Title: Psyched about UFOs with special guest Brent Raynes
Source video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWPjY6CDZVY
Transcript supplied by UAPRAD in Dr tim videos up to 2608.docx

1:25
1 minute, 25 seconds
All right, folks. Welcome back to Psyched About UFOs. I am your host, Dr.
1:29
1 minute, 29 seconds
Tim Bighgam. Uh if you've been here with us before, thanks a lot. If it's your first time joining us, thanks for that.
1:35
1 minute, 35 seconds
Uh tonight, we're going to have uh a guest on, a longtime friend of mine, uh Mr. Brent Reigns, who um has been a UFO
1:42
1 minute, 42 seconds
investigator for many, many years and wrote a book about John Keel. Uh got several things to uh talk with Brent about today for the first hour. Second
1:51
1 minute, 51 seconds
hour, we're going to open it up and uh do our panel discussion. So, um, yeah. Let me see if I can get Brent on here.
1:58
1 minute, 58 seconds
Get us both on the stage. There he is. Hey, Brent. How you doing, my friend?
2:05
2 minutes, 5 seconds
I'm doing all right, Tim. How about yourself?
2:07
2 minutes, 7 seconds
Doing well. Doing well. How's the weather been out there for you guys right now? You you staying uh you staying kind of cool or is it getting hot out there?
2:15
2 minutes, 15 seconds
Uh, it's going to get hot again, but right now we're having a little cool spell, which is really nice. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it uh it
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2 minutes, 22 seconds
dropped below 100 out here in Arizona and now it's it's going to get back to 110 this week. So Oh gosh.
2:29
2 minutes, 29 seconds
Back up there. Yeah. Yeah. I was just uh looking over my my notes for the for the show here and I was uh I think you uh I
2:37
2 minutes, 37 seconds
saw somewhere that you had started in with UFOs and and was it like 1969 or 1970 somewhere right around there. It's been a long time, right?
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2 minutes, 45 seconds
Yeah. Actually, I I was interested back, you know, like March 1966 with all the news in Michigan and such. We had sightings in Maine and I remember my dad
2:54
2 minutes, 54 seconds
and I kind of did some skywatch and didn't see anything. But in Bangor, there was a John King who uh claimed that he had uh seen a craft uh I think
3:03
3 minutes, 3 seconds
about 45 ft in diame with a dome and he he fired four shots and he heard at least two pings. And the Bangalore
3:11
3 minutes, 11 seconds
police said he was quite uh deemed quite sincere and disturbed by his encounter.
3:16
3 minutes, 16 seconds
Um it was so low that there was some bushes that was scratching the the lower surface of the object. He said
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3 minutes, 24 seconds
I was not planning to really get involved but I was always interested in you know outer space astronomy and all that kind of stuff at the time. And I um
3:34
3 minutes, 34 seconds
I just um I remember a friend in school said uh you know cuz I was only 14 at the time and and uh
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3 minutes, 43 seconds
he uh said let's uh start a uh a UFO club and I says no that's that's not going to be any good. You know this you know somebody will it's somebody will figure this out before then.
3:54
3 minutes, 54 seconds
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
3:58
3 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah. And I then I jumped in in January of ' 67 after reading Frank. It was flying sauces serious business, you know. And
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4 minutes, 6 seconds
yeah, yeah, there's a lot of people that I think that book brought them in the field at that time. Sure.
4:13
4 minutes, 13 seconds
But anyway, that was interesting. police officers, military people, you know, and and now we got this upsurge, you know,
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4 minutes, 22 seconds
government's releasing files and I see that uh uh can't help that. I mentioned I've seen an interview with
4:29
4 minutes, 29 seconds
Dr. Phil, Dr. Phil McGra, you know, and yeah. Yeah. We got to the White House and they wanted him to see the the late
4:36
4 minutes, 36 seconds
the latest release of files and he's now all all excited and and it made it sound like uh what we've been doing in the
4:44
4 minutes, 44 seconds
past. You know, the uh the news media would interview, you know, these country hicks who uh been drinking and all this stuff probe and I thought,
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4 minutes, 52 seconds
man, we we've done better than that, you know.
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4 minutes, 56 seconds
Yeah. I noticed he uh he he kind of immediately uh went to what did he say?
5:01
5 minutes, 1 second
Well, you've only heard from the drunks before or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now it's different. Yeah. Yeah.
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5 minutes, 7 seconds
And since we're uh I'm gonna I'm gonna add on our friend Jeff here, a UFO historian. If you don't mind, Bren, I know you said it was all right. We'd have Jeff jump on here and ask some questions as well.
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5 minutes, 17 seconds
Hey.
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5 minutes, 19 seconds
Yeah. I don't know if you guys have have met before or not, but uh No, no, I I've worked with Richard Hayen on the
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5 minutes, 27 seconds
Simon case a lot and he mentions Brett a lot. So, okay. All right.
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5 minutes, 33 seconds
We're gonna reminds me um Ren, since we since one of the things I had written down was some Keel stuff. I I mentioned this last last
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5 minutes, 40 seconds
show when uh Jeff was here, but um saw in the news recently that um the uh what they call the TNT area of uh where they
5:48
5 minutes, 48 seconds
had some of the Moth Man sighting stuff uh they're clearing that out and they're going to turn it into a data center. So Oh, really?
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5 minutes, 56 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
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5 minutes, 59 seconds
Yeah. Seems like everything is going to be a data center in the in the future.
6:03
6 minutes, 3 seconds
Yeah. But um I hadn't heard that. Wow. But how did you uh how did you what was your how did you connect with Keel? What what was
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6 minutes, 11 seconds
your I know you wrote the the Keel book which I'll I'll show a photo of here in a second but tell me about how you guys connected or
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6 minutes, 19 seconds
Okay. Well, we connected. Uh, actually I I had already been reading some of his articles u in different magazines and at
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6 minutes, 27 seconds
the time I was uh you know I was still a teenager and it was 1969 and there was a
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6 minutes, 34 seconds
magazine out of uh St. Petersburg, Florida called Saucus Scoop. Joan Whitnor was uh the editor and she was
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6 minutes, 44 seconds
also the um also co-writer of a number of articles and a couple of books with Brad Stiger who's of course a UFO legend
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6 minutes, 53 seconds
and um he at the time he was public relations director. I I uh I told him I'd represent the state of Maine which I
7:02
7 minutes, 2 seconds
was born and raised in. That's where I started. But um and anyway, Keel was writing a series of articles at the time
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7 minutes, 12 seconds
uh you know the about his research investigations into UFOs and the things he was finding and I thought it was quite interesting. It was a a full
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7 minutes, 21 seconds
spectrum of things that went beyond what Frank Edwards had presented and I thought okay um he had an he put in a a
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7 minutes, 28 seconds
mailing address so I just started writing him and then he had a newsletter called Anomaly that he was putting out at the time. Mhm.
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7 minutes, 36 seconds
And what you had to do is, you know, all you had to do is send an envelope with some postage on it. He would send you the next issue, come out non-scheduled.
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7 minutes, 44 seconds
But at the time, I had my own little little magazine I started called uh scientific sauceritis review.
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7 minutes, 53 seconds
Sauceritis was like a disease. It t on the on the end. Some people thought I I'm saying sauceritis, but actually it
8:01
8 minutes, 1 second
was sauceritis. I had I was going through microfish. I think back around 1947, there was some psychologist or somebody who took an armchair
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8 minutes, 9 seconds
perspective on the UFO thing and said, "I think these people are suffering a mental disease like I'll call it sauceritis." In fact,
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8 minutes, 17 seconds
[laughter]
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8 minutes, 18 seconds
I like that. I don't think I've heard that before. That's funny though.
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8 minutes, 21 seconds
Yeah. I I haven't seen it anywhere else, but I remember, you know, catching it on microface there. you know, friend and I
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8 minutes, 27 seconds
would go uh go to the library to uh the newspaper office in August main kinetic journal and go in the evening and uh
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8 minutes, 36 seconds
just uh use their microfish. There was nobody else using it.
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8 minutes, 40 seconds
We go back to, you know, different time periods where we knew there was activity uh like the airship wave of 1909, 1910
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8 minutes, 47 seconds
and and of course back in 1896,97 and 1947 and just uh you know collect
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8 minutes, 54 seconds
all all that information we could and of course one day there was uh one of the reporters there says uh what is it you guys are doing anyway? So I told him
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9 minutes, 3 seconds
about, you know, I was interested in UFOs and we ended up doing two uh newspaper stories on me at the time. Okay. All right.
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9 minutes, 12 seconds
So So anyway, uh I got obsessed with it pretty quick and you know, and you know, John Ke had this whole uh u you know,
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9 minutes, 21 seconds
the Moss Man and all these other weird anomalous things going on. So I I got quite interested in it and uh we had
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9 minutes, 29 seconds
some correspondence. Um I uh and and I exchanged the uh my magazine for his uh
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9 minutes, 38 seconds
newsletter. In fact, when uh when his first book, Operation Trojan Horse, came out in 1970, uh I think they couldn't
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9 minutes, 46 seconds
fit it all all the information he chapters he had. So they made it into a second book called Strange Creatures in Time and Space,
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9 minutes, 53 seconds
which came out in paperback. And uh I discovered that he knew some of the stuff out of my newsletter in his uh in his book in many cases. Yeah.
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10 minutes, 2 seconds
Right on. Didn't give me credit, but that's okay.
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10 minutes, 5 seconds
[laughter]
10:06
10 minutes, 6 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
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10 minutes, 7 seconds
Does Does your newsletter do you still have copies of that? I've never seen issues of it. I've never heard of it before. It'd be interesting to look at it again.
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10 minutes, 15 seconds
Um yeah, I've uh I've got some of it, bits and pieces and so on. Um, believe it or not, I had I had people like uh
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10 minutes, 24 seconds
Lauren Coleman was my ABSM or Barnable Snowman consultant back then. Um, and
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10 minutes, 31 seconds
uh, let's see. I got uh, different people. I tried to get John Keel to be a consultant, you know, put him on the
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10 minutes, 38 seconds
front page, but he he said no, he preferred to uh, more, you know, be on his own, not not to commit to being any
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10 minutes, 46 seconds
consultant for anybody. He was, you know, he did his own thing. Um, but anyway, yeah, I've got uh I think I
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10 minutes, 54 seconds
posted a few of the items in you on my Facebook page in the past. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
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11 minutes, 2 seconds
Yeah. If you find if you find a set, you should uh scan them and make a make the whole set available, you know. Or Absolutely.
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11 minutes, 8 seconds
Yeah. Was uh was Keel when you first contacted when you were first you know those earlier days was he um still a proponent of whether you want to call it
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11 minutes, 16 seconds
a 4D or an or an electromagnetic or paranormal theory or was he always along those kind of lines or was he initially
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11 minutes, 24 seconds
more of an extraterrestrial guy? Uh I know in the beginning of 1966 I had read where he was you know into the
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11 minutes, 31 seconds
extraterrestrial but he was uh you know he just sold a book uh a novel that had sold real well so he had some money and
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11 minutes, 40 seconds
he decided uh he was going to uh he'd always been interested in UFOs. He claimed he'd had a sighting in Egypt back in 1954
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11 minutes, 49 seconds
uh where he saw this uh dome discshaped object metallic looking hovering over a dam and and then it just took off and
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11 minutes, 57 seconds
and when he was uh when he was actually a young boy um
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12 minutes, 3 seconds
let's see it was uh when was that um it was 1937 so he would have been about 30
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years old I mean seven years old and He said that he saw a uh he and his mother and his stepfather were riding through
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somewhere in upper state New York and u they thought it was a barn on fire on this on this hilltop
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12 minutes, 27 seconds
and but instead being a barn all of a sudden it raised up in the air and it was a big round ball of light and like the event in Egypt it went up
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12 minutes, 36 seconds
so far and then took off. So he'd had two sightings and uh he wrote a lot of
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12 minutes, 42 seconds
his articles for um like you know on on his investigations like in SAGA's UFO
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12 minutes, 50 seconds
report SAGA magazine sometimes it was just in Saga itself. Yeah.
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12 minutes, 54 seconds
But u Saga magazine back in the day and fake magazine they were our sources of information. Of course now you get the
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whole worldwide web and it's you know you can just go crazy with it all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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13 minutes, 9 seconds
Yeah. At the time though, he was, you know, like I say, he was he was thinking extraterrestrial in ' 66 and then he he traveled through about 20 states. uh he
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13 minutes, 17 seconds
had a newspaper clipping services and uh then he'd go to editor's offices and make connections there and then they
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13 minutes, 24 seconds
would you know um he said a lot of editors would send him uh stories and things and cases whatever from you know
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13 minutes, 32 seconds
they had collected and so uh and he decided after a time that you know there were um some very
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13 minutes, 39 seconds
strange anomalous things uh the eupology he felt he came to feel was uh actually
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um something that uh you know if it had been a branch of parasychology it might have been better served. there was a lot of consciousness, normal consciousness
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13 minutes, 55 seconds
elements and uh um and so that that intrigued me and uh I even wrote to him
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I think in 1971 about you know if I wanted to get out in the field and look in cases myself uh best approach and he
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suggested reading uh books on you know psychology, parasychology
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um religious uh um scholarly religious type literature dealing with Yeah. Yeah.
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14 minutes, 25 seconds
different things like that. He said because the UFO contact e phenomena was like a variation of that type of stuff and I remember feeling a little
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14 minutes, 34 seconds
overwhelmed there thinking wow that's a lot of lot of ground to cover you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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14 minutes, 41 seconds
Uh I mean after six decades I mean I I've been intrigued with it, fascinated with it but I realized that uh I just
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14 minutes, 51 seconds
still scratched the surface. I mean you know not to discourage anybody but um I just try to keep an open mind about it uh
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15 minutes
objective and as discerning as I can um and uh you know it's not a not an easy pursuit.
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Uh yeah, because you can go in all kinds of different directions. Yeah. Yeah.
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Uh K was quite a quite an interesting character. Of course, Jacqu building uh even though they had their disagreements
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15 minutes, 24 seconds
as it seemed like there over time, you know, they had a lot of interest, you know, parallels of interest. Oh, yeah.
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15 minutes, 32 seconds
Absolutely.
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They were all, you know, boots on the ground and getting out there and uh trying to investigate the things firsthand.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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15 minutes, 43 seconds
And I know you you did as I think you were you mentioned you you started doing you know boots on the ground investigation yourself, right? So what
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15 minutes, 50 seconds
were what were some of over over time what were some of or or you know one an example of your favorite uh cases that you looked into over the years?
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15 minutes, 59 seconds
Well, uh, when I was in the Navy, I thought, well, that's going to curtail my my, you know, soon as I was out of high school, I
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wanted to to, uh, you know, hit the road. But, uh, I settled for two years of active duty
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aboard the the USS Paul, a B10 square escort, and went to Vietnam and and the Red Sea and different places. Wow.
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And I thought, well, that's, you know, there's two years are going to be blown.
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16 minutes, 30 seconds
But it turned out I ended up on a uh uh in Mayport, Florida, uh naval base. My ship came home ported there. And one of
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16 minutes, 38 seconds
my early correspondents who were described having a close encounter back in 1967 with a UFO and afterwards having
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16 minutes, 45 seconds
poltergeist activity and then a being appearing in the house and balls of light. Um suddenly I realized, hey, this wasn't so bad. you know, I could just
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get off my ship. Her her husband was in the Navy and I could just go over there and uh talk. And then in 73 the you
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know, the wall sightings and we got to go out investigate uh cases locally. And then um I was uh sleeping in my bunk one
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night and for some reason somebody had the speaker on the radio local radio was playing and telling about uh couple of
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men in uh Pasigula, Mississippi that saw some kind of creatures with claws. And so I got out into the phone booth and uh made a call. Of course, it wasn't long.
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It was all over the newspapers. and um Ramona Clark uh who was you know this researcher and the experiencer herself
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um there on base. She uh had a contact in New Orleans. So I flew out and uh he drove me over there to Pastor Guler and
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I met both men and visited the the site you know and um I didn't learn much more than what was already in the you know
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the uh the books and magazines and papers but he I remember Mr. Hixon gave me a uh copy of a u a newspaper article
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and that was written about it at the time and he said this is uh you know uh myself and Calvin we had an opportunity
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to uh present our own thoughts and words and exactly what happened to us and that's in this article. So I thanked him and he drew a little map where we could
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go uh you know drive down to the the little fishing pier and
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anyway um so anyway the uh yeah um and when I got out of the Navy uh active
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duty I still had reserve duty to do but I I traveled uh got my car I'd saved up some money and I traveled
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because money went further back then uh like Maine to Florida and off to Indiana and places and ultimately ended up in
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Tennessee. But uh you know um met a lot of people, researchers and experiencers
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18 minutes, 56 seconds
and uh um one more interesting to me was a you know um a gentleman that I had met
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at up in Kyoga Falls, Ohio, which is right next to Akran and Al Roush was his name. He was an older fellow and he uh
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was a contacteee and and uh it was Maline Teagle who had uh had these every just about every
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Saturday there'd be sky watches and group meetings or house meditations and everything and uh so she had told me about you know
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her [clears throat] experiences um with him how he actually produced phenomena and her presence um you know
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it would be a ball of light or one time there was Uh she observed this strange fog. She was out front of her house and suddenly these like these tentacles
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19 minutes, 47 seconds
wrapped around her and he he was over across the road in a field trying to do a meditation or something. He rushed over and said, "Ah, you saw it. You saw
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19 minutes, 55 seconds
it." She described it and says, "Oh, well, you didn't see it exactly, did you? [laughter] Your fear factor or
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whatever interfered." But uh later she saw this thing in the sky, this being.
