0:02 2 seconds Oh, the time is now. Jeff Nusatelli, man who needs no uh introduction these days, a friend to the show and just a friend 0:09 9 seconds in general. Thank you so much, Jeff, for coming back on here to UAP. I'm It's It's a real pleasure to have you back on here. 0:15 15 seconds That's great to be here, Stephen. Yeah, I'm glad we can finally connect again. 0:19 19 seconds Yeah, I know. It's It's hard, you know, it's got it's gotten a little bit harder over over the past year um since a lot's been happening. I'd say over the past 0:28 28 seconds yeah probably over the past 12 months um your world has gotten very very busy and I'm very happy to see that especially 0:35 35 seconds ever since the congressional hearing back at September uh 6 months ago now as we speak. So I would I do want to ask 0:42 42 seconds you about that but we'll get to that a little bit later. U there's a lot to discuss here today so that's why I'm really happy to have you back on. I want 0:50 50 seconds to start with actually something happening right now um with somebody that you know that we that we we both 0:58 58 seconds have come in contact with. I think you know them a little a little bit better than I do, but with Jeremy Corbel and George Knap. They have their show Weaponized. They obviously do a great job on that with YouTube and everything. 1:08 1 minute, 8 seconds And they just recently had on Matthew Brown, who of course uh if you're into the subject, you know Matthew Brown is a whistleblower. He's uh worked a lot behind the scenes with with Congress. 1:19 1 minute, 19 seconds I'm sure you can speak on that a little bit more than I can as far as what he's been able to accomplish behind the scenes on this subject, but he's got a new interview out with them and a couple 1:28 1 minute, 28 seconds of things that um caught your attention with that that you seem to be directly involved with apparently. So, let's 1:36 1 minute, 36 seconds start there. Jeff, what the heck is going on uh with some of the things that were said in that new interview and how you're involved? 1:43 1 minute, 43 seconds Yeah. So, in general, so after the September 9th hearing, um, we really made an impact behind the 1:52 1 minute, 52 seconds scenes with that testimony and it kind of ignited a a fire in the intelligence community. 2:01 2 minutes, 1 second And basically what happened was um Tulsi Gabbard put together a working group 2:08 2 minutes, 8 seconds called a dig to investigate claims of whistleblower retaliation and provide some protection. 2:19 2 minutes, 19 seconds So they put that program together over um a period of a few months and then 2:26 2 minutes, 26 seconds whistleblowers were invited to come to the intelligence community and be briefed about this program, this protective program. 2:36 2 minutes, 36 seconds And basically what happened was Matthew Brown uh in working in good faith went 2:43 2 minutes, 43 seconds to ODNI and met with these people, these intelligence agents. 2:49 2 minutes, 49 seconds And he came out of that experience with the understanding that there are probably people working for Tulsi 2:58 2 minutes, 58 seconds Gabbard that are bad actors that are doing the opposite. They're not trying to protect whistleblowers. They're trying to hurt whistleblowers. 3:07 3 minutes, 7 seconds So that is uh the crux and Matthew and and his team have uncovered 3:16 3 minutes, 16 seconds sufficient evidence uh that this is going on. They've identified actual individuals within DoD 3:24 3 minutes, 24 seconds that are acting against whistleblowers like Matthew Brown, Dylan Borland, Lou Alzando, David Grush, and me. 3:33 3 minutes, 33 seconds Uh I'm not actually a whistleblower, but I I'm I've been targeted by these attacks and that information has been provided to the federal government. 3:44 3 minutes, 44 seconds Um and the other part of it is after the hearing, uh we all decided that we needed to take some ownership and 3:52 3 minutes, 52 seconds responsibility to protect ourselves, uh UAP witnesses and whistleblowers, right? Because over 4:00 4 minutes the years, we've been promised multiple times for support, financial support, legal support. 4:07 4 minutes, 7 seconds Uh little to none of that support has ever manifested. 4:11 4 minutes, 11 seconds M so we realized we have to take care of ourselves. So we put together a plan and we've been working over the last you 4:19 4 minutes, 19 seconds know five or six months uh to put together a nonprofit. So Dylan Borland and Matthew Brown have put together a 4:27 4 minutes, 27 seconds nonprofit and more information will be coming out about that. But the idea is the nonprofit is set up to provide those 4:36 4 minutes, 36 seconds services to witnesses and whistleblowers. So, it's going to be us taking care of ourselves from now on. 4:44 4 minutes, 44 seconds Wow. 4:44 4 minutes, 44 seconds So, that's basically what came out on Weaponized. I I u encourage everyone to go watch that interview with Matthew Brown. Yeah. 4:52 4 minutes, 52 seconds I think some people will be shocked at the information that uh is coming out and will be coming out in the future. 4:59 4 minutes, 59 seconds Wow. So, that that's pretty big. I mean, a couple things um right off the bat that's, you know, strike me from that. 5:04 5 minutes, 4 seconds Number one, just to kind of start in order of what you mentioned, um the fact that Tulsi Gabbard was taking this 5:12 5 minutes, 12 seconds seriously, you know, as the director of national intelligence, her name has been brought up a lot as and she's brought it up herself. I mean, in in confirmation 5:19 5 minutes, 19 seconds hearings and in other interviews or statements that this is something that she takes seriously. And I think a lot of people wanted to see that um that 5:27 5 minutes, 27 seconds seriousness, those statements kind of come to fruition, to have it something be tangible, right, where there's results to her saying that she takes it 5:35 5 minutes, 35 seconds seriously. So to hear you say that, that there was this behind-the-scenes effort in coordination with her departments that she was helping to spearhead to 5:44 5 minutes, 44 seconds have protection for whistleblowers to come forward and have that confidence that they can talk about it. But now we're talking about So that's that's the encouraging part. 5:54 5 minutes, 54 seconds The discouraging part would be that there's these um I guess allegations I suppose is the right word to use right 6:02 6 minutes, 2 seconds now that uh Matthew Brown and your group are are are coming out with saying that there's a little bit of kind of sub like 6:11 6 minutes, 11 seconds sabotage going on within the department of national intelligence saying that you have people working against Tulsi Gabbard as the head of the whole thing. 6:20 6 minutes, 20 seconds So, I mean that's that's pretty concerning, Jeff. I mean, it's just something that is being as as far as you know, worked on behind the scenes that 6:28 6 minutes, 28 seconds they're trying to uncover these alleged moles within the program that are trying to target you guys. 6:35 6 minutes, 35 seconds Yes. So the information on the moles has been provided to the appropriate agencies 6:41 6 minutes, 41 seconds and we also have a framework to to try to uh deal with this in the in the judiciary. 6:51 6 minutes, 51 seconds So we're uh we have a plan to try to take this to court. Wow. 6:57 6 minutes, 57 seconds So you know we've already we've dealt with every branch of the government up to this point. Right. We we're we've been hoping the executive branch will 7:05 7 minutes, 5 seconds provide us with relief and support that has not manifested. 7:10 7 minutes, 10 seconds Um you know and Congress has done what they can and they're still working on it. But now it's time to get the 7:17 7 minutes, 17 seconds judicial branch involved, right? So that that's the next phase. 7:23 7 minutes, 23 seconds And so I I mean it's it's I don't mean this in a way of like oh you know how much evidence do you guys have? Do you really have something on them? when I so 7:31 7 minutes, 31 seconds when I ask like you you actually have that much to feel confident enough to bring this to a to a judge and possibly 7:40 7 minutes, 40 seconds you know name names in in a legal setting to say these people are actively working against 7:47 7 minutes, 47 seconds the you know the US government to try to go after witnesses and whistleblowers who are trying to push this you know uh 7:55 7 minutes, 55 seconds disclosure era forward like you guys have that much information to bring this to a courtroom setting Yes, we do. Wow. 8:02 8 minutes, 2 seconds Yeah, we feel like we have a very strong case. 8:06 8 minutes, 6 seconds Wow. Okay. Um, no, that's that's really big. Again, discouraging to a point where, you know, 8:13 8 minutes, 13 seconds it's kind of the old there's a that's a double-edged sword. There's good and a bad. At least that's my read on this initially because this is the first time I'm hearing this. My read is the bad 8:22 8 minutes, 22 seconds part would be that we're still getting that push back that we're still after all these years, we're still getting 8:29 8 minutes, 29 seconds that, you know, sabotage within the government of people working against disclosure. The same stuff that we've been hearing about since the 1940s and 8:38 8 minutes, 38 seconds 50s essentially would still be happening now from from the allegations you guys are are putting forth on that. The good 8:46 8 minutes, 46 seconds side is is that you do have the allegations set up. You have the names that you guys feel like you've been able 8:53 8 minutes, 53 seconds to track down that are doing these things that are trying to come out against you. So hopefully there can be some type of retribution here, which I assume is what you guys are are going 9:02 9 minutes, 2 seconds for in order to not only protect yourselves, but in order to help to continue to push the the disclosure mission forward. Am I am I wrong in 9:10 9 minutes, 10 seconds saying that or No, 100% correct. And that that's what we've been saying. Uh [clears throat] in order to get the whistleblowers on the 9:19 9 minutes, 19 seconds stand or behind closed doors to give Congress or the American people the information that we want, there's a lot 9:26 9 minutes, 26 seconds of work that needs to be done before that can happen. And this is all part of that. You know, we have to prepare the battlefield. And it's it's going to be a long fight. 