Title: Psyched about UFOs with guest Dr. Greg Little
Source video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cf_jfiGZHM
Transcript supplied by UAPRAD in Dr tim videos up to 2608.docx

All right. Welcome everybody to Psyched About UFOs.
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I'm Dr. Tim Bighgam and I'm going to be joined here in just a couple minutes with our special guest today, Dr. Greg
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Little. And uh we're here to continue our our ongoing discussions about uh UFOs from a perspective of human
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psychology. Uh we take a curious yet critical psychosocially informed approach to uh to UFO as as modern myth
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and uh and modern mystery. So we're going to have a couple folks come on the panel today and have uh Dr. Dr. Greg Little join us. A little bit about me
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first. Like I said, my name is Dr. Tim Bighgam. Um, my background is in psychology. I have a doctorate degree in psychology from the University of
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Georgia. I'm a former uh assistant professor of psychology. Uh, currently work as a clinical manager at a um,
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mental health, trauma, and substance abuse recovery facility in the American Southwest. Uh my interest in UFOs goes
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way back uh over 30 years now when uh I spent my early years in the uh northwest Florida panhandle area during uh a wave
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of UFO sightings and uh some national uh interest in the topic in that area, the Gulf Breeze UFO sightings that started
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in 1987. So, uh, I lived right in that area at the time and eventually, uh, joined in some of the sky watches and
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saw my own my own version of, uh, of, uh, the Gulf Breeze UFO. Um, eventually, um, got to know Greg, as we we'll talk a
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little bit about today, as well as, uh, Jim Mosley and, um, they were very much, um, very much kind to me as I started
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out in the UFO field, always encouraging me along the way. Um, so, um, in a moment here, I'm going to bring on Greg.
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He's got such a a a wide background that there's almost so much it would take me a huge amount of time just to to cover
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everything. But um Greg is um geez Greg's done a lot of work his his uh his um graduate school work some of which was in psychopharmarmacology.
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Uh he does I know he he uh helped manage mental health at the prison there in uh in Tennessee. Uh he's written books on
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UFOs on Indian Native American mounds in uh in the United States. uh he was associated with the Edgar Casey Foundation. Um just a lot of stuff. Um
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and I know he had some experiences with uh with Golf Breeze as well. So I'm going to add add Greg on. Hey Greg.
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Hi Tim. Uh can you hear me? Okay.
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Yeah, I can. We may have uh somebody else jump on the panel today just just so you know. But how you doing today? Good to good to see you.
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I'm doing fine. Good to see you, too. And my god, man. When did we first meet? What year was it?
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It it's been I think 32 years. I I counted it up the other day. So it's been Yeah, it is right at about 1990. Yeah.
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Wow. Wow. Okay. That is a long time ago.
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It feels like a long time ago. Seems like forever ago. Another lifetime.
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It does. Indeed. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just thinking as I introduced you how much uh you've got such an amazing amazing history and so many adventures
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and you kind of you kind of got an Indiana Jones thing going. I don't know if you're familiar with Jeff Knox. He's a bit of a UFO historian that's a friend
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of mine from Twitter. I'm I'm going to bring him on if you don't mind. And Okay, by all means. Sure. Yeah. Hey, Jeff. Welcome. Hey, how's it going?
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Come on in, man. Doing well. Doing well. I'm Greg. Glad to meet you. Yep.
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We were just uh talking a little bit about about uh Greg's background and and I guess I was going to I mentioned a few things that I know from from all the work Greg's done, but how we connected
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was was Golf Breeze. I thought that could be kind of a good place to start the discussion because you you had uh been there before the the sightings and
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tell me a little bit about your history again with how that I honestly don't remember the first time we went to Gulf Breeze. I do know that
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back in uh I believe it was 1989. It was during the time that Bubba was appearing almost every night and I think it
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appeared nine out of 10 nights or 10 out of 11, I don't remember. Uh, and my wife and I went there. Uh, there were I
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counted the people. I believe exactly it was 105 people that were in the park.
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Um, oh man. Uh, people selling books out of their trunk. Uh, it it was quite a show.
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And but some guy came up to me while we were there and he actually pointed and he said, "Look out there." He said, "You're going to you'll see it." And
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they knew what time it was going to show. M they knew how long it was going to last
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and the guy stood there. I mean he didn't know me and I was you know I'd written a UFO book but so what a lot of people wrote UFO books then the book following up on Carl Young.
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Uh and u he told us how it was going to turn color and get fuzzy around the edges and then kind of pop out and then
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he said in so many seconds it's going to fade and it did. Uh, and I was told that a crew, a TV and film crew from Japan
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was there the night before and they had even more people there that night.
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Uh, and uh, Ed was there selling his book. Uh, of course. Yeah.
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And, uh, it was, uh, it it appeared to me to be staged and I I immediately felt like this is a research
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study being done. And I had worked I think you you know this I had worked uh for two years on a research study with the office of naval research in Pensacola.
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Okay.
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Uh and I was a graduate student at the time. Uh I never knew exactly what the study was for. They told us uh when we
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came on as graduate assistants what it was for. And we traveled around the country to uh Navy Navy bases mainly naval air stations and we tested pilots.
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Uh we took them into a Faraday room uh that was also shielded with sound and they did it we did a hearing test first
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using the equipment on the base and then we had this case this metal case about
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as big as a about a mediumsiz u uh suitcase and we opened it up. It had wires and so on and we attached it to
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this device. It was a cone about this long. Uh and literally a cone came to a point. Okay.
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And they held that up to the side of their head. Uh and it put out high frequency signals.
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Uh and they had a little button that they pushed when they could hear it or sense it or whatever.
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We never saw any of the data. It went into the machine that we carried. We were in a state car, state of Tennessee car when we did this. Uh and I was a
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semi-hippie at the time. I mean, I was I had long hair and mushroom t-shirts.
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The guy that I was with had an anxiety disorder. He had worked on it one year before me.
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Uh, but while I I I had talked to uh some of the research assistants at the ONR, Office Naval Research
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headquarters that was in Pensacola at the time. And they were all low-level guys like I was. I'm just a graduate student. I didn't know anything. Yeah.
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Uh and by that time I had been doing some research with animals and drugs. Uh and we called a lot of that. I wonder
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what would happen if right we got a lot of drugs from the feds. Actually the DEA sent drugs to uh
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the psychopharmarmacologist who was leading the research. We had a safe and I mean it was really very wellkept. Uh but we got all sorts of drugs.
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Everything from LSD to PCP.
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uh you name it, we got it all. And the I wonder what if research was done when we'd inject the rats with the drug and
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just see what happened because with a lot of it, that's how you start. You want to know what is what is it going to do?
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And I told them some of that and they said, "Yeah, we do a lot of that, too." And I said, "Well, is it do you just decide you're going to do it?" And they said, "Yeah." Uh somebody
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just comes up with an idea and we do it and we follow up. And those were the words that went through my mind uh when I was standing in that uh park at Golf
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Breeze that somebody's here from the ONR. The light was seen near Eglund Air Force Base. Uh it was
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across that bridge. I got one picture of it. Uh and yeah, it started out as a red light and it was stationary in the sky.
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Uh it was pretty intense actually. Uh, and I I never knew exactly how far away it was, but I became convinced that was
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a uh military research study just to see how people would react. But that's the conclusion I came to.
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Yeah. And that I that was I think what uh what drew me to to your wonderful book originally. grand illusions I had read and I I had sort of independently
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come to a similar conclusion just from and you know there's of course like like most of this stuff a huge history behind it but Ed had taken his photographs of
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one purported object but then what people were seeing was was something different right and I'm showing it on the screen now it was a red light that
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when I saw it uh the one time I saw it it didn't have a steady it didn't seem like a consistent brightness it was almost flickering like a some kind of
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pyrochnic or or something yeah the question would, you know, could Ed have figured out a way to to do that from the ground with with supports or I
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yeah, it's difficult to think that anybody other than than a military, you know, kind of organization could have been able to do that so consistently.
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But well, Ed Ed was in the park when it when it went on and this was at a distance, but the guy I don't know who the guy was
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that stood there and talked to us, but he knew exactly when it was going to start uh and he knew how long it was going to last and what it was going to
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do. And I never thought that it was like a flare or something that was pyrochnic.
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It appeared to me to be something different.
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Uh not that. It didn't look alien. It looked unusual and unexpected, but it didn't look like it was alien at all.
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Uh and then I started digging into a lot of the research done uh by grants with
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the federal government. And part of it was uh all the work that Michael Perszinger was doing at Laurentian University.
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Uh Persinger was you know focused electromagnetic small electromagnetic fields of different frequencies and different power in different areas of
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the brain. And as he did this he could create UFO experiences experiences of like meeting God or meeting angels
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uh out of body experiences. and it varied based upon the area of the brain, the power and the frequency of the
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fields. Uh so then I started looking at research that the government was doing
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pulling the research out of the uh government archives and the government
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repository libraries. A lot of major universities are those and Memphis state at the now University of Memphis, but Memphis State happened to have a
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government repository library and they didn't have an index. You know, you back then you used index cards. They didn't have that, but they had all these
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journals that were about areas of plasmas, electromagnetics, a lot of physics
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journals and so on. And so I just got in the habit, my wife and I spent enormous amounts of times in libraries, but I
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would pull them out and just leaf through and look at the titles first and then the title I'd read the article. Some of them I would copy.
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Uh and I I realized, okay, they're already doing this was actually around uh
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was about ' 89 I started doing this in 90 and 91. I started looking at all this government research and I did a an interview with Remy Shioalier.
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I remember Remy.
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Yeah. In a magazine uh and talked about all the studies that we had found that my wife and I had found and
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uh it appeared to me that they were doing electromagnetic research mainly to weaponize it. Uh that they were creating
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plasmas in the air. the plasmas if they turned them into dusty plasmas uh they would reflect radar
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because plasma itself would not really reflect radar unless it was dense. And if you make them really magnetic what
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happens is the plasma starts pulling in any particulate matter that's in the air and they're called dusty plasmas. And of
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course then they because they are they have a north and a south pole, they do begin rotating. If they rotate fast
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enough, they flatten out and look saucer-shaped. Uh that's not what I'm thinking all flying so-called flying
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saucers are. Of course, I don't believe in the extraterrestrial hypothesis, but there's a an asterisk that goes with that because
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I'm a skeptic about a lot of that. Uh but I found that the government was doing all of this research mainly the Navy.
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Uh I found they back in the 90s I found they had made several
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really weapons uh that were used for crowd control, mind control. They could beam. There's there's one that they
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still have now that that is used actively that can go out over a mile and it can literally say words in your head.
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You hear words spoken. Wow.
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Uh and uh that led me to think about spiritual and religious things where people hear voices.
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Yeah. Sure. And of course, you know, I'm big in the electromagnetic explanation of the whole UFO phenomenon. I don't think that's the whole story. And when I
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say electromagnetic, I mean plasmas. And I noticed when I I put out a book with Andrew Collins called Origins of the
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Gods in 2023, I think it came out or 2022. And in it, I kind of summarized everything. Uh but
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I went back through the old books. In the 1984 book, The Archetype Experience, yeah, that's origins of the God. In the
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1983 book, I actually said or 84 book, I said that I believe plasmas were the
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explanation for the genuine UFOs. And I was shocked. I couldn't remember writing that. I knew I was looking at Persinger's research, but that's in the
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archetype experience. So, yeah, that's kind of a summary. But there's all kinds of weapons and and things that they've made. They can make your skin burn with
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it. Uh they can uh again, they can put flashes in, put words in your mind. Uh they can give you a headache. Um there's
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all kinds of things that this weaponization of EM fields does.
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Yeah. Yeah. And that that area in the northwest panhandle of Florida area is just seems to have been doing so much of
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that kind of research, right? of a variety of interesting things.
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Yeah, the government but the all those what I was going to say before about all these articles, none of the people that appeared to be
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doing the research studies, they all in these journals that would come out in these government journals, none of them knew what the whole object of the study was.
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All of them had a little piece. It was it was all it was all sent out peacemail. Like if you're going to create something and it has a whole bunch of moving parts.
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Yeah. So what they've done is they have given grants to an organization over here and another [clears throat] one over here and another one over here.
