Title: Psyched About UFOs! Aug 7 Live Panel Discussion
Source video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-tfRD2xxZw
Transcript supplied by UAPRAD in Dr tim videos up to 2608.docx

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12 seconds
All right, folks. Welcome back to Psyched About UFOs, where we uh have curious, critical, psychosoccially
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19 seconds
informed discussions about UFOs as young modern myth and mystery. Kind of a mouthful, but I am your host, Dr. Tim Bighgam. Welcome or welcome back if you haven't here been here with us before.
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29 seconds
Quick little little intro about me. I've been involved in UFOs off and on for about 35 years since I uh since I spent my formative years in a UFO hotspot
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growing up. Uh I went on to uh obtain a uh PhD in psychology from the University of Georgia. Um went on to be a u community college psychology professor.
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uh currently work as a clinical manager in mental health setting and uh along with some of my other UFO adventures, I got to serve along with the legendary
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Jim Mosley uh as contributing editor to his Saucer Smear UFO magazine. So, we're going to have a uh hopefully a good
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1 minute, 6 seconds
panel discussion tonight. Got a couple folks I see lined up already and uh going to bring on one of our regular guests here, Mr. Jeff Knox. If I can get
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1 minute, 14 seconds
Jeff onto the stage. There he comes. Got a couple folks up already and uh gonna bring on There he is. How you doing, Jeff? Can you hear me? Okay.
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1 minute, 24 seconds
Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me?
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1 minute, 26 seconds
Yeah. Yeah, I can, man. How How you been doing? Oh, same old doing the UFO thing.
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1 minute, 33 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. Never ending, right? And before I forget, want to mention uh special thanks to Taja aka Angel Eyes for for the name of the show. I keep
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1 minute, 41 seconds
forgetting to give her the credit, so throw that out there. I see we've got a Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I think it fits
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really well. I see we've got uh Lou on is going to jump on with us for a little while. Uh Lou, who used to do the uh UFO celebrity review, I think he called it
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1 minute, 55 seconds
at the time, and then uh changed the title and uh talk a little bit with him about his journey through UFO belief and skepticism, maybe. But actually, let's bring him on if you're up for it, Jeff.
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Hey Lou, how you doing, man? What's happening? How we doing?
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Good, good, good, man. See, you had a birthday. Was it yesterday or the day before?
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Uh yeah, the 4th. I think it was Tuesday. Right on. Well, happy birthday, man. Happy birthday. Good to finally talk to you. I know it's been on. We've kind of Yeah.
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2 minutes, 21 seconds
What's uh what's what do you guys want to start off at? I guess we could start off with uh [laughter] what is it? What are they calling this?
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Trunch five. I don't even know why they're using this word trunch. This drop of UFO files, but they seem to be uh
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utterly um not uh not exhilarating the community, at least we can put it that way. But I don't know, Lou, before we even get into that, you want to tell us
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a little bit about your background and how you came into this wacky world of UFOs and your journey?
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I mean, uh, do you have four hours? Uh, no. [laughter] So, yeah, basically I, um, [clears throat] I I'm an actor out here
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in Los Angeles, California. And as long story short as possible for those who don't know, um, have always been into the UFO topic. I I
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had a UFO sighting when I was 13 years old, which was pretty crazy. he had like a uh a big birthday party. Hey, what's up Matt?
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How you doing? Um and ever since then, I mean even before that happened, I had a quite a fascination with the topic. And
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3 minutes, 21 seconds
then um [clears throat] you know, fast forward 30some years and it's 2017 and you know, we get the New York Times drop
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and you know, all of these government whistleblowers and lawmakers and I was like, man, this is this feels different.
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3 minutes, 34 seconds
I've never really seen this aspect of uh of euphology before where it's being taken a little more seriously than it ever has been.
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3 minutes, 43 seconds
Um and so for a couple years I kind of um contemplated doing a UFO podcast last
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show. You know, I when I would I would listen to all the shows and stuff and the one thing that I really noticed in in this medium is that it usually didn't
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sound good, look good, the production level was usually pretty pretty bad. And so I was like, well, I think I know I'm
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as knowledgeable as these guys that are talking and if there's one thing I know I could bring to the table is at least a good production aspect to it. And so my show
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called the unidentified celebrity review.
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Um, which was sort of a uh I titled the show kind of making fun of myself because I I am an actor and nobody knows who the hell I am.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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You know, Z-list actor. So, the unidentified celebrity review. Um, so, uh, so that's how the name of the
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4 minutes, 37 seconds
show came up and you know, and and I had met Lu Alzando a a few months before I started the show.
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He was like meeting him, uh, kind of inspired me to start talking about it publicly because I was very hesitant uh,
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being an actor, having, you know, um, agents and managers and stuff. I didn't want to
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uh, make it weird for them. you know, or or uh I just wasn't sure how they would react to me doing a show like this. But
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again, because it was so much in the public sphere, um they didn't have an issue with it at all. So I ended up, you
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know, doing the show and then about a year into the show, uh, I started the, um, a grassroots UAP initiative called
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the big phone home where I convinced thousands and thousands of people to call, text, write Congress and demand, you know, more answers and for the topic
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to be taken more seriously and uh, that was a big Yeah, it was it was it was huge. Um, and I think it it
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had a you know, a pretty decent part in sort of at the very least seeing things like tanches and uh you know uh uh
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lawmakers having um congressional I don't want to say hearings but settings and conversations, public conversations
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uh with quoteunquote whistleblowers. Um and then about two and a half years into the process we were doing really well.
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um you know I was making enough money to where I didn't have to work as you know a waiter here in Los Angeles and I was having fun but I also had you know
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along this journey I was seeing a lot of red flags and kind of like you know just things just didn't make sense especially when it
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came to you know these you know specifically Lu Alzando you know how he he champions
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this effort but he doesn't really do anything to forward the discussion at least not publicly um other than you
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know just show up at podcasts. You know there's so much more he could do and inform the audience of people that listen to him
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uh to really galvanize and sort of uh coordinate and organize but he doesn't do those things because he doesn't care.
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Um and and eventually I found I I saw how the sausage the UFO sausage was made and I didn't like it. I didn't like the
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way I didn't like that I was helping make it. I didn't like the way it tasted and it made me feel really dirty and
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yucky uh once I kind of saw, you know, oh, these guys are lying.
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Um, you know, and Sorry, I didn't want to cut you off, but I I get the impression that also that that um if you're not willing to play
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ball in the sausage factory, you're kind of blacklisted, right? They don't want to come talk to you if you're really especially when you call them out on their lies uh or their inconsistencies.
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And the thing about my show, we never blatantly for a while anyway didn't call anybody a liar, but we would always
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question stories. We would always have a discussion where where we played both sides and asked questions from both
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sides. And the more we did that, the more I came to realize, oh, these this is just all [ __ ] And um and like I said, it just didn't make me feel good.
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I didn't like, you know, again, I never got into this to be famous or UFO famous. I never did this to to headline
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uh, you know, a UFO convention. I I that was not the reason I did this. I did it because I genuinely wanted to talk about
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it and help the conversation and sort of the uh the movement, if you want to call it that. Um, and uh, once I realized
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that I was being manipulated and used as this sort of mouthpiece for these people, um, and doing all this work
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basically for free, um, and all this organizing and all of this effort and not it not being
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reciprocated whatsoever from the people who say it's the most important conversation on the planet, right? You know, I I you know, we had a a bunch of
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really big red flags. We we questioned those flags. We called them out and like you said, we were just blacklisted and
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ostracized immediately the second we did it. Um, and um, and ever since then, I've just had a very sort of cynical
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hard [snorts] opinion on what is put out there, you know, and and I look at it through a much
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different lens than I did before. And and that that took a lot of soulsearching on my end. I had to really I had to go back and question my
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sighting and my experience and say to myself, okay, you know, is that what I saw? Did I go
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into that experience with a pre-belief system, which I did because I had read
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all sorts of UFO books before I saw that that UFO. Yeah.
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You know what? And then I and then I had to say, well, what are the mathematical odds?
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Like what what is what is more likely that what I saw was an alien spaceship
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from another galaxy dimension portal? Or is it more likely mathematically, just
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the math of it, is it more likely that maybe there was a plasma ball or some sort of weather phenomenon that
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I had never seen before? in 1993, seeing a plasma ball over a party would freak a lot of people out,
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you know, and then and then you compound that with um you know, uh 30 years of just time that that memory changes and
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you know, science has proven that your memories change.