9:37 9 minutes, 37 seconds Wow. Yeah. And it's, you know, I think back to when we first started talking, what was I don't know, maybe two years ago. I two years, 9:44 9 minutes, 44 seconds I guess. So, right. And to think about where we started there and where we are now. I mean, I give you guys all the credit in the world for continuing uh 9:52 9 minutes, 52 seconds this fight, especially when you have these, you know, shadowy figures in the background. Um, speaking of that though, I mean, what type of targeting are we 10:01 10 minutes, 1 second talking about, if you don't mind me asking? Are we talking about character assassination type stuff or are we talking about actual like physical 10:09 10 minutes, 9 seconds threats where you feel like dang if we push this anymore like me myself or my family like might be in real physical danger? 10:17 10 minutes, 17 seconds The whole gambit physical danger uh cyber attacks being um we've had 10:25 10 minutes, 25 seconds breakins. We've had people approached in public and threatened. 10:29 10 minutes, 29 seconds So uh leading up to the hearing was very intense. We were under intense surveillance. 10:36 10 minutes, 36 seconds We were receiving threats. I mean, it it got pretty ugly. 10:41 10 minutes, 41 seconds It got pretty scary, you know, because a lot of us have, you know, families and I have children, you know, and the message was like 10:49 10 minutes, 49 seconds pretty direct. You better shut up and not testify really. So, I mean, was that something that people were actually saying to you, you or Dylan Borland or anybody else, or 10:57 10 minutes, 57 seconds was that just kind of like a um you you you got the message through some type of, you know, indirect uh action? 11:06 11 minutes, 6 seconds [snorts] 11:07 11 minutes, 7 seconds Indirect and direct. Wow. Yeah. 11:11 11 minutes, 11 seconds Faceless. I mean, were people coming up to you like you saw people coming up to you like kind of giving you the hint you better approach in public? 11:20 11 minutes, 20 seconds Really? 11:21 11 minutes, 21 seconds Yeah. Well, and does the same go and and you know if they want to talk about I'm sure they will, but and you so you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but 11:28 11 minutes, 28 seconds would the same go for the other witnesses like like Dylan Borland who was on the stand with you that day? 11:33 11 minutes, 33 seconds I I won't say specifically who, but uh because we're dealing a lot of the people that were working with and and helping are unknown. 11:42 11 minutes, 42 seconds Okay. Um but yeah, it it's a it's a mixed bag. We've all been um under surveillance. 11:49 11 minutes, 49 seconds We've all received messages of various sorts. 11:53 11 minutes, 53 seconds So, yeah, there's there's definitely an intimidation campaign, but that is that's scary and disturbing. 12:01 12 minutes, 1 second I mean, if I'm being totally upfront with you here, Jeff, I mean, I hadn't heard that before. I didn't know that was something you and the other guys have been going through. I mean, how how 12:09 12 minutes, 9 seconds are you able to respond to that, you know, kind of going forward? Like we said, 6 months since the hearing, and it sounds like even before the hearing that you've been going through this. I mean, 12:17 12 minutes, 17 seconds how have you guys been able to kind of push through and put those threats aside? 12:22 12 minutes, 22 seconds Uh, yeah, it was difficult. Uh, after the hearing, as far as me personally, things petered out like uh and that's 12:31 12 minutes, 31 seconds what they were trying to do. They're trying to to to frighten you away from testifying. 12:37 12 minutes, 37 seconds Uh, and then after we testified, uh, things calm down for me. But, um, yeah, it was very difficult to deal with. um 12:47 12 minutes, 47 seconds leading up to the hearing, you know, there there's really not a lot of places to go. 12:54 12 minutes, 54 seconds So, you know, we did what we could, but we have a pretty good network um where we could support and protect one another 13:02 13 minutes, 2 seconds and we that's just how we got through it. You know, we we stick together, we keep our mouths shut and just keep doing the work and and not allowing ourselves 13:11 13 minutes, 11 seconds to be intimidated. So, wow. How how nerve-wracking was it for you guys that day? Because I actually remember running into you guys. I was 13:19 13 minutes, 19 seconds going one way towards the the media session and you were going the other way towards the witness session. And so, I mean, you know, you you looked pretty 13:28 13 minutes, 28 seconds calm, cool, collected, but now knowing kind of what was going on behind the scenes, how nerve-wracking was that for you guys as you took the stand and took the oath and started your testimony? 13:38 13 minutes, 38 seconds It it was intense and uh very [clears throat] nerve-wracking. Everyone was very um 13:46 13 minutes, 46 seconds nervous lead leading up to it. Uh but that was the good thing. We got to spend time together the day before and you 13:54 13 minutes, 54 seconds know form a team and form a friendship and uh it made it a lot easier you know to do it. But I'll tell you, walking 14:02 14 minutes, 2 seconds into I have a video that I I captured right before we walked into the building and I mean it was dead silent 14:12 14 minutes, 12 seconds and everybody was just focused and um yeah we it was very 14:19 14 minutes, 19 seconds it was a difficult thing to do but we we were able to do it all together. But yeah, if you watch the hearing, I mean some we were all nervous and even 14:27 14 minutes, 27 seconds George, you know, George Knap was, you know, he he he he was like he was having an outof body experience. He was so, you 14:36 14 minutes, 36 seconds know, nervous. There was a lot of pressure. Yeah. 14:39 14 minutes, 39 seconds You know, on us. And we knew we had to go out there and perform. Yeah. 14:43 14 minutes, 43 seconds We couldn't look nervous and we couldn't, you know, we had to be on point and prepared. So, yeah, we we were able to pull it off, man. But it was 14:51 14 minutes, 51 seconds tense. And there were there were moments there was a moment where uh Alex Wiggins 14:58 14 minutes, 58 seconds and I uh we were after the hearing um we we were pretty sure we were about to get shot. 15:07 15 minutes, 7 seconds How so? 15:08 15 minutes, 8 seconds Uh there there was just, you know, we were under intense surveillance uh in DC leading up to the hearing and afterward. 15:18 15 minutes, 18 seconds And this was afterward. And we were out in public and Alex and I, we were with Jeremy. Jeremy was walking in front of 15:25 15 minutes, 25 seconds us and the other guys and ladies were behind us and there was a guy acting odd and we thought he was about to pull a 15:34 15 minutes, 34 seconds gun out of his bag and Alex and I picked up on it at the same moment and we focused our attention on him and either we were just paranoid 15:43 15 minutes, 43 seconds or the individual or we misinterpreted, you know, but nothing happened, right? You know, we we we got about 10 15:51 15 minutes, 51 seconds feet and I looked at Alex, he looked at me and and he was like, I thought we were about to get get smoked, man. I'm like, me too. [snorts] Wow. 16:00 16 minutes So, and that's the thing. You you end up in a paranoid state, right? So, that could have just been somebody maybe digging for their wallet or whatever, 16:09 16 minutes, 9 seconds but this is the psychological outcome of these operations on people, right? 16:15 16 minutes, 15 seconds You're watching crossing the road. you know, you've you've got that hyper vigilance, right? 16:22 16 minutes, 22 seconds So, wow. It's it's just incredible. I mean, to learn what was going on behind the scenes. Um, again, you know, because I I 16:31 16 minutes, 31 seconds don't want to try to make this seem like this is, you know, I'm faking reaction here. We I'm not I had literally never heard any of this from you over the past 16:39 16 minutes, 39 seconds six months. And we've spoken a few times um over the past six months, just just privately, and this is the first time I'm hearing this. So, I I am legit shocked right now hearing a lot of this. 16:48 16 minutes, 48 seconds Um, what kind of surveillance do do you feel like you guys were were enduring? I mean, what kind I guess just kind of 16:56 16 minutes, 56 seconds specifically like the surveillance, the intimidation that was happening? How was it happening? Um, the tactics and who do you think it was? Did they ever present 17:04 17 minutes, 4 seconds themselves as I'm so and so with this department? 