Hello everybody. Welcome back to Unveiled. I'm here once again at Contact in the Desert and joining me is Mr.
0:44
44 seconds
Jeffrey Nusatelli. He is an Air Force vet, whistleblower, and disclosure advocate. Uh, thanks for joining me here today.
0:51
51 seconds
Thank you for having me, man. It's a pleasure. It's really great to speak with you. For anybody watching who isn't familiar with your story, can you walk
Chapter 2: The Vandenberg UFO Incursion
0:58
58 seconds
us through the Vandenberg Air Force Base event that you described?
1:04
1 minute, 4 seconds
Yeah, sure. So, um, in October, uh, October 14th, 2003,
1:10
1 minute, 10 seconds
uh, a UFO incursion began at Vandenberg Air Force Base. So I um I was a military
1:17
1 minute, 17 seconds
police officer and at the time I was the senior patrolman assigned to Bravo flight. A flight is like a platoon. And
1:25
1 minute, 25 seconds
I I came in to work that evening to do a midship. And when I showed up to the squadron building, there was a crowd of
1:33
1 minute, 33 seconds
people waiting for me. And I thought, okay, we've had some kind of like interesting incident or something serious happened. So, uh, I
1:40
1 minute, 40 seconds
[clears throat] went over to the crowd and all at once they all start to tell me about a realworld UFO encounter that had happened at 8:45 that morning. And
1:50
1 minute, 50 seconds
very rapidly, I figured out it was not a joke. And I went over to the command center and I met with uh my counterpart,
1:57
1 minute, 57 seconds
the offgoing leadership, and they started to tell me uh the tale and what had gone on. We had uh at the time
2:06
2 minutes, 6 seconds
Vandenberg was the primary base for the national missile defense project which was uh the next iteration of the Star
2:13
2 minutes, 13 seconds
Wars program for the 80s and it was a uh top priority for President Bush. So we were doing a lot of launches. We were
2:21
2 minutes, 21 seconds
putting uh next generation technology in space systems that would give us air and space dominance for like 25 years. So this these were critical launches, very
2:30
2 minutes, 30 seconds
historic. And uh [clears throat] so what happened was uh three Boeing contractors were working on one of these missile uh
Chapter 3: A 100-Meter Red Square Over the Base
2:39
2 minutes, 39 seconds
defense sites. And one of the contractors walked out of the building and there was a huge 100meter glowing
2:46
2 minutes, 46 seconds
red square hovering right over the pad uh silently making no noise. Right? So he observes it, doesn't know what he's looking at. He calls his uh co-workers.
2:59
2 minutes, 59 seconds
They come out. They observe this craft or object. Uh and then it it began to
3:05
3 minutes, 5 seconds
silently hover or float further onto the base. It was heading east and they observed it for a few minutes and then they lost visual when it went over the
3:14
3 minutes, 14 seconds
hills. So at that point they went in and they called their control center, range control, briefed them on what had happened and
3:22
3 minutes, 22 seconds
range control uh initiated an investigation. So they they checked radar stations, weather balloons, aircraft in the area. All those reports
3:30
3 minutes, 30 seconds
came back negative, meaning there were there was nothing in the air. And at that point, they contacted the base security, the police, and uh that's how
3:39
3 minutes, 39 seconds
my friends got involved. They responded out to the site. They met with the contractors and um that's what they
3:47
3 minutes, 47 seconds
described. So my friends took statements from them, uh, came back, typed up a report, and they notified the chain of
3:54
3 minutes, 54 seconds
command, uh, including the command post, and they upchanneled all that information to higher headquarters. So
4:01
4 minutes, 1 second
that's basically, uh, what I walked into on October 14th.