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Um and and memory is not the best form of evidence at [laughter] all, right? um you know and so I had to
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really that was the hardest part was sort of compartmentalizing that experience and saying okay like maybe I just got it wrong
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and uh you know and then you know that's kind of where I'm at today is is you know I don't really put a ton of
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time into this. I'm working on so many other things. Uh, but I do like being a thorn in the side of these sausage
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makers and calling out the nonsense any opportunity I get. Um, and uh, and yeah, so that's kind of my my, you know, four
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or five year journey in in a few minutes.
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Right on, man. Yeah. And I think it takes a lot to to, you know, question your your time, the time that you spent and also your own personal experience,
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right? To take a step back and try to look at that. It's uh it's interesting that it's almost like they I don't want to say they intentionally use but people
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have their own personal experiences and then they do something which is aimed at some larger goal but as I think uh Jack Brewer was just talking about on his
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show a minute ago. How often do any of these UFO you know drives actually help a person decipher what they experienced,
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right? It's more about this disclosure idea which which who the hell even knows what we mean by that depending who you ask which I guess is one reason that it seems to be falling
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apart actively even today right um but well I mean you know you you've got a degree in psychology so that I don't but
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the thing that I've I you know and again you know two and a half years doing the show I interviewed a lot of people and a
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lot of them were experiencers some of them were abductees some of them were just run-of-the-mill experiencers like me where they saw saw something strange.
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Um, and the thing that I really, and it was one of the big red flags I noticed,
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you know, very shortly into doing this was it's a lot ticket. You do not have to scratch deep to find the person who's
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got this crazy experience. Normally almost not 10 out of 10 times it comes with some sort of physical, mental
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abuse, stress, loneliness, drug addiction. Um you know just all these
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real life weights just bearing down on this person. And the only thing that makes them feel any sort of sane is
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telling this story and reliving this experience and just getting anyone to listen to them and validate their
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experience. And you know after talking and I saw you you tag craft beard uh Andreas you know after having many
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discussions with him and him pointing me in he gave me an entire book list of things to read and as to like how the human mind
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can manifest things like scars on your body. And you know if if if the if the if the right conditions are there
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you the brain can do a lot of wild things to make you think and believe you know hearing voices uh you know you
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think you're being followed there's all sort of mental conditions that come with being an experiencer and like I said at
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least for me it didn't take a lot of digging to find that trauma or that that mental stress.
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So You know, for me that was also another big like, oh man, like this is just this is a lot of trauma
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just buried deep underneath uh this experience. And that's how it sort of
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has manifested itself. And they find their their tribe on UFO Twitter. They find it
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in these spaces and it's to the detriment of them because they're in
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there 24 hours a day, seven days a week and it's, you know, they think they're doing something important and special, but
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genuinely, and I wrote this the other day, like eupfology is the drug of choice is na na naivity
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and the the currency to buy that narcotic is your time. Yeah.
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Yeah. And and before you know it, you've been in these spaces, some of these people five or six years, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and
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it's like, yeah, no wonder your family doesn't talk to you or you don't have a relationship with kids or your job sucks or your living condition awful, you
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know? Uh it's because you you've you've dedicated your life to this to this I don't want to call it disease, but it feels like a disease.
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There's there's multiple people I've talked to from the UFO Twitter community that their story basically starts that they were a drug addict or they were an
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alcoholic and they had a UFO sighting and that in their mind saved them from their drug addiction or from their
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alcoholism, but really they've just replaced it with a new drug, you know, that's also destroying their life and
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their social and family situation and whatnot. Yeah, it's true. You nailed it.
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Um, and yeah, it's a, as I think we've we've kind of mentioned before, it's interesting that there's almost like this, especially after 2017, there's
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this kind of they give it an aura of legitimacy. We lost Luther, I guess, for a second, but, you know, it's this like there's legitimacy with these people
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involved in in government UFO research and but then when you look just a little bit deeper, it usually isn't, right? Um,
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they did a pretty good job though I think of of making it seem as if there was some more legitimacy than there actually was. Right.
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These these organizations that have popped up, you know, like the Soul Foundation and SWOPs and they love the
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traffic and the credibility of their members, all these PhDs and, you know, uh, academics that are now into the UFO
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topic and so this adds legitimacy to the topic. But these PhDs are just they're basically noobs. They've got no
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knowledge of the UFO topic. They're just fanboys kind of like the rest of us that just happen to have a degree attached to their name. Yeah.
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But they're being laundered. Their credentials are being trafficked to basically add, you know, credibility to this topic in general.
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Yeah.
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Hey, sorry. I uh I accidentally backed out.
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No, no worries. I I was just saying that they did they did a good job in 2017 of like collecting these people to kind of give UFOs this appearance of legitimacy
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that I don't think is really there when you dig a little bit deeper. Right. But you know these guys who oh they were in the government or the military and therefore they can't be insane or
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believing things that are not true or whatever which certainly they can. Right. Right.
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Well, and when you dig deeper, you find out it's actually just the same crew of usual suspects that have been behind the UFO topic for the 20, 30 years before it
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as well. So, it's not And there's a And you know what I was thinking about when Lou mentioned how much work he put in unpaid, right? It's kind of Scientology, right? It's it's
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you do the work and it's important for me to sit back and not answer questions about specific things that might throw this, you know, this thing ary. But,
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um, yeah, that's just an interesting thing in and of itself. You know, these guys have plenty of time to talk on on
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selected podcasts or whatever or on stage, but if there's someone with pertinent questions that, you know, to try to try to clarify some of this stuff, then no, no, no.
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And, and that's exactly the thing. The second somebody asks him a question, you've seen this with like like Robert Solless like did this like the second
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you p you you poke him on like some of the details, some of the more crazy things about his claim. You get attacked like what what's your motive here? What
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are you doing here? Uh I don't want to be a part of this interview. I'm leaving. You know, same kind of thing with Linda Molden. How like the second
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you like poke them with some real questions and you're not even being rude. You're just, you know, doing what a journalist should do and asking proper
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questions. Nah, they cut you off. Nope, you're a negative influence. We can't deal with you. You're you're blacklisted and nobody goes on your podcast again.
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So, a couple things. Somebody said I was echoey and I think it's because I'm bouncing off of you, Jeff Knox, and as soon as you mute your mic, it goes away.
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Um, so just that's my production brain working. But the two funny things about uh I I've got two great stories, one
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about Robert Salis and one about Linda Molton. Now, the when we did our first big phone home, we had Robert Salis on there with Lou Alzando and everybody was
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kind of like really asking Alzando more questions and he got super pissed and it was like in the middle of the interview
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was like, "What is this, the Lou Alzando show? Like, I'm the one who was who had the experience. I'm the one who's the important one here." It was so funny.
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Yeah, that was awesome. That was just It was so so funny.
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You got to send me the link to that. I would love to watch that.
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Oh my god, dude. I'm sure somebody's clipped it. It's it's it's in an eight hour live stream, so it's tough for me to go back and find, but I'll find it for you and I'll definitely say
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they're always trying to up one up the other. It's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then the second thing that was really funny was uh when
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Linda Molton How was on Kurt Jungle's channel doing an interview with him and it was me and Stephen Cambian were in
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the room and we had submitted questions uh that Kurt asked. The first one was from Cambian and that really set her
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off. that like that pissed her off, but she didn't say anything. And then it was my question that got her off the deep end. And that it was this really awkward
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silence and moment and she accused Kurt of attacking him. And this and the question was so simple and it was, you
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know, in your 30, 40 years of investigative journalism, have you ever gotten anything wrong? And did you
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correct the record? What was it? And and how did you correct it? Just as a journalist, like journalists get [ __ ] wrong all the time.
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and she took it as an affront and sort of an attack on on her on her entire livelihood. Um, and so yeah, man,
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it's it's wild. And it's the same thing with these spaces. Like I was just in one the other day and I rarely go in these anymore and it's this is the
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reason why is because the second you offer any sort of rational explanations like you know the the big thing for
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euphology and eupfologists and people who really believe this stuff is the reason why the government doesn't put it
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out is because of the free energy. The energy companies aren't going to like this. they're they're gonna, you know, they're g they they they they'll kill
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for these kinds of secrets and technology. And my response to that is, well, what about the Rolls-Royce engines
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that sit inside the British naval fleet, submarines, aircraft carriers, where these these engines, these
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nuclearpowered engines that don't you don't have to refuel an aircraft, a 100 ton aircraft carrier for 20 years.
