large yellow  glowing bright perfect square beneath your boat  
39:20
39 minutes, 20 seconds
at midnight off the coast there of Catalina Island  he said it was visible for 15 seconds like it like  
39:27
39 minutes, 27 seconds
a light it turned on and then turned off so it's  very well defined he finally gets to Two Harbors  
39:33
39 minutes, 33 seconds
and it's two hours later so he he it should not  have taken anything like that he lost time for  
39:40
39 minutes, 40 seconds
sure and he wrote he said look he wrote this to  muon some years later said at the time I wasn't  
39:46
39 minutes, 46 seconds
really thinking about Usos what what did I know  about that but then I learned about Usos and I  
39:51
39 minutes, 51 seconds
thought is that what I encountered because he and  as you know from your research and many listeners  
39:58
39 minutes, 58 seconds
I'm sure are aware when people have a strange  encounter like this and they're missing time  
40:05
40 minutes, 5 seconds
or some strange thing happens they often don't  think about it for years and years and years it's   like you just have this weird thing happen and  you just chalk it off you shrug it off and you  
40:14
40 minutes, 14 seconds
forget about it you put it away in this little  corner of your mind because what do you do with  
40:21
40 minutes, 21 seconds
it you don't have sense defense mechanism yeah  yeah so that's what happened to him and that was  
40:28
40 minutes, 28 seconds
definitely missing time case there was another  one where um uh a woman this is in I think 2010  
40:36
40 minutes, 36 seconds
2011 this will be in volume three she was I think  in Alabama Mississippi down in the American South  
40:43
40 minutes, 43 seconds
there uh she was at the beach what at night alone  enjoying the weather enjoying the scenery and  
40:51
40 minutes, 51 seconds
she also had a very strange uh visual from an  object that I think had come out of the water  
40:58
40 minutes, 58 seconds
uh my memory is a little fuzzy on this one but it  came toward her things got kind of crazy the next   thing she knows she goes to a diner to make sense  of what she had and she realized that she'd lost  
41:07
41 minutes, 7 seconds
a couple of hours of time and it was you know  there's a lot of fuzziness to some of these  
41:13
41 minutes, 13 seconds
cases like you have something weird happen uh in  connection to a sighting and and we don't always  
41:21
41 minutes, 21 seconds
know how to process it because uh I think there's  definitely a level of cognitive manipulation  
41:27
41 minutes, 27 seconds
that goes on with many of these cases where there  is missing time and the likelihood or possibility  
41:32
41 minutes, 32 seconds
that someone was taken or messed with in some way  right wow um okay I want to if it's okay rich I  
41:40
41 minutes, 40 seconds
want to Circle back to this yellow Square thing  under the water um that imagery is just sticking  
41:48
41 minutes, 48 seconds
with me um but it brings me to an a question I'm  sure a lot of people are wondering um bases are  
41:56
41 minutes, 56 seconds
do you cover this at all I mean we've heard for  years that there's these underwater bases um you  
42:02
42 minutes, 2 seconds
know a is a big one that I did a lot of research  on early in my UFO research um I don't remember  
42:09
42 minutes, 9 seconds
exactly where it is but uh in the Caribbean I  believe um if I'm not mistaken um might lose  
42:15
42 minutes, 15 seconds
my euphology badge if I'm wrong no no no but yeah  is that a thing did did you come up with this in  
42:23
42 minutes, 23 seconds
your work like are these things coming out of and  going into like a base of some sort yeah I I think  
42:30
42 minutes, 30 seconds
the answer to that is probably yes so absolutely  this is something that U has to be addressed in  
42:36
42 minutes, 36 seconds
any study of this and I I quite I know that I  have even more that I'll be saying about this  
42:42
42 minutes, 42 seconds
in volumes two and three because it it it's it'll  come up uh but yeah the idea of the base so there  
42:49
42 minutes, 49 seconds
are definite hot spots as we as I mentioned uh  probably in my opinion the number one Hotpot  
42:55
42 minutes, 55 seconds
would go to Puerto Rico in the area just around  that Catalina Island's up there Nova scotia's  
43:01
43 minutes, 1 second
up there and other other parts of the world as  well so then you ask yourself like what is there  
43:07
43 minutes, 7 seconds
evidence that some of these are bases and I think  yes but the the fact is no one I mean can say this  
43:13
43 minutes, 13 seconds
for certain right no one actually absolutely knows  this but there's been a lot of Suspicion for many  
43:19
43 minutes, 19 seconds
years about a base uh just north of Puerto Rico  and around Puerto Rico actually multiple bases um  
43:25
43 minutes, 25 seconds
my first guess for a base might be near or around  the Puerto Rico trench which is just North of  
43:31
43 minutes, 31 seconds
that island that trench goes extremely deep uh us  vessels can we cannot go down there it's it's far  
43:38
43 minutes, 38 seconds
too uh difficult and yet we have Uso cases where  objects have been tracked by the Navy going into  
43:44
43 minutes, 44 seconds
that trench certainly they would we can't we  can't chase them there we can't get down there  
43:51
43 minutes, 51 seconds
uh there's talk Timothy good in in a couple of  his books covered this U unearthly disclosure  
43:57
43 minutes, 57 seconds
and alien base both of those are very fine books  he talked about uh how Puerto Rican researchers  
44:03
44 minutes, 3 seconds
believe there was a base off the west coast of the  island um from like cabar Rojo in the southwest  
44:10
44 minutes, 10 seconds
going out to a little island called Mona Island  there and there's a lot of activity for sure so  
44:17
44 minutes, 17 seconds
I think probably yes it makes sense to me Catalina  Island wouldn't I wouldn't be shocked in the least  
44:24
44 minutes, 24 seconds
if there's some kind of Base uh down there and  when I say a base I can't say that I know exactly  
44:30
44 minutes, 30 seconds
how it operates but I would suspect it would it  be below the ocean floor uh that that would be  
44:37
44 minutes, 37 seconds
that would be the most logical thing like if you  have the ability to excavate below the seabed and  
44:44
44 minutes, 44 seconds
and that can be done I mean it's involved takes  a lot of technology and science and dedication  
44:50
44 minutes, 50 seconds
but it it's not an impossibility uh that would be  a secure environment for you and there could be  
44:56
44 minutes, 56 seconds
very very good motivations especially if you're  if you're a non-human intelligence you are here  
45:03
45 minutes, 3 seconds