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And she and uh I think he rushed over and realized some way communicated to him. He said that um she had seen it and she described it says, "Yep, that's it.
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That's it." Yeah. Uh exel I think was the supposed to be the name of the meeting. But uh and then she intro, you
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know, oh and there was also a Larry Moyers, a respected muon investigator in Ohio and he lived in Akran and uh he had
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20 minutes, 37 seconds
had a number of experiences and one of them was with uh with this Al Rouse.
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20 minutes, 42 seconds
They were at a he and some others were at a park up in Cleveland, Ohio. And uh it was raining and they had their
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raincoats on and uh they were walking along. There was a a
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20 minutes, 55 seconds
bush nearby that had uh three kind of ovalshaped but transparent objects just nestled within this bush.
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And he said, "I couldn't I couldn't stand it. I wanted to touch them." And he says, "I jumped into the bush." And I touched them. He said, "As soon as I
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did, they just disappeared." And um he had had another experience where uh
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somebody uh some woman had had a encounter and was supposedly having telepathic contact with these
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21 minutes, 26 seconds
intelligences. And he said that uh in the middle of the night the uh I think the husband called and said uh my wife
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wants you to come up and they want to show you something.
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21 minutes, 38 seconds
And he says, "Well, I got to go to work in the morning. Can it wait later?" He says, "No, you got to come now." So they said, "Okay." So I said, "I I got
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dressed and and uh got in the car and drove about 25 or 30 miles up in the country where they lived and uh said uh
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said she put him in the bedroom, told him to sit there and just look out the window, turned out the light and left."
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[laughter]
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Wow.
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He said, "I was thinking, what on earth am I doing here? This is ridiculous. I mean, I need to be at home sleeping for
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tomorrow. And and then he said, "All of a sudden, I saw this luminous ring type thing." And it was flying around circling this tree.
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And and then I guess I think it was she came in and excited and says, "Ah, what did you think?" You know, and he
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says, "I don't know what to think." But he said he told me I said but I he said he kind of thought of it was maybe like those
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other three lights that he saw that there was something like a holographic projection or something.
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But uh he described how um you know I think at Matteline's that they were doing Skywatch and they would
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do like automatic writing and predict that at 3:00 or something there was going to be this fireball coming in from a certain direction and he said at 3:00
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23 minutes
it would happen. you know, uh, so, um, and then there was one time that, uh, I think, you know, he used to do
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23 minutes, 8 seconds
hypnosis, and I don't know if it was him doing hypnosis, but I think it might have been someone under hypnosis said that, uh, him and a lady named Francis
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23 minutes, 17 seconds
need to go out uh, front lawn and they would put in an appearance. And he said, we went out and just over the ground
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23 minutes, 25 seconds
with two lights that come along and then went over by a tree and just blinked out, you know. So, uh, again, kind of
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23 minutes, 34 seconds
kind of a projection or something like that. Yeah. Yeah.
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23 minutes, 38 seconds
And then Meline introduced me to a a Native American medicine man over in Pennsylvania that she had seen uh um
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produce phenomena. Uh, one time he was doing a rain dance and with some kids
23:52
23 minutes, 52 seconds
and it had been uh the area had been without rain for quite a while. Now all of a sudden it started raining and she
23:59
23 minutes, 59 seconds
says she went outside and uh heard all the excitement and uh there was uh these beings in the sky. Said one was kind of
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like a half man and half eagle type figure.
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Um anyway, I started corresponding with that guy over in Pennsylvania, medicine man, um and a contactee. He claimed that
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the Udus, the beings of these traditions, um would had actually come into his home one time. They were real
24:29
24 minutes, 29 seconds
tall and they bent over in order to come inside the door and uh and they introduced themselves. And the wife drew
24:37
24 minutes, 37 seconds
me a um on an envelope what the object looked like. They called it a fire canoe. Um, but it was kind of like a a
24:45
24 minutes, 45 seconds
spaceship type thing with flames coming off the sides and um, but you know, he u So anyway,
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24 minutes, 55 seconds
uh, my wife is Native American Cherokee and I I uh I was taking her up to see my parents up in Maine before we got
25:03
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married. And uh, I had already been at his house once before, but we we got there with him. We had lunch with him
25:11
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and then he he he said uh and he was an older fellow uh said, "Were you going to
25:17
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uh went into the living room says now we have a pow-wow?" I just kind of smirked at that. I thought, "Oh, okay. Sure."
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And so we sat in a Joel and I sat in a dive van and he was in a an armchair across from us and lit up a pipe with
25:34
25 minutes, 34 seconds
his tobacco and um I was uh feeling very relaxed and I closed my eyes thinking maybe I'll
25:43
25 minutes, 43 seconds
have a vision or something. You know Joan meanwhile didn't close her eyes.
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I wish I hadn't. But [clears throat] she said that when his smoke in his pipe that the smoke
25:56
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suddenly went out like horizontally on both directions and then came back together and then it did it vertically up and down and then came back together.
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26 minutes, 8 seconds
Then it did horizontal again. She doesn't know how many times but several times. [snorts] And then it was like there was a circle of smoke, a tunnel of
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smoke between her and and uh Chief Lightwood. And uh she said that, you know, that just kind of broke the spell.
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26 minutes, 25 seconds
And unbelievably unbelievably uh we went up to Maine. It was about two or three days before I said something to her. I
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think about, you know, that was kind of unusual at, you know, when we when we were doing that pow-wow and then she told me her experience and
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26 minutes, 42 seconds
I thought, well, it was more unusual than I thought. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
26:48
26 minutes, 48 seconds
Yeah. You know, interesting you you mentioned that. That's kind of a common thing you sometimes hear in in UFO cases of of people not immediately mentioning
26:56
26 minutes, 56 seconds
or talking about the uh the uh the unusual aspects of what were was going on. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just seemed kind of
27:04
27 minutes, 4 seconds
strange and and uh in fact at one point uh she was talking about this recently that on the way up to Maine we stopped
27:11
27 minutes, 11 seconds
and there was a wind blowing through the the trees and she commented uh that uh
27:19
27 minutes, 19 seconds
still feel his presence but even at that didn't mention about you know the the strange thing with the smoke. But uh
27:27
27 minutes, 27 seconds
anyway um and he had some really fascinating stories. Uh I told when he was a boy, his uncle Tall Willow and him
27:36
27 minutes, 36 seconds
were out walking and they were going up this mountain and there was like u a giant rattlesnake and Chris rattlesnake is part of his totem and he said it was 150 ft long.
27:49
27 minutes, 49 seconds
Okay. And it started going up this mountain and then just sort of disappeared. And uh so his uncle Tallw
27:57
27 minutes, 57 seconds
will told him to he was just a young boy to just uh sit and meditate for about an hour and see what comes to you. And he
28:06
28 minutes, 6 seconds
said that at age four they began to teach him how to build uh kind of little prayer mounds on the ground and uh he
28:14
28 minutes, 14 seconds
would sit on them and and meditate there and said sometimes there would be a voice that would speak to him and sometimes a beam would appear you know
28:22
28 minutes, 22 seconds
so it was quite quite interesting. Um but uh you know it's there's a lot of
28:31
28 minutes, 31 seconds
you know I thought well this is what Ke told me to be aware of you know uh this this paranormal the spiritual elements
28:38
28 minutes, 38 seconds
and so on. Um and of course this synchronicity I mean I I came back from the I spent just about the whole time on the road in 75.
28:49
28 minutes, 49 seconds
when I came back in September, it wasn't long before uh you know I I had before actually venturing out and back in May
28:56
28 minutes, 56 seconds
of that year before I left um I was part of a youth group and I you know accepted
29:03
29 minutes, 3 seconds
Christ and I felt fine about that and some people didn't think well now you don't need to go looking at UFOs you know you know what they may be okay
29:12
29 minutes, 12 seconds
but I did anyway I said well they were really nice people very interesting you know and I know a cousin of mine she kind of thought
29:19
29 minutes, 19 seconds
I don't know. But uh yeah, people started saying uh you know, like uh uh you're
29:28
29 minutes, 28 seconds
um will you are you sure you're saved, Brett? You know, right?
29:33
29 minutes, 33 seconds
Have you have you been baptized in water? They said, "Well, I didn't feel like I needed to." Uh one guy came and said, "Uh Brent, have you uh um have you
29:43
29 minutes, 43 seconds
spoken in tongues? Have you been baptized by the spirit?" I said, "Ah, wait a minute." So I I decided, well,
29:51
29 minutes, 51 seconds
I'm just going to have to talk to the creator, you know. Yeah.
29:54
29 minutes, 54 seconds
And uh and then this So I hadn't even been thinking about it. It was about two nights later and it was a little after u
30:03
30 minutes, 3 seconds
11:00 and you know, I turn off the light in my bedroom. I go to jump into bed. Um my
30:10
30 minutes, 10 seconds
father is still in the bathroom. He's making his last little pit stop and the hall light is on but my door is open and
30:18
30 minutes, 18 seconds
all of a sudden I find myself I think walking toward the door and I'm about
30:25
30 minutes, 25 seconds
halfway across the floor and uh suddenly um something stops me from behind. I don't
30:32
30 minutes, 32 seconds
feel anything, but I know something stopped me from behind.
30:36
30 minutes, 36 seconds
And and I just keep looking straight at the door, the open door. And all of a sudden, there's always little tiny pulsating balls of white translucent
30:45
30 minutes, 45 seconds
light. And uh they're very small, like marble size. It looks like there's hundreds of them. And they get down near
30:52
30 minutes, 52 seconds
the down near the bottom of the the the floor there. It looks like it's forming into like a four-legged animal composed of pure light.
31:03
31 minutes, 3 seconds
And then I'm back into bed staring up at the ceiling and uh you know and what was
31:09
31 minutes, 9 seconds
interesting is that uh I didn't have any emotion at all and I had asked when I asked two days before that I have a
31:18
31 minutes, 18 seconds
vision that might reveal something to me that I could uh you know not be afraid.
31:24
31 minutes, 24 seconds
I mean, I I hear people having some pretty pretty scary experiences. So, if they show them something uh that might
31:31
31 minutes, 31 seconds
be, you know, a lesson or whatever, and I wasn't really sure. I'm not even sure what the exact date was. Uh but I
31:39
31 minutes, 39 seconds
remember writing on the calendar, but I never pursued it any further. Um but uh there were
31:47
31 minutes, 47 seconds
you know it was soon after that that I was investigating some activity in Maine and there were certain things that happened you begin to notice like
31:54
31 minutes, 54 seconds
synchronicities you know and uh and uh I had a bunch of them back around
32:01
32 minutes, 1 second
2018 19 and it and it really began um oh this is um it really kind of
32:10
32 minutes, 10 seconds
brought the experience in Maine back back to my mind. Um, what what happened was is there was a woman in in Nashville
32:19
32 minutes, 19 seconds
uh who uh whose mother was an experiencer back in I think 1957. She'd never thought about UFOs or anything.
32:27
32 minutes, 27 seconds
She would just uh but her husband is at work this night and so she uh I think she'd read a novel or something laying
32:33
32 minutes, 33 seconds
in bed and uh suddenly this small little crap comes lands outside and there's an
32:41
32 minutes, 41 seconds
alien being small and uh they communicate and she's like uh she
32:49
32 minutes, 49 seconds
tries to tell people about it and goes to the church where she would always attended and uh the preacher I think
32:57
32 minutes, 57 seconds
recommended you know you sure you weren't having a hallucination or something u she thought maybe he had have some spiritual guidance for her but
33:06
33 minutes, 6 seconds
she noticed that she developed a lot of uh kind of psychic abilities after that experience and she had two young daughters and one of them was I was
33:14
33 minutes, 14 seconds
communicating with in in Nashville because she contacted me because she had this interest in UFOs and uh was looking
33:22
33 minutes, 22 seconds
into it herself and she had a sister who's there too and so they both she had experiences and then that they had had
33:30
33 minutes, 30 seconds
and uh psychic and even UFO although this particular woman that I was in touch with most she didn't really have
33:38
33 minutes, 38 seconds
that much UFO experience mostly psychic but um
33:44
33 minutes, 44 seconds
one day and I um let's see it was late in 2018
33:53
33 minutes, 53 seconds
I was uh thought I would get back to like type like a meditation. I thought maybe Carl Young's active imagination
34:01
34 minutes, 1 second
exercise would be good. So, I kind of read up on that and I tried it out and uh I fell asleep while I was doing it.
34:13
34 minutes, 13 seconds
But I uh I suddenly I had this dream and so I woke up early, you know, early. It
34:22
34 minutes, 22 seconds
was still dark in the morning and uh the dream was about uh being up in that bedroom in Maine again
34:30
34 minutes, 30 seconds
and uh there are these people. I called them inspectors and I didn't know who they were. They made me kind of nervous.
34:38
34 minutes, 38 seconds
And then my mother, who's passed on, as did my father at that point, uh is standing in the middle of the room and I
34:45
34 minutes, 45 seconds
go up and we hug. And uh and then about two days later, this lady
34:52
34 minutes, 52 seconds
in Nashville writes to me and says, "Uh, Brent, I just had a very strange dream.
34:59
34 minutes, 59 seconds
I don't know what to make of it. U but you were in it. Uh we, you know, can we talk?" And I said, "Sure." So without
35:07
35 minutes, 7 seconds
telling her, she has a dream that I came to her house and her mother who was also
35:14
35 minutes, 14 seconds
passed away was there and was telling me things although we've never met, you know, I mean she was passed on the time I
35:21
35 minutes, 21 seconds
I uh had any connection with with her daughter. So anyway, she uh
35:30
35 minutes, 30 seconds
was giving me some advice uh about not to worry, things were going to be all right. Related to my wife, who I had been kind of concerned at time because she has COPD.
35:40
35 minutes, 40 seconds
Um and uh and I thought just how unusual, you know. And then about a month later,
35:47
35 minutes, 47 seconds
another PE person I had uh interviewed in the past who who had moved up to Missouri who had UFO and ghost type
35:55
35 minutes, 55 seconds
experiences um contacted me said, "I got sunburns. Um I was dreaming and I had a sunburn.
36:02
36 minutes, 2 seconds
Um can we talk?" I said, "Sure thing." So I called her up that night and uh she said
36:10
36 minutes, 10 seconds
that uh she had this dream. She was in this room. There were always these glass windows around. There were people there but they were they were down close to
36:18
36 minutes, 18 seconds
the ground. It was four and she was the only one standing and there was a bright light outside and suddenly her mother
36:26
36 minutes, 26 seconds
who had been died years before came running up to her and hugged her and says you don't need to be alone at this
36:33
36 minutes, 33 seconds
time. And then there was a bright flash of light. She said that she woke up uh with sunburn on her body.
36:40
36 minutes, 40 seconds
Wow. Did you were you able to see the sunburn at all or did you get to Well, no. Uh she was, you know, up in Missouri.
36:47
36 minutes, 47 seconds
Okay.
36:48
36 minutes, 48 seconds
But I I just So all I had was really the uh the story she had told. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought that was pretty unusual.
36:56
36 minutes, 56 seconds
It was again the the mother aspect. Yeah.
37:00
37 minutes
Yeah. And uh and then after that uh again the woman who initially contacted me with the the dream of her mother and
37:09
37 minutes, 9 seconds
my interaction with her in the um oh and then and also I was with a group of other men came house I was one of these
37:17
37 minutes, 17 seconds
TV repair men whatever that has to do with anything. [clears throat] Um but afterwards there was a number of
37:23
37 minutes, 23 seconds
other synchronicities. Uh she uh I was reading about cases involving
37:30
37 minutes, 30 seconds
small objects floating in people's homes and suddenly she contacts me and says I just had an experience I've never had
37:37
37 minutes, 37 seconds
before. A small kind I think it was football-shaped object or a football-sized object uh
37:45
37 minutes, 45 seconds
floating around in my bedroom and then just disappeared.
37:48
37 minutes, 48 seconds
Wow. And uh and then I was thinking of these uh kind of I guess it was kind of triangle type craft and then she wrote
37:56
37 minutes, 56 seconds
about seeing one on the way to work. He said no one else seemed to notice it and I thought okay and then um you know of
38:06
38 minutes, 6 seconds
course Rosemary and Gali well-known researcher contributed articles for fake magazine and such for years and knew
38:12
38 minutes, 12 seconds
John Ke and uh helped me with you know um editing of my my ke book and uh wrote
38:20
38 minutes, 20 seconds
the forward and I interviewed her also and she uh
38:28
38 minutes, 28 seconds
Um, well, she had cancer. She wasn't letting
38:36
38 minutes, 36 seconds
it be known to a whole lot of people. I was told on the side at first uh but she was uh she didn't really have time to,
38:44
38 minutes, 44 seconds
you know, she was a publisher. She published I think about 50 books over the years and she wasn't able to really
38:50
38 minutes, 50 seconds
uh finish mine. So, I had to go go, you know, self-publish it myself. Yeah.
