Hello everybody. Welcome to Unveiled. My guests today are filmmakers Adam Panin and Megan Whoomer, directors of the new
0:3434 secondsdocumentary The Cotay Photo. On September 4th, 1971, a Costa Rican government mapping aircraft photographed
0:4141 secondsLago do from thousands of feet in the air. Nobody aboard reported seeing anything unusual at the time. But when the film was examined, one frame in
0:5050 secondsparticular contained something pretty extraordinary. a sharply defined discshaped object that wasn't present in the photographs immediately before or
0:5959 secondsafter it. Now 55 years later, that photograph still hasn't been conclusively explained. Adam Megan, welcome to Unveiled.
1:071 minute, 7 secondsHi. Hello. Thank you for having us.
1:091 minute, 9 secondsIt's great to speak with you. I'm really looking forward to digging into this. Um Megan, from what I understand, this whole journey started with a trip that you took to Costa Rica. Is that correct?
1:201 minute, 20 secondsYes. I was visiting a friend in Costa Rica and she was telling me about this famous photo and then I told Adam about
1:291 minute, 29 secondsit and thought it would make a great documentary idea and it did.
1:361 minute, 36 secondsWhat was it that uh made it obvious that this should be the subject of your very first documentary together?
1:441 minute, 44 secondsYou want to take this one? Um, you can go.
1:471 minute, 47 secondsAll right. It's it's such a compelling photo, right? It's it's got a chain of custody through the Costa
1:561 minute, 56 secondsRican government and um it's it's just striking. So, when you see it, it feels like you know what you're looking at.
2:042 minutes, 4 secondsYou you're looking at a UFO uh disc in the sky. And um so when she came back
2:112 minutes, 11 secondsfrom Costa Rica and was telling me about it, it she was just so excited like she had she was smiling ear to ear and she's
2:182 minutes, 18 secondslike, "I have this idea. We need to we need to explore it." And um it's a
2:252 minutes, 25 secondscaptivating photo. It's been around for years. It's intrigued a lot of people, a lot of different UFO researchers. And uh
2:332 minutes, 33 secondsyeah, it really it really caught our interest and it kept pulling us in. You know, when when we made our first uh
2:412 minutes, 41 secondsemail and phone call to Michael Strickland, it was kind of a shot in the dark and we didn't we didn't know if we were going to actually make a documentary on it, but we said, "Let's
2:502 minutes, 50 secondssee who we can get in contact with." And uh so from there, we found Michael Strickland, who is a drum scan technician that lives in Liverpool,
2:582 minutes, 58 secondsKansas, who did the original rescan of the photo. and he introduced us to Estabbon who introduced us to Sergio and
3:083 minutes, 8 secondsnext thing you know it just kind of steamrolled and um I don't know if we chose this for our first documentary or
3:153 minutes, 15 secondsit chose us because it really kind of started to feel like it chose us and uh you know we couldn't ignore it. It
3:233 minutes, 23 secondsreally it really pulled us in in ways that you know you can't almost really explain it. it had a a pull that we just couldn't ignore.
3:333 minutes, 33 secondsAnd we were really lucky the way things aligned. I mean, it really really went well as far as making the film and the
3:413 minutes, 41 secondspeople we were able to connect with and meet. Um, it was just been a really great experience.
3:473 minutes, 47 secondsBefore we get into some of the details about the photo itself and the film, how deep were both of you into UFOs and UAPs
3:573 minutes, 57 secondsbefore all of this started? Was it an a deep interest of yours or did this kind of introduce you more into that world?
4:044 minutes, 4 secondsI was always kind of interested in the subject but never really felt driven to, you know, be a content creator in the
4:124 minutes, 12 secondsspace. Like I wasn't like, oh, I need to really make my mark in the UFO world.
4:174 minutes, 17 secondsUh, but I've always been interested in it. And uh so that's part of the reason why when Megan saw this, she's she we
4:244 minutes, 24 secondshad been talking about making a documentary and using our film making skills in a way that kind of um allows
4:324 minutes, 32 secondsus to like create a story and tell a story. And um but when she saw this photo, she's like, "This is this is perfect for you." And uh perfect for us.
4:434 minutes, 43 secondsAnd it really yeah, it was captivating.
4:474 minutes, 47 secondsSo, um, I do love the genre. We've met so many interesting people along the way. We went to Contact in the Desert a
4:554 minutes, 55 secondsfew months ago. I just went to Muon in Cincinnati this weekend. Um, it's opened up so many doors for us and it's
5:035 minutes, 3 secondsintroduced us to so many different people and and ideas and it's been really an amazing journey every step of the way.
5:135 minutes, 13 secondsWell, I was also at contact in the desert this year. We may have seen each other in passing at some point without realizing it. So that's pretty cool.
5:195 minutes, 19 secondsYeah, it was a great event and there were it was so amazing to see the community around it come together and
5:255 minutes, 25 secondsand there is a real community around uh disclosure and research and and the
5:335 minutes, 33 secondsphenomenon itself on many different levels. You know, there's the people who are really interested in the technical
5:405 minutes, 40 secondstechnical aspects of, you know, what they can quantify and then there's a lot of people out there who really
5:485 minutes, 48 secondslook at the subject from the lens of what it means metaphysically and and what uh what it means spiritually. So,
5:575 minutes, 57 secondsit runs the gamut of people who are really interested in the subject. Mhm.
6:036 minutes, 3 secondsAnd we've had a a really really great connection with the community and everyone has been so kind and they've
6:106 minutes, 10 secondsreally embraced us and help us, you know, feel confident kind of, you know, bring this movie out and it's been a really great experience.
6:196 minutes, 19 secondsWell, it's a fascinating subject. So, let's get into a little bit of the background about this photo. As you mentioned, there's a lot of history behind it. It was taken 55 years ago.
6:286 minutes, 28 secondsYour film is going to be released on the 55th anniversary of when the film was taken. Is that right?
6:356 minutes, 35 secondsYes. Yeah. Yeah.
6:396 minutes, 39 secondsAnd so take us back to when the photo was taken, the details surrounding it, and what happened immediately after.
6:476 minutes, 47 secondsWell, as you mentioned in your uh kickoff there, it was taken in 1971 during an aerial mapping expedition by
6:556 minutes, 55 secondsthe Costa Rican government. Um, and there were a couple cgraphers on that plane and a pilot. So, Sergio Lewisa,
7:047 minutes, 4 secondsthe lead cgrapher on that expedition, uh, is in the documentary and we interview him and he is such a beautiful
7:137 minutes, 13 secondssoul. Uh, we're so fortunate to have gotten to met him not just for this documentary, but in life because he's such a a a kind person and a kind soul.
7:257 minutes, 25 secondsAnd when we first started talking, you know, Megan was uh texting back and forth with him for for a month. Like
7:327 minutes, 32 secondsthey be they just become the became the best of friends like immediately. Um so yeah, in 1971 they captured this photo
7:407 minutes, 40 secondsand they didn't even really know it was on the on the film until they reviewed
7:487 minutes, 48 secondsit a couple years later for uh a dam project at that Arnold
7:557 minutes, 55 secondsLake Arnold. And um so a few years later they they discovered this shiny little
8:018 minutes, 1 seconddisc and uh it was actually Sergio himself along with another partner who was reviewing that film for the Aeronol
8:108 minutes, 10 secondsDam project and you know his colleague was like hey what is this and he's like that looks like a like a UFO and uh they
8:208 minutes, 20 secondskicked it up to uh his his the person in charge charge of the department and it
8:288 minutes, 28 secondskind of just sat, you know, they mum was the word and they stopped talking about it and it and it just kind of faded into
8:378 minutes, 37 secondsthe background for a couple years before the Vilch brothers, a couple of pioneers and UFO research in Costa Rica, got a
8:468 minutes, 46 secondshold of the photo. And nobody really knows how or why, but they got a hold of a copy of the photo. And they gave it to
8:548 minutes, 54 secondsLenion, which is their national newspaper, which uh they ended up writing a report on it, and it it caught
9:039 minutes, 3 secondsthe interest of Jay Allen Heinik, who kind of started to do a little bit of research on the photo himself. And
9:119 minutes, 11 secondsultimately that led to uh Richard Haynes and Jack Valet doing an in-depth report [snorts] on all the aspects of the
9:199 minutes, 19 secondsphoto. So, the lighting um and all the different characteristics of the photo and and in their uh in their report on
9:309 minutes, 30 secondsit, they came to the conclusion that they couldn't explain what it was, but
9:379 minutes, 37 secondsthat there is a physical object on the original negative of the film. And that's that's the disc that we all know
9:449 minutes, 44 secondsand love today. So Sergio Lawisea stayed silent about this for for a long time.