let us say you are interested in observing these  human beings and this amazing world that we have  
45:10
45 minutes, 10 seconds
there'd be a lot of reasons you'd want to  be observing monitoring and maybe engaging   with it to some extent where would you go well  these human beings they they look and they see  
45:19
45 minutes, 19 seconds
everything we're very observant we're very nosy  we put we get our sensors and our eyes and ears  
45:25
45 minutes, 25 seconds
everywhere and particular in the last century  we have really gone kind of crazy with that  
45:31
45 minutes, 31 seconds
yeah down in the ocean would be a very reasonable  place that you if you could set up operations you   might do that it would be um quite secure and  also secure from environmental disturbances  
45:41
45 minutes, 41 seconds
as well yeah very good points right I never  really thought about that like we we look at  
45:48
45 minutes, 48 seconds
the UFO phenomenon as a extraterrestrial thing  coming from space often you know maybe that was  
45:55
45 minutes, 55 seconds
the case at one point and and because we started  realizing it and acknowledging it and capturing  
46:02
46 minutes, 2 seconds
it on these crazy things called video cameras and  now cell phones they were like oh boy we got to  
46:08
46 minutes, 8 seconds
hide somewhere else like let's go down where they  aren't looking and where we should be looking for  
46:14
46 minutes, 14 seconds
for things like that and this might be why um you  know I I have very few convincing Uso cases from  
46:22
46 minutes, 22 seconds
ancient times where there are actually some  pretty good aerial UFO or UAP sightings from  
46:29
46 minutes, 29 seconds
ancient times not a lot not as many as some people  think but there's some but the waterbase ones are  
46:35
46 minutes, 35 seconds
hard to find and maybe it's just because uh they  didn't need to go to the hassle of setting up an   under ocean base back then it was easy enough  to set up something above the ground because  
46:45
46 minutes, 45 seconds
we weren't spread out as much we weren't as  invasive as we have become so it's possible  
46:52
46 minutes, 52 seconds
that the Uso phenomenon is itself an adaptation to  our own uh continual technological and scientific
47:01
47 minutes, 1 second
advancement the somewhere in the SKU podcast is  free to listen to every week but if you would  
47:12
47 minutes, 12 seconds
like to help support the show we have a very  active patreon page where you give what you  
47:18
47 minutes, 18 seconds
think the show is worth in return you'll get  early access to the main show bonus episodes  
47:24
47 minutes, 24 seconds
and priority to ask our guests your listener  questions your support truly makes the show  
47:30
47 minutes, 30 seconds
continue and grow so to learn more and to  join visit patreon.com somewere [Music]
47:42
47 minutes, 42 seconds
SKU advancement um I my last question for you  rich and then I have some awesome listener  
47:51
47 minutes, 51 seconds
questions if you're willing stick around thank  you um advancement now the cases like you said  
47:57
47 minutes, 57 seconds
stretch far far back um have you seen an evolution  at all of the technology being displayed by Usos  
48:07
48 minutes, 7 seconds
from like let's say Columbus up to like the  Tic Tac of today or are we seeing like the  
48:14
48 minutes, 14 seconds
same sort of uh phenomena happening like this  term trans medium that's kind of the buzz word  
48:21
48 minutes, 21 seconds
right now and um are do you think we're dealing  with the same phenomenon we dealt with back  
48:27
48 minutes, 27 seconds
during Columbus times than you know and and now  I guess um I would say from the 18th and 19th  
48:35
48 minutes, 35 seconds
centuries onward yes it's the same phenomenon  um I I can C and maybe earlier but definitely  
48:43
48 minutes, 43 seconds
so for example there's a amazing case from 1825  it's pretty early right 200 years ago and uh it  
48:49
48 minutes, 49 seconds
was involving a British uh uh ship uh in the south  in the Pacific Ocean there and and an orange just  
48:58
48 minutes, 58 seconds
like with the 1971 JFK aircraft caras you get  this orange spherical thing that comes out of  
49:04
49 minutes, 4 seconds
the water twice according to the ship's log 3:30  in the morning it's I can't explain that in any  
49:11
49 minutes, 11 seconds
naturalistic way and that's that's a an orange  sphere very much that could have been described  
49:19
49 minutes, 19 seconds
in any 20th or 21st century case so that's quite  consistent and that's transm medium uh and there  
49:26
49 minutes, 26 seconds
are a couple of other decent transm medium cases  at least in my opinion from the 19th century in  
49:31
49 minutes, 31 seconds
fact there are a couple not many but there's a  few and there are a few uh cases from that period  
49:38
49 minutes, 38 seconds
of time that I can't prove that they were transm  median but they they were very low over a large  
49:44
49 minutes, 44 seconds
body of water and I I included some of those cases  and some of them are described like um kind of  
49:52
49 minutes, 52 seconds
like like a craft there's one 1870 over the middle  of the Atlantic Ocean there was a ship and they  
49:59
49 minutes, 59 seconds
said this is not a technical Uso but I included  it it was an aerial object again the they're  
50:06
50 minutes, 6 seconds
like dead center between Brazil and North Africa  like you got a thousand miles of water wherever  
50:11
50 minutes, 11 seconds
you look and this low object under the clouds was  just casually going over their ship which they got  
50:19
50 minutes, 19 seconds
they sought for uh I think 20 30 minutes it was a  while until it just drifted out of sight and look  
50:27
50 minutes, 27 seconds
there's nothing there's no aerial object that's  supposed to be there and it was described in a  
50:32
50 minutes, 32 seconds
very mechanical manner by the captain of the ship  so I think we're talking objects here these are  
50:40
50 minutes, 40 seconds
not all looking like naturalistic amorphous blobs  um certainly through the 20th century there's a  
50:49
50 minutes, 49 seconds
number of these things where they're described as  dis shaped um cigar shaped uh pretty consistently  
50:58
50 minutes, 58 seconds
so what I think changes is their behavior like I  noted the behavioral change of going from Mostly  
51:06
51 minutes, 6 seconds
daytime to mostly nighttime um but in terms of  their appearance no I got to say the appearance  
51:13
51 minutes, 13 seconds
is quite consistent over over a long period of  time fairly consistent that's interesting yeah  
51:20
51 minutes, 20 seconds
okay um cool all right well I'd love to move to  these listener questions if that's cool you bet  