17:09 17 minutes, 9 seconds No. And I I can't get into a lot of the details right now. a lot of that information will be coming out um or possibly but you could think you know 17:18 17 minutes, 18 seconds hacking attempts uh digital attacks being approached in public 17:25 17 minutes, 25 seconds um things like that. Uh, like I said, there there have been breakins, like physical breakins of our homes, 17:33 17 minutes, 33 seconds right? Messages have been left, physical messages. 17:38 17 minutes, 38 seconds So, wow. Very. Yeah. 17:41 17 minutes, 41 seconds So, you've gotten like in in the mailbox where they break into your home and leave a piece of paper saying in the home. What? 17:49 17 minutes, 49 seconds That's unbelievable. Yeah. 17:51 17 minutes, 51 seconds That's unreal. So, was was did this happen to all of you? 17:55 17 minutes, 55 seconds Uh, [snorts] not all. Some some Okay. Multiple people. Yeah. 17:59 17 minutes, 59 seconds Did Did you have a break-in? Did you suffer a break-in? I had someone in the house. Yeah. 18:04 18 minutes, 4 seconds Wow. Were you guys home or you came home declined? 18:07 18 minutes, 7 seconds We came home and immediately knew. Oh my god. 18:12 18 minutes, 12 seconds They leave a message. They leave. You know when you walk in someone has been in your home and they have done 18:21 18 minutes, 21 seconds something to let you know that, right? So they're they're not they're not hiding the fact they weren't being sneaky about looking for something. 18:29 18 minutes, 29 seconds They're sending a message. They're breaking in to send you a message. 18:31 18 minutes, 31 seconds Yeah. And the message is we can reach you anywhere you are. Doesn't matter if you're with your children. It doesn't matter if you're in public. It doesn't matter if you're in your home. 18:40 18 minutes, 40 seconds Here we are. My gosh. 18:42 18 minutes, 42 seconds And I've been sent that message multiple times. And in one case, I was with another whistleblower in public 18:52 18 minutes, 52 seconds and and someone came up to you guys in a public setting and said something or they didn't say a word, but they left a message. Is that right? 19:01 19 minutes, 1 second Yeah. This is wild. That was that was a couple of years ago. So, this has been ongoing. 19:07 19 minutes, 7 seconds Oh, wow. Okay. So, this is something right before you even got into the congressional setting. 19:11 19 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah. Are these Now when we say a message, okay, I'm sorry to harp on this so much, but this is this is just unbelievable. Um, are we talking like 19:20 19 minutes, 20 seconds they're leaving you a note with something written on it or they it's just like it's something that's giving the message along, right? Something you 19:28 19 minutes, 28 seconds see it and you're like, "Oh, okay. I know what this means." It could be a variety of both, but typically it's it's not a handwritten 19:35 19 minutes, 35 seconds message or explicit. It's inferred. So I could give you an example uh that Matthew Brown has talked about. He had a 19:43 19 minutes, 43 seconds variety of these things happening and then at one point they uh he came home and they had desecrated his grandfather's ashes. 19:55 19 minutes, 55 seconds So things like that, they'll hit you where it hurts. That's unreal. Yeah. 20:02 20 minutes, 2 seconds Um just incredible. I mean, did did were you guys able to go to the police at all and file reports or was it I mean, how did that work? 20:11 20 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah, in some cases, yeah, that's been the appropriate uh response and that has happened like for example with right before the 20:19 20 minutes, 19 seconds hearing, David Grush had a gun pulled on him, right? Right. Outside of Congress, he was heading that did happen. I heard that was a I heard that rumor so that he actually did have a gun pulled on him. 20:29 20 minutes, 29 seconds Yeah, that was not a rumor that was happening. 20:31 20 minutes, 31 seconds Oh my goodness. [clears throat] So, he was heading into uh I believe he was heading into a skiff to to do a briefing prior to the hearing. And and this is 20:39 20 minutes, 39 seconds how it plays out. It could have just been a random lunatic in DC 20:47 20 minutes, 47 seconds or it could have been a message. That's the am uh you know the ambiguous nature of it, 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds right? like who broke into Matthew's house and and desecrated the ashes and 21:00 21 minutes like we don't know, right? For sure, right? 21:04 21 minutes, 4 seconds We don't know who pulled the gun on David Grush or why, right? 21:09 21 minutes, 9 seconds But there's a pattern that emerges, right? There's if you've got five people and they're all having these strange encounters, 21:17 21 minutes, 17 seconds right, over a period of a few months, it could be a coincidence or not. And now we're can we know like we've we've 21:25 21 minutes, 25 seconds identified some of the bad actors. We know who they are. We know where they work. 21:30 21 minutes, 30 seconds So, and that that's what and that's incredibly important obviously. Um and I was going to ask that and I know it's I've I've asked it I guess already in a 21:40 21 minutes, 40 seconds couple ways and I don't want to push it too hard but uh just to to throw it out there one more time and if you can't talk about it I completely understand 21:47 21 minutes, 47 seconds but do we know where this was coming from? And what I mean by that is is this was this a directive do you feel anyway 21:56 21 minutes, 56 seconds from a government agency or was this a directive from you know one of the so-called shadow governments contractor 22:05 22 minutes, 5 seconds type thing or a little bit of both just you know from what you've been able to find out or your personal feeling on it. 22:13 22 minutes, 13 seconds Little bit of both. Um the way we're defining it is it's coming [clears throat] from the legacy program security apparatus basically right so 22:22 22 minutes, 22 seconds the this is a shadowy organization operating within the government right 22:29 22 minutes, 29 seconds it's incredible I mean you know and just I guess to to paint the picture right for people who might be hearing something like this for 22:37 22 minutes, 37 seconds the first time and they're shocked by it it's a perfect example just in my own personal life not to go too far off the track here because there's There's a lot still that I want to be able to get to 22:46 22 minutes, 46 seconds or get on, you know, wi with you, but I think just to paint the picture on the everyday populace, right? I do this, 22:53 22 minutes, 53 seconds right? I do what I do. I've been in the topic way before I was doing the show, but the show itself almost five years. 23:01 23 minutes, 1 second So, my wife knows what I do, right? She knows I I do this as part of my my broadcasting uh career is to produce UAP 23:10 23 minutes, 10 seconds and to have this show and to continue to put it out there. Um, and she knows what I'm into and she knows some of the 23:17 23 minutes, 17 seconds things of the people I talk to. I don't tell her everything because I don't want to get her involved with this. But I say this because just to point to paint the 23:25 23 minutes, 25 seconds picture of how much regular everyday people don't know about this stuff. We were driving uh through St. Augustine uh 23:34 23 minutes, 34 seconds not too long ago and I passed the building for Northrup Grumman and I'm like oh shoot Northrup Grumman. I didn't 23:41 23 minutes, 41 seconds know they had a facility here and it's all boarded up. You can't see anything in those buildings. I mean it's all boarded up. There's barb wire everywhere. And she says why what's 23:50 23 minutes, 50 seconds north of Grumman? I said, "You how long you've been married to me? You don't know what Northro Grumman is?" But so she had and I started to explain it to 23:58 23 minutes, 58 seconds her, you know, just in layman's terms about, yeah, you know, they do this, they do that with the government, and they might be behind some of the things with with aliens and reverse engineer 24:05 24 minutes, 5 seconds technology. But I I say that because when we talk about things like this, this might sound outlandish to people 24:13 24 minutes, 13 seconds and it's just it's just to paint the picture of how much everyday people who don't pay attention to the topic are so 24:20 24 minutes, 20 seconds in the dark about what's going on. So when you talk about people who are threatening you guys, like this is 24:28 24 minutes, 28 seconds something that is really happening like you're you're going through this. 24:32 24 minutes, 32 seconds Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's the thing it that is the problem we're having with the public, right? In getting the public engaged. 24:41 24 minutes, 41 seconds We're in this world. So, we already we already understand the landscape, right? 24:47 24 minutes, 47 seconds But if I'm if I were to go out on the a major media outlet today and start speaking about this, people would have no idea what I was talking about. 24:56 24 minutes, 56 seconds They're like, "This guy's a lunatic." Right. Right. 24:59 24 minutes, 59 seconds You know, he he So, and that's the problem, right? We're trying to to not only let the public know that UAP the phenomenon is real. 25:09 25 minutes, 9 seconds The the government is not only aware of it, but they're covering up that that truth. Reality is classified, right? Nature is classified. 