9:529 minutes, 52 secondsUm do you know what it was that made him decide to come forward and and speak openly about it?
9:599 minutes, 59 secondsUm he did say that it was time to start telling his stories. Um he's actually a lifelong experiencer and his parents
10:0610 minutes, 6 secondswere also experiencers. He remembers being 5 years old and seeing a saucer just in the air flying with him and his
10:1410 minutes, 14 secondsparents just as they walked along. So he has some really really interesting stories. And Costa Rica is also unique.
10:2210 minutes, 22 secondsSo he might not in that they don't have a military and Costa Ricans and I think Central and South Americans are very
10:3010 minutes, 30 secondsopen about the possibility of um things are not around here. Yes, they're
10:3810 minutes, 38 secondsvery open. So, I think he's always been open amongst family and friends, but yeah, he just says it's time for him to
10:4610 minutes, 46 secondsstart telling his stories. So, and he's a wonderful person. Just a really peaceful man. He has wonderful energy,
10:5410 minutes, 54 secondsthe strongest handshake that you would ever feel. I mean, he's he's incredible and just what he's done with his work and in his life. I mean, he could he
11:0211 minutes, 2 secondsjust has so many stories and his family's really beautiful, too. It seems to be a common characteristic of people
11:1011 minutes, 10 secondswho have seen things like this that later on in life they decide that it's it's important to really share their story. Um, and the other example that
11:1911 minutes, 19 secondscomes to mind is I interviewed James Fox about um a film that he recently did uh where, you know, a a doctor came forward
11:2711 minutes, 27 secondsin his 80s um after being silent for for decades about his experience of having allegedly had one-on-one contact with an
11:3611 minutes, 36 secondswith an ET um in in the hospital. Uh and and so this isn't an uncommon thing that
11:4311 minutes, 43 secondspeople as they get older feel this drive to share their experiences. Um so yeah,
11:5011 minutes, 50 secondsI'm not surprised to hear that. Speaking about the other experiences that Sergio has had with UAPs, UFOs in his life,
11:5811 minutes, 58 secondsfor somebody who might be a skeptic um about this stuff, do you think that that strengthens his story or do you think
12:0512 minutes, 5 secondsthat makes it easier to discard or disbelieve the photo given, you know, his background?
12:1312 minutes, 13 secondsHaters are going to hate. you know, people are going to it's, you know, we've done like I was on the news the other day and you go through the comment
12:2212 minutes, 22 secondssection and you know, those people are never going to be satisfied with any level of evidence that you present to
12:2912 minutes, 29 secondsthem. And so I imagine for some of those people, they might think less of the photo because he has these experiences.
12:3712 minutes, 37 secondsBut for the people who have had these experiences, like they they share some commonalities with
12:4312 minutes, 43 secondsthat. And I so you know there's no convincing some skeptics that this is a real photo or that this phenomenon is
12:5212 minutes, 52 secondsreal and quite frankly it the like we don't need them to believe you know so they they can believe what they want.
13:0213 minutes, 2 secondsUm, but it but it is such a compelling photo that you know when with this documentary we sat down with Sergio and
13:1013 minutes, 10 secondswe spent the time with him and we let him tell his story and we weren't trying to force a narrative and that's just
13:1713 minutes, 17 secondswhat it was. You know, it's like he had those experiences. They were real and uh he lived them and he was sharing them
13:2513 minutes, 25 secondswith us. And so like yeah, people will always find a way to dismiss it or
13:3213 minutes, 32 secondsdiscredit it or call BS. And you know, good for them. But you know, when we
13:3913 minutes, 39 secondsspent that time with Sergio, like it really felt like community. It felt like
13:4613 minutes, 46 secondssomebody who was sharing their truth with us. uh who really um
13:5413 minutes, 54 secondswho really took time to to care for all the people around him. And and his message is really about being good
14:0314 minutes, 3 secondspeople and spending time with your family and finding the the simple things in life. And like it may be a big big
14:1214 minutes, 12 secondssubject, but it all comes down to uh the the micro where you know connecting with people and being connected to the earth.
14:2314 minutes, 23 secondsAnd so, yeah, I you know, the the skeptics will always be skeptics and um you know, you could you could show them
14:3214 minutes, 32 secondsa video of, you know, uh an a UFO landing on the White House lawn as as
14:3914 minutes, 39 secondsthey say, but you know, they'll go, "Oh, that's AI." And it might be, but this film, this photo is a piece of film.
14:4914 minutes, 49 secondsIt's it's an artifact. It's really uh something that
14:5514 minutes, 55 secondshas stood the test of time and um you know it'll always have its detractors
15:0115 minutes, 1 secondbut you know I'm pretty convinced myself that you know there is a physical object on that piece of film. You can argue
15:1015 minutes, 10 secondsabout what it is. You know is it some secret government um project? Is it, you
15:1715 minutes, 17 secondsknow, something from the future or the past or interdimensional or extraterrestrial? And I don't know if we really ever try to claim it to be any
15:2515 minutes, 25 secondsone of those things. Rather, that it's a physical object on this piece of film.
15:3215 minutes, 32 secondsOh, and by the way, the people around this have had experiences their entire lives and they're now sharing it with us. So,
15:4015 minutes, 40 secondsyeah. And we came in, we didn't have a script, we didn't have any guidance for them. we just came in and we said, "We
15:4715 minutes, 47 secondswant to hear your story." And so, and it was really important to us to be truthful and not push anyone into a box
15:5415 minutes, 54 secondsor we really wanted them to be their honest and open selves. And we wanted to make everyone shown in a really good
16:0216 minutes, 2 secondslight. We didn't want to twist anything or, you know, cuz these are real people who have real experiences. This Emmy was
16:1016 minutes, 10 secondsso nervous. She was shaking, you know, like visibly trembling before our interview. So, I really really And
16:1816 minutes, 18 secondsshe's the sweetest person. And so, we're so thankful that she was able to get on camera because it's nerve-wracking. It's
16:2716 minutes, 27 secondsthese people haven't just decided to seek fame in in the back end of their life. I mean, they're just telling their stories because they think it's important they're told.
16:3716 minutes, 37 secondsAbsolutely. Many people have absolutely nothing to gain from sharing their stories. If anything, it makes life harder for them in certain situations.
16:4416 minutes, 44 secondsSo, um, yeah, I always try to give people with stories like these the benefit of the doubt. When sitting down with Sergio, I mean, however you want to
16:5316 minutes, 53 secondslook at it, 55 years have passed since this photo was taken. So, how did you distinguish between the memories that he
17:0217 minutes, 2 secondshad of the event versus information that could be corroborated um with, you know, physical evidence or or testimony from from back then?
17:1217 minutes, 12 secondsUm, well, he's still very sharp.
17:1517 minutes, 15 secondsYeah, he's he's with it, man. He's he's on the ball. He knows what's happening.
17:2117 minutes, 21 secondsIt's he's not just some old scenile guy hanging out in the jungle somewhere.