4:06
4 minutes, 6 seconds
And, uh, you [clears throat] know, we we went on duty that evening. Uh, there was really no guidance. There was a lot of
4:14
4 minutes, 14 seconds
energy. People were excited. Some people were kind of nervous about it. Some people didn't believe it at all. And uh we went on duty and I went out hunting
4:23
4 minutes, 23 seconds
for UFOs. You know, I was like, you know, I'm I'm going to go find one. So, I got uh NVGs, I got some thermals and
4:30
4 minutes, 30 seconds
uh me and my buddies went out UFO hunting. And uh nothing happened really until around like midnight. And I was up
4:38
4 minutes, 38 seconds
on the command center uh with my buddies and we were talking about it and then a radio transmission came in from South
Chapter 4: “This Thing Is Coming Right At Us”
4:45
4 minutes, 45 seconds
Base at uh Space Launch Facility 4 and my friend Chaz called in over the radio and he said, "Hey, be advised. We've got
4:52
4 minutes, 52 seconds
a a very strange light over the western ocean." So I'm like, "Okay, here we go." You know, and I I grabbed my gear and I got in my car and I started to drive
5:01
5 minutes, 1 second
south. And uh while I was driving, you know, information was coming in from various other patrols on the base about they could see the light or they
5:09
5 minutes, 9 seconds
couldn't. And then at one point just all hell broke loose and the transmission started to come in very frantic,
5:16
5 minutes, 16 seconds
panicked. Um and then suddenly they they they started to scream on the radio uh
5:24
5 minutes, 24 seconds
saying, "Hey, this thing is coming right at us. It's coming right for us." And they're like, "Oh my god, now it's right here." And uh chaos erupted
5:33
5 minutes, 33 seconds
and then uh while I was driving I do remember distinctly someone called in and they said it's gone. shot off and
5:41
5 minutes, 41 seconds
then things kind of calmed down and and the transmissions became more uh you know legible and uh I got there probably 10 minutes
5:48
5 minutes, 48 seconds
later and I met with uh the five witnesses and what they described was um they noticed this light over the ocean
5:57
5 minutes, 57 seconds
and uh it caught their attention because it was you know the light was strange.
6:01
6 minutes, 1 second
It was way too bright and it was moving kind of straight like erratically, not like an aircraft. And uh everybody in
6:09
6 minutes, 9 seconds
that uh restricted area congregated at the entry control point to watch uh this light. And they said it started to
6:18
6 minutes, 18 seconds
maneuver very strangely and then it it looked like it was getting bigger and brighter and approaching.
6:24
6 minutes, 24 seconds
And then they said it rapidly rushed in and as it got very close to the position the light went out. It went dark and
6:32
6 minutes, 32 seconds
when they looked up they could see this buildingsized black mat like rectangle or square shaped object just hovering at very low altitude.
6:42
6 minutes, 42 seconds
And uh they didn't know what to do. You know they were in a panic and disbelief.
6:47
6 minutes, 47 seconds
They said it was there for you know maybe 40 seconds or a minute and then it just just shot off. I think it headed
6:54
6 minutes, 54 seconds
north. Um, so that that that's what happened that night.
Chapter 5: Repeated UFO Encounters at Vandenberg
7:00
7 minutes
And I guess to uh kind of summarize, these events kept occurring. Uh, and we had multiple incidents where these
7:08
7 minutes, 8 seconds
objects would come right up to a rocket on the launch pad and do something uh very close and then they would fly away.
7:16
7 minutes, 16 seconds
So whatever we were dealing with uh were it was interested in the technology but we also had incidents during that time
7:24
7 minutes, 24 seconds
frame where they would just come and hover over people like somebody in a patrol car or a truck. Same thing. They
7:31
7 minutes, 31 seconds
would come hover for a few moments and then it would shoot off. So uh over the the next few months this kept happening.
7:39
7 minutes, 39 seconds
Well let me back up a bit. Um, between October 14th and October 31st, uh, we had another encounter where my
7:49
7 minutes, 49 seconds
friend Grant Best was, uh, he was stationed on a security patrol near the flight line and the same thing happened.
7:56
7 minutes, 56 seconds
Another strange light. They call it in, the thing's acting erratically, not like an aircraft. And then again, it looks like it was rapidly approaching the
8:04
8 minutes, 4 seconds
runway to land. So they called it in as an unannounced aircraft arrive which is basically the most you know serious
8:12
8 minutes, 12 seconds
thing you can have. You cannot have unknowns landing on your installation.
