Title: Psyched about UFOs panel discussion
Source video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhH27xe3l1M
Transcript supplied by UAPRAD in Dr tim videos up to 2608.docx

0:08
8 seconds
Hey, Craft. I don't know if you can hear me. I can. Hello.
0:13
13 seconds
Oh, all right. Good deal. I'm trying to uh connect the earpiece, but it's not quite working. So, I can look.
0:21
21 seconds
Oh, all right. Good deal. I'm trying to uh connect the earpiece, but it's not quite working. So, look. Oh, all right. Good deal.
0:30
30 seconds
There's a weird echo. Yeah, weird.
0:38
38 seconds
All right. Is that better? I closed out YouTube. I had it open in the background. I think that was All right.
0:49
49 seconds
I just realized uh we both had it open, so it was probably echoing both of our Yeah, that's probably what it was. Let's see. I'm just trying to see if I can
0:56
56 seconds
connect this earpiece. If not, I won't bother with it. But how you doing, man?
1:00
1 minute
Doing well. How are you? And I can hear you great. So, good deal. Doing all right. It's hot as hot as hell here today, though. It's
1:08
1 minute, 8 seconds
like 102. So, getting into the summer. Just the temperature here.
1:15
1 minute, 15 seconds
I don't even know. I've been inside all day. 84 so far. Oh, wow. There's a chat over here, too. Oh, 84. You're not doing too bad then.
1:23
1 minute, 23 seconds
Not bad at all.
1:25
1 minute, 25 seconds
Well, you are Arizona, is that? Yeah, there it's going to be going to be probably 115 in the near future. So,
1:32
1 minute, 32 seconds
yeah, slightly less hot over here than in the desert. Yeah. Yeah.
1:38
1 minute, 38 seconds
Let me see if uh if Tonyy's going to come on or not. He probably knows more about Streamyard than I do. This is like literally the second time I've logged
1:46
1 minute, 46 seconds
into it. So, my cat's going crazy over there. All right, give me one second. I'll be right back.
2:21
2 minutes, 21 seconds
All right, feed the cat. Hopefully that'll keep her quiet for a little while at least. I want to see if I can share the screen. I'm sure I can. Let's see.
2:38
2 minutes, 38 seconds
Oh, wait. There we go. I think
2:57
2 minutes, 57 seconds
All right.
3:03
3 minutes, 3 seconds
So, you should be seeing my Twitter feed right now. I think
3:08
3 minutes, 8 seconds
uh on stream I only see your face. I don't know that you Oh, let me see. Maybe hang on.
3:19
3 minutes, 19 seconds
See what YouTube looks like.
3:56
3 minutes, 56 seconds
Oh, there's Jeff. I'll add Jeff on here. You guys can Hey, Jeff. Let's see. Add.
4:04
4 minutes, 4 seconds
Hey, Jeff. How you doing, brother?
4:06
4 minutes, 6 seconds
Hello, man. Doing all right. I'm just messing around trying to uh get this working quite honestly. I mean, it's working so
4:14
4 minutes, 14 seconds
far, but I don't know much about using StreamYard. So, I think you guys or the the live stream I think can see my
4:23
4 minutes, 23 seconds
Twitter feed, which was what I was trying to pull up. Let's see. Hey, Jeff. Hey. No, it's just my face.
4:31
4 minutes, 31 seconds
Is there a YouTube link somewhere?
4:34
4 minutes, 34 seconds
Uh, yes. check my feed or hang on. Let me I can actually send it to you right now.
4:42
4 minutes, 42 seconds
I was hoping Tony's gonna come on because he's probably better at Okay. doing all this. I found it on your Twitter.
4:49
4 minutes, 49 seconds
You got it. Okay, good deal. Hoping Tony's gonna come on because he's probably better.
4:56
4 minutes, 56 seconds
My echo's back. All right. I was trying to see if I could pull up my uh Twitter feed. I wanted to pull up that uh post
5:04
5 minutes, 4 seconds
you had, Jeff, from uh [laughter] I've been on about this all day. The the the three little alien I'm going to call them aliens just because it's harder to
5:12
5 minutes, 12 seconds
to say entities repeatedly, but the three little entities that were um picking up their fallen comrade outside the bar. I thought that was Yeah, the crystalite case.
5:22
5 minutes, 22 seconds
Yeah. Yeah, that was Where is it? There it is.
5:41
5 minutes, 41 seconds
It's kind of shearing on. That's strange. Let's try this.
6:09
6 minutes, 9 seconds
There's Steve.
6:15
6 minutes, 15 seconds
Oh, we got four people. Hey, Steve. How you doing, man? Hey, what's up, guys? How's it going? Oh, doing all right. Doing all right.
6:22
6 minutes, 22 seconds
Just trying to get all this trying to get Streamyard to stream to uh share my share my screen, but doesn't seem to be working.
6:32
6 minutes, 32 seconds
Good little Are you um are you planning on like recording these and putting them out there, Tim?
6:38
6 minutes, 38 seconds
Yeah, you know, eventually. I haven't um I haven't figured much of that out yet, but that was kind of why I was going to jump on and just kind of play around
6:45
6 minutes, 45 seconds
with it and see. I'm assuming it automatically records, but it will be on YouTube anyways. Yeah, it'll it'll be on YouTube.
6:55
6 minutes, 55 seconds
Okay. Okay. Let me try one more time to stream uh share my screen. That was kind of essential to image.
7:05
7 minutes, 5 seconds
Yeah, I'm interested to see how it works out for you. I might use it myself in the future.
7:11
7 minutes, 11 seconds
Yeah, we used to use Streamyard for our show. Um, but they like raised the prices on it for
7:18
7 minutes, 18 seconds
stuff and it just got to be ridiculously expensive.
7:21
7 minutes, 21 seconds
Yeah, there were like five different plans you had to choose from. Let's see if this share my entire screen. Maybe that'll work better.
7:31
7 minutes, 31 seconds
What's that with the um with the sunset hour you were talking about, Jeff?
7:36
7 minutes, 36 seconds
We used to use Streamyard but like it went so went up so much in price to have like even just basic features that we we
7:43
7 minutes, 43 seconds
stopped using it. [snorts] Ah okay.
7:48
7 minutes, 48 seconds
Yeah. I think a lot a lot of people have have moved on from Streamyard because they've just like they've repeatedly kept like doubling the prices like just
7:56
7 minutes, 56 seconds
to even keep like the basic features around.
8:02
8 minutes, 2 seconds
It says Streamyard is sharing my screen, but I don't see anything except my face.
8:06
8 minutes, 6 seconds
So, yeah. And I not I noticed people have been having some issues with like lag and stuff in the free version.
8:19
8 minutes, 19 seconds
Weird. Are there good alternatives? Not really.
8:27
8 minutes, 27 seconds
[clears throat]
8:28
8 minutes, 28 seconds
Not that's free anyways. like like what we started what we started to do was we would just use Zoom and record it over
8:35
8 minutes, 35 seconds
Zoom and then upload it later after we edit it to YouTube but that wasn't live.
8:40
8 minutes, 40 seconds
So, some people will use a software called OBS, which is Open Broadcast Studio, and
8:48
8 minutes, 48 seconds
they'll do all the live streaming kind of like themselves, but again, like that's it's a much more complicated setup like that you have to get going.
8:55
8 minutes, 55 seconds
And it it tends to also have echo issues. When I've been on podcast with people that use OBS, like the the echo
9:02
9 minutes, 2 seconds
and the delay was so bad, it's almost unlistenable, too. So, there's some difficulties with it.
9:10
9 minutes, 10 seconds
So weird. I'm having no luck showing sharing my screen. That was like the one thing I wanted to make sure work today.
9:17
9 minutes, 17 seconds
It says it's sharing, but it doesn't actually. It's just showing my face. Oh, camera.
9:30
9 minutes, 30 seconds
Andreas, good to see you, man.
9:32
9 minutes, 32 seconds
Good to see you. We got a good little group here. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, off to a great start.
9:43
9 minutes, 43 seconds
All right. Can uh Hey, Jeff, are either Can any of you guys are you able to try the screen share option? Do you have that on your uh
9:52
9 minutes, 52 seconds
Yeah, I like Can you see my screen right now? No, I just see your face.
9:58
9 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah, that's because when you screen share, it's a separate window in the back room you have to put forward.
10:03
10 minutes, 3 seconds
Oh, okay.
10:11
10 minutes, 11 seconds
Share screen.
10:35
10 minutes, 35 seconds
I do this. Does having two monitors make a difference?
10:39
10 minutes, 39 seconds
Oh, wait, wait. I think I see it. There we go. Oh, I see Jeff what you're talking about. I got you now, man. Yeah.
10:46
10 minutes, 46 seconds
Yeah, I had to add a separate person to the screen. Yeah. Let's see.
10:54
10 minutes, 54 seconds
Yeah, I just really wanted to uh I was going to pull up the image of this little guy and [laughter] this was great. This is this is like
11:02
11 minutes, 2 seconds
what I love about UFOs, by the way. I'm I'm overly probably cynical and jaded and maybe overly skeptical even
11:10
11 minutes, 10 seconds
sometimes, but this this little thing with 1977, you got these this guy leaving the bar and and he finds outside
11:18
11 minutes, 18 seconds
what near the alley. What I mean, I didn't read all the details. I actually was going to save a little bit of it for for this conversation. It was like a back alley.
11:27
11 minutes, 27 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. And let's see.
11:32
11 minutes, 32 seconds
It's interesting that he's got the little uh astronaut looking helmet.
11:40
11 minutes, 40 seconds
Yeah, we don't need crazy stories from bar patrons anymore because we have uh government employees that are just filling that slot.
11:48
11 minutes, 48 seconds
[laughter]
11:49
11 minutes, 49 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
11:52
11 minutes, 52 seconds
Okay. Oh, well, this this case is it cool because we actually have primary source materials on it. We actually have like
12:00
12 minutes
the guy's like, you know, like letter that he wrote and these sketches are his own sketches of the case. So, it's not a third-hand story we're getting from other people.
12:10
12 minutes, 10 seconds
Yeah. And I didn't read the the letter the guy wrote to to High Neck, but I did see it. I had it on my just on my phone and I was going to pull it up here and
12:18
12 minutes, 18 seconds
it it sounded at least I mean like obviously he was fairly serious about this. It didn't sound like a, you know,
12:26
12 minutes, 26 seconds
a joke letter and immediately didn't sound like some kind of hoax thing. But
12:37
12 minutes, 37 seconds
what's interesting to me is just the depiction clearly whatever that looks like it like something that they would need to breathe in our atmosphere and
12:45
12 minutes, 45 seconds
just at least for that person just unconsciously or consciously clearly they need that to be in an our
12:52
12 minutes, 52 seconds
atmosphere compared to other experiencers where they're just completely helmetless.