17:2617 minutes, 26 secondslike he walks every day, he gets out in the community, he eats healthy, lots of Costa Rican coffee,
17:3417 minutes, 34 secondsright? And uh and there's a saying in Costa Rica, pure vida, and that that means pure life. And I think when you go
17:4317 minutes, 43 secondsdown to Costa Rica and you hang out with Sergio and Estabbon and the people that we met, you really get a sense of
17:5117 minutes, 51 secondsuh this connection to the earth and finding the purest form of life, which is like community, friends, family, and
18:0018 minutesyeah, he he really is a phenomenal person. Um, but like yeah,
18:0918 minutes, 9 secondsthe the first kind of part we we open the movie and we really kind of talk about the technical aspects of it and then we get into
18:1818 minutes, 18 secondsum the more ethereal stuff later on and um yeah, like I said, the it it's it's
18:2718 minutes, 27 secondssuch a compelling photo and and the photo has an unbroken chain of command. So whether or not, you know,
18:3518 minutes, 35 secondssomebody wants to believe whatever is on frame 300, it's an official government photo unbroken chain of custody. And I
18:4318 minutes, 43 secondsthink that's really important as well, that the governments are like, it's something. We're not going to say it's a spaceship, but it's something. I mean,
18:5118 minutes, 51 secondsit's real. The the image has not been tampered um at all. So, and then it's up
18:5918 minutes, 59 secondsto the viewer to decide from there, of course. Absolutely. One of the most common criticisms about UFOs from
19:0719 minutes, 7 secondsskeptics is the lack of clear photographs of of UFOs. But but at the
19:1519 minutes, 15 secondssame time, in this day and age, you can refute anything that gets posted online as being a fake AI, what have you. It's
19:2419 minutes, 24 secondsgetting harder and harder to believe that things are real, you know, uh by today's standards. However, this
19:3119 minutes, 31 secondsphotograph was taken in 1971 and there's absolutely no refuting that it's authentic and you as you mentioned you went through great detail on the the
19:4019 minutes, 40 secondstechnical aspects of the equipment that were used to take it and exactly what was happening as you mentioned unbroken
19:4719 minutes, 47 secondschain of command and then you even got it uh scanned um in in very very high what's the term the um
19:5619 minutes, 56 secondswe used a hypo tango drum scanner And so if you are the Smithsonian and you're
20:0420 minutes, 4 secondstrying to archive a piece of film, you're using a Tango drum scanner. It is the height of analog to digital
20:1320 minutes, 13 secondsreplication. Um, and it doesn't get any better than that. And after kind of Kodak stopped making film for a while
20:2220 minutes, 22 secondsand then so these machines just kind of went away. And uh it really takes a specialist uh who has some of this
20:3120 minutes, 31 secondsequipment to kind of still use it. So there's a few of them left in the world.
20:3520 minutes, 35 secondsUh and Michael Strickland is one of the people who has he has two of these machines actually. And he got them
20:4320 minutes, 43 secondsbecause he does these amazingly beautiful landscape portraits. and he was finding himself always kind of
20:5120 minutes, 51 secondstrying to scan his analog images cuz he likes to shoot on film and he likes to use oldw world film making techniques
21:0121 minutes, 1 secondand um he makes his own emotions at times like he's really a very very serious photographer which led him to uh
21:0921 minutes, 9 secondsgetting these tango drum scanners and you know he he himself uh Michael Strickland at one point wanted to be an aeronautical engineer.
21:1921 minutes, 19 secondsHe's so smart.
21:2021 minutes, 20 secondsHe's so he's really smart. [laughter] And um so yeah, it that is the absolute height of analog to digital replication.
21:3221 minutes, 32 secondsSo like I said, if you're the Smithsonian and you're trying to put something in your archives, you're you you're calling somebody like Michael
21:4021 minutes, 40 secondsStrickland to scan it. And it's also important to note that this isn't just a normal piece of film. It's not a small
21:4721 minutes, 47 secondslittle 35 millimeter film and or a 70 millimeter film like that's IMAX. So like if you've ever been to an IMAX
21:5621 minutes, 56 secondstheater, you got this giant screen and this super high detail everything and and that actual frame of film is tiny in
22:0522 minutes, 5 secondscomparison. You know, an IMAX film is like two and a half inches give or take
22:1022 minutes, 10 secondsof of acetate. And this film is 23 cm by
22:1622 minutes, 16 seconds23 cm. It is the camera that was used to to take it is a very highly tuned Zeiss
22:2522 minutes, 25 secondscamera using like it's just like the equipment is not just something that you carry around in your pocket.
22:3522 minutes, 35 secondsyou know, it took um it's a 100 pound camera bolted to the bottom of the Aerrow Commander plane.
22:4322 minutes, 43 secondsAnd I think also people don't realize how ginormous this this shot was. The the saucer is like a
22:5122 minutes, 51 secondsspeck in it. It's it's very easy to overlook unless you know they were going through it with a fine tooth comb for
22:5922 minutes, 59 secondsanother reason and they're like, "Hey, what is this? That's odd.
23:0223 minutes, 2 secondsThis this shouldn't be here. This is different." Uh, and it's cool because we're photo the photo they photographed the saucer from
23:1123 minutes, 11 secondsabove, which is interesting. Usually, obviously, UFOs were photographing them from down below and looking up. This one, we caught it from above, which is
23:1923 minutes, 19 secondsalso a really unique perspective in the photo.
23:2323 minutes, 23 secondsYeah. And so, one of the big questions around the the object in the photo is how large it actually is because you
23:3123 minutes, 31 secondscan't really tell the altitude that it's at. So you can only kind of speculate as how large it is in diameter, right?
23:3923 minutes, 39 secondsGiven the information that you guys have, what is your best guess as to how large it is?
23:4723 minutes, 47 secondsUh well, I will tell you what Sergio and Estabbon think it is. Uh it is the scale
23:5323 minutes, 53 secondsof the photo of the negative is one in 20,000. So that's like saying 1 cm
23:5923 minutes, 59 secondsequals 200 m. At ground the the disc itself on the photo is 0.42 cm wide
24:0924 minutes, 9 secondswhich would if you do the math on that would indicate that the diameter of the disc is 84 m if it's sitting on the
24:1824 minutes, 18 secondsground. Like you said there's no real way to indicate how high it is. And you know, there's people who have tried and
24:2724 minutes, 27 secondsum but you you really can't tell. It's it's under 10,000 ft. It was underneath the plane and but you can't we we could
24:3624 minutes, 36 secondsonly speculate as to how high it was. Uh but at ground level, 84 meters, that's
24:4324 minutes, 43 secondsthat's pretty big. like it's it's um so you know uh we that's one thing I
24:5124 minutes, 51 secondswould love to be able to give you a stronger answer about but that's one of the mysteries of the photo um that that
24:5824 minutes, 58 secondswe just have to kind of live and let live because I don't know if I have the best answer for you but on the ground
25:0625 minutes, 6 secondsit's 84 meters and then there's been debate whether or not it's coming in and out of the water is it under the water
25:1325 minutes, 13 secondseven where's the shadow at you know and um I've seen uh like since we started
25:2025 minutes, 20 secondsdoing this like people have been sending me their own investigations that are like hey if I did I use advanced
25:2725 minutes, 27 secondscalculus in my own way to show that the shadow would be off of the frame or you know would be in the water somewhere.
25:3625 minutes, 36 secondsUm, and then we, you know, watching other documentaries like, uh, S4 with
25:4325 minutes, 43 secondsBob Lazar, Bob Lazar describes, uh, being right underneath the sport model and not being able to see it until
25:5125 minutes, 51 secondshe looked at it from a different angle, different perspective, and then it shows up and then it's gone. So, um, you know, there's there's a lot of mystery there.
26:0026 minutesIt's it's still one of those things that um will you can, you know, uh uh you can
26:0826 minutes, 8 secondsdebate and you can really kind of take and analyze for yourself. And we've made the attempt to get this photo out there
26:1826 minutes, 18 secondsfor anybody to to pull down the high resolution scan and take a look for themselves and and run these tests that
26:2426 minutes, 24 secondsthey got. and you know make it being filmmakers you can only do so much with it but um there's you know there's
26:3226 minutes, 32 secondspeople out there smarter than me and many of them that can yes can analyze it for days it's been analyzed by I mean the most
26:4126 minutes, 41 secondsbrilliant minds of our day so Dr. Haynes and Dr. LA amongst many others. So, you know, these are guys mapping Mars
26:5026 minutes, 50 secondsand you know, we're filmmakers from Detroit. So, um yeah, there's there's
26:5726 minutes, 57 secondsbrilliant people out there and we encourage anybody who wants to take a look and who wants to understand it further, pull down the high resolution
27:0627 minutes, 6 secondsimage. you know, we we scanned it uh a fraction the the crop of the disc at 10,999
27:1427 minutes, 14 secondsdpi. So, it was the highest resolution of the film, the highest resolution that the Tango drum scanner can go and it's
27:2327 minutes, 23 secondsdown to you can see the individual granulars of silver in the film emulsion. So, please, by all means,
27:3027 minutes, 30 secondsanybody out there who's listening, pull down the photo and take a look for yourselves and really kind of
27:3727 minutes, 37 secondsinvestigate it. And, you know, I'm happy to listen to anybody's opinion about what they think it is, too.
