0:00
0 seconds
where he saw an object on sonar that approached their submarine with all the characteristics of an incoming Russian torpedo and they had trained for these
0:08
8 seconds
kind of encounters. And so they ended up going deep and accelerating away from the threat and it did not make them feel very comfortable. They went to general
0:15
15 seconds
quarters, they did all these protocols and uh and then this object stopped.
0:20
20 seconds
This is really a monumental change where we're acknowledging a new reality and that's uh again I think that's not
0:28
28 seconds
anything the government has a right to at all. There's going to be a critical mass of public interest. They're going to demand their legislators, their
0:38
38 seconds
elected representatives tell them what they want to know.
0:42
42 seconds
Hello everybody. Welcome back to Watch Mojo's Unveiled podcast. I'm your host Rob and my guest today is Tim Galedet.
0:49
49 seconds
He is an oceanographer and retired Navy Rear Admiral and he joins me today to talk about UAPs and USOs and we'll see
0:57
57 seconds
how many more acronyms we can fit into the episode, but we'll be talking about all that good stuff. Tim, thank you for joining me. It's great to be here, Rob. Thank you.
Chapter 2: Guest background
1:05
1 minute, 5 seconds
So, [snorts] you have kind of a unique perspective as somebody who studies the oceans, oceanography background, experience in the Navy. So, what can you
1:14
1 minute, 14 seconds
tell us about your kind of field of expertise where uh as it pertains to unidentified phenomena in the oceans?
1:22
1 minute, 22 seconds
Um, tell us a little bit about your background for those who might not be aware or have seen you on other podcasts.
1:29
1 minute, 29 seconds
Sure, Rob. Yeah. Well, so first of all, I grew up in Southern California and my dad had served in the Navy and so I had
1:37
1 minute, 37 seconds
a little bit of that influence in my upbringing and um they kind of combined where my going to the beach and being a competitive swimmer and enjoying surfing
1:46
1 minute, 46 seconds
and body boarding as well as uh uh my dad again service. They sort of converged for me to basically want to go
1:54
1 minute, 54 seconds
to the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland, study oceanography, and then get commissioned and become an oceanographer in the Navy because I just
2:02
2 minutes, 2 seconds
fell in love with the ocean as a as as a young person and um and my time in the water and uh and my fascination with
2:09
2 minutes, 9 seconds
just the mysteries of the deep, if you will, uh led me to want to study it. I wanted to study the ocean and work on it. And what better way to do it than to
2:17
2 minutes, 17 seconds
become a naval officer and and specifically be a naval oceanographer.
2:22
2 minutes, 22 seconds
[clears throat] So that's that's what I did. I did that for 32 years. I was fortunate enough to rise to the rank of one star admiral and become the top
2:31
2 minutes, 31 seconds
ranked oceanographer in the Navy which also doubled as the chief meteorologist of the Navy which comes into play in our
2:38
2 minutes, 38 seconds
discussion later and the chief hydrographer. Um, so that's that's my my my background, career and interest. And
2:46
2 minutes, 46 seconds
then I got lucky enough to be picked up to go become the head of Noah, which is a the United States top ocean science
2:55
2 minutes, 55 seconds
agency, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which was a total delight for me. And uh and and before all that, I ended up getting a
3:03
3 minutes, 3 seconds
PhD in oceanography from Scripps, which is one of the top uh oceanography research institutes in the US.
3:12
3 minutes, 12 seconds
Yeah. So, that's been my uh my whole story. Uh and then if you want to get get to where UAP and UAPs in the ocean
3:21
3 minutes, 21 seconds
come into play, I can I can get to that whenever you're ready.
3:24
3 minutes, 24 seconds
Yeah. Well, totally. That's a that's a big part of why why you're here because in recent years, you've kind of become a key figure in the UFO community. And uh
Chapter 3: First encounters
3:33
3 minutes, 33 seconds
when when did you first discover in your career that there were anomalies in the ocean that nobody could understand?