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Like, if that's not free energy, I don't know what is. Like because if if we're all being honest with ourselves, the number one
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sort of source of energy is fuel. It's oil. It's gasoline. And you can have a 100 ton ship that doesn't have to port
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for 20 years because it's got its own clean renewable energy. That's basically free energy that they don't have to pay
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for. And you could bet your ass that Exxon and BP and all of these energy
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companies are lining themselves up for the day when those oils run out and they have to switch to an alternative
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alternative energy. They're going to be the ones who are selling these nuclear engines to your cities and towns and
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municipalities. And these are the things that are going to be powering the next generation, the next infrastructure. And
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technically it'll be free, but we're gonna have to pay for it because you have to pay to install it. You have to
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pay to maintenance these things. Like they're not there's no such thing as free. Nothing's free, you know? And so when you put that out
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there, they freak out and they call you a liar. There's no such thing. I I I Dude, this guy yelled at me for 10
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minutes because he's like, I'm looking at my AI that's got a five million, you know, uh, information point system. this this this and that. I'm like, it's a
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simple Google search. You can find these these engines made by Rolls-Royce. I mean, it is the simplest Google search.
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And and then when you give them the link and you give them the receipts, it's it's not that it's real. It's how you presented it. It's it's your tone.
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It's your tone. That's what that's what we don't like. It's like, no, you don't like it's your belief system that's getting challenged and it's screaming at
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the top of its lungs and the only thing it can do to protect itself is to shut you up and kick you out of the space. Yeah.
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You know, so that's that's the solution for them. And it's dude, it and they wonder why there's no scientists, biologists, you know. Well, they don't want them, right?
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Because the because scientists ask a question and and that's not, you know, acceptable if it's a critical question, right?
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Um, and I' I've said this before. I'm probably repeating myself at this point, but even with those estimates on on how much power a UFO uses or produces or I
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mean Valet comes up with these estimates, but my understanding is he's relying on witness testimony of a of a perception of an event that may not have
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happened in the first place, right? So, a person tells me that they saw a light that was brighter than the sun 30 years ago, right? And I mean, you can't make
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you can't make calculations like that in my opinion, but Yeah, that that there's a case that's been brought up on Twitter in the last
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year or two that is another one of these cases I believe in Louisiana where a scientist was driving by and he saw this really bright light
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and they they basically calculate the power outputs just by like they assume that well a car headlight is this bright
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and so if it seemed this much more brighter then it had to be this many gigawatts of energy and it's like well one you don't know where the light's
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emanating from in the first place you're making guesses and assumptions like your eyes are not a light power you know they
24:48
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don't measure lumens you know accurately it's just it's you know there's another famous case in the Canada the children
24:54
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house photo where a a plane a Canadian air force plane was flying by and took a photo of a bright light in a cloud and you know they estimated that it's you
25:03
25 minutes, 3 seconds
know gigawatts of power and but it's it's all all these they do all this fancy math and all this fancy physics
25:11
25 minutes, 11 seconds
to the naive science proving it, but it's all based on assumptions that they're starting
25:19
25 minutes, 19 seconds
with that come from like narrative testimony and not actual like measured instrument stuff that that issue with those with those
25:27
25 minutes, 27 seconds
equations and stuff that that a lot of people I think I think they end up looking at, you know, something from Eric Davis or something from Hal Putoff.
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They look at these equations which barely anyone can understand, think they're geniuses, but then you look back at the critical assumptions or or you
25:45
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talk to someone who's actually in the field and they're like, "This is this is like cuckam man. I don't I this guy is completely off his rocker. This doesn't
25:52
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even make sense." Yeah. There's a classic uh or I guess I don't know if I'd call it classic, but there's a well-known paper that came out
25:59
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a few years back in a in a journal called Entropy, which is actually by Kevin Nuth and some of the SCU guys, and
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it they're basically doing like, you know, estimates on like the acceleration and geforces of these UFO sightings. And it's full of a lot of advanced math, but
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it's all based on old stories like a UFO report. Somebody said the object went from here to here. And you're assuming, well, that means it had to go two miles in one second, so it went this fast.
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It's like, but you don't actually know that. It's fancy math based on you don't even know if it happened at all in the first place. Exactly.
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Yeah.
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But also, even if even let's say if you did have a clear, wonderful, beautiful video of it, there are all sorts of
26:45
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things that can go wrong with just one angle from one video from one person.
26:50
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And most and not most, every time there's always data missing, even if it comes from the military, whether it be the location, the uh the direction in
26:59
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which the object is traveling, the atmospheric conditions, uh there's so so many flight tracking information, like what else was in the sky at the time. Um
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you know, like I I've always said like if you want to stump a guy like say Mick West, get two angles of it. get it from two
27:16
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different angles and and record as much data as you can. And if you can if you can mathematically prove that this thing
27:24
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went from point A to point B, which was four miles away in this in the blink of an eye, he's going to have a real hard time explaining that, especially if it's
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from two different angles, you know, and and everybody I love this Foo Fighter conversation from World War I, World War II, like all of these Foo Fighters, they
27:41
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were everywhere. Look at all these pictures. And they were they were everywhere. Where are they today? Where did the Foo Fighters go? Like, like
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[laughter]
27:49
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we have more commercial air traffic than we certainly ever had in those days. And we're for sure that air traffic is going
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through the same airspace that those World War II planes traveled through.
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28 minutes
And where are they? Where are all these wonderful pictures of Foo Fighters and video and pilots going, "Hey, why is this not being, you know, because at the
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end of the day, it's a flight safety thing. Like if there are these objects in the sky, you can guarantee that the FAA is going to make it an absolute
28:18
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priority and make it publicly known that our pilots, our thousands and thousands of pilots that are in the air at every
28:26
28 minutes, 26 seconds
second of the day are experiencing these things that are flying dangerously close to our aircraft. We can't explain them and here's all of the data we have on
28:34
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it. Like that would be a big discussion and it is. But they're talking about balloons and birds and drones really are
28:43
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the big big thing now because you know that UFO flap that happened in Jersey that was a that was a publicly discussed
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drone test like you know like you've got companies like FedEx, UPS, the United
28:58
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States Postal Service. Um just in those three they're testing drone systems to deliver packages. There's drone systems
29:06
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that are delivering me medicines and like drones are going to be a massive part of our air airspace within the next
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10 years. it's going to be like just inundated with drone traffic and they're
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testing these things and and and instead of you know people going like looking at the facts that lawmakers and
29:31
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people from the FAA and people from the Department of Homeland Security confirmed that these are testing of drone systems.
29:39
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Uh they you know of course stuff like that is just completely ignored and uh instead they lean into the mystery. they
29:45
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lean into the woo and and they just go, you know, spinning the the tires in the mud and not getting anywhere because
29:53
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they're they're they're just completely ignoring the data.
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And I think there's a there there's these organizations you see I I don't want to name. They all have some disclosure something in the title, right, that are prepare preparing us for
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a future of of of being informed of non-human intelligence. But my my concern is some of these folks might need a little more support when it's
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confirmed there is no non-human intelligence, right? That the lack of of uh finding what they're looking for might be a little more dangerous for
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some people at least than than uh the other side, right? But yeah, so the the drone that whole drone
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incident brings me to a point I was going to make about UFO videos here is one of the problems with UFO videos and I I saw this again when watching this
30:38
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new UFO TV series and it shows these videos is that the v when you have a video it inevitably does not match up
30:46
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with the witness person's testimony. And then they're always like, "Well, the vid it just looks like a dot on the video, but this was like the size of a house
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and it was five feet in front of me and I saw the aliens in the windows and and the videos just never actually match up." So many times you hear a great
31:02
31 minutes, 2 seconds
story and then you see the video and it just looks like a star or a plane. And we saw this with the videos that we got from the drone flap is that all those
31:10
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videos inevitably were just airplanes like coming in on their paths or you know stars you know that's what it all
31:17
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amounted to. So even when we have video it rarely actually matches up with the way that witness perceived their own experience.
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Yeah.
31:26
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Well it's like why would the alien spaceship have uh FAA warning lights on it?
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Why is it why are they coming to Jersey?
31:35
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Why Jersey? Hey, come on. Right. What the [ __ ] is in Jersey? Right. Right.
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And and of course, even when people you could see the actual plane because it was that close, people resorted to, well, it's a UF it's a cloaking device
31:48
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that the UFOs are using to make him look like an airplane. There's always an explanation. Right.
31:56
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Right.
31:58
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That's right. There was a whole narrative that they were morphing into airplane. That was like the big narrative. Yeah. Yeah.
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And how dare any of us say that these just might be airplanes, you know, that people are misidentifying. How how dare us? There's police that saw this.
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Police, right? Yeah.
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Okay. But police mistake things all the time. There was a specific incident of some law enforcement officers, I believe, off the coast that said they
32:26
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watched UFOs all night and they're watching airplanes coming in, you know, to LaGuardia or wherever. It's It's so ridiculous.