27:4527 minutes, 45 secondsAnd that was really important to Estabbon as well. He want he thinks that UFO UAP materials should be widely
27:5227 minutes, 52 secondsavailable for free to the public across the world. So he asked us to put that scan on our website for free for anyone
27:5927 minutes, 59 secondswho wants it. So I I think he's just a very kind, you know, person, thoughtful that he would even think of that. I was
28:0728 minutes, 7 secondslike, "Wow, that's that's an amazing idea." So yeah, they, you know, Estabbon who is kind of takes us through this adventure
28:1628 minutes, 16 secondsthat we go on with this photo. Uh, and Sergio kind of share that same
28:2328 minutes, 23 secondsmentality, which is like this is public knowledge. This isn't for a select few
28:3028 minutes, 30 secondsto have and monetize and monetize and keep in the keep hidden somewhere, you know? It's like this
28:3928 minutes, 39 secondsisn't a documentary that says like, "Hey, we have this top secret thing and we're going to show you at the very end, you know? We're like, it's here. It's
28:4728 minutes, 47 secondswe're going to put it in front of your face and we're going to we're going to show you it a couple times and then we're really going to let you guys
28:5528 minutes, 55 secondsdecide, but we're going to give you the clearest look that we could possibly give to it. and you know, we're going to
29:0429 minutes, 4 secondsgive you the scan and you know, we're we're open to any kind of real discussion about it. And there's there's
29:1229 minutes, 12 secondsdiscussion to be had. You know, there's discussion to be had about all these things that have been coming out. And since we started uh this project, you
29:2129 minutes, 21 secondsknow, the government has dumped what five tanches of different UFO images and some of them make their way into our
29:2929 minutes, 29 secondsfilm when Leslie Kane is kind of talking. But like you see giant black bars over everything and like it's, you
29:3729 minutes, 37 secondsknow, if if they could probably just walk down the hall and take a picture of the sport model and give it to the world, but they're not doing that.
29:4429 minutes, 44 secondsThey're giving you you like giant black boxes over um images that are very compelling in
29:5329 minutes, 53 secondstheir own right, but this one, man, it is it's sharp. Like, you can you can see the physical shape of the object. You
30:0230 minutes, 2 secondscan see the light wrap around it. You can tell it is a three-dimensional object, you know? It's not it's not hidden in the clouds. It's not um
30:1130 minutes, 11 secondsa hub cap or a disc light or a drop or Yeah, we've heard it all. And we can also agree to disagree. I mean, we are open.
30:2130 minutes, 21 secondsWe We think obviously it's a real image, but we're also very open. We can still be friends if somebody is like, "No,
30:2930 minutes, 29 secondsno, you're crazy." Okay, well, that's fine. Yeah.
30:3230 minutes, 32 secondsWell, yes. It's important to be able to agree to disagree on certain things. For sure. And you know, it helps your case when you're not too uh combative about
30:4130 minutes, 41 secondsthese these things because not everybody's going to agree. But what you have is definitely very compelling. And I just wanted to circle back to what you
30:4830 minutes, 48 secondsmentioned about Bob Lazar and the sport model because it it pertains to the other big mystery about this this object
30:5630 minutes, 56 secondsand that it it does not it is not present in frame 299 or 301. It's only in frame 300.
31:0531 minutes, 5 secondsAnd so your uh theory about perhaps it only being visible from a certain angle and the camera just so happened to catch
31:1231 minutes, 12 secondsit at exactly the right the right angle at that moment. Uh you know could potentially make sense. What do you
31:2031 minutes, 20 secondsthink is the reason why it's only present in that single frame?
31:2331 minutes, 23 secondsUm you know I maybe there there's no perfect answer for
31:3131 minutes, 31 secondsthat. You know the the the plane is flying along. It could be going in the opposite direction. It could be, you
31:3831 minutes, 38 secondsknow, like it when you look, you're looking down on it and from that from the top angle, you can see that it isn't
31:4631 minutes, 46 secondsperfectly flat. It's skewed. And you know, so you start to see a lot of these other documentaries that are out there that talk about like the flying dynamics
31:5431 minutes, 54 secondsof these things. Is it is it pushing and pulling spacetime or is it using magnets
32:0132 minutes, 1 secondto to really kind of interact with the magnetic fields to pull it along? Like
32:0832 minutes, 8 secondsthere are so many ways that this could have gone. Um but yeah, I you know I
32:1632 minutes, 16 secondsthey didn't see it on the plane. Um, and so I don't think it was something that was just hovering there for them all to
32:2432 minutes, 24 secondssee because they would have saw it. You know, they were um taking great care to to make these maps. That's their job.
32:3232 minutes, 32 secondsThey were cgraphers. They're highly trained. They were trained in Fort Clayton, Panama. And these are like real
32:3932 minutes, 39 secondsprofessionals that are out there mapping Costa Rica for the government. And there's um Lagoot is a very sacred lake.
32:5032 minutes, 50 secondsSo there are is some open chatter that there is a ship that is in Lago and kind
32:5832 minutes, 58 secondsof comes in and out as it pleases. I don't know if that's too out there for [laughter] for some people, but um there there's a few different theories.
33:0733 minutes, 7 secondsYeah. So we don't know if it was because of its speed that it was moving fast in a way that you know like it could was
33:1633 minutes, 16 secondsonly caught on this one frame if it was going in the opposite direction as the plane. So uh you know and this plane is
33:2433 minutes, 24 secondst they're the photos are being captured roughly at an interval of 13 seconds.
33:2933 minutes, 29 secondsSo, as it's flying the flight line, uh, every 13 seconds, you know, the
33:3633 minutes, 36 secondscamera is taking a new photo. Um, so, you know, that if you add 13 seconds
33:4633 minutes, 46 secondstogether, that's 26 seconds. A lot can happen in 26 seconds, you know, and um so yeah, if it's moving at thousands of
33:5533 minutes, 55 secondsmiles an hour, 26 seconds, it could be somewhere else in the world by then, you know. Um it could be interdimensional.
34:0334 minutes, 3 secondsThere's a lot of ideas out there that like some of these crafts might be interdimensional. So they it could have
34:0934 minutes, 9 secondsblinked in and out of of this dimension and only been there
34:1634 minutes, 16 secondsfor that brief second or like Bob Lazar said, you you can see it from this angle, but you take a step that way and
34:2434 minutes, 24 secondsit and it's gone, you know. And um again, it's it's speculation, so you know, uh there's no real way to prove it one way or the other, but it was there.
34:3734 minutes, 37 secondsWe caught that lucky moment that that one that one moment on on a piece of high resolution film that it was there.
34:4634 minutes, 46 secondsAnd that's truly remarkable.
34:4934 minutes, 49 secondsAbsolutely. and the and the zoomedin version of it really shows the distinct shape. It has that classic disc shape to
34:5734 minutes, 57 secondsit. And even though it's a black and white photo, it does seem to have a metallic quality to it, I guess, from the way that the light seems to be
35:0535 minutes, 5 secondsreflecting off of it. Um, did you get that impression too? Like this is very similar to the sort of uh classic flying
35:1435 minutes, 14 secondssaucer that Bob Lazar and others have have described.
35:1735 minutes, 17 secondsAbsolutely. And um my my day job before all this is making car commercials. Like
35:2435 minutes, 24 secondsI live in Detroit and as a filmmaker in Detroit, you've probably worked on a car commercial or two. And uh so I'm used to
35:3335 minutes, 33 secondsseeing sheet metal. Most of most of the work I do has a car in it that has certain characteristics when the light
35:4235 minutes, 42 secondshits it, you know, and the way things reflect off of it. And to me, there's no doubt that it's metallic. I said silver
35:4935 minutes, 49 secondsand somebody was like, "How could you possibly know it was silver? It was black and white." And you're like, "Okay, I get you." But also, like, it
35:5835 minutes, 58 secondsfeels very metallic. It feels like to me when I look at it, I I see a metal disc.
36:0536 minutes, 5 secondsAnd I don't, you know, it could be some kind of polycarbonate or something that really some material I don't even understand. you know, it could be
36:1436 minutes, 14 secondssomething not of this planet. So, uh, you know, it's like, yeah, I I say it's
36:2136 minutes, 21 secondsmetallic, but who knows what the material is, but it definitely looks metallic in nature to us.
36:2836 minutes, 28 secondsOne of my favorite um segments of the film is when uh Leslie Kane is interviewed and she said that this is
36:3536 minutes, 35 secondsher number one all-time favorite UFO photograph, which is a big statement because there's been a lot of UFO
36:4336 minutes, 43 secondsphotographs circulated and to hear that from somebody like her, you know, lends a lot of credibility to this photo. What do you guys think about that?
