0:01 1 second Well, I'm happy to finally do this. Ryan Sprag from Somewhere in the Skies podcast. This is somebody that, you know, we all kind of keep an eye on each 0:08 8 seconds other, I think, in this space, whether it's like Patrick from Vetted or some of the other shows. I've always kept an eye what Ryan has done on his show somewhere 0:16 16 seconds in the skies. And I'm happy to finally be able to bring him on here today to UAP. So, Ryan Sprag, thanks so much for coming on to UAP. This is really cool. 0:23 23 seconds Ah, I'm so excited. Like I said, yeah, we we all kind of listen to each other's shows, see what everyone's talking about. You never want to step on other 0:32 32 seconds people's toes on one week having the same guest and all that. So, yeah, I've enjoyed um all the conversations you've 0:39 39 seconds had on your show and uh No, it's a pleasure and honor to be here. Thank you. 0:43 43 seconds Yeah. No, I appreciate that, man. Thanks very much. And so, now we can finally come together here. I'm glad this this came together. Um there's a lot that we 0:50 50 seconds can talk about. I mean, there's so much and I think one of the cool things about what I'm looking forward to this year today is I want to go over some of the 0:59 59 seconds some of the origin stories, if you will, right? Because there's so many times when it comes to the UFO topic, we're just trying to keep up. I mean, I I 1:07 1 minute, 7 seconds don't know about you, but I wake up some days and I'm like, where do I go? 1:11 1 minute, 11 seconds There's this story, there's that story, there's this story. And it's almost you don't want to feel like you're ignoring things, but you know, you have to kind of hyperfocus on one thing to do your 1:18 1 minute, 18 seconds best on that. And so what I'd like to do is kind of let's look back on some stuff, you know, and on some of these 1:27 1 minute, 27 seconds origin stories and specifically something actually that that actually does kind of connect to one of the main topics right now that's going on in UFO 1:34 1 minute, 34 seconds land is Bob Lazar. Um, you know, speaking of shows that we both uh admire and someone who does it is Chris Ramsey. 1:42 1 minute, 42 seconds Um, I know I'm sure you've spoken to him. I've had him on here a couple of times. Great guy. and he just had on Bob Lazar uh coming off of his S4 1:51 1 minute, 51 seconds documentary. I know that you've done a lot of work on the Area 51 case and how what might have what happens there, what 1:59 1 minute, 59 seconds did happen there. So, just your overall thoughts on Bob Lazar and Area 51, how does it all connect? Is there really a 2:07 2 minutes, 7 seconds lot of truth to that story, do you think? 2:10 2 minutes, 10 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Um, so you know, if if if people are watching this, I actually have the they're here, Bob Lazar poster 2:17 2 minutes, 17 seconds up right now. Um, cuz I've caught the fever, man. I mean, Bob Lazar, he's one of those he's a pop culture icon. I 2:26 2 minutes, 26 seconds mean, he transcends kind of the UFO community. I I remember I lived in New York City for gosh almost 14 15 years 2:35 2 minutes, 35 seconds and one day I'm riding the subway home from work and these two girls sitting behind me. They had to be in their I don't know early 20s maybe and they're talking about Bob Lazar. 2:47 2 minutes, 47 seconds I I think his first Rogan interview had just come out or something. And I took my my AirPods out and I'm like, did I 2:55 2 minutes, 55 seconds just hear Bob Lazar on the train in Queens by like some millennials? What is happening right now, right? 3:04 3 minutes, 4 seconds Um, and that seems to be the enigma of Bob Lazar. It kind of comes back every, 3:10 3 minutes, 10 seconds I don't know, five years or so. Um, and I've had my brushes with Bob Lazar. I remember back in it was either 2012 or 3:20 3 minutes, 20 seconds 2013. I was uh I used to volunteer out at the International UFO Congress out in Arizona. And this is before I was really 3:28 3 minutes, 28 seconds like uh in the UFO community or I hadn't written any books or had a podcast, nothing. And I would just fly there and 3:36 3 minutes, 36 seconds uh you know on my own dime and I would work backstage at the event. I would work audio and put the microphones on all the speakers and level them up. I 3:45 3 minutes, 45 seconds had no idea what I was doing, but I just I wanted to be there. I wanted to be a part of this conversation. And Bob Lazar just so happened to be 3:54 3 minutes, 54 seconds speaking at the Congress at at that year that I was uh backstage and I got to meet him. Uh I'll be 4:01 4 minutes, 1 second briefly, but I got to put the microphone on him, ask him a couple questions, and man, I'll tell you, he was just such a genuine, 4:09 4 minutes, 9 seconds downto-earth guy. He was so nervous to get up there and like talk. And I'm like, "Are you excited?" He's like, "No, I don't know." He's 4:18 4 minutes, 18 seconds like, "Do these people really want to hear from me?" I'm like, "Yeah, man. 4:21 4 minutes, 21 seconds People want to hear from Bob Lazar." 4:22 4 minutes, 22 seconds [laughter] 4:23 4 minutes, 23 seconds And it was awesome. You know, he ran us through everything, you know, the craft and how it worked, the propulsion, blah blah blah blah blah. Um, and that was 4:32 4 minutes, 32 seconds that. But then a couple years later, I I had the opportunity to be a part of a television program uh called Mysteries 4:39 4 minutes, 39 seconds Decoded where they sent us out to investigate Area 51. and it was sort of centered around Bob Lazar. Um I think 4:48 4 minutes, 48 seconds his the documentary with Jeremy Corbella just come out at the time. Storm Area 51 was happening. So again, these things 4:57 4 minutes, 57 seconds just rise from the ashes, it seems. And uh and yeah, I had to dig deep into Bazar for that episode of the television 5:06 5 minutes, 6 seconds show. Spoke to, you know, people who'd seen stuff out there in Nevada. We went to the gates of Area 51. my investigator 5:15 5 minutes, 15 seconds uh co-investigator and I um Jennifer Marshall, she's a former Navy veteran and she's super skeptic, man. Like I was 5:23 5 minutes, 23 seconds the molder, she was the scully. And I'll tell you after that investigation. 5:29 5 minutes, 29 seconds It's almost like at that point I was becoming a bit more skeptical and she was believing Bob Lazar 5:36 5 minutes, 36 seconds and that's kind of where I find myself with Bob Lazar. I I I change my mind every day. It depends on how much coffee I had, I guess. [laughter] 5:45 5 minutes, 45 seconds What What is it that that goes for a lot of things, I guess. Um, what what does it or what is it about Bob or his story 5:52 5 minutes, 52 seconds that kind of puts you there that kind of makes you say, "Okay, today I'm more into it today. I I've seen this interview or I've seen this piece of the documentary, whatever it might be, and 6:00 6 minutes you think, okay, you know what? I didn't think about that part. Maybe I actually do believe more than I did the other day." Or vice versa. You know what? Not 6:09 6 minutes, 9 seconds not really sure about all this. what kind of puts you there? 6:12 6 minutes, 12 seconds I think for me it always came down to what the uh you know the skeptics would always bring up the the education uh the 6:20 6 minutes, 20 seconds or the lack thereof that was often cited. Um kind of the dubious past of Bob Lazar too. I mean the dude like owned an illegal brothel at one point. 6:30 6 minutes, 30 seconds This is out in the public like literally his court trial is you could watch it on YouTube. Um and sort of things like 6:38 6 minutes, 38 seconds that. But, you know, the more I thought about it, the more I'm like, you know what? Why wouldn't they hire someone uh 6:45 6 minutes, 45 seconds who kind of had a lack of the education and someone who wasn't this prim and 6:52 6 minutes, 52 seconds proper pristine physicist or engineer, um, if this person were to go out and leak what they had been doing, it would 7:01 7 minutes, 1 second be so easy to discredit them. And that's exactly what happened. We're seeing it today with people like David Grush, too. 7:09 7 minutes, 9 seconds You know, the minute he came forward with what he's been talking about, blew the whistle on the legacy programs, I guess you could call them, uh, 7:18 7 minutes, 18 seconds immediately like hit pieces started coming out. So, oh no. And then you go fast forward up 7:25 7 minutes, 25 seconds until today with the Luigi Ventatelli documentary that came out. Um, I had Luigi on the show, talked for two hours, 7:33 7 minutes, 33 seconds talked off air about some of the evidence that we would eventually see in his new documentary. And I am now at the point where I'm convinced more than ever 7:42 7 minutes, 42 seconds that Bob Lazar did work out there and that there is an S4 location. Wow. 7:49 7 minutes, 49 seconds So again, ask me tomorrow. I might have a completely different answer for you, [laughter] man. 7:54 7 minutes, 54 seconds So by So by the time this series, you're going to write me back and say, "I don't believe that anymore." edit that out. 7:59 7 minutes, 59 seconds Yeah. [laughter] No, but that's really interesting because and and you're right, by the way, about how Bob Lazar is that one 8:06 8 minutes, 6 seconds name out of the UFO topic that anybody knows as far as a pop culture thing. 8:11 8 minutes, 11 seconds That is the one person I always have people ask me about when I tell them, "Oh, yeah, yeah, I've got this show." And you know, someone who doesn't not really familiar with what I do and they're like, "Oh, wow. That's awesome. 8:20 8 minutes, 20 seconds That's you know, that's so cool. Have you talked to that guy? You know that guy? He says he did the stuff with the UFOs." like Bob Lazar, they're like, 8:28 8 minutes, 28 seconds "Yeah, that's him." It's It's so true. I mean, and I don't know if if that means that is is that is that good? Is that right? 8:39 8 minutes, 39 seconds I mean, I feel like that's a good thing for the UFO topic when it comes to someone like Bob Lazar who kind of keeps this at the top or do you think it has like some type of negative effect that 8:47 8 minutes, 47 seconds his story continues to get debated over over the years? You know, I don't think it's necessarily a negative by any 8:56 8 minutes, 56 seconds stretch. I mean, no matter what you think about Bob Lazar, he is the reason we know about Area 51 that we kind of 9:05 9 minutes, 5 seconds started learning about these possible reverse engineering programs up until three congressional hearings these past 9:13 9 minutes, 13 seconds few years where these claims are now being proven and and are being documented. and we have Representative 9:20 9 minutes, 20 seconds Eric Berlinson going and knocking on the doors of these locations where allegedly these things are being housed. So, I 9:28 9 minutes, 28 seconds don't see Bob Lazar as a negative. I I could see some people thinking it's a distraction, 9:35 9 minutes, 35 seconds uh, you know, from the actual things going on out there, right? But I will tell you again, just watch Luigi's documentary and there's 9:44 9 minutes, 44 seconds things Bob Lazar was saying back in the 80s that are now coming true. Look at how he said these craft, the sports model 9:52 9 minutes, 52 seconds maneuvered. You know, it it would raise, it would turn up on his belly and then it would go sideways. And I'm starting 10:00 10 minutes to like I'm looking into other cases now and apparently this is how the Australian case, the Westall case, uh 10:08 10 minutes, 8 seconds how that craft maneuvered or things like the uh what was it that gimbal I think it was 10:15 10 minutes, 15 seconds the Navy video. Yeah, same thing. So like dude it's you cannot deny that there are 10:23 10 minutes, 23 seconds either very very big coincidences with what Bob Lazar said. Uh but in the UFO field I honestly don't believe in coincidences. 