51:27
51 minutes, 27 seconds
oh boy yeah I put a call out for these and I have  not received this many questions in a while so I  
51:33
51 minutes, 33 seconds
did what any uh entrepreneur does rich I went to  patreon First those who support my efforts they  
51:41
51 minutes, 41 seconds
get put at the front of the line to ask questions  so I'm gonna go with our our patreon subscribers  
51:45
51 minutes, 45 seconds
here um our first one comes from um uh epha  pronounced epha she's from Ireland actually um she  
51:54
51 minutes, 54 seconds
wanted to make it clear how to pronounce her name  thank you EA um the famous Nellis Air Force based  
52:01
52 minutes, 1 second
radar tracking case supposedly detected an object  emerging from the ocean do you cover this in your  
52:08
52 minutes, 8 seconds
book at all well okay so that's a little confusing  to me to be honest because when you think of the  
52:13
52 minutes, 13 seconds
famous Nellis case I'm I'm thinking of the 1994  uh tracking of of perhaps an arv over there over  
52:21
52 minutes, 21 seconds
a dry a dry lake um not an actual lake or not a  body of water I mean Nellis Air Force Base is in  
52:27
52 minutes, 27 seconds
the middle of just dry flat ground that's what I  thought so there there's no ocean in that region  
52:33
52 minutes, 33 seconds
that I can think of unless uh epha or this person  is thinking of something totally different that I  
52:38
52 minutes, 38 seconds
can't imagine but Nellis Air Force Base is in uh  the driest of the dry so I'm not I'm not really  
52:46
52 minutes, 46 seconds
sure but the the case that I'm thinking of is  from 1994 that was leaked to the TV show hard   copy a year or two later and that's a heck  of a case I mean that's a fascinating event  
52:56
52 minutes, 56 seconds
that describes an object that to this day is very  difficult to explain conventionally yeah but I I  
53:04
53 minutes, 4 seconds
don't know about the water connection there I'm  sorry right unless it traveled really really far   yeah yeah which is definitely possible um cool  but we have no no information about that being  
53:14
53 minutes, 14 seconds
near body of water to what I'm aware of very yeah  um well okay to kind of play off of that question  
53:22
53 minutes, 22 seconds
then um any really fascinating videos of Usos  in in your research only very recently yeah um  
53:33
53 minutes, 33 seconds
one of these actually was on one of George nap's  uh episodes on his Netflix series I forget the   name of it I watched it it's really good um and  that one's off of uh the West Coast near near the  
53:44
53 minutes, 44 seconds
Channel Islands near at Catalina Island where  uh on his on his video and I think this looks   very compelling you see this light in the distance  coming down to the water and going into the water  
53:54
53 minutes, 54 seconds
and you see the glow of the water after this light  submerged into the water it's quite interesting um  
54:03
54 minutes, 3 seconds
and we have you know we've got some the video that  that Jeremy Corbell was able to get out I think it  
54:07
54 minutes, 7 seconds
was USS Omaha case from 2019 those aren't Usos  but they one of them is where there's one where  
54:14
54 minutes, 14 seconds
the object is seen entering water there so we  have a few that's on thermal cam I believe but  
54:22
54 minutes, 22 seconds
in terms of earlier ones no not not a lot of video  yeah um couple of alleged photographs uh which was  
54:30
54 minutes, 30 seconds
difficult for me in most cases to display my book  for copyright reasons which is why I had a very  
54:37
54 minutes, 37 seconds
good illustrator to do a lot of these for me oh  right we should mention that the the illustrations   in the book too yeah Alan Lavine did really  excellent excellent work fantastic equally great  
54:47
54 minutes, 47 seconds
for the next two volumes they've got really good  depictions of some of these cases but as far as  
54:53
54 minutes, 53 seconds
um video no it's tough you know it's tough I mean  first of all Uso cases are actually rare compared  
55:01
55 minutes, 1 second
to Aerial cases yeah we have to understand it it's  out of it's less than 1% of all of the cases and  
55:10
55 minutes, 10 seconds
I think probably a lot less than one percent just  because we're not out in the water we're just not   there yeah we're Land Based yeah yeah we're  land creatures and so you get a lot of these  
55:20
55 minutes, 20 seconds
Uso cases that attract near ashore which is where  we are and it really begs the question how much  
55:28
55 minutes, 28 seconds
is being uh missed farther out at at se and I'm  sure quite a bit absolutely very good point um  
55:34
55 minutes, 34 seconds
well to play off of the photograph thing Joshua  r on patreon asks the 1971 USS Trang photos have  
55:43
55 minutes, 43 seconds
always intrigued me and other people do you have  any information to corroborate or dismiss these  
55:49
55 minutes, 49 seconds
photos I mean you Google UFO water and these Trang  photos are going to be like the first thing that  
55:56
55 minutes, 56 seconds
yeah they're striking yeah actually I cover this  in the second volume which will be out soon um see  
56:04
56 minutes, 4 seconds
yeah so for people who don't know so this is 1971  the the triang was a a a submarine in the Arctic  
56:11
56 minutes, 11 seconds
Ocean at the time this is in U March of 1971 and  the images first appeared about 10 years ago I  
56:19
56 minutes, 19 seconds
think in 2015 orow around then a uh a researcher  got them from uh uh some Source in Europe and they  
56:28
56 minutes, 28 seconds
were then published in a French magazine and  they got out so uh I don't have them here to  
56:36
56 minutes, 36 seconds
show but they are dramatic there there's a lot of  re I'll throw them up here in uh post production  
56:42
56 minutes, 42 seconds
I'll put one of them up so people can see yeah I  I think I mean I the short answer is I don't know  
56:48
56 minutes, 48 seconds
what I think about these so they're are definitely  reasons to be cautious about the trepang photos um  
56:57
56 minutes, 57 seconds
you know I mean I guess to be expected Admirals  and other Navy personnel have been a contacted  
57:05
57 minutes, 5 seconds
all said no we didn't see anything unusual there  we only saw ice okay so you could you could expect  
57:10
57 minutes, 10 seconds
that um but then you have claims of of photo  manipulation at least that have been put forth  
57:19
57 minutes, 19 seconds
I I look at some of these claims and I I don't  know how convinced I am of that to be perfect  
57:26
57 minutes, 26 seconds
ly honest um I'm lucky because I still have a  little bit of time before the second volume goes  
57:32
57 minutes, 32 seconds