36:5236 minutes, 52 secondsI think it's wonderful and we didn't make this documentary even knowing that at the time. So that's another example
37:0037 minuteshow things kind of unfolded for us in a really fortuitous way. And I mean and she's such a great interviewee. She's so
37:0737 minutes, 7 secondssmart. She's so incredible. She's so knowledgeable. And to hear her say something like that is is so meaningful
37:1637 minutes, 16 secondsto us. And Leslie I, you know, from what I from having met
37:2337 minutes, 23 secondsher and spending a little time with her, like I know she doesn't say things lightly, right? like she
37:3237 minutes, 32 secondsshe showed me a level of integrity that I haven't seen while interviewing other
37:3837 minutes, 38 secondspeople for things like she really uh says what she means and means what
37:4437 minutes, 44 secondsshe says and and she was such a great partner in this because um you know like
37:5337 minutes, 53 secondsshe really helped us and you know we were sharing sharing the film with her as as we went along and she would be like, "Well, you should probably think
38:0138 minutes, 1 secondabout this or you should probably talk about this a little bit more." Or like, you know, and one of the things that we did as documentary filmmakers,
38:0938 minutes, 9 secondswhich you know, I don't know happens often, is when we asked her to be in it, we told her that she could at any given
38:1838 minutes, 18 secondspoint decide to pull out and not be a part of it. Like, if she saw our cut and was like, "Hey, I don't like the way I'm represented." you know, we gave her the
38:2738 minutes, 27 secondsright of refusal to to be taken out of it. And um and and I think that's the kind of approach that we took with this
38:3438 minutes, 34 secondswhole thing, like we want to represent you as accurately. We we never want anyone to
38:4138 minutes, 41 secondslook foolish or um twist them in a way that we didn't want to. And also as untested filmmakers, I think people are like,
38:5038 minutes, 50 seconds"Ah, let's kind of like [laughter] what's where are we going with this?" Um, so we had to kind of build that
38:5838 minutes, 58 secondstrust with our subjects as well. Um, yeah. And Leslie was so generous with all of her expert expertise, time,
39:0639 minutes, 6 secondsknowledge. I mean, just just a wonderful person. Yeah, she she really is an amazing soul and really an amazing researcher.
39:1739 minutes, 17 secondsLike she her book is a great read. Go read it. [laughter] UFOs, Generals. Uh I'm going to forget
39:2639 minutes, 26 secondsthe by line, but um yeah, it's like she really took care to uh tell stories as
39:3639 minutes, 36 secondsaccurately as possible. She doesn't um really live in a world of make believe. Like she's very very grounded.
39:4639 minutes, 46 secondsAnd you know, I don't know if you can say that about all UFO researchers, but I can definitively say that about Leslie
39:5339 minutes, 53 secondsKe. She's grounded. She's highly intelligent.
39:5839 minutes, 58 secondsUh and she's she really cares about the subject. And um part of the reason why
40:0640 minutes, 6 secondsshe agreed to it, you know, we we haven't made a documentary before. So when we approached her about it, you know, it's she she did her due diligence
40:1440 minutes, 14 secondsand checking us out and talking with us and you know, we spent a few uh phone calls back and forth before she agreed
40:2340 minutes, 23 secondsto it because she wanted to get to know what we were going to do with it and how we were going to portray it. And um
40:3040 minutes, 30 secondsand she has a long friendship with Estabbon Kuranza as well. So he was the connection there. Um yeah, I mean he's done so much research on this photo.
40:3940 minutes, 39 secondsIt's incredible.
40:4140 minutes, 41 secondsAnd at the end of the day, I think the reason why she did say yes is because she does believe in this photo and she
40:4840 minutes, 48 secondsit's uh she tells us in the documentary about it being one of the first things that pulled her into the subject. she
40:5540 minutes, 55 secondssaw this is on the this photo is on the cover of a famous French report called the Kmeta report and that's sort of the
41:0341 minutes, 3 secondsFrench version of government officials saying the most likely uh scenario for some of these cases is the
41:1241 minutes, 12 secondsextraterrestrial hypothesis and that really captivated her because it's like oh these are government
41:2041 minutes, 20 secondsofficials these are generals admirals you know people of note within the French government who are coming forward
41:2941 minutes, 29 secondsand saying, you know, that hey, these could very well be from somewhere else.
41:3541 minutes, 35 secondsAnd that kind of that was her first pull into studying UFOs
41:4341 minutes, 43 secondsand they say it's most likely that we are being visited. That is the most likely thing that is happening. So, well, I I I know a lot of people who
41:5241 minutes, 52 secondsshare that opinion and are happy to hear that, you know, being being corroborated, for sure. Um, because it's exciting to think about. I mean, who
42:0142 minutes, 1 seconddoesn't want that to be the case? Um, Leslie Keen is also a big part of the reason why we we've been talking about
42:0842 minutes, 8 secondsUFOs, UAPs, so much more openly over the past almost 10 years now. um you know being part of that uh New York Times
42:1842 minutes, 18 secondsarticle that um exposed you know ATIP and and and opened open the doors to all of the you know kind of government
42:2642 minutes, 26 secondscoverups that may may have been happening uh in recent times.
42:3342 minutes, 33 secondsyou know, we've come so far. Um, and and does that make this photo taken over 50
42:4042 minutes, 40 secondsyears ago more relevant now than it than it ever could have been? Is that why this is being spoken about so much more today? Did it have to wait for us to get to this period?
42:5142 minutes, 51 secondsI think a lot of people are way more open to the idea of it. the stigma of it
42:5842 minutes, 58 secondsis still very prevalent. But um you know in dealing in in doing this and talking to people like there's so many people
43:0643 minutes, 6 secondswith stories and uh the internet has opened up a world of understanding that people didn't have before. you were
43:1443 minutes, 14 secondsalways kind of fed a few things from certain news networks and you only had, you know, couple of
43:2243 minutes, 22 secondschannels of information and now you can really open up the world and and study cases in
43:3043 minutes, 30 secondsCosta Rica or Australia or the UK and um you start to see that you're not the
43:3743 minutes, 37 secondsonly one who's had experiences. There's people all over the world with it. Mhm.
43:4243 minutes, 42 secondsAnd I think too, even for younger generations who are adults but younger than we are, they grew up with the internet. They grew up with all of this
43:5043 minutes, 50 secondsat their fingertip versus um older generations, you would, you know, subscribe to UFO magazine or you would go through your own networks to find it.
44:0044 minutesBut the younger people, they're like, "Oh, yeah. We know this. This is, you know, we've we've been seeing this forever. This it has zero stigma to most
44:0844 minutes, 8 secondsof them, I think. and they're much more open, I think, in general to different ways of thinking and different um ideas.
44:1744 minutes, 17 secondsAnd that that 2017 article for the New York Times was was definitely a pivotal moment in UFO research because now like
44:2644 minutes, 26 secondsthe US government has acknowledged that, you know, they're spending money to study this phenomenon. And it's uh I saw
44:3444 minutes, 34 secondsan interview with Stephen Spielberg after Disclosure Day at South by Southwest where he credits that 2017
44:4244 minutes, 42 secondsarticle as being a big influence into his film, right? And so, you know, you got Stephen Spielberg, one of the most
44:5144 minutes, 51 secondsprolific filmmakers of all time, pointing to that article as inspiration for, you know, this blockbuster film.
45:0045 minutesAnd so that that's just incredible like that so many people were able to see it, you know, it it put it right on Main
45:0945 minutes, 9 secondsStreet like it's resonated.
45:1245 minutes, 12 secondsYeah. It's the New York Times. Like it's not, you know, the National Enquire.
45:1745 minutes, 17 secondsIt's it's the New York Times. And uh they don't just let anybody write articles, you know? I I can't just
45:2445 minutes, 24 secondssubmit something to the New York Times and see it published. like they're they're vetting stuff and you know Leslie
45:3245 minutes, 32 secondswould is going to research things way more intently than I ever could imagine.
45:3945 minutes, 39 secondsYou know, because she's that type of person. If she's going to say something, she's going to study it and she's going to look into
45:4845 minutes, 48 secondsall the possibilities. And um so yeah, that was such a pivotal article uh not
45:5545 minutes, 55 secondsjust for this film but for a lot of people in the field and it just really opened up um the ability for people to
46:0346 minutes, 3 secondssay yeah like this is this is mainstream like people aren't this isn't just for people in
46:1046 minutes, 10 secondstheir basements. This is like, you know, government officials should be paying attention and mom and dads should be paying attention and little kids should
46:1946 minutes, 19 secondsbe paying attention and, you know, it's really a subject that anybody can really get involved in and take a closer look at.