3:40
3 minutes, 40 seconds
Yeah. Well, I have I'm not a direct witness, but first off, one of my points in the career tours in the Navy was
3:49
3 minutes, 49 seconds
being the superintendent of the US Naval Observatory, which is a really cool command. It's known uh widely known to be the residence where the of the vice
3:58
3 minutes, 58 seconds
president uh and that's that's not really a part of the mission of the command. And they just happen to have a a nice house for this that was
4:05
4 minutes, 5 seconds
previously for the superintendent which I should have been in but but they over history before I got there they gave it to the vice president. So I ended up
4:14
4 minutes, 14 seconds
having my own private residence but nice old Victorian mansion. But the real mission of the observatory from its
4:20
4 minutes, 20 seconds
inception in 1845 was to catalog stars and measure their locations of brightnesses which change over time and those are used for navigation of ships.
4:30
4 minutes, 30 seconds
Uh, of course we migrated from celestial navigation to GPS navigation, but even then GPS satellites and other satellites
4:39
4 minutes, 39 seconds
still use stars as reference points uh spatially and they call that the celestial reference frame. So if you've
4:46
4 minutes, 46 seconds
ever wondered, well, if GPS tells me where I am, how do the GPS satellites know where they are? Their reference is the stars, which are relatively fixed.
4:57
4 minutes, 57 seconds
Not exactly. They the universe is expanding and they move but using stars that are so far away over time they
5:04
5 minutes, 4 seconds
don't change very much so we can use them as the reference points a lot of tech technob babble there but ultimately great command and because the mission
5:13
5 minutes, 13 seconds
was astrometry I learned a lot about astrophysics and cosmology and uh and it made me appreciate how big the universe
5:20
5 minutes, 20 seconds
is uh and and I know a lobe was on your show and he speaks brilliantly on this topic
5:27
5 minutes, 27 seconds
you know the universe. We know our galaxy has something like a hundred billion stars, which is just not even fathomable to humans to think about in
5:35
5 minutes, 35 seconds
terms of scale. And then the observable universe has potentially a trillion or more galaxies. A trillion that that there's so much space there.
5:45
5 minutes, 45 seconds
And then if you think about the look at our earth and the the proclivity of life on our earth, it's a property of the universe and it's very diverse. Yeah,
5:54
5 minutes, 54 seconds
I'm a scuba diver. I love to dive on coral reefs. coral reefs. The life on coral reefs are is so diverse just in these little enclaves and at large our
6:03
6 minutes, 3 seconds
our planet is incredible in terms of of the abundance and strangeness of different life forms. Why would it only
6:11
6 minutes, 11 seconds
be probabilistically natural to our planet? So, and again writes about this, it's actually unus
6:23
6 minutes, 23 seconds
in the rest of the universe, right? And so uh that that kind of thinking uh I I sort of arrived at as the superintendent
6:31
6 minutes, 31 seconds
of the observatory. So I was open to this topic. [clears throat] And then uh and then of course you I a lot of your listeners may know when I was a onear
6:40
6 minutes, 40 seconds
admiral. I saw the goast video before it had been declassified and released because I was my sailors were involved
6:47
6 minutes, 47 seconds
in a training exercise off the US east coast. And uh and I think many of your listeners might know about Ryan Graves,
6:55
6 minutes, 55 seconds
the Navy lieutenant who observed multiple UAPs as an F-18 pilot off the US East Coast during this exercise in
7:02
7 minutes, 2 seconds
2015, which my sailors were involved with. And I received a report about near midair collisions uh from these UAPs. So
Chapter 4: UAPs in the ocean
7:12
7 minutes, 12 seconds
it's funny. It's interesting how me and Ryan have had this parallel history and it converged later after I got out of
7:19
7 minutes, 19 seconds
the Navy and he did too uh about this topic. So that history at the observatory and then my direct
7:25
7 minutes, 25 seconds