38:56
38 minutes, 56 seconds
But um um there was one day that uh uh this this woman in Nashville told me,
39:05
39 minutes, 5 seconds
"Brent, I have a uh a mirror that I use to sometimes see and contact spirits and your friend Rosemary appeared in it recently.
39:16
39 minutes, 16 seconds
I think she's trying to reach you." So I knew some friends of of uh Rosemary's who lived up in Ohio who uh who had get
39:25
39 minutes, 25 seconds
with her and did investigations with her and had known her for about nine years and the wife was kind of like a psychic
39:32
39 minutes, 32 seconds
medium and uh so I asked him has anything been going on you know since Rosemary passed away anything paranormal
39:41
39 minutes, 41 seconds
whatever he uh he and his wife said yeah uh they've been having experiences they explained that she had appeared to him
39:50
39 minutes, 50 seconds
in his office and uh you know I told him what what had happened and uh what this
39:57
39 minutes, 57 seconds
woman had reported and he said you know she used to sell these crying mirrors you know for contacting spirits and he said you know I just realized you didn't
40:05
40 minutes, 5 seconds
tell us right off he said you know I realized tell you where where she was standing I was between this and that but you know there was actually a scry in
40:12
40 minutes, 12 seconds
here on the on the the shelf behind her And uh you said your your friend saw her
40:19
40 minutes, 19 seconds
in this mirror that she uses, you know, like a psychoanium uh community of spirits. And uh then one
40:27
40 minutes, 27 seconds
day uh my wife and I were on our way to uh uh Lawrenburg. It's about 30 miles
40:35
40 minutes, 35 seconds
away to the east of us. And uh uh on the way, we had not seen an eagle for a long time, but there was an eagle
40:43
40 minutes, 43 seconds
on the side of the road. And I get home and then uh you know this uh this lady in Nashville
40:51
40 minutes, 51 seconds
posted that she had just seen uh four eagles uh just doing a circle tightnit circle
40:58
40 minutes, 58 seconds
over her house uh which she'd never ever really seen before and she lived there like over 10 years. Yeah.
41:06
41 minutes, 6 seconds
And immediately I realized uh oh um I had had a friend who was a Native American out in California. I
41:14
41 minutes, 14 seconds
interviewed him about a year before and he had sent me a book about uh animal signs and such and u synchronicities and so on and and
41:23
41 minutes, 23 seconds
you know Native American ways and he'd had a uh a UFO experience where they were like four eagles you know close
41:32
41 minutes, 32 seconds
together circling around making and it was a humming sound and then they'd become UFOs and this went on for a while
41:40
41 minutes, 40 seconds
and he consulted medicine man who told him that the space people were going to contact you and he was like no don't tell me that garbage you know I'm I'm a
41:49
41 minutes, 49 seconds
college educated Indian and I'm not going to go for this right yeah and then he said around his birthday in March uh he said that there was a he had
41:58
41 minutes, 58 seconds
the dream again and then it ended but the humming sound was still there and he got out of bed and he went into the living room and outside the picture
42:06
42 minutes, 6 seconds
window was a flying saucer just you know a classic flying saucer hovering there and he's standing there looking at And
42:13
42 minutes, 13 seconds
then pow. Uh there's a bright flashlight and he finds himself aboard a a UFO
42:20
42 minutes, 20 seconds
and and I thought, okay. Uh I had kind of dragged my feet about getting back with him doing another
42:28
42 minutes, 28 seconds
interview about, you know, he had sent me this book about, you know, spirit animals and signs and such. I thought this happened by coincidence. She hadn't
42:36
42 minutes, 36 seconds
seen anything like this before. I hadn't. So I got online and found out he passed away. So, you know, so then,
42:43
42 minutes, 43 seconds
so then I went back and I been reading bits and parts of the book ever since to see what I missed, you know, just involved in other areas.
42:52
42 minutes, 52 seconds
And you mentioned uh Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Oh, no. You go ahead.
42:57
42 minutes, 57 seconds
I was just going to You mentioned the word psychoantium and Greg Little had had suggested I ask you about you had done some stuff with he said within
43:04
43 minutes, 4 seconds
within a psychoantium and uh I should ask you about it. Yeah. Oh yeah, he had uh well he had an
43:13
43 minutes, 13 seconds
arrangement there at his his home over in Memphis uh years ago, a psycho mansion he had constructed. Um, and uh
43:21
43 minutes, 21 seconds
he would uh he would see like I think like a cave area with like you could hear like I think dropping of water like on the floor of the cave or whatever.
43:31
43 minutes, 31 seconds
And as I remember and he said that uh he said I wished I had thought to have tried to tape record it or videotape it,
43:39
43 minutes, 39 seconds
you know, to make sure you know uh that this was objective or not.
43:44
43 minutes, 44 seconds
But, uh, yeah, I brought a Native American friend over and she claimed that she had seen a a person in in the
43:52
43 minutes, 52 seconds
in the mirror, you know, as far as the psycho mania he'd gotten was Raymond Moody, who wrote a book on, you know, not just near-death
44:00
44 minutes
experiences, but the psychic man the psychommancium, however you pronounce it, that uh he had built and shared with people, you know.
44:10
44 minutes, 10 seconds
Uh, yeah.
44:10
44 minutes, 10 seconds
And some people had pretty profound experiences. I I know somebody wrote Greg about uh seeing kind of like alien
44:18
44 minutes, 18 seconds
figures uh in his uh psycho mansion or mirror or something like that.
44:24
44 minutes, 24 seconds
Uh so anyway, another rabbit hole to dive into, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
44:31
44 minutes, 31 seconds
But uh Jeff, I don't want to leave you out. You got any questions while I'm looking over my notes here?
44:38
44 minutes, 38 seconds
Um, no. I was just, maybe you guys can help me out because I'm drawing a blank here.
44:44
44 minutes, 44 seconds
Uh, when he was telling this story of uh some of these telepathic communications people were getting, it it reminded me of a case of an abductee, I believe,
44:53
44 minutes, 53 seconds
where they were told a like a friend or a relative of theirs had just died. Like they got that message and then it came to turn out that somebody had just died.
45:03
45 minutes, 3 seconds
Like a friend or relative did just die.
45:05
45 minutes, 5 seconds
They found out like the next day. Does anybody remember what case that was?
45:09
45 minutes, 9 seconds
I think it I think it might have been Rita Mali uh a woman up in Ithaca, New York back in December 67.
45:16
45 minutes, 16 seconds
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing knowledge.
45:22
45 minutes, 22 seconds
Yeah. Uh yeah, there was a Yeah. I think it was a two-part article that a Lloyd Min wrote for science and mechanics
45:30
45 minutes, 30 seconds
uh years ago. And uh I have a case where a woman wrote to me from Kentucky. Um and you know she wrote quite a number of
45:39
45 minutes, 39 seconds
times and described about an experience she had when she was about 5 years old.
45:44
45 minutes, 44 seconds
She was out behind her house in the field playing and this guy in a silver suit walked up to her and he had a little box and he he wanted her to hold
45:52
45 minutes, 52 seconds
this thing like an ink pen and he was checking his box. She had been ill just before that. He wanted to make sure he said that she was all right. looked at
45:59
45 minutes, 59 seconds
the box, had some kind of electronic thing and said, "Okay, you're okay." Took back the little pin shape thing and
46:07
46 minutes, 7 seconds
then walked away. And she said, "Then years later, uh she's an adult. She's married, got kids, she's living on a
46:15
46 minutes, 15 seconds
farm in Kentucky, and uh this craft comes down as a being inside a window there. It's saucer shaped. It's got
46:23
46 minutes, 23 seconds
lights on it and uh shines a a search light down the ground and uh then it goes away. And then sometime later, not
46:32
46 minutes, 32 seconds
too long later, um her father had been in the hospital ill and she would go um you know periodically about two or three
46:41
46 minutes, 41 seconds
times a week just to check on him. And uh then one night this guy comes in to
46:48
46 minutes, 48 seconds
her room and uh there's a light on both sides of the you know she's in the
46:55
46 minutes, 55 seconds
corner of the house and on both sides of the the room with windows with this lights outside and she can see it's the
47:01
47 minutes, 1 second
same man she saw when she was five. And what I found interesting is he said, you know, he hadn't changed at all since I
47:09
47 minutes, 9 seconds
was a little girl. And uh said that u he told me that everything was going to be all right. You know, that my father had
47:17
47 minutes, 17 seconds
passed away and he just wanted, you know, and then about few minutes later, the phone rang and she was, you know,
47:24
47 minutes, 24 seconds
notified that that fact was true, you know.
47:28
47 minutes, 28 seconds
Wow. And uh so that was you know and I I remember telling Greg at the time and uh we talked about maybe going
47:36
47 minutes, 36 seconds
out to interview her which we never never did do but I I did correspond with her quite a bit and uh you know it was
47:45
47 minutes, 45 seconds
intriguing. I kind of thought about you know read them case of the moment on New York 67 and some of the other stories that people uh you know describe.
47:56
47 minutes, 56 seconds
So yeah.
47:59
47 minutes, 59 seconds
Were you ever um more of a into the the nuts and bolts kind of scene or were you always more into kind of the Yeah, after reading uh Frank Edwards
48:07
48 minutes, 7 seconds
Flying Sauce A Serious Business, that was my my thing at the time.
48:10
48 minutes, 10 seconds
Yeah. Um but you know as I got more into it and uh uh you know and and I
48:20
48 minutes, 20 seconds
reading John Ke uh that kind of shifted some things and was one of my friends at the time uh
48:28
48 minutes, 28 seconds
uh was you know he was an older guy named Jim Carrey and he uh I would get on the phone with him. would have conversations about it and meet him
48:36
48 minutes, 36 seconds
sometimes and and uh he got to where he would uh talk about going to the spiritualist church and having experiences with mediums and stuff and
48:44
48 minutes, 44 seconds
he had an out of the body experience and he went to this city located out what it was a swamp area behind his home but in
48:51
48 minutes, 51 seconds
this other realm that was a a big city with domes different you know advanced
48:57
48 minutes, 57 seconds
architecture and he sat on some uh some bench with some old wise man who was,
49:04
49 minutes, 4 seconds
you know, telling him uh everything was cool, I guess. Yeah. Yeah.
49:10
49 minutes, 10 seconds
But anyway, um yeah, and and you know, I I have had u
49:19
49 minutes, 19 seconds
cases where, you know, I I knew that uh things were not really I mean, you have
49:27
49 minutes, 27 seconds
to keep an open mind. you know, not all cases are going to be really positive and and uh um I've had instances where,
49:36
49 minutes, 36 seconds
you know, like uh someone says, "Oh, that tap on the window, that's that's those beams coming in
49:44
49 minutes, 44 seconds
Massachusetts." And I pull the curtain back and there's a bug there, you know.
49:48
49 minutes, 48 seconds
[laughter]
49:48
49 minutes, 48 seconds
All right. Yeah. Yeah.
49:50
49 minutes, 50 seconds
And [clears throat] okay, but you know, then there's some cases that uh I even visited u Francis
49:58
49 minutes, 58 seconds
and Guy Swan down in Elliot, Maine. You know, that was a big case. Um because, you know, she was communicating with APA
50:06
50 minutes, 6 seconds
through automatic writing and she described a number of experiences seeing UFO and and uh craft and then it just disappeared. She
50:15
50 minutes, 15 seconds
described her and her friend, I think maybe there was two friends that were riding somewhere and u this bell-shaped
50:22
50 minutes, 22 seconds
object came down to her car and they were all bracing for impact and then it was just gone. And she was the one that
50:29
50 minutes, 29 seconds
um you know met uh uh this uh former Navy Admiral uh uh what was his name?
50:40
50 minutes, 40 seconds
Yes, Herbert Williams and his wife. Yeah.
50:43
50 minutes, 43 seconds
um because he was the one who started contacting people about her, you know, about Francis Swan and uh her
50:50
50 minutes, 50 seconds
communications with AFA and some other being and uh she did an automatic writing for me at the time while I was there, but I um nothing happened there.
51:02
51 minutes, 2 seconds
So, you know, but I I I still have the paper papers where she was writing. Uh but there was a a military man of course
51:10
51 minutes, 10 seconds
as you know that came came up and he tried it and he got obsessed with it and uh went back to Washington DC and they
51:19
51 minutes, 19 seconds
um the story goes um that uh this guy in
51:26
51 minutes, 26 seconds
his automatic writing state uh claimed that a UFO was going to be there outside the window and you know
51:33
51 minutes, 33 seconds
supposedly they saw it. Um so it was a you know an intriguing story. Anyway um yeah had a lot of strange psychic elements.
51:44
51 minutes, 44 seconds
She also read a lot of mystical literature and she was telling me about um a uh having a she was putting the
51:54
51 minutes, 54 seconds
book up I think and she had this uh feeling of a pull in her solar plexus when she went over to put the book up on
52:01
52 minutes, 1 second
the desk. And uh and this is there was I think a flashlight and a wise man from
52:08
52 minutes, 8 seconds
the east appeared along with his donkey in her home. And another time she saw little fairies outside the window
52:16
52 minutes, 16 seconds
um while one of her grandchildren was was sleeping. And so I mean she was full of um you know unusual stories. uh her
52:26
52 minutes, 26 seconds
husband was supposed to have uh been when he was going to work uh some sort of little miniature UFO was following
52:33
52 minutes, 33 seconds
him as he left the driveway. Um so she was some someone who was subject
52:39
52 minutes, 39 seconds
to visions and uh uh uh what we call high strange experiences for sure.
52:49
52 minutes, 49 seconds
Yes. Yeah. And it was u but I I haven't and I know that that um you know Mr.
52:56
52 minutes, 56 seconds
Nolles was and his wife uh they they claimed their house was haunted. Um and uh he would uh I I'm trying to find the
53:05
53 minutes, 5 seconds
tape. He I recorded this recording he made. He picked up a guy he would pick up hitchhikers and ask him about UFOs whenever he had
53:14
53 minutes, 14 seconds
an opportunity be out somewhere. Ask somebody, "Have you ever seen a UFO?" And this young man told him about Yeah.
53:20
53 minutes, 20 seconds
He was taken aboard a UFO and they shrunk his car down to the size of a toy.
53:25
53 minutes, 25 seconds
And so a friend of mine up in Maine said, "I saw you wrote that. Can you get the uh can you can you find that tape?"
53:33
53 minutes, 33 seconds
So I've been looking for it. Uh I've got a lot of old cassette tapes and I don't know how good shape they're in now, some of them, but uh I told him if I find it,
53:42
53 minutes, 42 seconds
I'll let you know. and I see he's writing an article and on Francis Swan case for Fate magazine and uh and he let
53:51
53 minutes, 51 seconds
me review it and uh I said, "Oh, looks good." Uh and he he mentioned about my conversations with him and things and
53:58
53 minutes, 58 seconds
and uh so I thought you were going to I thought you were going to ask if he kept the if he still had the car that was shrunk down, you know, like a like a little
54:06
54 minutes, 6 seconds
micro car. He still kept the kept the Matchbox car or something. I I assume that, you know, when he left the craft, they put it back to the right side.
54:15
54 minutes, 15 seconds
Regular side. Yeah. Yeah.
54:17
54 minutes, 17 seconds
You know, that's kind of like the uh the things that other people have described uh u like Betty and Lucer, you know, where they shrunk crap down and such.
54:29
54 minutes, 29 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, it's it's it's intriguing.
54:32
54 minutes, 32 seconds
Uh I mean as um I as I was traveling around in the 70s I
54:40
54 minutes, 40 seconds
I I engaged in correspondence with uh Dr. Bertho Schwarz who who was really brought is a psychiatrist who was brought into the UFO field by John Keel.
54:50
54 minutes, 50 seconds
Uh you know uh Ke had found where Dr. Schwartz had, you know, usually he was parasychology.
54:59
54 minutes, 59 seconds
That was his thing.
55:00
55 minutes
But he had written a thing for a New Jersey medical journal uh on four people that he had interviewed about their very
55:08
55 minutes, 8 seconds
interesting UFO experiences. And uh he found that they had didn't seem to suffer any form of
55:16
55 minutes, 16 seconds
overt psychopathological, you know, problems.
55:20
55 minutes, 20 seconds
Yeah. And uh so uh you know but that was going to be his swan song to all of
55:26
55 minutes, 26 seconds
this. And um well anyway as it turned out uh Kio contact him. They got
55:33
55 minutes, 33 seconds
together and uh Ke introduced him to Charles Bowen of uh Flying Saucer Review in London, England. Um which was quite a
55:41
55 minutes, 41 seconds
quite a popular magazine back at the time. People were contributing all kinds of uh cases they were working on all over the world. And um and then you know
55:50
55 minutes, 50 seconds
eventually he started going around interviewing people, investigating and uh and uh I was introduced to him. So uh
55:59
55 minutes, 59 seconds
I corresponded with him from 73 years old. He passed away in 2010 and uh he would
56:06
56 minutes, 6 seconds
I've got his uh his is it psychonamic UFO book? I think it I've got that. That's a great book. Yeah.
