0:50
50 seconds
This is somewhere [music] in  the skies with Ryan Sprague.
0:58
58 seconds
Really glad you saw the film. Yes. And that you  had a cameo appearance. [laughter] I made it in  
1:06
1 minute, 6 seconds
I hiked up to the spot, you know, that was cool.  It was Let's start there, James. Guys, I'm with  
1:12
1 minute, 12 seconds
James Fox, filmmaker of The Phenomenon, Moment of  Contact, many films before that, but we're going  
1:19
1 minute, 19 seconds
to be talking today about his brand new film,  The Program. But I Let's start there, James.  
1:25
1 minute, 25 seconds
We had the opportunity to actually hike up in the  hills of Calvin in Scotland. We were with a drone.  
1:33
1 minute, 33 seconds
Oh man, that was an adventure, an experience. In  fact, we were went with former RAF press officer  
1:39
1 minute, 39 seconds
Craig Lindsay. So Remember the Remember the car  ride with Craig Lindsay, how awesome that was?   I will never forget that, and I was wondering  if any of that would make it into the film,  
1:49
1 minute, 49 seconds
cuz you as a filmmaker, you're always filming.  And I remember you actually had a camera on us   when we were talking. But uh I did, and I really  got sometimes I look back on things and I think,  
2:00
2 minutes
"Why didn't I put that in there?" [laughter] Well,  you can only put so much in. Like, that's the   curse of being a filmmaker. You could only put so  much stuff in, and I had it kind of mapped out in  
2:10
2 minutes, 10 seconds
my head. I mean, I do everything kind of by the  seat of my pants. Anybody who's worked with me   in the field's like, "Jeez, this is pretty uh  this is a pretty unusual style of filmmaking.  
2:20
2 minutes, 20 seconds
You're just winging it." [laughter] But the  thing about that is is that I'm legitimately  
2:26
2 minutes, 26 seconds
in the field documenting what's happening while  it's happening. I'm not staging things, right?   Right. So, when I'm learning about things, you're  actually seeing me learn about cases and and  
2:37
2 minutes, 37 seconds
and and legislation and all that stuff, you  know? So, I think that's one of the reasons why  
2:44
2 minutes, 44 seconds
people seem to like the documentaries cuz they're  they're not staged. They're very it's very real.  
2:48
2 minutes, 48 seconds
Right. And, you know, we were talking off air. I'm  filming my first documentary, directly inspired by  
2:56
2 minutes, 56 seconds
words you gave me while you were here in Scotland.  And I would have to agree, like as I was filming,  
3:03
3 minutes, 3 seconds
things were happening. People I I was interviewing  were like, "You should talk to this person." Or,  
3:09
3 minutes, 9 seconds
"Oh, you didn't hear about that? You need to go  pursue that." And it's amazing. You can go in with  
3:14
3 minutes, 14 seconds
an idea about what the film is going to be about,  and then it'll completely change. Like you said,  
3:20
3 minutes, 20 seconds
the more you interview people, uh things were  evolving in the world of UFOs as you were filming  
3:27
3 minutes, 27 seconds
the program. You were able to get a lot of  that in. But yeah, let's talk about that. Well,   I Well, I finished the rough cut, and I  wasn't terribly I'm never really pleased  
3:36
3 minutes, 36 seconds
with a rough cut, right? You got to you got to  get somewhere, right? And so, got the rough cut   down. I'm looking at it. I'm like, "Uh I really  need some fresh eyeballs on this." And there  
3:45
3 minutes, 45 seconds
were some updates. There were additional people  coming forward. So, you know, all right, time out.   You know, stop editing. Let me walk away from this  film for a little bit. Let me bring in some fresh  
3:56
3 minutes, 56 seconds
eyeballs. Lance Mungia came on on board. He's  a great guy. Yes. Super technically savvy and  
4:02
4 minutes, 2 seconds
and creative and just a wonderful hard-working  guy, man. He willing to put in like 17-hour days.   Anyway, uh and I went and did some additional  filming. I went to DC. I went to Pennsylvania. Um  
4:12
4 minutes, 12 seconds
And then there was a guy uh that had just  stepped down from his position, Kirk McConnell,   Senate Armed Services Committee, who was  contemplating coming forward. And so I long  
4:22
4 minutes, 22 seconds
story short, I ended up flying him in from DC to  right here, where we are now, where I'm sitting.  
4:28
4 minutes, 28 seconds
And uh conducted an interview with him very last  minute, last minute. Yeah. You know, and then we   were also waiting on uh additional information  that was coming in about the Calvin 1990 Calvin  
4:38
4 minutes, 38 seconds
UFO case, right? And we managed, thank you David  Clark, to get uh Wyatt um uh Richard Greaves,  
4:45
4 minutes, 45 seconds
who was one of the workers in the in the kitchen  uh with the alleged uh photographers. So, uh with  
4:53
4 minutes, 53 seconds
And that was amazing. It was the last thing that  we squeezed in at the very last minute that we   were not anticipating happening and it was just  In my opinion, it's one of the best moments in the  
5:02
5 minutes, 2 seconds
whole movie. Yeah, so I mean, we won't give away  what you were able to uncover uh when it comes  
5:09
5 minutes, 9 seconds
to the Calvin case and the primary witnesses and  uh and what happened with that. We'll let people  
5:15
5 minutes, 15 seconds
see that for themselves. But when you sent that  to me, I was pretty stunned. I'm like people have  
5:20
5 minutes, 20 seconds
been looking for these guys forever. And again,  like we'll leave it up to the viewer to decide.  
5:27
5 minutes, 27 seconds
Uh but yeah, if if this is what um is actually  happening and what you've uncovered is real,  
5:35
5 minutes, 35 seconds
uh we are one step closer to uh finding  the witnesses, the original witnesses. So I  
5:41
5 minutes, 41 seconds
I love I have the names now. Mhm. I don't  think I'm going to reveal them uh publicly,  
5:46
5 minutes, 46 seconds
but I have both their names. And I remember the  quote that uh Richard Greaves gives. That it's  
5:54
5 minutes, 54 seconds
just like I think I want to make a t-shirt. He  goes, "I made poached eggs. They made toast."  
6:00
6 minutes
You remember [laughter] that? He's like, "I  was toast. I worked with them in the kitchen.   I made poached eggs. They made toast."  Trust me, man. That accent I I hear that  
6:11
6 minutes, 11 seconds
accent every day and it never gets easier, but  yeah. [laughter] Some awesome stuff on Calvin,  
6:17
6 minutes, 17 seconds
but let's rewind a little bit. Now, it's called  The Program. So, for those watching, listening,  
6:23
6 minutes, 23 seconds
um let's kind of summarize what that is, why you  chose to use that title, um what kind of sets  
6:30
6 minutes, 30 seconds
this apart from something like The Phenomenon,  which was like this broad-sweeping historical  
6:36
6 minutes, 36 seconds
look at the entire uh topic of UFOs when it comes  to government involvement, um personal witnesses.  