10:32 10 minutes, 32 seconds Right. Exactly. 10:33 10 minutes, 33 seconds We come across way too many of those in this field and it usually means that you're on to something. Um and for the record I completely agree with you by the way when it comes to I don't think 10:41 10 minutes, 41 seconds it's a negative. Could it act as a distraction from the other stories? 10:45 10 minutes, 45 seconds Sure. because I mean, you know, maybe you get caught up in one thing and, you know, you might not pay attention to something else that's going on, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad 10:52 10 minutes, 52 seconds thing. It just it's a very big topic and it's a big story. Um, and I do believe that, you know, pretty much what he says 11:00 11 minutes that that he was there and he worked on this stuff. Um, and actually you bring up Wesall, which is funny because I wanted to ask you about that. I know you 11:07 11 minutes, 7 seconds just did an episode on Westall and it's one of those topics again talking about kind of like the origin stories of the 11:14 11 minutes, 14 seconds UFO phenomenon. 60 years ago the Westall incident happened to me that remains one 11:21 11 minutes, 21 seconds of the like one of if you're talking about a cannon of UFO stories like that is right 11:28 11 minutes, 28 seconds up there for me with with uh Varia with Betty and Barney Hill with Roswell. I mean, Westall and but for whatever 11:36 11 minutes, 36 seconds reason, Westall it feels like is one of those cases that even though it's like an original, if you will, in modern day, 11:43 11 minutes, 43 seconds it feels like it doesn't get the amount of play that it deserves, almost that it's underrated in a sense compared to the other ones I just mentioned. So, 11:52 11 minutes, 52 seconds talk about a little bit of of the Westall case and what you learned from that and what people may not know about it. 11:58 11 minutes, 58 seconds Sure. Yeah. You know, the more I dig into that case, the more I agree with you. I think it should be up on the shelf with the Roswells, the Vheenas, 12:07 12 minutes, 7 seconds and the the Rendleshams and all that sort of stuff. Um, you have living witnesses still here to 12:15 12 minutes, 15 seconds talk about what they had seen, which is vital to any investigation. I mean, say what you want about Roswell, there's no 12:22 12 minutes, 22 seconds way we're ever going to truly know what that was because all the first witnesses are are unfortunately gone. Um, but we 12:32 12 minutes, 32 seconds have this case back in 66. Yep. 66. That would make it 60. I'm not good at math, 12:39 12 minutes, 39 seconds man. I I'm an English I was an English major. [laughter] Um, yeah, they just celebrated the 60th anniversary. and all the witnesses got back together. 12:48 12 minutes, 48 seconds And they do this like once a year, not just to like try to get attention on this case, but to make sure that their 12:57 12 minutes, 57 seconds memories don't fade, which can happen with these cases or things can get built upon, elaborated on, or exaggerated upon 13:06 13 minutes, 6 seconds and change. So, I think it's really cool that all these witnesses who were kids at the time, mind you, 12, 13 years old 13:13 13 minutes, 13 seconds when they had this incident happen, um, that they come together to be like, "Okay, let's make sure our stories are still straight." Like, you're not now 13:21 13 minutes, 21 seconds saying you got abducted or anything like that, right? Okay. Okay. We're good. 13:25 13 minutes, 25 seconds We're good. Um, so yeah, it's an interesting case. uh 66 Westell High School in Australia. A allegedly more 13:34 13 minutes, 34 seconds than one craft uh saucer discshaped landed right there near the high school and over 300 students witnessed this. 13:44 13 minutes, 44 seconds Yeah. And not only that, teachers saw it, too. 13:48 13 minutes, 48 seconds So it wasn't this excuse of kids pranking the teachers or making this up or mass hysteria as are often the case 13:56 13 minutes, 56 seconds with these schoolyard incidents which there are many of which is weird if you ask me. Um but this was kind of one of 14:04 14 minutes, 4 seconds the first and uh all the witnesses you know would eventually draw what they saw and they all kind of drew the same 14:11 14 minutes, 11 seconds looking craft. They said this thing landed um sort of hovered there for a while in a graange they called it. You 14:18 14 minutes, 18 seconds know, I guess it'd be like a I don't know, like a football field or a soccer pitch or something like that. 14:24 14 minutes, 24 seconds And um then it just shot off back into the sky and allegedly, according to one of the teachers and the students, 14:33 14 minutes, 33 seconds there were military aircraft pursuing this object or objects. Some of the kids actually said they saw more than one 14:41 14 minutes, 41 seconds craft, too. Um, but yeah, man, it it immediately um the principal of the 14:48 14 minutes, 48 seconds school sat these kids down and said, "Do not talk about this. We do not want to be known as a UFO 14:55 14 minutes, 55 seconds place." Um, allegedly Men in Black of some sort showed up. Some of the kids said that they had American accents, 15:04 15 minutes, 4 seconds which is very interesting as well. And uh they also told these kids and the teachers not to speak about what they had seen. And um they didn't listen. 15:15 15 minutes, 15 seconds This is one of those rare cases where these kids went and told everyone and the press showed up and it was taken 15:22 15 minutes, 22 seconds pretty seriously at the time. Uh they tried to track down the pilots of these aircraft that were 15:29 15 minutes, 29 seconds pursuing it. um you had uh many UFO investigators in Australia going there 15:37 15 minutes, 37 seconds at the time to investigate, interview the kids as well. And it's a crazy case, man. But like you said, um a lot of this 15:44 15 minutes, 44 seconds didn't come to light here in uh I live in Europe right now um or in the States. 15:51 15 minutes, 51 seconds Uh didn't come to light for some time after that. And it's it's sad because it is a well doumented and 15:58 15 minutes, 58 seconds huge UFO landing case. Yeah, it really should get more attention than I think it does. And it unless you're like really into the topic. You probably 16:06 16 minutes, 6 seconds never even heard of Westall. Like you know, like you talk about pop culture, you know about Area 51, you know about Roswell, right? You know about those those things. Everybody hears those 16:14 16 minutes, 14 seconds names. But you tell somebody the Westall incident, you know, the school in Australia, and they're like, "No, I've never heard that one." And it really 16:21 16 minutes, 21 seconds could be one of the most well doumented mass sightings we've ever had. And it's it it really should get more attention, I think. 16:30 16 minutes, 30 seconds Yeah. Sorry to interrupt, Stephen. You just reminded me, too. Um I was mentioning the belly up craft that Bob Lazar would would say. Um this is an 16:39 16 minutes, 39 seconds case where there is a possible clear photo of the craft. One of the clearest UFO photos out there. It was 16:48 16 minutes, 48 seconds taken by a a gentleman, I believe his last name was Kibble. I could be wrong on that, but you can find this image 16:55 16 minutes, 55 seconds that was first brought forward by James Fox in his uh phenomenon documentary where he interviewed this this guy who 17:03 17 minutes, 3 seconds took this photo. I think it was a couple days before the Westall event or something, but um he alleges that this is what the kids saw land in Westall. 17:14 17 minutes, 14 seconds And again, it looked just like what the kids had sketched um some days or maybe a week a week later and it was on its 17:24 17 minutes, 24 seconds side and it was perfectly discshaped metallic and it it's crazy. So again, 17:31 17 minutes, 31 seconds you have all everything you could ask for in a UFO case, let alone a UFO landing case, is here. Impressions on 17:39 17 minutes, 39 seconds the ground of the craft landing. um kind of a crop circleesque uh thing happening. Scorch marks on the 17:47 17 minutes, 47 seconds graange itself. It It's just It's incredible, man. I love it. I love this case. 17:52 17 minutes, 52 seconds Yeah, it it is an incredible case. And that's why I wanted to bring it up to kind of bring more light to it because the work you've done on it and the attention that it doesn't get. I mean, 18:00 18 minutes just imagine if if I use an analogy if here in 2026, and I'll just use Florida as an example because that's where I'm at. If you have a high school, say in 18:08 18 minutes, 8 seconds West Palm Beach, Florida, who had exactly the same scenario as the Westole case where you have 300 teachers and students, they say they saw these craft, 18:17 18 minutes, 17 seconds you have physical burn marks, you have all this different evidence that you can look at and could you imagine no one talking about it, you know what I mean? Now, 18:25 18 minutes, 25 seconds obviously today it would be different because everyone has phones and they're going to record it and take pictures, but in the same case, I mean, everybody would be talking about this. It would be 18:34 18 minutes, 34 seconds brought up forever and ever. But it just seems like this one and if you even compare it to the aerial school right out of uh Zimbabwe 18:42 18 minutes, 42 seconds right and the mid 90s so we're talking about 30 years ago for that gets more attention and rightfully so. It's an 18:49 18 minutes, 49 seconds incredible case but I I feel like this one just kind of gets left in the dust and arguably I mean you could even say 18:57 18 minutes, 57 seconds that maybe Westall should get more attention than Ariel. Not to try to put, you know, one down over the other, but just the amount of evidence for the 19:05 19 minutes, 5 seconds sheer numbers because with Ariel, you correct me if if if you think I'm wrong, but Ariel, you're talking about, you know, a class of elementary school 19:14 19 minutes, 14 seconds students and so you're talking about 30 kids versus about 300, you know, staff and students. Do I mean, do you think 19:23 19 minutes, 23 seconds No, I think you're right. Like I mean, again, Rua Zimbabwe is an incredible case. I've interviewed some of the witnesses myself. Um, but not only was 19:32 19 minutes, 32 seconds this like the amount of witnesses was like tripled, but um, with Rua, I've I wouldn't say I have an issue with it, 19:41 19 minutes, 41 seconds but it is a lot more incredible of a case where you have actual beings that were witnessed with these with these 19:48 19 minutes, 48 seconds kids. Um, which will I mean immediately and forgive the pun, but like will alienate half the people 19:56 19 minutes, 56 seconds who may have originally believed that case. They're going to be like, "Oh, so now they're saying they telepathically communicated with the occupants of the 20:04 20 minutes, 4 seconds craft. No, thank you." Um, with Westall, yeah, you've got triple the amount of witnesses. Um, no beings were allegedly 20:12 20 minutes, 