56:12
56 minutes, 12 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Two volume over 500 pages. And um yeah, I you know I was
56:19
56 minutes, 19 seconds
following his guidance sometimes like when I was traveling he uh recommend I go and interview um um
56:28
56 minutes, 28 seconds
Jackie Booth up in Avon Lake, Ohio who had the you know alien type UFO type experiences, psychic. Um and then there
56:36
56 minutes, 36 seconds
was uh Earl Nef who had founded the Cleveland Euphology project back I think 1958.
56:44
56 minutes, 44 seconds
And uh when I contacted him four years earlier, um you know, he told me the only ones he believed who had had a UFO experience
56:52
56 minutes, 52 seconds
with aliens was Betty Barney Hill, who he uh did a a show with them with them on radio. And said, "Everyone else, if I
57:00
57 minutes
give them enough rope, they'll hang themselves." And uh and then I was surprised, you know, Dr. Schwez said, "You need to uh
57:07
57 minutes, 7 seconds
get with uh get with, you know, Earl Earl Nef. uh he's having some experiences. I said, "Really?" Okay. So,
57:16
57 minutes, 16 seconds
I did I I met him at a uh one of the cup meetings in Akran at the home of uh Lee um
57:24
57 minutes, 24 seconds
Richard Lee, Richard Lee. And uh I told him Dr. Schwarz encouraged me to talk with him and he was like in the middle of a meeting and he says, "Okay." Okay.
57:34
57 minutes, 34 seconds
So, I went up went upstairs to a library and I set up my tape recorder and I recorded uh you know the experiences he'd been having. He said he'd been
57:42
57 minutes, 42 seconds
doing talks. He'd been doing talks for years, public lectures, but all of a sudden there were people coming forward saying while you were talking uh I I
57:50
57 minutes, 50 seconds
would see like a being standing by your ball of lights, you know, all these stories. had a some psychic woman in the audience and
57:58
57 minutes, 58 seconds
she would uh a photographer and she would uh tap the photographer on the shoulder whenever you know saw anything
58:04
58 minutes, 4 seconds
and he said uh he was uh talking to Catholic school one time and uh
58:11
58 minutes, 11 seconds
this woman come up to him and says uh Mr. F, how come you can talk so freely about these things and no one has
58:20
58 minutes, 20 seconds
ever um, you know, you've never been silenced or whatever?
58:26
58 minutes, 26 seconds
He said that a voice behind behind him where there was just a big blank wall said, "Maybe we like what
58:35
58 minutes, 35 seconds
he's saying, you know." And he says, "Larry, Larry, Larry, Larry Moyes." He said, "Come over here. I need you to
58:43
58 minutes, 43 seconds
interview this lady and take her testimony.
58:46
58 minutes, 46 seconds
Um he claimed that there was objects would appear disappear from his in his house and reappear in the room. And uh
58:55
58 minutes, 55 seconds
uh he said that uh one time he was just walking down the sidewalk and there was someone running up the sidewalk and wondered what was that all about? And as
59:04
59 minutes, 4 seconds
soon as they went by him, he turned around and they were gone. Well, he he had a uh premonition of someone uh a
59:13
59 minutes, 13 seconds
celebrity uh from movies who had passed away that he had met one time and uh he always thought a lot of her and he had
59:22
59 minutes, 22 seconds
this dream saying that you know she had passed away and next day she had you know. Wow.
59:30
59 minutes, 30 seconds
Yeah. So he he was starting to really and he met Yuri Geller and uh he told me about uh well he said that Erie Geller
59:39
59 minutes, 39 seconds
had uh he'd watched him actually he said Earl Map said he could he knew some about magic tricks and stuff and so he watched
59:48
59 minutes, 48 seconds
him do things that he knew was real. Um, and he said there was a radio personality there in Ohio who uh said
59:57
59 minutes, 57 seconds
that Eric Geller had been to their station and uh did a talk and they said
1:00:03
1 hour, 3 seconds
afterwards myself and two other people were in the break room having a sandwich or whatever and all of a sudden we
1:00:11
1 hour, 11 seconds
looked outside and there was a a large one of their antennas was buckling up
1:00:18
1 hour, 18 seconds
and just kind of melting. or whatever bending. It was kind of, you know, just bending down and collapsing outside.
1:00:27
1 hour, 27 seconds
When they went outside investigate, everything was normal, but that's what they saw.
1:00:32
1 hour, 32 seconds
And so I did call Erie Geller up in England at the time and asked him about it. He says, "Well, that's a major
1:00:39
1 hour, 39 seconds
event. No one ever told me about that." And we got talking about, you know, the Stanford research studies that have been
1:00:46
1 hour, 46 seconds
done and about this other laboratory where they were studying him and uh some of some of the scientists had all these really weird experiences, you know. Mhm.
1:00:58
1 hour, 58 seconds
Um there was uh you know they would come in and of course security always said you know they were always concerned about foreign agents bothering him said
1:01:06
1 hour, 1 minute, 6 seconds
have you had any unusual experiences and there would be things like uh yeah um there was like this strange tall bird
1:01:15
1 hour, 1 minute, 15 seconds
uh you know [clears throat] came into the bedroom was walking down the sidewalk or something and uh one time there was like a an arm with a hook on
1:01:23
1 hour, 1 minute, 23 seconds
it hovering over the bed. Um, and they were so, uh, the guy that was supposed to be monitoring it for the
1:01:31
1 hour, 1 minute, 31 seconds
CIA, uh, uh, Kit Green, he, you know, flew over and, uh, two of the scientists
1:01:39
1 hour, 1 minute, 39 seconds
were planning to quit. They were so disturbed.
1:01:43
1 hour, 1 minute, 43 seconds
And uh and then one day Hal put off and he explained this to me in a letter uh because I had already described in my
1:01:50
1 hour, 1 minute, 50 seconds
newsletter and he said you didn't get that quite right so let me give you the right version. So the next issue I I used his corrected version. Um but
1:01:59
1 hour, 1 minute, 59 seconds
uh it had been uh um one day they're on the phone and
1:02:07
1 hour, 2 minutes, 7 seconds
uh Andrea Hal Puto off says to uh Kit Green, you know, um
1:02:14
1 hour, 2 minutes, 14 seconds
uh Eric Geller says he can see things from a distance.
1:02:19
1 hour, 2 minutes, 19 seconds
And uh Kit Green supposedly said, "No, he can't. No, no, I don't believe it." And so he [snorts] says, "Well, uh, you know, uh, let's let's do an experiment.
1:02:30
1 hour, 2 minutes, 30 seconds
Uh, he's game." Okay. So, he's going to describe what's in your room where you are right now. And, uh, so
1:02:40
1 hour, 2 minutes, 40 seconds
in the version that I read in the book, um, Eric Gellig get on the phone. He says, "No, no, I was on the phone. I did not want to let Eric Geller on the
1:02:48
1 hour, 2 minutes, 48 seconds
phone. I didn't want any, you know, I knew how I wanted to word it, present it to uh to Kit Green. So anyway, uh he was
1:02:58
1 hour, 2 minutes, 58 seconds
describing a book that was laying on the desk in front of Kit Green and the description was quite accurate.
1:03:04
1 hour, 3 minutes, 4 seconds
Uh so later on, uh Kit Green is at his house and he's getting ready to uh do an experiment again with Daryl Gella, just
1:03:12
1 hour, 3 minutes, 12 seconds
between him and I this time and uh he's got an envelope with pictures in it. He wants to see if Erie can see him. But
1:03:19
1 hour, 3 minutes, 19 seconds
before that happens, um uh what happens is uh Eric gets excited as only Erie can
1:03:26
1 hour, 3 minutes, 26 seconds
do. He says, "There there's a uh you have a pet that has just knocked over a lamp in one of your rooms." And he's
1:03:34
1 hour, 3 minutes, 34 seconds
describing the scene. And he says, "I'm not aware of anything, but I'll I'll get out and check." And just as Harry Geller had described, there was the the scene
1:03:44
1 hour, 3 minutes, 44 seconds
of the lamp that was falling over on the floor and and the dog and uh so anyway,
1:03:51
1 hour, 3 minutes, 51 seconds
um it's, you know, it's intriguing the different kind of stories and things that uh wide variety of of interesting stuff
1:04:00
1 hour, 4 minutes
that somehow is often interrelated maybe I guess, right?
1:04:04
1 hour, 4 minutes, 4 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. And then you know um of course when I first got in this field I always you know people would say you
1:04:12
1 hour, 4 minutes, 12 seconds
had any experiences I say nope no I'm just a researcher but now I've had you know these unusual things that happened to me not as certainly not as
1:04:20
1 hour, 4 minutes, 20 seconds
spectacular as uh a lot of what other people describe but you know just enough to let me know um we used to have a sweat lodge behind
1:04:28
1 hour, 4 minutes, 28 seconds
our house here Native American sweat lodge do uh ceremonies we had uh you
1:04:35
1 hour, 4 minutes, 35 seconds
um things going on there. I I woke up uh well before I went to to sleep. Um over
1:04:44
1 hour, 4 minutes, 44 seconds
here in the corner of the the west west wall uh there were I had a dresser and on top of it I noticed this Indian blanket,
1:04:53
1 hour, 4 minutes, 53 seconds
Native American Indian blanket and it was it was like it was draped over something and um I thought I don't
1:05:01
1 hour, 5 minutes, 1 second
remember that. And I thought of getting up and going to it. And I got to thinking about the Cherokee little
1:05:08
1 hour, 5 minutes, 8 seconds
people. And I I'm just, you know, I decided it's just a blanket. So I turn off the light. The next morning, the
1:05:17
1 hour, 5 minutes, 17 seconds
sun's coming in the window and I just happened to look over at the dresser and there was no Indian blanket.
1:05:25
1 hour, 5 minutes, 25 seconds
Oh, you got me on that one. I kicked I kicked myself and I was like okay I am just uh you know I I blew that
1:05:33
1 hour, 5 minutes, 33 seconds
opportunity I guess might maybe you made a wise decision you know maybe it was the better better I had a second I had [snorts] a second
1:05:41
1 hour, 5 minutes, 41 seconds
chance it happened again about five weeks later and I got it written down in my journal I I woke up uh for some
1:05:49
1 hour, 5 minutes, 49 seconds
reason around 2 o'clock in the morning 2:30 and uh I wasn't looking for this but I noticed just, you know, I turned on the
1:05:58
1 hour, 5 minutes, 58 seconds
light and lo and behold, the blanket was back on the dresser.
1:06:02
1 hour, 6 minutes, 2 seconds
And so I thought, well, okay, I'm in bed. I just woke up. People are going to say,
1:06:10
1 hour, 6 minutes, 10 seconds
you know, it's uh you're just dreaming or something. So I I sit up and I have my arms stretched and I move them around like this. I pinch myself on the butt.
1:06:22
1 hour, 6 minutes, 22 seconds
I consider myself awake. But then I think but then I you know I kept telling myself happens again I'm going to go over that
1:06:30
1 hour, 6 minutes, 30 seconds
blanket and investigate. You know what I I chickenened out again. I said this is just too weird. Uh um so then I said
1:06:38
1 hour, 6 minutes, 38 seconds
you're not really you're not really a normal blanket or something. You're just not part of this reality or whatever.
1:06:46
1 hour, 6 minutes, 46 seconds
Yeah. And at that point, the blanket, always the blanket, started to get blurry and just disappeared before my
1:06:54
1 hour, 6 minutes, 54 seconds
eyes. Everything else stayed, just the blanket got blurry and was no longer there. Whereas before that, it was clearly a part of my environment, you know. I don't know what that was about.
1:07:04
1 hour, 7 minutes, 4 seconds
I just know that a Native American friend in uh Alabama and some other people around me were having some
1:07:10
1 hour, 7 minutes, 10 seconds
strange experiences. Uh, one person said, as I recall, someone walked out in front of their car and they thought, "Oh
1:07:18
1 hour, 7 minutes, 18 seconds
my god, I'm going to I'm going to kill this person." But then the car just sort of went into them and they were sticking out of the hood like, "Hi." Wow.
1:07:27
1 hour, 7 minutes, 27 seconds
So, and that's some some interesting experiences, that's for sure.
1:07:32
1 hour, 7 minutes, 32 seconds
So, yeah, I you know, but uh it's
1:07:35
1 hour, 7 minutes, 35 seconds
[snorts]
1:07:36
1 hour, 7 minutes, 36 seconds
I don't know. It's just interesting to um try to you know delve into these
1:07:43
1 hour, 7 minutes, 43 seconds
different areas and uh thought about writing an article I like you know just exploring all these different combinations of you know things that
1:07:52
1 hour, 7 minutes, 52 seconds
happened and what is the uh certain psychic or psychological makeup of these people is your your department for sure
1:08:01
1 hour, 8 minutes, 1 second
[laughter]
1:08:03
1 hour, 8 minutes, 3 seconds
uh that makes them prone and counterprone for these kind of things, you know. Right. Right.
1:08:08
1 hour, 8 minutes, 8 seconds
What do you do with that? You know, I mean, some people are going to just dismiss it and say, "Well, there's there's nothing to it. They just, you know,
1:08:15
1 hour, 8 minutes, 15 seconds
but on the other hand, uh I know that Dr. Schwarz and others and you know um and of course I love Jeff Mishlo and his
1:08:25
1 hour, 8 minutes, 25 seconds
uh all his guests and he's he dares to you know even as a psychologist to invite all these people on his new
1:08:32
1 hour, 8 minutes, 32 seconds
thinking lab shows and uh it's quite interesting um but
1:08:40
1 hour, 8 minutes, 40 seconds
was I think I was going to say I was finally able to track down well not me but somebody else uh Bert Hold Schwarz had written some
1:08:48
1 hour, 8 minutes, 48 seconds
articles about uh like the Stella Lansing case that were published in some medical journals like some dental psychometric
1:08:56
1 hour, 8 minutes, 56 seconds
journal or whatever and I for years had looked for copies of those articles but they had been uploaded to internet
1:09:03
1 hour, 9 minutes, 3 seconds
archive through like their microfich of like old medical journals and so I finally got copies of those just like a month or two ago so I still need to read
1:09:11
1 hour, 9 minutes, 11 seconds
them but I've been looking for yeah I'd love to see that too yeah I'll tell you I'll tell you my experience with stellar rancing Um, she had some unusual experiences.
1:09:21
1 hour, 9 minutes, 21 seconds
Um, I I think I remember Dr. Swatch's first visit with her, he'd seen some some UFOs um in her presence,
1:09:30
1 hour, 9 minutes, 30 seconds
but um and and you know, I knew by the time I met him and communicated there was, you know, he'd already written some
1:09:39
1 hour, 9 minutes, 39 seconds
articles and uh I thought, well, I live in Maine. I can just, you know, drive down to Massachusetts and and meet her.
1:09:48
1 hour, 9 minutes, 48 seconds
So, I met her a number of time. first time I met her, I mean, I was just blown away with all the stories and she's showing us real of film after real of
1:09:55
1 hour, 9 minutes, 55 seconds
film. And um then my friend Jim Carrey and I, we drove back that night
1:10:02
1 hour, 10 minutes, 2 seconds
back to Maine. And uh he dropped me off at my house in Hollow. And
1:10:09
1 hour, 10 minutes, 9 seconds
um it was either the next morning or the morning after, but by coincidence about the time I would have got back uh my
1:10:17
1 hour, 10 minutes, 17 seconds
aunt Dot who lived down lower part of the hill uh claimed that she got up to use the bathroom and looked out the window and
1:10:25
1 hour, 10 minutes, 25 seconds
saw a circle of white lights, you know, in a circle and they were silent and they moved around the sky and I thought, "Wow."
1:10:32
1 hour, 10 minutes, 32 seconds
because I was really enchanted at the time with the clockwork images, you know, that Dr. Schwartz had and she
1:10:39
1 hour, 10 minutes, 39 seconds
showed us some and so anyway um they look kind of like luminous dials in a clock and they would overlap frames and Dr. Schwarz would say
1:10:48
1 hour, 10 minutes, 48 seconds
violating the laws of time and space and we consulted with different um people familiar with film and such. I even
1:10:55
1 hour, 10 minutes, 55 seconds
started doing that locally here. But then I contacted Kodak who who developed the uh the film and I started getting it
1:11:03
1 hour, 11 minutes, 3 seconds
myself. So I was getting really concerned, you know, and uh and and and mine were all toward the end of the the
1:11:11
1 hour, 11 minutes, 11 seconds
reel. Now with with uh Stella, she claimed that they weren't always all to the end of the reel, but uh Dr. Schwarz
1:11:19
1 hour, 11 minutes, 19 seconds
had already published a lot of this. I kept on writing people. They said, "Maybe it's a lens flare." No, no, no, not the lens flare. Maybe it's uh this
1:11:28
1 hour, 11 minutes, 28 seconds
and that static electricity. And finally, I talked to someone who was part of the developing tech developing
1:11:36
1 hour, 11 minutes, 36 seconds
technician. He says, "What we do is we have these little rivets and we attach them to the end of each of the 50 foot
1:11:44
1 hour, 11 minutes, 44 seconds
super 8 mm, you know, pieces of film." And uh we went through development that. And so I
1:11:54
1 hour, 11 minutes, 54 seconds
got my I got my reels out which I got them up here on the shelves and I looked at it and it you know it's uh it's
1:12:03
1 hour, 12 minutes, 3 seconds
imprinted on one side but it's not in print on the other. And I think okay that's because it was attached to another one rivets.