6:44
6 minutes, 44 seconds
And now fast-forward to 2024 and now we're having  UFO hearings and we're learning some pretty  
6:50
6 minutes, 50 seconds
sensational uh and bold claims by people.  So, what is The Program in your words? So,  
6:57
6 minutes, 57 seconds
I always like have to have a working title and  the title usually comes to me in the edit room   and I kept hearing Intel folks talk about the  program. Oh, I knew about the program or oh,  
7:07
7 minutes, 7 seconds
he was involved with the program or if I told you  what I knew about the program and I was like, "The   Program, hmm. I really like that. It's catchy."  Of course, there are other things out there called  
7:17
7 minutes, 17 seconds
The Program as well. That's inevitable. You can't  You can't copyright a title, right? Right. And so,   but there's other other titles out there for Out  of the Blue. I've seen other things out there for  
7:26
7 minutes, 26 seconds
I Know What I Saw. So be it, you know, it's a  shared title. But The Program came because of  
7:33
7 minutes, 33 seconds
the fact that several people within the film kept  referring to it as The Program and that's I guess  
7:39
7 minutes, 39 seconds
the involvement with with the UAP phenomenon  or yeah, UFOs. So, the program. You know,  
7:46
7 minutes, 46 seconds
we had this most recent UFO hearing where Michael  Shellenberger a freelance journalist came forward  
7:52
7 minutes, 52 seconds
and said that he learned about something called  Immaculate Constellation. You know, could this be  
7:59
7 minutes, 59 seconds
the program? Could other things be considered  the program? We just don't know. Every you know,  
8:05
8 minutes, 5 seconds
in the public we we know so little about what  these clandestine programs could actually be.  
8:12
8 minutes, 12 seconds
But for you as the filmmaker as  you're interviewing these insiders,   you had Christopher Mellon in the movie,  Dr. Gary Nolan who's actually studied  
8:23
8 minutes, 23 seconds
possible remnants of these craft that are have  said to have come from these programs. I mean,   my head was spinning with with the people that  you were interviewing in this thing. So, in your  
8:34
8 minutes, 34 seconds
opinion can does what Michael Shellenberger what  he brought forward with Immaculate Constellation?  
8:40
8 minutes, 40 seconds
Does what you uncovered lend any credence to what  he's claiming before the halls of Congress? So,  
8:48
8 minutes, 48 seconds
right before right before coming on your  show, just 10 minutes 10 minutes ago, I was in  
8:55
8 minutes, 55 seconds
correspondence on signal with an individual who  appears in the film as Navy X. Navy X is has set  
9:07
9 minutes, 7 seconds
Navy X reached out to me right after I went and  did that NASA stunt. I basically got into NASA  
9:16
9 minutes, 16 seconds
um That's a story in itself. We could save that  for a later date. But got into got into NASA  
9:22
9 minutes, 22 seconds
and and it was all publicized. It was broadcast  live. And after that you know, that stunt I get  
9:31
9 minutes, 31 seconds
a message from a gentleman who's contemplating  coming forward but wants to do it anonymously.  
9:35
9 minutes, 35 seconds
Um we met. We went on and did the interview and he  this individual revealed that there is a database  
9:43
9 minutes, 43 seconds
of high resolution 4K imagery of UAP coming  down from space, coming in out of the oceans,  
9:50
9 minutes, 50 seconds
performing exhibiting a technology that's just  light-years advanced from anything that we   that we have now or certainly, you know, didn't  have 80 years ago. You know, the objects that  
10:00
10 minutes
don't have any wings or any tail, uh,  don't make any noise, no air disturbance,   have the ability to hover, accelerate from a  standstill out of sight in the blink of an eye,  
10:09
10 minutes, 9 seconds
um, transmedium, go underwater, come out,  right? So, it's atmosphere up in the atmosphere  
10:14
10 minutes, 14 seconds
or up in space. Um, and so he described and he  gave as much details as he could as to where  
10:21
10 minutes, 21 seconds
these can be found for members of Congress, people  that are looking for this type of of of data. Um,  
10:27
10 minutes, 27 seconds
and so when I heard about Immaculate Conception,  which, you know, it made kind of sense to me  
10:34
10 minutes, 34 seconds
because I've heard from numerous Intel folks that  stuff does exist. It's one of the things that I   addressed within the movie. So, whether that has  the name Immaculate Conception or not, I don't  
10:44
10 minutes, 44 seconds
know. Michael Shellenberger, I trust his instincts  and and his, um, journalistic, uh, integrity. So,  
10:52
10 minutes, 52 seconds
um, and I know that there are members of Congress  that know who that individual is. They vetted him.   So, uh, it could very well be Immaculate  Conception, but again, I don't know. Yeah.  
11:02
11 minutes, 2 seconds
But we do know there's a body of much better data,  sensory data, overhead collection data, satellite  
11:10
11 minutes, 10 seconds
imagery, that things of that nature. That's one  of the things that we really wanted to hammer home   because you see, you know, people within the  scientific community like Neil deGrasse Tyson,  
11:19
11 minutes, 19 seconds
you know, mocking the lack of better data and  it's frustrating for those who are talking to   people on the inside that say, "Yes, it exists,  but it's classified and we can't release it."  
11:29
11 minutes, 29 seconds
Right. Well, okay. So, you talked about NASA. Um,  I remember watching the live stream of their UAP  
11:38
11 minutes, 38 seconds
study group press conference. And then, you know,  they asked for questions from the audience. And   then, boom, there's James Fox, one of the first  up to ask a question. You were able to film it,  
11:47
11 minutes, 47 seconds
get it in your documentary as well. And you  had like even the director of NASA at the time.  
11:54
11 minutes, 54 seconds
You were literally interacting with him. What  was that like? Yeah. It was fantastic. You know,  
12:00
12 minutes
it's funny. I I I got thrown off a little bit  because I was trying to get I was trying to get  
12:05
12 minutes, 5 seconds
in. I had It's I had somebody put me on the on  the on the press list. But I wasn't really press.  
12:12
12 minutes, 12 seconds
And I had this old press badge that I used when I  was filming pretty slick that documentary on the  
12:18
12 minutes, 18 seconds
BP oil spill back in 2010. And I looked [laughter]  so much younger. It's a little baby face.  
12:24
12 minutes, 24 seconds
It's totally expired. But I was like, you know,  at a distance, if it's just, you know, attached to   your hip, you know, you just kind of glance at it.  Okay, maybe that's going to be cool kind of thing.  
12:33
12 minutes, 33 seconds
But there's this guy who looked like he worked  with NASA, but he was armed. He had a gun. And  
12:39
12 minutes, 39 seconds
and he was quite aggressively like trying  to screen me. And I was trying to get all   the gear. It was all very chaotic. It was going  to start. And I had tripods, camera gear, and  
12:49
12 minutes, 49 seconds
trying to get through security and the metal  detectors. I'm having to strip my body and   take things out of my pockets. But this guy was  like I remember thinking this is This guy's like  
12:56
12 minutes, 56 seconds
my damn shadow. Like every time I move, he's right  there like asking me questions. Well, who are you   with? Like what organization are you with? And  I was thinking to myself, this guy just doesn't  
13:06
13 minutes, 6 seconds
want me in there for some reason. He just I don't  know. And and then finally, the woman who had the   roster, she's like, "Mr. Fox is on the list.  He's on the list." You know, Brian Bender with  
13:16
13 minutes, 16 seconds
formerly with Politico had made some phone calls  and pulled some strings and got me in there. Thank   you, Brian Bender. And and so, reluctantly,  but I could see that guy when I was on stage,  
13:26
13 minutes, 26 seconds
kind of looking at me. And I'm, you know, I'm  going after Bill Nelson, the head of NASA, right?  
13:32
13 minutes, 32 seconds
I It's like, you know, hey, how can you say what  something isn't when you don't know what it is,  
13:39
13 minutes, 39 seconds
you know? And it's like, you know, and then what's  the plan? What's the plan for telling the public?  
