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 Well, really happy to have Chris Ramsey join me here on UAP, host of the de debrief podcast from his Area 52
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 channel. Chris, thanks for uh joining me here on UAP. This is great. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, of course. And I'm glad we got to meet up
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 at Contact in the Desert. Uh this the first time we've ever kind of got to say hello to each other and from there this uh this interview kind of spawned. So,
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 I'm glad it worked out that way. Um, actually on that note, just your thoughts since we're a little bit removed from contact in the desert. I know that was my first time there. I
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 think it was your first time there. What were your thoughts coming out of there?
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 It was great. Uh, phenomenal. Nice to meet, you know, some of the community, some of the people I interact with online to, you know, meet them in person
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 was always fun. And then obviously, you know, it was quite a difference. I went to I think December I was at like the uh
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 uh was it the congressional hearing and I was with Jesse Michaels uh and he was just getting bombarded you know and I
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 was kind of a fly on the wall um which wasn't the case of contact um I mean it was the case for Jesse again he was also getting bombarded right but uh I was
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 also you know just a lot of people were really excited about the show and and they're big fans so that was a nice surprise for me uh getting to interact
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 with some of the people that the, you know, the podcast. Um, and being able to see their faces was pretty cool. Yeah.
 Chapter 2: UFO
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 No, same for me. It was really just a cool experience to have that actual human interaction, right, rather than than a keyboard and a screen.
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 Definitely. It was It was really fun.
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 Um, but you know, something that I have always kind of found fascinating about your path and your career is not only
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 are you a great magician, which I saw firsthand, by the way, and I'm still trying to figure out how he did those those tricks at the table that day. Um,
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 but to kind of delve into the UFO topic, what brought you to that? Because, you know, to kind of, I guess, evolve from
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 the magician side of things, which obviously still do, so it's not like you stopped, but also to add the UFO topic under your belt. What kind of brought
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 that about for you? Uh, it was kind of I mean I I think I've always been fascinated with this stuff anyways. Like since I was a kid, I was involved in I
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 mean involved in I I'd follow all the stories that led down, you know, various paranormal paths uh especially around
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 psychic stuff and in aliens. You know, I watched Fire in the Sky when I was 9 years old, which, you know, really got me hooked in the subject because there's
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 a giant disclaimer at the beginning of that movie that says this is based on a true story, you know, and for a nine-year-old, you're having an adult
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 telling you that aliens are real. you kind of take that to the bank, so to speak. And so I was always really interested and and you know, growing up,
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 even I remember when YouTube was coming around, you before I started posting on YouTube, so over a dozen years ago, I
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 was falling down all sorts of rabbit holes with Bill Cooper and Phil Schneider and Bob Lazar and all this. So really heavily interested in the topic.
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 And then a few years ago, a friend of mine, uh, Nelson Dallas, who's a memory champion, had told me about this sort of
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 program that he was involved in where he was being trained to remote view for like some hedge fund for like the stock market or something. And I was like,
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 that's a wild thing to tell me as a magician because I'm a skeptic when it comes to these things. And so, I wanted to learn more. Went down the rabbit
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 hole. Um, yeah, the rest is history. I started uh you know documenting my journey through remote viewing through
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 the gateway process as well the out-of- body stuff and then just ended up creating a whole new channel separate from magic and really immersed myself
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 into this venture um completely almost separating myself from everything else I was doing on YouTube and and solely focused on this.
 Chapter 3: Leap of Faith
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 Yeah, that's so cool, man. I mean, do you feel like it was a leap of faith for you to kind of say, "Geez, I'm going to kind of delve into this." Like it was something that you've been interested
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 in. You kind of like, you know, in your private life, you speak to your friends about it, you find things out on your own time. Was it that kind of leap of faith for you to say, "I'm going to put
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 myself out there." And what did that worry you? Didn't worry me so much in terms of putting myself out there? I um
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 never really I've I mean, I'm a magician, man. Like I've already put myself out there to a lot of the people I know. You know what I mean? like when when you're like, "I'm going to be a
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 magician." People are like, "You might as well tell them you're going to be a pirate." Um, so yeah, that I was never
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 phased by what other people thought. I don't consider this realm to be, you
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 know, of the impossible. So, for me, it's it's not as ridiculous as it may sound to some other people. And if it does sound ridiculous to some people, I
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 just think they're illinformed. Uh, so you know, yeah, it wasn't it wasn't that much of a stretch, but you know, to make
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 the leap from having a cemented career as a magician on YouTube into a completely different topic, yeah, that
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 that did take a bit of a, you know, leap of faith, but I believe in the vision that, you know, I'm creating right now
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 and and I don't see any other way of doing it. So, you know, for me it's it's this way or the highway, I guess. Yeah.
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 Well, I think it's great, man. I know a lot of people agree with me, so keep it up. That's that's uh that's my take on it. Um where do you see, by the way,
 Chapter 4: Magic and UFO
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 there's a lot of stuff you said there with the remote viewing things that I want to touch on that was like, whoa, that's one, two, three, four things that caught my ear. Um but I'm wondering
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 where do you see the parallel for yourself when it comes to your experience with magic and how you perform um maybe even some of the
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 deception that's used during different tricks? Where do you see the off-ramp from the the magic side of things to the
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 UFO topic? Do you see parallels with those two conversations sometimes?
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 Definitely. Yeah, there's multiple associations that one can make through magic and the you know the UFO space.
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 One being obviously, you know, if we're looking at SCOP in terms of SCOP, there's they use the same techniques magicians do, but they use it for
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 nefarious reasons. So, you know, on a spectrum of being fooled, the positive side would look like a magic trick and the negative side would look like a
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 scop, right? So, it's it's kind of the same tactics used for different um goals. Um, so yeah, there's definitely
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 an overlay there. You know, I went to in Washington when I was down there actually, I went to the spy museum and I was there with Jesse and it was
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 interesting because I was walking around and I was like, this is just magic tricks. Like there's so many like whether it's like the things that are hidden in their shoes or in their trench
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 coats or you know there's a a radio that looks like a rock that they're hid like this is all just magic to me. It's all just magic tricks. And if you go to a
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 magic shop or you're familiar with you know how magic tricks work you you'll recognize a lot of these things. And
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 there's even a guy John Maul Hulland in the 50s who was hired by the CIA to
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 teach them about misdirection and ledger domain and slight of hand and and so he wrote a manual for the CIA back in the
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 50s uh on how to sort of, you know, hide something that they might need to hide if they were undercover or that type of
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 thing. So there's always been a connection there, I think. And I and I'm still I'm actually aware of certain magicians who've consulted for, you
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 know, these threeletter agencies. And I think um if I'm not mistaken, I think Apollo Robbins, who's like the world's best pickpocket, was often used as in a
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 consulting role. I think that's um but naturally that you know they would do
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 that. They would hire people who've studied misdirection and showmanship and suggestion and all these things very intensely. Like I mean they have a big
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 budget. They're going to use it for you know their own personal gain. So yeah naturally they would turn to you know um
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 magicians to want to learn stuff. So it's it's no surprise that there is an overlap there. I will be you know that's
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 I mean I think it's quite obvious. Um, and in terms of everything else here, here here's the other connection that I
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 made with magic is that during magic performances, magicians will will often tell you if
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 you ask them uh to to let you in, like ask them if they've ever performed a miracle, and every magician will have a
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 story for you, at least one, but they'll probably have plenty. And the stories are usually pretty wild. Like, they're like astronomical in terms of odds.