13:00
13 minutes
Yeah, [clears throat] sure. The the uh the question of whether um alien entities could breathe on our
13:07
13 minutes, 7 seconds
in our atmosphere never seems to consistently be Yeah.
13:13
13 minutes, 13 seconds
And his letter does say he he reported it to the police anyways. So it he felt it was serious enough to uh call the cops. Hm.
13:25
13 minutes, 25 seconds
Can I just just an observation because I something you hear a lot is uh we should listen to experiencers and that's like
13:32
13 minutes, 32 seconds
how we're going to get true disclosure, how we're going to learn the truth. But this is a perfect example of where if you just listen to experiencers, you're
13:40
13 minutes, 40 seconds
never going to get uh an agreed upon answer. That's contradictory answers.
13:44
13 minutes, 44 seconds
It's it's a cluster And so like for example, if you want to get an answer to can they breathe in our atmosphere, this experiencer would
13:51
13 minutes, 51 seconds
probably suggest no. Um other people people's experiences would say yeah. And so without some means by with by which
13:59
13 minutes, 59 seconds
you can arbitrate between the two, you're left at square square one. Yeah. Yeah.
14:07
14 minutes, 7 seconds
probably um some creative create creativity in in regards to you know well they're they're not they're not biological entities or they're
14:16
14 minutes, 16 seconds
they're you know all that kind of kind of stuff but sure yeah it's uh I'm just reading his he indicates one of them
14:24
14 minutes, 24 seconds
seemed to be hurt was laying on the ground I mean of course to me the the funniest thing is he's he's leaving the bar and you find
14:32
14 minutes, 32 seconds
someone laid out outside a bar or near near a bar you know the the the the uh [laughter] we we could obviously speculate about what might be going on
14:40
14 minutes, 40 seconds
outside the bar while you have two or three entities tending to one fallen comrade. I don't know. Sorry, my cat's over here going crazy.
14:50
14 minutes, 50 seconds
Yeah, David was six or seven drinks of beer into his night apparently at at this point um as well. So he he had been
15:00
15 minutes
drinking and this is one of those cases that they call uh that they say has the Oz factor because he describes like the environment in which this case happened
15:08
15 minutes, 8 seconds
as being kind of really strange. He felt like he was in a vacuum and he couldn't hear any sounds like from around the the cars, the noises and the environment. He kind of felt like he was out of place.
15:18
15 minutes, 18 seconds
And so this is what Jenny Randles would call an Oz factor case as well.
15:23
15 minutes, 23 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that definitely stood out. Um, and that's always been certainly an interesting thing to me, that that aspect of it. I I
15:32
15 minutes, 32 seconds
wonder um, you know, how much of that is being drunk, right? Right. Right. Or being surprised
15:39
15 minutes, 39 seconds
or shocked or if you wanted to use the term traumatized. I don't know how often that's actually applying, you know, or in this case, but you know, how much of
15:47
15 minutes, 47 seconds
it is a psychological phenomenon as opposed to something that's being imposed or or anything like that by technology or something, right? I don't
15:55
15 minutes, 55 seconds
know. But that was certainly an interesting aspect to it.
15:59
15 minutes, 59 seconds
Jeeoff, this might be a good question for you, Bendy. Um, on the comments asked, "Why do you think so many people claim to see such alleged entities in
16:06
16 minutes, 6 seconds
black suits? [snorts] Um,
16:13
16 minutes, 13 seconds
I mean, I think just culturally, one, like we've always put people in suits that go on missions, like in space or
16:21
16 minutes, 21 seconds
underwater, whatever." And so we've seen that in movies and television and even sci-fi going back to the day and just in real life like that's what we've always
16:28
16 minutes, 28 seconds
done. So I think people have a a tendency to assume that they'd expect these beings to be kind of in like suits
16:36
16 minutes, 36 seconds
and uniforms of some kind like that. But yeah, I'm not sure exactly. But you know, somebody Yep.
16:46
16 minutes, 46 seconds
Do you happen to know if it's a cyclical thing that happens with um cases like these? like some decades they seem to reappear with suits and some others
16:54
16 minutes, 54 seconds
don't or is it just like mixed throughout history?
16:57
16 minutes, 57 seconds
Well, I think I mean these days there's there's not really a whole lot of humanoid kind of cases that you get reported like anymore. I mean to be
17:05
17 minutes, 5 seconds
honest, people don't even people still claim to be abducted, but you don't even hear about abduction cases that more.
17:11
17 minutes, 11 seconds
Back in the back in the days when these humanoids cases were really coming out um in the 60s and the 70s, it was pretty common uh that these entities were some
17:20
17 minutes, 20 seconds
kind of like coverall or suit of some kind. Either sometimes it was silver, sometimes it was just black. Um you know, sometimes it was other colors. Um and they didn't usually have helmets.
17:31
17 minutes, 31 seconds
Helmets is more rare. Uh not as many cases had the helmets like these guys did. But but the whole them wearing some kind of suit or coverall I think was
17:39
17 minutes, 39 seconds
pretty prominent in many of the cases uh that we got from the 60s and 70s.
17:45
17 minutes, 45 seconds
I think the aerial school kids sketch them with black suits as well, right?
17:50
17 minutes, 50 seconds
Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Which, you know, Gordon Reed has put put forward an idea hypothesis that it was traveling
17:59
17 minutes, 59 seconds
puppeteers. Um, and if you do look at some of the costumes that these people were wearing, these traveling puppeteers in South Africa at the time, they were
18:07
18 minutes, 7 seconds
they were they almost looked like aliens. They were large kind of like black kind of like robes with like spinly heads and arms and like you could
18:15
18 minutes, 15 seconds
from a distance you could think that was possibly an entity wearing a suit. Yeah.
18:21
18 minutes, 21 seconds
Yeah. I've always I I really appreciate Gideon's work. He's one of my favorite follows. I don't know how like I mean
18:28
18 minutes, 28 seconds
it's it's a good plaus possibility. I don't know how plausible that is as far as the you know the troop goes. He hasn't been able to find a troop that was in that area at the time at least.
18:39
18 minutes, 39 seconds
But um as far as like the black suits go, it's important to note that like only a couple of the kids noted that
18:46
18 minutes, 46 seconds
like skintight black suit, right? And um I agree with Jeff that like it was much more of a common trope back in say the
18:55
18 minutes, 55 seconds
60s and 70s um where it was also like commonly found in like um just the
19:01
19 minutes, 1 second
culture and like sci-fi uh novels and stuff and you know people were um scuba diving and stuff and it I just feel like
19:10
19 minutes, 10 seconds
it was part of like the culture up until the 70s for the most part.
19:16
19 minutes, 16 seconds
the the whole scuba thing is people have drawn reference to that before because a lot of these entity sightings people have said that they look almost like
19:24
19 minutes, 24 seconds
they're wearing scubier scuba uh diving gear and some sort of apparatus kind of like on their back. In fact, the the
19:31
19 minutes, 31 seconds
Emilson Poland case, um the they kind of had a hunchback and one of the theories is that it was actually uh Russian uh
19:39
19 minutes, 39 seconds
military people in scuba gear doing a a test or mission operation kind of uh practice or whatever uh in the region that they actually saw. And if you do
19:48
19 minutes, 48 seconds
look at people wearing some of these like scuba gears with some of the apparatuses on the black, they do look like black things which from a distance could look like a hump kind of on the
19:56
19 minutes, 56 seconds
back. Uh, a similar kind of case was the Lovelin frog case where you have these entities that kind of look like they have this hump kind of like on their
20:04
20 minutes, 4 seconds
back. Um, and so people have actually drawn specific connection to scuba gear.
20:09
20 minutes, 9 seconds
Um, and these entities outfits and what they wear.
20:13
20 minutes, 13 seconds
I like the uh the Mike swords, the professor of Mike Swords. I can always tell his uh his Sharpie work, you know, he's definitely
20:20
20 minutes, 20 seconds
Yes, the swords markers. Yeah, I always recognize that that handwriting. I can tell it's a swords came from swords collection.
20:29
20 minutes, 29 seconds
I remember um it's probably a decade ago now, but I interacted briefly with Mike Swords on his his website when he was
20:37
20 minutes, 37 seconds
doing the biggest study uh blog. He may still I guess it's still up, right? But uh we were conversing, you know, on the on the comments about something along,
20:45
20 minutes, 45 seconds
you know, similar to Entity Encounter or something. And I think I I asked him uh I can't remember how this came up, but I referred back to something Carla Turner
20:54
20 minutes, 54 seconds
had in one of her books. It was kind of reminiscent, you know, and I asked him, "What do you think about about this?" And he said, "I don't give her much much credence." Which which I found fair, but
21:03
21 minutes, 3 seconds
but you know, at some point it becomes how do you differentiate whose story deserves more credence than another? Is
21:10
21 minutes, 10 seconds
it just based on the absurdity of the claim or right? I mean, because Carla's stuff obvious, you know, as all of you
21:18
21 minutes, 18 seconds
guys, I'm sure, are familiar, had some of the most kind of extreme claims, I guess, of, you know, abductees seeing humans being ground up in meat grinders
21:27
21 minutes, 27 seconds
and and strange kind of things like that. Boogie.
21:32
21 minutes, 32 seconds
But is it really any more absurd than some of these other stories? You know, like a bunch of entities picking up their bunch of UFO guy UFO knots here
21:41
21 minutes, 41 seconds
picking up their drunk colleague off the ground to go back to space and drink more space booze. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.
21:48
21 minutes, 48 seconds
Was that the uh kind of implication of what had happened to that fallen one or does he actually go into what he believes was going on there?
21:57
21 minutes, 57 seconds
No, I just made that up. I I did see him say that he he thought it he it looked like it was injured and uh Yeah.
22:03
22 minutes, 3 seconds
Um that was kind of what I was curious too. Was is it just from the the way he tells the story, would you kind of assume the thing was they're picking up a drunk colleague or is that just me
22:12
22 minutes, 12 seconds
reading in? But obviously he's leaving the leaving the bar would leave one to think, you know, of the reasons you might see someone laid out outside a
22:19
22 minutes, 19 seconds
bar. Um but yeah, it's a fun story though, right? And you you also just can't help but wonder if there's just a
22:27
22 minutes, 27 seconds
a totally prosaic explanation here of that this guy was drunk. He encountered some other drunk people outside the bar uh that were helping one of their
22:35
22 minutes, 35 seconds
buddies off the ground. And you know this is the kind of story that he came up with in his head. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
22:43
22 minutes, 43 seconds
I guess like the tricky part is trying to understand why the misperception because obviously alcohol is not going to make you fully hallucinate stuff like
22:52
22 minutes, 52 seconds
this. So, were they wearing something generally weird or like how does an experience
22:59
22 minutes, 59 seconds
like that get translated in a person's mind into this? I have no idea.