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Well, the best UFO videos that have ever been put forth, this is of course like
32:42
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subject to opinion, but the gimbal, the Go Fast, and the Tic Tac, especially the Go Fast is a
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beautiful example of not one, just one pilot, multiple pilots getting something wrong in real time.
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33 minutes
Yeah. They all thought that thing was moving faster than it was. They all thought it was anomalous. They're all screaming at the top of their lungs, "Oh
33:09
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my god, look at that thing. What is it?" And these are highly trained government
33:16
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air force pilots, Navy pilots that got it completely wrong in real time and it's recorded.
33:25
33 minutes, 25 seconds
Yeah.
33:25
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So this idea that police aren't wrong when they see something with their eyes is completely stupid. And and that's the
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one thing about that video that it drives me nuts that nobody ever wants to talk about. Like those are highly trained professionals getting something wrong in real time because when you go
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and do the trigonometry of what how fast the go fast was going, it's 45 miles an hour.
33:47
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Yeah. And Jeeoff, I think you had shared recently that that Heck had even stated that pilots were worse reporters than than the general public maybe because of
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an overconfidence thing. Second to that, I think it was Kurt Patrick who recently said they didn't see the same level of overconfidence in I can't remember if it
34:04
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was like Navy versus Air Force versus Navy or something like that. But that's right. I I just I just read exactly what you're talking about. He
34:11
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said there was a difference in the Navy versus the Air Force sightings because the Navy sightings all happened over water and because of the reflectivity of
34:19
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the sun or the moon and the lights with the water, you get a lot of misidentifications in the Navy versus the Air Force because I I just read what you were talking about.
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Funny. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
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And you know the thing is when when people the point about you know trained observers and like qualified people and how dare you question them they failed
34:38
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to mention that every sighting that Arrow for example has explained and there's hundreds of them were by trained observers military pilots and whatnot
34:47
34 minutes, 47 seconds
and they had explanations. The fact that we have explained sightings just goes to show you being a trained observer isn't
34:54
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really a thing. like military pilots get stuff wrong all the time and we have, you know, thousands of cases to demonstrate that.
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Let's see what else have I got on my my list topics for the week.
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I mean, also just like while you're looking for that, um I love the I you know, the thing with my show is I got to talk to a lot of pilots, not on the
35:21
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show, but just sort of away from the show. Weirdly enough, I've ran into so many pilots out here in Los Angeles. And anytime I did run into one, I always
35:29
35 minutes, 29 seconds
just love picking their brain. Um, and most of these pilots are former Air Force guys. So, there's two great stories that just one pilot gave me, and
35:38
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I was like, "Dude, this is so cool." Um, if you guys have ever noticed, at the front of every single airplane, whether
35:46
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it be commercial or military, there is like a a rod that sticks out the nose of it. Okay. And that [clears throat] what
35:54
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that rod does is it it basically breaks up the static electricity that builds up
36:01
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on the plane while it's flying through the air and all of that friction. And so without that rod, what pilots were
36:10
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seeing when they were flying in the sky, the the pilots would see the Have you ever seen those um
36:18
36 minutes, 18 seconds
remember back at Spencer back in the day? They would have that globe and you would touch the globe and would hit your finger. Um, that's what it looked like
36:26
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on the canopy while they were flying and sometimes it went as far back as the passengers and it would freak people the
36:34
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[ __ ] out. They had no clue what the [ __ ]
36:36
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it was for a long time and eventually they figured out, oh, it's a static electricity buildup. We just need to put something to break that
36:44
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static up. And so that's what that rod is. So, it's like things like that that can be that should should be sort of the
36:52
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the the examples that we use when because airspace it's not a an atmosphere that
37:01
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humans are normally operating in. Like it's it's not something we live in, you know, we we're not birds. We don't we're
37:09
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not up there all the time. And so sometimes things happen in those atmospheres that seem unexplainable, but after a certain amount of time and
37:16
37 minutes, 16 seconds
research and money spent into it, you figure out, oh, it's just a static buildup. And it's the same thing where where the same pilot told me about a story
37:24
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when he was in the Air Force, he wandered, he had to go to a base to to get briefed on something. And on his way
37:32
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to this meeting, he walks into a hanger and he sees this massive black dome that looks like it's got black little windows on it.
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And he's like, "If I didn't know any better or if I walked into that hanger with a belief system, I would have
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walked out of that hanger going, holy [ __ ] we've got alien technology." This it was the the most the most odd thing that he had ever
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seen. And then about 12 years later, 12 years,
38:06
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he sees the exact same thing sitting on top of a helicopter. Oh wow. Okay.
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This is how we get whistleblowers. Correct. Correct.
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That's exactly right. They wander into spaces that they don't have the context.
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they're not read into these things and they walk out saying to themselves, "Oh my god, we we've got the alien tech and
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38 minutes, 30 seconds
turns out, no, it was just a radar dome for for helicopters that they were testing at the time, you know." So, it's
38:38
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like it stories like that that really stick out to me and I always love sharing because it just goes to show
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like like there are things that are sitting in hangers that look really weird
38:52
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and if you're not read in on it or you don't have nothing to do with it from a from a security standpoint, you know,
39:00
39 minutes
and you walk in with that belief system, you're going to walk out convinced that you saw aliens. And I think it's, you know, even Kirk Patrick had discussed
39:08
39 minutes, 8 seconds
like how, you know, and this is kind of shady. It's it's [ __ ] up, but it's a good way to determine who keeps their
39:16
39 minutes, 16 seconds
mouth shut and who doesn't. You know, you bring these guys in to a skiff. You give them what they're going to be working on, and then you call them back the next day, and you say, "Hey, we got
39:24
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one more thing to show you." And then they give you pictures of alien bodies and craft and, you know, all of these things that make you think it's real, and then they are [ __ ] convinced.
39:34
39 minutes, 34 seconds
That's it. Like I I saw all the goodies in a skiff. It has to be real. And it's just a test to see what they do with that information. Yeah. And almost
39:42
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especially if they've got a belief system, almost 10 times out of 10, they start talking about it. And then now they know, okay, we can't trust this guy,
39:50
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you know, and and they use security clearances or they just don't get to work on the really cool stuff. So again, just wonderful examples, wonderful
39:58
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stories that that I don't think get spoken about enough or or sort of discussed. uh you know and and he just gives you a little perspective on to
40:06
40 minutes, 6 seconds
what especially whistleblowers see or hear or whatever.
40:12
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And I think there's a I've talked with Craft about this before. I think there's maybe a personality type or or something that that is susceptible to being the
40:20
40 minutes, 20 seconds
guy that sees something and then therefore decides that he needs to make it public without maybe having that context, right? And that's certainly could be could be dangerous. And you
40:29
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know, also if you if you posited any of those any of those explanations prior to finding evidence that they were true, right, that maybe something was a plasma
40:38
40 minutes, 38 seconds
ball or it was a special project or it was a bug flying across the screen, right? A UFO proponent will say, "Well, that's such a stretch." Well, any of
40:45
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those explanations is much less of a stretch than assuming that some other intelligence has traveled 100 million years at the speed of light, which you
40:53
40 minutes, 53 seconds
can't reach anyway, right? anything would be a less of a stretch for an explan anyway. Um, and that's exactly how something is a
41:02
41 minutes, 2 seconds
UFO sighting in the first place. It's an odd set of probabilities and circumstances that led something to be interpreted in that way. This is
41:10
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something like like Merrick has attacked Mick West over some of his explanations like the the set of circumstances where all these things had to have happened
41:18
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for this to have been a UFO sighting is just so unlikely. But as you just pointed out, it's really it's not though because we know those things actually do
41:27
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happen in this reality. We know these mistakes happen. It's much more likely that even this chain of circumstances
41:34
41 minutes, 34 seconds
happened in that order than it is an alien spaceship came down and you know let take some pictures.
41:41
41 minutes, 41 seconds
Hey, Paranormal is asking about Lou versus uh Grush. Is it a real feud or are they Anybody have any thoughts on on that one?
41:48
41 minutes, 48 seconds
I [snorts] I I honestly think it's a real feud. I I think it's two guys who are competing for media attention with, you know, an interest in the topic, a
41:57
41 minutes, 57 seconds
love for themselves and they each want to be the number one and they both they're going about it in different ways and they've got their different teams
42:05
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and uh I don't think it's like a, you know, a direct rivalry where they're in contact a lot and trying to outdo each other, but I think there's like a no, I
42:12
42 minutes, 12 seconds
want to be the top guy. No, I want to be the top guy. What I'm saying is right, what I'm saying is right. And frankly, I think they're both equally linked.