13:46
13 minutes, 46 seconds
Is there one? Because you can't be studying the  unidentified anomalous phenomena. You can't be  
13:50
13 minutes, 50 seconds
studying UFOs, right? In an official capacity and  not be preparing if it leads to some of these are,  
13:58
13 minutes, 58 seconds
you know, originate from non-human intelligence.  The prepare to how to tell the public. Who does   that? Who does that? Whose job is that? And And  they don't have a plan. They clearly don't have  
14:08
14 minutes, 8 seconds
a plan. But it was kind of funny. He's like,  you bet your boots. You remember? [laughter]   You bet your boots. I'm seeing some pictures  coming out of this movie. I'm thinking poached  
14:17
14 minutes, 17 seconds
eggs and toast. You bet your [laughter] boots. I  don't know. I'm just having fun with it, you know.   Absolutely, man. You have to. You have to in this  topic. Even when, you know, the content itself  
14:27
14 minutes, 27 seconds
and the the implication is very serious. Like if  we're if we can't laugh at the ridiculous nature  
14:34
14 minutes, 34 seconds
sometimes of the phenomena itself and the culture  that sprung up around it, people like us even,  
14:41
14 minutes, 41 seconds
um if you can't laugh at yourself, what the  hell's the point in my opinion? I could not   agree more. I I actually shared a a funny story  yesterday on one of the podcasts because I was  
14:51
14 minutes, 51 seconds
in my late 20s and I just landed an interview  with Edgar Mitchell. Right. Uh Apollo Apollo 14,   sixth man to walk on the moon. And I mean, it was  a huge moment in my career. You could imagine,  
15:01
15 minutes, 1 second
right? Here I am sitting down with a guy who  walked on the moon at his home in Florida.   And uh it was funny. There was  two things very memorable. One was  
15:10
15 minutes, 10 seconds
uh I I I said to him, and I'd written countless  letters letters cuz back then we didn't have I  
15:16
15 minutes, 16 seconds
don't think we had email. Maybe we just started  having email. But in any case, um I'm for years   I was trying to get interviews with him. My god,  I couldn't believe it. I just got denied, denied,  
15:25
15 minutes, 25 seconds
denied, denied, denied. And then finally he met  with me and I said to him while we were shooting   some B-roll walking out in his in the pasture, I  said um Dr. Mitchell, you know, what ultimately uh  
15:37
15 minutes, 37 seconds
uh caused you to decide to to finally meet  with me? I was expecting some profound,   you know, answer. He was impressed  with this or that. And he goes, "Well,  
15:46
15 minutes, 46 seconds
you know, James, I realized you just weren't  going away." [laughter] But But then we go,  
15:51
15 minutes, 51 seconds
we sit down and he's like, he's like, "Well,  Mr. James, what would you like me to wear?"   And before I had a chance to filter what came out  of my mouth, I said, "How about a pink nighty?"  
16:01
16 minutes, 1 second
And I was like, "Oh my god, I can't believe  I just said that." It's over, right? I  
16:07
16 minutes, 7 seconds
And then he just roared with laughter and he fell  and I thought, "Thank god this guy has a sense   of humor, you know?" Because I just put my foot  [laughter] in my mouth. A pink nighty. Oh, it's  
16:20
16 minutes, 20 seconds
That's pretty good, man. Wow. add to the  the credibility factor. He had a great  
16:26
16 minutes, 26 seconds
sense of humor about it. I got to hand  it to the guy. I love it. Yeah. Well,  
16:31
16 minutes, 31 seconds
so you know, yeah, we can we can laugh about  it. I'm sure you've got some great stories  
16:37
16 minutes, 37 seconds
of behind the scenes of filming some of these  interviews, but you you have some interviews that   are exclusive. People who've never been  filmed, been on camera before talking about  
16:47
16 minutes, 47 seconds
this topic. You mentioned one of them earlier,  someone from the Armed Services Committee.   Um, but never gone on camera before. Yeah,  right. Right. So, tell us a little about some  
16:56
16 minutes, 56 seconds
of the people in the movie who we should really be  paying attention to. Well, I'd say Lenval Logan.   Um, he was part of the task force. I think it was  when it was the task force. I don't think it was  
17:06
17 minutes, 6 seconds
I don't think it was part of Arrow. I think it  was Jay Stratton in the UAP Task Force post um  
17:13
17 minutes, 13 seconds
uh post AATIP, but don't quote me on that.  But he was definitely part of the task force   with Jay Stratton. Um he'd never come  forward before as far as Yeah, you know,  
17:22
17 minutes, 22 seconds
he's definitely never been on camera before. Um  Kirk McConnell, and he you know, look, he says,   "I'll do the best I can and say as much as  I can without violating my security oath." I  
17:33
17 minutes, 33 seconds
you know, I have to be very careful. And in  fact, I had to take the segments they appear in,  
17:38
17 minutes, 38 seconds
and they had to be approved, right? So, he had  to he had to have it approved, as did, you know,  
17:44
17 minutes, 44 seconds
Jay Jay Stratton Sands and and you know, Kirk  McConnell I he was very careful on what he said   on camera. He said as much as he could  say without fear of retribution. Um  
17:55
17 minutes, 55 seconds
Kirk McConnell said in Armed Services Committee he  started in 2017 uh sticking his teeth into it. He  
18:01
18 minutes, 1 second
had high-level clearances. And um you know, and he  talks about in the film, that's why I can say it,  
18:07
18 minutes, 7 seconds
uh he has sat down along with members of of the  Senate with uh first-handers. I think it was like  
18:14
18 minutes, 14 seconds
I don't know. 10, maybe eight, 10 to 12,  something I don't know the exact number,  
18:19
18 minutes, 19 seconds
but but somewhere around there. First-handers.  And he says so in the film. That these people  
18:24
18 minutes, 24 seconds
have high-level clearances, credible, you know,  uh act either active both active and retired.  
18:32
18 minutes, 32 seconds
Uh it's kind of a big deal. I mean, he's  putting his neck out. huge [snorts] deal. Well,   Jason Sands, I know he's controversial a lot of  people. I I I knew that there were going to be  
18:42
18 minutes, 42 seconds
certain people within the community that are going  to criticize me for for including Jason Sands,   but I did a lot of stuff a lot of digging behind  the scenes. I did as best I could, you know,  
18:51
18 minutes, 51 seconds
to verify his credentials, to to to prove that he  is who he says he was, and he was where he says he  
18:57
18 minutes, 57 seconds
was, right? I even got his ex-wife, and I actually  I kept saying, "Look, I need photographs of you in  
19:04
19 minutes, 4 seconds
the military." And and I kept not getting them,  and I finally said, "What's going on here?" And   he goes, "Ah, they're my my ex kind of my ex,  and she's got them in they're they're in boxes  
19:12
19 minutes, 12 seconds
up in the attic, and she's going to have to  go dig it out. I said, "Well, tell her $200   per scanned image." And I had him 6 hours later.  So, [laughter] Money talks, baby. Money talks,  
19:22
19 minutes, 22 seconds
you know, and I had to have them. You You got to  have them. Yeah. I met with people on the inside,  
19:28
19 minutes, 28 seconds
current, that vouched for him and said, "Look,  you know, he's probably suffering from PTSD,  
19:33
19 minutes, 33 seconds
but he is who he says he is. He was where he says  he was." Uh we vetted him thoroughly, and uh he's  
19:39
19 minutes, 39 seconds
even mentioned names of classified programs  that that he knew. So, um don't throw I just,  
19:46
19 minutes, 46 seconds
you know, so I stuck by his side, and he's  willing to take a lie detector test publicly,   and he's willing to testify under oath,  provided he's given immunity to verify,  
19:56
19 minutes, 56 seconds
to give the the details necessary to  verify his claims. So, there we have it.  
20:01
20 minutes, 1 second
So, okay. One of the biggest, I think, issues  or things we run up against when it comes to  
20:08
20 minutes, 8 seconds
the program, per se, is uh you have people  testifying before Congress, Elizondo,  
20:15
20 minutes, 15 seconds
um the claims by a whistleblower to  Shellenberger, the individuals you've spoken to.  