12 seconds uh witness. Um, so that does make it a little bit more credible in my eyes. Um, but yeah. Yeah, you're right on all of 20:20 20 minutes, 20 seconds those points. And, um, that really has to do with the diligent research of people like Keith Bastfield. Um, who 20:27 20 minutes, 27 seconds else? James McDonald, the US investigator, flew to Australia like a week or two after or something like that. Um, and 20:36 20 minutes, 36 seconds interviewed the teacher, uh, Shane Ryan has an incredible documentary out on Westall. I highly suggest people check that out. Um, so 20:45 20 minutes, 45 seconds yeah, Australian UFO researchers did all they could to get this case out to the public. And, uh, like you said, it wasn't the age of the internet. There 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds were no cell phones, so it took a little time for it to get out there. And I do agree. Today it would be a completely different story. It would be a much different story on on 21:02 21 minutes, 2 seconds Ariel though because you're right about Ariel and that is a huge distinction and I'm glad you said it. They they do claim witnessing an actual being coming off 21:10 21 minutes, 10 seconds the craft. So with that, if we can just draw comparisons, what what do you think about? What kind of comes to your mind when you think about the aerial school 21:18 21 minutes, 18 seconds case about 30 years ago where you do have about these, you know, 30 kids, elementary school age, I believe, who 21:24 21 minutes, 24 seconds say they witness this craft landing in the back of the school beings come off the craft and they never change their story to this day. So I mean, what what 21:33 21 minutes, 33 seconds do you think about when you kind of just ponder that case? 21:39 21 minutes, 39 seconds I think it's again one of the most incredible cases we have. I would put it on the shelf with something like 21:47 21 minutes, 47 seconds Westall. Um even with the beings involved, I mean, I I've personally interviewed uh two of the witnesses. Uh 21:56 21 minutes, 56 seconds Emily Trim was one of them who we unfortunately lost a couple years ago at this point. Um, but I also spoke to 22:04 22 minutes, 4 seconds another woman who uh it was amazing where she she mentioned uh Selma Sadik 22:11 22 minutes, 11 seconds is her name and she saw the beings. Uh she allegedly had some sort of telepathic thing happen with them. And 22:20 22 minutes, 20 seconds dude, I'm like talking to this woman and she's as normal as they come. I don't know how else to put it. Um, these 22:28 22 minutes, 28 seconds witnesses are so genuine and sincere in their stories. They're clearly, they've all clearly been affected by it. Some 22:37 22 minutes, 37 seconds good, some bad. Some of the witnesses, you know, after that event, they became alcoholics. They uh had 22:45 22 minutes, 45 seconds forms of like PTSD. This affected them negatively. Uh, for Selma, it was completely different. Uh she said that 22:52 22 minutes, 52 seconds she got these messages of like hope and like love and all this from these uh supposed beings and she would go on to 23:00 23 minutes do incredible things in her life with like civil rights and the environment and um several of the witnesses claim 23:08 23 minutes, 8 seconds that too like that you know kind of those I don't want to call them cliche but those messages that contactees used 23:16 23 minutes, 16 seconds to say of like we got to save the planet stop using nuclear weapons Um, it's cliche for a reason because it's the 23:23 23 minutes, 23 seconds right thing to do. And I think not just for humans, but clearly all other beings that might be out there are like, "Hey, 23:32 23 minutes, 32 seconds that little planet down there, can you stop doing that?" Cuz it's uh kind of messing up the whole universe. So, Right. Right. 23:39 23 minutes, 39 seconds I don't know. I love the case. I love Rua. Um, I think there's still things we could learn from it, but uh very credible in my opinion. 23:47 23 minutes, 47 seconds Yeah. And it's one of those things where, you know, I just kind of use the the rational the rationale when people bring that case up to me. I I think 23:55 23 minutes, 55 seconds about like my own kids and how much, you know, they argue or they bicker or they don't agree on something. And then I think about trying to get 30s something 24:04 24 minutes, 4 seconds kids or, you know, plus or minus a few to all agree on one thing and to all agree to keep the same story and all the same details. That to me is what makes 24:12 24 minutes, 12 seconds that story in particular very very credible because I it's impossible. 24:16 24 minutes, 16 seconds Anybody with kids understands um it's simply impossible or if you're a teacher or no teachers how impossible that would 24:23 24 minutes, 23 seconds be to get a group of kids to agree on one thing like that and to keep the story 24:29 24 minutes, 29 seconds for years. And I I am curious too when you talk about when you speak with the witnesses, there's something you touched 24:37 24 minutes, 37 seconds on there as far as how um humans are affected by contact, whether it's just, 24:45 24 minutes, 45 seconds you know, not not to make it sound like it's nothing, but whether it's just in air quotes a sighting of a craft or you do have some type of abduction 24:52 24 minutes, 52 seconds experience or you have some type of close encounter with a being where you you know claim to have this telepathic communication. It seems like there's 25:01 25 minutes, 1 second different stories about how people have felt come during that and coming off of those experiences. And I know this is 25:08 25 minutes, 8 seconds something that a conversation that that you take very passionately because you wrote a book on it about the human experience. So what do you what did you 25:16 25 minutes, 16 seconds find out about how people respond differently to different close encounters and why do you think it 25:24 25 minutes, 24 seconds happens that way? Yeah. You know, I and I when I first got involved in the whole 25:31 25 minutes, 31 seconds UFO thing, I'm like, what can I do that hasn't been done? Like, I could take down a witness report and like put that 25:40 25 minutes, 40 seconds out there, but what what is that, you know, in the grand scheme of things? 25:45 25 minutes, 45 seconds It's just another it is a piece of testimony that we now have. But I come from a uh a playwriting background. 25:54 25 minutes, 54 seconds Actually, I I'm a trained playwright. I did it uh in New York for over a decade. 26:00 26 minutes My plays have been produced all over the world at this point. And I I thought, you know, maybe there's 26:07 26 minutes, 7 seconds something in that that I could infuse into my UFO research. And that's when my first book kind of formulated of like, 26:15 26 minutes, 15 seconds okay, it's not going to be about the actual UFO itself or or exactly what it looked like or how the event unfolded, but the aftermath, you know, in a play. 26:27 26 minutes, 27 seconds That's what we're there to see. You know, we're there to see the most pivotal moment in someone's life. 26:33 26 minutes, 33 seconds Otherwise, why are we, you know, shoveling out this money to go on Broadway and watch someone eat dinner or something like that? like no, you're go 26:42 26 minutes, 42 seconds you're dropped into their life when they are going to be fundamentally changed in some way. Um, and I thought, you know 26:49 26 minutes, 49 seconds what, that's what these UFO events do to people. They fundamentally change them in very drastically different ways. 26:58 26 minutes, 58 seconds Yeah. 26:58 26 minutes, 58 seconds And um I thought there we go. like I'll kind of look at each of these witnesses as a character as it were and um try to 27:06 27 minutes, 6 seconds unpack the aftermath, the consequences of having a UFO sighting or encounter or abduction experience and I went around 27:16 27 minutes, 16 seconds the world and I tr I interviewed hundreds of people for the book and I think I thought I was going to find like 27:24 27 minutes, 24 seconds one or two patterns so that I could be like, "Yep, solved eupfology. I'm done." like mic drop. Dude, I like I could not 27:33 27 minutes, 33 seconds have been more dumb when it came to that because there are no patterns. I tried 27:39 27 minutes, 39 seconds and I I'll tell you, every single person reacted differently during their sighting and took something differently 27:47 27 minutes, 47 seconds from it. I mean, I can say yes, some of them uh the the one pattern I can think 27:54 27 minutes, 54 seconds of right now that I did find with a large amount of these people was that they um 28:01 28 minutes, 1 second they became creative and and I don't know how else to really put that other 28:08 28 minutes, 8 seconds than this. For example, this one guy had no interest in art, nothing like that. 28:14 28 minutes, 14 seconds He had these crazy orb sightings over his home. I believe it was in South Carolina um back in the early 2000s and 28:23 28 minutes, 23 seconds after these events he started getting these like images in his head of these beautiful geometric shapes and whatnot 28:30 28 minutes, 30 seconds and he's like I need to remember this and he started painting them and then he just kept doing this and kept doing this as these orbs were coming into his life 28:39 28 minutes, 39 seconds and um he became an artist after that coming from like a technical background he then became an artist or 28:46 28 minutes, 46 seconds there was this other person who had never picked up a guitar in his life and after having had a UFO sighting started like freaking whailing on that thing, dude. Like no training, nothing. 28:58 28 minutes, 58 seconds And that's like that blew me away. Um, so if there is one thing I learned from 29:06 29 minutes, 6 seconds all of them, it's that it opened people's minds. It unlocked something. 29:11 29 minutes, 11 seconds And without getting like too like newagy, uh, it it was It did something that I think the world 29:19 29 minutes, 19 seconds needs and that's more creativity, more imagination. And I think that's what all UFOs represent. You know, we live in a 29:28 29 minutes, 28 seconds world where like imagination seems to be disappearing every day. You know, we're stuck on our phones, all that stuff, and 29:36 29 minutes, 36 seconds the the scrolling. And um I sound like such a a boomer right now, but 29:40 29 minutes, 40 seconds [laughter] 29:41 29 minutes, 41 seconds but like Yeah, it's true, man. So, I I think UFOs open our eyes to more than just the UFO itself and it makes us feel human again. 29:52 29 minutes, 52 seconds And um that's kind of what I found with these people. 29:54 29 minutes, 54 seconds It's really interesting because, you know, it's true. You know, we we we focus a lot on the story, the case, the abduction, the sighting, but what 30:03 30 minutes, 3 seconds happened after? And I've spoken, you know, like you, I've spoken to a lot of people who kind of go into the after, you know, did you feel like you were 30:11 30 minutes, 11 seconds being led into something after that? did you have a deeper meaning and understanding of life and you know your your your own path and it always seems 30:20 30 minutes, 20 seconds to go that way like it always seems to have for the most part I shouldn't say always it's never an always but for the most part for the people I've spoken 30:28 30 minutes, 28 seconds with it seems to have a positive experience for their outlook and they start recognizing more things they have 30:36 30 minutes, 36 seconds different knowledge I've spoken to someone I actually plan on doing this interview soon I've spoken to someone and it's it's incredible actually and I can't Can't wait to do the interview. 