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 something just worked out. Two people had the same birthday and then this happened and then he named the card that she had. And these little tiny miracles
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 tend to happen quite a bit. And it's interesting because Russell Tar who you know famously started Stargate and the
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 whole SRRI Stanford Research Institute looking into remote viewing. Well, he started his interest in sigh ability due to the fact that he was a sage magician.
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 So he would do things on stage and quickly realized that there was sort of this psychic event happening sometimes
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 and that triggered his curiosity enough to want to go into sigh research and so yeah there is that as well there is that
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 overlap. So there's a lot of things that you can connect magic to but I think just like many other art forms you'll find that they're present in the things
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 that you're passionate about. You'll just kind of pick up on that. But yeah, magic specifically I think is um is inherently linked to a lot of the things
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 that you know that are secret. You know, magicians, that's their commodity is is secrecy. So, uh three-letter agencies, I
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 would say the same. Yeah, it's fascinating. I mean, there are definitely a lot of parallels there for sure. It's pretty cool to hear how you
 Chapter 5: Deception
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 see those connections. And speaking of the SCOP and kind of the, you know, I guess deception part of things,
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 something that happened recently from the Wall Street Journal, a lot of people have kind of used those words, deception, scop from the article that came out with the Wall Street, from the
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 Wall Street Journal recently, basically saying that everything you've ever seen with UFOs is a lie. It's all been drummed up by the government to distract
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 from different top secret programs. Now, while some of that might be the case, and I'll admit that maybe that is
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 sometimes the case, they're basically saying, "That's it. That's the case." What was your reaction when you heard about that article just a few days ago?
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 I mean, yeah, let me let me go ahead and ignore every experiencer ever. Like, it doesn't matter. I I you know, it's no
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 surprise. I think anybody surprised by this is, you know, fooling themselves because this has happened time and time and again. This this isn't the first
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 time this has happened. You know, this is this is a a repeatable offense by Legacy Media. They they they keep doing this. So, I you know, I don't waste my
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 time on it. I don't really care. I don't think that they have a valuable opinion on the matter. I I don't think anything
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 they have to say is pertinent to the conversation, put it that way. And I don't think they ever have, you know.
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 So, when we talk about quote unquote disclosure and all this stuff, I I check out when it comes to, you know, I I'll
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 admit admittedly, you know, sometimes I'll I'll read an article or a newspaper and get excited or hear about, you know, this hearing that's happening and and
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 and this type of thing, but then I I kind of shake my head and I go, "No, hold on a second. There's there's so much more to this topic that doesn't
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 revolve around, you know, all of the government players and and the contractors and the and the media.
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 There's so much more in in this topic that's filled to the brim with interesting facts and actual, you know,
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 evidence, whether anecdotal or, you know, physical from the things that have happened to people. Um, you know, all all sorts of things that you can take um
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 literally. So I yeah when I when I see articles like this I just I don't care.
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 I I think what it does is you know when people focus on things like this or even
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 individuals in the space you know we hear these stories of somebody saying one thing and then been proven wrong or
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 you know people get so caught up on the minutia of this stuff that you forget what it is we're after. like, yeah, this
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 shouldn't matter, right? Take this as a piece of information. Take everything they've written down, absorb it, read
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 it, catalog it, and move on. Don't hinge your belief system on a newspaper article. And don't hinge your belief
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 system on a whistleblower or an experiencer, you know, or anything. Just take the information in, catalog it,
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 move on. And it it tends to become tribal, right? You may think I'm wrong in saying that, especially when it comes to social media. Like the UFO community,
 Chapter 6: Tribalism
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 from what I've noticed anyway, seems to be tribal in some cases where it's like, well, I'm on this guy's team, on that that guy's team, I believe her, I don't
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 believe him, you know, he's this, he's that, she's that. Do you see that same thing sometimes? Yeah. I mean, that's just belief systems in general, you
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 know? So, anytime you believe something, you're automatically put into a category. So, you know, whether it's I believe so and so or I don't believe so
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 and so or I believe what he said or I believe what she saw or I believe you know what's going on here. I believe this is the answer like those are all
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 groups that you put yourself in and once you start believing or not believing you just end up defending your resolve and I think that can be to your own detriment.
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 I think you know this top a topic so vast and incredible and fantastical I
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 think deserves pause a little bit. I think we should take a step back and stop you know jumping to conclusions and
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 just absorbing information and maybe resign to the idea that in this lifetime we might not have all the answers and that's okay. we can just keep seeking,
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 you know, um this information out and and keep accumulating it and hopefully come to some type of sound hypothesis.
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 Uh but we don't have to say I believe something. We could say, hey, that sounds true or that rings true for me or
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 I'm, you know, my conviction is low to to middle on this. And that's okay, right? to say I believe and putting all
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 your, you know, all your eggs in one basket. I think I think that's a mistake. Yeah, I I think that's fair.
 Chapter 7: Wall Street Journal Article
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 Um, on the Wall Street Journal thing real quick, I'm just wondering, do you think that comes out because and like you said, this these things have
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 happened since the retraction from Roswell where they said it was a weather balloon. I mean, this has been going on for 80 years. But this specific one, do
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 you think that article comes out that and it gets pushed, by the way, it gets pushed by the mass media, by the mainstream media as, "Oh, wow, look at
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 this bombshell article from the Wall Street Journal." So, they had, it seemed to me anyway, kind of like their their cronies, so to speak, in their mainstream media friends to push that
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 narrative. Do you think that happens, Chris, because some of us are over the target with a lot of these conversations, so they felt like they need to fire back a little bit or is it
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 just they did it and this was the time they did it? Yeah, your guess as good as mine. Sounds true. You know, sounds like
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 I I wouldn't put it past them, you know, if that's the I think you you know, you look at these agencies, we all know what they're capable of and so it's no
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 surprise really. Yeah. You know, I' I'd be surprised if they leaned into it more rather than leaned against it. You know, it makes it actually makes more sense to
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 me that they would do this than like something like the 2017, you know, New York Times article. Right.
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 Right. This this makes way more sense for legacy media. I'm way less suspicious of legacy media now than with that 2017 article. Yeah. This this fits
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 their mold more for sure. Yeah. when the government starts leaning into no we have you know here's like that's where I'm like well hold on a second same guys
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 who've been bullshitting us for you know decades. So I, you know, when I see this, I go, "Yeah, okay, cool, I guess."
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 But I'm, it's not going to deter me. Um, it might give some,
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 I guess, skeptics or otherwise people who were on the fence, it it might, you
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 know, give them a little bit of fodder in terms of disbelief, which is fine and that's cool. But again, if you're
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 hinging your own personal view and ontology on a news article, I think that's a mistake anyways. So, if this is
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 the drop that overflowed the bucket for you in terms of being, you know, one way or the other, then I think you probably
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 got bigger problems. Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, there's so much out there that can be pointed to or spoken about.