46:2846 minutes, 28 secondsYeah, it really did seem to open the floodgates big time. Megan, you were gonna say something.
46:3346 minutes, 33 secondsWell, and I think too, uh, because, you know, we have children in school and a lot of people are like, "Well, what happens when they come here?" And I was like, and I'm like, "They're here." I
46:4146 minutes, 41 secondsmean they are here so I think it'll be business as usual um but yeah I mean they've made contact repeatedly made
46:4946 minutes, 49 secondscontact and so now I think the next thoughts are well what does this mean for us what does this mean for humanity
46:5646 minutes, 56 secondslike how do we move forward with this or do we just keep on keeping on you well that does seem to be like the next
47:0447 minutes, 4 secondsevolution of the question like a lot of people who have moved past um you know are do UFOs exist are on to that next
47:1247 minutes, 12 secondsquestion. All right, what are they? You know, if they're if they're beings that don't originate from here on Earth, they're not human, then what does that
47:2047 minutes, 20 secondsmean? What does that mean about what we are? So, there's it opens up so many huge questions. Um, you know, this year has been so massive.
47:3147 minutes, 31 secondsYou mentioned Disclosure Day. that was a big pop culture, you know, phenomenon.
47:3547 minutes, 35 secondsBut also just the the volume of government releases of files, documents, photos, videos, as you mentioned before,
47:4447 minutes, 44 secondsthere's been like five five rounds of this um from the Pentagon and, you know, varying degrees of,
47:5347 minutes, 53 secondsyou know, opinions about them as as with all UFO related stuff. But what's your take on the quality of the releases that
48:0148 minutes, 1 secondwe've had so far? I know a lot of stuff's been redacted, censored to some degree, but um where do you stand on what's been released at this point?
48:0948 minutes, 9 secondsI think it's a great step forward. I think that um I think they're not giving
48:1648 minutes, 16 secondsyou the good stuff, but just by virtue of acknowledging it and putting it on the internet and letting it the world
48:2448 minutes, 24 secondssee, uh it it's it's a huge huge leap for the
48:3348 minutes, 33 secondsfor researchers, right? like you can now look at some of these videos and you can analyze [clears throat] them and before they were locked away in skiffs and like
48:4248 minutes, 42 secondsyou didn't have access to it but now anybody who wants to can go to a government website and pull them down
48:4948 minutes, 49 secondsand take a look and some of them you know are more compelling than others.
48:5548 minutes, 55 secondsUh, one one of them that I really kind of enjoyed looking at was the the weather balloon or the Chinese balloon
49:0449 minutes, 4 secondsshot down over Lake Hiron because we're from Michigan.
49:0749 minutes, 7 secondsUm, so, you know, kind of looking at that and seeing like is that a balloon?
49:1249 minutes, 12 secondsIs that some kind of like what is that thing? You know, and it's it's clearly not um the most resolute, but it's
49:2049 minutes, 20 secondsthere. And so like I think it's very intriguing to be able to go and and take a look at some of these videos and the
49:2849 minutes, 28 secondsfiles themselves because there's you know everybody it's easy to watch a video and it's you know you're you're more likely to watch the video than read
49:3749 minutes, 37 secondsthe articles there you know but these are like um official files that you know
49:4449 minutes, 44 secondspeople of note made to to tell uh people that above them that they experienced
49:5049 minutes, 50 secondssomething and um which is really really cool. There's been a lot of uh great people within the government who have
50:0050 minutesreally kind of started to push the subject and really tried to get answers out of um different people, you know,
50:0850 minutes, 8 secondslike and I think Marco Rubio has been one of the I in my opinion one of the top most open
50:1550 minutes, 15 secondspeople who's really trying to see what is this like what does this mean for us?
50:1950 minutes, 19 secondsthis is important. We really really need to be paying attention and trying to examine what this means.
50:2650 minutes, 26 secondsSo yeah, people all over different levels of government are now paying attention and talking about these things which is is quite a step forward.
50:3750 minutes, 37 secondsAnd uh but it also gives you know people who aren't in the government who aren't you know like I don't have a top secret
50:4550 minutes, 45 secondsclearance anywhere. Does that make me any less credible? Uh, some people yes, some people no, right? Like, uh, but now
50:5550 minutes, 55 secondsit's something that everybody can participate in and it's it's not just,
51:0151 minutes, 1 seconduh, hidden in in the Pentagon somewhere. It's like right out there. And like, so, like I said, I don't think they're really giving you
51:0951 minutes, 9 secondsthe good stuff. Like, I think there's more to be had. And it's and uh Megan likes to use the term trickle truth like
51:1851 minutes, 18 secondsso they just just give you a little bit of truth and a little bit here just to kind of move the needle a little bit and get you get
51:2551 minutes, 25 secondsyou talking but but pacify you for a little bit and then put out a little more.
51:3151 minutes, 31 secondsUm so we yeah I kind of feel like we're getting a little bit of the trickle truth where it's like we're we're going to acknowledge it. We're going to give
51:3851 minutes, 38 secondsyou some videos. Some of them will be very compelling. Some of them will be blurry with giant black bars over them.
51:4551 minutes, 45 secondsUm, but just the idea that they gave them to us is is pretty astounding.
51:5151 minutes, 51 secondsSome people that I've spoken to argue that real disclosure will never come from the government. Uh, what do you
51:5851 minutes, 58 secondsguys think about that? Is it is it in the hands of the people to, you know, take photos like the one that you uh
52:0652 minutes, 6 secondsthat you guys have examined in your dock? um you know talk tell their own stories, get the conversation going, you
52:1452 minutes, 14 secondsknow, just amongst the communities and stuff like this. How far can the government take us in in the official
52:2152 minutes, 21 secondssettings and like the the steps that have been taken so far? Do you think that's actually going to lead to the truth that everybody wants?
52:2852 minutes, 28 secondsI think that the government may not have a choice. I think the ET can ETSs can decide how much is released. And I mean
52:3652 minutes, 36 secondsif they really want to go all in, I think they have the ability to do so. Um I think too maybe for some people it uh
52:4452 minutes, 44 secondsit is better to go more slowly. Um what do you think Adam?
52:5052 minutes, 50 secondsYeah. Um, I I think government disclosure will happen quite literally
52:5652 minutes, 56 secondswhen there's something hovering over DC and it's sitting there for days and you know it's like it's there and you know
53:0553 minutes, 5 secondssomebody goes and tries to shoot it with a gun or something silly and like and and then it's they're never going to
53:1453 minutes, 14 secondsreally give you all that you want. But in talking to people like Sergio and Emmy and Kelly,
53:2353 minutes, 23 secondslike these are people who are just telling you their truths. And like I've never met a politician that I was like, "Oh, I really trust you. You're telling
53:3053 minutes, 30 secondsme everything I need to know." But when you spend time with Sergio, you're like, you feel like
53:3953 minutes, 39 secondshonesty and truth. And um like like I said, he wasn't trying to push an objective. if he was just sharing his
53:4753 minutes, 47 secondsreality with us. And so I do think that real disclosure comes from people
53:5453 minutes, 54 secondsoutside of these official government channels. And uh it's really when you listen to people's stories and I would
54:0154 minutes, 1 secondargue that like disclosures already kind of happen like we've already kind of got got what we're going to be told and um
54:1054 minutes, 10 secondsyou know there's haters are going to hate and the believers are going to believe and um but you look at people like Lu Alzando
54:1954 minutes, 19 secondsor you know uh when Harry Reid was still alive and all the all the things he had to say about it and like Uh there's so
54:2954 minutes, 29 secondsmany so many people in in this world who have given you disclosure and it's whether or not you
54:3754 minutes, 37 secondswant to believe what they're saying. And you know I'm going to tend to believe Sergio Lewisa over anybody in the US
54:4554 minutes, 45 secondsgovernment. You know, that's just it's like that guy when I spent time with him like I felt a connection and a certain
54:5454 minutes, 54 secondslevel of honesty and truth come off of him and like you know like when you get around people you can be like oh this guy's
55:0255 minutes, 2 secondsfull of it or you know like and I didn't feel any of that with him you know and it was like oh this guy is just sharing
55:1055 minutes, 10 secondshis honest truth with us and so like you know he's already he's already given me disclosure. Now whether or not that
55:1955 minutes, 19 secondsworks for everybody like well and I think too we have had so many acquaintances um chat with us because they know about
55:2755 minutes, 27 secondsour documentary when it's coming out and you would be shocked at how many people you know have had some sort of
55:3455 minutes, 34 secondsextraterrestrial UAP experience. It is not who you think. I mean once they know that you're open to it they're like oh I
55:4255 minutes, 42 secondstotally saw something. I mean, I would say 50% of my friends and family have had some type of experience.