8:16
8 minutes, 16 seconds
So they called that in that triggered an armed response. Everybody rushed to the flight line to mitigate whatever the the threat was. And Grant said uh the thing
8:25
8 minutes, 25 seconds
just rapidly approached. It came right down on the flight line and either landed or hovered at low altitude. Uh
8:33
8 minutes, 33 seconds
there was a tree line between them and it and it was very bright, but it was another massive like square object and
8:40
8 minutes, 40 seconds
it looked tiered uh like a inverted pyramid on the bottom and he could make out some detail and structure but he
8:48
8 minutes, 48 seconds
said it was only there for a moment like maybe 5 seconds or 10 seconds and uh and then it just it shot off at light speed and vanished you know into the night.
8:59
8 minutes, 59 seconds
So events like this kept occurring over, you know, the next few months. Um, and
9:06
9 minutes, 6 seconds
the thing was we we never got any guidance down on what to do, how to mitigate it, how to deal with it, you know, what any kind of protocols we
9:14
9 minutes, 14 seconds
should put in place. We just got nothing down from headquarters. We just kept reporting it up to chain of command and
9:21
9 minutes, 21 seconds
um, no guidance ever came down. And eventually after a few months uh it it kind of petered out and then over
9:30
9 minutes, 30 seconds
intervening years we would have you know um more activity here and there.
9:37
9 minutes, 37 seconds
Uh and then in 2005 I uh well let me backtrack a bit. Um during that entire
Chapter 6: Jeff's Own UFO Sighting
9:43
9 minutes, 43 seconds
time I never got to see any of the objects. like I would get there right after, you know, the thing left and I was desperate, you know, I'm like,
9:52
9 minutes, 52 seconds
"Please, you know, let me let me see what's going on here." And, uh, I
9:59
9 minutes, 59 seconds
finally got my wish in 2005 at Vandenberg. Uh, by this point, I was the non-commissioned officer in charge of the the base law enforcement program.
10:08
10 minutes, 8 seconds
So, I was in a leadership position and I had had a party and uh, the party had died out. [clears throat] My wife at the
10:16
10 minutes, 16 seconds
time had gone to bed and I was in the backyard with two of my my good friends, co-workers, uh, Brandon and Phoenix Cornwell and we were just sitting around
10:25
10 minutes, 25 seconds
the fire drinking and uh, we were telling stories about these UFOs and Brandon was telling me a story about his
10:32
10 minutes, 32 seconds
father's UFO incident uh, that occurred while his dad was in the Navy.
10:38
10 minutes, 38 seconds
And we're having this very deep conversation and Phoenix kept, you know, looking over her shoulder and finally she said, you know, do you guys see that
10:46
10 minutes, 46 seconds
light? And we were like, what light? We got up around the fire and looked and initially it looked like a a satellite moving at, you know, extreme altitude,
10:56
10 minutes, 56 seconds
but the light was weird again. It was this like strange scintillating uh multicolored light and it was pulsing.
11:05
11 minutes, 5 seconds
there was this rhythmic like almost heartbeat pulse to it and we'd never seen anything like that. So, we're trying to parse out like what are we
11:13
11 minutes, 13 seconds
looking at? Maybe it's an atmospheric effect or or something. And then it and then it performed for us. It it
11:20
11 minutes, 20 seconds
maneuvered like a butterfly like it fluttered around the sky and we're all like whoa, you know, and then we knew, okay, this is another we're having an
11:28
11 minutes, 28 seconds
experience now. Mhm. [clears throat] And um over a few minutes the object kept descending and getting brighter and and here and there it would just vanish.
11:39
11 minutes, 39 seconds
You know, we we'd be watching it and then would just be gone. We're like, what happened to it? And then it would reappear in another area and then kind of dance around and and come down and
11:48
11 minutes, 48 seconds
was getting bigger and brighter and we were getting more, you know, excited and and a little bit freaked out. And then
11:56
11 minutes, 56 seconds
eventually a after it had disappeared one time, it reappeared and it was like 200 feet over my house and it looked
12:04
12 minutes, 4 seconds
like a solid ball of like opaque white light and it looked solid. It looked structured like we could see the curve
12:12
12 minutes, 12 seconds
but it wasn't radiating any light like it wasn't lighting up my yard or the roof. And uh you know we were just in awe and disbelief just staring at it.