20:20
20 minutes, 20 seconds
And it seems like, James, every time it  comes back to, "Well, who are these people?  
20:26
20 minutes, 26 seconds
Where's the location where the craft are being  hidden or stored or worked on? Um what are the  
20:33
20 minutes, 33 seconds
locations of these programs and whatnot?" Um it's  always uh I could talk about that in a SCIF or a  
20:40
20 minutes, 40 seconds
classified setting. So, that seems to be like the  big roadblock right now is like this idea of this  
20:48
20 minutes, 48 seconds
mythological SCIF that everyone talks about.  And people like George Knapp have claimed,  
20:54
20 minutes, 54 seconds
"I've been in a SCIF. Like, I've literally  been in a SCIF with these people. Why can't   members of Congress get in there and do it to  further their investigation into the claims  
21:03
21 minutes, 3 seconds
being brought to them?" So, like, what do you make  of this whole, like, I don't want to say it's like  
21:10
21 minutes, 10 seconds
a way out of it, like, saying, "Oh, I could  talk about that in a SCIF." And then they can   never actually get in the SCIF to talk. Do  these people I don't think I don't think the  
21:18
21 minutes, 18 seconds
SCIF's going to solve it because, look, let's  say you get Thomas Monheim, the current ICIG,  
21:23
21 minutes, 23 seconds
intelligence community inspector general, into a  SCIF, and he reveals the street addresses. Now,   now what? It's still classified. So, what if  members going to Congress maybe possibly leak  
21:33
21 minutes, 33 seconds
it out? Then you don't have providence. I think  what needs to happen is that the first handers  
21:38
21 minutes, 38 seconds
need to be provided whistleblower protections,  real protections, where they feel secure and safe,  
21:44
21 minutes, 44 seconds
and immunity to disclose in a public setting,  just like we did with David Grusch, but allowing  
21:50
21 minutes, 50 seconds
them to relinquish all the information, street  addresses, who who has it, which agencies, which  
21:57
21 minutes, 57 seconds
uh, you know, subcontractors, and that nature.  In my opinion, that's what needs to happen.   Okay, so executive branch, I would Cuz I've  asked that. And and I've also asked, like,  
22:07
22 minutes, 7 seconds
where are they hiding this so-called  unacknowledged special access program,   right? And the the the best I can get with well,  if it does exist, it's probably under the DOE,  
22:18
22 minutes, 18 seconds
Department of Energy, cuz that's the least amount  of oversight. Yeah. So, that's where it would be,   right? But look, it's frustrating. People  feel like things aren't happening fast enough,  
22:26
22 minutes, 26 seconds
but I have to remind people, just look at where  we've come since 2017, right? We got We've had  
22:33
22 minutes, 33 seconds
a couple people, Intel folks, testify under oath  publicly that there's a crash retrieval program.  
22:41
22 minutes, 41 seconds
Let's not forget that. I don't think you  can overstate the significance of that.   Testified under oath, okay, that it exists. So,  there are consequences for lying to Congress,  
22:52
22 minutes, 52 seconds
particularly under oath. I mean, potential  prison time. So, we should take that allegation   very seriously, and we should keep the pressure  on, keep supporting our elected officials,  
23:01
23 minutes, 1 second
both parties, and and while while they keep  digging. And you know, try to get you know,  
23:08
23 minutes, 8 seconds
love the Trump administration or don't like  the Trump administration, I think that they're   more likely to possibly wave the magic wand  and provide some level of immunity to these  
23:18
23 minutes, 18 seconds
first-hand witnesses, which what in my opinion  needs to happen. [snorts] So, this really lay,  
23:24
23 minutes, 24 seconds
like you said, in the executive branch and policy  making. You know, you you stress in the film this  
23:33
23 minutes, 33 seconds
uh what do you call it? The the disclosure act  that's been trying to get passed and whatnot.  
23:39
23 minutes, 39 seconds
Through the efforts of people like Schumer and  whatnot. Right, on the Senate passed the Senate  
23:45
23 minutes, 45 seconds
failed in the House. Right. Um so, basically what  you're saying is like it has to come to a law  
23:53
23 minutes, 53 seconds
that's going to protect these people in  order for them to come forward. Yeah, so I I   sorry, I got sidetracked earlier on. I was going  to mention there's an individual who appears in  
24:02
24 minutes, 2 seconds
the film under it's Navy X. And this individual  is putting together a statement. We were going  
24:08
24 minutes, 8 seconds
over it just 15-20 minutes ago anonymously on  it's a very compelling statement and it's going  
24:16
24 minutes, 16 seconds
to be released on my X account on the day of the  film release on the 16th of December. Basically  
24:22
24 minutes, 22 seconds
explaining you know, why this individual is doing  what he's doing, why he's fearful for his safety,  
24:31
24 minutes, 31 seconds
where some of this material is, what  he is what this individual has seen,   and basically why he's why he's coming forward  anonymously. It's very compelling. It's going to  
24:41
24 minutes, 41 seconds
it's it's several paragraphs and it's it  really explains a lot of things within  
24:48
24 minutes, 48 seconds
the the fear factor the is real. The consequences  for for violating their security oaths, I guess,  
24:57
24 minutes, 57 seconds
is real. They're and um um Yeah, so it explains a  lot of it and it's frustrating. It's frustrating  
25:03
25 minutes, 3 seconds
for for filmmakers, myself. It's frustrating  for the general public. When you hear these all   these people telling me like I'd go to jail if I  told you what I know. Excuse me. It's like, "Hey,  
25:13
25 minutes, 13 seconds
why can't we have a blanket protection  somehow and really because if what these   people are saying is true, this is the biggest  story of the millennium. I mean, ever, really,  
25:22
25 minutes, 22 seconds
right?" So, it merits further investigation and  it merits the efforts of our elected officials to  
25:28
25 minutes, 28 seconds
try to provide immunity for these whistleblowers.  Yeah. Yeah, we'll see what happens. It's it's an  
25:35
25 minutes, 35 seconds
interesting time, especially when you have like  these people testifying before the house and then,  
25:41
25 minutes, 41 seconds
you know, Arrow testifying before the Senate and  they're kind of going up against one another in  
25:46
25 minutes, 46 seconds
terms of who knows what, what can be proven,  what can't be proven. So, what do you think  
25:53
25 minutes, 53 seconds
of Arrow and what you all think he's doing? Very  interesting. I'm glad you brought that up because  
26:00
26 minutes
I think about how much background I give you on  this, but basically I had an opportunity right   after I had I attended the first congressional  hearings I got to attend after 30 years waiting  
26:08
26 minutes, 8 seconds
for that. And a lot of people were going to  be like, "Oh, it was a big nothingburger."   You know, it was pretty exciting nonetheless.  I was pretty happy to be there, pretty happy  
26:16
26 minutes, 16 seconds
to see people testify under oath, pretty happy to  see the Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet and, you know,   Lou testify under oath about the existence of  a crash retrieval program. Pretty big deal.  