42:20
42 minutes, 20 seconds
Yeah. Except I I will give credit to Grush. He doesn't conduct himself as publicly or [clears throat] have a team of
42:28
42 minutes, 28 seconds
misfits and lawyers and idiots online, you know, attacking anybody who questions his uh his version of the
42:36
42 minutes, 36 seconds
story. Um he's not that interactive with with the uh community. But there's something here that that stuck out to me that I definitely just wanted to touch
42:44
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on. Uh, and it was from Menopoulos. He said, um, he was talking about, you
42:51
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know, Kevin Day and how he, you know, like he he writes like poor Kevin Day thinking he was actually seeing objects dropping from 80,000 ft to sea level in
43:00
43 minutes
seconds on radar. What a lot of people do not discuss about the spy one radar system that Kevin Day was working on
43:08
43 minutes, 8 seconds
during that exercise, what it was brand new. It was a brand new radar system
43:15
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that they had just installed and they were running tests on like it was they were testing the radar system. This is a
43:24
43 minutes, 24 seconds
radar system that has the capability of tracking an object the size of a baseball
43:30
43 minutes, 30 seconds
80,000 ft in the in the air. Like this is a especially in what was it 2004 when that happened? It was some of the most
43:38
43 minutes, 38 seconds
advanced tech that the United States military had in their inventory and they were literally figuring it out figuring
43:45
43 minutes, 45 seconds
out how to use it. And that is the perfect time to for a Loheed Martin or
43:54
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or or so or Boeing to test their brand new top secret toy that they're trying to sell to the government. And you know,
44:02
44 minutes, 2 seconds
they get this wild story that comes out of these guys like Kevin Day and Sean Cahill, who was the biggest like
44:10
44 minutes, 10 seconds
fabricator and liar out of all these whistleblowers. Like, you know, he claims he saw these objects from the
44:16
44 minutes, 16 seconds
boat and it was 60 160 miles away or something like that. It's like there's no way the curvature of the earth would
44:24
44 minutes, 24 seconds
prevent you from seeing this thing. Um, but he stuck with it and uh, you know, and yeah, I felt bad for Kevin Day
44:32
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because I think he again went into this job with a belief system, had this experience. I'm sure what he what he
44:41
44 minutes, 41 seconds
experienced on that radar system actually happened, you know, and he he interpreted that as objects dropping
44:49
44 minutes, 49 seconds
from the sky, you know, 80k to sea level in the split second when really he just he was learning how to use this radar
44:56
44 minutes, 56 seconds
system. Um, and but because he's got time you would expect something weird to happen would be the first time you're testing the radar. Right.
45:02
45 minutes, 2 seconds
Correct. Yeah. But he's also got a a cadre of people around him going, "Yeah, man. Like that's what you saw. They had to been aliens like you know and they
45:11
45 minutes, 11 seconds
and they goat him on and I it it ruined his life. Like he got a divorce like his life was ruined because of this belief.
45:21
45 minutes, 21 seconds
Um, and the fact that nobody believed him, you know, and that's that's like that's sad and it's powerful, but that's what guys like Lu Alzando and David
45:29
45 minutes, 29 seconds
Grush and Shawn Cahill and and uh even to a point David Fraver were doing to
45:36
45 minutes, 36 seconds
people, you know, and it's it's it's ir uh what's the word I'm looking for? I
45:44
45 minutes, 44 seconds
irresponsible and sort of morbid. It's just a morbid thing to do to to your fellow servicemen.
45:52
45 minutes, 52 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
45:54
45 minutes, 54 seconds
But did you guys heard what I said that Fraver basically said to me about Kevin Day, right? Like and you can actually
46:01
46 minutes, 1 second
see him respond to my question in HBO Vice's little uh interview from when Fraver was here in McMinnville, Oregon.
46:09
46 minutes, 9 seconds
They don't show me asking the question, but I was asking, you know, about something Kevin Day had said. And Fraver basically responds like, "You can't
46:16
46 minutes, 16 seconds
trust this guy. Like, you know, they're in it for, you know, money and attention and celebrity and so you can't listen to these other guys, you know, and it's
46:24
46 minutes, 24 seconds
like, oh, wait a second. Like, but we can listen to you." Just me. Yeah. Only me. Yeah.
46:28
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Yeah. Well, I've I love um for for about a year and a half I sat on audio that that you know because Jeremy McGawan was
46:37
46 minutes, 37 seconds
had his Osiris and the thing was a huge microphone like he recorded everything and and he had a recording and I just
46:46
46 minutes, 46 seconds
like I when I heard this the first time I was like what an [ __ ] but he had this recording of Sean Cahill talking about the ego of David Fraver and how he
46:55
46 minutes, 55 seconds
didn't believe any of this stuff was real and he knew it was like black project stuff.
47:00
47 minutes
Um, and he David Fraver knew this was a test and Yeah, that's what I remember most about
47:08
47 minutes, 8 seconds
hearing first talking about it. Yeah, he knew this was a black tech testing and he was probably the only one because
47:16
47 minutes, 16 seconds
he was the commander of that of that flight group and everyone else that was following him were brand new pilots. And
47:25
47 minutes, 25 seconds
it's funny like when you listen to Alex Dietrich, I mean this whole this whole event according to Fraver was like a 10 or 15 minute thing and Alex Dietrich only remembers 5 seconds of it.
47:35
47 minutes, 35 seconds
I remember that. Yeah. Very odd.
47:37
47 minutes, 37 seconds
That's that those definitely don't line up as far as time is concerned. And um and it like
47:45
47 minutes, 45 seconds
just just to add just to quickly just to add to what you're saying, not only was it like all these people's like new training and he was the leader
47:52
47 minutes, 52 seconds
of the group, it was like her first day flying with him.
47:57
47 minutes, 57 seconds
And so if it's if it's your first day with your commander, do you want to go against what anything he says or or disagree with him really on anything?
48:07
48 minutes, 7 seconds
Nope. you're going to be inclined to just go along with what this guy who is your superior is telling you on your first day. Shut up% agree and just go
48:16
48 minutes, 16 seconds
along with it 100%. Also like like the idea of being quote a good soldier, like putting out
48:24
48 minutes, 24 seconds
this narrative publicly that you saw this anomalous alien type technology when in reality
48:33
48 minutes, 33 seconds
you were just really testing black, you know, humanmade tech. Um, and and you
48:40
48 minutes, 40 seconds
know, and doing like the military is very well known for doing stuff like this all the time. I mean, he even said in an interview how he would be flying
48:48
48 minutes, 48 seconds
in the desert and he'd see campfires down below and he would glide in with his [ __ ] jet and then would silently just turn off
48:57
48 minutes, 57 seconds
the engines and glide in. And as soon as he got to the campfire, he'd hit his boosters and take off. And the next day, they would just look for in the newspaper or or the reports for UFO
49:06
49 minutes, 6 seconds
sightings. And he was like, "Yeah, that was like their version of a good time, you know?" And and then you
49:13
49 minutes, 13 seconds
compound that with Alex Dietrich's husband sat on uh the ATIP. He was I was I was wondering did they did they
49:21
49 minutes, 21 seconds
get married after her sighting and that's what led to the meeting or did they know each other before? Do you have any idea the order of That's a good I want to say they knew
49:29
49 minutes, 29 seconds
each other before. I think they were married when that whole thing went down. That's interesting.
49:36
49 minutes, 36 seconds
If you look at paran what paranormal just wrote too they they were both on the Discovery Channel show together I think they were also on 60 Minutes
49:44
49 minutes, 44 seconds
together and what Paranormal just wrote he's totally right you know that would suggest they probably both had media training of some kind
49:52
49 minutes, 52 seconds
because they both done so many interviews together and they're actually both really wellspoken on them you know it's not public speaking in these shows and these radio it's you know it looks
50:01
50 minutes, 1 second
easier than it is some sometimes you can you can say the wrong thing you you know, they obviously knew what they were doing.
50:08
50 minutes, 8 seconds
Yeah. Also, they I think the part of that media training is, hey, just clobber the questionner and the people
50:16
50 minutes, 16 seconds
who are asking questions and the audience with your service record and you're an American. You're a hero.
50:23
50 minutes, 23 seconds
You're fighting for freedom. And that's what they just bash you over the head with. So that way there's never a, "Hey, wait a second. Maybe you got this wrong.
50:32
50 minutes, 32 seconds
Well, how could I? I'm an American hero.
50:35
50 minutes, 35 seconds
I'm so well trained. I fly billion-dollar jets. Like, why? How could I get that wrong? I don't think so.