30:44 30 minutes, 44 seconds Um, this woman who started having this knowledge of like advanced physics and 30:51 30 minutes, 51 seconds like quantum like like quantum level physics and it's incredible. She's actually sent me this actually. This is kind of an exclusive with you here, 30:59 30 minutes, 59 seconds Ryan. Um, I've been talking to this woman for about a year and she has sent me some of her work and I'm looking at this. I'm like, I have no idea what I'm 31:08 31 minutes, 8 seconds looking at. This is way above my pay grade to understand what I'm reading here. this is quantum level physics, but you wrote it and you're you're sending 31:16 31 minutes, 16 seconds it to me and ever since she had this encounter um she has this like understanding and she feels like she's getting messages of like how all this 31:25 31 minutes, 25 seconds stuff works. So to your and it's incredible and I I do plan on doing that interview with her um later on if she's listening, you know, you know who you 31:32 31 minutes, 32 seconds are. But to your point, it's that's something that doesn't get brought up enough because we like to, I think, 31:38 31 minutes, 38 seconds romanticize and kind of focus on the the sexy part, if you will, of eupfology, 31:46 31 minutes, 46 seconds but you forget that this includes real people and they have real experiences afterward. And so it's it's it's 31:56 31 minutes, 56 seconds fascinating. I mean, there has to be something there, right? Whether or not someone believes there's stuff going on, something is happening to people that is giving them this new outlook or new knowledge. 32:06 32 minutes, 6 seconds Absolutely, man. You know, and we are storytellers by nature. Ever since the days of the cavemen drawing etchings of like, yo, I ran into a T-Rex today. 32:15 32 minutes, 15 seconds Don't go that way. Like, do not do that. 32:18 32 minutes, 18 seconds Like, we are storytellers. But I think you're right. uh you know in again in a play like yeah you're telling a story but at the heart of it are the 32:26 32 minutes, 26 seconds characters and that can be very unsexy like you said especially the deeper you get into the psyche of a character 32:34 32 minutes, 34 seconds it's a minefield man and it can be messy it can be ugly it can be disturbing um but at the same time it can be beautiful 32:42 32 minutes, 42 seconds and again I think that's what UFOs are to me and that aftermath or uh I guess consequence of a sighting And it's not 32:51 32 minutes, 51 seconds just the powerful ones like picking up an instrument, coming up with like a quantum physics code or something like 32:58 32 minutes, 58 seconds that. It's the little things. And the more they kind of open up to that, uh, the more I think it's going to show 33:06 33 minutes, 6 seconds people, um, I I often like to put it this way. 33:10 33 minutes, 10 seconds Disclosure is never going to happen from a government. I'm sorry. I'm just that's not I'm not one of those people. Um, all the power to those trying to do that. 33:21 33 minutes, 21 seconds But I do believe if you want a UFO disclosure, it's going to happen person by person, having a sighting, having an 33:29 33 minutes, 29 seconds encounter, and then um, you know, sharing that with someone, just getting it out there. I don't necessarily 33:37 33 minutes, 37 seconds believe every single person I've ever talked to who told me the UFO story like saw a being from Zeta Reticuli or like a a Plleadian or anything like that. 33:48 33 minutes, 48 seconds Um, but I'm going to listen because that's what they're not getting from the world because of the stigma and the ridicule 33:56 33 minutes, 56 seconds that often comes with it. It's it's shedding a lot. But um if I can just listen and be there to like preserve 34:03 34 minutes, 3 seconds that story for that person, I feel like I've contributed something to this crazy world of euphology that never seems to get any answers. Uh just more questions. 34:15 34 minutes, 15 seconds And maybe that's what the phenomenon wants from us to ask more questions instead of getting answers. I don't know. What do you think? 34:23 34 minutes, 23 seconds Yeah. No, I mean a amen on that. I think, you know, answers are great, but as long as we're bringing and maybe we don't have the answers. This is kind of the way I've looked at it before in the 34:31 34 minutes, 31 seconds past is I I know I don't have the answers, but I think I at least know or at least have an idea of what questions 34:39 34 minutes, 39 seconds and what paths to go down to at least put the discussion out there and maybe somebody else can help to to find an answer or figure it out. Um, and 34:48 34 minutes, 48 seconds that's what I try to do is is at least to put the topics out there, to put the questions out there so we can all kind of think on it together, you know, and 34:56 34 minutes, 56 seconds and and actually just to bring up one more thing, not to harp so much on it, but I find it fascinating where you talk about the people who have had um, you 35:05 35 minutes, 5 seconds know, newfound abilities like I've spoken I just spoke about the woman who reached out to me and the people that that you've interviewed these like newfound talents, abilities, knowledge, 35:14 35 minutes, 14 seconds after and experience. I do find it interesting if people hear that and they say, "Well, that's just a croc." Well, think about people, we see this in 35:22 35 minutes, 22 seconds science, we see this in in medical journals where people who have had different traumatic brain injuries come 35:28 35 minutes, 28 seconds out with these unbelievable uh talents. All of a sudden, you're a master piano player. All of a sudden, 35:36 35 minutes, 36 seconds you can speak fluent Spanish, Latin, German, and you have no idea how you can play a guitar. it all like you have this 35:43 35 minutes, 43 seconds newfound knowledge because of this brain injury you suffered and for whatever reason that brain injury and again this is documented a lot of times that brain 35:52 35 minutes, 52 seconds injury has unlocked something that is been in your mind that you never knew that you had access to. So is there 36:00 36 minutes since we have physical proof of that in medical journals, maybe there is something to be said when it comes to the UFO phenomenon and how people are 36:09 36 minutes, 9 seconds being affected by that kind of unlocking that same part of the brain. Am I am I crazy? Does that make sense? 36:14 36 minutes, 14 seconds No, I mean you look at the work of someone like uh uh Gary Nolan who who has looked extensively into kind of the neurological effects of UFO witnesses. 36:26 36 minutes, 26 seconds You know, I I can't pretend to know a lot of the work that Gary has done in in that field. I haven't personally looked into it, but he has found like these 36:35 36 minutes, 35 seconds patterns within UFO witnesses and whatnot where it seems that certain synapsis in the brain are like lighting 36:43 36 minutes, 43 seconds up in these witnesses and stuff. So, maybe there is something to that. you know, one one man's brain injury is 36:52 36 minutes, 52 seconds another person's like uh UFO event, you know. I I don't know. I don't know. It's it's it is interesting. And I think 37:00 37 minutes there is something to be said about the mind and consciousness and all of that stuff. A lot of these UFO witnesses 37:08 37 minutes, 8 seconds start to go down go down the consciousness route. Yeah. After their experiences, too. 37:13 37 minutes, 13 seconds And maybe that's where this is all heading, man. I I don't I don't know. 37:16 37 minutes, 16 seconds But uh it's a path I I find interesting and one I'll keep stumbling down with the rest of efology. 37:24 37 minutes, 24 seconds Exactly. Right. And the questions continue. Um but yeah, it's it's just interesting to think right you know the consciousness aspect maybe there is something there that it's it's always 37:32 37 minutes, 32 seconds there and we just don't know how to connect to it until something happens. 37:37 37 minutes, 37 seconds Um and then it does it for us. Kind of getting back to some of the like the original cases. I this is one that I 37:44 37 minutes, 44 seconds remember as a kid uh in the mid90s actually specifically 1997 March of 1997. 37:51 37 minutes, 51 seconds It was one of the first cases that I remember maybe the first actually really being interested in that sparked an 37:59 37 minutes, 59 seconds interest in UFOs for me and that was the Phoenix lights. 38:02 38 minutes, 2 seconds And you probably already guessed what I was getting to when I said March of 1997. I had a feeling. 38:08 38 minutes, 8 seconds Yes. So when when we hear about those again it's one of those pop culture things because that was modern day now still before cell phones but we had 38:16 38 minutes, 16 seconds camcorders and you had people recording this on their on their camcorders and you had news stations around the country and around the globe covering the 38:24 38 minutes, 24 seconds Phoenix light story. To this day almost almost 30 years later uh we don't have solid answers on what that was. this 38:34 38 minutes, 34 seconds formation of lights flying in this giant V-shaped formation over Phoenix, one of the most famous modern-day mass 38:42 38 minutes, 42 seconds sightings uh ever. So, in the work that you've done, Ryan, on on the Phoenix Lights, I know you've done different TV 38:50 38 minutes, 50 seconds uh interviews on this, what can you reflect on when it comes to the Phoenix Lights case, and that can maybe help us to make sense of this almost 30 years later? 39:00 39 minutes That is a good question, man. Um, and I think it was manufactured this way that 39:06 39 minutes, 6 seconds we don't have a firm answer. Uh, it's a mass UFO sighting. Again, this needs to be put on the shelf with some of the best cases out there. Uh, you're right. 39:17 39 minutes, 17 seconds This was one of the first times where um you know video evidence started to really become a thing in the UFO field 39:24 39 minutes, 24 seconds and hundreds of witnesses were now recording a UFO event happening in real 39:30 39 minutes, 30 seconds time as it was happening. Um and so when it comes to the Phoenix lights in my investigation I like most investigators 39:39 39 minutes, 39 seconds I think have come to the conclusion that there are two distinct different events. 39:44 39 minutes, 44 seconds There was an earlier event around 7 or 8 o'clock p.m. where people all across Arizona um in other states as well, mind 39:54 39 minutes, 54 seconds you, this thing apparently this boomerang shaped craft that had been witnessed earlier in the night went from 40:00 40 minutes like Mexico over to like New Mexico. Um maybe chilled over near Area 51, I don't know, and then came over to Arizona. And 40:10 40 minutes, 10 seconds uh people just didn't know what they were seeing. 40:14 40 minutes, 14 seconds Massive football-shaped boomerang craft in a V formation like you said, witnessed by a lot of people. The governor of Arizona at the time would 40:24 40 minutes, 24 seconds later come forward and say he saw the boomerang shaped craft earlier in the night as well. Um so that's one case. 40:32 40 minutes, 32 seconds That's the actual Phoenix Lights UFO in my opinion. 40:37 40 minutes, 37 seconds Right. 