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None of them see the whole picture. So it's like each one of them has a piece of a puzzle, but none of them had the entire puzzle. And that's actually a
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smart thing to do if you want a clandestine uh sort of operation going on. Nothing illegal about it. And I'm not saying, you know,
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it was nefarious. Uh it's just it's a smart thing to do.
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Jeeoff, do you have anything? I have plenty of stuff here, but I want to give you an opportunity if you got anything on on G Breeze or or generally there or
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um Well, I just going to say that the problem with Persinger stuff is that it's it's one thing to put a helmet on
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you and have that highly focal focal, you know, energy focused at parts of your brain to recreate these kind of
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effects. extending that out to like the tectonic strain theory or the idea that like natural geological processes are
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releasing these electromagnetic waves that may be having similar effects on people's brains is a bit different and I don't think we can go that far with it.
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You're absolutely correct. I would agree with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah. I completely agree with you. Uh I had corresponded with Persinger some particularly in the late uh well in the late 80s because that man put out a lot
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of research. Uh but I can say that uh Persinger's research
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uh in part stimulated some of the things that the Navy did. For example,
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uh Persinger was able to uh make have people make choices when they were given
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a choice task. He could have them make the choice that he wanted u when they had these tasks. And we're
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talking about undergraduate students, basically freshman, you know, in in psychology to get extra credit.
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Uh the other thing that he was able to do, and this this is the one that led me down the road to all the EM stuff because I don't believe the Navyy's not
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out there creating these uh UFO experiences. And by that I mean to the general public and like abduction
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experiences. This is a slightly different thing going on. although I believe it has to do with plasmas and the electromagnetic field of the
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plasmas. Uh but Persinger was able to put words in their head and that was pretty shocking to me. That was one of the last things that he did
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before he died and he published several articles on it and he could literally beam the words and they would hear the
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words being said through the electromagnetic stimulation uh I assume of the auditory cortex. I
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can't remember that, but I'm pretty sure that it was somewhere in the auditory cortex where he did it.
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Uh, and so I believe Go ahead. Sorry.
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Is this like how there's current technology where like they can localize advertising like certain they can like focus advertising words in certain like
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people by focusing I think they use ultrasound or something. Yeah. So only people in a certain area can actually hear the words and sounds that are being like played or whatever. Is it a similar
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kind of thing? Well, Persinger did it the same way, you know, using his helmet, the God helmet thing. And actually, I have one of those. I bought
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I bought one of those from him years ago. Well, a long long time ago. I always wanted to get one of those. That's funny you say that.
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Well, you can have mine. I I'll ship it to you. All right.
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Uh, I'm not kidding. You can have it if you want. If you have old Windows, I have It's got an old Windows CD with it, and it needs that to run.
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Okay. All right.
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And I had Macs. Uh I did run it on a Windows but I really never really liked Windows operating systems. But anyway,
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uh so all this stuff all this stuff about plasmas, uh if you look at if you look at
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abduction experiences and uh a lot Native American experiences, I've worked a lot with
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Andrew Collins and I know a lot of the experiences that people have reported like in the UK and Europe, which I
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didn't know much about it till I really got working with Andrew, almost everything weird experience that they have where They interact with a
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being seemingly from another world. The being steps out of a ball of light.
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The the most credible ones that I've read, I don't there are some where, you know, a flying saucer lands and a and a
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Nordic woman walks out and, you know, says from I'm I'm from I'm from Jupiter, somewhere like that. [clears throat] Uh, and I've written a lot about those
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types of uh experiences that people have had. I don't necessarily think that people that, you know, the the
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contactees uh were all lying. Some of them clearly were huers, you know, and they were out for the money and the publicity, but
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they weren't all lying. They were saying what they uh experienced.
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Uh and I believe a lot of UFO abduction people are telling us what they perceived to occur, but I believe that they
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interacted with plasmas. Uh Andrew and I both came up with the same Andrew Collins and I came up with the same idea
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pretty much at the same time many many years decades ago. uh and the new research saying that plasmas
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uh have an appear to be intelligent and interactive and that if you they've allowed plasmas
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to be energized for a long enough period that as they create a spinning ball what
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they observe occurring inside of them is the formation of what looks like a double helix just like human DNA
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and then they split Just like just like our cells split and of course the name plasma came uh
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because of its relationship to human blood. Okay.
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This is all in this is in phys modern physics journals and I was shocked when I started reading this. My god how far they've come.
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So they've seen them split and then they talk about evolution taking over.
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There's all these things about life that evolution takes over and the weaker part of the plasma
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dies literally dissipates and dies and the stronger one survives and it then splits.
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And they say that it that they had they believe that if they let it go long enough that it would eventually show all
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of the signs that we have of intelligence. If you think about it, all we are are solidified. We're solidified
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energy. And if we live long enough, we start showing interaction and we start showing
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um we can evolve also. We do all the same things. And we're temporary
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manifestations of energy. That's all humans are. And that's what I I use the term T I M E to explain them. And it
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stands for temporal uh intrusions of intelligent
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manifesting energy. And I believe that they are plasmas.
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Uh and I believe that the plasmas that are generated by the earth become so powerful that they create a bubble of
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electromagnetic energy. And anybody that gets close enough
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[snorts]
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uh and this is similar to the vortices supposedly out out west and other areas.
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Maybe we'll talk about that. But I believe that people then I'll say interact because I'm going to
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back off something I've said prior to this. Uh but people have an experience based on their cultural expectations.
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Yeah. their fears, their belief system. Yeah.
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Some people experience a a very frightening thing. Others don't have a
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frightening thing. I believe Edgar Casey Edgar Casey had two experiences. what he
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what had been interpret he never called them angels but he had two experiences where a ball of light came down and a
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being emerged from it and that is what created the entire Edgar Casey story those two experiences huh
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Joon of Arc hers was a ball her the being she interacted with was a ball of light and a being within a ball of light
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and there are lots of others of these I've looked at the Native American stuff and it's always the same it's a ball of light and an ent entity in it. And the
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ball of light to me is a type of manifesting plasma.
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The only question I have, I'll say this one thing. I honestly at this point don't know if the plasma
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uh has intelligence the way we think or if it's if it's creating the experience the person has and interacting sort of
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mentally with them or if the person is inside this like bubble of energy
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and the their own mind their own brain and like I said all their expectations and so on and cultural beliefs are creating the exper experience.
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That's where I'm at with it. That's kind of the the sum total. I do not believe that what we're seeing are alien craft.
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Um the the one thing that makes me pause on that is Carl Sean. Uh back in 1963,
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Carl Sean wrote an article in the journal Space and Science. And in that Carl Sean said certainly he said it's an
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absolute certainty that life is elsewhere in the universe. And then he calculated the odds of them visiting Earth.
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26 minutes, 46 seconds
And what it said was that starting around 250,000 years ago, some advanced aliens probably began monitoring Earth.
26:58
26 minutes, 58 seconds
Doesn't mean that they were flying in a ship back and forth, but they had some sort of drone technology or whatever you want to call it.
27:04
27 minutes, 4 seconds
Yeah. and said that starting around 12,000 BC at the 10 end of the ice age they probably increased the number of
27:11
27 minutes, 11 seconds
times they visited. He also said to look in Mesopetamia in that area for their evidence and then
27:20
27 minutes, 20 seconds
he said the final thing was he estimated how many times they visited and it's 10,000 times. That's what he wrote.
27:28
27 minutes, 28 seconds
10,000 visits and that's not really a lot over 250,000 years. So you got to
27:35
27 minutes, 35 seconds
uh but that gives me pause because I really respect and still respect respected and still respect Carl Sean.
27:43
27 minutes, 43 seconds
So I suspect [clears throat] there might have been some and there might still be some going on but I don't think the beings that are being reported and the UFOs are u alien.
27:54
27 minutes, 54 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
27:56
27 minutes, 56 seconds
Yeah. Certainly there's a lot there with this is this has got to be this is the probably the second most
28:03
28 minutes, 3 seconds
unpopular other than you know it's all hoaxes and all nonsense. Yeah. This is the second most unpopular thing.
28:11
28 minutes, 11 seconds
Yeah.
28:12
28 minutes, 12 seconds
And it's also why I decided there's no reason to even talk about it anymore. Uh it may be that within the coming year or
28:20
28 minutes, 20 seconds
so uh the so-called disclosure movement will come out with some of this. That is my belief maybe. But I I've written in
28:29
28 minutes, 29 seconds
grand illusions the end of it said was that grand illusions was 1994 disclosure will never happen.
28:36
28 minutes, 36 seconds
It cannot happen. We've been promised that forever in this field happen and that's what I believe. Yeah.
28:45
28 minutes, 45 seconds
Yeah. Um a lot a lot there. I I I'm with you. I'm always curious as to, you know, that idea of would the would the plasma
28:54
28 minutes, 54 seconds
be leading to causing a hallucination or would it be spec, you know, obviously some of that is probably coming from the
29:02
29 minutes, 2 seconds
culture and like you say the fears and the of the witness, but to what degree does the stimulus have a
29:10
29 minutes, 10 seconds
you know, we're basically asking what's it doing and how does it work? I mean, yeah.
29:16
29 minutes, 16 seconds
Yeah. Uh, I've I've Have you heard me talk about Lou White Eagle's experience?
29:20
29 minutes, 20 seconds
It's in that book, uh, Origins of the Gods. The familiar Cheyenne Aerop Priest? No. Tell me. Tell us again.
29:28
29 minutes, 28 seconds
Well, he was it was a Cheyenne Aerop Priest who came to Memphis. He was one of the the the high Well, he was the highest level when he left. Uh, he died
29:37
29 minutes, 37 seconds
a few years ago. Uh, he was a shaman from the Cheyenne. He lived with my wife and I for 30 days with his family. And this was in 1988.
29:46
29 minutes, 46 seconds
and everything changed for me because of this. That's when I really deeply got into all the Indian mound stuff.
29:53
29 minutes, 53 seconds
But he came and stayed with us. He talked a whole lot. But one of the experiences that we had is that I was also in a little private practice at the
30:01
30 minutes, 1 second
time. And on a Sunday, remember he was here for 30 days. On a Sunday, I asked him if he wanted to go go with me to this office where I worked, the psychiatrist's office. [snorts] And I
30:10
30 minutes, 10 seconds
was going to do some insurance papers for an hour or so. So, he went with me.
30:14
30 minutes, 14 seconds
And in that office, we had a device called the Graham Potentializer.
30:19
30 minutes, 19 seconds
And the Graham Potentializer, they spelled like Graham cracker. You can't get them anymore. Uh because the the the FDA banned them because they thought they might cause cancer.
30:29
30 minutes, 29 seconds
But anyway, it was a um it's kind of like a bed, almost like a massage table. Okay. And the person would lay on it.
30:38
30 minutes, 38 seconds
Uh it created a bubble of an electromagnetic field around your body, a bubble. And you could change the frequencies and the strength.
30:48
30 minutes, 48 seconds
On one end you could put had a north pole and the other end you had a south pole. So you could move your put your head on one end or the other to determine what kind of experience you
30:56
30 minutes, 56 seconds
wanted to have. And then the thing had a motor in it and it rotated it in a big
31:03
31 minutes, 3 seconds
circle real slow. Every seven seconds was a rotation. And it was made like that to mimic the earth's um not well
31:13
31 minutes, 13 seconds
the electromagnetic field mimicked the u human resonance the earth's ambient electromagnetic field uh but the
31:21
31 minutes, 21 seconds
rotation was wave motion. It was supposed to mimic a typical ocean wave every seven seconds.