23:05
23 minutes, 5 seconds
Here was a comment from BWP. I don't know if you guys follow him on Twitter.
23:09
23 minutes, 9 seconds
He had mentioned Tanner Bole had written an article about this uh suggesting that maybe there I don't know how much of this is a joke or not but suggesting
23:17
23 minutes, 17 seconds
that maybe someone had come to retrieve a uh evidence of a crime like a body from I need to find that article but that was an interesting perspective.
23:26
23 minutes, 26 seconds
Maybe you dress up like a spaceman to carry out uh clean up of your your prior mafia hit or something. I don't know.
23:34
23 minutes, 34 seconds
Well, and maybe there's not maybe there's not a misperception here. Maybe it was just a bunch of guys with some
23:41
23 minutes, 41 seconds
costumes on having fun like drinking out at night. Like I when I was younger, I used to sometimes dress up and go out and have fun with my buddies like and
23:50
23 minutes, 50 seconds
dress like a weirdo. So, you know, it could just been a bunch of goofballs, you know, dressed up like sci-fi for the night.
23:58
23 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah.
23:58
23 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah. That was the the first thing that I thought that or like maybe there were other substances involved too, like, you know, that we don't know of besides alcohol.
24:07
24 minutes, 7 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. That could could certainly certainly be Go ahead, Jeeoff.
24:13
24 minutes, 13 seconds
I just say he had recently lost his job or something and so he was out drinking and did he mention that? I didn't see did he did he say that?
24:21
24 minutes, 21 seconds
Uh yeah, it said it on one of the letters. Um
24:28
24 minutes, 28 seconds
yes, the the letter by um Braga uh Broga says he had recently been laid off and
24:36
24 minutes, 36 seconds
so he decided to go to a hotel to meet some old colleagues to talk about it.
24:41
24 minutes, 41 seconds
They spent several hours there drinking and drank approximately six or seven beers. [snorts] So where were his other friends though?
24:51
24 minutes, 51 seconds
You know, if he was with all these colleagues he was drinking with, where were they? How come nobody else saw this? Did he just leave by himself?
25:00
25 minutes
[clears throat]
25:04
25 minutes, 4 seconds
Say where the bar was. Crystal Lake. Is that right? Some hotel in Crystal Lake, Illinois.
25:12
25 minutes, 12 seconds
Yeah.
25:15
25 minutes, 15 seconds
Cool. Better that than running into Jason.
25:18
25 minutes, 18 seconds
[laughter]
25:20
25 minutes, 20 seconds
Yeah. Right. Crystal Lake. Yeah. Took me a second. Yeah, I gotcha.
25:24
25 minutes, 24 seconds
That's fun. Yeah, the uh of course I guess the it could could of course be
25:31
25 minutes, 31 seconds
literally almost anything, right? That that that happened there. And [clears throat] it's uh Okay. And this was his birthday, huh?
25:39
25 minutes, 39 seconds
Or the night of this guy's birthday. So he was out celebrating, I think, too. His birthday was June 13th.
25:45
25 minutes, 45 seconds
[clears throat] So no one else saw this outside of an an open establishment. Yeah.
25:56
25 minutes, 56 seconds
And then the story is is still around, you know, what 50 55 years later or whatever.
26:03
26 minutes, 3 seconds
It would be it'd be interesting to uh know what that guy said later if he was how however long he'd lived or if he by some chance were still alive now even.
26:10
26 minutes, 10 seconds
But was this to Heck, did you say earlier?
26:16
26 minutes, 16 seconds
Um yes, there was a letter to Heck in there. Yeah.
26:20
26 minutes, 20 seconds
Yeah. He handwritten letter to Heinik that he wrote. Y here it is. Do we have any records of
26:27
26 minutes, 27 seconds
what people like Heinneck thought of um cases like these either private entries or officially?
26:39
26 minutes, 39 seconds
I think it I think he was originally a little skeptical, but I think his views had kind of started to change on some of
26:48
26 minutes, 48 seconds
these occupant cases by this point in time to where he took them a little bit more seriously. Um, I think by the time he had Kufos and when he was obviously
26:56
26 minutes, 56 seconds
coming up with the whole close encounter schema of things, um, he had started to believe there was some seriousness to these cases that we should pay attention to them.
27:06
27 minutes, 6 seconds
But as far as like that's something that I've talked about before is that it would be it's a shame we don't have a lot of followup on these cases, you know, like
27:14
27 minutes, 14 seconds
going and looking at these guys decades later if they're still around and asking them, hey, what do you think about this now that it's been so many years? Uh, I
27:22
27 minutes, 22 seconds
think that would be really, really fascinating. Unfortunately, when I've tried to do it myself, when I've tried to track down some of these old people, a lot of times they'll either end up
27:30
27 minutes, 30 seconds
dead or I'll find prospective people on Facebook and I'll send them a message like, "Hey, I think you might have had UFO sighting. Can I ask you some questions?" And I never get a response
27:38
27 minutes, 38 seconds
back from them. But it would be nice to hear from some of these people. They were still around.
27:44
27 minutes, 44 seconds
You know, it would be also if you ever managed to get a hold of one of them um without showing them the original uh way
27:53
27 minutes, 53 seconds
that they reported the case, asking them to redescribe from their recollection the entire experience from scratch. So
28:00
28 minutes
you can kind of see the the degradation and the all the stuff that happens memory wise in the span of decades and
28:09
28 minutes, 9 seconds
then compare and contrast and maybe even they would be interested to see it see them side by side just to see how how memory drifts over time.
28:18
28 minutes, 18 seconds
Yeah, absolutely. That's that's what I would do. Like when I initially sent out these messages, I didn't really say anything more than like, "Are you the
28:26
28 minutes, 26 seconds
person that on this date might have had a UFO sighting in this location?" Um, and like there was a case here locally.
28:33
28 minutes, 33 seconds
I figured, hey, it's my town. Maybe I can track this person down. And the lady, the uh the main witness, the
28:39
28 minutes, 39 seconds
mother had died back in the 90s, but the children that she was with when they supposedly saw this were still around.
28:46
28 minutes, 46 seconds
And I, again, I messaged them on Facebook. I'm like, "Are you the same such and such that saw a UFO with their mother?" Uh, and again, I I I haven't
28:55
28 minutes, 55 seconds
got any responses, but if I do ever get a response, that is absolutely how I'll handle it. So, I can see what they remember now without being prompted with old information.
29:04
29 minutes, 4 seconds
Yeah, you you may you some of you guys may have heard um the interview that um the guy Martin Willis from Podcast UFO did
29:13
29 minutes, 13 seconds
with is it Cody that that witnessed the um the triangle or the pyramid UFO with the
29:20
29 minutes, 20 seconds
burns in Texas with uh I'm trying to remember their names. Cash Landram. Yeah.
29:26
29 minutes, 26 seconds
Yeah, there was a movie with him. This was maybe a decade ago orish now, but obviously the event had been 30, 40 years prior. But the kid could the kid
29:35
29 minutes, 35 seconds
could barely describe any anything that seemed to have occurred. He just used a couple of kind of terms of, you know, a fiery triangle or something he kept
29:43
29 minutes, 43 seconds
saying, but he didn't really seem to have much recollection um of it. Honestly, it was kind of interesting.
29:52
29 minutes, 52 seconds
How old was he when when it actually happened?
29:56
29 minutes, 56 seconds
He was like six or He was like really young. Say to somewhere in there. Yeah.
30:02
30 minutes, 2 seconds
Yeah. He was seven um years old. And it's interesting because initially um you know it's you're like he didn't even remember much about it or the shape
30:11
30 minutes, 11 seconds
and stuff. And initially they didn't remember the shape either. Like the shape gradually grew um from what was initially just a light in the sky. Um,
30:19
30 minutes, 19 seconds
and then eventually it became that Colby said it was triangle-shaped or um, diamond shaped. And even in um, like
30:27
30 minutes, 27 seconds
later interviews, the women said, you know, they didn't really see the shape, but that the seven-year-old boy saw it. Um, and it was just repeated after that.
30:36
30 minutes, 36 seconds
But yeah, they never saw a shape or anything beyond the light in the sky in the initial report. [clears throat] And this is the this is what happens with so so many cases though, right?
30:47
30 minutes, 47 seconds
Like if you look at like we were talking about this in book club yesterday uh with Jack Bar's book club about the Betty and Barney Hill case and how if
30:55
30 minutes, 55 seconds
you look at the letter that they initially sent Donald Kho within a week of the sighting. It's a it's a bit of a different story than what the public
31:03
31 minutes, 3 seconds
knows now as the Betty and Barney Hill case. There's no abduction or any of that stuff. That narrative wouldn't develop for, you know, a couple of years
31:10
31 minutes, 10 seconds
after they've had time to process it or whatnot. And when you actually that's why primary sources in this topic are so important because so many times when you
31:18
31 minutes, 18 seconds
look at the original reports they don't really match up with what you're being told in the UFO books or in the UFO documentaries that you later hear. That
31:27
31 minutes, 27 seconds
story has been cultivated by ufologists to be entertaining um for the masses and not necessarily reflect the truth of
31:34
31 minutes, 34 seconds
what really happened. If we uh correct me if for her was it nightmares that
31:41
31 minutes, 41 seconds
started happening afterwards um which she then went to a hypnotist to try to you know work on and is it after that
31:49
31 minutes, 49 seconds
hypnotic regression that the the story a variation of what we know today happened? I think that's generally generally it.
31:58
31 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah. Initially it was some dreams she was having which I think Ben Simon the psychiatrist eventually said he thought that she had shared with Barney even if
32:06
32 minutes, 6 seconds
inadvertently and that was maybe how they had gotten on somewhat of the same page even although even when you of course when you listen to um their
32:15
32 minutes, 15 seconds
accounts from hypnosis Barney was pretty much knocked out the whole time or whatever you want to call it. So uh he's already what would you call it? um kind
32:24
32 minutes, 24 seconds
of taken out his his agency is taken out of the story if you want to say that. So then you have, you know, Betty giving
32:31
32 minutes, 31 seconds
her perspective and Barney just kind of almost on the periphery, right? Yeah. That's essentially what what happened.