25:18 25 minutes, 18 seconds And that they're also retaliating against government employees and and civilians for just trying to educate the public about it. 25:28 25 minutes, 28 seconds Right. Exactly. Right. And how how many would you say, Jeff? And I actually asked this question to Representative 25:35 25 minutes, 35 seconds Burlson not too long ago and uh his number was was fairly high. So I'm I'm curious to get your thoughts on this and 25:42 25 minutes, 42 seconds your answer on it. Um, how many witnesses and whistleblowers would you say are out there, government, military, 25:51 25 minutes, 51 seconds and otherwise that are willing to talk about, you know, even legacy program people who want to come out and talk that want to talk about this stuff but 26:00 26 minutes are too weary to do it because of exactly what you're going through. I mean, where where would you put a number like that just based off your experience? 26:08 26 minutes, 8 seconds It it's hard to say, but many many many um the issue is I mean I know personally 26:16 26 minutes, 16 seconds a few people um that could provide very valuable information to Congress, right? 26:23 26 minutes, 23 seconds And I I believe there's many many many more out there. The problem is we have to make it safe 26:30 26 minutes, 30 seconds for them to even speak with Congress and even secretly, right? Because what we're 26:38 26 minutes, 38 seconds dealing with, like if you take Dylan Borland's case for example, he went to Congress. He did the right thing. 26:47 26 minutes, 47 seconds He provided the information about what he knows about these legacy programs and the crash retrievalss and on and on. 26:55 26 minutes, 55 seconds They vetted him. They're like, "Okay, this guy's legit. It looks like credible information." They send him to the agency responsible for vetting, which is 27:04 27 minutes, 4 seconds Arrow, right? Arrow takes the testimony. They immediately classify it top secret. 27:12 27 minutes, 12 seconds They tell Dylan Borland, "Don't ever talk about this again or you're going to jail." Wow. 27:17 27 minutes, 17 seconds You're done. Right. We've classified your life. Wow. 27:22 27 minutes, 22 seconds And then because of that, he has to go to the uh inspector general for the intelligence community 27:30 27 minutes, 30 seconds and he tells them, "I'm being retaliated against. They've classified this information." And then things get worse. 27:38 27 minutes, 38 seconds You know, the intelligence community is like, "That's right. You had better shut your mouth and never speak about this 27:45 27 minutes, 45 seconds even to Congress or we will put you in jail." Right? So that's what's happening. 27:52 27 minutes, 52 seconds So [clears throat] people are clamoring for like, "Just bring out the whistleblowers." It's like if they're willing to do that 27:59 27 minutes, 59 seconds to Dylan, what are they going to do to the people that actually worked on a program? Yeah. Right. 28:08 28 minutes, 8 seconds So that's what we're dealing with and that's why Tulsi Gabard set up this dig. 28:13 28 minutes, 13 seconds The dig is a working group and they offered Dylan Borland and Matthew Brown and these other people to come in to 28:23 28 minutes, 23 seconds share what they know for exchange for protection. 28:27 28 minutes, 27 seconds M but we've got bad actors in that community. 28:33 28 minutes, 33 seconds So now that's the problem. We're trying to work with the government, but there are too many bad actors in the government, right? 28:43 28 minutes, 43 seconds So we need to protect ourselves and find a way to continue to work with the government. 28:50 28 minutes, 50 seconds Just amazing. It's it's it's it's frustrating. I mean, if I'm, you know, being honest to throw a word out there, it's frustrating in the sense of 28:59 28 minutes, 59 seconds for you guys, you know, you're you're putting yourselves out there and there are, you know, along with all the other people who want to talk about this stuff 29:07 29 minutes, 7 seconds and they feel like they can't and you're still work you're you're, you know, have all these people working against you. 29:13 29 minutes, 13 seconds You have people for you and against you and you have to try to work through all this essentially on your own. Yeah. Well, imagine the burden, right? 29:22 29 minutes, 22 seconds So imagine like you're in a company and you know that the company is defrauding people, right? Is stealing social 29:29 29 minutes, 29 seconds security money or something like that, right? And most of the people you're working with, they know about it, but they don't have the courage to do 29:37 29 minutes, 37 seconds anything about it. And then you go to Congress and you're like, "Listen, I've got evidence this is happening." And they're like, "Wow, this is 29:45 29 minutes, 45 seconds terrible." And they send you to, let's say, the FBI to report. And you give them all the information. These are the people stealing. This is how they're 29:53 29 minutes, 53 seconds they're laundering the money. These are the people that know. And then the FBI is like, "Thank you for the information. 29:59 29 minutes, 59 seconds We're classifying that. If you tell anybody about this, you're going to prison, right? 30:04 30 minutes, 4 seconds Not the people stealing. You're going to prison. That's what we're dealing with." 30:12 30 minutes, 12 seconds Man, this might sound like an elementary question because, well, you know, I would ask it and then of course the answer would be, well, they just don't want people to know about 30:19 30 minutes, 19 seconds extraterrestrials. But why? I mean, you know, why? It's just the simple question of why. Why is it that reaction? Why 30:28 30 minutes, 28 seconds does the intelligence committee or or or community um go to those lengths where 30:36 30 minutes, 36 seconds they threaten jail or they threaten the end of your career, you know, they threaten your retirement is gone. All these different things that will ruin 30:44 30 minutes, 44 seconds your life and ruin the life of your family. What is making them so uh stand firm against stuff like this coming out? 30:54 30 minutes, 54 seconds Because reality is classified literally like we are not allowed to 31:01 31 minutes, 1 second know the full nature of reality and the government is more aware of that reality than the public 31:10 31 minutes, 10 seconds and and they will do they have done whatever it takes to keep that secret. 31:16 31 minutes, 16 seconds Now, the why, it's a multitude of things, right? 31:20 31 minutes, 20 seconds Crimes have definitely been committed, right? The government has committed crimes to cover this up. 31:27 31 minutes, 27 seconds Um, and then you take the whole financial aspect of it. If that part is true, the reverse engineering where they're giving some corporations, 31:36 31 minutes, 36 seconds you know, advantage over others, that's a big problem. And then you have, 31:44 31 minutes, 44 seconds you know, all it it's just becomes a culture of secrecy, right? Yeah. 31:50 31 minutes, 50 seconds And I think it boils down to nature is more reality is more 31:57 31 minutes, 57 seconds mysterious and beautiful and and incredible than we can imagine. And I think that human beings know that in 32:05 32 minutes, 5 seconds instinctively, right? If you look at all of our observations from recorded history to now, 32:13 32 minutes, 13 seconds humans have been observing and recording the anomalous. That's what we focus on. 32:18 32 minutes, 18 seconds All of our religious texts, which are our most important human texts and literature ever produced, are about 32:26 32 minutes, 26 seconds lights in the sky and in the ocean and and things that are not supposed to be real. Yeah. 32:33 32 minutes, 33 seconds Right. And then we've been taught in this new materialistic world that that's all folklore and nonsense, 32:40 32 minutes, 40 seconds right? We've been told not to believe that it despite all of human history recording weird things happening, right? 32:49 32 minutes, 49 seconds Interactions with non-human intelligences. That's right. And I think that's what the coverup is. 32:55 32 minutes, 55 seconds I think part of the phenomenon is bizarre and alien and terrifying 33:02 33 minutes, 2 seconds and part of it is liberating and wonderful and you know incredible 33:09 33 minutes, 9 seconds and the powers that be understand that if we know those two truths their power structure will collapse 33:18 33 minutes, 18 seconds right and it's control they're controlling the narrative they're controlling what we think they're controlling where we Look where we take our curiosity and 33:26 33 minutes, 26 seconds attention. You know, they don't want physicists exploring physics, right? Because what what they might 33:36 33 minutes, 36 seconds uncover what is actually going on. So, you tamp down curiosity. You stigmatize 33:43 33 minutes, 43 seconds curiosity and wonderment. You tell people that they're stupid and they're ignorant for exploring strange ideas. 33:52 33 minutes, 52 seconds And you keep us all locked in a materialistic box. There's nothing to see here. Right. Right. Yeah. 33:59 33 minutes, 59 seconds That that's what it it is. It's control. 