 Chapter 8: Remote Viewing
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 One of which is remote viewing. And you mentioned it a couple of times and this is a subject that has fascinated me for a long time. Actually, it's a subject
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 that got me in to euphology to begin with when I was around like 20 or something. I heard about Edgar Casey and from there it was just all in learning
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 about this stuff. So, when it comes to the remote viewing portion, guys like uh Joe McMongle, you know, when he's remote viewing for the CIA, what is your big
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 takeaway when we talk about remote viewing, whether it's Joe McMongle where he says he saw a civilization on Mars a million years ago or it's
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 something, you know, where he's seen people on a Russian submarine in the case of uh uh Red October, you know,
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 they made the movie about it. I mean, what is what can we take away because it's so fantastical remote viewing? What can people take away from that who just
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 aren't used to the idea of something like that being true? Yeah. Um, there's a lot of there's a lot of data. So, you
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 know, anybody who doesn't want to acknowledge the data, I mean, that's totally up to you, but you
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 can't you can't say something doesn't exist if there's data on it existing,
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 you know? So, um, from Dr. Edwin May, the chief research physicist at SRRI during Stargate, you know, he's he's got
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 30 years of data on six people. Um, and it points to this being a thing. There's
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 so much other data that exists on remote viewing that's available publicly that's not hidden at all. And you don't have to go to a CIA website. like it's there are
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 books published on this stuff that shows there is a significant um phenomenon here like there there's
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 some there's an effect happening and it stands way above the targeted p value
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 system that is required for this stuff to be acknowledged and so it's constant goalpost shifting when it comes to you
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 know parasychology we're aware of that um but I've you know I again I don't hinge
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 any of my belief systems on things that I've read or or stories that I've been told. I try it for myself and that's
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 something I did for a year. Um, and I was I showed myself that it was possible. You know, I'm not by any means
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 a gifted individual when it comes to this stuff, but it was enough to tell me that there is something here. That's interesting. Yeah. What what kind of
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 experience did did you have? I mean, I I documented the entire thing. Um it's I I
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 you know we had a target in an envelope that I was blind to and I would describe the target that was in the envelope the
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 image and then draw and many times it would be very close and you know I could have drawn a bumblebee or a bicycle you
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 know and it happened to be the exact same thing. So, not only, you know, it could have been a place, a person or or
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 uh I don't know, a mountain or or a house or a, you know, a blue lollipop or anything. And so, when you get hits that
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 are like, "Oh, this is a volcano and this is a volcano." And then I'm describing like sulfurous smells and like heat and like all these things,
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 then it's a volcano. And I've drawn that. It's kind of you're kind of like, whoa, there's that's incredible. and you you don't necessarily believe it at first and then you do it over and over
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 and over and you keep getting similar sort of results. Now, again, I'm not by any means like a really gifted
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 individual when it comes to stuff, but I've seen other people do really well on it as well. And then, as you mentioned, Joe McMongle, you know, he was remote viewer number 001.
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 Uh early on he was tasked with uh few targets to determine his talent in
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 remote viewing and he had five first place targets out of six which is the highest score anyone's ever scored for
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 one of these tests. And basically a first place so a fourth place there's four places. A fourth place is if the
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 target is a bumblebee and I draw a paper plate, right? Completely off. A third place is if it's a bumblebee and I draw
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 something that's yellow and black and maybe fuzzy. Okay, but it's just a ball and I say I don't really say it's a life
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 form. So that's a third place. Second place is if I drew like a wasp. Okay.
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 Right. And a first place is if I drew a bumblebee. Yeah. And so he had five first place matches out of six. Wow. And
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 those are um test conditions. In fact, um Dr. Edward May was tasked to put
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 together a scientific oversight committee that had to come up with the tests to make sure that they were lab,
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 you know, approved. And so he had like a dozen of the who's who in psychology and
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 science and physics of the United States put together these tests including uh Nobel Prize winners, right? You know, uh
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 Dr. Schwarz who uh discovered I think it was like the particle beam like and and um I mean so many so many other people
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 including parasychologists but also just regular psychologists. And so there was an incredible amount of rigor when it came to these tests. And they did this
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 for 20 years. And every single year, Joe McMonagle had to go in front of an oversight committee himself at like a
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 congressional oversight to approve the budget. So he had to perform in a skiff.
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 He had to do remote viewings for these individuals uh from Congress so that they approved the budget for the next
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 year. And time and time again, he was able to do that. Right. So you don't approve something if it doesn't work.
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 And you know on top of that they had 505 missions over 20 years. So 505
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 individual missions. 17 out of the 19 intelligence agencies were involved in these missions including I think the joint task force the joint task force
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 142 times they came back to use remote viewings and a lot of that was to intercept like drug boats on the coast.
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 And so, you know, you look at these numbers, the data is out there. They obviously still do this. This isn't right. You know, they they did it before
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 Stargate. They had Sun Streak, Centerlane, um you know, a whole bunch of other ones. And they closed those down when people found out about them and opened
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 up a new one. And that's exactly what they did in 1996. And they still, you know, said, "Oh, it didn't work. It didn't work." And then 2017 when they
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 declassified a whole bunch of stuff, you can see that a lot of them did work. And they did use a lot of that stuff to find hostages to um it was Joe McMonle who
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 found uh was it General Doer in Italy who was kidnapped and they used him and other intel but they did use the remote
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 viewing intel and it was valuable and it did help them find you know this this general who is behind enemy lines. like
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 I mean there's so many cases but again if you're inclined to not wanting to to
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 look into it that that that's on you but the information is out there I've studied it intensely and um you know to
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 me it's just a matter of fact now that there is something there now what it is how it works what what's the
 24:32
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 mechanism behind it how accurate is it like all of these things are questions that are still up in the air and that a lot of these people are stilling But um
 24:40
 24 minutes, 40 seconds
 for me, I know it to be real. I don't have to believe in it anymore or not believe in it. I've seen it. I've tried it. Um and there is data out there to
 24:49
 24 minutes, 49 seconds
 back up what I'm saying. So, you know, and and you know, speak of the Wall Street Journal, they also wrote an article about how remote viewing wasn't
 24:58
 24 minutes, 58 seconds
 real, you know, and you're like, well, then your government's spending money on just a bunch of stuff that isn't real constantly. Like, that's kind of wild,
 25:05
 25 minutes, 5 seconds
 too. That's a big story as well. Yeah, that's fair enough. And I was going to ask you actually, you touched on it. How do you think this happens? And again,
 Chapter 9: How Does It Happen
 25:13
 25 minutes, 13 seconds
 that's a farreaching answer and probably something that can be studied for the next 20 years on its own, but just your best guess and how you can encapsulate that. How does something as fantastical
 25:22
 25 minutes, 22 seconds
 as remote viewing, how is it real? How are people able to tap into whatever they're tapping into to be able to see something past, present, or future?
 25:31
 25 minutes, 31 seconds
 Someone is held hostage somewhere across the world and they're able to see it and describe it. How how is that possible for people who just can't wrap their heads around it? Yeah. Um they're still
 25:40
 25 minutes, 40 seconds
 trying to figure that out. There's a lot of theories out there. I know that Halputoff has theories about microtubules in the brain that sort of
 25:47
 25 minutes, 47 seconds
 interface with this quantum field uh that that that's all sort of omnipresent and that these microtubules will sort of like collect information from a quantum
 25:56
 25 minutes, 56 seconds
 realm which isn't beholden to time and space. Uh gets extremely complicated and way over my pay grade to be honest. But
 26:04
 26 minutes, 4 seconds
 one thing that um Dr. May has found as well in when they tested out people for the army, the army was like we need to
 26:12
 26 minutes, 12 seconds
 recruit people, we need to come up with a system uh on how to train them in remote viewing. Ingo Swan came up with
 26:19
 26 minutes, 19 seconds
 CRV uh controlled remote viewing. And out of 600 people, 1% of them showed a
 26:27
 26 minutes, 27 seconds
 significant talent, right? So six people and that doesn't seem like much but that's a pretty big number when you think about it on a larger scale and
 26:34
 26 minutes, 34 seconds
 these people were people from all walks of life. You had mental level geniuses, you had alumni, uh Stanford alumni, you had intelligence people and you had
 26:42
 26 minutes, 42 seconds
 regular folk army guys and all these people were tested. 1% of them showed significant talent. Turns out after
 26:51
 26 minutes, 51 seconds
 having tested all of them and after having done all of these things, turns out by coincidence I guess every single
 27:00
 27 minutes
 person that showed significant talent was also uh also had sesthesia.