31:28
31 minutes, 28 seconds
So I asked Lou if he wanted to lay down on this thing and exp and just you know lay there and relax a bit and see what happens. So I went to another room. I
31:36
31 minutes, 36 seconds
started he laid down. and I started went to another room. Uh I was about halfway through an insurance form and he he came
31:42
31 minutes, 42 seconds
in the room and he was really um he was he was he looked shocking. He looked upset
31:50
31 minutes, 50 seconds
and I said, "What's up?" And he said and literally what he said is little blue people. I went, "What?" And he said,
31:58
31 minutes, 58 seconds
"Little blue people, little blue people are in the room." And I said, "What are you talking about, Lou?" And he said uh
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32 minutes, 6 seconds
he laid down and he said he became uh paralyzed and he could open his eyes and there
32:15
32 minutes, 15 seconds
were three big windows in this room where this device was and they there were no shades on them so he could look out
32:22
32 minutes, 22 seconds
and as he looked out he saw these little blue people and they he said they're about three and a half feet tall. They
32:30
32 minutes, 30 seconds
came up and they pressed against the window. He could see him pressing against it. And he said then they literally just molded through the walls
32:40
32 minutes, 40 seconds
and through the windows and he said there were several of them and they got around his body and they were looking at him and he was laying
32:48
32 minutes, 48 seconds
there parallel. He said he was terrified and then they started he said they took their fingers and started poking on his body a little
32:56
32 minutes, 56 seconds
and that broke the spell of the paralysis. He immediately got up, came into my office, and that's when he said,
33:04
33 minutes, 4 seconds
"Little blue people." So, of course, I got up right away, went in the office. Boy, I wanted to see the little blue people. I was sure. Yeah. But, of course, I didn't see anything.
33:13
33 minutes, 13 seconds
The machine, he didn't turn the machine off. So, it was still doing the rotation and so on.
33:18
33 minutes, 18 seconds
And so, all this was and electromagnetic field with this rotation. Uh, and later we talked about it a lot. I showed him
33:27
33 minutes, 27 seconds
um a cover of one of Whitley Strieber's books that had he said he said it looks sort of like that but he said it's different and I said well what do you
33:34
33 minutes, 34 seconds
think they were and he said they're the little people they're tricksters and of course that got me into a lot
33:42
33 minutes, 42 seconds
more of the Native American lore with the little people and tricksters and so on.
33:47
33 minutes, 47 seconds
Yeah. Uh so the magnetic fields I can tell you this I have interacted with other people who have been diagnosed
33:54
33 minutes, 54 seconds
with electromagnetic sensitivity which is a real diagnosis and they can have some odd experiences they report also.
34:04
34 minutes, 4 seconds
So that that's the best I can do with it uh in terms of do do generalized electromagnetic fields can they create
34:13
34 minutes, 13 seconds
experiences? I think they can with people that are sensitive to it.
34:18
34 minutes, 18 seconds
And of course I' I've written many times includ in 1990 there on that I think it has 1994 thereon on but I think it has to do with magnetite in the brain.
34:29
34 minutes, 29 seconds
Magnetite was first found in the brain in 1992.
34:32
34 minutes, 32 seconds
Uh it's mainly in the hippocampus. Uh it's pretty densely found in the hippocampus but of course magnetite responds to electromagnetic fields.
34:42
34 minutes, 42 seconds
Right. And then I think you had mentioned maybe some of these sacred sites might have an have an abundance of of magnetic properties or
34:50
34 minutes, 50 seconds
I think yes I'm I well I know that's true in some cases they've been measured. Um I I I had the idea for a
34:58
34 minutes, 58 seconds
long time that maybe I walked up a really steep mound today. It was difficult. It was at about it was more
35:07
35 minutes, 7 seconds
than a 45 degree angle. It was very difficult going to the top of it. Uh my
35:13
35 minutes, 13 seconds
thinking back years ago was that the the geometric earthworks that are circles and they're o octagon circles oddshaped
35:23
35 minutes, 23 seconds
formations a horseshoe. Brent Reigns who I think is listening in. Brent Reigns performed a little ceremony in a
35:31
35 minutes, 31 seconds
2,200year-old horseshoeshaped enclosure in Portsouth, Ohio. We had to get permission uh from a
35:40
35 minutes, 40 seconds
tribe in Oklahoma to go inside of it because it's all fenced. But they let us in uh and Brent did this ceremony there and
35:48
35 minutes, 48 seconds
it was it was bizarre and everybody had a very strange experience. This is in a public park with kids screaming, planes
35:56
35 minutes, 56 seconds
going over, but I mean you get in this thing, the walls are 16 feet high and it's it's very very large. I mean,
36:03
36 minutes, 3 seconds
we're talking about 20 25 ft uh inside across from one side to the other and it's probably about 30 feet deep shaped like a horse.
36:12
36 minutes, 12 seconds
What did they use it for? You know, they use these things for rituals and the movements of people. It connected this particular horseshoe. There were
36:21
36 minutes, 21 seconds
two of them there originally. An elementary school was built on top of the second one. They flattened it. Uh
36:28
36 minutes, 28 seconds
but it it connected uh with five miles in one direction and seven and a half miles of the other. Uh it had pathways
36:36
36 minutes, 36 seconds
that had that were 150 to 160 feet wide, perfectly level pathways that went down to the Ohio River. On both sides of the
36:45
36 minutes, 45 seconds
pathway, there were walls of earth on both sides that enclosed the pathway.
36:53
36 minutes, 53 seconds
And then on the other side of the Ohio River, it picked up the pathways and ran for another mile and a half until it got
37:02
37 minutes, 2 seconds
to the most bizarre circular geometric earthwork you can imagine. I mean, just absolutely bizarre. the other direction.
37:11
37 minutes, 11 seconds
It went seven miles and it got to the Ohio River and then on the other side it picked up and it went to what my wife a
37:20
37 minutes, 20 seconds
square a square formation that had a circle at the bottom of it a a circular
37:26
37 minutes, 26 seconds
earthn formation and it had connected to the square lines of earth really tall.
37:34
37 minutes, 34 seconds
We're talking about walls of earth. And they got smaller and smaller about about 2,000 feet it ran
37:42
37 minutes, 42 seconds
and created what my wife called an eyropper where just one person could walk between the walls. Wow.
37:50
37 minutes, 50 seconds
And this thing was aimed directly at where the sun would be seen at the winter solstice. Huh.
37:57
37 minutes, 57 seconds
Now that the winter solstice is important more than just, you know, as a calendar marker. That's when they did the path to soul ceremony. Uh, which is
38:06
38 minutes, 6 seconds
another complete story and would take the rest of your 20 minutes left here to to go through. No [clears throat] worries. No worries.
38:13
38 minutes, 13 seconds
That's And it's amazing how um, you know, how many of I think I heard you speaking somewhere the other day, how many of those mountains that there's probably still undiscovered even in in the US.
38:22
38 minutes, 22 seconds
Well, there are there are a lot. There's probably a hundred thousand still existing in the US. Uh, for example, um,
38:31
38 minutes, 31 seconds
uh, Minnesota, uh, we before before this third edition of the Mound Encyclopedia
38:39
38 minutes, 39 seconds
came out, that's the third edition. It's hard to show. This thing is 700 pages. That's beautiful. It only came out a couple months ago.
38:46
38 minutes, 46 seconds
Oh, I almost I almost turned to Portsmouth here. Uh, I can go to Portsmouth, maybe. Serpent Man. Let's see.
38:55
38 minutes, 55 seconds
I don't have my glasses on, so it's really hard for me to see anything. Here we go.
39:00
39 minutes
Yeah. Okay. I don't know if you can see this. Yeah.
39:02
39 minutes, 2 seconds
Let's get those are the Portsmith Earth Works. And I can't see it too well. The horseshoes
39:09
39 minutes, 9 seconds
are up. Well, I can't do it right here. See the two horseshoes? Okay. Okay.
39:17
39 minutes, 17 seconds
There's two little And there this is where the eyropper is down here. H.
39:23
39 minutes, 23 seconds
And on the other side is where the bizarre circular formation is. And you can see these double lines of earth going here
39:30
39 minutes, 30 seconds
and over here is the other one to pick it up. Uh and that was made around 200 BC. Wow.
39:37
39 minutes, 37 seconds
200 BC. And those are those are used in those things were used in rituals. Yeah.
39:44
39 minutes, 44 seconds
There's no there's Well, that's well known. I mean, nobody doubts that they did rituals there. Basically, that's all archaeologists will say. They say, "Oh,
39:52
39 minutes, 52 seconds
they're sacred and they're used for rituals." But they don't really specify the rituals too much.
39:58
39 minutes, 58 seconds
We do know about the path of souls ritual. Now, we know about their use of hallucinogenics.
40:03
40 minutes, 3 seconds
Uh, and we know um some of what they did in the movements of people from different areas in these geometric earth works.
40:13
40 minutes, 13 seconds
You know, you had mentioned uh you'd mentioned just their archaeology and and uh wanted to discuss with you a little bit. I think I had heard you suggest
40:21
40 minutes, 21 seconds
that there are records that the Smithsonian has that they don't want to release for whatever reason. And that's kind of what I'm
40:28
40 minutes, 28 seconds
I've probably never said that. Some people have asked me about it. What I've said is uh what the bottom line is is that the
40:35
40 minutes, 35 seconds
the Smithsonian did put out a long series of books by the Bureau of Ethnology. Uh they actually had more than two and it's now called the Bureau
40:43
40 minutes, 43 seconds
of American Ethnology, but they actually put out more than 200 different books.
40:48
40 minutes, 48 seconds
Uh and in the 1800s from roughly 1850s so 60 so uh to about 1894 Smithsonian
40:57
40 minutes, 57 seconds
had what they called the mound survey project. Uh and the goal of that was to determine we had two goals. One was to
41:05
41 minutes, 5 seconds
determine who built the mounds because in the 1800s some people were speculating that it was a lost tribe.
41:11
41 minutes, 11 seconds
You know maybe Israel Israelites or whatever. We know the Native Americans built it. I'll let it go with that. But so that was one of the things they were
41:19
41 minutes, 19 seconds
going to do. They're going to determine who built them. The second thing they were going to do is collect skulls and artifacts for the new museum.
41:28
41 minutes, 28 seconds
So that's what they were tasked with during that time period uh where they excavated roughly 3,000 mounds. They
41:35
41 minutes, 35 seconds
pulled out 17 and documented in their publications 17 skeletal remains that were 7 feet to roughly 7' 8 in.
41:44
41 minutes, 44 seconds
Uh those were the tallest ones they found. There's another 1,500 magazine articles
41:53
41 minutes, 53 seconds
uh where uh giants were reportedly removed from mounds or found in various places.
42:00
42 minutes
There's a book that Andrew Collins and I did uh back in 2014 called Path of
42:08
42 minutes, 8 seconds
Souls. There it is. Uh and this is the that that's signness up here. the hand
42:16
42 minutes, 16 seconds
which is hand con boy this is hard to do the hand constellation on the other side is Orion and then scorpius scorpius
42:24
42 minutes, 24 seconds
constellations there that's the main components of it um the the Smithsonian
42:32
42 minutes, 32 seconds
um supposedly received a lot of the skeletons although the report almost all the
42:39
42 minutes, 39 seconds
reports of the sevenfooters said that as soon as they exposed them to the air uh not long after they measured them and
42:47
42 minutes, 47 seconds
they started pulling them out, they literally fell apart, huh, disintegrated and they weren't going to send that to the Smithsonian for
42:54
42 minutes, 54 seconds
display. Uh, but they mainly were collecting skulls which are still in the Smithsonian. They're not displayed, but they have not repatriated those.
43:04
43 minutes, 4 seconds
So, the Smithsonian has said they never got any giant skeletons. That's the only thing that in this u some people call it skull duggery.
43:14
43 minutes, 14 seconds
That's a term that was applied to it many years ago. Um I think the the they they have denied
43:21
43 minutes, 21 seconds
that no giants were ever found and they won't even talk about the sevenfooters.
43:26
43 minutes, 26 seconds
And today archaeologists say nah it's nonsense. Say yeah they had the reports and they wrote it up in their publications but they didn't know how to measure then.
43:34
43 minutes, 34 seconds
That's what that's what I heard yesterday or uh there was some exaggeration going on. Um, and these
43:42
43 minutes, 42 seconds
guys did know how to measure. There were some later ones found and reported, uh, in publications, uh, archaeology
43:50
43 minutes, 50 seconds
publications found by archaeologists, mainstream archaeologists.
43:55
43 minutes, 55 seconds
Uh, the last one, the most recent one I've ever heard of was 1974.
44:01
44 minutes, 1 second
Uh, a 7- foot skeleton was removed from the Chikasaba mound in Bville, [clears throat] Arkansas. Uh there were
44:08
44 minutes, 8 seconds
some two archaeologists that went to I don't remember the name of the university now where they were storing them and they measured uh all they had were the ulna uh and a few other bones.
44:20
44 minutes, 20 seconds
Um they measured that and they talked about it in an article on the Chikasaba mound in the uh Journal of Arkansas
44:27
44 minutes, 27 seconds
Archaeology and they weren't skeptical about it at all. It's like okay so they found a few seven seven foot skeletons you know so what?