1:12:11
1 hour, 12 minutes, 11 seconds
Uh by the time I contact them they didn't have any rivets they said.
1:12:17
1 hour, 12 minutes, 17 seconds
Uh but I contacted Dr. Schwarz about it and he said interesting but you know even when he wrote later about this
1:12:25
1 hour, 12 minutes, 25 seconds
he never never mentioned what I had found and I thought man you know um you know I I respect him in a lot of areas
1:12:33
1 hour, 12 minutes, 33 seconds
but I I always thought it was just um wrong that he hadn't pursued any further. What he did though was he contacted Stella Lancing who called me
1:12:42
1 hour, 12 minutes, 42 seconds
up a little bit irritated with me and says, "I could have told you about Kodak. [laughter]
1:12:48
1 hour, 12 minutes, 48 seconds
She got a little irritated." Uh, but you know, it's I see we got Matt uh Matt here on the on
1:12:57
1 hour, 12 minutes, 57 seconds
the uh getting ready to come up. By the way, I'm going to bring him up and uh you want to I know you said you had to you had to take off, Brent. You're
1:13:04
1 hour, 13 minutes, 4 seconds
welcome to to stay on. I appreciate you coming on with us, but I know you said you had some other stuff to to do. Um, yeah, I got a the next issue of
1:13:12
1 hour, 13 minutes, 12 seconds
Alternate Perceptions coming out. I got a article I got to write to somebody.
1:13:15
1 hour, 13 minutes, 15 seconds
So, yeah, I didn't even think to bring up uh Alternate Perceptions, Mag. I should have uh Let me see if I can share my screen real quick here. And
1:13:24
1 hour, 13 minutes, 24 seconds
yeah, you can find Richard Heiden's article on Simon that he did with Brand I believe in AP Magg.
1:13:30
1 hour, 13 minutes, 30 seconds
Yeah, that was a few years ago. Still working on it. Um, some things I had got off the internet were were incorrect.
1:13:37
1 hour, 13 minutes, 37 seconds
Um, his wife's name and and some things.
1:13:40
1 hour, 13 minutes, 40 seconds
Uh, so we were going to redo it and, uh, I'm still waiting for him. He's really gone a deep dive into contacting all
1:13:48
1 hour, 13 minutes, 48 seconds
kinds of people and trying to, uh, really get a whole big story on that, uh, pulled together.
1:13:56
1 hour, 13 minutes, 56 seconds
Yeah. He was trying to track down a source that like a newspaper article that had claimed that the pancake piece
1:14:04
1 hour, 14 minutes, 4 seconds
had burned in the fire and like I looked through all the paper. I've got like 30 plus newspaper articles on the case
1:14:11
1 hour, 14 minutes, 11 seconds
spread over like three decades in my post about the case and like none I found articles about the fire about his house burning down but none of them
1:14:19
1 hour, 14 minutes, 19 seconds
actually mentioning that and so he doesn't know if it's just something that he fabricated in his own mind but it sounds familiar to me too but we just can't find the source for it. Oh, yeah.
1:14:31
1 hour, 14 minutes, 31 seconds
I think, you know, ever since the article a few years ago, he's, you know, he's been working to try and then I said as soon as we get that done, we'll just
1:14:39
1 hour, 14 minutes, 39 seconds
delete the old one and just put this one in. But, uh um anyway, well, um yeah, if
1:14:47
1 hour, 14 minutes, 47 seconds
uh if anyone has any other questions, but I yeah, I appreciate it. I enjoy talking to all of you, but I I do need Yeah, Brent, thanks for coming on, man.
1:14:56
1 hour, 14 minutes, 56 seconds
We'll uh we'll have to do it again sometime for sure. All righty. Enjoy talking to you. You take care of yourself.
1:15:03
1 hour, 15 minutes, 3 seconds
All right. Thank you very much.
1:15:07
1 hour, 15 minutes, 7 seconds
All right. I'm gonna bring Onap up and I'm going to take a quick break here.
1:15:11
1 hour, 15 minutes, 11 seconds
Let you guys chat for a minute while I check in on the pets. So, you got [snorts] to bribe them with treats for the next.
1:15:17
1 hour, 15 minutes, 17 seconds
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I'll be right back. There he is. It's the brain trust.
1:15:26
1 hour, 15 minutes, 26 seconds
Everybody's here now. Hey gang, what? Wait, so that story he told about
1:15:32
1 hour, 15 minutes, 32 seconds
um about the blanket, what what what exactly happened there?
1:15:41
1 hour, 15 minutes, 41 seconds
I'm not sure.
1:15:43
1 hour, 15 minutes, 43 seconds
[laughter]
1:15:44
1 hour, 15 minutes, 44 seconds
That was I was like, wait, what what happened exactly?
1:15:49
1 hour, 15 minutes, 49 seconds
Yeah, that that's when I got dist distracted. Like sometimes when like he mentioned he was talking about the like the telepathic communication and then
1:15:56
1 hour, 15 minutes, 56 seconds
like that one case I just like it was like a be in my bun and I couldn't remember what the lady's name was and so I was just trying to like Google my
1:16:04
1 hour, 16 minutes, 4 seconds
Google my own Twitter feed like died passed away damn it what's the right keyword I just couldn't find anything
1:16:11
1 hour, 16 minutes, 11 seconds
and then so I was kind of distracted briefly there I didn't hear all of that story yeah that was pretty interesting I was I was like whoa this sounds crazy.
1:16:23
1 hour, 16 minutes, 23 seconds
And with folks, yeah, you know, it's uh surprising how many how to how to say this? You know, there
1:16:30
1 hour, 16 minutes, 30 seconds
there's so many people that are not uh just nuts and bolts, I guess, throughout the years, right? There's been a steady
1:16:37
1 hour, 16 minutes, 37 seconds
there's always been kind of a counterpart to just the nuts and bolts stuff. And I think there's not really even even much in terms of people who
1:16:45
1 hour, 16 minutes, 45 seconds
are nuts and bolts UFO folks left anymore really. was um I mean because really to be nuts and
1:16:53
1 hour, 16 minutes, 53 seconds
bolts you need something nuts and bolts to really look at and work on you know right a little hard to come by.
1:17:00
1 hour, 17 minutes
Yeah. So with that that [clears throat] forthcoming you know we've had to move on to alternate explanations and theories but there was always all these
1:17:07
1 hour, 17 minutes, 7 seconds
other theories like you know there's you know not just keel stuff like Alan Greenwood had something he called the alternate reality theory you know which
1:17:16
1 hour, 17 minutes, 16 seconds
is you know kind of similar all these kind of projections you know perhaps from kind of like a different realm and
1:17:22
1 hour, 17 minutes, 22 seconds
like Jose Qua uh but probably butching his last name he's got his distortion theory you know and they all just kind I
1:17:30
1 hour, 17 minutes, 30 seconds
think developed after people realize like a real ship, something real nuts and bolts isn't coming about. So, we've got to start to look elsewhere. And some
1:17:39
1 hour, 17 minutes, 39 seconds
of these cases are just too weird to be nuts and bolts aliens visiting from another place. Yeah.
1:17:45
1 hour, 17 minutes, 45 seconds
And so, they you have to come up with alternate explanations to explain just the high strangeness and absurdity of some of these kind of cases out there.
1:17:53
1 hour, 17 minutes, 53 seconds
Yeah. I remember even Valet had said, you know, if you even assumed that any percentage of the reported sightings are
1:18:01
1 hour, 18 minutes, 1 second
legitimate, it would be so numerous, you know, we'd have thousands of these intergalactic craft flying around our skies every day. That would be almost,
1:18:10
1 hour, 18 minutes, 10 seconds
you know, scientifically not needed or foolish or whatever, you know, you want to uh Oh, but let me see,
1:18:17
1 hour, 18 minutes, 17 seconds
guys. I did get the uh the box here with the God with the PCinger stuff in it. Yeah. I'm going to see if I can connect my phone camera so I can use it. I don't know.
1:18:26
1 hour, 18 minutes, 26 seconds
It's I'm going to Let's see if I can connect from my phone. But um
1:18:35
1 hour, 18 minutes, 35 seconds
[snorts]
1:18:35
1 hour, 18 minutes, 35 seconds
yeah. Oh, God Molecule. Don't need the helmet, you know.
1:18:39
1 hour, 18 minutes, 39 seconds
Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's the uh the other way these days, right? And here's a another this is just a little note I had written down at the end of my topics
1:18:48
1 hour, 18 minutes, 48 seconds
list for for this week. I don't know why I can't remember why this came up, but now's as a good a time as any, I guess.
1:18:53
1 hour, 18 minutes, 53 seconds
Um, did any of you guys read that old Kevin Randall book he wrote called The October Scenario? No. You guys remember that?
1:19:01
1 hour, 19 minutes, 1 second
He had it was a book Kevin Randall had written. Did you? Okay. And it's been a while since I read it, but he basically, I'm trying to remember, he had this kind
1:19:09
1 hour, 19 minutes, 9 seconds
of interesting or slash odd argument that that the only UFO encounters that were legitimate or were the ones that occurred in October of 1973, if I
1:19:18
1 hour, 19 minutes, 18 seconds
remember. And I'm guessing he just chose that because Yeah.
1:19:23
1 hour, 19 minutes, 23 seconds
Well, there was that was when there was the big flap, you know, the 73 flap that you know Ted Bloker and David Webb have
1:19:31
1 hour, 19 minutes, 31 seconds
their book on the 1973 the humanoid kind of flap. That's just we got the Pasigoula and all these other cases that were popping out like that month. So,
1:19:40
1 hour, 19 minutes, 40 seconds
but why you would argue only those cases are valid, I don't know. Right. Right.
1:19:47
1 hour, 19 minutes, 47 seconds
I was going to comment on the um you know the intersection of like kind of the Um, Tim,
1:19:54
1 hour, 19 minutes, 54 seconds
a cult and nuts and bolts. I mean, you got like Jack Parsons, um, Puharic, Ingo
1:20:01
1 hour, 20 minutes, 1 second
Swan. Um, you can't touch history, too, I think, without having some kind of the the intermingling there. Um, I mean, you
1:20:09
1 hour, 20 minutes, 9 seconds
know, Jeff, we we're in a book club with the Nightcap folks and they were um it started from um folks that were
1:20:18
1 hour, 20 minutes, 18 seconds
supporting George Adamsky and stuff and like some of the experienced folks. Uh [snorts] you can't escape it. So it's it's always been kind of inter
1:20:25
1 hour, 20 minutes, 25 seconds
intertwined and it's really interesting to see like um the prestige of the people you know even he
1:20:33
1 hour, 20 minutes, 33 seconds
was mentioning like pudaf and stuff like that people who credentials who then dabble in those other aspects he you
1:20:42
1 hour, 20 minutes, 42 seconds
know like like my dad in that age grew up reading fake magazine and all the occult stuff and it always stuck with them.
1:20:51
1 hour, 20 minutes, 51 seconds
Well, you know, yeah, there's a there's a paper or a study and God, I'm gonna I can't remember the guy's name though, but they basically looked at early like
1:20:59
1 hour, 20 minutes, 59 seconds
flying saucer culture and these kind of conferences and the like the UFO conferences they would have back in the day. And they talked about how it really
1:21:07
1 hour, 21 minutes, 7 seconds
wasn't open circus to draw the kind of the amount of people you need and to be kind of be financially feasible. these various flying saucer groups like had to
1:21:15
1 hour, 21 minutes, 15 seconds
embrace like the new age, the oult, and all these other weird kind of things that weren't necessarily flying saucer related.
1:21:21
1 hour, 21 minutes, 21 seconds
And so you got like a whole group of people like together that really their their only kind of like commonality is
1:21:29
1 hour, 21 minutes, 29 seconds
that they like believe in the fringe of some kind.
1:21:32
1 hour, 21 minutes, 32 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's an interesting perspective, right? You can't get just enough. You can't get enough just nuts and bolts UFO people
1:21:41
1 hour, 21 minutes, 41 seconds
unless you widen the audience out to all kinds of other, you know, perspectives or or whatever. But I got the box open
1:21:49
1 hour, 21 minutes, 49 seconds
here. I can't get my my phone to connect as another camera. So, we'll just Oh, wow. This is interesting. It's a cap.
1:21:55
1 hour, 21 minutes, 55 seconds
Look at Okay, first I got the I got the the the Windows CD. So, got to figure out how to I don't know. I I thought and
1:22:03
1 hour, 22 minutes, 3 seconds
thought I can't think of anywhere even at my workplace that I have a CD drive anymore. So, I'm going to have to find an actual CD drive.
1:22:09
1 hour, 22 minutes, 9 seconds
I can get one for 20 30 bucks on Amazon or something. Okay. USB one that you can just plug in.
1:22:15
1 hour, 22 minutes, 15 seconds
My staff office, my team office might have a CD drive in there. But look at this is the the cap with the
1:22:23
1 hour, 22 minutes, 23 seconds
what the electro placement. Yeah. It's like a soft Yeah. Yeah.
1:22:28
1 hour, 22 minutes, 28 seconds
Yeah. The most Yeah. There most of them are soft caps. I know. other than the uh the ones they made out of the the moped helmets, right?
1:22:33
1 hour, 22 minutes, 33 seconds
Yeah. Like I was expecting like a baseball hat or [laughter] I don't know.
1:22:37
1 hour, 22 minutes, 37 seconds
Yeah. I've got to figure out uh I think he said a couple of the electrodes had to be need to be reconnected. So I'll
1:22:44
1 hour, 22 minutes, 44 seconds
have to uh And so what was this thing used like supposedly used for exactly?
1:22:51
1 hour, 22 minutes, 51 seconds
Uh this is a version of what Michael Persinger in Canada was using on uh
1:22:58
1 hour, 22 minutes, 58 seconds
there were a lot of documentaries and I guess probably right around the year 2000 where they were showing especially UFO documentaries they would say here's
1:23:06
1 hour, 23 minutes, 6 seconds
a possible explanation the God helmet as presented by Canadian neuroscientist Michael Persinger and uh it would it
1:23:13
1 hour, 23 minutes, 13 seconds
would have these magnets that will pulse into supposedly into your inner temporal lobe which is which is argued to create
1:23:21
1 hour, 23 minutes, 21 seconds
a sense of presence um supposedly maybe responsible for why people would would u experience you know the the word of God
1:23:30
1 hour, 23 minutes, 30 seconds
or or sensing that there's another another uh being in the room or or something like that right
1:23:37
1 hour, 23 minutes, 37 seconds
that's the no I I just don't see how you can get like with a small setup like that the kind of magnetic fields necessary like
1:23:45
1 hour, 23 minutes, 45 seconds
the kind of stuff you would get with like transranial magnetic simulation right Yeah. Yeah. And that that's uh I think the the difficulty, right, is is I
1:23:55
1 hour, 23 minutes, 55 seconds
I don't think that those kind of small magnets would would get I don't know if they'd even get through your skull, much less, you know, all the way down into the innermost part of your brain, right?
1:24:04
1 hour, 24 minutes, 4 seconds
If they reach the outermost, maybe. But somebody said, "Pull the Velcro ring off the hat." There I got the Velcro like
1:24:11
1 hour, 24 minutes, 11 seconds
the I got the little There's a little uh little [laughter] thing on there. Well, [snorts] I I volunteer my brain for any wave testing that people want.
1:24:22
1 hour, 24 minutes, 22 seconds
Wow. So, yeah. So, you can see here's the uh Wait, was that is that was that mutly?
1:24:28
1 hour, 24 minutes, 28 seconds
Yeah, it was. It was. Yeah. I don't know whether the hat was Yeah.
1:24:32
1 hour, 24 minutes, 32 seconds
So, here's the the mag the electromagnets and they'll go onto the cap. I'm assuming
1:24:40
1 hour, 24 minutes, 40 seconds
what depending on where you place them on here. I've got to look at the materials, but I'm assuming it depends where you'll place them on here to what kind of effect you might It's going to
1:24:49
1 hour, 24 minutes, 49 seconds
be a project, so we'll uh we'll see if we can get it going [snorts] eventually.
1:24:55
1 hour, 24 minutes, 55 seconds
It might take a little little work, but do you have like an emergency contact, right? Yeah. Yeah.
1:25:03
1 hour, 25 minutes, 3 seconds
911 testing it. Are you going to be the test subject?
1:25:07
1 hour, 25 minutes, 7 seconds
Plug this into the 210. It's got wires that just loose directly connected to you, right?
1:25:12
1 hour, 25 minutes, 12 seconds
It's like a Friday night in college for me.
1:25:14
1 hour, 25 minutes, 14 seconds
Yeah, bro. I got a God helmet. You want to try?
1:25:17
1 hour, 25 minutes, 17 seconds
That was Yeah, that was actually always my dream in grad school. I said, I'm Sunday and get one of those god helmets.
1:25:22
1 hour, 25 minutes, 22 seconds
So, should tell you something about me, though. Yeah. Yeah. [snorts] So, there's one, two, looks like there's three.