 27:06
 27 minutes, 6 seconds
 And so that's something they didn't expect. They were like, "Oh, so seeing sounds and hearing colors and all these,
 27:14
 27 minutes, 14 seconds
 you know, sort of variations of your senses apparently, wow, is an indicator at least or maybe a facilitator of this event." And so
 27:23
 27 minutes, 23 seconds
 that's something new that they were looking into. And you know, they even they even did tests in submarines to see if it was a frequency because they were
 27:30
 27 minutes, 30 seconds
 like, "Oh, maybe it's like a radio signal," which is what I thought at first. And they're like, "No, we did it in a submarine where absolutely no
 27:36
 27 minutes, 36 seconds
 frequency can reach." And significant results were still, you know, shown
 27:44
 27 minutes, 44 seconds
 uh even better results because they were so isolated, right? Yeah. And so now this is where it gets into this quantum space. They also did tests with um
 27:53
 27 minutes, 53 seconds
 apparently uh entropy in some level makes this more possible. So they would
 28:00
 28 minutes
 go to so they had they had the target go to a site and and you know the remote viewer and the tasker the task was to
 28:07
 28 minutes, 7 seconds
 remote view where the target was. He was somewhere in the world. They would get more accurate descriptions of where the
 28:14
 28 minutes, 14 seconds
 target was when they poured liquid nitrogen at the site. Wow. So when the site had more entropy
 28:24
 28 minutes, 24 seconds
 um almost as if the mind or consciousness or whatever that is is able to recognize change much like we
 28:31
 28 minutes, 31 seconds
 recognize change you know like if you were to think of the Gansfeld effect and you put these ping pong balls on your eyes and you listen to this frequency
 28:39
 28 minutes, 39 seconds
 after a while you know you won't see the red light anymore you won't hear the sounds anymore because our our minds are kind of hardwired to detect change.
 28:47
 28 minutes, 47 seconds
 Yeah. And so almost as if like a moth to a flame, we detect the most entropic event when it comes to remote viewing.
 28:55
 28 minutes, 55 seconds
 And that also happened quite a bit with remote viewers where they were given one target and they were like, "No, no, hold on. There's something else here and something bigger, more eventful was
 29:04
 29 minutes, 4 seconds
 actually drawing them towards it." So yeah, a lot of really interesting studies that have come out um on remote viewing. what it is exactly, I couldn't
 29:13
 29 minutes, 13 seconds
 tell you, but I I, you know, I'm fascinated by all all the work that is being done in that, you know, space. Yeah, you and me both. That's awesome.
 Chapter 10: Near Death Experience
 29:21
 29 minutes, 21 seconds
 Um, last thing on that, because again, there's still so much that I have here for you. Um, do you think near-death experience has something to do with that
 29:30
 29 minutes, 30 seconds
 as far as heightening the senses, heightening the awareness or the ability for it? And the reason I ask that is because Joe McMongle, who we're talking about, is maybe the best remote viewer
 29:38
 29 minutes, 38 seconds
 of all time or most consequential anyway. um he had a near-death experience and he describes
 29:46
 29 minutes, 46 seconds
 really that ability kind of starting after that near-death experience. So, do you think that's circumstantial? Is it
 29:54
 29 minutes, 54 seconds
 is it unique to the viewer or is there something deeper there? Yeah, he would say it's unrelated. Um I asked Joe about
 30:01
 30 minutes, 1 second
 that. He doesn't believe the two are related. You can speak to him. That's right. because a lot of people make that connection
 30:08
 30 minutes, 8 seconds
 uh of you know having some type of NDE unlocking or sort of maybe perhaps thinning the veil between this world and
 30:17
 30 minutes, 17 seconds
 the next and it seems well he he says it's unrelated he he says that it's more
 30:25
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 likely caused by instinct and so when he was younger uh even in his book he talks about this
 30:32
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 he would had to defend and his sister, you know, from like an abusive uh I think father. Uh and and so that triggered a survival mechanism in him.
 30:45
 30 minutes, 45 seconds
 And so he really really believes in in this aspect of remote viewing being linked to survival. If you go back to,
 30:54
 30 minutes, 54 seconds
 you know, way back in in the day when people had shamans and and this type of stuff, like the the most the person with
 31:01
 31 minutes, 1 second
 the most reverence in a village wouldn't be the strongest person. They would be the most psychic, right? And and people would bring them gifts because they would, you know, give them information
 31:09
 31 minutes, 9 seconds
 that was valuable to them. And whether that's knowing where the water was through using witching rods or where not
 31:16
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 to hunt because of predators. And so yeah, he he chocked it up to instinct like this is in everyone. And so when
 31:25
 31 minutes, 25 seconds
 you when you hear about NDEs and how they sort of unlock or thin this veil, you can also make the case for any
 31:33
 31 minutes, 33 seconds
 traumatic event. So not just uh near death, but almost um yeah, almost like
 31:40
 31 minutes, 40 seconds
 it shocks you into needing it to survive.
 31:44
 31 minutes, 44 seconds
 And so that could you you you hear about these type of precognitive events in
 31:51
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 situations where people's life is in jeopardy but not necessarily experiencing death.
 32:00
 32 minutes
 So if they're being attacked Yeah. You know I spoke to George St. Pierre who's an MMA fighter. He also says that during these fights he would it's almost as if
 32:08
 32 minutes, 8 seconds
 he knows exactly what his opponent's going to do sometimes. And so under this like stress inoculation and this survival mechanism and this adrenaline,
 32:17
 32 minutes, 17 seconds
 he's able to perceive things before they happen. Now his question is, is it deduction or is it precognitive, you know, and it it's it's so close that
 32:26
 32 minutes, 26 seconds
 it's really hard to tell, but that's um that seems to be what Joe is also alluding to. Yeah, it's really interesting and it would help explain
 32:34
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 some of uh GSP's wins. I mean, the guy was an incredible fighter and maybe even someone like Muhammad Ali. I mean, when you watch those clips of him just
 32:41
 32 minutes, 41 seconds
 dodging punches. Yeah. They're in the zone. There's like it's it's like they're aware of something that no one else is. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting. Um, on that note of like
 32:50
 32 minutes, 50 seconds
 people you've had on your show, is there someone in the back of your head?
 32:52
 32 minutes, 52 seconds
 Because we all have somebody that we're like, man, I really wish I could talk to that person. And maybe it's more than one and you've spoken to a lot of people, but is there still someone in
 33:01
 33 minutes, 1 second
 the back of your head that you're like, really want to talk to this guy? I really want to talk to this girl because I just have so many questions for them and it just hasn't happened yet. Yeah. I
 33:09
 33 minutes, 9 seconds
 mean, I would love to talk to Travis Walton. I think, you know, again mentioning at the top of the episode, that was the movie that got me into this stuff, you know. So, I think it would be
 33:17
 33 minutes, 17 seconds
 a full circle moment definitely to speak with Travis. Uh, Linda Molton How I think is another one. I think she is incredible. I think she's done so much.