44:35
44 minutes, 35 seconds
Yeah. I mean, in terms of just the population, there would probably be some people that were larger.
44:41
44 minutes, 41 seconds
Today, it's one today, it's about one out of every 174,000 people. Wow.
44:47
44 minutes, 47 seconds
So, in an area, I did a statistical analysis of this and put it in Path of Souls. Uh, and I did the analysis from
44:54
44 minutes, 54 seconds
an area of West Virginia where the Smithsonian uh, really focused and they pulled out u
45:02
45 minutes, 2 seconds
seven of these sevenfooters uh, and they found a total of 54 skeletons in the mounds where the sevenfooters came from.
45:14
45 minutes, 14 seconds
So seven of 54 you'd expect one of every 170ome,000 today. And those people were smaller
45:22
45 minutes, 22 seconds
than us. And so an archaeologist, a big time skeptic who's wellknown, read it and said, "That's the only good thing
45:30
45 minutes, 30 seconds
I've ever read about this giant stuff and what al alternative people write." and he called it the Adena elite
45:38
45 minutes, 38 seconds
hypothesis that the Adena uh which is a culture that built very large burial mounds and that's where these skeletons
45:47
45 minutes, 47 seconds
came from that for whatever reason there was a hereditary group of very tall people
45:54
45 minutes, 54 seconds
that were the leaders and that they're the ones that they buried in the mounds because most of the dead of Native Americans were not buried
46:03
46 minutes, 3 seconds
and buried in mounds. They were cremated. Uh cremation was the number one way that they dealt with death back then.
46:11
46 minutes, 11 seconds
So these might have been treated treated differently. Huh.
46:14
46 minutes, 14 seconds
And I I noticed too somebody said that NAGPRA does not apply to Smithsonian.
46:19
46 minutes, 19 seconds
That is true. What does apply to Smithsonian is a 1989 law. NAGPRA was 1990. In 1989,
46:27
46 minutes, 27 seconds
Congress passed a law directly aimed at the Smithsonian. And what it said is that they need to make efforts to
46:36
46 minutes, 36 seconds
repatriate the skeletal remains if they can find who they belong to. And they need to make efforts to repatriate
46:42
46 minutes, 42 seconds
whatever the sacred artifacts were. But they were allowed to determine it. They were not required to immediately
46:50
46 minutes, 50 seconds
interact with the tribes. So the Smithsonian has retained the skeletons u
46:57
46 minutes, 57 seconds
of the the skulls. And the truth is they say they can't find anybody to take them.
47:02
47 minutes, 2 seconds
Although I'm sure there would be some tribes to take them.
47:06
47 minutes, 6 seconds
And I talked to them in 19 u I'm sorry 2013 when I was writing that book Path of Souls. Uh and they told me that they
47:15
47 minutes, 15 seconds
had repatriated everything else which I have since found out is not true. M but the other thing that I have since
47:24
47 minutes, 24 seconds
found out is the person that told me they have repatriated everything did not know about everything else.
47:31
47 minutes, 31 seconds
You know, you can write them an email or you can call them and talk to somebody and they'll say, "Oh, no. Absolutely not." But that person may actually may
47:39
47 minutes, 39 seconds
not know what's really going on behind the scenes.
47:41
47 minutes, 41 seconds
Another compartmentalization
47:42
47 minutes, 42 seconds
[clears throat]
47:43
47 minutes, 43 seconds
thing again. It's a big organization. Yeah.
47:45
47 minutes, 45 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. Uh let me see. I had a couple of other things here. I wanted to since you're I don't know if you're in his district or not, but since you're in
47:53
47 minutes, 53 seconds
the state, just wondered what what do people say about Burchett out there uh in Tennessee that you hear? I'm pretty sure he'll win.
48:01
48 minutes, 1 second
Yeah. All right.
48:02
48 minutes, 2 seconds
Yeah, that's it. Uh Memphis, I'm in the Memphis area. Uh I'm in the same county as Memphis. Uh Memphis is heavily Democratic.
48:11
48 minutes, 11 seconds
Uh but it doesn't rule the state. The state is heavily Republican. Uh, so Republicans are going to win the governorship. That's the answer.
48:20
48 minutes, 20 seconds
All right. Gotcha. Gotcha. I didn't know we'd talk about that.
48:25
48 minutes, 25 seconds
[laughter]
48:25
48 minutes, 25 seconds
Yeah. I was just kind of curious what the locals uh, you know, had to say about um, I don't really talk about politics even to the locals. Uh, but I do read the newspaper so I know that much. Yeah.
48:37
48 minutes, 37 seconds
There still is a newspaper uh, which we actually still get a physical copy, but they have to mail it to us. Yeah. Yeah. Which is just bizarre.
48:45
48 minutes, 45 seconds
By the time you get it, it's no. Yeah. No.
48:48
48 minutes, 48 seconds
I've got one more that's kind of a bigger one. So, Jeeoff, if you you got anything you want to hit on before I was going to bring up Jung and synchronicity and I don't want to
48:57
48 minutes, 57 seconds
um I was going to ask, have you read Jason Civito's book on the mound builder myth that kind of
49:03
49 minutes, 3 seconds
I did get a Kindle copy of it. Yes, I'm familiar with Jason Civo. Yes.
49:10
49 minutes, 10 seconds
Yeah. I I didn't even know he was in that book. Interesting.
49:14
49 minutes, 14 seconds
I'm sorry. Yeah, I thought it was interesting. It it goes over like that that myth idea that there was Yeah. Well, he he uses the term uh white
49:22
49 minutes, 22 seconds
supremacy, I think, 30 times in the book.
49:25
49 minutes, 25 seconds
Uh and uh I don't even I don't want to talk about the guy. He's not worth talking
49:32
49 minutes, 32 seconds
about. Uh we had a little battle back uh when my wife and I were doing 10 years
49:40
49 minutes, 40 seconds
of underwater research in the Bahamas, which if you're even looking for archaeological stuff in the Bahamas,
49:47
49 minutes, 47 seconds
which is what we were doing, we were viciously attacked by a bunch of people, including him. Uh and I don't care to
49:56
49 minutes, 56 seconds
interact. There are some things that I could say. I mean, what jobs has the man had? Do you know what job he's ever had?
50:04
50 minutes, 4 seconds
Um, I mean, he writes books.
50:07
50 minutes, 7 seconds
What else? What job? I mean, I could tell you all the jobs I've had.
50:10
50 minutes, 10 seconds
Writes for like newspapers and magazines and stuff like that.
50:13
50 minutes, 13 seconds
Yeah. Well, no, he's a real job. If you really are interested in in him, ask him what his real job, what his first job
50:21
50 minutes, 21 seconds
was that he got paid for, which he did as a job. And I don't I I don't really uh I don't really want to talk about the
50:30
50 minutes, 30 seconds
guy. I mean, I wish him well. I really do. Uh, I kind of feel sorry for him sometimes because he's kind of in a can't win situation to me.
50:39
50 minutes, 39 seconds
I didn't actually know he had I didn't even know he had written anything on the on the mounds on it.
50:43
50 minutes, 43 seconds
Well, he wrote a book called The Mound Builder Myth. Uh, and um, you know, he he's he's he uh says that
50:52
50 minutes, 52 seconds
the myth was all about white supremacy and it was about guilt. There's no doubt that the whole thing was about guilt, white guilt or colonial guilt.
51:04
51 minutes, 4 seconds
Uh but um yeah, it's it's really a terrible story. I tell the whole story about it myself.
51:12
51 minutes, 12 seconds
Uh and I'm not sure why he he wrote that. I don't really know, but it has had good reviews. Archaeologists like
51:19
51 minutes, 19 seconds
it. Uh some colleges push his book, and I wish him well, like I said, but I don't really want to talk about the guy himself.
51:26
51 minutes, 26 seconds
Yeah. Um, I was going to switch to a little bit of Yungian stuff and we got a question here from Craft Beard who jumps in. He's a therapist and he he joins
51:34
51 minutes, 34 seconds
sometimes on on the panel. So, he was asking, "Do you believe archetypes influence perception of events, interpretation of events or somehow
51:42
51 minutes, 42 seconds
reality itself?" I'll let you uh Okay. So recently uh when I say
51:49
51 minutes, 49 seconds
recently it was about three months ago u a Yungian analyst who is now about 84 uh
51:57
51 minutes, 57 seconds
and my wife he does Yungian groups. My wife has been in the Yungian stuff for decades too. Uh and she go she has an
52:05
52 minutes, 5 seconds
online yungian workshop that they do every other weekend. All right. So this [clears throat] therapist comes in, he's
52:14
52 minutes, 14 seconds
doctoral level and so on. Uh he's semi-retired.
52:18
52 minutes, 18 seconds
Uh he got a copy of the archetype experience because I re-released this book uh wrote new commentary in it uh
52:28
52 minutes, 28 seconds
the 1984 book and read it and he actually called my wife and said he had really learned. He said he could not
52:37
52 minutes, 37 seconds
believe uh that I had found something in all the Yungian writings that he didn't even know about because he thought he'd read
52:45
52 minutes, 45 seconds
everything, you know, and but it was about archetypes and the psychoid quality that they had.
52:52
52 minutes, 52 seconds
So yes, I believe archetypes influence our perception of events, the interpretation of events in terms of influencing reality itself. Sure, if
53:02
53 minutes, 2 seconds
you're if if you're if you're influencing perception, you're going to influence reality somehow. You're going
53:08
53 minutes, 8 seconds
to change what people do. But what I speculated back in 1984, I used direct
53:15
53 minutes, 15 seconds
quotes from Jung about it having a psychoid property that archetypes are
53:22
53 minutes, 22 seconds
have a cyoid nature and that when they move from the unseen ultraviolet end of
53:33
53 minutes, 33 seconds
the psychic spectrum into the visible light spectrum, they can be seen and interacted with.
53:42
53 minutes, 42 seconds
And so my idea in this was that there was only one archetype to start with, mandala. That's it.
53:51
53 minutes, 51 seconds
Wholeness. Just one. And that at at the point of creation when the big bang occurred, which by the way, many Native
53:58
53 minutes, 58 seconds
American groups believe in something like the big bang. But when that happened, the mandala splintered into what I've called splintered archetypes.
54:08
54 minutes, 8 seconds
They're in opposites. All of them have opposites. Native Americans are big into that. There's a trickster, there's a helper, you know, and they have a whole bunch of others, uh, exact opposites.
54:19
54 minutes, 19 seconds
And the trickster can become a helper. It can do both.
54:23
54 minutes, 23 seconds
But this thing about the psychoid nature implies that archetypes can can assume at times
54:32
54 minutes, 32 seconds
under some conditions they can become physically real physical manifestations
54:40
54 minutes, 40 seconds
and they can be seen. And what I wrote in that book um origins of the gods in my section of that book was that if Carl
54:49
54 minutes, 49 seconds
Young had been alive to understand what we know now about plasmas not even I mean the 1980s they knew very little
54:57
54 minutes, 57 seconds
about them 1990s very little 2000s very little it's only been in the past 10 years where plasmas were really
55:04
55 minutes, 4 seconds
understood I think Jung might have believed that plasmas might be the key to the manif manifestation of this cyoid
55:13
55 minutes, 13 seconds
thing that could become move from energy, pure energy, unseen energy to visible energy. That's
55:20
55 minutes, 20 seconds
all it means. Unseen energy to visible energy. So yeah, I do think it influences it.
55:27
55 minutes, 27 seconds
Isn't Isn't that kind of similar to Ke's super spectrum idea? These things exist in some sort of different energy spectrum and they can pop into a reality
55:36
55 minutes, 36 seconds
and become physical and interact with us.
55:38
55 minutes, 38 seconds
That yes, Kale did believe that. Uh my coowriter Andrew, co-author Andrew Collins, uh Andrew is really on the
55:47
55 minutes, 47 seconds
interdimensional thing. He really thinks it's an inter and that's the only area where we I don't think you have to invoke the interdimensional theory.
55:56
55 minutes, 56 seconds
Yeah.