1:25:30
1 hour, 25 minutes, 30 seconds
There's this this set here of an Yeah.
1:25:36
1 hour, 25 minutes, 36 seconds
Uh, and let me see if I can show you guys the uh the website for that's still up, oddly enough, for the let's see the Shiva. Where is it?
1:25:46
1 hour, 25 minutes, 46 seconds
So, were they like selling these helmets at one point?
1:25:50
1 hour, 25 minutes, 50 seconds
My understanding is there was a guy who made a small number of them uh that was working with Persinger that he made them for other people to to commercially buy
1:25:58
1 hour, 25 minutes, 58 seconds
or to buy for testing and stuff like that. So, they made he made a few uh see the wrong tab. Hang on.
1:26:07
1 hour, 26 minutes, 7 seconds
There we go.
1:26:12
1 hour, 26 minutes, 12 seconds
So, I think it's kind of slightly a different version of the same thing that PCinger was. Let's see here. All right, there we go. This was the website they
1:26:21
1 hour, 26 minutes, 21 seconds
were selling this version at. Uh, this was probably 15, 20, maybe 25 years ago now. I don't even know, but probably Yeah, it was probably around 2000. I
1:26:29
1 hour, 26 minutes, 29 seconds
would I would guess I don't think the MCIA card. Yeah, that's probably about 2000, late 90s.
1:26:36
1 hour, 26 minutes, 36 seconds
Yeah. So hoping that the hardware that I can access will be uh you know compatible with USB card. Yeah. Laptop.
1:26:48
1 hour, 26 minutes, 48 seconds
Yeah. Here's a You can't buy them anymore, but they used to sell them here for And there are some uh $650.
1:26:58
1 hour, 26 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
1:27:02
1 hour, 27 minutes, 2 seconds
So, so can someone walk me through this because I think it it fries your brain and then
1:27:08
1 hour, 27 minutes, 8 seconds
like someone is there with you like or something. I'm doing this wrong. Can someone just run the God helmet by me again? And for the people at home?
1:27:19
1 hour, 27 minutes, 19 seconds
Yeah. Jeff, do you have a would you have a good explanation?
1:27:21
1 hour, 27 minutes, 21 seconds
Yeah, please. Somebody give me a little rundown.
1:27:24
1 hour, 27 minutes, 24 seconds
I mean, it's just it it's it's probably in your brain is semi accurate. I think it's it's basically just I think it's
1:27:31
1 hour, 27 minutes, 31 seconds
using you know magnetic s waves signals that are supposed to penetrate your brain and that cause these kind of effects that like could be an experience like seeing God or religious experience.
1:27:41
1 hour, 27 minutes, 41 seconds
That's why it's called the God helmet.
1:27:43
1 hour, 27 minutes, 43 seconds
You know I found a little twominut uh clip that maybe will explain it. I guess let's see.
1:27:48
1 hour, 27 minutes, 48 seconds
Yeah, there we go. Let's see. At the flick of a switch
1:27:54
1 hour, 27 minutes, 54 seconds
[music]
1:28:05
1 hour, 28 minutes, 5 seconds
in the laboratory, we have reproduced every aspect of the God experience, every essence, every component of it.
1:28:12
1 hour, 28 minutes, 12 seconds
From the rising sensation to the feelings of ecstasy to the feelings of a sensed presence to the feelings that you're at one with the universe. We can do that experimentally.
1:28:22
1 hour, 28 minutes, 22 seconds
Professor Persinger has gone straight to the source of creativity, emotion, and fantasy by stimulating this area, the
1:28:29
1 hour, 28 minutes, 29 seconds
temporal loes, and the lyic system with complex magnetic fields that set up electrical charges in the brain.
1:28:38
1 hour, 28 minutes, 38 seconds
In our presence, one subject had a near death experience. A sudden wave of darkness.
1:28:48
1 hour, 28 minutes, 48 seconds
Why did they go his eyes? I mean, is it for the two people have responded in exactly the same way? But all of them come out of
1:28:55
1 hour, 28 minutes, 55 seconds
this chamber with a profound sense that something hugely significant has taken place. It's a sound chamber that doesn't allow
1:29:03
1 hour, 29 minutes, 3 seconds
anything from the outside to come inside. And I start hearing voices. I start seeing things.
1:29:10
1 hour, 29 minutes, 10 seconds
Started with faces. There was a lot of faces but distorted faces moving kind of almost like seeing something through heat.
1:29:18
1 hour, 29 minutes, 18 seconds
I felt a presence behind me like kind of staring down at me and it seemed very strange.
1:29:26
1 hour, 29 minutes, 26 seconds
This presence was it wasn't it wasn't frightening at all. It was very comforting actually. It was like dreaming but I was awake.
1:29:35
1 hour, 29 minutes, 35 seconds
Just like when you have a dream sometimes you wake up and your dreams are just so it was so real. I saw bright lights and I heard voices. Was that God
1:29:44
1 hour, 29 minutes, 44 seconds
speaking or or was that professor persinger just flipping a few switches?
1:29:48
1 hour, 29 minutes, 48 seconds
What we have found is that individuals who have shown temporal lobe sensitivity or creativity and who are very religious in that
1:29:57
1 hour, 29 minutes, 57 seconds
setting they will have a religious experience. We can so uh as he what he just mentioned there was actually something I was interested
1:30:05
1 hour, 30 minutes, 5 seconds
in. If you if you have something like temporal lobe epilepsy, would you be more prone to having the experience if
1:30:12
1 hour, 30 minutes, 12 seconds
you had those magnets applied to your head? I don't know. It's or if you, you know, highly religious as he said or if you're, you know, a UFO abductee or
1:30:21
1 hour, 30 minutes, 21 seconds
whatever else, right? Um I got I gotta say that Mark, that video worked because I want to I want to try this. I'm that video sold me. I want to I want to try this.
1:30:31
1 hour, 30 minutes, 31 seconds
I'm sweating a little bit.
1:30:32
1 hour, 30 minutes, 32 seconds
Yeah, I'm I'm intrigued. We'll start a lab up and uh have you guys swing by and we'll test it out.
1:30:38
1 hour, 30 minutes, 38 seconds
I'm down. [laughter] You know though I I wonder though how much watching that it kind of just
1:30:45
1 hour, 30 minutes, 45 seconds
reminds me of psychedelic experiences and the idea of using things like float tanks to isolate yourself from other
1:30:51
1 hour, 30 minutes, 51 seconds
sensory input and how in the absence of other input your brain particularly if you're creative person like he's talking
1:30:59
1 hour, 30 minutes, 59 seconds
about is going to be more apt to like put imagery you know active imagination and you've got what's come another phrase from the psychedelic community is
1:31:08
1 hour, 31 minutes, 8 seconds
set and setting just the the whole experience And like the stuff you're bringing into it is going to affect which is what he says if you're more
1:31:15
1 hour, 31 minutes, 15 seconds
religious to have these religious type experiences. And you get the same thing with people that trip, right? Some people do DMT. They think those are real
1:31:23
1 hour, 31 minutes, 23 seconds
aliens they're talking to. And I think a lot of that has to come with what they bring into their trip. Whereas me, I've never actually believed that. And so
1:31:31
1 hour, 31 minutes, 31 seconds
when I've had a psychedelic experience, I I've always just considered it a creation of my own mind, my own consciousness. Like I've never thought
1:31:38
1 hour, 31 minutes, 38 seconds
it was anything different than that. And I think I wonder if that comes into play with this guy.
1:31:42
1 hour, 31 minutes, 42 seconds
What was it though, Jeff? Was it did like math come out and chase you or like what happened to you?
1:31:48
1 hour, 31 minutes, 48 seconds
I've I've talked to the space intelligences. I've talked to these one guys that tried to explain to me that the universe works on the rule of three.
1:31:56
1 hour, 31 minutes, 56 seconds
Everything has to be in a triad and how it was the basis for their propulsion and their society, their government and structure. And you know, so I've talked
1:32:05
1 hour, 32 minutes, 5 seconds
to these beings, but I don't believe they're actually external to me. I think they're a creation of my own subconsciousness.
1:32:13
1 hour, 32 minutes, 13 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
1:32:16
1 hour, 32 minutes, 16 seconds
Dr. Tim, what are we waiting for? Are you going to do it? [laughter] If you don't want to do it, I I'll be Hold on. You need like the CD that Do you need like the software?
1:32:26
1 hour, 32 minutes, 26 seconds
I got the software and stuff. So, it'll it'll be a Yeah, it'll be another show before we get to run it, unfortunately.
1:32:32
1 hour, 32 minutes, 32 seconds
I'm excited for that episode. I gotta say, I'm very intrigued by this. Matt, what's your weird projection?
1:32:38
1 hour, 32 minutes, 38 seconds
I I'm I don't know. I don't know what I would see. I'm I'm curious.
1:32:43
1 hour, 32 minutes, 43 seconds
Yeah, I think I'd see a I don't know, an alien an alien. Uh,
1:32:50
1 hour, 32 minutes, 50 seconds
you know, that picture of Valet on the cover of his book where he's got the alien holding the mask of a demon in front of it and then holding the mask of an angel [laughter] or something in front of it. Yeah.
1:32:58
1 hour, 32 minutes, 58 seconds
Passport to Yeah. Meonia, right? Yeah. Mhm.
1:33:03
1 hour, 33 minutes, 3 seconds
But yeah, it's the newer one, not not the original password. Okay. Yeah.
1:33:09
1 hour, 33 minutes, 9 seconds
But yeah, I think I can take the disc to maybe my my work uh and get and rip it into a just pull an image off the disc.
1:33:15
1 hour, 33 minutes, 15 seconds
So Jeff said an ISO image of it. Yeah. Just laugh at you and then
1:33:23
1 hour, 33 minutes, 23 seconds
you'll get it. Got to figure out where to actually put the electrodes on the hat and then hopefully plugging it into
1:33:31
1 hour, 33 minutes, 31 seconds
the audio out port, I guess, is the idea.
1:33:35
1 hour, 33 minutes, 35 seconds
Does it come with those eye blockers that guy was wearing?
1:33:38
1 hour, 33 minutes, 38 seconds
No. No. I got to make your own eye blockers. Okay.
1:33:41
1 hour, 33 minutes, 41 seconds
Just get you a ping pong ball and cut it in half, right?
1:33:44
1 hour, 33 minutes, 44 seconds
Those were pretty crazy looking, those eye blockers.
1:33:46
1 hour, 33 minutes, 46 seconds
Like a like a sleeping mask would have done it. They didn't have to like shove gauze in his eye. [laughter] I know.
1:33:53
1 hour, 33 minutes, 53 seconds
But if you I point out if you don't wear them if what means you try to leave your eyes open what happens? What happens? Good question.
1:34:01
1 hour, 34 minutes, 1 second
Because just like with psychedelics, a lot of them the best visuals are what's called closed eye visuals. You only get them with your eyes closed when you don't have that other stimulation out
1:34:09
1 hour, 34 minutes, 9 seconds
there. Like you open your eyes and it's almost like you're not even tripping at all. But like the second you close your eyes, you're like, "Holy crap, what the like Yeah.
1:34:17
1 hour, 34 minutes, 17 seconds
Like kind of strobeby. Yeah.
1:34:19
1 hour, 34 minutes, 19 seconds
Yeah. you know, looks like it's a regular audio out jack. So, wow.
1:34:27
1 hour, 34 minutes, 27 seconds
Yeah, that that kind of reminds me of that device I mentioned the other time that my dad got from one of his chiropractic clients that was uh like a
1:34:34
1 hour, 34 minutes, 34 seconds
binaural beats device with flash stroke flashing for your eyes and it was totally homemade, you know. It was like some glasses that somebody had took the
1:34:42
1 hour, 34 minutes, 42 seconds
lenses out of and like taped on like these LEDs like on the corner and you had to hook it up with a serial port, you know, like on a old on an old
1:34:50
1 hour, 34 minutes, 50 seconds
computer there and it would blink the lights and play the music. Very very amateur.
1:34:59
1 hour, 34 minutes, 59 seconds
Just check the comments.
1:35:02
1 hour, 35 minutes, 2 seconds
or that guy that created the time machine for Art Bell that was just like a telephone cord cable and you [clears throat] know it could I don't remember that one
1:35:10
1 hour, 35 minutes, 10 seconds
transfer himself in and he used to he sold kits like you could buy kits of it.
1:35:14
1 hour, 35 minutes, 14 seconds
Yeah. [laughter] Uh so um you know I guess guys we better
1:35:23
1 hour, 35 minutes, 23 seconds
we better be ready because this could be the last show UFOs are going to be you know now that the the uh NDAs have been waved. I guess we're going to everything
1:35:32
1 hour, 35 minutes, 32 seconds
will be Eric Davis is already ready to spill the beans finally. Yeah. Yeah.
1:35:40
1 hour, 35 minutes, 40 seconds
He's he's already said that it it's no good. Still not going to talk. Yeah. Of course.
1:35:45
1 hour, 35 minutes, 45 seconds
Always be an excuse, right? Like Yeah.
1:35:48
1 hour, 35 minutes, 48 seconds
You know, he's immediately illegally kill us. It's like, so what do you want? You want like a full-time Secret Service for the rest of your
1:35:56
1 hour, 35 minutes, 56 seconds
life? Like what? I don't What are you asking for here? Because legally kill us if we say something that is not the same thing we've said repeatedly to anyone
1:36:04
1 hour, 36 minutes, 4 seconds
who will listen to us in the first place. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Well, like you said, at least we got Dr.
1:36:12
1 hour, 36 minutes, 12 seconds
Phil on the case. Uh he's going to solve the UFO mystery for us, man.
1:36:17
1 hour, 36 minutes, 17 seconds
He has his own um network now, doesn't he? Isn't he like kind of going the Oprah route?
1:36:22
1 hour, 36 minutes, 22 seconds
I think I saw that. He's got a, you know, there's always something in it for, you know, I thought he was attention academy
1:36:30
1 hour, 36 minutes, 30 seconds
comedian now. Like that's literally the only place I've ever seen him is like my brother puts on Kill Tony and he's on that show all the time with those
1:36:39
1 hour, 36 minutes, 39 seconds
comedian guys talking [ __ ] Like I thought that's all he does now.
1:36:44
1 hour, 36 minutes, 44 seconds
[laughter]
1:36:45
1 hour, 36 minutes, 45 seconds
Yeah, it's uh the Dr. Phil things seemed a pretty obvious uh play to rope in some
1:36:53
1 hour, 36 minutes, 53 seconds
viewers for whatever his his new network or show or I don't know. It didn't seem uh it's certainly attention economy.
1:37:00
1 hour, 37 minutes
He's he's here to pacify us for Disclosure Day to to make us ready.
1:37:05
1 hour, 37 minutes, 5 seconds
So, did you guys all see Disclosure Day, by the way? Because I just finally watched it this week and I was just curious what you guys thought of it.
1:37:12
1 hour, 37 minutes, 12 seconds
I watched it. Yeah, I was supposed to see it in theaters for like the last month and a half, but I've got really crappy in real life friends that always
1:37:20
1 hour, 37 minutes, 20 seconds
bail on me. So, I didn't make it, but it came out on demand on my birthday on Tuesday, and so I decided to watch it.
1:37:27
1 hour, 37 minutes, 27 seconds
And I'll say it's [snorts] it's I mean, it wasn't boring. Um, I'll give it that it about a thousand% too
1:37:35
1 hour, 37 minutes, 35 seconds
much lens flare. Like a ridiculous amount of lens flare. Um, and I think it would have worked better as like a TV miniseries kind of like Taken.
1:37:44
1 hour, 37 minutes, 44 seconds
Sure.
1:37:44
1 hour, 37 minutes, 44 seconds
Because it kind of was like a arc of the X Files that they cut down for a like a TV movie version. Like it just didn't really have the blockbuster quality I
1:37:53
1 hour, 37 minutes, 53 seconds
expected from Spielberg, but it was entertaining enough to watch, right? It it was like there was like a lot of stuff going on. It it keeps your
1:38:00
1 hour, 38 minutes
attention, but it it just it doesn't feel like a Spielberg, you know? You feel like you're watching something that was made for TV. Yeah. Like you said.
1:38:10
1 hour, 38 minutes, 10 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. Two two trillion.
1:38:13
1 hour, 38 minutes, 13 seconds
I was hoping for, you know, Spielberg's got to have the got to have a ET or Close Encounter stuff. It's just I just
1:38:21
1 hour, 38 minutes, 21 seconds
didn't have the same feel from what Little I saw. There was like one shot of the alien at the end and he's that gimped up alien they got to lift up out of the chair and pop him forward. And
1:38:30
1 hour, 38 minutes, 30 seconds
I I was cracking up at that part. I was like, "Oh, come on. They got He can't just stand up. They got to have the whole chair and wheel him in." Like I was like, "This is too much." Yeah, they
1:38:39
1 hour, 38 minutes, 39 seconds
they kind of wrap it up pretty quick, too. That was kind of lame where he's just like, I'll throw in the towel, I guess, right?
1:38:44
1 hour, 38 minutes, 44 seconds
70 years and let's just see what happens. Yeah.