50:41
50 minutes, 41 seconds
You know, it's kind of insulting question. And that like that was the eggshells that my show walked on for a couple of years was like, it's tough to
50:50
50 minutes, 50 seconds
question these these inconsistencies because they're American heroes. And the second that you do,
50:57
50 minutes, 57 seconds
you're you're lambasted and ostracized and and and you know, literally crucified [laughter] for for daring to question this American
51:06
51 minutes, 6 seconds
hero. And here we are like we're almost 10 years out from 2017 in this whole Lu Alzando thing. And now he is everything.
51:14
51 minutes, 14 seconds
Everybody could see the sh I think most people can see the Sherrod, you know, and see how full of [ __ ] he is
51:21
51 minutes, 21 seconds
and how inconsistent he is. and and um like one of my favorite things happening right now is this guy Clauss who was a fullblown
51:30
51 minutes, 30 seconds
you know Lou Alzando supporter and his entire reality is crumbling before his eyes and I see a little bit of me in him
51:37
51 minutes, 37 seconds
right now where he is just lashing out at everything that he now see it's I
51:44
51 minutes, 44 seconds
always describe this moment for people as that moment in they live where he puts on the glasses for the first time
51:52
51 minutes, 52 seconds
and As soon as you put on the glasses and you could see the [ __ ] with the filter, you never want to take them off.
52:00
52 minutes
Yeah. And it's impossible to take them off at that point because now you question everything in a much different way. And that's what sort of turning
52:09
52 minutes, 9 seconds
this skeptic, you know, heel is. It's it's putting on the glasses from they live and seeing through every aspect of
52:18
52 minutes, 18 seconds
[ __ ] that this topic puts on. And I think the reason why people hate me so much [laughter] is because I used to believe it.
52:28
52 minutes, 28 seconds
And I so I know their argument. I know where they're coming from. I know what they're going to say. And I immediately have a response and an answer that
52:36
52 minutes, 36 seconds
debunks it or just at least brings it down more to a level of tangible reality. It drives them crazy. They they
52:44
52 minutes, 44 seconds
think I'm just the biggest [ __ ] on the planet because I'm rude. No, it's just like I'm sorry. I'm not going to accept your [ __ ] anymore. I I can't.
52:53
52 minutes, 53 seconds
I just can't. The glasses are on.
52:55
52 minutes, 55 seconds
Yeah. And I mean, for something that significant, you you need to be able to respond to criticism. I mean, there's no other way to to say it, right, beyond
53:02
53 minutes, 2 seconds
we're talking about something that's changing of be a ch, you know, a total change in how we understand everything,
53:09
53 minutes, 9 seconds
right? And to be able to to respond to some questions and criticism seems reasonable. But yeah, you would you would expect, you
53:17
53 minutes, 17 seconds
know, if it was a real paradigm shift that's taking place, you would expect them to want people poke trying to poke holes. That that's what good science
53:26
53 minutes, 26 seconds
requires. But as soon as someone pokes the the hole, you know, people throw a fit and and they want to dismiss it.
53:33
53 minutes, 33 seconds
Yeah. Why Why do you want the bunk?
53:35
53 minutes, 35 seconds
Debunking's not bad. You should want to get rid of all the bunk so you can focus on the good [ __ ] You don't want
53:46
53 minutes, 46 seconds
Oh, they hate their belief system being put up on the murder board because by the time you you you
53:55
53 minutes, 55 seconds
hit it with rationality and facts, there's nothing left on the board.
54:00
54 minutes
And they and again like it's the second that they get like I mean if Steve Long was here, he it happens all the time.
54:08
54 minutes, 8 seconds
like you if you try to get them to boil down to one thing, right? Whatever that one thing is, and you finally get them
54:16
54 minutes, 16 seconds
to a point where they're like, "Okay, you're right. Yes, that doesn't make sense." The next words out of their mouth is, "But what about this?" Whoa,
54:25
54 minutes, 25 seconds
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You just glossed over the fact that you've been arguing for 45 minutes about how right you were,
54:33
54 minutes, 33 seconds
and now you've admitted to me you're wrong. Let's sit on that for a second because if you're wrong on that, what else are you wrong on? You know, let's
54:41
54 minutes, 41 seconds
acknowledge that. Let's let's let's really sort of absorb that.
54:47
54 minutes, 47 seconds
And uh it's ne they never want to do that. It's always like, but what about the aerial school sighting? What about this?
54:54
54 minutes, 54 seconds
Travis Walton passed all these lie detector tests is my favorite, you know. Yeah.
54:59
54 minutes, 59 seconds
Except for the ones he didn't pass, right? Which is meaning meaningful to me anyway, you know, the lie detector thing. But Uh
55:06
55 minutes, 6 seconds
Tim, I I gotta ask any progress with the uh the device I got helmet. No, honestly, I haven't I haven't done much else with it,
55:15
55 minutes, 15 seconds
honestly. I do have the software. Um I managed to get I had actually up on my screen here in the background, but I
55:22
55 minutes, 22 seconds
haven't uh haven't connected the helmet yet to see if it seems like it might actually be sending the signal. So, getting closer. But yeah, let's see if I
55:30
55 minutes, 30 seconds
can I just got to ask because I'm I'm super intrigued. I I'm completely naive to this. When I when I hear God helmet, I think of Chris Bledstoneone.
55:38
55 minutes, 38 seconds
No, you got to hear you got you got to tell them about this is this is a cool thing.
55:42
55 minutes, 42 seconds
Yeah. Um you may remember this 10 or 15 20 years ago now on just about every documentary you'd see on the Discovery
55:49
55 minutes, 49 seconds
Channel. They'd always every UFO documentary they'd say, "Well, another explanation is being researched by Canadian neuros neuroscientist Michael
55:57
55 minutes, 57 seconds
Persinger at Laurentian University who is causing uh hallucinogenic experiences while using transcranial magnetic
56:05
56 minutes, 5 seconds
stimulation of the of the brain." Um anyway, long story short, I got a hold of one of the helmets
56:14
56 minutes, 14 seconds
um that he used from a friend of the show, Dr. Greg Little who was a guest recently. Can't seem to get my Oh,
56:21
56 minutes, 21 seconds
there. Here we go. Here at least is the I got the software going. So, uh the helmet will play um
56:30
56 minutes, 30 seconds
play tones or play you send signals that are supposed to uh penetrate your skull and land on your inner temporal lobe and
56:38
56 minutes, 38 seconds
uh lead to the what they call the sensed presence. Now, there have been some debate as to whether it works or doesn't work, but yeah. So, I got a hold of one of those.
56:49
56 minutes, 49 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
56:50
56 minutes, 50 seconds
It's only a, you know, small concern, right? Uh, here was a question for Lou, by the way, that just popped. What do you think about Grush going on Hollywood
56:59
56 minutes, 59 seconds
and encroaching on your space? What's he Oh, he's working on a Grush is on a working on a show or something now.
57:06
57 minutes, 6 seconds
What's the I don't know the details on that.
57:08
57 minutes, 8 seconds
Yeah. So, there's there I mean, apparently I don't know. I I I haven't been able to confirm this or not, but
57:15
57 minutes, 15 seconds
yeah, all of these guys are becoming consultants for films now. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, they're all fiction. Yeah.
57:23
57 minutes, 23 seconds
Um, you know, there which right off the jump tells you that they see this as an ongoing long-term, you know, lifelong retirement plan.
57:30
57 minutes, 30 seconds
Yeah. Um, but also like it just goes to sh like there's always this this, oh well they made they made so many sacrifices and
57:38
57 minutes, 38 seconds
they've been fired and they've this and that and they're being attacked. It's just like doesn't look like it to me. I mean, he's being paid as a consultant
57:46
57 minutes, 46 seconds
for a major Hollywood studio to consult on [ __ ] You know, if you want to be attacked, say something publicly negative about UFOs,
57:54
57 minutes, 54 seconds
they'll call your job and everything else. Right.
57:56
57 minutes, 56 seconds
Right. Right. or or just like actually whistleblow something and let me see some real consequences like the kid who
58:03
58 minutes, 3 seconds
who leaked some some classified data over like a um a Discord server and they showed up to his house with a small
58:11
58 minutes, 11 seconds
military armada or how about you know uh uh um Snow Snowden you know and the
58:19
58 minutes, 19 seconds
stuff that he's revealed and he's living in a different country for [ __ ] sake somebody arrested like I want to see somebody arrested for their
58:28
58 minutes, 28 seconds
whistleblowing, not just like pat on the back and given a movie deal, you know, like [laughter] or a podcast or or
58:36
58 minutes, 36 seconds
just to get a sense of of of how ridiculous the whole the whole, you know, whistleblowing thing is. The guy I think one of the the last times they
58:44
58 minutes, 44 seconds
that the someone was actually like really sought after and targeted by the DOJ was when uh someone didn't even leak
58:54
58 minutes, 54 seconds
information. Someone confirmed information to a reporter trying to get a second source to confirm a story about Stuckset and they didn't even go after
59:03
59 minutes, 3 seconds
the guy who leaked it. They went after the guy who confirmed it and then they decided to not even continue pressing charges because they didn't even want to make much more press about it.