55:56
55 minutes, 56 seconds
When you when when we already know that if you get too close to some electromagnetic fields, you will have
56:04
56 minutes, 4 seconds
experiences. Now I when I say that I'm not sure everybody will because I think that there's some genetics involved in
56:11
56 minutes, 11 seconds
that. Only some people will and the genetics have to do with the uh amount of magnetite. Now it might be some other
56:19
56 minutes, 19 seconds
thing. Maybe there's some neurotransmitter uh or some brain area that responds to them and we're not aware to a magnetic fields that we're not aware of.
56:29
56 minutes, 29 seconds
Um, and I know we're coming up on top of the hour, so you're you're welcome to stay on or if you need to need to get out of here, I I appreciate you hanging
56:36
56 minutes, 36 seconds
out with us. I was going to mention uh since we're talking uh archetypes and we're going to talk a little bit about
56:42
56 minutes, 42 seconds
Alvin Lawson and his his idea about the uh about um about UFOs and um he has you
56:51
56 minutes, 51 seconds
know he's got the birth the birth memory hypothesis which which we uh we could we could discuss in more detail but but but really what I wanted to hit on was he
56:59
56 minutes, 59 seconds
had this um I don't he didn't call it an archetype but you know he had these kind of categories of entities that he came
57:06
57 minutes, 6 seconds
up with um root entities, I think he called them. Root entities, he called them. Okay.
57:13
57 minutes, 13 seconds
And it was interesting to me that he did have like, you know, the kind of the the classic uh there's a little short furry guy that's almost like beastial like you'd see in a lot of the South American accounts. You've got a robot category.
57:24
57 minutes, 24 seconds
Uh the humaner, you know, the the more clearly human human. But his his idea that that you had these things coming from a recollection of birth. But yeah,
57:33
57 minutes, 33 seconds
I it to me it it it was more supportable as an idea that these these might be archetypes that are stored somehow in the central nervous system and then
57:41
57 minutes, 41 seconds
something comes along that activates them. Maybe maybe it'd be plasma or some kind of EM field or um I don't know. Did
57:48
57 minutes, 48 seconds
did you ever meet Alvin Lawson just out of curiosity? Ever have any interactions with No, I never met him. I did write some about his birth trauma hypothesis. Yeah,
57:56
57 minutes, 56 seconds
I am I have the one thing I will say is that his these root entities remind me of DMT entities. Uh if you know much
58:06
58 minutes, 6 seconds
about DM, they people seem to see the same entities.
58:11
58 minutes, 11 seconds
So there's something else going on there. And of course that I'm interested in that because I know Native Americans use DMT. And when I say native, it's not
58:18
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just South America. They used it in North America also and other hallucinogens.
58:24
58 minutes, 24 seconds
So may sorry I just say Lawson points that out. He says that these things are similar to shamanic transes, drug hallucination
58:32
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experiences with things like LSD, DMT and so he mentions that there's like a similarity uh between all the type of entities and near-death experiences as well.
58:41
58 minutes, 41 seconds
Yeah.
58:42
58 minutes, 42 seconds
In fact, and I think the Go ahead, Jeff. I was just going to say when you guys were talking about the little blue men, the little blue people, uh, in fact, he
58:50
58 minutes, 50 seconds
actually references a specific case in his article he did for the International UFO Congress, the very first one in 1977 of a case in Albany, Ohio, where
58:59
58 minutes, 59 seconds
somebody saw this little electric blue man that kind of was a short blue guy with like kind of electric waves. And
59:06
59 minutes, 6 seconds
uh, Lawson compares it to an entity that Seagull included in his book on hallucinations. uh that was a hallucinated figure that is fair fairly
59:15
59 minutes, 15 seconds
similar a little guy you know kind of like spiky looking images and figures and how you getting these same type of
59:22
59 minutes, 22 seconds
uh experiences both from supposedly real UFO encounters as well as hallucinated encounters uh that were documented elsewhere.
59:31
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Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting.
59:36
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Yeah. And I I as as I we had discussed a little bit, you know, the idea that it's a recollection of of a birth experience is not supported by the you know the development of hippocampus and all that.
59:46
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But the the idea certainly the bigger thing to me was that he got uh that that Lawson commented on how how negative the reaction was to his his discussion of
59:55
59 minutes, 55 seconds
these things that that he was thought of as you know the worst guy on the planet for for coming up with this idea that was not an extraterrestrial kind of hypothesis. Well, I I'll tell you,
1:00:03
1 hour, 3 seconds
anybody in this field that says that they don't believe in the extraterrestrial hypothesis is not going to become popular with the majority.
1:00:12
1 hour, 12 seconds
Yeah.
1:00:13
1 hour, 13 seconds
Uh you're going to be shunned. And u and that's partly why I don't really interact much. I don't talk about it
1:00:20
1 hour, 20 seconds
much. Uh it's only been in recent years when I've started doing more podcasts. I did one UFO conference and I sw I wrote
1:00:28
1 hour, 28 seconds
it I wrote it in Grand Delusions. I'm never doing another one. And I've never uh but now that I think about it, all right, I told a lie then because I did
1:00:36
1 hour, 36 seconds
do one more UFO conference, but uh that was because the organization had me set it up and I got to get Jacques Valet to
1:00:44
1 hour, 44 seconds
come in and spend some personal time with him. Nice. Nice.
1:00:49
1 hour, 49 seconds
Seems to have gone my impression at least from Valet is that he's gone more towards an extraterrestrial or or else he's just not objecting to
1:00:57
1 hour, 57 seconds
the people around him that that promote the extraterrestrial idea.
1:01:01
1 hour, 1 minute, 1 second
What's uh anything you know that's what could you give us anything from from ballet?
1:01:06
1 hour, 1 minute, 6 seconds
The only thing that I'll tell you for sure when when um uh this was in Brent Reigns knows I think Brent's still listening. Uh I can't remember the year.
1:01:16
1 hour, 1 minute, 16 seconds
I want to say it was 2006 and and Bali had not given any uh he hadn't given any talks for I think over a decade.
1:01:26
1 hour, 1 minute, 26 seconds
Yeah. Um, and I wound up finding him through another Jacques Vali who looks just like him because I found this other
1:01:34
1 hour, 1 minute, 34 seconds
Jacqu Vali who has the Are you aware of this? Yes. He has an email.
1:01:41
1 hour, 1 minute, 41 seconds
Yeah. I was representing the Casey organization because they want we decided to do a a UFO conference and so I was in charge of getting whoever's
1:01:49
1 hour, 1 minute, 49 seconds
going to speak. So, uh, I talked to this other Valet and he said, "No, I'm not the one you want, but I'd be glad to come and talk." Is what he told me. And
1:01:57
1 hour, 1 minute, 57 seconds
I said, "No, I really want the original one." At first, Jacques said, "No." Uh, he he eventually changed his mind when we told him the whole, you know, what
1:02:06
1 hour, 2 minutes, 6 seconds
this is. You get paid for this. You get a really nice place to stay. It's a wonderful organization.
1:02:13
1 hour, 2 minutes, 13 seconds
Uh he li he had he knew about the Edgar Casey organization. So he came and I picked him up at the airport, spent an
1:02:20
1 hour, 2 minutes, 20 seconds
hour and a half with him. He and his wife in a restaurant before I took him to the hotel. The next day we sat in the
1:02:28
1 hour, 2 minutes, 28 seconds
auditorium pretty much the whole day and I showed him a bunch of films of uh contactees where contactees were
1:02:35
1 hour, 2 minutes, 35 seconds
interviewed which he'd never seen. H I mean it was a delightful day and all that and then I gave my talk at some
1:02:42
1 hour, 2 minutes, 42 seconds
point in this before him and he gave his talk and when he gave his talk the only thing I remember from his talk two things one he still he still believed in
1:02:51
1 hour, 2 minutes, 51 seconds
kind of a control theory or something really you know underlying everything and then he turned to me and said but I don't
1:02:59
1 hour, 2 minutes, 59 seconds
believe and looked me straight in the eyes and said but they don't have anything whatsoever to do with plasmas.
1:03:06
1 hour, 3 minutes, 6 seconds
[laughter]
1:03:07
1 hour, 3 minutes, 7 seconds
and and I went okay [snorts] you know whatever interesting and to me that is because back when he
1:03:15
1 hour, 3 minutes, 15 seconds
was really active in it the word plasma was a dirty dirty word that Philip class had come up with
1:03:22
1 hour, 3 minutes, 22 seconds
and the idea of plasmas in the 70s and 80s was like it's ball lightning or it's what you see you know he they they used
1:03:31
1 hour, 3 minutes, 31 seconds
to put pictures of power lines with a little like little sparks of light on those are plasmas and that's what people are saying are UFOs.
1:03:39
1 hour, 3 minutes, 39 seconds
Uh and that's like I said nobody really knew much about plasmas then.
1:03:44
1 hour, 3 minutes, 44 seconds
Uh but that's the main thing. But I I came to the conclusion that Jacques really had not changed his mind. But anyway, that brought him back into the
1:03:52
1 hour, 3 minutes, 52 seconds
UFO field and suddenly he started writing a lot more kind of coming out of the woodwork and back into the field which I think is a good thing.
1:04:00
1 hour, 4 minutes
Yeah. Yeah. He's a confusing character in my opinion as far as to what he actually kind of believes because at at one point he'll be saying like just a
1:04:08
1 hour, 4 minutes, 8 seconds
few years ago he was saying he doesn't believe disclosure is going to happen.
1:04:11
1 hour, 4 minutes, 11 seconds
It's not a thing and that in fact it's likely the government doesn't actually know any more than we do. But yet he still spends all of his time completely
1:04:19
1 hour, 4 minutes, 19 seconds
immersed and surrounded with the disclosure movement and all the people involved with it and helping to promote their stories. And so it is it's kind of
1:04:27
1 hour, 4 minutes, 27 seconds
like I'm not really sure where he is with things. And in kind of my opinion, since his wife died, um he's kind of
1:04:34
1 hour, 4 minutes, 34 seconds
gotten a little bit more um I think his wife kept him grounded um and more critical with things. And since he's she died, I think he's kind of kind of gone
1:04:43
1 hour, 4 minutes, 43 seconds
off the rails a bit and kind of uh it's Yeah, that's that's very possible.
1:04:48
1 hour, 4 minutes, 48 seconds
I will say this. I think the Cond report, not the Condan, but the Cond report that the British put out, it says point blank they were plasmas.
1:04:57
1 hour, 4 minutes, 57 seconds
Yeah.
1:04:58
1 hour, 4 minutes, 58 seconds
And uh it it quotes things. It had I went through it pretty carefully and it had
1:05:06
1 hour, 5 minutes, 6 seconds
what appeared to be it pulled some things directly out of that interview I did with with uh Remy Sha Shioalier
1:05:14
1 hour, 5 minutes, 14 seconds
uh and some things out of uh people of the web and grand illusions. Not that there's any proof in those because I
1:05:21
1 hour, 5 minutes, 21 seconds
never well I can't say I never did any research but I never did anything that I published. I'll put it that way.
1:05:27
1 hour, 5 minutes, 27 seconds
Research on this that I published. Uh, I've kept all that pretty much to myself or my wife knows about it. Uh, but yeah,
1:05:34
1 hour, 5 minutes, 34 seconds
I think the Kond report, I can't remember when it came out. Was it 2006?
1:05:40
1 hour, 5 minutes, 40 seconds
Somebody can, it was around then, 2007 may maybe. Uh, but it it just point blank says the British report point blank says they're plasmas.
1:05:50
1 hour, 5 minutes, 50 seconds
And I think that's what the military knows. And I think they've been interacting with them. I think the things that the Navy pilots saw, I think
1:05:57
1 hour, 5 minutes, 57 seconds
that the things picked up on radar are all tests of the Navy's plasma plasma decoy system where they can make a decoy
1:06:07
1 hour, 6 minutes, 7 seconds
that's picked up on radar. It looks real. It appears to be real.
1:06:11
1 hour, 6 minutes, 11 seconds
Uh but it's a decoy and I think that Go ahead. That that of course was a theory that Tom Mahoot had
1:06:19
1 hour, 6 minutes, 19 seconds
put forward as to what Bob Lazar was seeing around Area 51 that it was actually a plasma test system that they were creating plasma UFOs in the sky,
1:06:27
1 hour, 6 minutes, 27 seconds
you know, for like radio echoes as well as they can be visual. Not just radar echoes. They can actually Yeah, you can see them. You can they change you can change color just like light has color
1:06:37
1 hour, 6 minutes, 37 seconds
bands in it. You can change the frequencies to change the color. Yeah.