10 PM rolls around and unfortunately a lot of the videos you will see out there are what I believe to be military flares. 40:48 40 minutes, 48 seconds And the reason I say that is because I firmly believe there was an authentic UF mass UFO sighting earlier that night, 40:57 40 minutes, 57 seconds but I do believe it was covered up by the government, the military, whatever you want to call it. And they did send 41:05 41 minutes, 5 seconds up planes to drop flares and be like, "It's okay, everybody. This was a training thing. We do this stuff all the time, blah blah blah." The governor 41:13 41 minutes, 13 seconds would come out with that infamous press conference with someone dressed as an alien, make fun of it. Again, 41:21 41 minutes, 21 seconds retrospectively, he would come forward and say, "No, I actually saw the craft. 41:25 41 minutes, 25 seconds My bad. Sorry. Sorry." Um, so yeah, that's kind of where and in my investigation, we spoke to a gentleman named Tom King who uh scans the skies. 41:36 41 minutes, 36 seconds He's a sky watcher in Arizona, captures some of the most incredible UFOs out there. Uh, he is in possession of videos 41:44 41 minutes, 44 seconds from the 7:00 event of the actual structured boomerang craft, and we got to see some of those. Um, they're not 41:52 41 minutes, 52 seconds the best. Obviously, this is back in the '90s. degradation has occurred on these videos, but uh we have video evidence in 42:01 42 minutes, 1 second our investigation at least that there was a solid craft witness at that time and in that location. So, I don't know, 42:09 42 minutes, 9 seconds man. It was a crazy investigation. We talked to a Air Force pilot who actually saw the lights while he was in the air that night. Wow. 42:17 42 minutes, 17 seconds Um he has never come forward before. He wouldn't show his face on our television show, but uh I could tell you we 42:26 42 minutes, 26 seconds obviously vetted him and he is who he says he is and he was a straight shooter. Um Lin Katai, one of the most 42:33 42 minutes, 33 seconds famous witnesses of the event. We talked to her. 42:36 42 minutes, 36 seconds Um and then we talked to a Zouri tribelder and we got the kind of Native American uh 42:43 42 minutes, 43 seconds Pueblo perspective of the Phoenix Lights too. You know, allegedly the lights went behind this mountain when this event happened. So, 42:52 42 minutes, 52 seconds we hiked up to that mountain with this like 82year-old tribelder named Clifford Mahoodi. Uh, rest in peace. He passed 43:00 43 minutes away as well. The dude had a kidney transplant like a month before I went there, dude. And he beat me up the hill. 43:07 43 minutes, 7 seconds That's how like awesome this guy was. 43:10 43 minutes, 10 seconds But you go up to where the lights disappeared behind that mountain and it's just covered in petetroglyphs, Native American petetroglyphs. 43:21 43 minutes, 21 seconds So he believes this was the star people and that they came out of these mountains and they went back into the 43:30 43 minutes, 30 seconds mountains and these were what the Native Americans call star people and and stuff like that. So, you can look at the Phoenix Lights from 43:37 43 minutes, 37 seconds so many different vantage points and um it's an awesome case. It's an incredible case. 43:43 43 minutes, 43 seconds It is. Yeah. Still still one of those that he done a great job on it. And it's still one of those that um you know, kind of we we keep questioning, right? 43:53 43 minutes, 53 seconds We keep looking into it. We keep trying to figure out what is going on with with all that. I think what was it? 43:58 43 minutes, 58 seconds Febington, was that the governor? I'm trying to remember. Yeah. 44:01 44 minutes, 1 second Of of Arizona at that time. And you're right. He came out uh and he apologized later on because of that press conference you mentioned where he had the fake alien come out. They made fun 44:09 44 minutes, 9 seconds of the whole thing. They made people feel like, you know, they were crazy and it was all one big joke. And you know, he came out later on and apologized. 44:16 44 minutes, 16 seconds He's like, "Yeah, you know, to your point." He's like, "I I did I saw I saw it, too." And you know, I apologize for doing that. Um because it just made a 44:24 44 minutes, 24 seconds stigma grow. Do you think that was on purpose, Ryan? Do you think that was do and this is conspiratorial, so but I mean that's just a thought that pops into my head. Do you think he was 44:32 44 minutes, 32 seconds instructed to do that? To kind of come out and give like this hokey press conference to make a joke out of it and make light out of it and, you know, quell the fears and tell everybody, 44:41 44 minutes, 41 seconds okay, you know, this is nothing to worry about here. We can joke around about this. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. 44:46 44 minutes, 46 seconds Yeah. You know, and we came across this in the Westall investigation, too. Uh when Grant Lav came on my show to talk 44:53 44 minutes, 53 seconds about it, like the principal at the time was like telling the kids not to talk about it. And it wasn't so much of like spooky government telling us to shut up. 45:03 45 minutes, 3 seconds It was more of like we don't want to be known as the UFO school. I don't believe F Simon wanted to be known as, you know, 45:12 45 minutes, 12 seconds the mass UFO state. Um I think he was going through a reelection at the time, too. So like and a very contentious one. 45:21 45 minutes, 21 seconds So I think this couldn't have happened at a worse time for F Simington. And I do think he was like, "All right, I 45:27 45 minutes, 27 seconds don't want this mass panic. Um I I I I'm going to make light of it, even though I saw what these people said I they saw." 45:36 45 minutes, 36 seconds Um did it come from up on high even further than the governor uh from the Air Force or, you know, Washington? I 45:43 45 minutes, 43 seconds don't know. Um but I do think there was a cover up. I do I believe that later event was done by the military to try to 45:52 45 minutes, 52 seconds explain everything that happened that night because they didn't have control over the skies that night clearly. 45:59 45 minutes, 59 seconds And and and that is interesting to to kind of talk about the flares because that is one thing that people always kind of debate, right? Well, was it 46:06 46 minutes, 6 seconds flares? Was it, you know, uh paratroopers with flares on their ankle or something like that? Um, and it's interesting to kind of draw the 46:13 46 minutes, 13 seconds comparison where you mentioned later on it probably was flares, but that was their way of saying nothing to see here, 46:20 46 minutes, 20 seconds but earlier it was not flares. So, absolutely. 46:23 46 minutes, 23 seconds Yeah, I think both could be true. Just real one more thing on that real quick, and this is something I've always wondered. I've always thought it was one big craft, and I think you've alluded to 46:30 46 minutes, 30 seconds that. Is there any evidence at all that it wasn't one big craft, that we were actually seeing multiple orbs at that 46:38 46 minutes, 38 seconds time? We we didn't really talk about orbs in the '9s. That's really been more of a right, you know, probably phenomenon over the past 5 years. Is that is that an option, do you think? 46:49 46 minutes, 49 seconds Yeah, absolutely. I I think it's it's always an option. I I believe there are witnesses to the earlier events who 46:57 46 minutes, 57 seconds claimed that it wasn't like a perfect boomerang shaped craft. Um, the interesting thing about that, man, is 47:05 47 minutes, 5 seconds the witnesses who saw, I guess, quote unquote, orbs earlier in the night. Um, 47:13 47 minutes, 13 seconds I spoke to several of them and they said when they saw the orbs, they were intelligent. They were, it was like a choreographed dance of these things 47:21 47 minutes, 21 seconds spinning around one another and making what they believe were intelligent maneuvers. But the big thing was after 47:29 47 minutes, 29 seconds seeing them they immediately forgot about it. It was like this this like instant amnesia almost. And you do hear 47:37 47 minutes, 37 seconds this. I have so many cases in my book where people it wasn't like a a missing time abduction but it was an instant 47:46 47 minutes, 46 seconds blackout of what had just occurred. Um this happens a lot with like boomerang shakecraft and whatnot that I found. But 47:54 47 minutes, 54 seconds uh with the Phoenix lights, yes, there were orb sightings earlier in the night, not just the boomerang shaped craft. And 48:01 48 minutes, 1 second those witnesses claimed that it took weeks, if not months later, for something to trigger their memory into remembering what they had seen. So wow. 48:10 48 minutes, 10 seconds Yeah. And then again, Zooi Zouri Tribeler, I firmly believe that he saw light energies of some sort, and that 48:18 48 minutes, 18 seconds was earlier in the night. It wasn't the flares at night. uh later in the night, excuse me. So, yeah. Yeah, I I do leave 48:26 48 minutes, 26 seconds that possibility open because of the sheer amount of witnesses who have reported to that, reported that. 48:31 48 minutes, 31 seconds Yeah, I actually didn't know that. I didn't know that there were other or uh orb reports during that time, too. So, I'm I'm glad I asked. Um yeah, 48:39 48 minutes, 39 seconds before we're done, Ryan, I am going to I am going to bring up wrestling, and I know that sounds completely out of 48:46 48 minutes, 46 seconds place. There's really no way to segue into that. It sounds totally totally out of left field what what we've been talking about. But this where half your audience is gone, dude. I hope you know what you're doing. 48:58 48 minutes, 58 seconds [laughter] Th This is where they give the show a side eye when I bring up wrestling, not when we talk about consciousness gaining abilities from alien abduction. It's it's the wrestling part. [laughter] 49:07 49 minutes, 7 seconds And I'll explain why I'm going to bring that up. But before I get into that, because I'm saving that for last. Uh before I get into that part, just one more question on the phenomenon. We've talked about all of these cases, right? 49:18 49 minutes, 18 seconds You know, if the the origin stories, if you will, of eupfology, um, and kind of like the forgotten details of all these, 49:25 49 minutes, 25 seconds aside from the ones we brought up, and maybe this isn't a fair question to ask, but aside from the ones that we brought up, what would you say is another type 49:33 49 minutes, 33 seconds of origin story that people should pay attention to that maybe we forget about, we get distracted with everything else 49:40 49 minutes, 40 seconds going on, so we don't think about it, or maybe they just haven't heard too much about it. Can you point to one that people should go and look at and say, 49:47 49 minutes, 47 seconds "Okay, this one it might have happened a long time ago, but you really need to pay attention to it." Yeah, absolutely. You know, for the 49:55 49 minutes, 55 seconds longest time, I was actually writing a play about the 1980 Rendlesam Forest incident. That's not the one I'm 50:03 50 minutes, 3 seconds actually going to talk about. I do think that one has gotten the the justice it deserves in euphology. I think there's 50:10 50 minutes, 10 seconds still a lot to unpack there, but the one that actually sticks out to me, and this is funny. I was just going through my um 50:16 50 minutes, 16 seconds my UFO library back here, man. And I um I had a feeling this question might come up of like what other cases would I recommend, right? 