out and I'm still actually that is maybe one of  a few cases that I I'm probably going to go over  
57:39
57 minutes, 39 seconds
one last time before I make a final decision but  U you then you have alternate explanations like  
57:45
57 minutes, 45 seconds
maybe these objects were a naval Target balloon  that was used for weapons testing that that's  
57:50
57 minutes, 50 seconds
probably the biggest conventional explanation  that I've I've heard uh there are historical  
57:56
57 minutes, 56 seconds
photographs of 20th century Naval balloon that  have a resemblance to what you see in the tree  
58:03
58 minutes, 3 seconds
Pang images so that's a possible um one one that  I didn't feel was believable someone talked about  
58:11
58 minutes, 11 seconds
what was it called the uh an an effect that I'd  never heard of before the fata Morana effect uh  
58:19
58 minutes, 19 seconds
that was like photos that might show natural  phenomena looking different yeah like icebergs  
58:27
58 minutes, 27 seconds
looking not like icebergs I I found that bizarre  apparently it's a real thing I I have a very  
58:33
58 minutes, 33 seconds
difficult time thinking that's what we're looking  at here so I don't think that these photos have   been debunked in a conclusive way but I do think  we don't have enough information about the context  
58:44
58 minutes, 44 seconds
of what was going on there that I am confident  knowing what the he heck we were dealing with  
58:49
58 minutes, 49 seconds
here so um it's in the book and it's one of those  know in my opinion all right there you go Joshua  
58:59
58 minutes, 59 seconds
it's in the book I love it um well to piggy back  off of that rich um you know we just had like a  
59:06
59 minutes, 6 seconds
former Navy Admiral rear Admiral uh testify before  Congress about Usos did you talk to Tim galade at  
59:16
59 minutes, 16 seconds
all in the work that you did absolutely yeah no  Tim uh Tim and I actually talked uh on several  
59:24
59 minutes, 24 seconds
occasions and quite a lot of detail in the course  of my doing the research he um was able to provide  
59:31
59 minutes, 31 seconds
commentary on uh on my manuscript and it was  very useful going back and forth with him um  
59:37
59 minutes, 37 seconds
so yeah Tim Tim was a very valuable uh reader for  me for this book cool I I don't know what else to  
59:46
59 minutes, 46 seconds
say about that I mean he's he's interested in this  and I think he's definitely of the of the strong  
59:52
59 minutes, 52 seconds
opinion that this is a real phenomenon for sure  cool um awesome well I guess moving away from Usos  
59:58
59 minutes, 58 seconds
a little bit Melissa t on patreon asks what do you  make of David grush and his new appointment as a  
1:00:07
1 hour, 7 seconds
staffer for representative Burleson's UAP work  yeah what do you make of this new development  
1:00:13
1 hour, 13 seconds
I think I I think it's great um yeah Eric burles  he's um Republican out of Missouri is one of the  
1:00:20
1 hour, 20 seconds
real leaders in Congress pushing for what we can  call UAP transparency uh spoken with him myself I  
1:00:27
1 hour, 27 seconds
think Burleson's uh right on like he's very he's I  think he's very genuinely engaged in this subject  
1:00:34
1 hour, 34 seconds
in a in a positive way so I think it's good that  grush is he's a staffer now uh for Burleson I  
1:00:41
1 hour, 41 seconds
think um it's a temporary assignment like a  few months four months I believe four months  
1:00:45
1 hour, 45 seconds
yeah yeah um and and the reason I think Rush is is  very useful here is he I think he will help first  
1:00:55
1 hour, 55 seconds
of all he knows a lot grush knows more much more  about this than Burleson or any Burleson staffords  
1:01:01
1 hour, 1 minute, 1 second
do so he can uh help I think to maybe navigate  through uh you know the process of like what are  
1:01:10
1 hour, 1 minute, 10 seconds
some good questions in areas of investigation that  burles and Burleson's colleagues can undergo in to  
1:01:17
1 hour, 1 minute, 17 seconds
attempt to look for the goods the assets that uh  Rush has said many times like I know where these  
1:01:25
1 hour, 1 minute, 25 seconds
assets are located at let's go get them and so I  think it's good um I'm hoping that this actually  
1:01:33
1 hour, 1 minute, 33 seconds
leads to some positive outcomes I don't think it's  impossible cool yeahia has an ability to ask good  
1:01:41
1 hour, 1 minute, 41 seconds
questions that Congress might otherwise Overlook  so I think it's very good that he's he's part of  
1:01:46
1 hour, 1 minute, 46 seconds
that process right yeah yeah it maybe it'll turn  into something more full-time or or whatnot we'll  
1:01:53
1 hour, 1 minute, 53 seconds
see we'll see um in your opinion Rich Anthony  on patreon asks what do you think is the most  
1:02:00
1 hour, 2 minutes
credible Uso case from the last decade also what  is the most laughable one that you look at for  
1:02:08
1 hour, 2 minutes, 8 seconds
stress relief do you have any that are just so  bug nuts that you uh you just were like I don't  
1:02:14
1 hour, 2 minutes, 14 seconds
know if I should put this in there well there's  a bunch of there's a number of very good cases  
1:02:20
1 hour, 2 minutes, 20 seconds
that I can think of that are I would say are  credible one thing that I did for this project  
1:02:26
1 hour, 2 minutes, 26 seconds
uh is to create an Evidence rating system uh this  is one of the last things that I did but I I did  
1:02:32
1 hour, 2 minutes, 32 seconds
it for every one of the cases so in other words  I created a set of five criteria by which I would  
1:02:39
1 hour, 2 minutes, 39 seconds
try to measure the strength of the evidence per  se not necessarily like determining if the case  
1:02:47
1 hour, 2 minutes, 47 seconds
is true or not that's a little different you  know a case that comes to you from your from   your grandfather that he told you you know 20  times times before he passed away say and then  
1:02:58
1 hour, 2 minutes, 58 seconds
you tell a researcher in terms of evidence that  might be considered weak but are you going to   not believe it it's your grandfather you're G  to believe him so so a lot of these cases that  
1:03:08
1 hour, 3 minutes, 8 seconds
are weak evidentiary in terms of evidence uh can  be very very true and I've included some of a lot  
1:03:14
1 hour, 3 minutes, 14 seconds
of those on the other hand there are cases that  are in terms of the evidence as rock solid as   you can get uh they are backed by Declassified  government documents or they are backed by let  
1:03:25
1 hour, 3 minutes, 25 seconds
us say Lee of that very very thorough uh outside  investigations that that confirm what happened and  
1:03:32
1 hour, 3 minutes, 32 seconds