32:39
32 minutes, 39 seconds
She had been having dreams and whatnot that she had been sharing with Barney. a guy actually from the Air Force. I believe when they went to tell their
32:46
32 minutes, 46 seconds
story at the Unitarian Church or one of the very first meetings where they told their story to a group of audiences, there was a guy at the Air Force that actually recommended they go see a
32:55
32 minutes, 55 seconds
psychiatrist and go under hypnosis and then they went and saw Ben Simon, Benjamin Simon, and he put them under hypnosis. And like one of the things we
33:03
33 minutes, 3 seconds
were talking about how how his Benjamin Simon's own perspective on the case has been distorted over the years. people people have presented that he came to
33:12
33 minutes, 12 seconds
kind of believe that maybe they were abducted, but that was never his opinion on it. He'd always thought um that it
33:18
33 minutes, 18 seconds
was Betty's dreams and that Barney, she told the dreams to Barney so many times that Barney kind of took on the dreams for himself and then that's what came
33:26
33 minutes, 26 seconds
out like in the hypnosis. And that was always his view on the case from the beginning despite the fact that John Fuller in his book and other people don't really make it sound that way.
33:36
33 minutes, 36 seconds
Yeah. Yeah.
33:37
33 minutes, 37 seconds
Yeah. I mean, this guy had a stated position, right? And yet it didn't matter. Another version of what he allegedly said, believed, prescribed to.
33:47
33 minutes, 47 seconds
Um, and this just quickly made the rounds and just became the truth, right?
33:52
33 minutes, 52 seconds
Um, it's really wild how often that happens around here.
33:56
33 minutes, 56 seconds
Yeah. I mean, the from the the moment that she shares even the first nightmare with Barney, anything that happens in under regression is automatically
34:05
34 minutes, 5 seconds
already tainted and poisoned because whatever the unconscious expects to come up is is what's going to come up. And if
34:13
34 minutes, 13 seconds
if if you've already told the unconscious essentially what what happens in your dreams, that's what's what it's going to I hate to use the
34:20
34 minutes, 20 seconds
word, but it the unconscious sometimes lars under hypnosis. it just u does whatever expected of it or answers the way that you expect it to answer.
34:30
34 minutes, 30 seconds
Um and so if you've already got a story that you've kind of um seated it with, that's what you're going to get.
34:40
34 minutes, 40 seconds
And of course uh um Benjamin Simon here uh actually got a big chunk of the royalties for the book that Fuller did on the whole case.
34:49
34 minutes, 49 seconds
Really? I didn't know that. Huh.
34:51
34 minutes, 51 seconds
Yeah. a a significant chunk went to Fuller, the other chunk went to Benjamin Simon because and it makes sense. A large part of this book are just the transcripts of his hypnosis sessions.
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35 minutes, 1 second
Um, and then the other chunk went to uh Benny and Barty Hill. So, everybody made a decent profit putting this uh book out here.
35:10
35 minutes, 10 seconds
Are those just transcripts from from that case? Yeah. Oh, I might have to look that up then. Yeah.
35:17
35 minutes, 17 seconds
Yeah. Yeah, I'd be really curious to see how he does the does it uh discuss or have a transcript of the hypnotic inductions themselves or just what they say after the hypnosis?
35:28
35 minutes, 28 seconds
Um, it's a good question. I can't remember.
35:32
35 minutes, 32 seconds
Yeah, I can't. Uh, so like you are deeper and deeper asleep. Deep asleep. You will remember
35:41
35 minutes, 41 seconds
everything now and you will tell me everything. So stuff like that. Simon was very forceful. If you I saw a couple of clips of him working with veterans,
35:50
35 minutes, 50 seconds
and he was very um I don't want to say confrontational, but very controlling in regards to how he
35:59
35 minutes, 59 seconds
um this was I don't know if any of you guys read this, but this was David Halprin's book, Intimate Alien, which had some
36:06
36 minutes, 6 seconds
good stuff on uh Betty and Barney as a as a more of a psychosocial perspective.
36:12
36 minutes, 12 seconds
He goes a little bit into Barney's recollection that the aliens were testing his teeth or were trying to pull his dentures out or Betty's dentures
36:21
36 minutes, 21 seconds
out. I can't remember who had the dentures, but um related that back to practices that would occur during the slave trade
36:29
36 minutes, 29 seconds
sometimes when they would check teeth of of slaves and how Barney how. Anyway, very very interesting. Very interesting.
36:36
36 minutes, 36 seconds
I'd like to actually talk to David Halprin sometime. He he might be a good person to have on uh if we could ever get him on and have a conversation with him, you know.
36:46
36 minutes, 46 seconds
I'm sure he um would uh he's been on with a lot of people including um Jeff.
36:50
36 minutes, 50 seconds
I think you guys had interviewed him at one point, didn't you? Or was that the Invisible Night School?
36:54
36 minutes, 54 seconds
No, I think that was Invisible Night School.
36:57
36 minutes, 57 seconds
Yeah, Luis um interviewed him. A bunch of people have. He's great, man. I love David. Yeah. Yeah. Something you just mentioned about it.
37:06
37 minutes, 6 seconds
It sounded controlling. So um at least in the 70s that's how most hypnosis was done. It's called directive hypnosis
37:13
37 minutes, 13 seconds
until Ericson came along and and the school called more permissive style hypnosis came along but that directive
37:20
37 minutes, 20 seconds
hypnosis comes from David Elman and stage hypnosis where you you tell the person what you want to do.
37:26
37 minutes, 26 seconds
Obviously for stage hypnosis that's fine but from a hypnotherapy point of view you don't want to be barking commands obviously not very therapeutic. Um, so
37:36
37 minutes, 36 seconds
what the the way that he was telling them you will do this, you will do this that that tracks with how hypnosis was done back then.
37:47
37 minutes, 47 seconds
There was a clip of him that I had previously. I don't know if I could find it now, but he was in u some old military documentary where they were
37:55
37 minutes, 55 seconds
showing guys recovering from what they were calling shell shock at the time.
38:00
38 minutes
Um, but it showed him [clears throat] doing some hypnosis with a This is another good book that people
38:09
38 minutes, 9 seconds
should uh if they want to know about Betty Barney Hill, the encounter at Indian Head, the Betty and Barney Hill UFO abduction we visited by Carl Flock and Peter Brooksmith.
38:19
38 minutes, 19 seconds
The conference that I believe Fermage paid for uh to look at the Betty and Barney Hill case. So, it's got like papers by all sorts of uh people in here
38:28
38 minutes, 28 seconds
like Martin Cottomire and Peter Brooks Smith and Thomas Bolard, Marcelot Trusy, Dennis Stacy, Robert Schaefer, Walter
38:36
38 minutes, 36 seconds
Webb. So, it's a a great collection of papers from that conference. Uh it's kind of a must readad if you're interested in help.
38:46
38 minutes, 46 seconds
See if I can silence [clears throat] this. I think this is the clip, but I'm see if I can cut the audio off so I'm not Oh, maybe not. Oh, there it is.
38:54
38 minutes, 54 seconds
Uh Jeff, if would you be willing to uh type up the names of any books that you mentioned that you recommend like either
39:02
39 minutes, 2 seconds
in a comment or somewhere so that I can check them out later?
39:05
39 minutes, 5 seconds
Yeah, this is also Alien Abductions by Terry Mat creating a modern phenomenon focusing on
39:13
39 minutes, 13 seconds
the popular works of Bud Hopkins, John Fuller, Whitley Steird, David Jacobs, and John Mack.
39:19
39 minutes, 19 seconds
It's another kind of guys. Is this now I had I had looked this up previously and I came to understand this actually was Ben Simon I think right doing this the guy in the uniform
39:27
39 minutes, 27 seconds
I believe so I believe so um we can then yeah maybe I'm wrong but I want to say
39:36
39 minutes, 36 seconds
all right now walk out here walk over to the nurse all by yourself hopefully they don't kill our YouTube here already with me copy [clears throat] you know copyright
39:44
39 minutes, 44 seconds
strikes or anything is from 1946 so That's the medicine. Now come back to me.
39:51
39 minutes, 51 seconds
Come back to me. Open your eyes. That's the boy. Is that fine? Isn't that wonderful? Sure. All right. Now again, once more.
39:59
39 minutes, 59 seconds
Yeah. How long will that be?
40:00
40 minutes
Oh, it's going to stay that way. It's going to stay because that's taking care of your worry now. All right. Now, come on back to me and I'm going to let you
40:08
40 minutes, 8 seconds
go to sleep. When you wake up, you'll keep on walking perfectly well. How about it? Thanks, sir. Right.
40:15
40 minutes, 15 seconds
All right. Now, let's get up in here and go to sleep.
40:20
40 minutes, 20 seconds
Now, there you are. Now, I'm going to have you go right to sleep. When you wake up, it'll be all right. Thanks. All right. Sleep, Gerard.
40:27
40 minutes, 27 seconds
The fact that he can walk now does not mean that his neurosis has been cured.
40:32
40 minutes, 32 seconds
That would require time, but the way has been opened for the therapy to follow.
40:39
40 minutes, 39 seconds
Yeah, I'll have to double check that, but I want I I did look that up before and I I do recall. I think that was actually Simon doing that. Um,
40:48
40 minutes, 48 seconds
now you guys actually being mental health professionals probably know this more than I do, but wasn't Simon really kind of one of the early promoters of
40:57
40 minutes, 57 seconds
using hypnosis for trauma. People that have suffered from trauma and PTSD and whatnot.
41:04
41 minutes, 4 seconds
Yeah. Back then they would have called it shell shock. I know Freud did what he called hysteria. That was the other name for PTSD,
41:11
41 minutes, 11 seconds
right? Um because I know Simon was in the newspapers and in the news and on TV like doing demonstrations of like like
41:19
41 minutes, 19 seconds
his using hypnosis to help people with trauma. Like so I think at least had a pretty prominent public figure at the time like promoting the use of hypnosis.
41:28
41 minutes, 28 seconds
I think I think you know especially in regards to post-war stuff for for for that you know again that quote unquote shell shock recovery I think he was big
41:36
41 minutes, 36 seconds
in terms of kind of bringing it into a science medical model you know um perspective but still
41:44
41 minutes, 44 seconds
I I want to jump in sometime when you guys do the reading group too Jeeoff I keep forgetting what days you do it on but that would be fun to Yeah it's Wednesday Jack has a
41:53
41 minutes, 53 seconds
Wednesdays at 6 o'clock Wednesdays okay Yeah.
41:58
41 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah. Wayward Wednesdays should definitely come in. You'd be a great uh great addition.