 33:26
 33 minutes, 26 seconds
 She's just such a fearless fighter in this, you know, and and say what you will about her opinions or what she
 33:35
 33 minutes, 35 seconds
 does. I mean, you just can't deny the fact that she commands just respect. She she's been fighting
 33:44
 33 minutes, 44 seconds
 this stuff, you know, for a very very long time and, you know, put herself in really shady positions a lot of times
 33:52
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 and where her life was in danger and and so yeah, I think Linda would probably have the best stories and I'm I'm a
 34:00
 34 minutes
 sucker for good for a good story. So, I think yeah, Linda would be uh would definitely be on the bucket list. No, that's great. If someone came up to you
 Chapter 11: UFOs
 34:08
 34 minutes, 8 seconds
 and they didn't know who you were, whatever, you're at a bar, you're at a restaurant, whatever, and it's just kind of small talk. You're like, "Oh, what do you do?" You started telling about the
 34:16
 34 minutes, 16 seconds
 magic side, UFO podcast side, things like that. And they said to you, you know, that UFO stuff, I don't really know what to make of it. You know, I
 34:24
 34 minutes, 24 seconds
 hear about it. I see some of the videos, but I think it's kind of silly. What would you point them to? person story,
 34:32
 34 minutes, 32 seconds
 something that you would consider a good piece of evidence that you would say, "All right, that's fair, but just do me
 34:39
 34 minutes, 39 seconds
 a favor and check out this person's story or or this particular piece and see if it changes your mind." Yeah. I think Moment of Contact for me. Okay.
 34:49
 34 minutes, 49 seconds
 From James Fox. Yeah. I think I think that's one of those cases that's just like, dude, there's so much human testimony.
 34:59
 34 minutes, 59 seconds
 Um, also, you know, another one is in Rua, Zimbabwe. You know, the kids at Ariel School. Yep. They're children, you
 35:08
 35 minutes, 8 seconds
 know. Now, that one might be a little more difficult for people to get behind because not knowing the situation, it
 35:17
 35 minutes, 17 seconds
 might feel like some of these kids are being coerced, which they weren't. But not knowing the situation, I do understand how people can be like, "Oh, they're just kids. They don't know what
 35:24
 35 minutes, 24 seconds
 they're talking about." Which is why, you know, it brings me to moment of contact because I think uh I think that one for me was just like so so many
 35:33
 35 minutes, 33 seconds
 people who don't know each other are all talking about the same thing. They weren't in one place. This was all
 35:39
 35 minutes, 39 seconds
 around Virginia. And so, you know, that and and and you know, I hear a little birdie tells me that James has a lot of
 35:47
 35 minutes, 47 seconds
 news on on a follow-up to that. So, that's that'll be really interesting as well. Was that little birdie named uh
 35:54
 35 minutes, 54 seconds
 say it rhymes with Hannes box? That's correct. Yeah, one and the same. I had a feeling. No,
 36:02
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 that's awesome. Um because both of those stories I'm with you are just two of those. What about you? What's yours? I mean, those are great. Um Ariel School definitely is is absolutely one of them.
 Chapter 12: Joe McMonicle
 36:13
 36 minutes, 13 seconds
 I think one of the ones that I come back to a lot is really kind of like the the Joe McMonicle stuff. I hate to bring up
 36:21
 36 minutes, 21 seconds
 something that we were just talking about, but that's somebody that is just so fascinating to me. And that's actually somebody that I would like to talk to that I haven't spoken to. Um,
 36:29
 36 minutes, 29 seconds
 because you talk about a guy that was an asset to the federal government and to the to the agencies and to the, you know, the intelligence agencies and they
 36:37
 36 minutes, 37 seconds
 used him for a reason, not because they didn't believe it, because what he was doing actually worked. Mhm. And if what he's saying about, you know, bases
 36:45
 36 minutes, 45 seconds
 inside mountains and seeing different beings inside mountains in Africa, Pat Price as well, right? Yes. So, I mean,
 36:52
 36 minutes, 52 seconds
 we put those together and then, of course, you know, saying that there was a civilization on Mars a million years ago, it's like, well, could he be right about one but not the other? I guess,
 37:02
 37 minutes, 2 seconds
 but it's got to give you a pause. It makes you think like there's something maybe something there. It's definitely a good point. But even Joe doesn't like
 37:10
 37 minutes, 10 seconds
 unverifiable targets. Well, he says he doesn't like them, but he also, you know, talks about them a lot. But, uh, you know, he he he'll be the first to say like, "Yeah, I don't know. I won't
 37:18
 37 minutes, 18 seconds
 hang my hat on it because I can't verify it." You know, and that's one thing that he always found frustrating, but the things that, like you said, the things that he could verify turned out to be
 37:26
 37 minutes, 26 seconds
 true. So, makes you wonder. It sure does. That's That's for sure. Do you think there's kind of like on a
 37:33
 37 minutes, 33 seconds
 different note here, Chris? I'm I'm starting to hear more stories about poltergeist activity when it comes to
 37:42
 37 minutes, 42 seconds
 the alien phenomena like actual um close encounter experiencers like you know Whitley Streber type of person where
 37:50
 37 minutes, 50 seconds
 they're experiencing these entities one-on-one. I'm hearing more about things floating in the air. I'm hearing more about knocks on the door. I'm hearing more about scratches. These are
 37:59
 37 minutes, 59 seconds
 normally things that you would hear about. I mean, I I hate to say, but these are normally things you hear more about with like demonic activity. Sure.
 38:06
 38 minutes, 6 seconds
 Is there something connected here, do you think? Or is it two different things that people are mistaking for the alien
 38:14
 38 minutes, 14 seconds
 encounter experience? Yeah. As far as I'm concerned, why can't it be one and the same? Or maybe it's two different things. Like both answers, I think, are
 38:22
 38 minutes, 22 seconds
 valid. I think all answers are valid until, you know, until they're taken off the table. Um, Jacqu Valet has loads and
 38:31
 38 minutes, 31 seconds
 loads of thoughts on how these old stories of, you know, the fairy people and all sorts of things also tie into
 38:38
 38 minutes, 38 seconds
 this. And then you look at Diana Pulka, you know, a lot of work on how ancient, you know, how people used to look up to angels and the way that we look up to
 38:47
 38 minutes, 47 seconds
 UFOs and the connections there. So there's definitely some overlap and you hear about stories from Skinwalker Ranch
 38:55
 38 minutes, 55 seconds
 about, you know, this hitchhiker effect and these poltergeist things happening after people leave the ranch. So yeah, why couldn't they be connected? For
 39:03
 39 minutes, 3 seconds
 sure. And you know, if you're thinking, there's a lot of people out there that are like, "Are you crazy? It's just angels and devils and that's the whole
 39:10
 39 minutes, 10 seconds
 thing, right?" And okay, well, uh, where do the devils come from? Right? And they'll say, "Well, hell." Okay. Where is hell? It's not in the ground. Right.
 39:21
 39 minutes, 21 seconds
 Right. So, where is it? It's another dimension. Yeah. Okay. So, what are we talking about here? We're talking about interdimensional beings. Yeah. Right.