we've got a number of those so there's a number  of those even from the last 10 years one really  
1:03:39
1 hour, 3 minutes, 39 seconds
uh let me just do a a weak case I don't know if  it's laughable I don't think any of these are  
1:03:44
1 hour, 3 minutes, 44 seconds
actually laughable right there there probably  were but they were so laughable that I didn't  
1:03:50
1 hour, 3 minutes, 50 seconds
include them in the study and and I therefore  can't probably remember them all that well  
1:03:56
1 hour, 3 minutes, 56 seconds
but there's one this is not from 10 years  ago this is from like around 1970 but uh  
1:04:03
1 hour, 4 minutes, 3 seconds
as I'm recalling it happened around um Idaho's  Snake River this one came to a guy who was at  
1:04:11
1 hour, 4 minutes, 11 seconds
a barber shop that's what it was it was at a  barber like in the 90s I think and the barber  
1:04:17
1 hour, 4 minutes, 17 seconds
is doing his hair and the barber is like yeah  back in the early 70s I was at the Snake River  
1:04:24
1 hour, 4 minutes, 24 seconds
and Ido so it's one of these stories so it's  really like Ultra remote and I just barely  
1:04:29
1 hour, 4 minutes, 29 seconds
decided to include it even though like it's it's  weak but it was interesting enough so the barber
1:04:36
1 hour, 4 minutes, 36 seconds
said I was at the river and this huge object comes  out of the Snake River uh between two towns and  
1:04:48
1 hour, 4 minutes, 48 seconds
I I can't remember what the towns were it's this  will be in my this will have to be in volume two  
1:04:54
1 hour, 4 minutes, 54 seconds
but um anyway the barber who was a younger guy at  the time he was like so unnerved that he he said  
1:05:01
1 hour, 5 minutes, 1 second
I sank my boat engine and all like to destroy  any evidence that I'd been out there like he  
1:05:11
1 hour, 5 minutes, 11 seconds
was so freaked out he said I wanted nothing  to do with this I got rid of my boat I sank  
1:05:16
1 hour, 5 minutes, 16 seconds
my boat um he and he said I told was I told my  son the story but then I said if you ever share  
1:05:25
1 hour, 5 minutes, 25 seconds
this with anyone I will I will beat you until  you're dead something like that so this is the  
1:05:31
1 hour, 5 minutes, 31 seconds
guy so he's older now he's a barber and he tells  this customer in the course of their conversation  
1:05:39
1 hour, 5 minutes, 39 seconds
so uh oh you know what it was no it was the  barber was the son who said my father that's  
1:05:47
1 hour, 5 minutes, 47 seconds
what it was my father had this happen and he  told me the story and he said if I repeat this   to anyone he'll beat me till I'm dead that's  how it was so I was getting a little mixed up  
1:05:55
1 hour, 5 minutes, 55 seconds
but it came from this Barber sometime in the 90s  about his dad in the 70s wow and only after the  
1:06:02
1 hour, 6 minutes, 2 seconds
father died did this Barber feel like he could  tell the story yeah yeah yeah so it's a wacky  
1:06:08
1 hour, 6 minutes, 8 seconds
I mean it's a crazy story but like you know I  I think of it and I don't know I mean who am I  
1:06:16
1 hour, 6 minutes, 16 seconds
to say this is complete nonsense yeah it's just  it's there are so many of these stories that are  
1:06:21
1 hour, 6 minutes, 21 seconds
rattling around in our culture that people have  have had and hang on to and uh I'm actually kind  
1:06:29
1 hour, 6 minutes, 29 seconds
of glad that I didn't remember that perfectly at  first because um that's how a lot of these stories  
1:06:34
1 hour, 6 minutes, 34 seconds
actually are in real life y EXA people get a story  from someone and then they're told the story and  
1:06:41
1 hour, 6 minutes, 41 seconds
you misremember certain things and we've always  got to be careful it doesn't mean that the core is  
1:06:48
1 hour, 6 minutes, 48 seconds
untrue but it could easily mean that a lot of the  details are are probably wrong but still I think  
1:06:54
1 hour, 6 minutes, 54 seconds
you know there's a case to be made that some of  them are interesting as far as recent cases that  
1:06:59
1 hour, 6 minutes, 59 seconds
are really good there's quite a few actually uh  one that I've I've always um been taken by I don't  
1:07:10
1 hour, 7 minutes, 10 seconds
know if this is a rock solid case it's just a good  case in the National UFO Reporting Center that I   I happen to be drawn to and it's from I think uh  2017 that's less than 10 years ago uh you had an  
1:07:21
1 hour, 7 minutes, 21 seconds
oil rigging operation out in the Gulf of Mexico oh  I'm sorry Gulf of of America am I supposed to say  
1:07:27
1 hour, 7 minutes, 27 seconds
G of America now I'm gonna say Gulf of Mexico out  in the Gulf of Mexico out there you had a rigging  
1:07:34
1 hour, 7 minutes, 34 seconds
operations uh we're talking about 80 miles south  uh east of New Orleans so he's out there in the  
1:07:42
1 hour, 7 minutes, 42 seconds
Gulf it's a guy writes into the national efo  Reporting Center he's like I ran uh an oil rig  
1:07:47
1 hour, 7 minutes, 47 seconds
out there offshore offshore rig there was us there  was another rig that was about two miles away from  
1:07:53
1 hour, 7 minutes, 53 seconds
us and a bunch of others in the area and it was  getting towards Sunset we're talking spring of
1:07:58
1 hour, 7 minutes, 58 seconds
2017 and an enormous he like a humongous object  comes out of the water uh disc shaped classic  
1:08:11
1 hour, 8 minutes, 11 seconds
but gargantuan Flying Saucer essentially comes  out of the water he sees the water dripping off  
1:08:16
1 hour, 8 minutes, 16 seconds
the sides uh he and his three or four guys that  he was with saw this Crystal Clear he said it  
1:08:22
1 hour, 8 minutes, 22 seconds
was less than half a mile off of our position  we all saw it it was absolutely immense and it  
1:08:29
1 hour, 8 minutes, 29 seconds
hovered for a few seconds and then he said  it shot off you know faster than a speeding  
1:08:37
1 hour, 8 minutes, 37 seconds
bullet it was just gone he said the guys on the  other rig two miles off had to see this he said  
1:08:43
1 hour, 8 minutes, 43 seconds
my estimate is that you're probably looking at as  many as 50 Witnesses so he wrote to the National  
1:08:49
1 hour, 8 minutes, 49 seconds
UFO Reporting Center this is fully online anyone  can go find it uh Peter Davenport who runs that  
1:08:55
1 hour, 8 minutes, 55 seconds
website uh frequently what you'll find with Peter  is that he will have his own direct communication  
1:09:02
1 hour, 9 minutes, 2 seconds
with these Witnesses of some of these cases that  he finds particularly noteworthy and he had a   very extended back and forth with this witness  and he just provided his own commentary saying  
1:09:12
1 hour, 9 minutes, 12 seconds