26:28
26 minutes, 28 seconds
But the next day, Kirk McConnell had arranged  a meeting with me in a skiff with the new head  
26:33
26 minutes, 33 seconds
of Arrow. And there was another gentleman,  Air Force Office of Special Investigations,   Kevin Ryan I think his last name was. I'll  have to look into that, but in any case,  
26:42
26 minutes, 42 seconds
John Kirkpatrick is the new head of Arrow.  I got in there [clears throat] and I   was thinking to myself like, "This is  crazy. I'm I'm in a skiff with the head of
26:53
26 minutes, 53 seconds
Hello, this is Ryan Sprague, the host of Somewhere  in the Skies. If you're enjoying our podcast,  
26:59
26 minutes, 59 seconds
our live streams, and our videos, and you'd like  to support the show, there are several ways to  
27:04
27 minutes, 4 seconds
help while unlocking exclusive perks. Join our  Patreon community for early access to episodes,  
27:11
27 minutes, 11 seconds
priority guest questions, exclusive articles,  bonus content, and access to a growing community  
27:18
27 minutes, 18 seconds
of fellow UFO enthusiasts. You can also  subscribe to Somewhere in the Skies Premium  
27:23
27 minutes, 23 seconds
on Apple Podcasts for ad-free listening, early  access, and exclusive [music] premium content.  
27:30
27 minutes, 30 seconds
If you're watching on YouTube, consider becoming  a channel member to unlock bonus content,  
27:35
27 minutes, 35 seconds
members-only posts, badges, and so much more.  No matter how you choose to support Somewhere  
27:40
27 minutes, 40 seconds
in the Skies, your contribution directly  helps fund our research, our production,  
27:46
27 minutes, 46 seconds
travel, interviews, and the continued growth  of everything we do here. So, to learn more,  
27:52
27 minutes, 52 seconds
check the links in the show notes or the  video description. And real talk here, guys,  
27:57
27 minutes, 57 seconds
thank you for listening and supporting us for  almost 10 years. And thank you for supporting   independent content, and I hope you'll  continue to join me somewhere in the skies.
28:13
28 minutes, 13 seconds
And so, I said, "Hey, you guys guys got to throw  us a bone here. You know, we're not going away."  
28:22
28 minutes, 22 seconds
And and sure, the vast majority of these sightings  can be explained away in conventional terms,  
28:27
28 minutes, 27 seconds
but you know, there's a residual 10, 15, 20%  that clearly defies a a conventional explanation,  
28:33
28 minutes, 33 seconds
and we're probably dealing with non-human  intelligence. And nobody scoffed or denied  
28:38
28 minutes, 38 seconds
or anything like that. He looked at me and  he goes, "James, I can't part my own hair  
28:45
28 minutes, 45 seconds
without approval from the DOD. And you can  quote me on that. And I thought to myself,  
28:50
28 minutes, 50 seconds
I thought about that for a while. So basically  what he's saying is Congress puts him in charge   of digging through the various intelligence  agencies and finding out what they know,  
29:00
29 minutes
and yet the DOD, which is part of the executive  branch, tells him what he can and cannot say.  
29:06
29 minutes, 6 seconds
So that doesn't seem like a very Really? Why  Why is that? Why is that structured that way?  
29:13
29 minutes, 13 seconds
But that's what he said. It's interesting because  you had at the Senate hearing, you had Susan  
29:20
29 minutes, 20 seconds
Gough, the Pentagon spokesperson, next to the  head of AARO, like eyeing him the whole time, the  
29:27
29 minutes, 27 seconds
freaking lasers in the back of his head. And then  at the House hearing, you had members of Congress  
29:32
29 minutes, 32 seconds
like Jared Moskowitz saying, "We were told today  not to ask you specific questions." So it's like,  
29:38
29 minutes, 38 seconds
who is pulling the strings above everyone here?  And you know, I I got to say something really cool   that that I was just blown away by. And this  was told to me by the Air Force Office of  
29:48
29 minutes, 48 seconds
Special Investigations, Kevin. And he goes, uh  He goes, "You can't work for AARO. It's It's a  
29:57
29 minutes, 57 seconds
prerequisite to watch The Phenomenon [laughter]  before you come work for AARO." And then he goes,  
30:03
30 minutes, 3 seconds
"God, that case at the end in Africa." I said,  "You mean the Landing case?" "Wow." [laughter]
30:11
30 minutes, 11 seconds
It's like the training manual  for AARO now, man. Think about   that. This is amazing. This is amazing.  Yeah. It was pretty It was pretty cool. So So  
30:21
30 minutes, 21 seconds
just to clarify, were did you go into  the SCIF? I did. I went into a SCIF, yes.  
30:28
30 minutes, 28 seconds
Just like in the movies. Yeah. crazy. Yeah. And  I had to like do a 48-hour background check. Then  
30:35
30 minutes, 35 seconds
I had to go through all this like security, metal  detector, and then I went through this like glass   like this glass tube thing, almost like in a Star  Trek movie, where the door opens on one side and  
30:44
30 minutes, 44 seconds
you walk in and then it opens on the other side  you walk through and then I had to get rid of all  
30:49
30 minutes, 49 seconds
anything electronic leave it out on a on top of a  of a little locker Can you record anything maybe?  
30:56
30 minutes, 56 seconds
buttons and everything on it oh yeah I could no  cameras no cell phone nothing man boom I'm inside  
31:01
31 minutes, 1 second
and their whole operations for AARO inside a  skiff and I was so I walked down this hallway  
31:10
31 minutes, 10 seconds
and it's sorry my camera's moving I hate that  I need to turn that feature off but I'm walking   down this hallway I'm walking down this hallway  with the guy from Air Force Office of Special  
31:18
31 minutes, 18 seconds
Investigations AFOSI and and he stopped he  you know wait here and he's doing something  
31:24
31 minutes, 24 seconds
and to my left there's a door open and there's  a um uh a a table uh with like maybe five people  
31:34
31 minutes, 34 seconds
sitting at the table talking and I just couldn't  help myself I just kind of turned over and   I started tuning in to what they're saying they're  all sitting down at this this this table and uh  
31:45
31 minutes, 45 seconds
and then somebody gets up and they  walk over and close the door [laughter]
31:52
31 minutes, 52 seconds
Oh man. I couldn't help myself A courier? I was  sitting there waiting there I look over [laughter]  
31:59
31 minutes, 59 seconds
I'm just you know tuning in  to what's what's being said   and uh then yeah it was pretty funny and then I  went into another room with the two of them for  
32:07
32 minutes, 7 seconds
for like 15 20 minutes maybe 45 minutes with uh  the head of AARO hung out for 15 20 minutes and he  
32:13
32 minutes, 13 seconds
had to go and then I hung out with the other guy  at the Air Force Office of Special Investigations   Interesting. I was asking him about Men in  Black who are they what agency are they from  
32:24
32 minutes, 24 seconds
are you looking into it you need to look into  this case that case like here's where I think   you could find something it was pretty  cool Please tell me you asked about Dody.  
32:34
32 minutes, 34 seconds
I I did not Oh I [clears throat] did not sorry  It's all right it's all right next time next   time. Yeah. But I do have I do have their I have  one of their numbers that I text with them. Wow.  
32:45
32 minutes, 45 seconds
You know, but I told them I said you got to throw  us a bone. You can't we're not going anywhere.   This is not going to go away. It's not going  away. Yeah. Absolutely, man. Well, in C that's  
32:55
32 minutes, 55 seconds
the frustration right there. You were in a skiff.  Why can't these members of Congress get in there  
33:01
33 minutes, 1 second
to interview these people? It just this conundrum  just it it baffles me. I I don't get it.  
33:07
33 minutes, 7 seconds
Look, they didn't reveal anything classified and  the fact that I met in a skiff, I mean I don't   I don't know could they have shared classified?  I don't know if they could have or not. I mean I  
33:16
33 minutes, 16 seconds
did a lot of the talking and you know, but when  I started talking about NHI and I I clearly was  
33:22
33 minutes, 22 seconds
like you know this is where this is going, right?  You know that, right? You know, and that's what   he just said. Like I can't part my hair without  the DOD approving it. Yeah. That's what he said.  