59:12
59 minutes, 12 seconds
Yeah, there were barely any consequences. Uh, I think the the I think there was a conviction that I actually I can't
59:19
59 minutes, 19 seconds
remember, but it was really like what you would you know these guys make it out is if they say anything they're they're done. They're going to jail and the jail.
59:27
59 minutes, 27 seconds
There's all my connections by the way for my for the god helmet. I got to get these electrodes stuck back onto the the c. But yeah, sorry Matt. Go ahead.
59:34
59 minutes, 34 seconds
No, it's all good. I'm glad you showed it because it's a it's a cool thing. And yeah, the consequences were so limited because the judge's discretion was
59:42
59 minutes, 42 seconds
involved. the DOJ didn't want to make a big deal of it. And so these whistleblowers talk as if if they say a single thing, they're they're screwed.
59:49
59 minutes, 49 seconds
When the reality is there's a there's a lot more nuance here. And so these guys just blow up the the you know the consequences that aren't really there.
1:00:01
1 hour, 1 second
Yeah. Yeah.
1:00:02
1 hour, 2 seconds
But we get stories of air tags that were supposedly left in someone's car that they found or brakes that were
1:00:09
1 hour, 9 seconds
brakes being cut. Yeah. when he was drunk and left the scene of an accident uh DWI style you know so we get stories
1:00:18
1 hour, 18 seconds
that they're being persecuted lack of any real evidence and more than likely paranoid delusions on their parts if there's any
1:00:27
1 hour, 27 seconds
one that I have always found interesting and we've talked about this I know a little bit before the Gulf Breeze stuff where you had those those guys go AWOL from Germany and show up in Gulf Breeze
1:00:35
1 hour, 35 seconds
they never served any time in prison uh Vance Davis he wrote this silly book you with with the so-called explanation of the the Ouija board and all that, but he
1:00:44
1 hour, 44 seconds
claims in the book that George Bush pardoned them or something. And so, I mean, point being, you think that these these AWOL intelligence officers who go
1:00:53
1 hour, 53 seconds
overseas might face some kind of repercussions for and I don't know, somebody suggested maybe it was just so embarrassing that that the army didn't want to do anything with it because
1:01:01
1 hour, 1 minute, 1 second
you've got these guys who go awall over a Ouija board and UFOs, but I don't know. That's what happens a lot of the time that there was there were cases in
1:01:08
1 hour, 1 minute, 8 seconds
in in Vietnam of a lot of war crimes that were investigated thoroughly and then once they went up the chain they
1:01:16
1 hour, 1 minute, 16 seconds
said don't do anything with this shut this down we don't want the embarrassment we don't want America looking bad we don't want our armed
1:01:23
1 hour, 1 minute, 23 seconds
services looking bad so a lot of these things go up the chain they get investigated and then nothing happens because as you said there's a fear of embarrassment or or of information that
1:01:32
1 hour, 1 minute, 32 seconds
they just would rather not get out that they don't I'm going unpunished.
1:01:38
1 hour, 1 minute, 38 seconds
There was another um I saw a little short documentary on YouTube about this a year or two ago. There was another instance of a military base where the
1:01:46
1 hour, 1 minute, 46 seconds
guys in the barracks or whatever started all using a Ouija board and it got so out of hand that the base commander started hanging signs that said no Ouija
1:01:54
1 hour, 1 minute, 54 seconds
boards on, you know, in barracks. And so anyway, I thought that was interesting.
1:01:58
1 hour, 1 minute, 58 seconds
Well, I mean, this kind of stuff goes all the way back. I remember I interviewed the uh the grandson or the
1:02:05
1 hour, 2 minutes, 5 seconds
son of Jesse Marcel, the guy who held up the UFOs parts or at Roswell. Yeah.
1:02:12
1 hour, 2 minutes, 12 seconds
And um and I and I was asking him and again just one of the many red flags
1:02:18
1 hour, 2 minutes, 18 seconds
like uh what happened to your your grandfather
1:02:25
1 hour, 2 minutes, 25 seconds
after the whole Roswell thing? Cuz to me it was a it was either a a massive just
1:02:32
1 hour, 2 minutes, 32 seconds
mistaken identity [ __ ] or B it was a real alien spacecraft that he leaked
1:02:42
1 hour, 2 minutes, 42 seconds
you know for a radio program to talk about and bring all this attention to the base. Yeah.
1:02:49
1 hour, 2 minutes, 49 seconds
What happened to him in his career? Was he ever demoted? Like usually something like this of this level of this this magnitude of screw-up happens.
1:02:58
1 hour, 2 minutes, 58 seconds
[clears throat] You're like stationed to some tower in Helsinki or something you know you're never heard or seen from again or you're you know like Richard
1:03:06
1 hour, 3 minutes, 6 seconds
Dodie you're you're stationed to go be a cafeteria patrolman. Um Marcel [snorts] got promoted throughout his entire career.
1:03:14
1 hour, 3 minutes, 14 seconds
Yeah. Um, and I think part of the reason why is just like David Fraver, they put out the story that they wanted put out.
1:03:23
1 hour, 3 minutes, 23 seconds
They did it beautifully and they created this lore around this this top secret,
1:03:30
1 hour, 3 minutes, 30 seconds
you know, nuclear device listening program that they were working on, you know, to listen to the Russians detonate
1:03:38
1 hour, 3 minutes, 38 seconds
nuclear bombs on the other side of the planet. Um, and instead of people talking about that, they got people talking about alien spaceships crashing.
1:03:48
1 hour, 3 minutes, 48 seconds
Yeah.
1:03:49
1 hour, 3 minutes, 49 seconds
You know, it's And again, I guess, you know, do you want to do you want to acknowledge that one of your your military intelligence guys finds a bundle of balsa wood with
1:03:57
1 hour, 3 minutes, 57 seconds
some superglue and some aluminum foil on it and says it's a flying saucer, right?
1:04:00
1 hour, 4 minutes
And it seems like that's actually what happened. But maybe you don't want to put that out there. I don't know.
1:04:05
1 hour, 4 minutes, 5 seconds
I think that's the material they gave him. And they and and I think like a good soldier, he went out in front of the cameras and said, "Yeah, this is
1:04:13
1 hour, 4 minutes, 13 seconds
what we found." you know, because he knew that lie was protecting at that time. It was the it was only second to
1:04:21
1 hour, 4 minutes, 21 seconds
the Manhattan project as far as secrecy is concerned, you know, and and what a lot of people don't realize or
1:04:28
1 hour, 4 minutes, 28 seconds
understand about the the mogul project is that mogul balloon, that listening device,
1:04:36
1 hour, 4 minutes, 36 seconds
it was when it's stringed out in our atmosphere, it's taller than the Eiffel Tower.
1:04:41
1 hour, 4 minutes, 41 seconds
Yeah. the Eiffel Tower in the sky, you know, like that crashes on some ranchers, you know, cowfield. He's going
1:04:49
1 hour, 4 minutes, 49 seconds
to be like, "What the [ __ ] is it?" Especially when you start looking at again like that story I told about that guy who walks into a a hanger and sees a
1:04:57
1 hour, 4 minutes, 57 seconds
dome like it it had stuff like that on there and [laughter] and when you see that strewn out across your property, the first thing you think
1:05:06
1 hour, 5 minutes, 6 seconds
of is, "Holy [ __ ] this is alien." Yeah. The thing in the news, right? The flying saucers. Yeah. Yeah. And they they works.
1:05:14
1 hour, 5 minutes, 14 seconds
That's that's something about Roswell that people don't really get in their mind. They think weather balloon. They think of what you see like now somebody
1:05:21
1 hour, 5 minutes, 21 seconds
puts up a singular balloon with a little thing on it and it goes off. No. As as Lou pointed out, these were trains that
1:05:28
1 hour, 5 minutes, 28 seconds
were as tall as a skyscraper. There were 20 to 30 balloons and a whole radar train underneath it. It wasn't just like
1:05:36
1 hour, 5 minutes, 36 seconds
a little balloon. And so when they say like how could that made so much debris as well? Again, it wasn't one balloon
1:05:43
1 hour, 5 minutes, 43 seconds
with a little thing. It was a big ass train, you know, as big as a skyscraper that, you know, would have crashed down there. So
1:05:51
1 hour, 5 minutes, 51 seconds
yeah, and in 1947 that would have looked really weird. Oh yeah, absolutely. Really, really weird.