12:24
12 minutes, 24 seconds
Uh, and then it vanished and uh, you know, we were all like, "Oh my god, what happened? Where'd it go?" And I I thought, "Okay, just keep your eye on
12:32
12 minutes, 32 seconds
that patch, you know, just keep looking." And a few seconds later, it reappeared and it had moved north like
12:39
12 minutes, 39 seconds
to my right. We were facing west and it had gone up a bit in elevation.
12:44
12 minutes, 44 seconds
And uh, when it popped into view, for some reason, I was staring right at it.
12:49
12 minutes, 49 seconds
So my my head had tracked a little bit and I I said, "Oh, there it is." You know, in Brand of Phoenix, we're looking
12:56
12 minutes, 56 seconds
at it again and a few seconds went by and then it just gently like accelerated and went up in altitude and it kept
13:04
13 minutes, 4 seconds
accelerating. It didn't shoot off like all the other descriptions and it just continued to do that and we watched it
13:11
13 minutes, 11 seconds
for like maybe 40 seconds or maybe a little bit longer and we eventually watched it go all the way up into the stars and vanish from view
13:20
13 minutes, 20 seconds
and uh you know I went and I picked up the phone like 1:00 in the morning I I said hey man you guys are not going to believe this but here's what happened
13:28
13 minutes, 28 seconds
and they're like oh my god you know so that was it. So, of all these craft that appeared um over the base,
Chapter 7: What Did These Objects Look Like?
13:38
13 minutes, 38 seconds
you you described a lot of them as being like rectangular or square or angular in nature. Did they all share similar characteristics?
13:46
13 minutes, 46 seconds
Yeah. Uh we had, you know, the square shaped or the rectangular shaped and we had one triangle that I'm aware of and then my
13:53
13 minutes, 53 seconds
orb. Uh the characteristics they shared, there's never noise. Um and and basically like you know what
14:02
14 minutes, 2 seconds
everybody says there's no propulsion, no visible you know flight controls, no wings and things like that. So they all shared that and then the you know the
14:10
14 minutes, 10 seconds
strange way they could maneuver and the other thing uh the commonality that I kind of focused on was that uh it seemed
14:19
14 minutes, 19 seconds
that there was a performance aspect to it. So the thing would get your attention and then people would pay attention to it and the longer you paid
14:27
14 minutes, 27 seconds
attention to it and tried to figure out what you were looking at at some point it would perform for you. It would let you know without any doubt like I am
14:35
14 minutes, 35 seconds
anomalous like and that seemed to be the major pattern like it was it was uh
14:42
14 minutes, 42 seconds
announcing itself attracting attention and then performing for us. So, I think that's probably the most to me
14:49
14 minutes, 49 seconds
important, you know, characteristic of all the uh the events.
Chapter 8: How Did the Military Respond?
14:54
14 minutes, 54 seconds
So, you guys filled out reports on all of these incidents, sent them up the chain of command, nothing happened, nothing, nobody got
15:01
15 minutes, 1 second
back to you. What what should have happened in that situation? In a situation like that, you would expect um
15:07
15 minutes, 7 seconds
at less absolute minimum uh guidance on how to respond because we have a checklist for almost every conceivable
15:15
15 minutes, 15 seconds
thing that could go wrong or occur. And so typically if we run into a novel situation, you know, we we would get together and
15:24
15 minutes, 24 seconds
have a working group and try to come up with a checklist like protocols on how to deal with whatever the situation is. And you have that's a critical skill.