1:38:47
1 hour, 38 minutes, 47 seconds
And and this was what I thought was the most ridiculous is like they do all this the whole movie is all about this prep that this whole team of people's doing
1:38:54
1 hour, 38 minutes, 54 seconds
and they have to steal all this stuff and then at the end they just wheel out this alien. And I was like, wait, if you had the alien the whole time, why didn't
1:39:02
1 hour, 39 minutes, 2 seconds
you just wheel the alien out on on the news show? And and boom, there's your disclosure. That's the question of Yeah, that's always a question, right? If you got the alien, just wheel it out, right?
1:39:11
1 hour, 39 minutes, 11 seconds
Yeah. Why did you have to do all the other stuff? If you have that alien, just chill it in that box. Yeah.
1:39:16
1 hour, 39 minutes, 16 seconds
Let's see if I can I thought they also just overdid it with the religious crap like like the whole idea is still that like, oh, it's going
1:39:24
1 hour, 39 minutes, 24 seconds
to ruin the world if people find like I think that's just so dumb. Like that I don't think that was ever the case and it's certainly not the case in 2026.
1:39:33
1 hour, 39 minutes, 33 seconds
No. No. [laughter] Think we got it. We got a match, folks.
1:39:38
1 hour, 39 minutes, 38 seconds
Steve, come on, man.
1:39:43
1 hour, 39 minutes, 43 seconds
Oh, well, yeah.
1:39:48
1 hour, 39 minutes, 48 seconds
Well, I'm um I don't know if uh I'm sure Jeff, you probably know him. I don't know if any of you other you guys know Smiles Lewis from Anomaly Archives. I know I
1:39:57
1 hour, 39 minutes, 57 seconds
mentioned him last week about the uh the Moth Man stuff.
1:40:00
1 hour, 40 minutes
He said he'd come on with us here in the in the future sometime and Oh, very cool.
1:40:03
1 hour, 40 minutes, 3 seconds
Hop on and Yeah. Yeah. What did what did you guys think of Brent? So, I listened.
1:40:08
1 hour, 40 minutes, 8 seconds
Uh, he had he's got a million stories. He's been at it a long time.
1:40:14
1 hour, 40 minutes, 14 seconds
Um, what I didn't hear, what I was curious if you picked up on this, too, is like, well, how did you guys, you know, I'm not he's not here to ask, but what did you guys take away from it?
1:40:25
1 hour, 40 minutes, 25 seconds
like like hearing kind of like the um um the 40ian side, the more like John Keel side of things like how did you
1:40:34
1 hour, 40 minutes, 34 seconds
you know we're talking about the mix of nuts and bolts and like the woo side. What what was your reaction to that?
1:40:42
1 hour, 40 minutes, 42 seconds
So yeah, go ahead.
1:40:44
1 hour, 40 minutes, 44 seconds
Just uh the first thing that jumps to my mind is I'm always fascinated when there's this connection between
1:40:50
1 hour, 40 minutes, 50 seconds
people who have died and UFO stuff. Um there, you know, obviously there have been some UFO stories with that, but
1:40:58
1 hour, 40 minutes, 58 seconds
it's always very, it seems like a very hard thing to try to figure out how it goes together, right? I mean, it it's of course, you know, people have their
1:41:05
1 hour, 41 minutes, 5 seconds
their their ideas, but um is that like trauma if I I'm not a professional here and trauma is not an easy thing to throw around, but like it
1:41:13
1 hour, 41 minutes, 13 seconds
feels like um an event happens and then a series of events follows. Is that accurate or is it in the ballpark? At
1:41:22
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least it might be very complicated. For example, I think it Yeah, I think it I think it could be sometimes at least. I always think, you know, especially just for the
1:41:29
1 hour, 41 minutes, 29 seconds
example of of like the classic kind of UFO abduction thing. If I'm, you know, if I think back to my childhood or I am
1:41:37
1 hour, 41 minutes, 37 seconds
a child and and I live with say an abusive parent, maybe it's easier for me to think about the source of that abuse as some being from somewhere else than
1:41:46
1 hour, 41 minutes, 46 seconds
it is to think about it as the person who's supposed to be taking care of me.
1:41:50
1 hour, 41 minutes, 50 seconds
Yeah. Um, but death as a religious experience too is something that kind of opens you up to like possibilities, I suppose.
1:41:58
1 hour, 41 minutes, 58 seconds
Whether it be religion itself or just kind of like, you know, I'm one with, you know what I mean? Like your mind kind of opens up to like
1:42:06
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being insignificant or like a piece of a speck, I guess, like maybe it's not religious, but something like that. I feel like you're
1:42:15
1 hour, 42 minutes, 15 seconds
open to weird ideas. Um, I guess like suggestability too, like you know, I think of C5 and stuff like that, like the whole protocol is like a meditation
1:42:23
1 hour, 42 minutes, 23 seconds
where it's like relax, you're gonna see a thing and like of course you're going to see a thing if like your intentions to see a thing and you're relaxed and you're you know what
1:42:32
1 hour, 42 minutes, 32 seconds
I mean? Like I feel like that's kind of like the openness part of it.
1:42:35
1 hour, 42 minutes, 35 seconds
Yeah. when he was telling that story about uh that guy that basically would like tell people these experiences going to happen like he talked about that
1:42:42
1 hour, 42 minutes, 42 seconds
cloudy kind of experience and like it kind of then grabbed like that just reminded me 100% of some Steven Greer C5
1:42:49
1 hour, 42 minutes, 49 seconds
contact events where people say they saw like something in like a foggy mist like you know that they were looking at like and the UFO came out of the fog and
1:42:57
1 hour, 42 minutes, 57 seconds
it just goes to show that this this idea C5 or like psionics or calling the aliens down has existed long before
1:43:05
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those guys started talking about it way back in the day and I absolutely think it has to do with suggestability.
1:43:11
1 hour, 43 minutes, 11 seconds
It's like you go to any Skywatch event, like you go to a UFO conference and you go to the Skywatch, there will always be people that think they've seen UFOs even though they're
1:43:19
1 hour, 43 minutes, 19 seconds
planes or satellites or whatever because they go there with the idea that they're going to see something and then they see something.
1:43:26
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UFOs on the brain makes you see UFOs.
1:43:29
1 hour, 43 minutes, 29 seconds
Yeah. And in a lot of ways, what what the advice that you get from like the C5 proponents or or the, you know, the Greer camp would be they'll tell you
1:43:38
1 hour, 43 minutes, 38 seconds
kind of the exact opposite of what in therapy they would tell you, which is don't lean into your imagination about things that, you know, we encourage people not to speculate or try to try
1:43:48
1 hour, 43 minutes, 48 seconds
to, you know, self-hypnotize, to retrieve, you know, details about childhood abuse that they can't really nail down without because you're just
1:43:56
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you're just as likely to create a false memory, you know, in those situations.
1:43:59
1 hour, 43 minutes, 59 seconds
So, right.
1:44:01
1 hour, 44 minutes, 1 second
Yeah, it's bad enough when the therapists are doing it and creating false memories in their own patients, which is
1:44:08
1 hour, 44 minutes, 8 seconds
common. [snorts] Um, I didn't hear this part of the interview, too. Did you guys get a chance to ask them about um like their relationship with Keel and like he
1:44:16
1 hour, 44 minutes, 16 seconds
mentioned like Pudof and stuff like that? Like just wondered a third party um you know opinion on on on those
1:44:26
1 hour, 44 minutes, 26 seconds
folks. Did he share anything? I was having a little bit of audio but a little bit of audio issue so I might have missed some some details actually but um
1:44:34
1 hour, 44 minutes, 34 seconds
yeah the thing with Keel I was interested as to whether Keel had had been initially nuts and bolts and it sounded like he kind of moved more towards the
1:44:42
1 hour, 44 minutes, 42 seconds
you know the Jim used to call it a 4D perspective or a a nonextraterrestrial perspective over over time but
1:44:51
1 hour, 44 minutes, 51 seconds
Ke [snorts] just he wrote a lot of lot of articles like he wrote for Playboy you know like he visited Nikap in April
1:44:59
1 hour, 44 minutes, 59 seconds
1966 because he was writing an article on UFOs for Playboy several years ago a company called New
1:45:06
1 hour, 45 minutes, 6 seconds
South Press which like the Syrian was like Greg Barker the company and there's a new company called New South Press that started putting out these
1:45:15
1 hour, 45 minutes, 15 seconds
compilations of Ke's articles. Um this guy I think Andrew Culvin or Andy something one some guy started editing these and I've got like a stack of them.
1:45:25
1 hour, 45 minutes, 25 seconds
I got like a stack like freaking this big of these different keel article books like because he'd have articles in
1:45:32
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Argusy, Saga, UFO, Playboy, you know, Mainstream magazines, UFO magazines, Fate. There's just like a whole ton of them that you can get.
1:45:44
1 hour, 45 minutes, 44 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. I know. Um, trying to remember who it was that told me that that it was Gray Barker that used to call John Ke with some of those calls
1:45:51
1 hour, 45 minutes, 51 seconds
that Keel would write about as being um, you know, mysterious that they may have been Gray Barker drinking and calling
1:45:58
1 hour, 45 minutes, 58 seconds
Keel and putting on a show. But well, let's see what Let me check my list here.
1:46:07
1 hour, 46 minutes, 7 seconds
Well, I I will save this story, I guess.
1:46:09
1 hour, 46 minutes, 9 seconds
I I was going to mention somebody had asked me about the uh my training time at when I did the JB Ryan uh RV training. Maybe it was you. Maybe it was
1:46:17
1 hour, 46 minutes, 17 seconds
uh I think it was maybe it was paranormal that asked about it. Um but I it came up some somewhere a few weeks
1:46:24
1 hour, 46 minutes, 24 seconds
ago. Somebody had asked me about I did uh it's probably 10 years ago now. Uh the JB Ryan Institute in Carolina. It's
1:46:31
1 hour, 46 minutes, 31 seconds
it's next to Duke. Uh JB Ryan was an ESP researcher in what the 50s. He was actually a Duke professor, but after he
1:46:39
1 hour, 46 minutes, 39 seconds
died, they pushed all the research out to a private inst entity. Anyway, Joe McMongle was doing a training um an RV
1:46:47
1 hour, 46 minutes, 47 seconds
training in uh at the at at the Ryan Institute. He had uh was it Ed May, the guy that did the the experimental re the design research? I think it was Ed May
1:46:56
1 hour, 46 minutes, 56 seconds
was there. Anyway, um long and short of it, I'm pretty skeptical of our of remote viewing, of course, but uh at the
1:47:04
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at the at the final thing, it was just a dayong thing, but the final thing was a a closed session where, you know, they sealed this envelope is sealed, you know, and you got to draw it or
1:47:12
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whatever. And I did I drew something that I thought was kind of after you know after the fact looked a little bit I I was kind of surprised it was generally looked a little bit like like
1:47:21
1 hour, 47 minutes, 21 seconds
the target. But I mean how do you remote viewing works is that after the fact you can say well that that's a that
1:47:30
1 hour, 47 minutes, 30 seconds
looks like a fence post and that looks like a like it's close enough. There's so much object subjective.
1:47:37
1 hour, 47 minutes, 37 seconds
Well, you know the weirder thing you and you guys may or may not know this, but then they claim that you could actually pick the target after you done the remote viewing because it's also not
1:47:46
1 hour, 47 minutes, 46 seconds
bound by time just like it's not bound by space. So, I could have you draw the remote viewing image and then later tomorrow I could go pick out what the
1:47:53
1 hour, 47 minutes, 53 seconds
target is and then we match them up and somehow you could see through time as well as kind of lead people on. Yeah.
1:48:01
1 hour, 48 minutes, 1 second
Yeah. Yeah. So, so what what is it I guess like what is tricking people? Like is it do
1:48:08
1 hour, 48 minutes, 8 seconds
people I feel like people talk about intuition and intuition is the kind of like that very um vague description for
1:48:16
1 hour, 48 minutes, 16 seconds
like a Jins Qua like you know what I mean like it's re it's recall right you're going into your RAM I guess kind of not your RAM you're going to your
1:48:23
1 hour, 48 minutes, 23 seconds
memory banks for something and you have an inclination but it's actually just like synapse firing and you actually correctly doing something right
1:48:31
1 hour, 48 minutes, 31 seconds
what what is there like a relationship there between that and remote viewing that kind of shoots a dopamine or like
1:48:38
1 hour, 48 minutes, 38 seconds
it's intuition because I feel like people are like, "Oh, I knew that somehow." And just like convince yourself you knew it, but what what is happening there? I guess what's the
1:48:46
1 hour, 48 minutes, 46 seconds
reward system for remote viewing that keeps people thinking that it works and they keep doing it? I guess that's the power question.
1:48:53
1 hour, 48 minutes, 53 seconds
Yeah. I I don't know if this exactly answers that, but it makes me think of there's a concept in psychology called translality
1:49:00
1 hour, 49 minutes
where or or sometimes you hear boundary thinness. These are all a lot of things that are like almost the same thing but not exactly in the same box. You're like
1:49:07
1 hour, 49 minutes, 7 seconds
fantasy proness or boundary thinness or they're not not completely overlapping but kind of similar. But the trans liimmonality thing my understanding is
1:49:15
1 hour, 49 minutes, 15 seconds
that the kind of like the internal boundaries between my conscious and unconscious are thinner or more permeable. So, uh maybe that's maybe a
1:49:25
1 hour, 49 minutes, 25 seconds
way to explain it, but but um yeah, I I think that you maybe are picking up on I I think of uh of um
1:49:34
1 hour, 49 minutes, 34 seconds
intuition as processing that my brain is doing that I'm just not consciously aware of.
1:49:39
1 hour, 49 minutes, 39 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. Like you think of like a chess player and they're like, "Oh, I just know the move." And I'm like, "I'm pretty sure your synapses are just firing like this." And you don't realize that you just right have instant recall for a memory.
1:49:49
1 hour, 49 minutes, 49 seconds
like you had to you had to have experienced it or learned it or seen a position to do it and if you can do that quickly that that is has nothing to do
1:49:58
1 hour, 49 minutes, 58 seconds
with intelligence has everything to do with like you know uh calling a storage from your brain or whatever. Yeah.
1:50:05
1 hour, 50 minutes, 5 seconds
I'm reminded of like like TV shows like Psych or like even shows like the mentalist where like these people they're not really psychic. They don't really have any sort of psychic ability.
1:50:15
1 hour, 50 minutes, 15 seconds
It's just they're really like subconsciously acutely aware of their environment and are processing things at a subconscious level that other people just like are just not as talented as.
1:50:26
1 hour, 50 minutes, 26 seconds
But it's nothing like psychic. It's not like intuition like it's just it's it's your brain like picking up on processing things, you know? Uh to bring it to like UFOs or
1:50:35
1 hour, 50 minutes, 35 seconds
I guess adjacent uh Chris Ramsey who is uh a podcaster and personality who's a magician who does some of this too. I
1:50:43
1 hour, 50 minutes, 43 seconds
think he gave away one of his tricks on like I guess it's like um a statistically large amount of it it
1:50:50
1 hour, 50 minutes, 50 seconds
seems to be women I think he said um they're like ATM passcode or like their four-digit passcode is their birthday or combination of their birthday.
1:50:59
1 hour, 50 minutes, 59 seconds
Yeah.
1:50:59
1 hour, 50 minutes, 59 seconds
And so he would just get it right you know it's like basically say if pick a number one through 10 and you say seven like most people somehow get to seven
1:51:07
1 hour, 51 minutes, 7 seconds
statistically for some reason it's something like that where you're just like oh it's what's your birthday? Well, that's your, you know, if I know your birthday, then that's your ATM code or something like that.
1:51:16
1 hour, 51 minutes, 16 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
1:51:17
1 hour, 51 minutes, 17 seconds
That's why there's like there's a big connection between like magic and the psychology like people that study psychology and like there's whole fields
1:51:25
1 hour, 51 minutes, 25 seconds
of psychology like the psychology of magic like that study things like this because a lot of a lot of like mentalism as you point out is prediction. It's like you know statistics, probability
1:51:33
1 hour, 51 minutes, 33 seconds
and prediction that you're doing. So,
1:51:36
1 hour, 51 minutes, 36 seconds
[snorts]
1:51:36
1 hour, 51 minutes, 36 seconds
yeah. I mean, Matt, you do this probably you're in the line of work, too, like when you're trying to tell a story, like when you're creating cuts and stuff, like you're trying to lead the witness a
1:51:44
1 hour, 51 minutes, 44 seconds
little bit and having people kind of anticipate the next thing, right?
1:51:48
1 hour, 51 minutes, 48 seconds
Yeah. We, you know, we you look for patterns. There's certain types of bites and pieces of dialogue that we know will
1:51:56
1 hour, 51 minutes, 56 seconds
fit well and land with audiences in general better than other bites. So it's like pattern recognition like oh look
1:52:03
1 hour, 52 minutes, 3 seconds
for a bite where someone sounds excited and says this is and then add something like this is happening or this is what's
1:52:11
1 hour, 52 minutes, 11 seconds
really going on because that's such a that's such a bite that hits with people in general. Yeah. Yeah.
1:52:20
1 hour, 52 minutes, 20 seconds
It's like completing people's sentences almost or like they anticipate the next thing.