1:06:40
1 hour, 6 minutes, 40 seconds
And you can focus them on a point where they create a ball of light.
1:06:45
1 hour, 6 minutes, 45 seconds
Yeah. I think he created a whole computer program where like you could change the levels and for different colors and things and to simulate and whatnot. And it's it's and and that and
1:06:54
1 hour, 6 minutes, 54 seconds
that was in the 90s. The technology has only gotten much more advanced sophisticated. But again, none of this
1:07:01
1 hour, 7 minutes, 1 second
is popular. Uh, and to most people, this is not the solution to UFOs and uh, abductions and all that.
1:07:09
1 hour, 7 minutes, 9 seconds
I think there's a lot going on with abductions, but I do think that most of it is an interaction with a manifesting
1:07:18
1 hour, 7 minutes, 18 seconds
plasma source. And I'm using the term plasma. Basically, it's an enormous
1:07:24
1 hour, 7 minutes, 24 seconds
amount of energy that is coming out into the air and it's forming into a shape
1:07:33
1 hour, 7 minutes, 33 seconds
and then it becomes a plasma. And as long as it gets energy, it's sustained.
1:07:38
1 hour, 7 minutes, 38 seconds
And the longer it gets energy, the more sophisticated it gets. I think that I think that it's like out in the Yakama
1:07:48
1 hour, 7 minutes, 48 seconds
Indian Reservation when you go back and you look at all the reports at Yaka uh and they talk and I spent a lot I spent
1:07:55
1 hour, 7 minutes, 55 seconds
several nights at Tapenish Ridge in Yaka with uh Washington state government officials that were over the Department
1:08:03
1 hour, 8 minutes, 3 seconds
of Corrections. We went out there together because you're not allowed to do this anymore. Uh but we went out got permission and spent the nights looking
1:08:11
1 hour, 8 minutes, 11 seconds
at it. But people reported balls of light rolling down the mountain top
1:08:18
1 hour, 8 minutes, 18 seconds
toppenish ridge and they would follow. I mean if you look at Tapenish in the daytime there's like a hundred fault lines all over it. I mean that you can really see them.
1:08:28
1 hour, 8 minutes, 28 seconds
And so the balls of light began near the top of it and they rolled down the the mountain
1:08:36
1 hour, 8 minutes, 36 seconds
slowly. And there were some Native Americans that lived at the bottom and they had a lot of very bizarre
1:08:44
1 hour, 8 minutes, 44 seconds
experiences. Everything from seeing a Bigfoot, [snorts] smelling it like the traditional smell like rotten eggs.
1:08:51
1 hour, 8 minutes, 51 seconds
Uh they had the ball of light. There were some with a tractor. There's orchards and farms below it.
1:08:58
1 hour, 8 minutes, 58 seconds
Uh there were people out on tractors and the lights went over them and the the system shorted out on the tractors.
1:09:05
1 hour, 9 minutes, 5 seconds
uh they all felt their their hair would raise. They felt something really odd like that. They had sensations of fear that was very very common at top ridge.
1:09:16
1 hour, 9 minutes, 16 seconds
And the research done there by a physicist and I interviewed them uh said that these are plasmas just like in
1:09:24
1 hour, 9 minutes, 24 seconds
Missouri. The all those cases that occurred in Missouri that the uh department of physics physicist Harley
1:09:33
1 hour, 9 minutes, 33 seconds
Rutled studied for seven years called project identification. He says point blank they were plasmas. And the
1:09:41
1 hour, 9 minutes, 41 seconds
oddest thing in his book about it, Project identification, is that he said once he really got into
1:09:48
1 hour, 9 minutes, 48 seconds
this, the plasmus started following him to his home and they appeared in his backyard
1:09:56
1 hour, 9 minutes, 56 seconds
and he had barbecues in his backyard uh in Cape Gerardo, Missouri and they appeared in his backyard with people and
1:10:03
1 hour, 10 minutes, 3 seconds
they appeared in the halls of the physics building. Wow. I don't I didn't I know the book, but I didn't know that.
1:10:09
1 hour, 10 minutes, 9 seconds
Yeah, it's in it's in his book and in papers that he gave several uh papers at conferences. They're in those.
1:10:18
1 hour, 10 minutes, 18 seconds
Uh I mean, it's astonishing to me. It's just it's astonishing. But he said too, these things are plasmas.
1:10:25
1 hour, 10 minutes, 25 seconds
Did you ever meet Greg Long?
1:10:28
1 hour, 10 minutes, 28 seconds
I never met him. I did have a lot of back and forth uh correspondence with him back when when he wrote, you know,
1:10:36
1 hour, 10 minutes, 36 seconds
he wrote about I know what he wrote about his great his book is great uh on top ridge and the Yakima reservation.
1:10:44
1 hour, 10 minutes, 44 seconds
Yeah, it's great.
1:10:44
1 hour, 10 minutes, 44 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. His whole his whole thing is basically kind of balls of light um is kind of what he tries to catalog.
1:10:51
1 hour, 10 minutes, 51 seconds
Yeah. But you got to remember back then they really didn't know what plasmas were. Yeah.
1:10:55
1 hour, 10 minutes, 55 seconds
And we still don't really know what they are. We know that they are uh that it is you know a plasma is kind of difficult
1:11:04
1 hour, 11 minutes, 4 seconds
for people to understand technically it's a ball of ionized gas super ionized gas
1:11:13
1 hour, 11 minutes, 13 seconds
but what happens is uh electrons are torn away from atoms and that it creates
1:11:21
1 hour, 11 minutes, 21 seconds
super heat and and very powerful electromagnetic fields and the more energy that pours into it the stronger
1:11:28
1 hour, 11 minutes, 28 seconds
it gets and the stronger the electromagnetic fields get and it keeps pulling in whatever it can pull in and
1:11:35
1 hour, 11 minutes, 35 seconds
it's gen I mean it's not pulling in like uh people or whatever like that it's pulling in dust and anything that is small floating in
1:11:44
1 hour, 11 minutes, 44 seconds
the air and creates a dusty plasma and go ahead sorry would folks who have something like temporal lo epilepsy would they be more
1:11:53
1 hour, 11 minutes, 53 seconds
affected by something like that potentially um I don't Well, I would suspect that. I mean, that's a really good statement or good idea probably, but I don't know.
1:12:04
1 hour, 12 minutes, 4 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.
1:12:06
1 hour, 12 minutes, 6 seconds
You know, one of the theories that has been put forward about angel hair um particularly in a certain case I think
1:12:13
1 hour, 12 minutes, 13 seconds
in New York was that it's was actually generated basically by plasmas in the air. Um, and whatever process is going
1:12:21
1 hour, 12 minutes, 21 seconds
on with that is basically doing some sort of chemical reaction that's grabbing molecules and putting them together in this stringy substance that it then ends up releasing out to the
1:12:28
1 hour, 12 minutes, 28 seconds
ground and that it was actually caused by plasmas. Uh, well, that's interesting. Now, Brent Reigns, who I I don't say if he's still
1:12:36
1 hour, 12 minutes, 36 seconds
here or not, but Brent's actually collected some and put it in a bottle. Some angel hair. Yeah. Wow.
1:12:43
1 hour, 12 minutes, 43 seconds
Is it still there or did it dissolve and disappear? It dissolved and disappeared.
1:12:48
1 hour, 12 minutes, 48 seconds
But he could see it for a while. He collected it in like a mason jar and eventually it disappeared. I don't know how quickly. Bring him on your show
1:12:57
1 hour, 12 minutes, 57 seconds
sometime because Brent is a longren he's better known than I am because I have tried to stay out of the field and haven't talked about this stuff much.
1:13:05
1 hour, 13 minutes, 5 seconds
I'll write books but you know I'm not gonna I don't really talk about this stuff publicly. Yeah. Does make people mad.
1:13:13
1 hour, 13 minutes, 13 seconds
Yeah. That's that's true. That's true.
1:13:15
1 hour, 13 minutes, 15 seconds
Yeah. One more question for you on Yung and synchronicity. Um, what well I'll I'll just make it kind of a general.
1:13:22
1 hour, 13 minutes, 22 seconds
What do you think Yung meant in terms of synchronicity? Does the meaning come from the person or is there some paranormal or other how would you interpret what Young meant about a synchronicity?
1:13:31
1 hour, 13 minutes, 31 seconds
Well, what what I can tell you what he what he wrote uh and then I have my own interpretation and I that's actually the archetype
1:13:39
1 hour, 13 minutes, 39 seconds
experience. I've gone back and reread that several times and even my wife and says it's probably the best idea I've
1:13:47
1 hour, 13 minutes, 47 seconds
ever had. Uh which actually for a lot of us the best idea we ever had was when we were young, not not as we get older. But
1:13:55
1 hour, 13 minutes, 55 seconds
uh of course Young said that it's a meaningful coincidence that u two events occur in time and space synchronously at
1:14:04
1 hour, 14 minutes, 4 seconds
the same time. Uh and the the event has meaning. All right. So his example that
1:14:12
1 hour, 14 minutes, 12 seconds
he gave two examples traditionally gave the same two examples. One was the time that he split from Freud.
1:14:19
1 hour, 14 minutes, 19 seconds
Uh if you know about that particular example of of a a boom happening in the room.
1:14:25
1 hour, 14 minutes, 25 seconds
Maybe a book fell over. I don't know the specifics there. Uh but they had that argument because Jung was into the paranormal stuff and Freud was not. Uh
1:14:33
1 hour, 14 minutes, 33 seconds
the other example he gave was he was with a patient and they were talking about the patient's dream and the female patient talked about the
1:14:42
1 hour, 14 minutes, 42 seconds
a scarab beetle and she was talking about she she'd seen a scarab beetle. It had something to do with Egypt and Jung
1:14:49
1 hour, 14 minutes, 49 seconds
kept hearing this tap tap tap tap tap on the window and he kept talking to the P and this tap tap tap on the window kept bothering him. So he got up and he
1:14:58
1 hour, 14 minutes, 58 seconds
looked and he opened the window and a beetle flew into his hand.
1:15:02
1 hour, 15 minutes, 2 seconds
Uh, and of course it's it's a meaningful coincidence. It has meaning. Two things occurring at the same time and place with no apparent causal connection.
1:15:13
1 hour, 15 minutes, 13 seconds
That's right.
1:15:14
1 hour, 15 minutes, 14 seconds
That's that's basically what he said, of course. And he said with UFOs, uh, that people are saying these odd
1:15:21
1 hour, 15 minutes, 21 seconds
things at a time when humanity is going through the most stressful period possible because it was after World War
1:15:28
1 hour, 15 minutes, 28 seconds
II. uh nuclear annihilation was a real possibility. More wars were a real possibility. Everybody had anxiety. And
1:15:37
1 hour, 15 minutes, 37 seconds
so we saw these saucers in the sky which represented a mandala which is wholeness and salvation. So that was Jung's
1:15:45
1 hour, 15 minutes, 45 seconds
explanation in his book. But uh he also hinted that these that the archetypes can become real that the
1:15:53
1 hour, 15 minutes, 53 seconds
mandala being a you know a representation of the whole. So what I believe is that have you ever had an
1:16:01
1 hour, 16 minutes, 1 second
experience of oneness where you really felt or saw how everything appears to be connected?
1:16:09
1 hour, 16 minutes, 9 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
1:16:09
1 hour, 16 minutes, 9 seconds
Uh how things really do seem and physics is now telling us everything is connected. Well, that's the idea of the
1:16:16
1 hour, 16 minutes, 16 seconds
web. People of the web, that's where it came from.
1:16:20
1 hour, 16 minutes, 20 seconds
And the web is like a spiderweb. And the thing about a spiderweb is this. You know it has all these interconnected
1:16:26
1 hour, 16 minutes, 26 seconds
pieces that that there can be huge webs but if you touch any part of the web and you vibrate it a little it affects the entire web.
1:16:37
1 hour, 16 minutes, 37 seconds
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So how I view the universe now is this.
1:16:42
1 hour, 16 minutes, 42 seconds
There is an interconnected web at the physics level connecting everything. We just don't see it. And if we did see it,
1:16:50
1 hour, 16 minutes, 50 seconds
we couldn't exist because we couldn't see anything else. We'd never be focused on what we have to do.