34:02 34 minutes, 2 seconds Yeah. No, it makes perfect sense. Um, you know, and it's and it's a shame obviously, but that's it's I I agree 34:09 34 minutes, 9 seconds with you. I think it probably comes down to all those elements. Um, just incredible stuff, Jeff. I mean, you know, to to learn about what's been 34:18 34 minutes, 18 seconds going on before, during, and since the hearings, where do things stand now for you guys? Have the has the intimidation, 34:27 34 minutes, 27 seconds the threats, the the breakins, all those different things. Have that has that stuff calmed down? Is it still happening? And, you know, I know you 34:35 34 minutes, 35 seconds talked about the judiciary process as well. So, is it still happening? And what are the next steps? What are you guys trying to do next? So, we've uh so 34:43 34 minutes, 43 seconds for me it it is I've had no incidents uh since the hearing. Okay. 34:50 34 minutes, 50 seconds Things have been cool. I'm like, okay, I get, you know, I'm not 100% sure on the other uh people, but things have 34:58 34 minutes, 58 seconds definitely been toned down. I mean, leading up to the hearing, it was insane. 35:03 35 minutes, 3 seconds Um and and now what we're trying to do, we've been gathering evidence. We've identified some of the bad actors that 35:11 35 minutes, 11 seconds are um you know conducting this operation, this this counter intelligence operation on us and uh 35:19 35 minutes, 19 seconds we're going to move forward with legal action when when we're prepared, you know, we've got evidence. 35:27 35 minutes, 27 seconds Wow. 35:28 35 minutes, 28 seconds Not just rumors, speculation. I mean, we've got data about who's doing what and how it can be 35:35 35 minutes, 35 seconds because that's the question, right? How can we move forward? How can we get more witnesses and whistleblowers to come forward? And obviously, it's those protections. So, how does this all 35:44 35 minutes, 44 seconds change? I mean, is it really just as simple as trying to name names and, you know, take take the the the hood off and 35:52 35 minutes, 52 seconds see who's under the hood and, you know, what what mask they're wearing? Is that's is that the first step? That's Yeah, that's part of it. 35:59 35 minutes, 59 seconds Yeah. we start to expose with evidence the people that are conducting the counter intelligence 36:07 36 minutes, 7 seconds operation on us and the American people and the Congress. 36:12 36 minutes, 12 seconds How is this being taken in the intelligence uh communities Jeeoff as far as I mean even Tulsi Gabbard herself as far as you know I mean I would assume 36:21 36 minutes, 21 seconds they would find it pretty disturbing and and disheartening that they have agents working against their their own agenda. 36:27 36 minutes, 27 seconds I mean, do you know how this is being taken within the intelligence sectors? 36:31 36 minutes, 31 seconds Uh, it's being taken seriously. That's okay. What I'll I'll say. 36:37 36 minutes, 37 seconds Okay. No. And that's that's perfectly fine as long as it's being taken seriously and they're not trying to brush us away, right? And they're saying, "Oh, well, yeah. Okay. We'll 36:44 36 minutes, 44 seconds look at that later." So, but they are taken seriously and they they're they're they're disturbed by this. 36:51 36 minutes, 51 seconds Yeah. And behind the scenes, in my humble opinion, the UFO topic is the most important topic in the federal 37:00 37 minutes government. Well, it's really interesting you say that because of two things. Number one, with a war going on right now, it's very understandable to 37:09 37 minutes, 9 seconds um you know to to think or to have someone say to you, "We'll get to this down the road." Right? If that's what somebody is saying, then it's understandable because they obviously want to concentrate on the task at hand. 37:20 37 minutes, 20 seconds But it's also interesting because it goes handinhand with with what uh Congressman Burlson has said here and on 37:28 37 minutes, 28 seconds other interviews and in other statements which is ever since President Trump said I want this stuff to come out there or 37:35 37 minutes, 35 seconds that that truth social post that he put up I guess about three or four weeks ago now. Um, Congressman Burlson said that 37:43 37 minutes, 43 seconds agenda that that mission went from number 599 on a list of 600 things to 37:50 37 minutes, 50 seconds now number three, two or close to one, maybe a 1A. So now you're you're seeing that same thing. 37:59 37 minutes, 59 seconds Absolutely. Yeah. 38:00 38 minutes So what do you think that means going forward as far as those in charge like you know whether it's uh FBI or DNI, 38:07 38 minutes, 7 seconds CIA? I mean, John Ratcliffe's the, you know, CIA head of the CIA, the the director, spoke about this openly a few years ago, ironically enough, on Fox 38:16 38 minutes, 16 seconds News when Pete Hexth, the current Secretary of Defense, Secretary of War, was a was a correspondent on Fox News. 38:22 38 minutes, 22 seconds They spoke about it together there. And John Ratcliffe, the current head of the CIA, was very open about, yeah, there's there's stuff there, and it might be 38:30 38 minutes, 30 seconds extraterrestrial. So, now they're both in these positions of power, and the president has told them to to take it seriously. So, do you see Jeff something 38:38 38 minutes, 38 seconds really moving forward here? Maybe even sometime this year before 2026 is up. 38:46 38 minutes, 46 seconds I hope so. The what's happening is the the congressional hearings have lit a fire in the Fed that cannot be put out. 38:57 38 minutes, 57 seconds And there are enough people in the government that are aware that this phenomenon is very very real 39:07 39 minutes, 7 seconds that now that it's public, they they have to address it. And you know, it's gone up. We've had multiple presidents 39:16 39 minutes, 16 seconds talking about it, multiple CIA chiefs talking about it, and on and on. So, we're beyond the point to where 39:24 39 minutes, 24 seconds there there's no question the phenomenon is real. 39:28 39 minutes, 28 seconds It's just do we have the courage to face it, right? That's what I said in the hearing, right? 39:32 39 minutes, 32 seconds Like, and you're seeing the political capital and courage to face it now. 39:40 39 minutes, 40 seconds that's coming from from the president on down the Tulsa ga gabard this CIA all the leadership 39:47 39 minutes, 47 seconds in these uh important agencies are openly discussing UFOs right right yeah everybody from the you know 39:56 39 minutes, 56 seconds the secretary of state to the CIA to the DNI to the president to the vice 40:03 40 minutes, 3 seconds president has spoken about it in the last year so there there's no putting this genie back in the bottle. They have to address it now. 40:14 40 minutes, 14 seconds So, the more pressure that we the people and the podcasters can keep on the media and the 40:21 40 minutes, 21 seconds government, the better. We can't let the fire go out. 40:27 40 minutes, 27 seconds Yeah, I think I think that's perfectly said and I think that's probably uh the right framing with all this right now. I think you're absolutely right. Um, and 40:35 40 minutes, 35 seconds it's important I think it's an important acknowledgement to say that's kind of the landscape right now. And it's it's it's Yeah, I totally agree with you. 40:43 40 minutes, 43 seconds Um, did you notice a difference after the hearing say before you came in and of course you know Burlson and Bett and 40:52 40 minutes, 52 seconds and Luna uh have all been very interested in this. They've kind of been the big three. I would say probably Jared Moscowitz is very interested this 41:00 41 minutes as well. um congressman here from from from Florida and that makes it, you know, bipartisan. He's Democrat, they're Republican. So, you have that bipartisan 41:08 41 minutes, 8 seconds support and interest in this. But aside from those who have already been interested in it, did you notice a change in tone from other congressional 41:17 41 minutes, 17 seconds members after the hearing was over? AB: Absolutely. Yeah, we we really made an 41:23 41 minutes, 23 seconds impact and um we had multiple staffers in in Congress, men and women, uh come 41:30 41 minutes, 30 seconds up and tell us that we really made them think and open their mind about the topic. 41:36 41 minutes, 36 seconds So yeah, and and we already had um you know, David Grush has been doing a lot of work behind the scenes making 41:45 41 minutes, 45 seconds alliances and allies and um so a lot has been going on you know in the government that it that UFO Twitter will never be aware of. 41:55 41 minutes, 55 seconds Yeah. 41:56 41 minutes, 56 seconds So a lot of work has been happening behind the scenes. So, uh, yeah, we made 42:02 42 minutes, 2 seconds an impact and and the whole topic is really rising to prominence now. 42:09 42 minutes, 9 seconds That's great. Um, yeah. 42:10 42 minutes, 10 seconds Well, actually, kind of speaking of which, we talked about not being able to put the genie back in the bottle on the federal government side. They just came out with within the past couple of days, 42:19 42 minutes, 19 seconds um, a new website. And [laughter] I want to get your your reaction to this. We saw the news that's and this is 42:27 42 minutes, 27 seconds verified. It's a real thing. um that the federal government has uh registered the domain aliens.gov and alien.gov. 42:37 42 minutes, 37 seconds Yeah. 42:38 42 minutes, 38 seconds So, what do we make of that? I mean, is this referring to what we think it's referring to? 42:43 42 minutes, 43 seconds Who [clears throat] knows, man? I I almost think they're trolling us, you know, half the time. 42:50 42 minutes, 50 seconds So, I don't know. You know, if you look back, okay, it the president, President Trump, you know, I think was that last 42:58 42 minutes, 58 seconds year he was on Rogan, right? 