42:04
42 minutes, 4 seconds
There was also um a cool paper that was written back in I think it was 2008 about um the Betty and Barney Hill
42:12
42 minutes, 12 seconds
thing. was called was it alienated histories by um David Ddale and uh he
42:20
42 minutes, 20 seconds
talks about like the racial aspects of the case um and like the overall um like
42:27
42 minutes, 27 seconds
theme of of race being a concern in alien abduction genres in general.
42:32
42 minutes, 32 seconds
But um it was another interesting I think take on the case.
42:37
42 minutes, 37 seconds
I do remember that that paper. Um he wrote a paper in 2008. Yeah.
42:43
42 minutes, 43 seconds
Raciology of missing time and the interrupted journey. Yeah. Yeah. There you go.
42:48
42 minutes, 48 seconds
And David Hoppern in the book that uh Tim recommended talks about that quite a bit. At least a Yian kind of interpretation of of of the abduction
42:56
42 minutes, 56 seconds
experience through the lens of you know racial politics back then.
43:01
43 minutes, 1 second
So does the guy named Christopher Roth um is like an anthropologist. He has a paper uh UFOs as anthropology, race,
43:08
43 minutes, 8 seconds
extraterrestrials, and the oult and he's kind of addressed that that topic quite a bit. There's [snorts] also another while we're on it. Um Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Jeff.
43:17
43 minutes, 17 seconds
I was just going to say there's another paper that was published uh in recent years that compares alien abduction narratives to the uh slave narratives,
43:25
43 minutes, 25 seconds
transatlantic slave narratives. Um that's kind of interesting. Uh, I think that paper's called Alienation and Aliens, a comparative study of narratives.
43:36
43 minutes, 36 seconds
I wonder I have to check that one out. I don't think I'm familiar with it. But, uh, also be remiss if we didn't mention Charlie Wiser's excellent blog um, the $3 kit um, where she looks at the case.
43:47
43 minutes, 47 seconds
I thought she did a great job of um piecing a lot of the evidence together and uh noting that there was a you know observation
43:55
43 minutes, 55 seconds
um building or whatever on top of uh one of the mountains that they were driving past that was you know short squat round
44:03
44 minutes, 3 seconds
pancake shape that would have had people walking in it and it would have been lit up you know at night. So um just another possibility for some of the things they
44:11
44 minutes, 11 seconds
could have seen that night. I remember um Stan Freriedman once told me that and I and I did read this later. I don't remember many of the details, but that
44:19
44 minutes, 19 seconds
there was some some sort of radar return that was it was supposedly could be if you were generous correlated with with
44:27
44 minutes, 27 seconds
with that evening. I I don't know what you know.
44:30
44 minutes, 30 seconds
Yeah, there from Peace Air Force Base I believe some point in that evening. But again, like that's the problem with
44:38
44 minutes, 38 seconds
tying like you have an event and then you try and find other things is that like is there really any reason to connect this event to this event or you
44:45
44 minutes, 45 seconds
just kind of like put them together because they kind of vaguely, you know, go around each other.
44:52
44 minutes, 52 seconds
Yeah, it's funny because those um claims of radar evidence are like still today so prevalent, but they were part of like
44:59
44 minutes, 59 seconds
every case eventually whether it be Rendlesshum or Cash Land or this one.
45:04
45 minutes, 4 seconds
Like there was always claims of alleged radar evidence which of course never ever materialized. Yeah.
45:11
45 minutes, 11 seconds
I think it's called the Texas sharpshooter fallacy where you kind of already know the bullseye and then um or [snorts] you know where they landed and
45:18
45 minutes, 18 seconds
then you sketch out the bullseye around where the knives already kind of landed like you just look for any evidence after the fact. Any any association
45:26
45 minutes, 26 seconds
could be made to fit. Um, this this is essentially what I think uh like Robert Pal and Muon and whatnot did with the
45:35
45 minutes, 35 seconds
Stevenville, Texas case where people recall this is a case where people made a big deal because George Bush has a ranch in the area or something and there
45:44
45 minutes, 44 seconds
was a UFO and there was F16s or whatever chasing after the UFO and so MUN went
45:51
45 minutes, 51 seconds
after the radar information for the area and so they got back like a CD with literally millions of just spurious ious radar targets and they go in there and
46:00
46 minutes
they handpicked the ones that they think fit along the match of where the UFO was and use that as confirmation. But it's like, but you just ignored the other two
46:08
46 minutes, 8 seconds
million that are all around the area that you didn't pick out either. Like you just picked a trail where you expected one to be and called it good
46:16
46 minutes, 16 seconds
and act like that was confirmation. But no, that's you're literally you already had a conclusion and you're just picking the data that you needed to match your pre-existing bias.
46:26
46 minutes, 26 seconds
I guess Obama's coming out with a he's producing, right, a Netflix movie or documentary about the Betty Barney Hill
46:33
46 minutes, 33 seconds
thing, which will be kind of interesting to see how much is that still happening? It's been kind of in the works for years.
46:41
46 minutes, 41 seconds
Yeah, I haven't heard anything in the last couple years about it, but I don't know.
46:47
46 minutes, 47 seconds
I just heard it come up again when um Disclosure Day came out. I Yeah, speaking of I haven't haven't seen it
46:53
46 minutes, 53 seconds
yet. not not too too big on it, but Well, and there's that movie there's that movie or TV show coming out based
47:00
47 minutes
on uh Toby Ball's uh you know uh podcast on abductions with Demi Moore in it and uh I think that Coleman Domingo guy maybe.
47:11
47 minutes, 11 seconds
Yeah.
47:12
47 minutes, 12 seconds
Yeah. I don't know how that's going to pan out, but I was a huge fan of Toby Ball's um podcast Strange Rivals. One of the best ever.
47:19
47 minutes, 19 seconds
Yeah, Strange Rivals is what the movie I guess is going to be called, too. I was on Strange Rivals. He interviewed me as a brief Yeah. The name of the podcast is familiar at least. Yeah.
47:30
47 minutes, 30 seconds
Let's see. Well, you guys have other stuff you want to any kind of topics you want to hit and
47:37
47 minutes, 37 seconds
go for a little while. I don't really I didn't really have any too much of a plan. Um, so I I was working all day, so I I have
47:45
47 minutes, 45 seconds
no idea what came out in the the release today. Was there anything new at all at the very least?
47:55
47 minutes, 55 seconds
So, of course, I have already taken the opportunity to go through every single page of every PDF that they put out there today um because I had nothing else to do.
48:04
48 minutes, 4 seconds
I believe and so as far as like the document portion goes, again, it was a lot of it was old stuff we already had. There was
48:13
48 minutes, 13 seconds
a couple of files from the FBI that contained um UFO sightings from Washington State that they had gotten over a period of years that I haven't
48:21
48 minutes, 21 seconds
seen before. There was also a file from their Newark uh New Jersey office of again some sightings over a period of years that they got reported there. Um
48:30
48 minutes, 30 seconds
by and large though, it's kind of similar to uh the previous releases, documents that we've largely seen before. Um, perhaps they're different
48:38
48 minutes, 38 seconds
kind of copies of the same documents we've seen before or with slight redaction removed or something, but for the most part there really wasn't
48:46
48 minutes, 46 seconds
anything in this new drop. All the video files were, I guess, essentially from the same guy, one guy that constantly
48:53
48 minutes, 53 seconds
believes he's seen orbs, you know, around where he lives. um that the FBI found, as Mick West pointed out, the FBI found credible, but these sightings were
49:01
49 minutes, 1 second
already debunked and released over a year ago and they were like, you know, planes, Venus, etc., ISS, nothing really, you know, remarkable. So, it
49:10
49 minutes, 10 seconds
seems like this release they kind of were just scraping at the bottom of the barrel of what kind of like garbage they could dig up that they still had that
49:18
49 minutes, 18 seconds
they could uh put out this week. Now, was it you who posted on um on X a 1953 document that's still classified?
49:30
49 minutes, 30 seconds
Um did you post that, Jeff? Which document?
49:36
49 minutes, 36 seconds
So, there was I I think it was you. I'm not sure. Um so, there was 1953 document and the caption was something along the lines of I can't imagine what.
49:47
49 minutes, 47 seconds
Yes. So that was um that was actually from the they put out a copy of the Robinson's panel report again in this new release which again we've already
49:54
49 minutes, 54 seconds
had. But there was like a couple pages in that PDF that had like a big orange or pink sheet or whatever that said this
50:01
50 minutes, 1 second
page this has been removed uh for you know whatever private security reasons or whatever and it's being held in this CIA file box somewhere. And it's just
50:10
50 minutes, 10 seconds
it's it's insane to me that a document that's over 70 years old now that has to do with UFOs has any pages that they
50:17
50 minutes, 17 seconds
need to redact or remove um from the file at this point.
50:24
50 minutes, 24 seconds
What do you suspect that the uh I think I asked John Greenwell this once. I don't think I ever got a response, but I um it was something along the lines of
50:32
50 minutes, 32 seconds
what is the oldest document that you know of that is still classified.
50:36
50 minutes, 36 seconds
Um well, I mean they they still they still remove names of like officers and people
50:46
50 minutes, 46 seconds
like you know from these files like even if they're 70 or 80 years old. I mean I I personally can't imagine a reason for it. they're long dead. But I guess when
50:55
50 minutes, 55 seconds
it comes to certain cases like the CIA, for example, uh or even like the FBI, they'll still keep those people's names
51:03
51 minutes, 3 seconds
private even if they're dead. Like unless, for example, sometimes if you can provide them with like a death certificate or proof that that person is
51:11
51 minutes, 11 seconds
dead, then they'll go back and do a a mandatory reclassification review and release more information. But a lot of
51:18
51 minutes, 18 seconds
these times people these f FIA requests it's not like they're out there checking to see if people are dead or are not dead and so they'll air on the side of
51:25
51 minutes, 25 seconds
safety and still just censor stuff out that really doesn't need to be censored out.
51:31
51 minutes, 31 seconds
So that would explain some redactions, right? Would it would that typically sometimes also include an entire document itself being classified or just redactions?