I spoke with this man he is clearly of a high  caliber uh I have very high confidence in him  
1:09:18
1 hour, 9 minutes, 18 seconds
Etc so I think I like that case it's uh quite  recent it's quite extraordinary uh it passes  
1:09:26
1 hour, 9 minutes, 26 seconds
it passed Peter Davenport's smell test and  it passes mine I think it probably happens  
1:09:31
1 hour, 9 minutes, 31 seconds
yeah that says a lot that's that's awesome it's  it's good to hear a modern case especially uh  
1:09:38
1 hour, 9 minutes, 38 seconds
dis shake you know yeah yeah oh I'm sure the 20  the 2010s of all of the Decades because I tracked  
1:09:45
1 hour, 9 minutes, 45 seconds
the amount of sightings for each decade uh the  2010s is the second busiest decade of all that  
1:09:50
1 hour, 9 minutes, 50 seconds
I have oh okay colle the number one is the 1970s  Believe it or not pre interet pre- internet we had  
1:09:59
1 hour, 9 minutes, 59 seconds
cool sideburns and some bell bottoms and striped  you know the puffy shirts we had the whole thing  
1:10:04
1 hour, 10 minutes, 4 seconds
happening plus we had the most number of Uso cases  that I found you crazy hippies I love it I love it  
1:10:13
1 hour, 10 minutes, 13 seconds
rich um all right last listener question and I'm  actually gonna tag team this one with Samantha  
1:10:18
1 hour, 10 minutes, 18 seconds
because I have a book behind me if you're watching  this on YouTube it Sanderson Ivan T Sanderson  
1:10:25
1 hour, 10 minutes, 25 seconds
excuse me yep yep and uh this whole theory of  biological UFOs or us you're thinking of his first  
1:10:35
1 hour, 10 minutes, 35 seconds
book so yes that uh called Uninvited uh guest  Uninvited visitors there we go yep I had to look  
1:10:43
1 hour, 10 minutes, 43 seconds
back that's a great love it love it yeah Sanderson  he did he did the he did he was into like  
1:10:49
1 hour, 10 minutes, 49 seconds
Sasquatch and Yeti as well crypto stuff but he did  two excellent and I mean excellent UFO books yeah  
1:10:57
1 hour, 10 minutes, 57 seconds
and they're both unique in their own way so yeah  go on I didn't mean to interrupt you I'm sorry no   not at all um well in reading that book and you  know one of my favorite UFO themed movies that's  
1:11:07
1 hour, 11 minutes, 7 seconds
come out recently was um nope which kind of played  off of that as well um Jordan pe movie uh nope no  
1:11:15
1 hour, 11 minutes, 15 seconds
o the movie I that that's uh the comedian ke um  Jordan Jordan Peele yeah Jordan Peele y yep so he  
1:11:26
1 hour, 11 minutes, 26 seconds
his idea of the UFO he played off of Ivan T  Sanderson like these things are biological  
1:11:32
1 hour, 11 minutes, 32 seconds
they're sentient it did this yeah yeah which  I was like wow man you did your research for  
1:11:37
1 hour, 11 minutes, 37 seconds
this one but um Samantha and I both want to know  Rich um what do you think of that theory and does  
1:11:43
1 hour, 11 minutes, 43 seconds
it play into the Uso thing at all I mean we're  talking water something that has biology to it  
1:11:50
1 hour, 11 minutes, 50 seconds
that we as human beings need to thrive and survive  um do you see the idea of a biological UFO or Uso  
1:12:00
1 hour, 12 minutes
um playing into the theories of these Usos at  all are these things alive I guess our question  
1:12:06
1 hour, 12 minutes, 6 seconds
fantastic that's a great line of inquiry yeah and  uh yeah I think you have to consider it there are  
1:12:13
1 hour, 12 minutes, 13 seconds
cases where you really wonder about these things  so first of all you've got these balls of light  
1:12:20
1 hour, 12 minutes, 20 seconds
with these spheres so now the question is because  we've talked about a few of them is whether or   not there's an actual physical craft or object  inside that glowing sphere and it's hard to know  
1:12:31
1 hour, 12 minutes, 31 seconds
there are cases where those spherical objects are  not illuminated and the witnesses see basically a  
1:12:37
1 hour, 12 minutes, 37 seconds
gunmetal gray reflective ball those are seen so  there are definitely some cases where there are  
1:12:45
1 hour, 12 minutes, 45 seconds
spherical objects that are for all intents and  purposes metallic looking craft those exist but  
1:12:52
1 hour, 12 minutes, 52 seconds
there are other cases where you really wonder are  we just looking at an intelligent light phenomenon  
1:12:59
1 hour, 12 minutes, 59 seconds
is this possible and I think maybe it's possible  I mean some of them some of the cases strike  
1:13:09
1 hour, 13 minutes, 9 seconds
me as that that is a real possibility that you  have what looks like a um an intelligent light  
1:13:17
1 hour, 13 minutes, 17 seconds
phenomenon for lack of a better way of putting it  and so you wonder are these artificially created  
1:13:25
1 hour, 13 minutes, 25 seconds
life forms to use the phrase Loosely are they  naturally occurring life forms to use that phrase  
1:13:31
1 hour, 13 minutes, 31 seconds
Loosely are they naturally occurring non-living  intelligences if we can even imagine what such a  
1:13:36
1 hour, 13 minutes, 36 seconds
thing would be this is where Ivan Sanderson in his  book uh Uninvited visitors it's so great that you  
1:13:43
1 hour, 13 minutes, 43 seconds
and and U is it Stephanie uh Samantha Samantha I'm  so sorry brought this up because Sanderson writes  
1:13:50
1 hour, 13 minutes, 50 seconds
out all of these different possibilities living  non-living artificially created naturally forming  
1:13:58
1 hour, 13 minutes, 58 seconds
and all of these different things and he creates  this very interesting flowchart of possibilities  
1:14:04
1 hour, 14 minutes, 4 seconds
of what these UAP are and I think you C you  can definitely make the case that these craft  
1:14:13
1 hour, 14 minutes, 13 seconds
themselves may have an intelligence of their own  independent of any operators like we tend to think  
1:14:22
1 hour, 14 minutes, 22 seconds
you know I'm going to build a craft and I'm the  operator of the craft the craft is just doing what   I tell it but could you create a craft that has  its own volition its own intelligence well we're  
1:14:32
1 hour, 14 minutes, 32 seconds
very Advanced with artificial intelligence now  today and where where does Consciousness actually  
1:14:37
1 hour, 14 minutes, 37 seconds
begin when you're talking about AI this is a very  active question that we have in our world so is it  
1:14:43
1 hour, 14 minutes, 43 seconds
possible that you're dealing with an object that  has highly Advanced conscious AI to it there's a  
1:14:52
1 hour, 14 minutes, 52 seconds
possibility that's not quite the same as being  alive but could it be biological in some sense  
1:14:57
1 hour, 14 minutes, 57 seconds
well we're now at the point of creating cybernetic  organisms that are biological plus uh some  