43:01 43 minutes, 1 second Rogan asked him about it and he started talking about the space people coming down, right? And then he kind of changed 43:09 43 minutes, 9 seconds his tone and yeah, you know, who knows? 43:14 43 minutes, 14 seconds Yeah, who knows, man. me my my my first reaction is and maybe I'm way off base here, but my first reaction was they're 43:22 43 minutes, 22 seconds kind of laying the groundwork and maybe this is wishful thinking, but that they would be laying the groundwork for a place where they can upload files, right? The announcement is made. It's 43:30 43 minutes, 30 seconds it's post announcement. The announcement is made, those websites go live. Hey, we told you what's going on for the most part. If you want to learn more, go to 43:38 43 minutes, 38 seconds aliens.gov and you can read the history on this and see some pictures and videos that are newly declassified. That was my first read on it. Again, maybe wishful 43:47 43 minutes, 47 seconds thinking, but I mean, I don't know. What do you What do you think? Yeah, it could be something like that. 43:51 43 minutes, 51 seconds Or it could be what we're all waiting for. And it could be President Trump comes out in a couple weeks. He's like, "Okay, the aliens are here. The space people are here. 44:01 44 minutes, 1 second Who knows? What's the link on a truth social post? Go here. Have fun." I don't know. 44:06 44 minutes, 6 seconds It could. Yeah, it could be. Um, it's just unreal. There was something that um actually one one of the main things I want to talk to you about and I'll bring 44:13 44 minutes, 13 seconds it up here towards the end because I I just didn't expect all the other conversations to come up with which were hugely important and I'm glad we got to 44:20 44 minutes, 20 seconds cover all that. But I I wanted to ask you about what's going on with the Vargia case. Um, I had on James Fox on 44:30 44 minutes, 30 seconds the show here back in late December. And it turns out we were going to we were going to do the show uh before his his 44:39 44 minutes, 39 seconds new film came out, kind of a you know, a sequel to what he had already done with the Vargia case. Um, and turns out that 44:46 44 minutes, 46 seconds I get an email the day before saying, "Hey, if you don't mind, James is going to be in Brazil. Is it still okay if we 44:54 44 minutes, 54 seconds do the the interview like an hour later than we originally planned?" I said, "Yeah, sure." You know, I I can be flexible. And we did that and we spoke 45:01 45 minutes, 1 second about the new film. We spoke about the, you know, the new interviews he had in there with with the neurosurgeon. Just incredible stuff. And then I come to 45:08 45 minutes, 8 seconds find out there's little old Jeff Nucatelli in Brazil at the same time as I was talking with Jame Fox. You guys were there together. Yeah. 45:17 45 minutes, 17 seconds And you were there to help investigate this case. So, what have you learned behind the scenes when it comes to Varia? What have you guys been working 45:24 45 minutes, 24 seconds on with what I think and the reason why I bring it up now because I think this is if not the most, it's one of the top 45:31 45 minutes, 31 seconds three most important and credible cases in all of UFO lore. So, what's going on with that that that you've learned? 45:38 45 minutes, 38 seconds Yeah, I agree. Right now, it is the number one case, right? Um there's a huge amount of collaborating data, 45:47 45 minutes, 47 seconds so many witnesses, it's like mindboggling. Um, but yeah, I went down there. 45:54 45 minutes, 54 seconds James invited me down and uh I I got to meet all of the witnesses, the ones that are known in the film and unknown. 46:04 46 minutes, 4 seconds And we got to spend a lot of time with them. 46:08 46 minutes, 8 seconds You get to know these people. You get to know their families and and their children and their friends. 46:15 46 minutes, 15 seconds And then you come away from that experience with very little doubt, right? There's like no doubt that these 46:22 46 minutes, 22 seconds people are are making it up or lying or grifting. 46:28 46 minutes, 28 seconds Um and yeah, and that's the thing, man. 46:31 46 minutes, 31 seconds It's like if that case isn't real, I don't know what is real. Hm. 46:37 46 minutes, 37 seconds And um it was incredibly powerful and emotional and and uh life-changing to meet all those 46:45 46 minutes, 45 seconds people and get the firsthand accounts and, you know, I got to meet the military people that transported, you 46:53 46 minutes, 53 seconds know, that drove the trucks and and everybody in between. They drove the body and everything. 46:58 46 minutes, 58 seconds Yeah, man. you know, and they know where it was taken and they So, what we're doing now, 47:05 47 minutes, 5 seconds uh, you know, James is like that close to the video. Oh, wow. 47:10 47 minutes, 10 seconds Multiple times. Like, if it exists, he's been within, you know, arms reach of it a few times. 47:17 47 minutes, 17 seconds And this is this is the legendary video that purportedly shows the actual alien outside of the craft, right? Like that video in the hospital room. Yeah. 47:26 47 minutes, 26 seconds In the hospital room. Okay. In the hospital room. Yeah. 47:29 47 minutes, 29 seconds And uh you know, we've got verified witness testimony that that video is real and it was it was shot and uh it's 47:37 47 minutes, 37 seconds just trying to get our hands on it. And we're also like James wants to get the flight logs if they exist. 47:47 47 minutes, 47 seconds And um we've got some really good people on the team now. We've got some ex Air Force people like uh Lieutenant or Colonel Fred Clawson. 47:57 47 minutes, 57 seconds uh you know he's helping trying to track down some of this information and figure out the logistics plan like how they 48:04 48 minutes, 4 seconds would have had to get to Brazil and back and we're hoping you know the more we push and the more we dig that we're we're finally going to get a break and 48:12 48 minutes, 12 seconds that video is going to manifest or the flight logs or more information right because as far as we know the flight log would include US military 48:21 48 minutes, 21 seconds craft right that supposedly came to um uh Brazil to pick up the alien body, right? 48:29 48 minutes, 29 seconds Because that's that's those are the reports that the US military took the body back to somewhere, I guess, within the United States. Yeah. 48:37 48 minutes, 37 seconds So, if we can if we can find a flight log that matches that, then obviously that's a nice smoking gun. Yeah. Right. 48:43 48 minutes, 43 seconds And I mean, that video, do we know as far as from what you and James have been able to uncover um I guess you know over this past six months, let alone the past years that that he's been working on it. 48:54 48 minutes, 54 seconds Do we know who took the video as far as private citizen versus hospital staff versus government military? 49:02 49 minutes, 2 seconds Uh there there were multiple videos alleged, right? Some were by hospital 49:09 49 minutes, 9 seconds staff. Uh others I can't remember off the top of my head who who made that video uh in the room with Dr. Ethalo. 49:18 49 minutes, 18 seconds Um, I don't remember if that was military or hospital staff, but allegedly what was happening was the Brazilians were getting angry 49:27 49 minutes, 27 seconds because the Americans showed up and just started bossing everybody around. Like they came into the hospital and you know, 49:34 49 minutes, 34 seconds uh, and and people started getting angry and they're like, "Go get a camera." And they started filming like, "We need to 49:41 49 minutes, 41 seconds document what is happening here with these Americans coming in." So, we think that there's multiple 49:47 49 minutes, 47 seconds videos We we're pretty sure, you know, that that one is out there. 49:53 49 minutes, 53 seconds Wow. And it stays covered up obviously, I guess, for the same reasons we've been talking about here today, which is out of fear and intimidation, I suppose, right? 50:02 50 minutes, 2 seconds Yeah. There are um from what I remember, there are people shown in the video, uh you know, that were just bystanders that 50:10 50 minutes, 10 seconds do not do not want to ever be public, right? 50:15 50 minutes, 15 seconds Yeah. So it might have to take until those those people pass away, you know. 50:20 50 minutes, 20 seconds So that might be another 20 or 30 years, you know, because people are still in their late 40s. Yeah. Right. Right. 50:28 50 minutes, 28 seconds So yeah, just just unreal stuff. And you know, we talk about because we we we know that case very well. And it just this is kind 50:36 50 minutes, 36 seconds of you know to illustrate again for someone who doesn't know like if you were in a you know a Starbucks or a Panera Bread something where you you 50:44 50 minutes, 44 seconds know you sit down you're having a cup of coffee and and a sandwich and someone just like hey you know what do you do 50:51 50 minutes, 51 seconds what and you start to tell them about what you do and what you've been up to. 50:56 50 minutes, 56 seconds What would you say to the person who like my wife is a good example who knows nothing about this and I don't even mention any of this stuff to her because 51:05 51 minutes, 5 seconds I just I want to I want to leave her in her world so she doesn't have to be consumed by this like I've been. Um what would you say to somebody like that 51:13 51 minutes, 13 seconds about this case that you feel would just take them to that level of like wait what this is going on? 51:22 51 minutes, 22 seconds Yeah, it's hard because it's so big of a case. It's so complicated, right? And there's so many witnesses. Yeah. 51:29 51 minutes, 29 seconds But um yeah, I tell them, you know, basically what I say is in 1996 51:36 51 minutes, 36 seconds something happened in Baria that ignited the curiosity of the entire country of Brazil. It was on the news every day for months. 