50:26 50 minutes, 26 seconds Um and I found my first ever uh FOIA request that I made. Oh, wow. 50:32 50 minutes, 32 seconds And um I have John Greenwald of the Black Vault to thank. He kind of walked me through how to do this. Dude's a freaking 50:39 50 minutes, 39 seconds lion when it comes to that. It's incredible. 50:43 50 minutes, 43 seconds He's the guy when it comes to uh putting out foyers. Yeah. He's he knows Absolutely. Yeah. 50:47 50 minutes, 47 seconds Absolutely. Um and and this is it. I found my first ever Oh, wow. 50:52 50 minutes, 52 seconds uh Freedom of Information Act request to the Department. It was to the Defense Intelligence Agency. Oh, wow. 51:00 51 minutes And this is just the cover page. I've got like 10 other pages here. But um you you went straight to the DIA. I 51:07 51 minutes, 7 seconds mean, you you did He just went straight for the big guys, ripped the band-aid off. Well, and again, I had John to thank for that, dude. Because like back then, I like 51:15 51 minutes, 15 seconds many was like, "Dear government, give me UFO information." All of it, right? Like 51:22 51 minutes, 22 seconds me want it, you give me it. Uh, no. John taught me how to actually go for specific places cuz otherwise, man, 51:31 51 minutes, 31 seconds you're going to get a letter saying, "We have no record of that within the agency you asked, but blah blah blah blah blah." they will do everything they can to not give you these things. Trust me. 51:41 51 minutes, 41 seconds Um, so I followed what John told me to do and I got like seven maybe like 10 51:48 51 minutes, 48 seconds pages on this case out of Tran, Iran, which is a little too timely right now. 51:55 51 minutes, 55 seconds Um but yeah, 1976 the case in Tran where um air force pilots were sent up to 52:03 52 minutes, 3 seconds pursue uh a craft, a diamond-shaped craft in the sky. And uh these these documents, they read like a science 52:11 52 minutes, 11 seconds fiction novel. I'm not kidding you. It's crazy. Um the general at the time, Pervvis Stafari, uh he sent two pilots up. They tried to pursue this thing. 52:20 52 minutes, 20 seconds Their instruments failed. They got scared of what they were seeing and they h high tailed it back to uh the military base. And Parvvis Jafari was like, 52:27 52 minutes, 27 seconds "Okay, I'm gonna go up there. Like, you guys are whatever. I got this." And he went up and same thing, man. All of his 52:35 52 minutes, 35 seconds instruments started to fail. His weapons wouldn't work. He couldn't lock a target on this thing and nothing like that. And 52:42 52 minutes, 42 seconds um it was it's a crazy case the way he played cat and mouse with this diamond shaped craft up there. And um he would 52:49 52 minutes, 49 seconds eventually come back to the base, report what he had seen, and he didn't even get off the tarmac and there were already 52:58 52 minutes, 58 seconds federal agents and stuff from the United States there um in I mean Yeah. You got to think 76, right? It's pre IRGC. So, Right. 53:08 53 minutes, 8 seconds Exactly. And we were um we were lending them aircraft at the time and the fact that something was outmaneuvering and shutting down the weapons on one of the US's aircraft. 53:20 53 minutes, 20 seconds True. 53:21 53 minutes, 21 seconds They probably were a little alarmed and they questioned this guy like crazy after this. And he would eventually go on to testify at the National Press Club 53:29 53 minutes, 29 seconds about this event. You can read his entire story in Leslie Kane's book on UFOs or go to John Greenwald's Black 53:37 53 minutes, 37 seconds Vault. He's got all the files that I have and more on this case. So, I highly suggest people look into it. Probably 53:44 53 minutes, 44 seconds one of the most incredible, if not the most um documented at least pursuits of a UFO by a military ever. Ever. 53:54 53 minutes, 54 seconds I'm so glad you brought that one up. I mean, I think that was and there's a lot to choose from. I think that was probably the perfect one to bring up 54:01 54 minutes, 1 second because it's it's a completely forgotten and in some cases just totally unknown story mainly [clears throat] because of the time. It's 50 years ago. It's 1976. 54:11 54 minutes, 11 seconds It's over Iran. It's you know it involves this diamond shaped craft. No one pays attention to those stories. But you're and this is a military story. And 54:20 54 minutes, 20 seconds I say it's a perfect one to bring up because look at everything that we talk about today with Ryan Graves or David Fraver, the Tic Tac, the gimbal, all these different videos that come out, 54:29 54 minutes, 29 seconds you know, that, you know, I mean, heck, I've put out videos before from from military apparatus. Jeremy Corbell has put out videos from military apparatus 54:37 54 minutes, 37 seconds that show these, you know, uh, unbelievable sites that we can't explain. Whether it's instantaneous acceleration or the 54:43 54 minutes, 43 seconds Hellfire missile video that Eric Burlson put out during the congressional hearing, it bounces off the craft. the craft keeps going over the waters of out 54:52 54 minutes, 52 seconds in the Middle East. So I mean it's we the military aspect is something that we very much pay attention to today. So 55:00 55 minutes when you talk about US military uh equipment failing against this UFO truly 55:08 55 minutes, 8 seconds a UFO 50 years ago in Iran. I mean that's that's the perfect story to bring up and no one pays attention to that stuff. I mean honestly 55:17 55 minutes, 17 seconds it's sad. Well, [clears throat] and I'm glad you asked me to come on to kind of dig up these things, man, because it's so important. There's so many younger 55:24 55 minutes, 24 seconds people getting involved in eupfology. I used to be This is depressing. I had someone reach out to me the other day and they're like, "Yo, I've been listening to your show for 10 years. 55:34 55 minutes, 34 seconds Like, I I I saw you, you know, on t whatever." Like, that's always nice to hear. But what really stuck with me was 55:42 55 minutes, 42 seconds when they were like, "I remember when they considered you the young gun of eupfology." And I'm like, "You used to 55:49 55 minutes, 49 seconds be what? What?" [laughter] And it's true, man. Like I I'm I'm one of the I'm getting up to like kmagin 55:57 55 minutes, 57 seconds level at this point at this point in euphology. But it's also very exciting. 56:02 56 minutes, 2 seconds um so many younger and and there's people and we have people to thank like you like uh Chris Ramsey uh like Jesse 56:10 56 minutes, 10 seconds Michaels um these big channels and stuff who who have brought this topic to audiences that might not necessarily 56:19 56 minutes, 19 seconds have ever thought about them and that is so important like I mentioned those 20some year old girls in New York 56:26 56 minutes, 26 seconds talking about Bob Lazar that's exciting and it makes me feel like there is a future for this topic. But in order to 56:34 56 minutes, 34 seconds try to understand any of it, you got to look at the past. For every tic tac event in the 2000s, I guarantee you there was a tic tac event back in the 56:43 56 minutes, 43 seconds 50s. And there were. People think the term UAP is real. People were using UAP back in the 1950s. Man, like you have to 56:51 56 minutes, 51 seconds look at the past to understand the present and possibly moving forward in the future, especially with this topic. 56:57 56 minutes, 57 seconds And trust me, there is a million more cases we could talk about. 57:01 57 minutes, 1 second Yeah. Exactly right. And I appreciate that by the way uh on the compliment and same to you. Um and but you're you're 100% correct on that statement. We have 57:10 57 minutes, 10 seconds to remember the past which is why I'm actually really happy too that we got to do this today. I feel like it's kind of perfect timing to get this together and 57:16 57 minutes, 16 seconds to look at some of these past origins of eupfology because it does connect to what we're seeing now. And it also reminds people and not to get too 57:25 57 minutes, 25 seconds preachy on it, but it reminds people this isn't just like a thing that's been happening for a few years. It does go back I mean just if it goes way back 57:34 57 minutes, 34 seconds more than the 50s but if you just want to stop there I mean it goes back 70 80 90 over a hundred years just if you're 57:41 57 minutes, 41 seconds looking at the United States. So I mean don't don't even get us started on other areas and other times. 57:48 57 minutes, 48 seconds So there's so much to learn from the past and most of all I think the main thing to take away from these past stories is it's been going on for a 57:55 57 minutes, 55 seconds while. This isn't something that's just over the past few years. Um, great stuff, man. Like I said, I know we we we 58:03 58 minutes, 3 seconds could keep going on this, but just Yeah, great stuff. And actually, but but just real quick on that, too, with the diamond shaped craft, that reminds me of like the Calivine UFO, our friend, you 58:11 58 minutes, 11 seconds know, Nick Pope, uh, God rest his soul, that was one of his main cases, uh, Calvine, which I believe was the late 80s, early 90s. Same type of, you know, 58:20 58 minutes, 20 seconds that diamond shaped craft. And just to point to again how deep this stuff goes and how long it's been investigated. And if you don't case, look into it. 58:29 58 minutes, 29 seconds I got a funny story about the Kelvin one if you want me to tell it really quick. Let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. It's up to you, man. Yeah, let's go for it. 58:36 58 minutes, 36 seconds I have a weird before we're done, but yeah, let's do this. [laughter] Can you tell I'm trying to avoid the wrestling talk? No, I'm just kidding. 58:44 58 minutes, 44 seconds That's going to be another hour. 58:46 58 minutes, 46 seconds Oh, I know. So, the Kelvine case, you know, uh James Fox covered this case in 58:53 58 minutes, 53 seconds the program, his um newer documentary, and when he was filming for that section of the documentary, he I live in 59:02 59 minutes, 2 seconds Scotland, and he was like, "Hey, what are you what are you doing? You want to come to Calvine, Scotland with me?" What? Yes. 59:10 59 minutes, 10 seconds Yeah, man. He's like, "Yeah, I'm going to be meeting up with the press officer who was the one who interviewed the the witnesses 59:18 59 minutes, 18 seconds slashphotographers of the now famous Calvine UFO photo." Um, 1990, these two 59:25 59 minutes, 25 seconds photographers hiking the hills took a picture of a diamond-shaped craft. Um, the photo had never been seen in the 59:33 59 minutes, 33 seconds public until like a couple years ago. It was locked in someone's desk for 30 plus years. And uh that was Craig Lindsay, 59:40 59 minutes, 40 seconds the press officer, and he went up to Calvine with James Fox and I. And we hiked up to where we believe was the location of the actual Calvine photo. 