51:42
51 minutes, 42 seconds
Um I mean if the document itself contains so much stuff that it would be so heavily redacted that there's no
51:49
51 minutes, 49 seconds
point putting it out. But then you have documents like the disclosure foundation recently released a foyer response they got back that was back in the n late
51:58
51 minutes, 58 seconds
1970s early 80s an organization called cost citizens against UFO secrecy was filing foyer lawsuits against the NSA
52:07
52 minutes, 7 seconds
the CIA you know the DIA trying to get documents out of them. So, the Disclover Foundation put in a request to see if they could get some of those files
52:15
52 minutes, 15 seconds
re-released again, like with less redactions. And if you actually look at the files that they've uploaded to their website, it's just like whole pages
52:22
52 minutes, 22 seconds
blocked out. Like there's almost nothing in this doc. It's like 300 pages of almost nothing because like just the whole pages are just big blocks just
52:30
52 minutes, 30 seconds
like gone. And I personally can't see the reason for that, but the government apparently does.
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52 minutes, 40 seconds
Yeah, some of the stuff they they're dropping out is is just Sorry, I'm kind of straying a little bit away from the the the old the question
52:48
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about the oldest, but just some of the crap they're dropping is just so it's obviously unvetted and they've made no attempt to try to figure out in some
52:57
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cases, you know, they didn't seem to even care to try to figure out what it was. Just wanted to drop the drop it into a batch of files, right?
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or even care enough to to drop it in a way that people could sort through it. Um it was just just like here blang.
53:15
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Yeah. Well, you know, all these files, these files that are being released is all it's all comes from that 2024 NDAA
53:23
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that was signed back in December 2023 that basically mandated all these government organizations to go dig
53:30
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through all their archives, find all the UFO stuff, and forward it on to the National Archives uh in uh Washington DC
53:37
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so it can be processed for release. Most of the stuff that has been released over these last couple of trenches was actually approved for release last year.
53:46
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And it was supposed to be uploaded to the website, the NAR website over a year ago. But for whatever reason, the Trump administration has decided to hold these
53:56
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files back instead of putting them on NAR. And the same files that were already going to be released with or without Trump saying anything have now
54:03
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just gone up on the war.gov website. But they're essentially just unprocessed collections of files that these organizations have dumped over to NAR.
54:12
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Like there's no like it's not like a curated collection of high quality sightings or information. It's basically just the same stuff we've already had for the last, you know, 80 years.
54:23
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And he's taking credit for it now. Yeah.
54:27
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Yeah. Do you suspect there is better stuff? Because that's obviously the the immediate conspiratorial move. It's well
54:34
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they're they're holding the good stuff behind closed doors. I mean it's just as plausible in my mind that this is as
54:42
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good as they have. Obviously they have better sensor data um better videos possibly of you know um Chinese
54:49
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aircraft. But I suspect the obvious reason is this is what you get when there's no reality to the phenomena. Do you think that they are holding on to
54:58
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anything interesting behind the scenes? I I personally I do not. And and I think there's good reason to believe that
55:06
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they're not because if we look at it, if we look at what these politicians have told us about the stuff that they've seen that they've said was like groundbreaking, earth shattering. I can't sleep at night. It made me cry.
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And then we get the actual videos of the crap that they've seen and it's not earthshattering. It's prosaic. It's uninteresting. It's a blurry blob. And
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so if the stuff we've been getting that we know we've been getting is the same kind of stuff that has been making politicians be like, "Oh, wow. There's something to this." Then I highly doubt
55:34
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there's anything better, you know, to see out there. Like for example, the release two files that we got uh contained a bunch of video files that
55:42
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was part of 46 files that Luna and Burchett and the the UFO circus had requested from the government. And that's what we got in release two.
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Those are the really good ones, I think.
55:53
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Right. Yeah, those are supposed to be the really good ones. A lot of the ones that Corbel had been keeping secret buried in the desert or whatever on a
56:00
56 minutes
thumb drive like the ones that like if we saw we'd be amazed like and we got the videos and they're not amazing. So
56:08
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yeah, I highly doubt there's really as you point out the government, you know, isn't the most transparent. They probably got all sorts of stuff like
56:16
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much more fancy sensor data, stuff like that. But I don't think it shows shows aliens and I don't think they have better like fancier videos of showing
56:24
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UFOs like in 4K doing 90 degree turns with triangulated radar data. Like I just I don't think that exists. I think
56:32
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we're finding out that the best of the best is the slop that we're getting.
56:36
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I'm going to pull up on the in the background here on the screen. This is um a video from Golf Breeze that Bruce Morrison took back in 1992
56:46
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uh I think it was. This is kind of what I saw. Uh it was the Gulf Breeze red light which to me looked and I think
56:53
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even in the the video to me it always looked like uh some kind of flare or pyrochnic or or something just for the way that it you know increased and
57:01
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decreased in brightness and you'd see stuff occasionally dropping off of it like something was melting or burning or
57:09
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um yeah I'm just kind of surfing surfing Twitter in the background that that popped up. But were you there for for this specific
57:16
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Not that one. No, it was a year or two later. I was there for a similar thing. But but uh not that one. Yeah.
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Jeeoff, do you think that uh these politicians when they claim that their minds were blown, what is really happening is the priming that is done
57:33
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before they see the video, there's a story that typically goes with a video of this is what you're going to see in this video. And that kind of sets the template for how they interpret what
57:41
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they're looking at. And that feels far more amazing than without the primate.
57:49
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Yeah. Yeah. I think um I think first of all we have to remember our people in Congress are not the brightest tools in
57:57
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the shed or the sharpest tools in the shed. Um and there absolutely is that priming. Take for example the video that
58:04
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supposedly was a a UFO being shot into by a missile and it was a balloon, but
58:12
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the whole narrative around it was that there was this unidentified object and a a fighter jet shot it with the missile and it bounced off and you know went in
58:21
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two different ways or whatever and they thought that video was amazing but you know that video was not amazing. It was just a balloon being shot by uh by a
58:30
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missile. So I think there's a lot of priming going on and also again with the fact that uh they're just uh our people
58:37
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in Congress particularly the people on this topic are not the most like critical skeptical intelligent individuals in the first place and are
58:45
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easily moved by you know not very good evidence and a good story.
58:50
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I think they're also um hyping it and selling it and sensationalizing it. You know what I mean?
58:58
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I think there's a bit of both. There's there's them obviously taking advantage of it for political reasons um because it gives them a lot of traction. A lot
59:06
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of these UFO Congress people, quite frankly, you wouldn't really know who they are if they didn't have this whole UFO thing going on. Their whole
59:14
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reason they're in mainstream media all the time is because they're talking about UFOs and conspiracy theories.
59:19
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So, I think there's a little bit of both. They're definitely playing on it for their own benefit. Um but I think there's also an element that they can
59:26
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also just be credulous um believers in their own sense.
59:31
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Yeah. Real quick, I had um reposted something the other day from uh Alex on Twitter and he was just posting the publicly available stats for uh the
59:40
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representatives and Berles for instance 70% of his campaign donations have come from out of state mainly like 50 to 75.
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Um, and he made the good point that like, you know, most people wouldn't wouldn't even know who he is if it weren't for this topic. And the minute
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he says, you know, wait a minute, it's all Or, well, I don't know. As soon as he takes off the gas, like the gravy train comes to an end, you know,
1:00:07
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and a lot of these people, it's the same thing. I mean, Luna is a little more out there, but like who would know of Tim Burchchett if it wasn't for this topic, right?
1:00:16
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You know, I actually looked up Burchchett because I had a similar question. And I'm like, I only know about him from UFOs. I'm like, how do people know about
1:00:23
1 hour, 23 seconds
Burchchett if it's not from UFOs? And I guess there I guess his initial claim to fame was him voting with Democrats
1:00:30
1 hour, 30 seconds
against Republicans on something like years ago. And so he was a member of like six Republicans that voted on the other side about something. And so like
1:00:38
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that that got him a lot of mainstream media attention at that time period. But I had never heard of that. Um, and certainly in recent years, it's it's not
1:00:47
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because of that. It's all because of his interest.
1:00:49
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Was it the uh Matt Gates kind of scandal and Yeah, it was the Gates. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:00:57
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And was it uh Burchette? I didn't know this. I think it was Matt in the in the chat actually that had mentioned that um that Burchett's been in government since
1:01:04
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his like mid20s, right? He's this is basically the only job he's ever had as a career politician. Yet he complains how he doesn't trust the government.
1:01:11
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Well, neither do I. You're part of the largely part of the reason, right?
1:01:15
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Um, well, like I think Berles, like Burles, I guess, is younger than I thought he
1:01:22
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was. Um, uh, I think like I'm as old as Berles is. Uh, but like his his entire
1:01:29
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career, uh, is was like he he claims he was a software developer, but this was like early 2000s. I think that basically
1:01:36
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means you did HTML um, on websites or your internal tech support. Um, so like he was a low-level tech guy and then he joined Congress.
1:01:46
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I would have never guessed her the same age at all. Yeah.
1:01:52
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Wait, so like me and Berles are the same age? That's wild. [laughter] Yeah, I guess he's a he's a few years older
1:02:00
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than me, but he's not like I thought he was older than he was, but yeah, he's 49, so he's a he's a few years older than me. Yeah, he's got a decade on me.
1:02:08
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Yeah.
1:02:10
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Damn. Oh, but yeah, like absolutely these people are are exploiting the platform that that it gives them, right? The front and
1:02:17
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center seats that they get for these these hearings, which you know aren't really a big deal uh in Washington.
1:02:24
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They're certainly a big deal to a small subset. And I don't know, just like I think about the the show The Tiger King and Carol Baskin and the laws that she
1:02:33
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could get passed and and the um things that she could get done in Congress when she had 20,000 signatures behind her name, right? That's just 20,000
1:02:42
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signatures. I mean, there you could easily get thousands, hundreds of thousands of people on a on a UFO,
1:02:50
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you know, platform paying attention, retweeting. I'm just saying that like the audience out there is really large.
1:02:56
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um nothing to sneeze at. And then somebody maybe one of you guys even had mentioned previously that it's one of those things where there's not really much of a drawback in in terms of
1:03:04
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there's not really a counter side to I mean how many of us other than maybe what a dozen people in the planet are
1:03:11
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are heavily interested in in something that they don't think is a a huge issue in the same right I mean there's there's
1:03:19
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nobody that's going to um push back skepticism is not really politically organized in any any way.
1:03:26
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Yeah. you know.
1:03:28
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Yeah. Even for the wider public, like there's every reason um to lean into or
1:03:35
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embrace like the sensationalism and the mystery and like almost every reason not to, you know? Yeah.
1:03:43
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Yeah. In this political climate, being into batshit crazy conspiracy theories isn't problematic for your political
1:03:50
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trajectory or career. In fact, if anything, it probably gets you more attention. And it's good for you to believe in wacky conspiracy theories. I
1:03:58
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mean, our whole administration is based on wacky conspiracy theories. [laughter] Yeah.