51:48 51 minutes, 48 seconds And you know, take it or leave it, whatever you think happened, but hundreds of people claimed to have seen 51:55 51 minutes, 55 seconds UFOs, UFOs crash, and aliens running around, you know, and the government's response 52:03 52 minutes, 3 seconds was, "This is a national security incident. There's nothing to see here. 52:09 52 minutes, 9 seconds Shut up and quit asking questions." Right. 52:13 52 minutes, 13 seconds And then leave it at that. Like then what happened? 52:16 52 minutes, 16 seconds Yeah. Exactly. If the if it wasn't what we're saying happened, what did happen? 52:21 52 minutes, 21 seconds Because something definitely happened in Vary, right? Some I mean, these people saw something. Like you said, this isn't these aren't people who are, you know, 52:29 52 minutes, 29 seconds trying to gain followers on social media to tell the story. They don't even want to tell the story and they they Every time we would talk to somebody, more leads open. 52:40 52 minutes, 40 seconds And we would talk to somebody, they're like, "Oh, yeah. I know about it, but you need to go talk to my cousin in this other town." Wow. 52:46 52 minutes, 46 seconds He saw it or his wife saw it or and by the time you leave Brazil, you've got 30 other witnesses to track down. 52:56 52 minutes, 56 seconds Geez. 52:57 52 minutes, 57 seconds And people just walk up to you on the street and they're like, "Oh yeah, you know, my cousin told me about it when I was a kid." You know, and some people 53:05 53 minutes, 5 seconds are like, "That's all bullshit." I I talked to a lot of people in Brazil. I'm like, "What do you think?" They're like, "This is bullshit." And you're like, "Well, what happened?" They're like, "I 53:13 53 minutes, 13 seconds don't know." It's like, okay, but the mindset is it was nothing because nothing happened. Well, something happened, right? 53:20 53 minutes, 20 seconds Yeah, it's incredible stuff. Um, yeah, I I I could talk to you just about that for the next hour, but uh be before we're 53:29 53 minutes, 29 seconds done on this on this edition here, Jeff, and maybe we can, you know, come back and and do this again soon because it's just fantastic, you know, getting 53:37 53 minutes, 37 seconds this having these conversations with you. And I think it's super important, super helpful, uh, for, you know, 53:45 53 minutes, 45 seconds movements forward for for this entire discussion, for this entire disclosure movement. Um, I really value, you know, what you and and the other guys are 53:53 53 minutes, 53 seconds doing. I think it's incredibly important. 53:55 53 minutes, 55 seconds But yeah, absolutely. And before we're done, I was curious about this because sitting there at the hearing, just to go back to that real quick, 54:04 54 minutes, 4 seconds um, a couple rows behind you guys, I was fortunate enough to to be in that room. 54:09 54 minutes, 9 seconds And I can only imagine what one of the things I was thinking to myself was number one how nervous you guys must be 54:16 54 minutes, 16 seconds but number two and we spoke about that um number two you must have so much that you want to say but you can't say it all 54:25 54 minutes, 25 seconds because of time constraints and other witnesses who are being addressed and to get their turn. So looking back on that, 54:33 54 minutes, 33 seconds what sticks in your mind of the things that you really wanted to get out there to the public in front of the cameras, 54:41 54 minutes, 41 seconds but you just weren't able to do it because of, you know, you didn't have enough time to say it. 54:47 54 minutes, 47 seconds I I got the information out, but I don't think it landed. 54:51 54 minutes, 51 seconds I wanted the public to know that when these incidents at Vandenberg were happening, it wasn't just like one or 54:58 54 minutes, 58 seconds two people. There were like a hundred of us on duty when these things happened. Wow. 55:05 55 minutes, 5 seconds And you know, not everybody saw it. You might only have five people that saw the craft in one incident, but everyone 55:14 55 minutes, 14 seconds heard it playing out over the radio, right? And everybody knew what was happening. And every one of these cases 55:23 55 minutes, 23 seconds was documented, meaning a police report was typed up with all the witnesses, all the information, a description of the 55:30 55 minutes, 30 seconds object, where it came from, where it everything, right? Not only that, 55:37 55 minutes, 37 seconds our entire chain of command was notified every single time. And there are records of that, like by name, like 10 people that were notified in the command post. 55:48 55 minutes, 48 seconds my commander, my superintendent, right? 55:52 55 minutes, 52 seconds On and on. And that's what uh I really wanted to land. Like, it's not just me. This is not my story. 56:00 56 minutes I'm speaking for all those military members that lived through those incursions at Vandenberg, right? Whether they believe it was an 56:09 56 minutes, 9 seconds alien or not or a UFO or not, right? The events happened and they were documented and they were, you know, investigated in 56:18 56 minutes, 18 seconds Upchan and everything that happened. There was really no stigma or or anything like 56:28 56 minutes, 28 seconds that at Vandenberg until the craft landed on our flight line. And I think 56:36 56 minutes, 36 seconds really I don't know if I knew that and forgot, but I feel like I would remember that. So it did land. Yeah, we had a landing 56:44 56 minutes, 44 seconds with witnesses. Right. So, this is what's kind of driving me like to madness. You know, the community they're talking about is the Hollowman landing 56:52 56 minutes, 52 seconds real? Is this landing real? We've got a modern case with with credible military 57:00 57 minutes witnesses that are still alive and willing to talk about it. 57:03 57 minutes, 3 seconds It was 2004, right? This that one was 2003. It was uh we know the date the landing occurred between 57:12 57 minutes, 12 seconds October 14th, 2003 and the end of the month because the witness deployed to Iraq on Halloween night. 57:21 57 minutes, 21 seconds So we know the time frame, right? 57:24 57 minutes, 24 seconds And that's when the tone changed after one of these craft came and landed on our base and there was nothing we could do about it. 57:33 57 minutes, 33 seconds Wow. Then the tone changed and then OSI came in and all the spooks came in and they were like, "You people need to shut 57:41 57 minutes, 41 seconds up and quit calling in the UFOs." And I think that didn't land like it I' 57:50 57 minutes, 50 seconds I've told that story. I've had Grant on my podcast. He's talked about it. But it just it goes right over the head of people. 57:58 57 minutes, 58 seconds Yeah. It's massive, you know, and that's why I'm I'm excited. There's more Vandenberg. The good thing about the hearing 58:06 58 minutes, 6 seconds it, that case landed with the military community, maybe not the public, and because 58:13 58 minutes, 13 seconds everybody gets into the video stole the show, right? The hellfire missile. Sure. Yes. And then everything else like whatever. 58:20 58 minutes, 20 seconds We got a hellfire missile and UFOs, right? Um, but when I when we talked about this stuff in the hearing, the 58:28 58 minutes, 28 seconds military community started to reach out and they're like, I was at Vandenberg. 58:33 58 minutes, 33 seconds I've got more information. So, I'm hoping to bring more witnesses out. 58:38 58 minutes, 38 seconds These are incredibly credible people with incredible stories and um and I'm hoping more and more 58:46 58 minutes, 46 seconds people are encouraged by that. And we're gonna get more data coming from, you know, Army personnel and Navy personnel and Coast Guard personnel. 58:56 58 minutes, 56 seconds And then we just get this flood of information and witnesses. Right. Right. Keep those dominoes falling. 59:01 59 minutes, 1 second Exactly. Um, just real quick on on the landing because again, I shame on me. I don't know if I forgot that detail. I I 59:09 59 minutes, 9 seconds feel like I would remember maybe I for whatever reason I wasn't aware of that because that's a that's a really really big deal when we talk about a landing of 59:18 59 minutes, 18 seconds a craft on a military base especially one like Vandenberg which is one of the you know like main bases in in the country. Um 59:27 59 minutes, 27 seconds was that the red cube that that landed or was a different craft? It was uh another very low I could show you an 59:36 59 minutes, 36 seconds image that my friend put together with AI. Okay. 59:38 59 minutes, 38 seconds But it was a another large very large multilevel craft with like 59:46 59 minutes, 46 seconds windows around the top. It was big and it was called in as a unannounced aircraft landing. This thing was coming 59:54 59 minutes, 54 seconds on approach to land. And my friend, you know, they observed it for a while. him and his partner. They called it in. We 1:00:01 1 hour, 1 second went on alert. He said, "We've got an unannounced aircraft arrival. Something unknown coming in. We have a whole protocol to deal with that. Contain it." 1:00:10 1 hour, 10 seconds And the craft came in, landed on the flight line, and before anybody could get there, just it was gone. 1:00:18 1 hour, 18 seconds Instantaneous acceleration off the base. 1:00:21 1 hour, 21 seconds And I mean, this thing sounds like it was huge. Am I right? It was another like you know there was a tree line between the witnesses and the flight line. 1:00:31 1 hour, 31 seconds Okay. 1:00:31 1 hour, 31 seconds And the light was very bright but um you know they couldn't make out all the details but they've got a decent 1:00:39 1 hour, 39 seconds description and it was a large multilevel craft. 