59:51 59 minutes, 51 seconds And dude, I it was crazy. Like, we were able to triangulate everything down to the exact trees that overhung in that 59:59 59 minutes, 59 seconds famous photo. We found the fence posts, everything matched, and it was crazy. We 1:00:06 1 hour, 6 seconds felt like we were in a living like we were living in the past of what these two photographers had taken. What that 1:00:14 1 hour, 14 seconds object is or was, we may never know. But I can tell you this, a lot of the debunks on that photo, I believe 1:00:23 1 hour, 23 seconds personally we were able to debunk those debunks. You know, there was one that this craft was like an island and the 1:00:31 1 hour, 31 seconds reflection was in the water and there there's a Harrier jet that was following this object. People think it was just a fisherman in the water. There's no water 1:00:40 1 hour, 40 seconds within a 100 miles, okay, of this hill. I can guarantee you that. 1:00:44 1 hour, 44 seconds Um, but I don't know. I don't know what the object was. Again, we may never know. Um, but we do believe that we 1:00:51 1 hour, 51 seconds found it. And now James has found the name of one of the photographers. So I'm like now going I keep going back to like 1:00:59 1 hour, 59 seconds Pit Locker which is right outside Kelvin and being like anyone heard from this guy like we need to find him. We need to find the photographers. So another case 1:01:08 1 hour, 1 minute, 8 seconds people should definitely check out. And yes, the late Nick Pope uh looked heavily into this and when that photo came to light a couple years ago, he was 1:01:16 1 hour, 1 minute, 16 seconds like finally Yeah, finally people are going to see what I had hanging on the wall at the MOD. That's right. For so long. Yeah. Yeah. 1:01:24 1 hour, 1 minute, 24 seconds That's right. No, it's it's Yeah. Again, it's actually pretty cool that uh it's still going on. I didn't know that you guys were still investigating that. So, 1:01:32 1 hour, 1 minute, 32 seconds the the if James Fox is included in something, dude, it's never done. And and I mean that in the best way. He 1:01:40 1 hour, 1 minute, 40 seconds does not let up. And every thread you see in his movies continue. I mean, Farin is another prime example. That's 1:01:48 1 hour, 1 minute, 48 seconds right. I he's been back in Brazil four times after that press club event he just did or something like that and he's going back 1:01:55 1 hour, 1 minute, 55 seconds again because the case is unfolding and again I think that's what's most exciting. 1:02:01 1 hour, 2 minutes, 1 second So much happens in real time and we just do our best to keep up with it. Um it's hard. Yeah, [laughter] it is. But we we try. So before we're 1:02:09 1 hour, 2 minutes, 9 seconds done here, Ryan, why am I bringing up wrestling? Right. So here a little bit of a backstory here. Um and yes, I saved this for last of course. I had Kelly 1:02:17 1 hour, 2 minutes, 17 seconds Chase on here um give or take maybe four or five months ago, somewhere in there, maybe even six months ago. And at the 1:02:25 1 hour, 2 minutes, 25 seconds end of it, I it might have been even after we were done, like off the air, so to speak, and wrestling came up somehow. 1:02:32 1 hour, 2 minutes, 32 seconds And she's like, I I said to her, I'm like, I think I'm one of the only like, you know, wrestling nerds in this space of of eupfology where that's just, you know, it's been one of those things ever 1:02:40 1 hour, 2 minutes, 40 seconds since I was a kid. It's a passion of mine. I love the storytelling. I love the characters. I love the drama. And she's like, "Oh, you gotta talk to Ryan 1:02:48 1 hour, 2 minutes, 48 seconds Sprag about that." I'm like, "Really?" [laughter] Like, that was her first. She got all excited. She's like, "You got you gotta talk to Ryan, Kelly." 1:02:55 1 hour, 2 minutes, 55 seconds Okay, cool. I I I will one of these days. And so now here you are. You're on UAP. So, how did you get into wrestling? 1:03:03 1 hour, 3 minutes, 3 seconds And what is what is your connection to the wrestling world now? 1:03:07 1 hour, 3 minutes, 7 seconds Yeah. I mean, again, same as you. I've always been uh I was huge during the Attitude era. Um, for your audience who 1:03:15 1 hour, 3 minutes, 15 seconds doesn't know, that was like the 90s up until like the early 2000s. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Undertaker, Mankind, all 1:03:22 1 hour, 3 minutes, 22 seconds those The Rock, all those iconic people um that have transcended wrestling. Um, but yeah, I was I I remember the first 1:03:30 1 hour, 3 minutes, 30 seconds time I saw wrestling, I went to a friend's house and he was watching like WCW Thunder or something like that. 1:03:38 1 hour, 3 minutes, 38 seconds I'm like, "What is this crap? you got a guy dressed as like Subzero from Mortal Kombat and I'm like this is so dumb and 1:03:47 1 hour, 3 minutes, 47 seconds I would make fun of him and then like every Thursday or whatever it was when I we'd you know we'd play we'd shoot hoops 1:03:54 1 hour, 3 minutes, 54 seconds outside and then go in and be like I got to watch wrestling. I'm like okay time for me to leave. But then each Thursday I kept staying a little longer and a 1:04:03 1 hour, 4 minutes, 3 seconds little longer and I started getting really into the the characters and the stories and I'm like whoa I'm like all right man I'm in like WCW I'm in. He's 1:04:12 1 hour, 4 minutes, 12 seconds like hold up you're not going to believe this but there's another company that does it twice a week too. And I'm like what? And then that's when I got hooked 1:04:21 1 hour, 4 minutes, 21 seconds on uh on WWE and I just I loved it. And then all my friends got involved and um 1:04:28 1 hour, 4 minutes, 28 seconds it was something that would bring me and my friends together every week. We'd rent the pay-per-views, we'd, you know, we'd get the t-shirts, we'd go to the 1:04:36 1 hour, 4 minutes, 36 seconds live events in um Syracuse, New York, where I'm originally from, and uh see the house shows. And and then I'd eventually start traveling up to like 1:04:45 1 hour, 4 minutes, 45 seconds Albany, New York, where Smackdown and Raw were being taped. And uh my dad, God bless him, would drive me and go with 1:04:52 1 hour, 4 minutes, 52 seconds me. And um but yeah, dude, just like most people, like my interest ebbed and flowed. I kind of gave it up for 25 plus 1:05:01 1 hour, 5 minutes, 1 second years and then uh Yeah. Yeah. I'd say back when Peacock started putting all the old stuff on Okay. on television in the States, I was 1:05:10 1 hour, 5 minutes, 10 seconds it it just the nostalgia bomb hit me so hard. And I watched everything from like the early 80s up till modern 1:05:20 1 hour, 5 minutes, 20 seconds day. and one of my best buds in New York uh we discovered that we were both closeted 1:05:26 1 hour, 5 minutes, 26 seconds WWE fans and uh we started a podcast and I did almost a hundred episodes of a wrestling podcast. Oh, that's awesome. 1:05:33 1 hour, 5 minutes, 33 seconds Which I know you've had experience with too. 1:05:36 1 hour, 5 minutes, 36 seconds Yeah, that's that's right. Yeah, kind of similar. That's true. Yeah. I mean, I was I was uh telling you before we started that actually that's how I got 1:05:43 1 hour, 5 minutes, 43 seconds my start in radio. I mean, I came into radio because I I am in South Florida as a radio host and and producer and that's 1:05:51 1 hour, 5 minutes, 51 seconds kind of what's, you know, allows me to do UAP and now UAP kind of became the main thing. So, this this kind of took over uh my my other, you know, job 1:06:00 1 hour, 6 minutes titles, if you will, uh, within my my radio career here in South Florida. But, I started as just like a sports intern. 1:06:06 1 hour, 6 minutes, 6 seconds That was my my foot in the door. And my first shot at on air was a wrestling show. It was I I was asked by our 1:06:15 1 hour, 6 minutes, 15 seconds program director um at the time, well, hey, look, if you want to do a show, then you got to produce it. You got to come up with the content. You got to come up with the clock. You got to do 1:06:23 1 hour, 6 minutes, 23 seconds everything yourself. Learn how to run the board. Everything. Okay, fine. Sure. Sure. Deal. My my plan. 1:06:30 1 hour, 6 minutes, 30 seconds And that's how I learned everything. And they said, you know, you do the show you want to do. We'll put you on Saturday nights on our AM station. Sure. Fine. 1:06:37 1 hour, 6 minutes, 37 seconds Five people are going to hear it, but I don't care. 1:06:40 1 hour, 6 minutes, 40 seconds That's five more people. That's five, right? And that's that's how I looked at it and it was a wrestling show. I called it the squared circle and I I spoke 1:06:49 1 hour, 6 minutes, 49 seconds about WWE was that you there was no more WCW um at that point. It's just you know WWE what was going on everything and 1:06:56 1 hour, 6 minutes, 56 seconds yeah man it's the same thing. I grew up on it. I kind of hit that lola as well from about like 2002 to 2012. I kind of 1:07:04 1 hour, 7 minutes, 4 seconds kept up with it, but I wasn't watching every week. And then I went to WrestleMania in Miami uh with John Cena versus The Rock. 1:07:12 1 hour, 7 minutes, 12 seconds Cena. Yep. 1:07:13 1 hour, 7 minutes, 13 seconds Yes. And that I was like I got tickets because I heard Wrestlemania was coming to South Florida and I wanted to see The Rock again and I knew about John Cena and I got tickets for my brother and I. 1:07:23 1 hour, 7 minutes, 23 seconds I'm like, well, if I'm going to go to Wrestlemania, I got to start watching the show again. And I've been watching consistently ever since 2012. And that ended up being one of the greatest Wrestlemanias of all time. 1:07:33 1 hour, 7 minutes, 33 seconds Right. It's it's just it's just so much fun, man. And now it's generational, too. And I actually draw a lot of 1:07:40 1 hour, 7 minutes, 40 seconds comparisons, and I'm sorry if we've lost anybody, but this is fun for us. I I I actually draw a lot of comparisons to 1:07:47 1 hour, 7 minutes, 47 seconds the UFO community to and the wrestling community, for sure. 1:07:52 1 hour, 7 minutes, 52 seconds You know what I mean? Because sometimes both are kind of looked at as like these these niche communities. They're very 1:08:00 1 hour, 8 minutes close-knit. They're very passionate about the topic and I kind of see a lot of similarities in those. Right. 1:08:08 1 hour, 8 minutes, 8 seconds That's the perfect word, passionate. I mean, that's why I love the UFO community. We can bash it all we want and we can argue on Twitter and and all 1:08:16 1 hour, 8 minutes, 16 seconds that stuff, but at the end of the day, like we're all here for a reason. We have found our our tribe. We found people who are weird and embrace these 1:08:25 1 hour, 8 minutes, 25 seconds things. And it's the same with wrestling. Like, I'll give my age away. 1:08:29 1 hour, 8 minutes, 29 seconds I'm 41 and I'm watching men in their underwear like fight over a fake title 1:08:35 1 hour, 8 minutes, 35 seconds belt and but like I love it and also it's like an escape when and and you 1:08:43 1 hour, 8 minutes, 43 seconds know I live breathe and sleep UFOs and I love it don't get me wrong but I need that pallet cleanser and for me it's the male soap opera which is 1:08:52 1 hour, 8 minutes, 52 seconds wrestling and it's the stories and it's there's I I hate to admit this but there are times I fast forward through the matches because I just want to see the 1:09:00 1 hour, 9 minutes story lines play out or hear the the next pipe bomb by CM Punk or something like that. [laughter] So true. 1:09:07 1 hour, 9 minutes, 7 seconds I love it, dude. I love it. And I like you said, Monday Night Raw is on tonight as we're recording this. I'll be watching that. Wrestlemania's this upcoming weekend. You bet your butt. 1:09:16 1 hour, 9 minutes, 16 seconds I'll be watching that. I watched AEW Dynasty yesterday. So yeah, I'm still in it. And uh you're so right though. It's such a community thing. 