15:34
15 minutes, 34 seconds
and and thing you need to do in war fighting because you're going to run into, you know, novel ways of of the
15:41
15 minutes, 41 seconds
enemy trying to infiltrate or attack or things like that. Um, but none of that happened and there were no formal, as
15:49
15 minutes, 49 seconds
far as I know, like working groups or meetings about, you know, let's get together and sit down and and come up with, you know, procedures. What do we
15:58
15 minutes, 58 seconds
do when these show up? That never kind of happened. And I and I think I know in my chain of command um literally no one
16:06
16 minutes, 6 seconds
knew what to do about it. You know, we had discussions on our flight like what do we do? And it's like I don't know what to do. You know, I have no idea how
16:14
16 minutes, 14 seconds
to deal with this situation. And that's very uncomfortable, you know, because we're in charge of of protecting the base and the personnel and we're expected to
16:23
16 minutes, 23 seconds
perform and we had no idea, you know, how to respond.
16:28
16 minutes, 28 seconds
The only thing I told my troops at at at the time was don't shoot at it unless you feel like your life's in danger.
16:35
16 minutes, 35 seconds
Like don't take a pot shot at.
16:38
16 minutes, 38 seconds
What were people talking about privately during this time? Like what were the what were the conversations like amongst the people on the ground?
17:21
17 minutes, 21 seconds
Is there any sort of stigma in the military about this? Like do do you feel that uh
17:56
17 minutes, 56 seconds
It was a sensitive period around that of the base at that time. You guys were working on on on sensitive things. Was that did that enter the conversation?
18:04
18 minutes, 4 seconds
Was there concern about that?
18:28
18 minutes, 28 seconds
I imagine if it was something that could be identified as maybe like a a drone or some adversarial piece of technology, the response would have been quite different.
18:37
18 minutes, 37 seconds
Oh yeah.
18:38
18 minutes, 38 seconds
What do you think would have happened in that in that scenario?
19:02
19 minutes, 2 seconds
You mentioned that with the the first object that was spotted, uh, you consulted with, you know, other, uh,
19:09
19 minutes, 9 seconds
data points in the area, you know, air traffic control and stuff like that, and nothing was identified as being in the sky at that time. Was that the case every time?
19:27
19 minutes, 27 seconds
So, what does that tell you about these objects themselves?
Chapter 9: Why Jeff Decided to Speak Out
19:41
19 minutes, 41 seconds
And so, you held on to this information for a long time. What made you decide to speak up about it?
Chapter 10: Why Military Witnesses Stay Silent
22:34
22 minutes, 34 seconds
What do you think is the primary thing that holds military witnesses back from from speaking up?
23:20
23 minutes, 20 seconds
Is it more of like a reputational thing or are there career implications at risk also?
Chapter 11: Government UAP Releases
24:23
24 minutes, 23 seconds
Yeah, those are all positive signs to you. The DO drops that we've gotten recently.
24:27
24 minutes, 27 seconds
Um, what do you think about those particularly
25:31
25 minutes, 31 seconds
Yeah, there's absolutely no analysis attached to any of these things and a lot of the, you know, the metadata is blocked out. There's all kinds of things
25:38
25 minutes, 38 seconds
redacted. Um, so yeah, it really doesn't give you much context, which I guess is necessary if you want to do a proper analysis of what these are. Do you get
25:46
25 minutes, 46 seconds
the feeling that that the government is um hiding answers or lacking answers?
27:46
27 minutes, 46 seconds
It's true. Attention spans are getting shorter and shorter and the news moves so fast that, you know, it's often on to the next thing. So, you don't really
27:54
27 minutes, 54 seconds
have to address anything because there will always be a new shiny object.
Chapter 12: UFOs, UAPs and the New Jersey “Drones”
28:00
28 minutes
The It was interesting that uh New Jersey situation because they chose to label it as drones rather than you know UAPs which I imagine was intentional.
28:11
28 minutes, 11 seconds
Yes.
28:12
28 minutes, 12 seconds
And even the change in terminology to UAPs is indicative of like a different way of thinking about these things. Um
28:20
28 minutes, 20 seconds
is that an effort to reduce the stigma from you know UFO to UAP?
29:12
29 minutes, 12 seconds
What do you think the deeper reason is for that? Is it to is there an intention to move people away from the the alien
29:19
29 minutes, 19 seconds
um you know perspective that because you know NHI is another term that's been thrown around even in Congress. So, what
29:26
29 minutes, 26 seconds
message are they trying to send people about what the origins of these things could be?