1:16:57
1 hour, 16 minutes, 57 seconds
And from time to time, you have this, we can have this bizarre experience where something gets us out of our ma mindset
1:17:05
1 hour, 17 minutes, 5 seconds
where something profound happens and we go, "Oh my god, that's something I was just thinking about. I really need this."
1:17:11
1 hour, 17 minutes, 11 seconds
Yeah. And I believe that that is an experience of oneness that you have
1:17:18
1 hour, 17 minutes, 18 seconds
actually seen the connecting web. You've seen a little place where it connects.
1:17:25
1 hour, 17 minutes, 25 seconds
And again, we can't f we couldn't function as human beings if we saw it all all the time. Yeah.
1:17:31
1 hour, 17 minutes, 31 seconds
But that's the way that I visualize it and see it now.
1:17:35
1 hour, 17 minutes, 35 seconds
And I'm not trying to convince anybody that that's correct or whatever. That's just my belief. Yeah.
1:17:40
1 hour, 17 minutes, 40 seconds
And I can be wrong. Uh, I've been wrong before, be wrong again. And I'm okay with that.
1:17:45
1 hour, 17 minutes, 45 seconds
Yeah. Right on. Right on. Yeah. We'll have to get Brent Reigns on uh in the near future for sure. All right.
1:17:52
1 hour, 17 minutes, 52 seconds
Is Is the web kind of like Rupert Sheldrake's morphic field or morphic resonance?
1:17:58
1 hour, 17 minutes, 58 seconds
Yep. I But I liked Young's explanation better. I I really like Young and his the concept of synchronicity, but it's
1:18:06
1 hour, 18 minutes, 6 seconds
just too dense and incomprehensible to the vast majority of the population.
1:18:12
1 hour, 18 minutes, 12 seconds
Yeah. I mean, there are people their lifetime studying young, right?
1:18:15
1 hour, 18 minutes, 15 seconds
Yeah. I mean, it's a lot of this. It's like trying to explain when I would tell people that that um I remember having
1:18:25
1 hour, 18 minutes, 25 seconds
this discussion at Gulf Breeze. I told this guy that I don't believe that what we're seeing is an alien. I think that was I told him I think that is a a manifestation of a plasma.
1:18:36
1 hour, 18 minutes, 36 seconds
And and I said when it went out they simply changed the frequency. And he said no. He said it if you can't see it it must be interdimensional. If it's if
1:18:45
1 hour, 18 minutes, 45 seconds
it's coming in to visible if it's becoming visible and then invisible that must mean that it's interdimensional.
1:18:52
1 hour, 18 minutes, 52 seconds
It's in some other dimension. And I I could not explain to him.
1:18:56
1 hour, 18 minutes, 56 seconds
Maybe I just can't couldn't explain well then. Uh but I said, "No, it doesn't have to be interdimensional." Uh yeah, that whole interdimensional thing
1:19:04
1 hour, 19 minutes, 4 seconds
is is it's almost just a a word that's a placeholder for for some meaningless kind of unknown, you know, in terms of what people mean when they say
1:19:12
1 hour, 19 minutes, 12 seconds
interdimensional related to UFOs. I don't think most of them have any any idea what they really mean.
1:19:17
1 hour, 19 minutes, 17 seconds
I don't either. I I mean it's it's very difficult to explain these things but there is a one of the rational emotive
1:19:24
1 hour, 19 minutes, 24 seconds
uh irrational beliefs is um I don't understand this therefore there's nothing to understand.
1:19:32
1 hour, 19 minutes, 32 seconds
All right. A lot of people do function that way. If they don't understand something if it appears
1:19:39
1 hour, 19 minutes, 39 seconds
really complicated and they don't have the background to understand it they figure that it's nonsense. That is there's nothing to understand. I'll give
1:19:47
1 hour, 19 minutes, 47 seconds
you I want to give one example and I know you you got to move on to something else. Uh but there was an archaeologist
1:19:54
1 hour, 19 minutes, 54 seconds
that recently sent me a thing. Uh, it was a Wikipedia page after I'd posted like a one minute video of me sitting on
1:20:02
1 hour, 20 minutes, 2 seconds
the dust and the sand at Sedona, Arizona after watching a a scientist, an
1:20:09
1 hour, 20 minutes, 9 seconds
electrical engineer who's written scientific papers who had been measuring the electromagnetic force and
1:20:16
1 hour, 20 minutes, 16 seconds
frequencies coming out of a vortex area at Sedona. And so we watched him one day
1:20:23
1 hour, 20 minutes, 23 seconds
and he would find these periodic spikes above the Schuman residence where suddenly there'd be a huge spike of
1:20:30
1 hour, 20 minutes, 30 seconds
electromagnetic energy coming out of that spot on the earth and then there was another spot about 100 feet away where he saw these
1:20:39
1 hour, 20 minutes, 39 seconds
dramatic declines of electromagnetic energy like there's some connection there's something coming out of the earth or going into the earth from time to time electromagnetically.
1:20:49
1 hour, 20 minutes, 49 seconds
Yeah. And so I sat and I said that okay some people believe that if you get in one of these vortexes or vortices you
1:20:57
1 hour, 20 minutes, 57 seconds
sit in it. You meditate a bit. You don't want to go into full meditation but you you shut your mind down enough. You you
1:21:06
1 hour, 21 minutes, 6 seconds
relax. You try to meditate. You get yourself almost to theta beta waves you know which is not quite asleep not
1:21:13
1 hour, 21 minutes, 13 seconds
meditation. You get to there and you have been you have tuned yourself to the
1:21:19
1 hour, 21 minutes, 19 seconds
Schuman resonance and then when there's these these vortices have these spikes in energy you have experiences and I said at least that's the theory. Okay.
1:21:30
1 hour, 21 minutes, 30 seconds
So an archaeologist said who likes to follow me on my Twitter page which is cool. I mean, I I love archaeologists
1:21:38
1 hour, 21 minutes, 38 seconds
following me. Uh, said, you know, this is basically nonsense. And she sent me, and I I wasn't saying it's real. I'm
1:21:45
1 hour, 21 minutes, 45 seconds
just saying here's what he found. Um, she sent a Wikipedia page and it's entitled the Schuman Residence Conspiracy theory.
1:21:56
1 hour, 21 minutes, 56 seconds
The conspiracy the conspiracy theory.
1:22:00
1 hour, 22 minutes
And the Schuman residence is in mainstream science.
1:22:04
1 hour, 22 minutes, 4 seconds
Yeah. I mean this to me it's like if I don't believe if I don't know anything about physics if I don't know anything about electromagnetic
1:22:12
1 hour, 22 minutes, 12 seconds
energy you know it must be conspiracy and it's nonsense that's that's [clears throat] what I mean if I don't understand this there's nothing to understand and that's something we face all the time.
1:22:22
1 hour, 22 minutes, 22 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
1:22:24
1 hour, 22 minutes, 24 seconds
You know I was reading I think the psionics people that psyionics is a word that's become popular in the UFO community of late. Um, and I think thei
1:22:33
1 hour, 22 minutes, 33 seconds
psionics people are claiming to basically somehow they have devices that they tune into the human resonance in order to like call the UFOs down or something. I just read this last week.
1:22:43
1 hour, 22 minutes, 43 seconds
Yeah. As far as like complex topics that people understand, there's a guy Timothy Morton that came up with the idea the hyper object, which is exactly con
1:22:51
1 hour, 22 minutes, 51 seconds
concepts that are basically so complex and difficult that people refuse to understand. And one of the examples is climate change. So, a lot of people don't think climate change is real
1:22:59
1 hour, 22 minutes, 59 seconds
because it's so complex and difficult and there's so many aspects and layers to it that they just can't comprehend it in their mind. Yeah.
1:23:05
1 hour, 23 minutes, 5 seconds
And in recent years, people have applied the term hyper object to UFOs as well.
1:23:09
1 hour, 23 minutes, 9 seconds
There's like been books and papers written comparing the the whole UFO topic to the hyper object and how it's kind of like this overly complex topic that, you know, people can't understand.
1:23:18
1 hour, 23 minutes, 18 seconds
And [snorts] yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm with you with with you, Greg, and and Jeff, I guess, to this to some degree that that kind of
1:23:26
1 hour, 23 minutes, 26 seconds
the mainstream UFO folks. Um they had just just if you want to talk about it for a moment, that uh disclosure forum, I guess yesterday or another one of
1:23:34
1 hour, 23 minutes, 34 seconds
these events, right, where they've got former military or government officials and the point that I'm making with this is the f one question that stood out as,
1:23:42
1 hour, 23 minutes, 42 seconds
you know, kind of the usually how it goes. Someone asked uh Chris Melon and Timothy Gald delay um do you have any evidence that these are you know do you
1:23:51
1 hour, 23 minutes, 51 seconds
have have you seen any proof that this is actually you know extraterrestrial or and long story short the answer was no but I know somebody who has.
1:23:58
1 hour, 23 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah that's the best answer after however many years of the same meetings and committees of well I know a guy who who who's seen it. Right.
1:24:07
1 hour, 24 minutes, 7 seconds
Yeah. which sums up ufology basically to a tea. Um, for the most part is I I know a guy or third party secondhand stories.
1:24:16
1 hour, 24 minutes, 16 seconds
Yeah. Well, I know some people that know more about plasmas than I do. [laughter] Uh, and I really I all I do is scratch the surface. I've read their articles.
1:24:24
1 hour, 24 minutes, 24 seconds
I'm convinced they know more than I do.
1:24:28
1 hour, 24 minutes, 28 seconds
Uh, and um, yeah, it it's a tough thing. Not many people will accept any of this. You guys
1:24:35
1 hour, 24 minutes, 35 seconds
aren't going to be popular either if you're skeptics. And that I I pick up some skepticism from you, which is great. Uh but it's that's not and and
1:24:44
1 hour, 24 minutes, 44 seconds
today in [clears throat] today's world, it seems you can't go down the middle anymore. Yeah. Yeah.
1:24:51
1 hour, 24 minutes, 51 seconds
You're either full-blown skeptic or full-blown believer. Uh and it the same thing in politics.
1:25:00
1 hour, 25 minutes
There appears there's nothing down the middle. You can't there is no middle that's left. People can't deal with nuance anymore.
1:25:06
1 hour, 25 minutes, 6 seconds
I mean, every It's like there's no middle anymore. Yeah. Yeah.
1:25:09
1 hour, 25 minutes, 9 seconds
Bring back the fence sitting. Where are the fence sitters of your There's nothing wrong with fence sitting. Uh if if you don't really know,
1:25:17
1 hour, 25 minutes, 17 seconds
and the truth is I'm at the point where I admit I really know next to nothing for 100%. About the only thing that I
1:25:26
1 hour, 25 minutes, 26 seconds
really know for 100% is that I'm going to die. Uh and it's getting closer and closer every day. That's what I know. Uh
1:25:34
1 hour, 25 minutes, 34 seconds
beyond that, everything's a percentage to me and I can't sometimes I can't judge the percentage. It's like when I say I don't
1:25:42
1 hour, 25 minutes, 42 seconds
believe in the ET theory, it doesn't mean that I have it at 0%. I like I said in the beginning, Carl Sean's thing kind
1:25:50
1 hour, 25 minutes, 50 seconds
of blew my mind when I first discovered it and read it. I I'd never read it anywhere else. I found this article. Yeah.
1:25:56
1 hour, 25 minutes, 56 seconds
And uh I think there's a a possibility there's a possibility of everything.
1:26:01
1 hour, 26 minutes, 1 second
It's like here in the in the United States in Native American stuff, in ancient American history, there's a there's a possibility there were people
1:26:08
1 hour, 26 minutes, 8 seconds
here 400,000 years ago. How do I know that? Well, there's a site in Mexico called Huea Taco that has been excavated by several archaeologists.
1:26:18
1 hour, 26 minutes, 18 seconds
Geologists, the US Geological Survey was involved in it. The Sorbone in France did the testing along with uh the
1:26:25
1 hour, 26 minutes, 25 seconds
Maxplank Institute in Germany. It's 400,000 BC. However, it's not accepted.