1:09:26 1 hour, 9 minutes, 26 seconds Like I I I can see the wrestlers also in the UFO community like the Stephen Greer is the Undertaker, the Richard Dolan is 1:09:36 1 hour, 9 minutes, 36 seconds the Cody Rhodess or [laughter] you know what I mean? Yes, that's right. 1:09:40 1 hour, 9 minutes, 40 seconds Who would they be? That's right. If we drew the match that's 1:09:44 1 hour, 9 minutes, 44 seconds [laughter] 1:09:45 1 hour, 9 minutes, 45 seconds Oh, that's good. Oh, it's it's so true. 1:09:46 1 hour, 9 minutes, 46 seconds And it's but it is that's what makes it fun. The escapism is another thing, right? cuz we're both I mean head deep in I mean like like neck deep buried up 1:09:56 1 hour, 9 minutes, 56 seconds to our neck in the UFO topic and how much we get into it and the interviews and the the the the investigations and the time we put into it. And for me it 1:10:03 1 hour, 10 minutes, 3 seconds is that escapism where on a Monday night or Friday night I could sit down with my kids and again a generational thing. We met Hulk Hogan together uh back in 1:10:12 1 hour, 10 minutes, 12 seconds November of last year and it's then he ends up passing away a few few months later and I had never met him. So, it was like one of those things where I got 1:10:20 1 hour, 10 minutes, 20 seconds to meet Hulk Hogan, one of my like, you know, childhood idols with my kids at the same time. And there are very few things that you can do that with. You 1:10:28 1 hour, 10 minutes, 28 seconds know, sports is one of those things when it comes to different athletes and your favorite team. Um, but it is it's like, you know, I put down my phone, we watch the stories, we watch Roman Reigns and 1:10:37 1 hour, 10 minutes, 37 seconds CM Punk and Cody Cody Rhodess and Randy Orton, and it's just it's a lot of fun. 1:10:41 1 hour, 10 minutes, 41 seconds Aren't you on one of the shows with Chris Jericho? He's a legendary wrestler for people who don't know. Yeah. Then you you go on there is a connection to this. It's not just us waxing poetic about wrestling. 1:10:50 1 hour, 10 minutes, 50 seconds Yeah. 1:10:50 1 hour, 10 minutes, 50 seconds There is a connection that Chris Jericho is a famous he's a Hall of Fame soon to be Hall of Famer. Whenever he decides to retire, one of the great wrestlers of 1:10:58 1 hour, 10 minutes, 58 seconds all time, he has a podcast, Talkis Jericho, I believe. And he brings you on to talk about UFOs, right? 1:11:05 1 hour, 11 minutes, 5 seconds I am kind of his resident euphologist. 1:11:08 1 hour, 11 minutes, 8 seconds Yeah. Um Chris Jericho, like you mentioned, future Hall of Famer, super super nice guy. Um he he is an experiencer. 1:11:18 1 hour, 11 minutes, 18 seconds He has had missing time experiences really after having seen strange things. So I didn't know that. 1:11:25 1 hour, 11 minutes, 25 seconds And you will see if you listen to his show, he has paranormal investigators on he has um uh cryptozoolologists on his 1:11:33 1 hour, 11 minutes, 33 seconds show. But when it comes to UFOs and he wants like kind of the debrief on what's going on in that world, um I'm insanely 1:11:41 1 hour, 11 minutes, 41 seconds honored that uh he somehow randomly found me online and whenever he needs that refresher course, I come on. I I 1:11:49 1 hour, 11 minutes, 49 seconds was just on a couple weeks ago. I think it'll drop sometime soon. I don't know how the show works with that. But um yeah, we're talking about all the latest 1:11:57 1 hour, 11 minutes, 57 seconds congressional hearings and the legacy programs and and all of that stuff, but yeah, he is. 1:12:02 1 hour, 12 minutes, 2 seconds And many wrestlers are I mean, like, you know, with athletes, they travel so much. Musicians, they're on the road 1:12:11 1 hour, 12 minutes, 11 seconds or they're in planes. Look at that country singer who just had the the orb, right? That Casey M, right? They see 1:12:19 1 hour, 12 minutes, 19 seconds stuff because they travel so much and they're they're in different places. So, um Chris Jericho is one of them. Uh I 1:12:27 1 hour, 12 minutes, 27 seconds spoke to um Lash Laroo who was a big wrestler back in the early 2000s. Yeah. 1:12:32 1 hour, 12 minutes, 32 seconds And he's a abductee. [clears throat] So, I mean, dude, it's crazy. It's crazy. Maven, we had Maven on our podcast at one point. 1:12:41 1 hour, 12 minutes, 41 seconds He's seen weird stuff when he was out on the road with WWE. So, like Wow. 1:12:46 1 hour, 12 minutes, 46 seconds Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. the connections that we can make between the wrestling world and the UFO world. And I'm for every one of those wrestlers, 1:12:54 1 hour, 12 minutes, 54 seconds I'm sure there's hundreds who have also had experiences like that. 1:12:57 1 hour, 12 minutes, 57 seconds Yeah, that's something. See, we it wasn't that far off topic to bring it all that all together. It's it's a beautiful thing and that must have been a really 1:13:05 1 hour, 13 minutes, 5 seconds cool full full circle moment for you where you come up on wrestling and now you're on Chris Jericho, this Hall of Fame wrestler, 1:13:12 1 hour, 13 minutes, 12 seconds and you're talking about UFOs on his podcast. 1:13:15 1 hour, 13 minutes, 15 seconds So nervous. I get it and like [laughter] he pops up on the screen and I'm like I don't know anything about UFOs at this 1:13:24 1 hour, 13 minutes, 24 seconds moment in time. Like it was it was crazy. That's so cool, man. 1:13:28 1 hour, 13 minutes, 28 seconds Well, this has been so much fun. Before we go, I'd be remiss if I at least didn't ask you your predictions for the Wrestlemania main events then on on this 1:13:36 1 hour, 13 minutes, 36 seconds since we're on the topic. Um, very last thing then, Cody Rhodess and Randy Orton, who you got on Saturday night and Sunday night 1:13:43 1 hour, 13 minutes, 43 seconds we have CM Punk and Roman Reigns. Where do you where do you think the story goes with these? 1:13:49 1 hour, 13 minutes, 49 seconds So, I think I don't like what's going on with the Pat McAfee stuff that's been inserted into the Cody 1:13:57 1 hour, 13 minutes, 57 seconds Rhodess and Randy Orton stuff. So, like of course I'm looking forward to however it unfolds. 1:14:03 1 hour, 14 minutes, 3 seconds Um, and I can complain all I want about Pat McAfee getting involved in wrestling, but at the end of the day, like he's an entertainer. He makes a 1:14:11 1 hour, 14 minutes, 11 seconds great heel. I have a feeling they have a plan for that and they know how upset and angry people were going to get. Um, 1:14:19 1 hour, 14 minutes, 19 seconds so I I got Randy Orton winning. 1:14:24 1 hour, 14 minutes, 24 seconds I think I I think I Yeah, I think it's about time. And I think it's about time Cody turns heel. We've all been thinking it for a while. We've all kind of wanted 1:14:32 1 hour, 14 minutes, 32 seconds it. You're you're hearing more booze in the audience when Cody's showing up. He knows it and I think he's smart enough to know 1:14:40 1 hour, 14 minutes, 40 seconds when that turn should happen and they're clearly being very uh strategic about that. So, I think 1:14:48 1 hour, 14 minutes, 48 seconds it's time I think it's time for Randy to get his uh his world record as it were. And um yeah, so there there's that one. 1:14:55 1 hour, 14 minutes, 55 seconds CM Punk and Roman, man, I don't know. I It is the biggest coin flip I've ever had for a main event. Um I don't know. What about you? 1:15:05 1 hour, 15 minutes, 5 seconds I kind I'm with you, man. It's like I I my son has asked me like a couple of times, who do you think is going to win, Dad? And one day I'll tell him CM Punk, 1:15:13 1 hour, 15 minutes, 13 seconds another day it's Roman Reigns. I don't know where they're going to go with this on the story. Like I feel like you can make an argument for both where CM Punk 1:15:19 1 hour, 15 minutes, 19 seconds you keep him as the guy and maybe maybe have Roman Reigns continue to be the guy that's you know, you continue to build that storyline kind of like I know I'm 1:15:28 1 hour, 15 minutes, 28 seconds getting deep into the weeds in wrestling, but kind of like how they did with Wrestlemania 39 and 40 where Cody lost to Roman. Everyone's disappointed, 1:15:35 1 hour, 15 minutes, 35 seconds but it continued. It gave them an opportunity to continue to build that story into next year's Wrestlemania. And it was one of the greatest moments in wrestling history where where Cody won 1:15:43 1 hour, 15 minutes, 43 seconds that and you had like the whole wrestling history of the pantheon come out for that one match. The Avengers assembled. 1:15:50 1 hour, 15 minutes, 50 seconds It was That's exactly right. So, part of me thinks they can go that route if Roman Reigns loses. The other part of me just thinks it's Roman Reigns. They want 1:15:57 1 hour, 15 minutes, 57 seconds him to be champion again, so he's going to win. So, I'm I'm kind of waffling between the two. 1:16:03 1 hour, 16 minutes, 3 seconds Yeah. I don't know. And that's a good thing. Like it leaves us guessing and that's what they want and that's good 1:16:09 1 hour, 16 minutes, 9 seconds storytelling. So again, I I love it as a playwright. Like I I just I love these dramas that just so happen to have 1:16:18 1 hour, 16 minutes, 18 seconds wrestling matches in between them. I guess I guess I'll watch the matches. 1:16:23 1 hour, 16 minutes, 23 seconds That's exactly [laughter] right. Ryan, I I have to say this has probably been my dream show to mix UFOs and wrestling, two of my great passions together. and I 1:16:32 1 hour, 16 minutes, 32 seconds don't know if I can do it with anybody else but you. So, I appreciate all the time, man, for coming on here, for doing this. The the conversation has been for 1:16:40 1 hour, 16 minutes, 40 seconds me fascinating, uh, incredible, fantastic to be able to go over all these details with you and just get into the weeds on all this stuff and really 1:16:47 1 hour, 16 minutes, 47 seconds kind of dig into some of these, you know, maybe forgot in some cases these origin stories of modern day eupfology and then to mix wrestling with it. Um, 1:16:56 1 hour, 16 minutes, 56 seconds it's been awesome, man. I hope we can talk again in in the future as well. 1:17:00 1 hour, 17 minutes It's been a pleasure, man. Like I said, keep up the good work and we need everyone all hands on deck with this topic. So, no, it was a true pleasure 1:17:09 1 hour, 17 minutes, 9 seconds and I don't get to talk wrestling anymore on my own podcast. So, this was a dream come true for me, Chief. So, thank you so much. 1:17:15 1 hour, 17 minutes, 15 seconds I love it, man. Awesome. Oh, where can everybody find you? How can they follow what you're doing real quick? 1:17:20 1 hour, 17 minutes, 20 seconds Oh, of anywhere you get your show, you could find me on all the podcasting platforms. Um, I do weekly live streams 1:17:27 1 hour, 17 minutes, 27 seconds over on YouTube where I break down all the latest UFO news. So, just type in somewhere in the skies. That's the name of my show. Um, and yeah, if you want to 1:17:36 1 hour, 17 minutes, 36 seconds learn more about what I do, somewhereinthes.com is where all of that is at. And um, yeah. Yeah, you can find me. I'm out there too much. 1:17:46 1 hour, 17 minutes, 46 seconds Just just write it in there. You'll find the books, podcast, the TV appearances. 1:17:50 1 hour, 17 minutes, 50 seconds Uh, Ryan Sprag again. Thanks. Thanks a lot, man. and look forward to talking again soon right here on UAP. Thanks, buddy. Thank you.