30:42
30 minutes, 42 seconds
and they're not prepared for that, right? How much do you think Congress really understands what's going on here
Chapter 13: What Does Congress Really Know?
30:52
30 minutes, 52 seconds
with this
31:56
31 minutes, 56 seconds
when you testified at the UAP hearing.
31:59
31 minutes, 59 seconds
Are there any questions that you wished they would have asked you?
Chapter 14: Are UAPs a National Security Threat?
32:52
32 minutes, 52 seconds
It's often framed as a national security issue and having been through the experiences witnessing the things that you've seen. Yes, you know, these craft
33:01
33 minutes, 1 second
appeared at very sensitive locations, but they didn't seem to do anything. Do you feel that it's still really primarily a national security issue?
34:07
34 minutes, 7 seconds
Got it.
Chapter 15: The Reality Facing Whistleblowers
34:10
34 minutes, 10 seconds
Do you think the public has a misunderstanding about how hard it is for whistleblowers to come forward if they have information?
Chapter 16: Secrecy and Accountability
36:15
36 minutes, 15 seconds
How much of the secrecy do you think is a result of the fact that some people would have to
36:24
36 minutes, 24 seconds
be accountable for things that they've done to maintain the secrets that may may not have been either, you know, legal or, you know, they may have done
36:33
36 minutes, 33 seconds
things that, you know, they might have to stand up for.
37:11
37 minutes, 11 seconds
In your view, can proper disclosure ever happen without people those people being held accountable?
Chapter 17: What Are These Craft?
37:43
37 minutes, 43 seconds
Do you have any personal thoughts on what these craft might be, where they're from, what they're doing?
Chapter 18: Could Another Country Reveal the Truth?
39:27
39 minutes, 27 seconds
Do you think that there's any chance that um another nation might step forward and release some sort of like bombshell information or does this
39:35
39 minutes, 35 seconds
really rest in the hands mostly of the United States to make that that move?
40:11
40 minutes, 11 seconds
So another part of the you know conversation is also you know if if part of it is an admission of you know not knowing what some of these things are
40:20
40 minutes, 20 seconds
then it may send bad signals to adversarial countries or you know you don't want to be place yourself in a position of weakness right um how much
40:28
40 minutes, 28 seconds
of a factor do you think that is
Chapter 19: Could the Craft Be Human Technology?
40:53
40 minutes, 53 seconds
Could you imagine a scenario where these are actually man-made and and operated craft and Not uh anything from like a non-human origin.
Chapter 20: Religion and the UAP Question
41:57
41 minutes, 57 seconds
Do you feel like there's any uh sort of um like a religious filter being put on this by by some
42:05
42 minutes, 5 seconds
people like
42:59
42 minutes, 59 seconds
So it goes beyond just raw data and and fact.
43:38
43 minutes, 38 seconds
the 4-minute mile thing.
Chapter 21: Reverse Engineering UFO Technology
44:09
44 minutes, 9 seconds
What do you think about the accounts of uh reverse engineering um you know programs and such? Because you know if
44:17
44 minutes, 17 seconds
those stories are true, if you listen to people like like Bob Lazar talk about um the things that he's claimed to have have been a part of we may have for a
44:26
44 minutes, 26 seconds
long time been seeing like try trying to understand the technology that that we've seen and and kind of you know do
44:35
44 minutes, 35 seconds
exactly what you describe like we know that it's possible now let's try to do it.
45:33
45 minutes, 33 seconds
Well, when you put it like that, it seems that, you know, whatever these things are, one could argue that they're in charge of our planet.
45:44
45 minutes, 44 seconds
So, that we covered a lot of stuff. Thank you so much for your time, Jeff.
45:48
45 minutes, 48 seconds
great to meet you and speak with you and hear your story firsthand because I've been following since you testified and it's really fascinating and thank you for coming forward.
45:57
45 minutes, 57 seconds
It's important. All right, thanks everybody.