 39:29
 39 minutes, 29 seconds
 That are using portals, right? I guess to interface with our reality in some way. So, I, you know, I think we're talking about the same thing. I think
 39:37
 39 minutes, 37 seconds
 the verbiage might be different. And you know, one says devil or demon and another says alien or interdimensional
 39:45
 39 minutes, 45 seconds
 being or ultraterrestrial or what have you or intraterrestrial or tempestrial or whatever you want to call it. You know, I just call it aliens because it's
 39:53
 39 minutes, 53 seconds
 a lot easier. But um but yeah, I think why why can't they be the same? Now,
 40:01
 40 minutes, 1 second
 is there something to the idea of demons and angels? I would at first be really
 40:07
 40 minutes, 7 seconds
 reluctant to think that. But, you know, the more that I look into it, the more you hear about stories of Jacqu Valet,
 40:15
 40 minutes, 15 seconds
 you know, kind of subtly hinting that that is the phenomenon. And then you and then you read books like Strange Angel, uh, you know, the story of Jack Parsons
 40:24
 40 minutes, 24 seconds
 who, you know, ended up building rockets but also sort of trying to summon demons
 40:31
 40 minutes, 31 seconds
 at the same time, you know, and and then you hear about the rituals that are still going on at NASA.
 40:36
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 And so, you know, it makes you wonder, is there something there? Is it superstition? Is it all the same thing? Is it different things? I don't know.
 Chapter 13: Spirituality
 40:45
 40 minutes, 45 seconds
 Man, it's it's a weird question, though, right? Because when you start to think about even going back to biblical history, right? A lot of people talk about Ezekiel and, you know, the wheel
 40:53
 40 minutes, 53 seconds
 that or the chariot of fire and all these different things and you kind of start to make that leap a little bit to think, well, could it have been some of
 41:02
 41 minutes, 2 seconds
 the same stuff, but they just didn't know how to talk about it, you know, and you start to talk about the the giants during the time of Noah. And there's
 41:09
 41 minutes, 9 seconds
 just so much that it's like, how do you add it all up? And that's why I I personally always feel like the spirituality question has to kind of
 41:17
 41 minutes, 17 seconds
 play a part in this because I feel like it's almost like one of those cogs that there's it's it's one of the missing pieces that might be able to connect
 41:25
 41 minutes, 25 seconds
 some of this stuff. Do you think I'm off on that? I don't know. You know, it could be. It seems it's it definitely seems like, you know, intention drives a
 41:33
 41 minutes, 33 seconds
 lot of this phenomenon, whether it's visitations or, you know, orbs or whatever it is. It seems like there is
 41:41
 41 minutes, 41 seconds
 some type of interface there. Call it spirituality, you know, call it whatever you like. Quantum physics, who knows?
 41:48
 41 minutes, 48 seconds
 It's uh it's hard to categorize something that's so ephemeral and
 41:56
 41 minutes, 56 seconds
 nebulous. Like, it's just really hard to pin it down to one thing when in reality it's probably a lot of things. It's
 42:04
 42 minutes, 4 seconds
 probably everything. That's, you know, the more that I look into this, you're like, if you can, if we're talking
 42:10
 42 minutes, 10 seconds
 about, it's either just us or it's everything. Like, in my head, it's not us and one other thing. You know, if
 42:18
 42 minutes, 18 seconds
 it's one other thing, then it's another thing and another thing, and it just keeps going. Like if something in the billions of years that this planet's
 42:25
 42 minutes, 25 seconds
 been around came here other than us or made us or whatever that is, some other intelligence, then I would have to assume that there is probably another
 42:33
 42 minutes, 33 seconds
 one and another one. And it goes on. I I I I'm not going to I'm not going to think it's either us or us and them and
 42:41
 42 minutes, 41 seconds
 that's it. Like I think there's probably more to it than that. Uh and and then everything in between, you know, us and
 42:48
 42 minutes, 48 seconds
 them, whatever that is. So, you know, um yeah, I don't know. Is spirituality the key?
 42:55
 42 minutes, 55 seconds
 It seems like it seems like intent is the key to some of this phenomenon, but
 43:03
 43 minutes, 3 seconds
 I I don't know to what extent. I really don't know. And and I'd be reluctant to say, you know, if someone says, "Oh,
 43:12
 43 minutes, 12 seconds
 it's all this or whatever, but then there's the afterlife." And then but I'm like who maybe the afterlife is controlled by them too.
 43:21
 43 minutes, 21 seconds
 That's a dark thought. That's a weird thought. Yeah. That that you know we go to the light and it's it's just part of
 43:28
 43 minutes, 28 seconds
 their plan and they're also controlling that like you know. So I'm I'm reluctant to believe anything and and I I just uh
 43:36
 43 minutes, 36 seconds
 yeah I don't know. We're going to find out eventually. I won't be able to report back. Maybe but I'll try. No.
 43:43
 43 minutes, 43 seconds
 Come on, man. Listen. I want to promise right now that the spirit of Chris Ramsay comes on UAP to answer some damn questions here.
 43:51
 43 minutes, 51 seconds
 Houdini Houdini made that promise to his wife when he died. Yeah. He was debunking a lot of mediums um before his
 43:58
 43 minutes, 58 seconds
 death and told his wife that, you know, she should continue to do that and and
 44:05
 44 minutes, 5 seconds
 get rid of these charlatans and that um he would come back through these mediums and give her a specific word or sentence
 44:15
 44 minutes, 15 seconds
 and until she hears that word or sentence, they're frauds and she never heard it. Wow, that's interesting. Matt Houdini is a fascinating character in
 Chapter 14: Ancient Technology
 44:24
 44 minutes, 24 seconds
 himself. I'm sure you can probably go all day on him. He's he's always kind of really intrigued me over the years. Um, speaking on some of that though, when it
 44:31
 44 minutes, 31 seconds
 comes to maybe some of these lost arts, if you will, and we we hear about, you know, the recently like the lost
 44:40
 44 minutes, 40 seconds
 chambers of the pyramids of Giza that were supposedly found by the Italian scientists and that that that group of scientists there. And we look back, you know, we hear stories about Atlantis.
 44:49
 44 minutes, 49 seconds
 Edgar Casey spoke about Atlantis. Do you think there was some type of ancient technology that's been lost to us and
 44:56
 44 minutes, 56 seconds
 that for for whatever reason some you know was the ancient Egyptian ancient Egyptians or the Atlanteanss or whoever it was had this all cracked or maybe
 45:05
 45 minutes, 5 seconds
 even the Mayans Aztecs somebody had all this stuff the American Indians had this stuff figured out and it's just been lost along the way. Yeah, it definitely
 45:15
 45 minutes, 15 seconds
 seems that way. I think if you look if you look deep enough you can you realize that there it is hard to believe that there are things that we can't explain
 45:24
 45 minutes, 24 seconds
 and you know when you look at the precision you know these bowls or these these vases that they found that are that we couldn't even replicate with modern
 45:32
 45 minutes, 32 seconds
 machinery right you know let alone forget the pyramids dude forget the forget the giant blocks I believe that people can move giant blocks you get
 45:40
 45 minutes, 40 seconds
 enough people together you know if they crack enough whips like that's going to That's just the way it is, right? But
 45:47
 45 minutes, 47 seconds
 when it comes to like this precision stuff, that's where it gets weird. You know, get a thousand people, they can
 45:54
 45 minutes, 54 seconds
 move, they can move a giant stone. I I believe in the power of human beings and and and the power of working together and creating something. But when it
 46:02
 46 minutes, 2 seconds
 comes to like something small like a bore hole or like these these perfect cuts and these perfect like that's where
 46:09
 46 minutes, 9 seconds
 you're like yeah I don't I don't know how they would have had according to what they were supposed to have
 46:16
 46 minutes, 16 seconds
 according to modern archaeologists you know they they wouldn't have had that capacity that ability to make those things so where does that leave you it
 46:24
 46 minutes, 24 seconds
 leads you now you got to be careful with this because as a magician
 46:31
 46 minutes, 31 seconds
 If I show you a trick, I am forcing you to unwillingly suspend your disbelief through
 46:38
 46 minutes, 38 seconds
 a method that I create. So, I'm going to I'm going to make something happen and I'm going to make it so fooling that you
 46:45
 46 minutes, 45 seconds
 resign your position and you go, I don't know. It's magic. It's impossible. You don't know what to say.