33:33
33 minutes, 33 seconds
See, and that makes me think they wanted to they  wanted information from you, not the other way  
33:38
33 minutes, 38 seconds
around. They're gathering intel from the people  who are, you know, investigating these things,  
33:44
33 minutes, 44 seconds
making films about them. I told [laughter] them  stuff and there's one particular bit of evidence   that I've been digging up. I look, people are  going to get frustrated because they're, you know,  
33:53
33 minutes, 53 seconds
the Virginia case we talked about photographic  evidence. You know, I've been going after that   for a couple of years now. I don't give up.  Like I've been going after quietly and again  
34:03
34 minutes, 3 seconds
I have to say thank you to David Clark on the  Calvine UFO photograph. I mean it's been like   quietly in and out for 20 years. I've been kind of  making inquiries about that, you know, pestering  
34:15
34 minutes, 15 seconds
Nick Pope about it. Great interview he gave by the  way on that case, isn't it? It was interesting.  
34:21
34 minutes, 21 seconds
He sort of framed the whole experience in real  time. I waited 20 20 years for that moment,  
34:28
34 minutes, 28 seconds
you know, and going to the spot. So I  I'm also been trying to track down a   footage of a launch at Vandenberg Air Force Base.  I've I've been on it for about 10 years now,  
34:38
34 minutes, 38 seconds
maybe maybe 12 years. And I know  the individual that has it and so   I've been I've been working that angle for a while  and and talking with It was basically a launch. I  
34:49
34 minutes, 49 seconds
think it was in September of 1964 Vandenberg Air  Force Base. Quite similar to what Robert Jacobs   talks about with that object that circles the  tip of the Atlas rocket shoots beams of light.  
35:00
35 minutes
This this particular footage that I'm going  after has I think two or three objects  
35:05
35 minutes, 5 seconds
circling the tip of an Atlas rocket traveling  at roughly 8, 9,000 miles an hour taken in 1964,  
35:12
35 minutes, 12 seconds
but it doesn't shoot beams according to the  people that have seen it. It doesn't and the   individual who has it, it doesn't shoot beams of  light, but it does circle and it's two different  
35:20
35 minutes, 20 seconds
camera angles, one close and one further  away showing exactly the same thing. So,   they've totally eliminated any possibility of lens  flare or things of that nature. But, it's pretty  
35:28
35 minutes, 28 seconds
pretty impressive stuff and they kind of want  my help to go after it and I did say to them,   if I help you get it, it can't disappear. Like  I'm going to get a copy and you'll get a copy.  
35:38
35 minutes, 38 seconds
So, oh yeah, yeah, okay. And so So, we're working  together in tandem on it. Interesting. Well, okay.  
35:45
35 minutes, 45 seconds
Yeah, we'll see. But, if I take it and they and  they lie about it, I'm going to call them out.   Yeah? And I told them that. Like you're not going  to make this go down a black hole cuz I can give  
35:54
35 minutes, 54 seconds
you a thousand cases right here, right now about  how this stuff has an uncanny ability to vanish.  
35:59
35 minutes, 59 seconds
Mhm. Well, on that, I do want to I know  we got to wrap things up shortly. But,  
36:05
36 minutes, 5 seconds
um 10 minutes and I've got to walk my dog  and then I've got to go to my dad bod class  
36:11
36 minutes, 11 seconds
with a middle-aged dudes and older get together  and work out and make fun of each other and pump   iron and it's really fun. It's good for my mental  state of health. So, Yeah. I don't know if that  
36:21
36 minutes, 21 seconds
my priority. You're going to need it for the  next few weeks, my friend. That's for sure. Um  
36:26
36 minutes, 26 seconds
black hole video, I have to ask you this. Um when  we are in the car you played a voicemail for me. I  
36:34
36 minutes, 34 seconds
won't name the individual, but people  will know who it is about a certain video.  
36:40
36 minutes, 40 seconds
Will we ever see that video from I'm okay.  Well, everyone knows at this point. Is Logan  
36:46
36 minutes, 46 seconds
Paul ever going to drop this best video ever on  us? What's going on with it? I had another guy  
36:55
36 minutes, 55 seconds
come to my house he probably wouldn't want  me to mention his name, and I can't remember   his name right off the bat. We're right here.  Came to this table right here about a year ago.  
37:03
37 minutes, 3 seconds
Something like that. Maybe  less. And he has the video. And   so he showed it to me. I said, "Well, can I take  a video of you?" Uh-uh. And it was very degraded.  
37:15
37 minutes, 15 seconds
Uh and it was edited. It seemed like somebody had  edited. It wasn't It was It was kind of chopped  
37:21
37 minutes, 21 seconds
up. And degraded. I mean, it definitely showed  the disc you know, doing the wobble that I'd   remember crystal clear. And the the paranoia from  them inside the car and the light over the top of  
37:31
37 minutes, 31 seconds
the car, all that. But it was kind of edited  and chopped up, and it was really degraded.   And I was like, "God, this is" And he said that  he was going to he had contacted Chuck Clark.  
37:40
37 minutes, 40 seconds
And he was going to um have it enhanced with  the with the latest software to get rid of all  
37:46
37 minutes, 46 seconds
the dropout. Uh for preservation purposes. And I  said, "Okay, well, do you think it'll get released   at that point?" He goes, "Well, first my first  step is to get it enhanced, and then we'll see  
37:55
37 minutes, 55 seconds
what happens." So, I haven't forgot about it. I'm  still going to try. I I won't ever give up on it.   Uh it's at one point or another I'm sure Chuck  Clark Oh, and one more thing I'll say about it  
38:06
38 minutes, 6 seconds
is that I went uh I was on a tour at a conference  actually with um uh um Fade to Black. Uh  
38:15
38 minutes, 15 seconds
Jimmy Church. Yeah, Jimmy Church. And we were  on a conference we took buses from Las Vegas  
38:20
38 minutes, 20 seconds
out to Area 51 as part of the tour and um we got  to Little A'Le'Inn and we hung out there for 3  
38:27
38 minutes, 27 seconds
hours and we had food and drinks and whatever and  um I met the again and I've known her for decades  
38:33
38 minutes, 33 seconds
the daughter of the woman who owned it I think  it was Pat Joe and Pat used to own it Pat's still  
38:38
38 minutes, 38 seconds
around Joe passed and Pat's daughter I talked to  her about that footage because Chuck Clark lived  
38:45
38 minutes, 45 seconds
like a couple hundred yards away from the Little  A'Le'Inn in in a double wide for for probably 20   years and of course he had that footage and  everybody knew about it everyone's seen it  
38:55
38 minutes, 55 seconds
and so I said to her like what why is there so  much secrecy around who shot it like what what's  
38:59
38 minutes, 59 seconds
the big deal why don't they come forward and um we  talked and and she was very kind of she remembered  
39:07
39 minutes, 7 seconds
me and knew who I was but she was kind of staying  off and then she looked at me and she goes   do you really think we're that stupid that  we're not going to make a digital copy of it  
39:16
39 minutes, 16 seconds
she goes there's reasons why that individual  didn't come forward no she I there there was   reasons why and she wouldn't tell me and I don't  know I don't know I don't I don't know but I  
39:26
39 minutes, 26 seconds
I won't I won't I haven't given up on I haven't  given up on any going after any footage sometimes   it's something it takes a while I don't know Yeah  welcome to ufology as a welcome to ufology yeah  
39:36
39 minutes, 36 seconds
I mean look how long it took for the Calvin UFO  photograph to surface Oh my gosh man 34 years 33  
39:41
39 minutes, 41 seconds
years and completely by happenstance like it was  in his desk the whole time God it's it's crazy  
39:47
39 minutes, 47 seconds
how these things work oh well let's talk briefly  you had um Gary McKinnon in the movie I know you   were I think you were with him the day before  you met up with me right Yeah probably probably  
39:57
39 minutes, 57 seconds
wasn't that great That was so cool to hear from  him again so many years later and and and the top  
40:04
40 minutes, 4 seconds
he talked about he was going to take his own  life before he would go rot in a foreign prison  
40:09
40 minutes, 9 seconds
Yeah it's intense Yeah so what do you make of  his claims in the broader picture of the program  
40:16
40 minutes, 16 seconds
Well it certainly it certainly aligns with  the research that we've done and the intel   officers telling us about so-called immaculate  constellation, right? There's some sort of  
40:25
40 minutes, 25 seconds
program that has all this high-resolution 4K data.  Right? Satellite collection data, all the sensory  
40:33
40 minutes, 33 seconds
data. Uh it's got to be somewhere. We we we've  talked to a new numerous people that have seen it,  
40:38
40 minutes, 38 seconds
you know? Uh most of whom are willing to take a  lie detector test that it does exist. So, uh why  
40:44
40 minutes, 44 seconds
not? Gary McKinnon his claims, he's never changed  his claims. He saw He saw one image that was very  
40:49
40 minutes, 49 seconds
impressive of an object that didn't that looked  like it was not of this Earth. And then also the  
40:56
40 minutes, 56 seconds
the officers, the non-terrestrial officers, what  the hell is that? That's weird, yeah. those guys?  