55:5055 minutes, 50 secondsI mean, not everyone is in the forums or posting it online. They keep it quiet to themselves. And I I've been pretty
55:5755 minutes, 57 secondssurprised how many people I'm like, "Oh, really?" And they're like, "Yeah." And I'm like, "Oh, that's that's great." So, especially in Michigan, we have a lot of
56:0556 minutes, 5 secondsmaybe we're a more active place than most, but there's a lot of activity here.
56:1056 minutes, 10 secondsYeah. at the at the MUON conference this past weekend in Cincinnati, there was a discussion about uh the 94 case where there were UFO sightings all over
56:1956 minutes, 19 secondsMichigan. And I was just blown away by it. I'm like, "Wow, that you know, like there's there's so many different cases. So many
56:2856 minutes, 28 secondsdifferent people have had experiences with seeing something in the sky and or being abducted or, you know, you name
56:3656 minutes, 36 secondsit. But um and some of them are are, you know, lying, but a lot of these people aren't. They're just sharing their reality with you.
56:4756 minutes, 47 secondsI feel like I already know the answer to this question based on the some of the responses that you just gave, but I'd like to hear it in your own words. What
56:5556 minutes, 55 secondsdo you think that object is in the Cotay photo? I do believe that it is
57:0457 minutes, 4 secondsa flying saucer and I believe that it's kind of been fed to us through pop
57:1057 minutes, 10 secondsculture for years, right? Like it it's almost comical how much it looks like, you know, poster art from the 50s where
57:1957 minutes, 19 secondsit's like UFOs are real, you know, and it's like it it is that disc. and um you know you've seen it kind of pop up in
57:2957 minutes, 29 secondsRenaissance art and literature and um so I do think that it is a physical object.
57:3757 minutes, 37 secondsUh it is a craft made of some material that looks metallic to me but I you know
57:4657 minutes, 46 secondsI there's no way to run you know material analysis on something that was only caught on a on a piece of film. Um,
57:5457 minutes, 54 secondsbut I think it was a craft powered either by the highest
58:0258 minutes, 2 secondsuh top secret military thing at the time, like you know, it was either like
58:0858 minutes, 8 secondspart of some top secret government uh program where they were using technologies that we don't truly even
58:1758 minutes, 17 secondsunderstand today or it's it is a
58:2258 minutes, 22 secondsuh a disc vehicle uh that you know could be from outer space or it could be you
58:3058 minutes, 30 secondsknow a transmedium craft that is popping in and out of different realities.
58:3558 minutes, 35 secondsThere's a lot of a lot of things that it could be and I think that's one of the most thing you know intriguing things
58:4158 minutes, 41 secondsabout the photo is like you know as awesome as the photo is as clear as it is you know you can still look at it and
58:4958 minutes, 49 secondsyou can still daydream and you can still imagine and you can still theorize and you can um let your mind go wild with it
58:5858 minutes, 58 secondsand like you know uh there's just so many different shapes like the triangles
59:0859 minutes, 8 secondsand you know the chevrons and the discs and like um so I I think there's
59:1559 minutes, 15 secondsmultiple different kinds of crafts that we don't understand um I don't think it
59:2159 minutes, 21 secondswas military personally but you know there's room for that like it it it is
59:2959 minutes, 29 secondsand it was captured in you know a remote part of Costa Rica and uh through the jungles and like you
59:3759 minutes, 37 secondsknow in in our film Sergio tells us about being a young child and the first thing he ever saw powered by fuel was a
59:4459 minutes, 44 secondshelicopter that flew in that you know because he had yellow fever and some uh American volunteer doctors came in and
59:5359 minutes, 53 secondsand helped him and um so yeah I I think it's a real I think it's a real craft. I
1:00:021 hour, 2 secondsI don't know if it's, you know, interdimensional or from outer space or from a top secret government lab somewhere, but it's real and it's there.
1:00:131 hour, 13 secondsAnd I think even more compelling than the photo is uh spending time with
1:00:191 hour, 19 secondsSergio and hearing Emy's story and hearing Kelly's story and and really kind of listening to people's firsthand
1:00:281 hour, 28 secondsexperiences with it. Megan, anything to add to that?
1:00:311 hour, 31 secondsOh, um, personally, I think it's a saucer that, um, goes in and out of Lago. Um, and I think they have agreements with the Malaku tribe there.
1:00:421 hour, 42 secondsUm, the volcano is known as very, uh, mineralrich and I think we share the space with them literally and
1:00:491 hour, 49 secondsfiguratively. So, um, yeah, I think it's one world and we're all, you know, need to be good neighbors. So, and take care of the planet and everything here.
1:01:011 hour, 1 minute, 1 secondYeah, for sure. One person that we haven't really spoken about much is Estabban, who is kind of like the tour guide
1:01:081 hour, 1 minute, 8 secondstaking us through this whole journey throughout the film. Um, tell me a little bit about him and his background.
1:01:141 hour, 1 minute, 14 secondsI know that he's a he's a lawyer and he's also a UFO researcher. So, kind of a kind of a fun combination there. What's he like?
1:01:221 hour, 1 minute, 22 secondsHe is awesome. and we met and we got along instantly. Our first phone conversation with him when we hung up,
1:01:301 hour, 1 minute, 30 secondsMegan was like, "He answered that phone like he was expecting you to call." Like he you know, we we got in contact with him
1:01:381 hour, 1 minute, 38 secondsand he's like, "Oh, you want to hear about the Cotay photo? Well, let me tell you." And then I just then we just stopped and listened because he he's
1:01:471 hour, 1 minute, 47 secondsthis encyclopedic knowledge of the Cotay photo but is also all these different he's a lawyer by trade. He has a very
1:01:551 hour, 1 minute, 55 secondsanalytical mind. Um and he's the first one to say that he hasn't seen a UFO personally. So he doesn't know why some people see them and some people don't.
1:02:061 hour, 2 minutes, 6 secondsbut it has done nothing to dampen his enthusiasm about UFOs. And the Costa Ricans are just amazing in general.
1:02:141 hour, 2 minutes, 14 secondsThey're warm, generous, kind. Um I mean, I cannot say enough about every single person we met in Costa Rica.
1:02:231 hour, 2 minutes, 23 secondsYeah. And Estabbon is he's a lawyer by day. Uh we're we're talking about a guy who
1:02:311 hour, 2 minutes, 31 secondsliterally just the other day was doing a TED talk in TED Talk Purea in in Costa Rica. So this isn't just
1:02:391 hour, 2 minutes, 39 secondslike I said some some dude in a basement somewhere. He's he's he's on stage doing TED talks about you know the about the
1:02:481 hour, 2 minutes, 48 secondsphenomenon and like um so he really his uncle was also a
1:02:551 hour, 2 minutes, 55 secondsvery curious mind and managed to get a hold of the the negative. Um and so when
1:03:041 hour, 3 minutes, 4 secondshis uncle passed away Estabbon's aunt was like you you need to have your uncle's research materials. he would
1:03:111 hour, 3 minutes, 11 secondswant you to have them. he's you're they're yours, you know, and and so he starts digging through these photos and
1:03:181 hour, 3 minutes, 18 secondsone one he saw when he was a child and it really like sparked him and uh so he thought he was going to see that maybe a
1:03:261 hour, 3 minutes, 26 secondscouple news articles about it and then he ca he opened up the the package and there's this this contact copy of the
1:03:341 hour, 3 minutes, 34 secondsnegative and um so like now you know like he was hooked like he's like all I I got I got to do something with this.
1:03:441 hour, 3 minutes, 44 secondsThis isn't this isn't a secret for me to keep. It's it's something to share with the world. Um but he he's such a he's a
1:03:521 hour, 3 minutes, 52 secondsbeautiful soul, too. Like he uh he's very knowledgeable. He's very professional, but he's also very open to
1:04:011 hour, 4 minutes, 1 seconddifferent ideas and different um critiques of it. And uh one of the things like we had tal that isn't in the
1:04:091 hour, 4 minutes, 9 secondsdocumentary but we had talked about when uh we were shooting it is that he he does he's a doula which is a person who
1:04:181 hour, 4 minutes, 18 secondskind of spends time with people as they're getting ready to pass away. And he he's like he really is trying to find
1:04:271 hour, 4 minutes, 27 secondsstrong connections with family and friends and really, you know, his big
1:04:341 hour, 4 minutes, 34 secondsjourney of looking into the sky and and trying to find these UFOs are really part of his journey to
1:04:411 hour, 4 minutes, 41 secondsfind connections with the people around him and the people he loves.