1:05:59
1 hour, 5 minutes, 59 seconds
And yet still they were able to pick it up in some boxes and haul it away in the vehicle and bring it back. like it
1:06:06
1 hour, 6 minutes, 6 seconds
wasn't so much debris that it like took up a whole ton of space, right?
1:06:10
1 hour, 6 minutes, 10 seconds
You know, I think it's funny these people that not only do you get the primary witness that becomes a bit of UFO celebrity, but like in the case of
1:06:18
1 hour, 6 minutes, 18 seconds
Roswell, Marcel's son became a UFO celebrity because he allegedly touched the debris when he was a kid. Now you
1:06:26
1 hour, 6 minutes, 26 seconds
got the grandkids of that person, you know, getting in on the game. It's like if you had a relative involved in sighting,
1:06:34
1 hour, 6 minutes, 34 seconds
you're set. You know, you can make a UFO career out of it.
1:06:38
1 hour, 6 minutes, 38 seconds
Selling I beams and all kinds of stuff, right? I've got an I-beam.
1:06:42
1 hour, 6 minutes, 42 seconds
I've got Yeah. with the symbols on it. I bought it at [laughter] the museum many years ago.
1:06:49
1 hour, 6 minutes, 49 seconds
Man.
1:06:52
1 hour, 6 minutes, 52 seconds
Oh, well guys, it's a good conversation, but uh my pets are starting to get uh well, they're I I gave them treats and
1:07:00
1 hour, 7 minutes
they kind of settled down for now, but I'm sure it won't be long again. So, what do you got coming up in the near future, Lou? Any more UFO stuff?
1:07:09
1 hour, 7 minutes, 9 seconds
Uh, no. God, no. No. I am out of that. I mean, I'm working Matt has read the script. I'm working on a a mockumentary
1:07:18
1 hour, 7 minutes, 18 seconds
about euphology. um kind of like it's it's very funny out of me. I enjoyed it.
1:07:26
1 hour, 7 minutes, 26 seconds
Yeah, it's basically bested show, but instead of a dog convention, it's a UFO convention. And uh yeah, we've gotten some some great attention. I'm just
1:07:35
1 hour, 7 minutes, 35 seconds
working on it constantly, just trying to sharpen it, make it better at every every turn. Um,
1:07:42
1 hour, 7 minutes, 42 seconds
and uh, yeah, I mean, I guess technically I I'm kind of still in it,
1:07:49
1 hour, 7 minutes, 49 seconds
but as far as uh, you know, like doing podcasts or or, you know, spaces or anything like that, like I mean, if
1:07:57
1 hour, 7 minutes, 57 seconds
somebody asks me like, you know, like you guys did and and it's a good conversation, I'm always always interested to discuss this aspect of it
1:08:05
1 hour, 8 minutes, 5 seconds
because I think the more people I mean, in a lot of ways, I feel uh an obligation
1:08:12
1 hour, 8 minutes, 12 seconds
uh as especially for the first couple years after I sort of turned heel on the eupfology, [clears throat] right?
1:08:19
1 hour, 8 minutes, 19 seconds
Um I I felt a lot of guilt and obligation to sort of course correct all of the what I saw as damage I did.
1:08:28
1 hour, 8 minutes, 28 seconds
Um you know, it wasn't intentional damage. It wasn't like I was trying to deceive people on purpose. I I had to
1:08:35
1 hour, 8 minutes, 35 seconds
just come to the realization myself. And um so you know conversations like this I always enjoy because you know at some
1:08:43
1 hour, 8 minutes, 43 seconds
point maybe somebody sees it and says oh yeah that does make sense. You know it it is kind of silly to devote your entire life to this and
1:08:52
1 hour, 8 minutes, 52 seconds
you know maybe come to the realization of how much time they're wasting or how they've alienated themselves from
1:08:59
1 hour, 8 minutes, 59 seconds
friends and family um and they're in a really unhealthy space. Like I mean when I was doing this, it was COVID, you
1:09:06
1 hour, 9 minutes, 6 seconds
know, so not everybody was out doing stuff, but yeah, like I gained so much weight doing the show. Like I And I'm finally back down
1:09:15
1 hour, 9 minutes, 15 seconds
to like I don't want to say normal weight, but um you know, I've lost almost 130 lbs since ending this
1:09:22
1 hour, 9 minutes, 22 seconds
completely, you know? So, like it's and I appreciate that, man, that you've I appreciate that you've like you say kind of I want to say making up for
1:09:30
1 hour, 9 minutes, 30 seconds
damage, but I I could tell even when you were doing the big phone home that your your heart was in the right place, you know, and I I could I had the sense that you would go to the you know, you'd find a good path and it seems like you have.
1:09:39
1 hour, 9 minutes, 39 seconds
So, congrats on that, man.
1:09:41
1 hour, 9 minutes, 41 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm thankful for everything that I experienced, you know, and I'm thankful I'm just thankful and lucky that I have such a great support
1:09:50
1 hour, 9 minutes, 50 seconds
system and a fiance. I'm getting married in October and friends and family and you know just a lot of people that I can
1:09:57
1 hour, 9 minutes, 57 seconds
fall that I've always had there to fall back on and even when I was at my craziest belief you know they would be like oh that is interesting like oh yeah
1:10:06
1 hour, 10 minutes, 6 seconds
you know and then when I told them oh my god what was going on like they're like you don't seem happy maybe you should just yeah stop doing it you know
1:10:14
1 hour, 10 minutes, 14 seconds
if UFOs aren't making your life any happier I mean why why do it right why why do it you know and and I think That's kind of my message these days.
1:10:23
1 hour, 10 minutes, 23 seconds
That's, you know, that's what I try to get out there and and get people to just think a little more critically. Um, but,
1:10:30
1 hour, 10 minutes, 30 seconds
you know, you can't you can't help them all. And that's that has been shown over and over and over and over and over again. And at to a point where I'm just
1:10:38
1 hour, 10 minutes, 38 seconds
like, I don't I like, hey, man, you know, you want to waste your life on this [ __ ] Do you want to keep digging yourself into a deeper hole
1:10:45
1 hour, 10 minutes, 45 seconds
of depression and sadness and and being used and manipulated and money stolen from and and whatever else the hell
1:10:53
1 hour, 10 minutes, 53 seconds
they're talking like? And that's the other thing about eupfology is like it's it is the
1:11:01
1 hour, 11 minutes, 1 second
dirtiest corner of the internet that I think I've experience. especially sort of when when
1:11:09
1 hour, 11 minutes, 9 seconds
like you know when I really started looking at it in a in a much different light. It's a very much a right-wing
1:11:16
1 hour, 11 minutes, 16 seconds
Nazi propaganda, racist people, homophobic people, and they don't care.
1:11:22
1 hour, 11 minutes, 22 seconds
Like they don't care if you're saying what they want to hear. You can have any opinion you want and you can say
1:11:32
1 hour, 11 minutes, 32 seconds
whatever the [ __ ] you want. And hey, if you're making my belief system feel good, I don't care if you hate gay people. I don't care if you hate black
1:11:40
1 hour, 11 minutes, 40 seconds
people. I don't care. Like, I don't I don't give a [ __ ] if you if you talk to women like they're, you know, objects and pieces of [ __ ] I don't care if you
1:11:47
1 hour, 11 minutes, 47 seconds
fat shame people. I don't I I don't care. You believe in Roswell. I believe in Roswell. Right. Right.
1:11:53
1 hour, 11 minutes, 53 seconds
You know, let's let's [clears throat] be friends. It's It's gross. It's It's icky. It's yucky. Um, and it's it's what
1:12:01
1 hour, 12 minutes, 1 second
I found is it's super, like I said, it's a narcotic. It's so addictive.
1:12:07
1 hour, 12 minutes, 7 seconds
And it's hard if you don't have the right support system and friends and family. It's hard to get out of it. It really, really is.
1:12:14
1 hour, 12 minutes, 14 seconds
So, I appreciate conversations like this. I always love having conversations. Yeah, man. Well, come back anytime.
1:12:19
1 hour, 12 minutes, 19 seconds
You're always, always welcome. So, yeah. Anytime you guys want me, I'll try and be here.
1:12:25
1 hour, 12 minutes, 25 seconds
And, uh, thanks Matt and Jeff. You guys as well. Hopefully we'll see you again next time around. All right, guys.
1:12:33
1 hour, 12 minutes, 33 seconds
Yeah, it's good to see your faces, Jeff and Matt, and meeting you for Have a good night, guys.
1:12:42
1 hour, 12 minutes, 42 seconds
Peace out.