41:02
41 minutes, 2 seconds
Are those like astronauts? Right. Because  non-terrestrial officers, or are they   something else? Yeah. You know, I remember  thinking You know, look, one of the things
41:15
41 minutes, 15 seconds
the place where I'm at now after 30 years is I  I finally gotten to a place where I go, James,  
41:23
41 minutes, 23 seconds
I know this sounds crazy. You hear about  different aspects of the phenomenon that you  
41:29
41 minutes, 29 seconds
just had this knee-jerk reaction and go, that's  impossible. There's no way in hell that happened.  
41:35
41 minutes, 35 seconds
I've gone beyond that. Now I have to say,  James, take a moment, suspend judgment, and  
41:40
41 minutes, 40 seconds
at least consider this maybe a possibility. Maybe  this did happen. Mhm. And dig a little further.   Don't just reject it. So, that's where I'm at  right now. I started thinking about Jason Sands'  
41:50
41 minutes, 50 seconds
encounter in the desert. Yeah. That's pretty What  about that? Again, if true, like that's a pretty  
41:58
41 minutes, 58 seconds
nutso. He's willing to He's willing to take a  public lie detector test. He has the names of  
42:04
42 minutes, 4 seconds
the other officers that were on duty that day. We  have a date, we have a location, we have names.  
42:10
42 minutes, 10 seconds
Let's dig Let's dig into it. Yep. Prove or  disprove that. Yep. Let's Let the Let Let Let  
42:16
42 minutes, 16 seconds
Let the world know about it and and and let's  dig deeper on that one because if that really  
42:20
42 minutes, 20 seconds
happened, wow. Mhm. It's Yeah, it's it's one for  the ages for sure. Yeah, I was like Incredible.  
42:30
42 minutes, 30 seconds
It's It was incredible. Um I'm going to  look at James. I've got just a couple uh   questions from Twitter here really  quick. Um I'll just pick one.  
42:40
42 minutes, 40 seconds
I'll pick the greatest hit here. Um My favorite  color is dark blue. Next question. [laughter]
42:49
42 minutes, 49 seconds
Hinus X says, "What's up, James Fox?" Um let me  see here. Oh, here's a good one. Brian Jacoby  
42:55
42 minutes, 55 seconds
asked, "What is the biggest frustration about  go going through the conventional route, aka  
43:01
43 minutes, 1 second
Congress politicians? What kind of What What can  us normal people do to push the topic forward?" Uh  
43:09
43 minutes, 9 seconds
What us normal people can do, myself included  on that, is to support our elected officials,  
43:15
43 minutes, 15 seconds
bipartisan effort to push for more transparency.  They need to hear from us that we want answers  
43:21
43 minutes, 21 seconds
and we have They have our support. That's I can't  overstate how significant that is. Okay. Cool.  
43:28
43 minutes, 28 seconds
Um let me see here. We talked about Oh, uh you  posted on X today. You were looking for the  
43:35
43 minutes, 35 seconds
J. Edgar Hoover document. What's going  on with that? Well, I had the document   A friend of mine was asking me about it and I  was like, "Oh, yeah, I know where that is." And  
43:45
43 minutes, 45 seconds
did a did a little quick search. It's like,  "Well, why can't I find this?" Yeah. And then   I remember thinking, "You know what? That's a  pretty significant document. We're talking about  
43:55
43 minutes, 55 seconds
crash retrieval stuff. The former head of the FBI  in his own handwriting, right? Cuz I featured this  
44:02
44 minutes, 2 seconds
document in Out of the Blue decades ago. Says,  "Okay, perfect. Thank you. This is excellent." So,  
44:09
44 minutes, 9 seconds
look, if we could just figure out what  that It's Some people say LA or is it SW?  
44:16
44 minutes, 16 seconds
What is that? Because if that's SW, it could be  the Southwest, which would mean could be Roswell.  
44:22
44 minutes, 22 seconds
Because he talks about it and look at the date.  It's July 15th. It's just a week or so after  
44:28
44 minutes, 28 seconds
the army would have grabbed it, right? Right.  Right. Because that's when Roswell happened. So,  
44:33
44 minutes, 33 seconds
this, in my opinion, because it's not typed, it's  in his own handwriting, it's an official document  
44:40
44 minutes, 40 seconds
from J. Edgar Hoover, and I know it's old,  obviously, and I know it's been reported on,   obviously, but let's do some analysis and  find out what that says. Because if it's  
44:51
44 minutes, 51 seconds
if it's LA, then I'm just stumped. But if it's SW,  it could be Southwest, which would mean Roswell.  
44:57
44 minutes, 57 seconds
Which is pretty significant. Like, let's not  just throw this out just because it's old and   it has been reported on the past. As far as I'm  concerned, it's never really We haven't gotten  
45:05
45 minutes, 5 seconds
to the bottom of it. Yeah. It's interesting.  Yeah, yeah, I was wouldn't let us have it for
45:13
45 minutes, 13 seconds
We must insist upon full access to discs  recovered. This is a week or so after Roswell,  
45:20
45 minutes, 20 seconds
1947. Yeah. Like, come on, man. If this isn't a  smoking gun document, if we can just figure out  
45:26
45 minutes, 26 seconds
Somebody needs to do some analysis work on that  and find out what because he says, "For instance,   in the something case, the army grabbed it,  wouldn't let us have for cursory examination,  
45:37
45 minutes, 37 seconds
1 week or so after Roswell, 10 days after Roswell,  whatever that is." Like, wow, right? Yeah.  
45:43
45 minutes, 43 seconds
It's crazy. Um and it could have been no more  appropriate than for your new film coming out. So,  
45:50
45 minutes, 50 seconds
relevant right now. I mean, it's a relevant  document. I know it's old and I know it's been   reported on, but nobody's really gotten to the  bottom of it. What what case is he talking about?  
45:58
45 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah. says Southwest, then that's bingo, right?  Yep. Exactly. So, anyway, yeah. That's right.  
46:05
46 minutes, 5 seconds
I I'd like to see I just bring it to people's  attention. I think it's relevant. Very relevant.   It would be crash retrieval, confirmation  in the former head of FBI's own handwriting,  
46:15
46 minutes, 15 seconds
right? It's better than typing. It's It's  in his handwriting. It could be analyzed.   We should figure out what that is. I want to know  your thoughts. What's going on in New Jersey, man?  