1:04:04
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I did want to ask about the um what was it Wednesday the uh what did they call it when they had the uh press conference or
1:04:13
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Yeah. So what you guys thought about that and also so when I looked at the the document that uh brush recommended
1:04:20
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people look at from Australia it's from reading it my impression was that there's two sources of information that document relies on one number one
1:04:28
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official uh US government um documents and and releases um and
1:04:36
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then the other one was some mysterious database by Valet and I think it was Hinek Um,
1:04:44
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I don't understand what it is that Grush claims is of interest such that people should look at that document. I'm curious what Jeff or you guys think. Is
1:04:53
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there something that I'm missing from there?
1:04:56
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Well, no. [snorts] I mean, that document was by a guy named Harry Turner who was quite literally like a lot of these guys
1:05:04
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just a UFO enthusiast that just happened to work for the government. And it goes back way before that document. Back in
1:05:12
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1954, he tried to get the Australian government to like kind of start up UFO investigations based on a review he did a Donald Kho's book that he wrote up a
1:05:21
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thing for. That was like his initial uh kind of report and you know they they denied it. They came back like yeah nah
1:05:28
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we don't think this is worth our time and we're not sure we find you know Kio stuff all that credible. Uh and so again
1:05:36
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to get 20 years later he writes this other document which again is just based on publicly sourced information. Um you
1:05:42
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know UFO books. Oh crap I'm bleeding all over the place. Um uh public source UFO books and it's just
1:05:50
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it's it's it's kind of uh somebody else pointed out it's kind of similar to like the Paul Helier thing in Canada, right?
1:05:57
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like where you're just playing up on people's credentials like like this guy was a big nuclear scientist for the Australian government. There's something to this but when you dig into it he was
1:06:06
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just a UFO enthusiast using publicly sourced documents and information to come up with what he believed and he wrote this kind of report on it and it's
1:06:15
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it's an old report that's been out for a long time. It's been talked about and written about for decades like it's not particularly new um information. Um, do
1:06:25
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you think corrupt I didn't even read the um read the thing you referenced, but you mentioned the I think the valet database. People are
1:06:33
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always going on about wanting that that database which is my understanding it's just a conglomeration of other crappy databases which which were probably not really thoroughly vetted or researched.
1:06:43
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So now you've got a bigger pool of of you know data that's not for some reason people are fascinated by
1:06:50
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and I was you know 20 years ago as well like if we get more data we could do some statistical analyses or but I mean
1:06:58
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I think it this this thing valet has got it's just you know he's just together all these isn't that what it
1:07:05
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is. Yeah, that's that's essentially what Capella is called. Capella and and what it what it was is it's basically Kufuos
1:07:13
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had a database called UFO um that contained, you know, hundred something thousand sightings. He took Kuf Kufos's
1:07:21
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UFO Cat. He took uh he took the database from Peter Davenport's National UFO Reporting Center. He took the Bluon database. So he took all three of those
1:07:29
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databases and then they added uh the uh Dominique Weinstein's pilot catalog in there. Uh and the few cases that BASS itself investigated got thrown in there.
1:07:40
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But by and large it's like 99% you know just the same public UFO databases from the main large UFO
1:07:47
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organizations is all Capella is. And so people like oh we need to get Capella.
1:07:52
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We need to get Capella. And while it's cool I think they should just release Capella as it is. we've effectively got a lot of the data that's already in
1:08:00
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Capella. So, and as far as uh you were mentioning the the PR junket that they kind of had this
1:08:07
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week, yeah, it's I I don't think it really did anything like there's really nothing that really happened at it,
1:08:15
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right? So, and if you look at the pictures of the event, it was primarily the people that attended it was almost entirely media or the people involved
1:08:24
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with the event or their staff and entourage or the people from 42 West, which was the PR firm that controls
1:08:32
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Leslie Keane and a few of the other people and like you can't talk to them unless you go through the PR firm. Um they were also there helping to wrangle
1:08:40
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ICE protesters, getting the ICE protesters out of the out of the photo shoots um at the PR event because they they didn't want those people protesting ICE in their UFO pictures apparently.
1:08:51
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So if you look at this attendance, I think really you probably had a few people that came that live locally, but it was the same usual suspects. it was
1:09:00
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somebody with a YouTube show or a podcast um or uh you know they had like News Nation there or some of these right-wing networks like Right Angle
1:09:09
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News I think was there um so they had some media there but that was pretty much all that was there and if you look at the crowd almost everybody had a
1:09:17
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camera so it was mostly media staff and entourage and maybe a few people and it didn't really move the needle you had
1:09:23
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David Gush up there talk for you know a few minutes where he talked about sentient plasma and other just random stuff and it's
1:09:33
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just it it's the same people requesting the same thing and I don't think it did anything at all. I got the a little bit of the impression of him busting out the
1:09:40
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intelligent plasmmoids was because of the fact that he knew people didn't want to hear the same again and there was oh plasmmoids right or I don't know
1:09:49
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but I don't know how reliable this is but I saw Jay Anderson uh in a comment mentioned there were a total of 40
1:09:57
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people there 40 um also it was interesting um after that uh conference um Jason Sands was in
1:10:05
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a space and of course Jason Sand also has magically a story about plasmoids that he had never shared before, but of course he has a story for everything.
1:10:13
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And it just seems like this is exactly how things get added to the lore because I don't think anyone was talking about
1:10:20
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plasmoids until this and suddenly it just kind of takes a life of its own.
1:10:26
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Um, yeah. I mean, there was a paper a year or two ago that somebody put out about
1:10:33
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intelligent plasma life um as like a a possibility that the UFO community kind of like latched on to uh briefly. Um I I
1:10:42
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remember looking at the paper at the time and and not being like too impressed with it. I I seem to recall uh there's a book by Lawrence Krauss like
1:10:50
1 hour, 10 minutes, 50 seconds
the science of Star Trek where he kind of goes over the some of the various things in the Star Trek show and whether it's like physically possible and he kind of like has a whole section on
1:10:58
1 hour, 10 minutes, 58 seconds
so-called like energy or plasma beings and how like like physically improbable or possible that kind of idea is like
1:11:06
1 hour, 11 minutes, 6 seconds
just the very idea that they're energy means there like you there'd be all sorts of relativistic effects like time wise like going on and how could you
1:11:14
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have like a life form that could like develop with all those relist like it'd be very very very difficult but again
1:11:22
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after people started talking about sending plasmoids people dug up that old NASA video of the tether in space right with the ice crystals like floating
1:11:29
1 hour, 11 minutes, 29 seconds
around it and it was like look we had proof of this already NASA already had this video and you can see the intelligent plasma like moving around
1:11:37
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intelligently and it's like I think a lot of what they're interpreting as intelligence is just like uh this traps
1:11:45
1 hour, 11 minutes, 45 seconds
various rules like electrostatic rules and principles that like create movements that like appear to be intelligent but it's actually just
1:11:54
1 hour, 11 minutes, 54 seconds
following like basic rules like cellular automata can appear to be intelligent but all they're actually doing is they have a set of pre-existing conditions
1:12:01
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that when they enter encounter one thing they do this they encounter this they do that like and so they're following a set pattern of rules and it's just the
1:12:08
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appearance of intelligence um that people are are trying to apply to it.
1:12:13
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Yeah, that is that is a pretty notoriously difficult um question in philosophy of science is how to distinguish lawlike behavior from
1:12:20
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intentional behavior. And that's what you're describing is uh to a a third party observer without knowing ahead of time what they're looking at. They might
1:12:29
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appear identical and it's very difficult to determine is this intentional behavior or behavior that displays intentionality from a creature or just
1:12:38
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lawike pattern-like behavior. Um, but it's just interesting just uh immediately Jason Sans just suddenly had
1:12:46
1 hour, 12 minutes, 46 seconds
a story of course it made him feel blissful and joy and it's just amazing how how easily he co-opts stuff.
1:12:54
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It did make me think a little bit back to uh stuff like Persinger was doing you know with the the electromagnetic
1:13:00
1 hour, 13 minutes
effects on the brain and um Dr. Greg Little had some some speculative ideas about, you know, religious ancient
1:13:08
1 hour, 13 minutes, 8 seconds
religious sites maybe having more hematite in the ground or something that would cause, you know, effects from but certainly not the same thing as a as a
1:13:17
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plasmoid being or whatever the the claim there was. But yeah, that's been some of the theories around some of like where you have some
1:13:25
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of these hot spots supposedly with like uh places like Marfa, Texas, Yakama, Washington where where they people
1:13:33
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regularly see like these like glowing lights around the mountains. And one of the theories is that always been they've been earth lights that are caused by geo like physical like phenomena on the
1:13:41
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ground that are generating these lights and that this that same geoysical phenomenon could be producing electric fields that are actually like modifying
1:13:49
1 hour, 13 minutes, 49 seconds
like how your brain interprets things and causing some of these sightings and stuff as well. Uh, I always found it interesting one of the theories about
1:13:56
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meteors and why some people some people when they see a meteor sighting they claim to hear it like they claim that they can hear a whistling which is
1:14:04
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should not be physically possible um for a meteor that's you know dozens of miles like away like you shouldn't be hearing anything and one of the actual theories
1:14:13
1 hour, 14 minutes, 13 seconds
that's been put forward for that is that you're not physically hearing an audible sound. It's an electromagnetic field from the meteor supposedly making your
1:14:21
1 hour, 14 minutes, 21 seconds
brain create that sound inside your head. Now, I'm not sure how that would work again with great distances, but that's been a theory that's put forward as to why people hear sounds with
1:14:29
1 hour, 14 minutes, 29 seconds
meteors when you shouldn't hear a sound with a meteor. Like, you actually shouldn't. But for but for as long as people haven't seen meteors, there's people that claim they hear them whistling like through the air.
1:14:39
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Yeah.
1:14:40
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If that were [clears throat] true, I I would expect people who are not looking at the meteor, don't even know there's a meteor there, to also hear it along with
1:14:47
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people looking at it. And I don't know how often that seems to happen.
1:14:52
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Yeah. Um I mean, there are quite a few UFO cases that kind of start out with people allegedly hearing a whistling sound and then going like going outside
1:15:01
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or going to a window and kind of trying to see what it is and they see kind of like a bright light or something. But
1:15:08
1 hour, 15 minutes, 8 seconds
Yeah, when I um you know saw had my UFO sighting back in the 90s, I had at least
1:15:16
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in my memory today, I heard it first. I heard like a low humming first and then turned around to see it.
1:15:24
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That is interesting.
1:15:25
1 hour, 15 minutes, 25 seconds
But yeah, I I I would tend to think that it's probably more like a so psychosoic kind of thing.