1:52:24
1 hour, 52 minutes, 24 seconds
Yeah. Exactly. A lot of trailer building is really kind of finding sound bites that you know resonate with people that
1:52:32
1 hour, 52 minutes, 32 seconds
will just continue the story and fill in, you know, the gaps basically.
1:52:37
1 hour, 52 minutes, 37 seconds
So, do you do you start with the end in mind like this is the emotion or like how do you end with it? I guess um or like how do you strategize? You're
1:52:45
1 hour, 52 minutes, 45 seconds
like, I want them to be sad or I want them to be pumped or I want them to be whatever. You know, it's it's a little bit you what the way it kind of works is
1:52:52
1 hour, 52 minutes, 52 seconds
you they send you the show or the movie, you watch it, uh you get a feel for the vibe, and then maybe two or three editors go at it at three different
1:53:00
1 hour, 53 minutes
ways. So, one guy is cutting it in a way where it's like, oh, let's let's let's really advertise the like mystery
1:53:07
1 hour, 53 minutes, 7 seconds
element of this and make it so that this appeals to people looking for mystery.
1:53:11
1 hour, 53 minutes, 11 seconds
another editor will go at the angle of, oh, let's let's make this appeal to to women because this is a movie that should appeal to women and and we should
1:53:19
1 hour, 53 minutes, 19 seconds
find bites that and and scenes that really show off uh you know, things that resonate with women. And then the third guy will maybe just try something
1:53:27
1 hour, 53 minutes, 27 seconds
totally random and and and just go through the movie and look for things and just kind of start putting together like a puzzle and he'll end up with
1:53:34
1 hour, 53 minutes, 34 seconds
something that either works or maybe it doesn't. What's the easiest emotion you can get like someone to feel like through a a trailer?
1:53:42
1 hour, 53 minutes, 42 seconds
Good question. Um, good question. Pro, you know, the hardest is probably comedy and is to get a good laugh.
1:53:50
1 hour, 53 minutes, 50 seconds
There's no there's no more comedy movies anymore, right? The hardest I'd say is is cutting a a comedic trailer for something. Those are those are harder and a bit rarer.
1:53:59
1 hour, 53 minutes, 59 seconds
Easy, I would say, is like just drawing intrigue. Like drawing making something seem more intriguing than it is. Yeah.
1:54:07
1 hour, 54 minutes, 7 seconds
Yeah. If you're on X-ray the whole basis of a trailer.
1:54:10
1 hour, 54 minutes, 10 seconds
Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's really mostly that makes let's make something look more intriguing than it actually is.
1:54:16
1 hour, 54 minutes, 16 seconds
But if you think of the news, you can get people to get mad like mad brings people back like that. What I just think of like social media and I think of the
1:54:25
1 hour, 54 minutes, 25 seconds
news and if you say something that triggers someone trigger usually means it's gonna like cause a angry maybe not angry all the time but
1:54:32
1 hour, 54 minutes, 32 seconds
certainly like a fight or flight like a reaction.
1:54:35
1 hour, 54 minutes, 35 seconds
That's that's a different kind of like entertainment strategy. That's like a that's like a let's generate buzz, controversy, let's stir anger, let's
1:54:43
1 hour, 54 minutes, 43 seconds
stir engagement. Trailers, you're not really doing that. Trailers and and ads for shows at least you're really trying to they really don't want you doing
1:54:51
1 hour, 54 minutes, 51 seconds
that. They want you try to suck people in in ways that are like really inviting and relatable basically. Yeah. Wanty and longing.
1:55:01
1 hour, 55 minutes, 1 second
To make you think a c a seale movie is actually a Oscar winning movie that you want to see cuz how many trailers have
1:55:09
1 hour, 55 minutes, 9 seconds
you watched that the trailer was like, "Oh my god, that looks awesome." Then you watch the movie and the movie just sucked. It was like, "Yeah, how is this happening?" Happens all the time. It happens all the
1:55:17
1 hour, 55 minutes, 17 seconds
time where we we'll make a trailer and we'll be like, "This is a dog [ __ ] show.
1:55:22
1 hour, 55 minutes, 22 seconds
Let's make this thing look awesome and and it will in the trailer and we'll everyone who worked on it will have hated it." What's What's the perfect example of
1:55:30
1 hour, 55 minutes, 30 seconds
that? I I The only movie I've ever walked out on or is is probably comedies. I've I've walked out in comedies that weren't funny. Uh like uh
1:55:38
1 hour, 55 minutes, 38 seconds
is it Grown-Ups? I think Grown-Ups I I just walked out of. I was like, "Nope, can't do it." There was there was a movie called Push. I remember I saw when
1:55:45
1 hour, 55 minutes, 45 seconds
I was a kid or like a middle schooler and the trailer made it look kind of intriguing and then by like by 20 minutes in I think I walked out because I was like I hate this.
1:55:55
1 hour, 55 minutes, 55 seconds
Is that the one with Chris Evans in it?
1:55:57
1 hour, 55 minutes, 57 seconds
I think so. Yeah, I think I could push people with like your Yeah.
1:56:01
1 hour, 56 minutes, 1 second
Oh my god. I remember this trailer got me intrigued. I saw it. I walked out in 20 minutes.
1:56:08
1 hour, 56 minutes, 8 seconds
It's It's a movie literally about pushing people with your brain.
1:56:11
1 hour, 56 minutes, 11 seconds
[laughter]
1:56:12
1 hour, 56 minutes, 12 seconds
It's like the Jedi Force push, but it's just that one that just that one power. All right.
1:56:18
1 hour, 56 minutes, 18 seconds
No, we don't have money for special effects. You're just going to have to pretend like you got pushed by like you felt. [laughter] Yeah. Well, speaking of of kind of
1:56:27
1 hour, 56 minutes, 27 seconds
related to talking about expectation and all that kind of stuff, uh this popped in my mind my mind since we were talking about briefly about valet. I think it
1:56:34
1 hour, 56 minutes, 34 seconds
was I seem to remember he had asked Whitley Strieber to change the cover of the communion book for the international version because he wanted to see if it
1:56:42
1 hour, 56 minutes, 42 seconds
would change the uh the abduction reports that came in from people in those countries. My recollection being that Whitley said he didn't want to do
1:56:50
1 hour, 56 minutes, 50 seconds
that because he was afraid it would hurt the sales of the book in the other countries. But that would have been interesting, right? To see if you changed it to a different kind of entity
1:56:58
1 hour, 56 minutes, 58 seconds
if if you'd have people reporting that instead of instead of the big eyed, you know, gray or whatever you'd call streamers thing. But
1:57:07
1 hour, 57 minutes, 7 seconds
because how many people have used that book cover to say that that kind of made them remember something like everyone Gary Nolan I believe to like a lot of
1:57:14
1 hour, 57 minutes, 14 seconds
these people like they say seeing that book cover like in a bookstore or something like was like a light bulb for them and it kicked something off. It's a trigger. Yeah.
1:57:22
1 hour, 57 minutes, 22 seconds
Yeah.
1:57:23
1 hour, 57 minutes, 23 seconds
Yeah. I've heard somebody uh Go ahead, Matt. Sorry.
1:57:26
1 hour, 57 minutes, 26 seconds
I was just going to say I've heard the same thing Jeff was just saying. I I always hear Oh, I saw the book cover. It drew me right in. Yeah.
1:57:34
1 hour, 57 minutes, 34 seconds
Somebody uh posted on um on Twitter recently in response to something Gary Nolan he had described and I haven't
1:57:42
1 hour, 57 minutes, 42 seconds
didn't even read I haven't read all of his story about riding a bicycle as a kid and seeing an alien or whatever but anyway the the person had quoted his his
1:57:50
1 hour, 57 minutes, 50 seconds
tweet and said aren't these respon aren't these descriptions of the same thing it sounds like sleep paralysis and
1:57:57
1 hour, 57 minutes, 57 seconds
it was like yeah that's people can be intelligent quote unquote and still not be able or willing to
1:58:05
1 hour, 58 minutes, 5 seconds
discern something that should be. I mean, wouldn't it be odd if aliens abducted people and the and the the encounters with that were identical to
1:58:14
1 hour, 58 minutes, 14 seconds
natural human phenomenon like sleep paralysis? I mean, it'd be kind of a big coincidence if aliens did the exact same thing that
1:58:21
1 hour, 58 minutes, 21 seconds
Well, wait till you put your god helmet on, Dr. Tim. Right.
1:58:24
1 hour, 58 minutes, 24 seconds
Tell us uh you tell us all about sleep paralysis. Yeah.
1:58:28
1 hour, 58 minutes, 28 seconds
Well, I've experienced sleep paralysis a bunch of times. And have you really? Wow. Yeah. And it's that I've experienced the feeling of a
1:58:36
1 hour, 58 minutes, 36 seconds
presence in the room and it's usually in my experience it feels like an evil presence. There's something that's just like wrong that's like evil and it's not supposed to like be there.
1:58:46
1 hour, 58 minutes, 46 seconds
And I've also felt the old Hague phenomenon where it kind of it feels like there's a a weight on your chest like you can't move. It's holding you
1:58:54
1 hour, 58 minutes, 54 seconds
down like somebody's sitting on you and you can't get up but you're still semi-consciously aware of your environment. And during some of these
1:59:01
1 hour, 59 minutes, 1 second
sleep palace events, I've also uh had just some weird trippy like where I could hear people talking like in the
1:59:09
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house I was in and that got once and that's kind of what I had too. Yeah.
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Yeah. And that got integrated into a very vivid dream I was having in this half awake kind of state.
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It's it's trippy. I could see how you think it was aliens like if you you know didn't know any better. So, when you're having like a terrifying experience
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where you're like, "Oh, [snorts] are you just wake up, you're like, "No, this is sleep." Do you just critically think through your terrifying experience, Jeff, or how what what do you
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I that would just bother me even if I knew it was fake. I It would take me probably like hours to shake that.
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What What usually happens is like you're in this kind of halfwake, halfleep state for a while anyways, and that's where
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all this stuff is going on. And then eventually you you wake up more and you come to and you still kind of have like a like a overwhelming sense of like oh
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man what was that? It was like hangover me and but like you know I'm just I think yeah that was a crazy crazy dream.
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So crazy sleep paralysis kind of event. Uh but it's it's a weird experience.
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It's kind of it's trippy and it's it feels very real at the time like it feels I worked in a I worked in a mostly black
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college in Atlanta when I taught uh college in Atlanta and uh we talked a little bit about this as part of the psychology course but in in uh their
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culture they they call it being ridden by the devil. It's primarily like a black thing. They think about it as the devil who's climbed onto you at night
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time and is sitting on top of you. Um, yeah. Yeah.
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Like an evil presence that sits on top of there's a famous painting uh that's like like a little kind of devil goblin guy sitting on a chest of a lady uh
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going through sleep paralysis. Um but it's it's uh yeah it's it's crazy. It also happens a lot. People can have
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sleep paralysis more that are on pain medications.
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this a lot of my earlier experiences were when I was uh like on vicinive from a dental thing like after that like when I was a child when I would have this
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happen and so like there's there's medications you can be on that can cause you to have more sleep paralysis experiences as well
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I think particularly if you're coming off of opiates it also like uh you know there's a lot more experiences with sleep paralysis
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yeah just interesting that uh that for someone who you would think would have the knowledge base talking about Gary
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Nolan to be able to differentiate between something completely un completely normal or you know or not.
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But yeah, the problem is a lot of times it's these the really smart people that are more able to trick themselves because they're
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so confident that like they couldn't be wrong about this like that, you know, that they can think through it like that. They just they they calm
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themselves basically. Yeah, it's like a Jack Parson's thing where you're just like you're a rocket scientist and then you're also like I'm
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doing alchemy like a like almost like maybe god complex is too uh harsh for him but like almost yeah like you're
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you're you have supernatural capabilities that go beyond just your knowledge of of of just physics. You can
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do alchemy now. I I don't know what it is but it happens all the time. Um and maybe it's ego. I don't know. It's really interesting.
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Yeah.
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But it's certainly a pattern that keeps going and and it and it um perpetuates everything because then you're like that guy Gary Molton Gary
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Nolan he's an appeal to you know the appeal to authority he's he's a professor and he's top of his game and he's saving the world and also he says this so it must be right you know.
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Right. Right. I think George Hansen, the guy that wrote Trickster and the Paranormal, I think he had pointed out once that academics that enter this
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topic are actually more likely to get like trapped by like the woo and the nonsense and the French than like normal people that enter this topic. Whereas
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you might think like with their background they'd be better able to process like the bunk, they'd have better media literacy and critical thinking skills. It just does not seem
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to be the case when people enter the UFO topic.
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Yeah. Yeah. similar to John Mack who who as I said before he was a brilliant guy but he was almost completely wrong about
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UFOs in my opinion right um and and this thing with like Nolan like I'm not disputing he's probably a
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brilliant guy when it comes to his medical research stuff like I'm not saying he's not like as far as that but time and time again we've seen that just
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because somebody is like brilliant in one area doesn't mean they can't have obscure French beliefs you know like Lionus Pauline had a Nobel Prize and But
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he was a health wackadoo that believed all sorts of nonsense about like mega doses of vitamin C. So, you know, you can have an expertise in one thing.
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Yeah. And be a complete nut job in a completely different category.
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Or as Jim Mosley used to say about um we were talking about gosh, who was it? Um uh Stubble, I think we were talking
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about U. Anyway, point being it remains the same. He said, uh just because you're in the military, even if you're high ranked in the military, doesn't mean you can't believe in crazy things,
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right? You can't be crazy as hell. Um, Stubble was literally trying to walk through his wall, you know, and
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[laughter]
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yeah, I I guess like sometimes that's it. You could argue it might be required to push the boundaries of thinking. I think
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Heinik said that too where he he had his uh you know um accretionism fate magazine kind of beginning and then
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he's he cho I think he chose astronomy because he's like I want to see what the limits are to science. So, it's kind of like a like a genuine mix of like
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what is the bubble or the fringe and what comes after.
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Maybe it's that and and then I Yeah, even I even He wasn't as skeptical of a
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dude as people want you to like actually believe he was. Like everybody in UFOs, everybody loves the like the skeptic to
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believer arc. Like, oh my gosh, you convince the skeptical scientists that they're believer. But ultimately you find out these people like were not
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actually as skeptical as you were led to believe. Like they were always kind of uh in the same camp.
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Yeah. He was he was doing a a job to be a critical thinker. And uh as a scientist, yeah, you turn that on, but
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like I mean I'd love to go outside and see something weird like you know like hop in the car with Matt and go down to Jersey and
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check out some some There's nothing wrong and I we laugh about that but there's actually nothing wrong with that. I still look up in the sky. I'll see weird stuff. I don't know
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what I'm looking at, but it um I'm just I'm just not going to um string together a story and and try to
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make it all make sense like that. You know, that's a bridge too far for me.
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I'm okay with not knowing. I I spend a lot of time looking at the sky like on all my road trips like thousands of hours at hotspots, famous case
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locations, looking at the sky and and even to this day occasionally I'll see something that might initially like trick me up like what is going on? Like
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like I once spent like an hour chasing this light around like this rural middle of nowhere Nevada. Turned out it was a barn light on a tower.
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Oh wow. And it was like this weird parallax effect in the middle of the night like where I couldn't see like the tower and like I thought it was chasing
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me and you know and this was as a skeptical like UFO dude. So like even even experts even astronomers can be confused by like things they see in the
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sky because there's more than just that domain knowledge. There's all sorts of like perceptual and visual illusions and cognitive errors that like pop into play
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that like just because you're an astronomer doesn't mean you know all that kind of stuff for example.
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Yeah. I what I land on is like the fact that it's aloof and not overt tells you something too for most of the time,
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right? It just you're like it's so aloof and like you fleeting. It's like the little uh stuff that floats in your eyes as soon as you try and look at it. It
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goes away and you're like that's because it's just it's not it's always on the edge of reality, you know?
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Correct. Yeah. Exactly. It's it's a peripheral thing like it's when you see someone in the side of your you know eyesight you look and it's not there but
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you're like I swear to God someone was there you know that's what it feels like sometimes elus elusive and that should
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tell you something that it is that's not there something else
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yesterday with people of like a person corner of my eyesight and I thought it was a ghost till I realized it was the
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Amazon delivery guy that had [laughter] Uh well guys, I'm uh about to have to sign off here for the evening. So uh
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you got it. This was fun. Thanks for having us again. Yeah, thanks. You guys always welcome.
2:07:50
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Uh we'll do it again in two weeks. We'll do a we'll do a straightup panel next time around and then maybe the time after that have another special guest
2:07:57
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on. So uh some of you, if any of you guys know Larry Warren, who is uh who I've known for many years going back to my youth, he had offered he'd come on
2:08:04
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and could be an interesting one to see what he'd say about uh about Rendlessham these days. That's for sure. So, very cool.
2:08:11
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Rendle sham as I pronounced it. Yeah. Yeah.
2:08:16
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But yeah, glad always glad to have you guys. So, uh I'll put out another reminder and uh maybe we'll see you guys again in two weeks. It's always nice. Always fun.
2:08:23
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All right. Have a good night, guys.
2:08:25
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Catch you guys later. Bye.