46:26
46 minutes, 26 seconds
Like between the UK and New Jersey, like it's  just War of the Worlds. What's what's happening? I  
46:32
46 minutes, 32 seconds
I wish I had definitive answers and I don't. I  have a friend of mine who lives in New Jersey.   He called me yesterday, Alessio, and he goes  he actually was with me in uh Virginia, Brazil  
46:42
46 minutes, 42 seconds
couple of years ago filming for Moment of Contact.  And he calls me up and I totally trust this guy.   And he goes, "Mate, I live here. They're flying  over my house." I said, "Well, tell me, what  
46:52
46 minutes, 52 seconds
are you seeing?" He goes, "They're the size of an  SUV and they make noise, but they're hovering and   they're this and they're that." I go, "They're  making noise?" "Yeah, they're making noise,  
47:01
47 minutes, 1 second
but they their loiter time is hours as opposed  to minutes." Now, I fly pretty advanced drones,  
47:07
47 minutes, 7 seconds
I mean, relatively within the, you know, I mean, I  fly I, you know, for my movies, right? But I'm I'm   lucky to get 20 minutes flight time, maybe 25 if  I'm really lucky under the right conditions. These  
47:17
47 minutes, 17 seconds
things are up for hours. And in some instances,  I've heard relatively credible reports of F-16s  
47:24
47 minutes, 24 seconds
over more sensitive airspace like like military  bases, uh you know, going after them and them  
47:29
47 minutes, 29 seconds
just outmaneuvering an F-16. Is that really true?  If that's true, you're talking about potentially  
47:36
47 minutes, 36 seconds
conventional propulsion, but highly advanced.  So, I don't know. I don't know what to think.  
47:41
47 minutes, 41 seconds
It's really crazy. And the silence from from from  the executive branch is deafening, really. I mean,  
47:47
47 minutes, 47 seconds
I They're saying, "Don't worry, you have nothing  to fear." Really? But you don't know what they   are? That doesn't make sense either. The Pentagon  literally Nothing to see here, folks. Like uh  
47:59
47 minutes, 59 seconds
I don't know they that it's not US tech and that  it's uh what did they say? Not US tech and it's  
48:06
48 minutes, 6 seconds
not Iran because one of the New Jersey reps said  that he heard that it was Iranian technology and  
48:13
48 minutes, 13 seconds
they were able to uh deny that, but then they also  said this is not US tech either. They're giving  
48:19
48 minutes, 19 seconds
horrible explanations. They're giving horrible  explanations. They're making matters worse. Yes.  
48:25
48 minutes, 25 seconds
Just say that. Because why don't you just follow  one of them back? Wherever it goes, follow it.  
48:31
48 minutes, 31 seconds
Yeah. Like It makes me think they know. It really  makes me think they know. And they should say,  
48:37
48 minutes, 37 seconds
"We know what they are. Don't worry about it. It's  okay." But they don't say that either. Yeah. So,  
48:42
48 minutes, 42 seconds
I'm highly dubious. I don't you know, come on.  I know, man. Anyway. Yeah, sorry. Go ahead. No,  
48:48
48 minutes, 48 seconds
I don't want to end with a drone question.  So, so I guess my big question for you is um  
48:56
48 minutes, 56 seconds
What do what happens next? The film is coming out  December 16th. What is the biggest thing people  
49:04
49 minutes, 4 seconds
should pay attention to with the film and where is  this all heading as we go into 2025 with the UFO  
49:12
49 minutes, 12 seconds
issue? Well, I I think it's really important to  keep the pressure on. I think we really are living  
49:17
49 minutes, 17 seconds
in unprecedented times right now. It's happening.  There's a culmination. Right? And it's got  
49:24
49 minutes, 24 seconds
the attention of Congress, uh starting to get  the attention of the American public, in fact   globally. Remember, the implications are for  all of humanity, not just the United States,  
49:35
49 minutes, 35 seconds
right? This is This is far-reaching global  implications and and it potentially could be   the biggest story in modern history. And  I think we need to keep the pressure on,  
49:46
49 minutes, 46 seconds
keep supporting the congressional effort to  hold the intel communities' feet to the fire.  
49:52
49 minutes, 52 seconds
Um keep demanding answers and uh um and and and  don't let up. Now's not the time to let up. I   do I want to say that this is the most  independent production I've ever done.  
50:03
50 minutes, 3 seconds
Start to finish. We have no distributor.  We're doing this entirely on our own.   I had to borrow a quarter of a million dollars  just to pay to get it released. It's a long story,  
50:11
50 minutes, 11 seconds
but there's a lot of un unforeseen There's  just a lot of expenditures, PR companies,  
50:17
50 minutes, 17 seconds
you know, at running ad space. I'm doing basically  exactly what my distributor used to do. Like when   I put out the phenomenon, everything's the same.  The people that acquire the film aren't going  
50:26
50 minutes, 26 seconds
to see anything different. It's just that we're  all paying out of pocket. We have no distributor   company. We have an aggregator who posts it up on  the film hub, but that's it. We do everything. So,  
50:35
50 minutes, 35 seconds
uh it's the first time in the history of my all my  films that has been that independent. The film's   coming out on Amazon, iTunes, Apple, Vimeo. It's  going to be expensive for the first 2 weeks. It's  
50:46
50 minutes, 46 seconds
purchase only. Mhm. I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's  going to be $20. And if you can afford the $20,  
50:52
50 minutes, 52 seconds
I totally get it. Sit tight and we will make it  available for rent at the end of this month. We're   trying to recoup we're about a million dollars  in debt right now. Uh people wanted me to set  
51:01
51 minutes, 1 second
up a GoFundMe. I refuse to do that unless I'm in  a foreign prison somewhere. And I can't I do not   have the ability to get myself out. Then you can  set up a GoFundMe. I'm not accepting free money,  
51:11
51 minutes, 11 seconds
but if you guys want to fund me and you want to  help, buy it in the next 2 weeks. And if not, wait   until it's available to rent. And I do appreciate  all of your support. It really I really mean that.  
51:22
51 minutes, 22 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. And if you want to see me, my  sweaty ass hiking up a hill with James Fox,  
51:27
51 minutes, 27 seconds
who's in way better shape than I'll ever be.  Um yeah, you can see me for like half a second  
51:33
51 minutes, 33 seconds
there. But hey, I'm not arguing. witness number  three, you know. Yes. Yes. That was me and you.   Yes. You're in there a number of times.  That was me and one of your camera guys. So,  
51:43
51 minutes, 43 seconds
I I can say that I was in a reenactor of one of  the Kelvin UFO witnesses. You know what? You're  
51:49
51 minutes, 49 seconds
going to get an Academy Award for that. That was  Your acting was phenomenal. When you stood there  
51:55
51 minutes, 55 seconds
under the tree and knelt down, that's an Academy  Award right there. I'd like to thank my mom,   all of my supporters throughout for this  award. No, I'm kidding. Dude, it was such a  
52:05
52 minutes, 5 seconds
pleasure doing that with you. Like it's a memory  I will hold dear forever. Keep me posted on your  
52:11
52 minutes, 11 seconds
documentary on the Shag Harbor. Let me know how  I can help out. Absolutely, I will. And um thank   you. I know you got to get going, James, but I  can't wait for it to come out. Like you said,  
52:21
52 minutes, 21 seconds
we'll have links to everything in the show notes  for where you you guys can find the film. And   good luck with the release, my friend. Thanks  so much. Thanks for joining us. Bye, everybody.