 46:52
 46 minutes, 52 seconds
 That's my job.
 46:54
 46 minutes, 54 seconds
 So when I give pe when I show people a magic trick and then ask them to explain
 47:01
 47 minutes, 1 second
 it, if they can't explain it, the explanations they'll start coming up with start to get more and more ludicrous.
 47:12
 47 minutes, 12 seconds
 Right. Okay. This is connection, right?
 47:15
 47 minutes, 15 seconds
 This is that connection we were talking about earlier. Yeah. And all the while I know how simple it actually is. H and so, you know, they'll be like, "No, you
 47:22
 47 minutes, 22 seconds
 had a system of magnets." And like I'm like, "You don't even know how magnets work. That's not how they work. You can't just levitate random objects with magnets or static electricity, you
 47:30
 47 minutes, 30 seconds
 know." But people go there. And so, you know, sometimes this is what we see when we look at these ancient structures.
 47:35
 47 minutes, 35 seconds
 People because they don't have the answer, they jump to aliens. And I'm not saying it isn't aliens or advanced tech,
 47:45
 47 minutes, 45 seconds
 but I'm saying there is a gap there that we don't understand.
 47:48
 47 minutes, 48 seconds
 And for all we know, the answer once we figure it out might turn out to be simpler than we thought. I think that's
 47:57
 47 minutes, 57 seconds
 a possibility. Yeah. Um but it has eluded us to this day and I think that is, you know, worth questioning it. But
 48:06
 48 minutes, 6 seconds
 yeah, I wouldn't jump straight to any of that stuff. Uh but I wouldn't rule it out either. Yeah, it's I mean, like you
 Chapter 15: Magic Tricks
 48:15
 48 minutes, 15 seconds
 said, we still ask the questions. So, I'm only a few minutes left here, Chris, and I wish we man, I would love to talk to you again in the future. Um, because
 48:23
 48 minutes, 23 seconds
 this is a lot of fun, of course. Um, but going back to contact in in the desert, you talk about doing those tricks and making us uh un unwillfully suspend
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 belief when it comes to the magic tricks. And gosh darn you, you made it happen for me because I'm sitting there
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 and I actually I painted this picture on a previous episode of UAP, but I'd love to do it with you here as well because it's going to lead to a question. I'm sitting there at the table, which was a
 48:49
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 pretty cool moment, by the way, with you and James Fox and Thomas Jane and Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp and uh uh Matt
 48:59
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 um from from the Good Trouble Show. Matt Ford. Matt Ford. Thank you. Yeah, drew a blank there for some reason, who is great, by the way. He and I ended up speaking for like two hours afterward.
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 He's a great guy. Um you would think I wouldn't draw a blank there, but nevertheless. So, we're all sitting there at this table and you pull out
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 your cards and just start doing magic tricks and you do this thing where you you had all of us pick the cards.
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 You put down four kings, right, of each suit, four corners, and we're all picking the card. And you're saying, "Okay, I'm taking this bunch of five to seven cards, whatever it was. Where do
 49:33
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 you want me to put it? Black or red?" And it's up to us. And you're having us choose. And then somehow someway it all
 49:41
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 ends up being in the same color. They're all grouped together. All the hearts, all the D. How?
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 I know you're not going to answer me, but still I'm going to ask how. How does something like that happen? It's crazy to me. Yeah, that's the beauty about,
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 you know, magic is that there there are many things at play during um an effect like that. You know, whether it's slight
 50:02
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 of hand, whether it's showmanship, whether it's, you know, verbal misdirection. There's I mean there's literally so many different
 50:10
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 psychological techniques that are used within one trick and tactile techniques, you know, so it's it's it's a mashup of so many things as is most every trick.
 50:23
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 People often assume, oh, you just did this. And if they only knew how, you know, how much effort goes into a trick,
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 uh, and from all the directions that we hit it, whether it's in the things we say or where we're looking or all this, there's a lot of work that goes into this. Um, yeah, magic isn't as simple as
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 you might think, but it it's also incredibly simple when you break it down. But when you add all the layerings of different techniques and different principles and all these things
 50:48
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 together, it creates a nice perception of an event uh which which you perceive happened a certain way. You know,
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 magicians are masters at engineering memory more than anything. And so even you recounting what happened wasn't what happened. I got it wrong, didn't I?
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 Well, I mean, everybody would. That's that's the whole point of that's the whole point of of magic. You know, we I
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 can I can give you I can tell you to look here and this is very important and then say never mind this over here and then we keep going over here and your
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 brain is going to take those two important things and put them together and it's going to discount the little never mind because it doesn't have room to store all this useless information.
 51:29
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 Well, that never mind might be the secret. And this very important stuff was completely useless and and
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 nonsensical, right? So, you're you're going to tell a story and you're going to omit that little never mind because I told you to never mind it and it doesn't
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 matter, right? And so, your story is not at all what happened, but I was able to engineer that experience and and memory
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 is the only thing that really that really drives our reality, you know. So if you can manipulate memory and it's easier than you think, it happens to
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 experiencers all the time as well. You know, we we talk about I I find there's a significant uh comparison to be made
 52:09
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 between someone who witnessed a magic trick and someone who's seen a UFO.
 52:13
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 They're both impossible. They both defy explanation. And immediately after the memory is different, is altered for a
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 few reasons. one because well maybe the magician altered your memory on purpose but other than that you're trying to
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 convey emotion. You're trying to make the other person feel as if they were there and so you're not giving them just straight facts because that's boring.
 52:36
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 You're rounding off the edges a little bit and you're doing that for another reason as well. You don't want to appear like you're easily fooled. So you're
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 going to make the situation a little bit more impossible as if you double checked everything even though you didn't. And even though you know that even if you did it would have been fine, but you add
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 those little pieces of information in to make it more convincing because again you want them to feel like they were there. Yeah. You know, so it's it's a
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 human flaw and it's not of malicious intent, but it's something that we all do and you know, magicians just happen
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 to take advantage of this during magic performances. It's great stuff, man. Um, you mentioned earlier about the miracles. That's every magician has a
 Chapter 16: Miracles
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 miracle. Now, you told this story, and I don't mind hearing it again because I want you to tell everyone else who hasn't heard this story. You were talking about your miracle. Actually,
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 Dan Clearary, who was also at that table, asked you, "Okay, Chris, what's what's your miracle as a magician?" And it had to do with, I believe, a cell
 53:31
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 phone and a bartender. Yep. And there's many. I I mean, I have a lot of them, and some of them I performed there, you
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 know, I did some of that there. And, uh, the people involved know what I'm talking about, you know, because they they witness it. It's it's it's uh when
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 you leave things up to chance and odds in a certain it seems like in a certain state whether that's this like misplaced
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 confidence and then but also high you know no no no no backup so high stress
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 but also this like flow state. It's like this weird balance of all this. Um these things tend to happen. So I was in
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 Bermuda with some friends. This is a few years ago. And again, this is one example. And I could I could give you a dozen examples. And every magician, by
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 the way, if you ever meet a magician, ask them to tell you about a miracle.