1:15:34
1 hour, 15 minutes, 34 seconds
um you know like people seeing something and imag imagining the sound possibly but meteors can be really um deceiving.
1:15:43
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I remember I saw one last year in the spring and um it was it was a green you know fireball and it was it was huge and
1:15:52
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there were you know probably I don't know a dozen pieces to this thing that were like breaking off and it literally looked like it was an airplane crashing
1:16:00
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like a mile or two away. That's how close and big it looked. You know what's the um Isn't there actually a
1:16:07
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name for the effect of people will often describe it like a train car? I can't I want to say there was even a name for Yeah. It's it's like literally called the airship effect.
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Okay. Okay.
1:16:18
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Where when a meteor or even space debris breaks up in these different parts, it gives the appearance of like an elongated cigar- shaped object with
1:16:25
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windows. Um, and yeah, it's it's because there's various like when you see a meteor, there's various like uh visual effects like contour
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illusions. Um, and so where you think uh like when you see a black area and just some lights like your brain will automatically assume like perhaps it's a
1:16:41
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solid object like in between there, but it's not. That's your contour illusion that your brain is putting in there. And so it's like it's a combination of like
1:16:49
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a contra illusion and a various other effects that people interpret broken up meteors or space debris as like like
1:16:56
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trains, cars or you know cigar- shaped airship craft or things of that nature.
1:17:01
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Was that what uh Charles and Witted saw out of the the the air out of the airplane?
1:17:06
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Yeah. Abs. Absolutely. And and so Charles Witted was one of these sightings that like was put up as like the holy grail for a very long time. In
1:17:15
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fact, it was like what convinced people at Project sign that like some of them that UFOs were extraterrestrial and the real deal and all that. And it wasn't
1:17:22
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really until there was a rocket re-entry called ZH 4 in the 60s and they got copies of like sketches
1:17:30
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that witnesses did of this rocket re-entry and they were basically identical to the Charles Witt sighting.
1:17:35
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just countless sketches of people with these cigar- shaped crafts with windows, you know, and like a little like a flame off the end of it. And
1:17:43
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yeah, and so that's when they started to really realize that, hey, wait a second.
1:17:47
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These these these are probably space space debris or meteors breaking up.
1:17:51
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And even researchers like Kevin Randall have, I think, came came to the conclusion with like Charles Witten that it was likely just a meteor sighting
1:17:59
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that these pilots saw outside their plane window. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.
1:18:05
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No, I was just going to say that was like like Jeff said, they put up oftentimes as one of the best UFO cases ever, right?
1:18:14
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Well, and another one of those cases was the like and it was always put up in these top 10 like the top 10 UFO case documentary
1:18:20
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the big giant Yukon case in uh in the 1996 I think um in Canada uh where people thought they saw this just huge
1:18:29
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mother ship with all these lights and like it turns out it was like a rocket like you know or satellite or something breaking up like over the area that
1:18:37
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people saw at the time and but for the longest time that was put forward in neuropology as top 10 case, like one of the best of the best. And that's we see
1:18:46
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that a lot in UFOs is that a lot of these former cases that were considered the cream of the crop, the best of the best, once we like start to learn more,
1:18:53
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get a little bit more information, they get explained. And what used to be considered best of the best is now, you
1:19:00
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know, has a quite easily explained proic explanation.
1:19:04
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Yeah. on the right there on the screen you can see that was the uh the recreation I think of what supposedly
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investigation had claimed the uh of course later we did find out that it was almost definitely most likely or
1:19:19
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whatever you want to say something re-entering the atmosphere but you go from from something you know like this to
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which just again speaks to the the witness memory issue right and a lot of factors but and And with the Yukon case, right,
1:19:36
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there was so there's like a there was a couple of other people that saw something supposed like the same night and like one or two of those sightings
1:19:43
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supposedly doesn't match up with the rocket re-entry because they like it went in a different direction. But the thing you've got to understand is again
1:19:52
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eyewitness testimony is not that reliable. every single time you have a major fireball sighting in the US and there's a an association that tracks fireball sightings and people's reports.
1:20:03
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every time you have one, maybe a large percentage of the people will get the general direction and whatnot right and the time right, but there's always
1:20:12
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outliers that think it was going in the different direction or that got the time wrong by 15 minutes or so there's always
1:20:19
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people that, you know, just because they say they saw it go a different direction so it couldn't be the rocket doesn't mean it was really going the different direction. We know just historically
1:20:28
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from looking at mass siding events with things like fireballs that you always have a subset of the population that gets those details wrong. They don't know which way they're looking. They
1:20:36
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don't know which way it actually went or they get the time wrong.
1:20:40
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Yeah. And and you'd have to basically have to to believe that that wasn't the explanation. You'd have to think that there was this meteor or re-entering
1:20:50
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satellite or whatever as well as a UFO in front of it or on the other side of the sky or I mean you'd have to have both of those things going on at the
1:20:58
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same time to Yeah, that's that's the thing. What's what's more likely is that there a UFO happened to show up at the exact same
1:21:05
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time that this rocket or satellite was breaking up over the area or it was just the rocket breaking up over the area that people saw?
1:21:14
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Yeah. I mean, one of the the most striking examples of just how unreliable eyewitness testimony can be is the eyewitnesses of the Titanic who claimed
1:21:23
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that the ship did not split in half uh while others claimed it did. How could anyone possibly miss something like that in such a shocking uh fashion?
1:21:32
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Um I was going to ask you uh the the sound of the meteors like being described as a kind of whistling. Is that a fairly commonly recorded uh
1:21:42
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phenomena? like is that how it's very commonly reported by those who who claim to hear it?
1:21:47
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Yeah, I mean it's it's common enough that they've written papers about it and people have collected collections of people that report whistling and sounds from meteors. Yeah.
1:21:57
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I mean uh you might expect like a sonic boom or something if like it came in fast and and you know exploded. But, you
1:22:04
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know, whistling kind of whistling or kind of like buzzing or like humming sounds I think are fairly common. And I think one of the reasons people tried to
1:22:11
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tie that into like the the kind of electromagnetic effects on the brain thing is is that you can get kind of like humming kind of sounds like you
1:22:19
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know by magnetically stimulating like the brain. But again, I'm not sure what the the plausible physical mechanism
1:22:27
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with that would be from a meteor from great distance. And honestly the same thing with people that have suggested that geohysical phenomenon in the earth
1:22:35
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are affecting the brain. The the levels the fields needed to do that kind of thing with the brain is so high that I
1:22:42
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just I don't see it like focusing localizing like in the somebody's brain to cause that kind of effect.
1:22:49
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The reason I asked is because I I initially thought well expectation can create the illusion of a sound. If you see something moving and we all almost
1:22:57
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always assume anything that's moving creates a sound, the expectation could potentially generate the illusion of a sound, but it wouldn't account for how
1:23:05
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consistent the sound seems to be from person to person because different people might might expect a sonic boom.
1:23:11
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Other pe I would never expect a whistling sound from a meteor. I would kind of associate it with something bigger sounding or or lower frequency.
1:23:19
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So that that makes me think that there's there might be something to it because I I doubt it's common enough that people are just hearing other people describe
1:23:27
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it and it's kind of uh being passed along that way. Yeah. But I don't know how that would work because if it's if
1:23:35
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it's strong enough to reach you presumably whatever effect is uh it's having on you would would happen to
1:23:42
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anyone near you as well. And if that's not something that is found um I wonder Why not?
1:23:51
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Yeah.
1:23:52
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It's It's also interesting though that there's times where people where you should expect a sound when you're watching something and people claim not to hear a sound.
1:24:01
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Um when when many times I I find it funny somebody will post a UFO video and go like it's completely silent. you can't hear and you can literally like
1:24:09
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hear the plane or the helicopter and it's like I don't know what's going on in your head that it's completely silent to you because I can hear it through the
1:24:18
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speaker on my laptop. [laughter] Yep. Oh man.
1:24:25
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Well, seems like uh Streamyard seems to work pretty well. It looks like it's YouTube's running. So, I guess we had a
1:24:32
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successful test. I appreciate you guys all jumping on. You guys have other stuff you want to hit on or you wanna Should we close out here? And I I'd be up for like doing it every other week.
1:24:42
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You guys are certainly invited anytime you want to jump on maybe do it Friday every other week and we could just kind of do an informal thing or maybe have a
1:24:49
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topic of the day or not, you know, whatever. But yeah, I'd rather I'd rather talk about this stuff with you guys than spaces.
1:24:58
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Yeah. Yeah. Sp I can't I can't handle that. That's the worst. I was thinking the spaces are like one step above Xbox Live chat from 20, you know, where
1:25:07
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people just screaming and profanity each other all the time. But yeah, yeah, you know, I try I occasionally try to turn it tune into his space just to
1:25:16
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like give him another chance to see if like I'm missing something and just like every single time it's like one minute in I'm like, "Nah, nope.
1:25:25
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Bye." Like because it's just people like yelling at each other half the time about just the dumbest crap and it's like I don't know how people have time
1:25:33
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for all that. Like I I have no problem talking with you know intelligent people with good conversation like you guys but like spaces are a disaster. They remind
1:25:43
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me of like old party lines like back in my hacker days. We used to uh we used to dial up um with a TTY the system for
1:25:51
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deaf people and so we could type it in with the modem and pretend we're deaf because then they would bill the TTIY line for setting up a party line. And so
1:26:00
1 hour, 26 minutes
then we'd have a party line that wasn't built to us and we could pass the number around and people would call in and we'd talk and but it was always such a disaster. Everybody trying to talk over
1:26:08
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each other. Half the people were like drunk or intoxicated. um and not making any sense. And it's just like I don't
1:26:16
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know how people literally spend all day on them. There's people that will spend 16 hours in spaces a day and it's like what the hell is wrong with you guys?
1:26:25
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Like yeah, that's what I was about to mention that the time spent on by by some folks, you know, is wow. Yeah. And I I I do
1:26:33
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think it gets to a certainly can get to a point for for some folks where they they that might be the entirety of their if you want to call it social contact
1:26:41
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with other people is is you know through through spaces or stuff like that. Yeah, it's
1:26:48
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if they spent a fraction of that time actually studying this freaking topic like going and reading a book or something,
1:26:55
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they would be so much better off. Yeah, but yeah, I mean these guys could read whole books in the time that they spend in a space in one day.
1:27:04
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Like they could be geniuses by now on the UFO topic. [laughter] All right, guys. Well, I'm going to
1:27:11
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close it out. Thanks you guys for jumping in. Yep.
1:27:15
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See you next time around. Thanks everybody. Good to see you guys.