1:15:03
1 hour, 15 minutes, 3 seconds
artificial component so it's getting kind of fuzzy  yeah in terms of what what what's alive and what's  
1:15:12
1 hour, 15 minutes, 12 seconds
not alive and I have a feeling as we move forward  into our future we're going to be bumping into  
1:15:18
1 hour, 15 minutes, 18 seconds
that fuzziness more and more and and it wouldn't  surprise me if some of these objects whether Usos  
1:15:24
1 hour, 15 minutes, 24 seconds
or or aerial UAP fit that pattern like there's  there's a kind of biological living aspect to them  
1:15:33
1 hour, 15 minutes, 33 seconds
but a machine aspect to them as well and whether  they're actual natural biological organisms I I  
1:15:40
1 hour, 15 minutes, 40 seconds
couldn't say I'm not inclined to see that but  I could not rule it out Singularity baby it's  
1:15:48
1 hour, 15 minutes, 48 seconds
upon us it's going to happen yeah yeah it's an  interesting Theory it's definitely a good thought  
1:15:54
1 hour, 15 minutes, 54 seconds
experiment because we don't know what Usos are or  aren't at this point and you know with these next  
1:16:00
1 hour, 16 minutes
three volumes of your books we will get closer  and we now have data to work off of so that's  
1:16:07
1 hour, 16 minutes, 7 seconds
exciting Rich um well yeah to kind of wrap things  up um Neil wants to know on patreon do you have a  
1:16:14
1 hour, 16 minutes, 14 seconds
date for an audio book I'm eagerly awaiting and  I hope Richard does the reading okay two things  
1:16:22
1 hour, 16 minutes, 22 seconds
so um I won't be doing the reading of this people  have to understand it's a lot of work uh it's i'  
1:16:31
1 hour, 16 minutes, 31 seconds
I have done readings of um one of my books UFOs  for the 21st century mind that was a lot of work  
1:16:37
1 hour, 16 minutes, 37 seconds
and I am still trying to complete the reading  of volume two of UFOs and the National Security  
1:16:43
1 hour, 16 minutes, 43 seconds
St wow that's a 600 page book that already  broke two other audiobook readers in the past  
1:16:49
1 hour, 16 minutes, 49 seconds
they actually had to give up it's too long so I I  have to do it myself and it's just a lot of work  
1:16:55
1 hour, 16 minutes, 55 seconds
uh it's for me it's brutal so the Uso books I  I just cannot I wish I could but we have hired  
1:17:02
1 hour, 17 minutes, 2 seconds
a very fine a very excellent reader of this  Uso volume I have been going back and forth  
1:17:09
1 hour, 17 minutes, 9 seconds
with him and he is telling me I've got many of  the chapters back from him they sound great uh  
1:17:15
1 hour, 17 minutes, 15 seconds
I think think I don't want to give an exact date  I'm hoping even within a week it's not impossible  
1:17:22
1 hour, 17 minutes, 22 seconds
he has said to me I've got the good we're going to  get it for you um he's worked pretty fast we had a  
1:17:29
1 hour, 17 minutes, 29 seconds
couple of bumps in the road so yes the audiobook  there will be an audiobook for all three of these  
1:17:35
1 hour, 17 minutes, 35 seconds
volumes and um I had to decide like did I want to  wait for the audiobook to be done before I publish  
1:17:40
1 hour, 17 minutes, 40 seconds
the other three versions and I could have done  that but I I opted to to publish the hard cover  
1:17:46
1 hour, 17 minutes, 46 seconds
paperback and ebook uh essentially all at once  and the audiobook will be out a little more than  
1:17:53
1 hour, 17 minutes, 53 seconds
a month later okay okay that's AIO pretty soon  from from when we're talking yeah I I think it  
1:18:00
1 hour, 18 minutes
will it could be out within a week I'm I'm very  much hoping that it will be out within a week   all right if it's not then I apologize but we're  we're pushing as fast as we can awesome awesome  
1:18:11
1 hour, 18 minutes, 11 seconds
um well speaking of volume two I mean people are  still probably making their way through volume  
1:18:17
1 hour, 18 minutes, 17 seconds
one now I still am to but um when can we expect  volume two do you have a release for that yeah I  
1:18:24
1 hour, 18 minutes, 24 seconds
I was actually hoping I'd space him two to three  months apart it might be three to four months  
1:18:29
1 hour, 18 minutes, 29 seconds
apart between but absolutely like all of the cases  for all three volumes have been written out all of  
1:18:35
1 hour, 18 minutes, 35 seconds
the data analysis for all them is has been done  um I may yet add a couple of cases to the third  
1:18:43
1 hour, 18 minutes, 43 seconds
volume which is uh covers from 1990 to the present  um when I stopped we were not quite done with 2024  
1:18:51
1 hour, 18 minutes, 51 seconds
and I may I may pull up a few of those cases in  2025 is well but re really what I need to do with  
1:18:58
1 hour, 18 minutes, 58 seconds
the other two books is simply organize them into  into proper chapters write a proper introduction  
1:19:02
1 hour, 19 minutes, 2 seconds
and conclusion for them uh index them you know all  of the little publishing things that are necessary  
1:19:10
1 hour, 19 minutes, 10 seconds
to wrap it up the content is all done though so  we're not talking years we're talking months that  
1:19:16
1 hour, 19 minutes, 16 seconds
is a massive undertaking I don't even know how you  could do that um that's amazing it shocked me yeah  
1:19:25
1 hour, 19 minutes, 25 seconds
each each of the volumes is about 400 pages so  we're talking about 1200 Pages yeah hey I mean  
1:19:30
1 hour, 19 minutes, 30 seconds
it's a lot when you love what you do it's it's not  work so yeah yeah I mean it's still we all want  
1:19:38
1 hour, 19 minutes, 38 seconds
to make our dollar I you know we all do but but  really if you're gonna do a project you have to do  
1:19:43
1 hour, 19 minutes, 43 seconds
it either out of love or out of hate or both and  for me that's the cas so you I love this subject  
1:19:49
1 hour, 19 minutes, 49 seconds
there are times and I hate it because it's just  like it's difficult at times but uh honestly it's  
1:19:56
1 hour, 19 minutes, 56 seconds
it's been an absolutely one of the most rewarding  projects I've ever engaged in oh good that's  
1:20:01
1 hour, 20 minutes, 1 second
really good to hear yes and I can definitely  empathize with the LoveHate Thing um well last  
1:20:07
1 hour, 20 minutes, 7 seconds
question what do you hope people will take away  from Usos I mean this is again a topic that is  
1:20:13
1 hour, 20 minutes, 13 seconds
probably going to be new to a lot of our listeners  and viewers um what do you hope people take away  
1:20:18
1 hour, 20 minutes, 18 seconds
from volume one and I guess the overall project of  Usos yeah there's there's so much involved first  
1:20:26
1 hour, 20 minutes, 26 seconds
of all I I want people to understand that this  is a a legitimate aspect of the greater UFO or  