 54:20
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 They will gladly regail you with like the most impossible thing. They're going to chalk it up to chance. I think there's something more at play. But I
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 was uh with some magician friends and and we were shuffling cards and got the attention of this group of people. They came over. They said, "Oh, you're magicians. Can you show something?" Uh I said to this girl, I said, "Yeah, sure.
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 Um hand me your phone. I'm going to try to, you know, open your passcode. And she goes, "Oh my god." Okay. So, she gives me her phone. I put it I place it
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 on the uh on the bar. At this point, I know her passcode. I won't tell you how I know her passcode, but as a as a
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 magician, I know her passcode. Um through some type of method, but the magician in me doesn't just open her
 55:00
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 phone. I want to I want to play I want to play it as a magician. Right?
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 Magician is uh you're you're an actor playing the part of a magician, right?
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 Yeah. And I want to make this experience special. So I'll say I'll say, "Cool. So what we're going to do, and you know,
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 I'll jazz this sometimes. I don't even know where I'm going with this when I when I start with these things, but I'll go, I'm not going to open your phone. He is." And I point to the bartender.
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 Again, misplaced confidence. No business being this confident about this. I know in the back, maybe the back of my mind that if he doesn't open it, I know the passcode. I'll just like I'll, you know,
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 I'll tell it to him in his ear. He can open like So I don't know. I'll figure it out. But I'm really confident that he's going to open the phone. And so I
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 point to him. Now in my head I'm like, I'm going to try and direct him, you know, towards the number somehow with some intention. I don't know. I'll
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 figure it out. So I said, "Go ahead and put four numbers in. It's a fourdigit passcode." I said, "Put four random
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 numbers in." He does this tense situation. Everybody's like, "Oh my god." Phone doesn't open. Release of tension. I'm like, "Of course not. That
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 that would be silly if that worked." you know that that'd be a miracle, right?
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 And then I said, you know what? I think it's more of a personal number. Now, at this point, I know the number. It looks like a birthday, so I assume it's a
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 personal number. You know, when people choose numbers, that isn't a pattern.
 56:20
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 It's usually personal, right? So, it's just kind of a kind of a given. And so, I said, um, I think it's a personal number.
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 And I said to the guy, I said, go ahead and I think I said, put in your your passcode or your birthday. It was one of the other might have been your passcode.
 56:38
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 I said, "Go ahead." No, it was your birthday. I said, "Go ahead and put in your birthday." And he puts in his birthday and the phone opens.
 56:44
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 And this isn't his phone. It was No. And he was just as surprised as everybody else. He was surprised. He was I was more surprised than anybody. Amazing.
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 Cuz they're like, "This is a magician.
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 This is supposed to happen, you know, at some level." I'm like screaming on the inside. I got to say cool. Cool. Yeah.
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 Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, not only did they have the same birthday, that was also his passcode on his phone.
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 He had the same passcode, same birthday, same date to birth, exactly as the other person. Kind of worked out that way. But these things happen over and over and
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 over. And um, yeah, I mean, it's it's just one miracle after another when you put yourself in those positions. And magicians know what I'm talking about.
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 Again, to bring this back to the beginning, it's the reason Russell Tar got into the SC field because he saw this happen over and over again. And so,
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 I'm glad I was glad to find out that I wasn't alone in in observing this.
 Chapter 17: synchronicity
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 That's insane, man. And that one thing I wanted to ask you when you told that story at Contact in the Desert was I can understand, you know, maybe well actually I don't understand, but maybe
 57:46
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 it's something as far as some different ticks or movement towards numbers on the phone that would clue you off to what her code was. But how the hell would you
 57:53
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 know that the bartender has the same birth date? How does that I guess that's the miracle, right? Yeah. I didn't I had no idea. I I pointed to a person. I
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 could have pointed to anyone and that was you know that was the cool part about it. It was just like this weird synchronicity and you know maybe it is a
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 numbers game and the more tricks you perform the more miracles happen but they do seem to happen disproportionately uh a dis in a disproportionate amount of
 58:17
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 times like compared to not happening. So when you take big risks in magic, you tend to get rewarded especially in
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 certain conditions and it just seems it seems that's just seems to be the the way it is. Yeah, that's wild. All right,
 Chapter 18: honesty
 58:32
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 last question and I want you to be honest with me on this. Not that you have been dishonest at any point, but especially on this one. Okay. Okay. I
 58:40
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 mentioned everybody. We were all sitting together at that table of contact in the desert. I mentioned all the names.
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 The documentarian in me wanted to say, "Hey guys, this is a pretty cool moment with like everybody at this table. I
 58:54
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 would love to take a picture and show it to everybody, hey, this is pretty cool.
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 Like, we're all kind of sitting here hanging out." But I didn't do it because I felt like I would have been weird and I would have been that guy. If I had
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 done it, would everybody have looked at me as weird and this guy, he's that guy?
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 No. Oh, see now I regret it. I think it's totally cool. Totally fine, dude. I
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 mean, may maybe somebody I don't know. I wouldn't have found it weird. I think it's fine. Whatever. I I you know, I would have liked to see that picture and
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 that was lost to history. I think I think I think Dan Clearary took a took a photo maybe uh of partial, you know, amount of the group. Yeah. But I mean,
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 yeah, first dude, why not? You live once, man. Like, don't uh don't worry about other people. Don't worry about what they're thinking. If they have a problem with it, they got a problem with
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 their own stuff. It's not It's not your problem. All right. Well, now next year.
 59:50
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 Okay. If we We'll all have to get back together next year and then we'll do it then. You're not going to be like, "Oh, this guy again.
 59:58
 59 minutes, 58 seconds
 This guy out of here." Yeah. What is he doing? He's Oh, he's one of those. Come on, weirdo. You got to check out Chris Ramsey if you haven't already. Check out
 1:00:06
 1 hour, 6 seconds
 Chris Ramsey YouTube channel. I don't have to say. Go ahead. Tell where everybody where they can find you if they haven't. Area 52 on YouTube.
 1:00:12
 1 hour, 12 seconds
 Appreciate it, Stephen. This has been uh really great conversation. I enjoyed meeting you and um yeah, good luck with the podcast, man. Uh I'm a new fan, so
 1:00:22
 1 hour, 22 seconds
 you know, I'd like to I'd like to see you keep going, keep growing, and and keep trying to find those answers, dude.
 1:00:27
 1 hour, 27 seconds
 Yeah, I appreciate it, and thanks for doing this. Uh honestly, just a great time to be able to go back and forth about all this. I really enjoy it. So many different aspects that we can talk
 1:00:35
 1 hour, 35 seconds
 about. So, yeah, hopefully we can do it again in the future. And, you know, thanks again for coming on. Absolutely.
 1:00:40
 1 hour, 40 seconds
 Chris Ramsey, thanks for coming on here to UAP.