1:04:451 hour, 4 minutes, 45 secondsInteresting. Anything notable that you guys weren't able to include in the documentary?
1:04:511 hour, 4 minutes, 51 secondsUm, you know, there's, you know, hindsight's 2020 and I'm like, "Oh, I could have said something more
1:04:581 hour, 4 minutes, 58 secondsabout that. I could have done more with the shadows here. I could have done more with that." And, you know, it's uh if if we made this film a hundred times, it would look different every single time.
1:05:101 hour, 5 minutes, 10 secondsUm, but at the end of the day, I think we made a a beautiful film. I think the message of it is really beautiful. I
1:05:181 hour, 5 minutes, 18 secondsthink spending time with Estabbon and Sergio and Emmy and Kelly and Michael, I
1:05:251 hour, 5 minutes, 25 secondsthink like like we found people who we now consider family like you know uh
1:05:331 hour, 5 minutes, 33 secondsRoberto and Pablo and our crew down there were so amazing and Darren and
1:05:401 hour, 5 minutes, 40 secondsBen, our crew here were amazing and like we really uh had a lot of camaraderie through it And uh so for me the film was
1:05:491 hour, 5 minutes, 49 secondsalready successful because it already brought us together. It it helped us you know kind of open our own worlds and our
1:05:581 hour, 5 minutes, 58 secondsown viewpoints and um so yeah there's there's a million things in in retrospect that I would have been like
1:06:051 hour, 6 minutes, 5 secondsoh maybe if we hit this point a little harder or we looked into this thing a little deeper. [snorts] Um, but at the
1:06:141 hour, 6 minutes, 14 secondsend of the day, I think uh I think it was a really good we're independent filmmakers. We did not have
1:06:221 hour, 6 minutes, 22 secondsa studio or any sort of backing. So, I think we did a great job for number one and I think we're also looking forward
1:06:291 hour, 6 minutes, 29 secondsto number two and and you know and just growing the community.
1:06:341 hour, 6 minutes, 34 secondsIs this an avenue that you guys are going to keep keep going down? Do you have a subject for the next one? Is this going to be a pattern of of UFO topics?
1:06:431 hour, 6 minutes, 43 secondsuh you know, I don't think we're necessarily limited to UFO uh documentaries. And I think that um in
1:06:511 hour, 6 minutes, 51 secondsthe next one we might open it up into like it'll it'll discuss some UFOs, but it'll also kind of really talk about those human experiences. Like I think
1:07:001 hour, 7 minutesthat's the most interesting part about all this is like the real human experiences that people have with it.
1:07:061 hour, 7 minutes, 6 secondsUm, you know, because like I said, I don't the government's going to trickle truth you to the end of time, but like Sergio Lewis will just put it on the
1:07:151 hour, 7 minutes, 15 secondstable for you. Uh, so for we've been discussing our next one. Um, there is a
1:07:221 hour, 7 minutes, 22 secondscouple ideas floating around and uh our friend lives in the the UP next to uh
1:07:311 hour, 7 minutes, 31 secondsLake Superior and he took some really awesome photos of some formations above
1:07:381 hour, 7 minutes, 38 secondsLake Superior and the same one that was in Apollo, I think it was 17, the background of Apollo 17.
1:07:471 hour, 7 minutes, 47 secondsum the the triangle shapes uh formations. So there's there's uh a lot to mine within
1:07:561 hour, 7 minutes, 56 secondsMichigan. So I think um we're going to kind of touch on some of that and and
1:08:031 hour, 8 minutes, 3 secondsreally the idea of USOS, right? because like uh we talk about them coming in and out of the Atlantic Ocean and the
1:08:111 hour, 8 minutes, 11 secondsPacific Ocean and but we're surrounded by the Great Lakes like Lake Superior.
1:08:171 hour, 8 minutes, 17 secondsLake Superior, the deepest of the freshwater lakes and it's just it's so cool like that uh that there's all these
1:08:261 hour, 8 minutes, 26 secondsstories around us. So, we'll we'll definitely tap into some of that. And um but we're we're going to keep making them because it's it's been a fun
1:08:351 hour, 8 minutes, 35 secondsjourney. It's been hard. [laughter] It's had its trials and tribulations and uh its ups and downs. Um but at the end
1:08:451 hour, 8 minutes, 45 secondsof the day, like we had a lot of fun doing it. Um it really helped us grow as
1:08:531 hour, 8 minutes, 53 secondsfilmmakers. you know, like like I said, my day job is making commercials. Uh, and when you're making a commercial, you
1:09:001 hour, 9 minutesknow, you're you're selling something and and in this format
1:09:071 hour, 9 minutes, 7 secondswhen you're really asking people for their stories. So, like you're not you're not trying to sell somebody.
1:09:131 hour, 9 minutes, 13 secondsYou're really just trying to listen. And uh as a filmmaker, I think that's that's what we kind of all strive for is to
1:09:221 hour, 9 minutes, 22 secondsmake art. Uh to make something beautiful, to tell people's story as honestly and
1:09:291 hour, 9 minutes, 29 secondstruthful as we can. And and it's really about the community around it, right?
1:09:351 hour, 9 minutes, 35 secondsBecause it's like like I dragged all my friends into this with me, you know?
1:09:401 hour, 9 minutes, 40 secondsIt's like we got to spend time with with our friends and have this great adventure. You know, it took us to Costa
1:09:481 hour, 9 minutes, 48 secondsRica and then New York and then liberal Kansas and then because of that, you know, we're going to contact in the desert and then we're going to muon conferences.
1:09:571 hour, 9 minutes, 57 secondsAdam loves the UFO festivals. He's turning into quite the [laughter] Yeah. But it's been so much fun that you
1:10:051 hour, 10 minutes, 5 secondsknow it it it's that we're definitely gonna going to throw our hat in the ring and and do another one.
1:10:121 hour, 10 minutes, 12 secondsAmazing. Well, best of luck on on your future projects. Congratulations on this one. It's honestly great. Um and it will be out by the time this episode airs.
1:10:211 hour, 10 minutes, 21 secondsSo, uh let everybody who's watching know where they can check it out.
1:10:251 hour, 10 minutes, 25 secondsYou'll see it on Apple TV. You'll see it on our own website, The Cotay Photo. Uh there will be a couple other streamers
1:10:331 hour, 10 minutes, 33 secondsthat'll be on in the short term and then um yeah, it'll it'll make its way around
1:10:411 hour, 10 minutes, 41 secondsthe internet, I'm sure. But uh yeah, you can check it out at on Apple TV and and our website.
1:10:481 hour, 10 minutes, 48 secondsMaybe they stop the time for a moment.
1:10:511 hour, 10 minutes, 51 secondsWhy they give me the permission to see Cool.
1:11:161 hour, 11 minutes, 16 secondsWell, I encourage everybody who's watching to check it out. It's It's honestly great. And uh Adam Megan, thank you so much for joining me. It was a pleasure speaking with you and
1:11:241 hour, 11 minutes, 24 secondsfascinating topic. And congratulations again. Thank you. It was so nice meeting you. Thank you for having us on.
1:11:291 hour, 11 minutes, 29 secondsYeah, we really appreciate you uh taking the time to sit and talk with us.
1:11:341 hour, 11 minutes, 34 secondsIt's my pleasure. It was it was a great it was a great pleasure to speak with you both and and I I enjoy having these conversations that really go deep on uh
1:11:421 hour, 11 minutes, 42 secondsthese aspects of of the phenomenon because I think uh it's important and um you know as we mentioned there's a lot of things that are being kind of dripfed
1:11:511 hour, 11 minutes, 51 secondsto us by the government but I think that these are the conversations that are even more useful than that and and you know really help to um reveal a little
1:11:591 hour, 11 minutes, 59 secondsbit more of the truth like one one conversation at a time. So, thank you both for the work that you're doing and I hope we can speak again. Oh, I'd love that. Thank you.
1:12:071 hour, 12 minutes, 7 secondsThank you.
1:12:081 hour, 12 minutes, 8 secondsAwesome. Thanks as usual everybody for watching and I'll see you guys next time.