1:26:31
1 hour, 26 minutes, 31 seconds
Um God, not Alvarado. Um what was the a guy that won the uh Nobel Prize uh found
1:26:40
1 hour, 26 minutes, 40 seconds
evidence of occupation in California 250,000 BC. There's the serudi
1:26:48
1 hour, 26 minutes, 48 seconds
site in California. Mainstream archaeology publication 133,000y old site in California. There's the topper
1:26:57
1 hour, 26 minutes, 57 seconds
site in South Carolina. Albert Goodyear, the University of South Carolina, dates to 50,000 BC.
1:27:04
1 hour, 27 minutes, 4 seconds
There's other sites like that. South South America has several sites that date to 50,000 BC, but it's not believed by the mainstream.
1:27:13
1 hour, 27 minutes, 13 seconds
They say, "Well, it's not accepted yet." You know, we we believe it's something else. But I say all that has a probability. There's some percentage. I
1:27:21
1 hour, 27 minutes, 21 seconds
think it's a low percentage that there were some of our ancestors here 400,000 years ago. I think it's a low percentage, but it's not zero.
1:27:32
1 hour, 27 minutes, 32 seconds
It's kind of like you'll you'll occasionally see this meme that walking around in a desert in Texas,
1:27:40
1 hour, 27 minutes, 40 seconds
you probably won't be bitten by a shark, but it's never 0%. Zero. Yeah.
1:27:48
1 hour, 27 minutes, 48 seconds
Yeah. Because a shark might fall out of the sky from something, you know, and that that's possible. Just like the fish falling from the sky.
1:27:55
1 hour, 27 minutes, 55 seconds
I like to say any anything is possible, but not everything is likely. All right.
1:27:58
1 hour, 27 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And in a universe, if the universe is big enough, well, everything statistically has to happen.
1:28:07
1 hour, 28 minutes, 7 seconds
Yeah.
1:28:07
1 hour, 28 minutes, 7 seconds
Uh so there's some guy out there in Texas who better watch out. [laughter] Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with saying you don't know something. It's
1:28:16
1 hour, 28 minutes, 16 seconds
the people that claim to know something with 100% certainty that you have to worry about and question, you know, whether you should take seriously.
1:28:24
1 hour, 28 minutes, 24 seconds
Yeah. So, it's all percentage. Uh the same thing. I think it it's uh Scott Walter who's a friend. Uh Scott is uh
1:28:33
1 hour, 28 minutes, 33 seconds
really into the Templars having been in North America uh starting in the 1300s.
1:28:39
1 hour, 28 minutes, 39 seconds
U he has evidence, his evidence. The mainstream doesn't accept his evidence.
1:28:45
1 hour, 28 minutes, 45 seconds
Yet he has evidence and it's pretty good. Yeah.
1:28:48
1 hour, 28 minutes, 48 seconds
Is it possible that Templars came here and went to Oak Island? That's the thing that he talks about mainly. Really?
1:28:54
1 hour, 28 minutes, 54 seconds
And that he's written books about it that they Scott Walter is a geologist by the way. But he they removed it. He's
1:29:01
1 hour, 29 minutes, 1 second
found documents that they removed it in the early 1700s or or late 1700s. That's right. Right before the American
1:29:09
1 hour, 29 minutes, 9 seconds
Revolution. Uh, and is it possible that that happened? Yeah, I don't know how probable it is.
1:29:16
1 hour, 29 minutes, 16 seconds
That I can't put a percentage on. Uh, but it's possible. Uh, it's possible that those the legends of the Irish and
1:29:26
1 hour, 29 minutes, 26 seconds
a um, I want to say English that a monk came over that they came over and, you
1:29:33
1 hour, 29 minutes, 33 seconds
know, went to North America. Is it possible? Yeah, it's possible. They didn't leave any trace behind. Uh, it's possible the Vikings did in fact get
1:29:41
1 hour, 29 minutes, 41 seconds
into the middle of America. U and genetics. People say, "Well, there's no genetics." Well, they don't show up in the genetics because they were all men.
1:29:50
1 hour, 29 minutes, 50 seconds
Ancient DNA is almost all mitochondrial DNA. It's all female. It's all comes from the female side. And if men if men
1:29:58
1 hour, 29 minutes, 58 seconds
if a if a million of the Vikings came over, which it didn't happen, but let's say 500 came over and they blended in with Native American tribes.
1:30:07
1 hour, 30 minutes, 7 seconds
None of their mitochondrial DNA exists in Native Americans. None.
1:30:12
1 hour, 30 minutes, 12 seconds
They can't because it all comes from the female side. [snorts] And they were all males that came over.
1:30:17
1 hour, 30 minutes, 17 seconds
Not many females were on those boats, if any. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. All I know is I gave up on the TV show.
1:30:25
1 hour, 30 minutes, 25 seconds
I just couldn't keep watching the show. It was the same thing every episode.
1:30:29
1 hour, 30 minutes, 29 seconds
Uh yeah, and Scott Scott Walter talks about it. You know, it's not there. It's not there. And they invited him on the show. He's get he's put out several good
1:30:36
1 hour, 30 minutes, 36 seconds
videos on it that uh why he wouldn't do the show. Uh but I do like the archaeology on it. I've had this argument with a skeptic who hates it.
1:30:45
1 hour, 30 minutes, 45 seconds
And I've said I've told him that man, there is some really good archaeology going on there and people get to see how it's done. It's meticulous. It's
1:30:54
1 hour, 30 minutes, 54 seconds
backbreaking. It's dirty. And it's incredibly slow. You know, the little brush a little bit at a time, but that's
1:31:02
1 hour, 31 minutes, 2 seconds
they're being very thorough and doing a really good job.
1:31:05
1 hour, 31 minutes, 5 seconds
Uh but yeah, it drags on. Uh and it it's hard for some people to follow. Everybody wants to see the treasure. Maybe they'll find it tonight, you know.
1:31:13
1 hour, 31 minutes, 13 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
1:31:14
1 hour, 31 minutes, 14 seconds
But there won't be a show after they find it. So, there you go.
1:31:18
1 hour, 31 minutes, 18 seconds
I believe it's the same company that does Skinwalker Ranch.
1:31:21
1 hour, 31 minutes, 21 seconds
Yes, it is. I was thinking Okay. And it's the same company that does Ancient Aliens. Yeah.
1:31:26
1 hour, 31 minutes, 26 seconds
And it's the same company that does uh the William Shatner show. Yeah.
1:31:31
1 hour, 31 minutes, 31 seconds
Continual search without a lot of uh Yeah. Andrew Andrew's on both Shatner's and the u the other and he also went to
1:31:39
1 hour, 31 minutes, 39 seconds
Skinwalker Ranch. Uh, we actually, Andrew and I and my wife and an electrical engineer and a local and
1:31:48
1 hour, 31 minutes, 48 seconds
another filmmaker went to the original Skinwalker Ranch uh, between Cottonwood and Sedona uh, called Bradshaw Ranch.
1:31:58
1 hour, 31 minutes, 58 seconds
Bradshaw. Yeah.
1:31:59
1 hour, 31 minutes, 59 seconds
And did some stuff there. He also picked up a lot of very interesting readings there. Uh, and Andrew and the rest of
1:32:08
1 hour, 32 minutes, 8 seconds
them spent the night there. I was not willing to do that. Mainly because uh I'm older and I would prefer to get a good night's sleep in a bed and not step
1:32:16
1 hour, 32 minutes, 16 seconds
on a rattlesnake, which my wife saved me from doing while we were there. I almost literally stepped backed on to a
1:32:24
1 hour, 32 minutes, 24 seconds
rattlesnake that was just laying there waiting on me. She grabbed me by the arm and said, "Don't step back." You owe her one. You owe her another one, right?
1:32:32
1 hour, 32 minutes, 32 seconds
Uh yeah, I owe her a lot. She owes me a few.
1:32:35
1 hour, 32 minutes, 35 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. I'll use this as kind of a wrap-up. We made it through uh we made it through June 24th, I guess. So far, at least I haven't heard of any
1:32:42
1 hour, 32 minutes, 42 seconds
eupfologists dying. Um that's always a big the 24th, right, was the the date that uh was it a keel thing that wrote
1:32:52
1 hour, 32 minutes, 52 seconds
about it? And I know I know Lauren Coleman had had talked about it, but that that thing about uh isn't June 24th the star when uh Kenneth Arnold saw the UFOs?
1:33:02
1 hour, 33 minutes, 2 seconds
Yeah.
1:33:04
1 hour, 33 minutes, 4 seconds
H I think it's July 24th because I remember having a conversation in 1975
1:33:14
1 hour, 33 minutes, 14 seconds
about this with a chair the a chairman of a department at Memphis State. I was telling him that the weird that that date I think it was July 24th.
1:33:25
1 hour, 33 minutes, 25 seconds
Okay. When all the weird stuff happens.
1:33:28
1 hour, 33 minutes, 28 seconds
Yeah. But I expected on Kenneth Arnold the anniversary I think is this the 75th anniversary of it? Somebody worked the math.
1:33:36
1 hour, 33 minutes, 36 seconds
29th this week.
1:33:39
1 hour, 33 minutes, 39 seconds
Okay. Uh but wasn't it Am I right? Was it June 24th? Yeah, June 24th at one minute to 3 p.m.
1:33:47
1 hour, 33 minutes, 47 seconds
Well, I don't I don't remember anything happening then. So, I made [clears throat] it through.
1:33:52
1 hour, 33 minutes, 52 seconds
Yeah. Yeah, we survived. Well, there was a Brazilian psychic that had claimed that there was going to be a mass abduction at one of the soccer games or
1:34:01
1 hour, 34 minutes, 1 second
whatever and like a 100 thousand people were going to be taken up and just of course that never happened either. At least I assume it didn't. I didn't hear that.
1:34:07
1 hour, 34 minutes, 7 seconds
I don't think it happened. Predictions are not really very smart to make particularly when you put actual dates on them. You got
1:34:15
1 hour, 34 minutes, 15 seconds
Well, I appreciate Yeah. I appreciate when they give us an actual date specificity at least, right? Yeah.
1:34:21
1 hour, 34 minutes, 21 seconds
Yeah. and then we know and we can test it. But uh yeah uh yeah, it's just not smart.
1:34:28
1 hour, 34 minutes, 28 seconds
I'll put you on a little bit of the spot here with one more question. What do you think of Chris Bledsoe and his his predictions and prophecies and are you familiar with any of his stuff?
1:34:37
1 hour, 34 minutes, 37 seconds
A little.
1:34:38
1 hour, 34 minutes, 38 seconds
Um I don't really have any comment on it. Fair.
1:34:42
1 hour, 34 minutes, 42 seconds
I'm just a little familiar with it. I'm I'm aware of some of it. There's some [clears throat] some areas in all this that I just don't even
1:34:51
1 hour, 34 minutes, 51 seconds
it's not it's not worth my time to even think about and I'm pretty busy as it is, right? Yeah. Yeah.
1:34:58
1 hour, 34 minutes, 58 seconds
And I'm 76 years old about to turn 77.
1:35:03
1 hour, 35 minutes, 3 seconds
So, you know, time time is marching on, man.
1:35:06
1 hour, 35 minutes, 6 seconds
Well, I guess speaking of which, we'll uh we'll let you have yours back and we'll wrap it up for the night and tell you how much Thank you guys very much. Hey, it was really good meeting you.
1:35:15
1 hour, 35 minutes, 15 seconds
Yeah. Thanks a lot for coming on, Greg.
1:35:17
1 hour, 35 minutes, 17 seconds
All right, we'll do it again and get in touch with Brent. He'd probably come on and you could bring Scott Walter on here. He'd probably love to talk to you. Good deal.
1:35:24
1 hour, 35 minutes, 24 seconds
All right. All right, guys. You guys take care. Yeah. See you back in two weeks. Bye. All right. Byebye.
1:35:31
1 hour, 35 minutes, 31 seconds
All right, Jeeoff. I'm going to close it out. So, uh, if you're up for it, we'll see you back on in two weeks. We'll either just do a discussion and occasionally we'll we'll have a special
1:35:39
1 hour, 35 minutes, 39 seconds
guest on, but we'll we'll just get back to talking psychology and UFOs in two weeks.
1:35:43
1 hour, 35 minutes, 43 seconds
Sounds good to me. All right. Thanks everybody. Have a good night. Catch you later.