1:20:32
1 hour, 20 minutes, 32 seconds
UAP phenomenon it's Usos are a real thing they  have um they are around the world they are in  
1:20:39
1 hour, 20 minutes, 39 seconds
every major body of water oceans lakes and rivers  all of them uh they are there's not a place in  
1:20:48
1 hour, 20 minutes, 48 seconds
this planet where they they haven't been seen  to appear so there's that uh also that the the  
1:20:55
1 hour, 20 minutes, 55 seconds
evidence for them are good are very good I would  say in in certain cases in terms of evidence I  
1:21:03
1 hour, 21 minutes, 3 seconds
would rank as absolutely certain that there's  no doubt whatsoever that these things happen so   that's one thing the other thing that I try to do  in this book uh particularly in the introductions  
1:21:13
1 hour, 21 minutes, 13 seconds
I write to each chapter and the introduction to  the book itself is I'm very happy to speculate on  
1:21:20
1 hour, 21 minutes, 20 seconds
the these other beings themselves one thing that  I I not is that I think they are they and we are  
1:21:28
1 hour, 21 minutes, 28 seconds
doing a kind of of dance in the ocean as it were  they see us and we are seeing them now and and  
1:21:37
1 hour, 21 minutes, 37 seconds
and we didn't see them immediately all all the  time we've learned about them through degrees  
1:21:44
1 hour, 21 minutes, 44 seconds
mainly through the course of the 20th century as  we spread ourselves out into the waters and so one  
1:21:51
1 hour, 21 minutes, 51 seconds
of the things that strikes me is the adaptations  that they must have engaged in during the course  
1:21:56
1 hour, 21 minutes, 56 seconds
of the 20th and 21st century so for example we  didn't have an ability even to have workable  
1:22:03
1 hour, 22 minutes, 3 seconds
submarines in the water until around the year  1900 like a submarine that actually worked like  
1:22:09
1 hour, 22 minutes, 9 seconds
that actually was useful was in near 1900 so we  were just taking baby steps we developed sonar uh  
1:22:16
1 hour, 22 minutes, 16 seconds
later in that Century mainly during the first  world war we started to develop an ability to  
1:22:21
1 hour, 22 minutes, 21 seconds
have a little bit of uh ability to see below the  water as it were but that those were baby steps  
1:22:29
1 hour, 22 minutes, 29 seconds
they would have been watching us through the  20th century they would have seen us in World   War II um engage in a global mass murder of of  our own species and also take over the oceans  
1:22:40
1 hour, 22 minutes, 40 seconds
in the process uh they would have seen us in  the mid-50s develop nuclear submarines that can   stay under the water basically forever they would  have noticed we would been putting in underwater  
1:22:51
1 hour, 22 minutes, 51 seconds
U surveillance systems starting in the 1950s by  which were detecting sonar acoustic signals and  
1:22:57
1 hour, 22 minutes, 57 seconds
deciphering those looking for Russian Subs but  also detecting other anomalies they would have  
1:23:03
1 hour, 23 minutes, 3 seconds
seen all of us they would have seen that we would  be putting satellites up in Earth orbit in the in   the 50s and 60s they would have noticed that  these humans are going through a technological  
1:23:14
1 hour, 23 minutes, 14 seconds
Revolution that they would have to adapt to this  is what I believe like I I tended to think in the  
1:23:21
1 hour, 23 minutes, 21 seconds
past I I did not tend to think of in terms of  alien adaptation you know because when when you  
1:23:26
1 hour, 23 minutes, 26 seconds
look at the UFO subject you tend to think they're  so far Advanced they don't have to worry about  
1:23:31
1 hour, 23 minutes, 31 seconds
us but I don't think that's true now I think yes  they are Advanced but we we have become much more  
1:23:38
1 hour, 23 minutes, 38 seconds
advanced than we ever were and we have developed  a far greater ability to detect anomalies than  
1:23:44
1 hour, 23 minutes, 44 seconds
ever before so this actually I think has caused  an adaptation on their part so that's that's a  
1:23:50
1 hour, 23 minutes, 50 seconds
takeaway that I think I I want people to uh grasp  which is that this is not a static phenomenon it's  
1:23:57
1 hour, 23 minutes, 57 seconds
a dynamic phenomenon where we are we are seeing  each other and yet the conversation is not yet out  
1:24:04
1 hour, 24 minutes, 4 seconds
in the public realm where we're actively talking  about this to ourselves it it's more like you've  
1:24:11
1 hour, 24 minutes, 11 seconds
got a classified portion of humanity that is very  actively engaged in watching them and and they're  
1:24:18
1 hour, 24 minutes, 18 seconds
in there in the water they're in the atmosphere  as well and they know that a portion of us are  
1:24:23
1 hour, 24 minutes, 23 seconds
well aware of them so it's a very interesting  Dynamic very interesting story I love that a  
1:24:30
1 hour, 24 minutes, 30 seconds
dance in the ocean I I love that phrase I'm gonna  I'm gonna carry that with me um where where can  
1:24:36
1 hour, 24 minutes, 36 seconds
we find the book Rich yeah um well Amazon is  uh it's available as an ebook paperback and  
1:24:44
1 hour, 24 minutes, 44 seconds
hard cover on Amazon I try to get the price down  as much as I could for the hard cover but it is  
1:24:49
1 hour, 24 minutes, 49 seconds
pricey uh that's because the illustrations  are are full color they are beautiful  
1:24:54
1 hour, 24 minutes, 54 seconds
and there was no way I could get around it the  ebook is a nice uh 10 bucks easy cheap download  
1:25:00
1 hour, 25 minutes
uh and it's got beautiful color illustrations  just like the books um you can go on Amazon   just type in Dolan Uso and you'll find it or go  to my website which is Richard Doan members.com  
1:25:10
1 hour, 25 minutes, 10 seconds
uh that's got a nice big banner link for for the  books on Amazon and people can also see what I'm  
1:25:16
1 hour, 25 minutes, 16 seconds
up to in um other things that I do at that site  yeah absolutely go check it out guys we'll have  
1:25:22
1 hour, 25 minutes, 22 seconds
links in the show notes for the book book for your  website and everything again the book is a history  
1:25:28
1 hour, 25 minutes, 28 seconds
of Uso's unidentified submerged objects volume one  to be continued yeah so rich I gotta thank you man  
1:25:37
1 hour, 25 minutes, 37 seconds
this has been an very insightful conversation  Usos like I said hold such a special place in  
1:25:43
1 hour, 25 minutes, 43 seconds
my heart when it comes to why I got involved with  this topic to begin with so thank you absolutely  
1:25:49
1 hour, 25 minutes, 49 seconds
and um it's been a pleasure Ryan I've enjoyed  it very much I'll happily come back anytime