1:00:43 1 hour, 43 seconds Are we talking or are we talking about like a cube shape like like the red like the red cube? Was this another cube or is this a saucer a cigar tic tac? It was 1:00:51 1 hour, 51 seconds I think it was more squareish but multi-levelled like kind of tiered. I I'll have to find the the picture and maybe clip it in. 1:01:00 1 hour, 1 minute For sure. Yeah. If you I was going to say if you don't mind, you know, obviously when we're done if you can send that to me and I'll uh I'll put it out on on social media if you're okay with that. 1:01:08 1 hour, 1 minute, 8 seconds Yeah, absolutely. We can. 1:01:10 1 hour, 1 minute, 10 seconds And I can introduce you to Grant. You could talk to him. You know, he's out public. 1:01:14 1 hour, 1 minute, 14 seconds Yeah. No, that would that would be great. and we, you know, get more talk about this this event even more. Um, for sure because that that feels like it 1:01:22 1 hour, 1 minute, 22 seconds should be like a bigger deal. And I don't I don't mean offense by saying that like, you know, I can't believe, you know, this is this is no big deal. 1:01:29 1 hour, 1 minute, 29 seconds No, this should be right. I mean, this should be a really big deal. Like, this people should be talking about this that you had a landing of a multi-layered 1:01:38 1 hour, 1 minute, 38 seconds craft on Vandenberg Air Force. Is it still called? It was Air Force Base then. Is it Is it Space Force Base now? Yeah. Yeah. 1:01:45 1 hour, 1 minute, 45 seconds And so you mean you had this landing at Vandenberg 2003 October and then you have instantaneous acceleration. Why don't we hear about this more? 1:01:56 1 hour, 1 minute, 56 seconds Exactly. It's unbelievable. 1:02:00 1 hour, 2 minutes Um wow. And that was just one of the craft scene. I know again we had the red cube incident there as well. Um, we talked we we we've spoken about the 1:02:07 1 hour, 2 minutes, 7 seconds other triangle craft that was seen by one of your friends that came over while he was I believe in his uh in his vehicle. Yep. 1:02:16 1 hour, 2 minutes, 16 seconds Was Yeah. And that craft was larger than a C130. Oh my gosh. 1:02:20 1 hour, 2 minutes, 20 seconds You talk like 300 foot wingspan or something like that. I mean and that and that was a triangle, right? That was the triangle. Yeah. 1:02:29 1 hour, 2 minutes, 29 seconds Unreal. Did they any any sense of propulsion on any on any of these craft? 1:02:34 1 hour, 2 minutes, 34 seconds No, it matches all the other descriptions, right? These are completely silent, no propulsion. 1:02:42 1 hour, 2 minutes, 42 seconds Yeah. Well, wow, Jeff, this has been unreal. 1:02:46 1 hour, 2 minutes, 46 seconds Honestly, this is uh just an incredible conversation. I truly appreciate you doing this here on on UAP today. Um 1:02:53 1 hour, 2 minutes, 53 seconds we'll have to come back and and keep going on a couple of things, but if you don't mind, we can, you know, continue another time. 1:03:00 1 hour, 3 minutes Oh, absolutely, man. Anytime. Yeah, it's it's just great stuff and I I appreciate it's just incredibly important information that I think for people to 1:03:08 1 hour, 3 minutes, 8 seconds hear um to put into to perspective that you know you were there when that happened and then all the other things that you've experienced with the 1:03:17 1 hour, 3 minutes, 17 seconds hearings and what's going on right now behind the scenes. So hugely important and I I appreciate it. Um, before we're 1:03:24 1 hour, 3 minutes, 24 seconds done, I guess on a lighter note, uh, we got something pretty cool coming up for Contact in the desert. You're going to 1:03:32 1 hour, 3 minutes, 32 seconds be there and you're going to be a speaker. Um, hopefully we can link up. 1:03:36 1 hour, 3 minutes, 36 seconds I'll be there on the weekend of it on Saturday and Sunday. Oh, great. Right on, man. Yeah. 1:03:40 1 hour, 3 minutes, 40 seconds Yeah, that'll be awesome. But tell me about uh what what to expect from your appearances at Contact in the Desert this year. For anybody who doesn't know, 1:03:48 1 hour, 3 minutes, 48 seconds it's the biggest UFO conference there is. uh happens in Palm Springs May 28th, I believe it begins, and goes through uh 1:03:57 1 hour, 3 minutes, 57 seconds June 1st. So, it's a huge five-day event. So, yeah, what what can we expect? 1:04:01 1 hour, 4 minutes, 1 second So, yeah, I'm going to uh be giving a number of talks. I'm still working it out because things are changing so rapidly. Maybe now I'll be talking about what's coming, right? 1:04:11 1 hour, 4 minutes, 11 seconds But, uh yeah, I I will be there. 1:04:13 1 hour, 4 minutes, 13 seconds Really looking forward to it. Uh looking forward to meeting people in person and just hanging out. That's the best part. 1:04:20 1 hour, 4 minutes, 20 seconds Yeah, these events for me, man, it just getting to know people and um so yeah, I'll be talking about a variety of different things including the 1:04:29 1 hour, 4 minutes, 29 seconds Vandenberg incidents, um you know, what's going on uh behind the scenes in Congress as much as I can talk about and 1:04:36 1 hour, 4 minutes, 36 seconds in the government in general, and primarily about what's coming next, like what our plan is to walk all this 1:04:45 1 hour, 4 minutes, 45 seconds information out, um our plan to to take this to court and on and on. So hopefully, you know, I'll have a a 1:04:52 1 hour, 4 minutes, 52 seconds pretty good presentation. I'd also like to talk about um if I have a chance and opportunity 1:04:59 1 hour, 4 minutes, 59 seconds just wildly speculate like about, you know, what we're dealing with and the ontology we're dealing with and the 1:05:07 1 hour, 5 minutes, 7 seconds phenomenon in general. I'd like to just give kind of a a talk about just wild speculation and and theories about what 1:05:15 1 hour, 5 minutes, 15 seconds we're dealing with. I think that'd be fun to kind of get away from the hard evidence and everything I'm always, you know, dealing with. 1:05:23 1 hour, 5 minutes, 23 seconds So, yeah, I'm looking forward to it, man. It's going to be uh a lot of fun. 1:05:27 1 hour, 5 minutes, 27 seconds And my good friend and um produ uh executive producer for my podcast, Tom Vernon, is going to be there. 1:05:35 1 hour, 5 minutes, 35 seconds Oh, cool. 1:05:36 1 hour, 5 minutes, 36 seconds I'm not sure if he's going to be speaking, but uh he'll be with me. 1:05:39 1 hour, 5 minutes, 39 seconds And uh my other friend, Scott Garin, will be there. I think I spoke to Scott. Yeah, he was on here. 1:05:45 1 hour, 5 minutes, 45 seconds I think you interviewed Scott, so I'm super excited about that. He has, um, Scott is a legendary Air Force special 1:05:53 1 hour, 5 minutes, 53 seconds operator, uh, experiencer, and he he has some of the best video and images of a UAP I've ever seen in my life. 1:06:03 1 hour, 6 minutes, 3 seconds Yeah. 1:06:03 1 hour, 6 minutes, 3 seconds So, I'm I'm really excited. He'll be there, too. So, looking forward to it, man. 1:06:08 1 hour, 6 minutes, 8 seconds Ah, it's great stuff. No, that's awesome. I'm I'm looking forward to it, too. Like I said, hopefully uh you know, I know there's a lot of moving parts at contact in the desert, but hopefully we 1:06:15 1 hour, 6 minutes, 15 seconds can meet up uh while we're there. That'd be great. Right on. 1:06:19 1 hour, 6 minutes, 19 seconds Oh, Jeeoff, this has been fantastic. Um before we go, for anybody who's not following you anywhere for your show, uh what you're doing on social media, how 1:06:27 1 hour, 6 minutes, 27 seconds do people uh find you and keep up with with everything that you're doing? 1:06:30 1 hour, 6 minutes, 30 seconds Uh yes, so my podcast is the Jeff Nusatelli podcast. You can find that on YouTube. It's only on YouTube at the moment. Uh we haven't put a lot of 1:06:38 1 hour, 6 minutes, 38 seconds content out in the last few months because I have been traveling almost non-stop. Yeah. 1:06:43 1 hour, 6 minutes, 43 seconds Um so there I'm on Twitter and uh Instagram now. I'm a little bit more active on Instagram. Uh but my handle is uh Ice Alchemist11. 1:06:55 1 hour, 6 minutes, 55 seconds And um yeah, you can find me there. And uh I just want to say thank you to you and all your listeners, man. Uh, like I 1:07:04 1 hour, 7 minutes, 4 seconds I always say, you guys are the frontline troops in this fight. You get the information out, you ask the questions. 1:07:11 1 hour, 7 minutes, 11 seconds Um, so thank you so much for having me on and anytime. Anything you need, man, I'm here. 1:07:17 1 hour, 7 minutes, 17 seconds Absolutely. No, my pleasure. And this is again, I think has been a really, really important conversation today. And I'm I'm happy that we were able to do it, Jeff. So, right on. 1:07:25 1 hour, 7 minutes, 25 seconds Thanks so much, Jeff Nucatelli, right here on UAP. We'll talk again soon, buddy. Thank you. Thanks, man.