experience as a one-star admiral seeing reports of UAPs on the Navy's classified network uh led me to to want to look
7:34
7 minutes, 34 seconds
into this. And the biggest thing I had concerns with is the safety of flight that here we go. We have these UAPs
7:41
7 minutes, 41 seconds
interacting with Navy F18s causing almost near near midair collisions and because of their overclassification, no
7:49
7 minutes, 49 seconds
one was speaking up about that. And that's a problem. That's one of many problems about this issue. And that didn't sit well with me. That
7:57
7 minutes, 57 seconds
overclassification was leading and still is by the way to commercial flight safety issues. Um the under sea aspect
8:05
8 minutes, 5 seconds
of that came a lot later as I began to speak out about it and I started receiving reports and seeing uh evidence
8:13
8 minutes, 13 seconds
of uh their occurrence in the oceans, right? And so when this term UAP was first coined, it was referring to
8:23
8 minutes, 23 seconds
unidentified aerial phenomena initially and then it kind of changed over time uh and morphed into unidentified anomalous
8:31
8 minutes, 31 seconds
phenomena and that was because there were these objects also seen in the oceans and potentially coming in and out
8:38
8 minutes, 38 seconds
of the ocean. And now we have this other term USOS or unidentified submer submerged objects uh which is its own kind of classification for stuff that's
8:47
8 minutes, 47 seconds
seen in the ocean. And so can you break us down uh break down the distinction between the two if there is any? Is this like one um continuous phenomenon that
8:56
8 minutes, 56 seconds
kind of extends from the skies into the oceans or are they regarded as two separate things? What are the main differences there?
9:02
9 minutes, 2 seconds
Yeah, different terms for the same thing.
9:05
9 minutes, 5 seconds
Yeah. And there is wide reporting about the this phenomena in the oceans and and
9:12
9 minutes, 12 seconds
uh uh showing or demonstrating transmedium travel going in and out of the ocean etc. Um and vice versa and
9:19
9 minutes, 19 seconds
that's and there's some really great resources here. Uh I I would recommend your readers look at uh Richard Dolan's
9:27
9 minutes, 27 seconds
book, the a history of USOs and he just goes through a number of eyewitness accounts and it's he he goes into log
9:35
9 minutes, 35 seconds
books from ships and it's it's again not authoritative data if you in terms of but but it's reports and it's and
9:44
9 minutes, 44 seconds
they're the numbers are impressive. It's just it's obviously not a new thing and uh in fact um you go back to Columbus's
9:53
9 minutes, 53 seconds
expedition and he witnessed UAP. So uh that that's so I recommend looking at that. Uh, of course, what I care about
10:01
10 minutes, 1 second
is really the firsthand and data uh that we have and and one that comes to mind and it's really irrefutable is the USS
10:09
10 minutes, 9 seconds
Omaha in 2019, a Navy ship off Southern California observed an object that uh
Chapter 5: Sonar anomalies
10:16
10 minutes, 16 seconds
again would just not exhibit the kind of characteristics of any known aircraft in our inventory. It was circular in shape.
10:24
10 minutes, 24 seconds
It was recorded on infrared and uh and I know the I know one of the watch standers testified in front of Congress
10:32
10 minutes, 32 seconds
after later. His name was Alex Wiggins and he uh um he was the one who sent me information about this video. And when
10:39
10 minutes, 39 seconds
he saw me testify in front of Congress in 2024, he called me and said, "I want to tell you more about what I saw." And and so that was an object that was that
10:48
10 minutes, 48 seconds
again didn't look like anything we know or have. And it went into the water. And that that's pretty well known out there.
10:53
10 minutes, 53 seconds
And I think some of your listeners might know Jeremy Corbel and he is he is the one who leaked that video. And then
11:01
11 minutes, 1 second
subsequently Alex Wiggins testified in front of Congress as I mentioned and then he had other other video from another deployment on another ship in
11:10
11 minutes, 10 seconds
the same region of UAP operating all around the Southern California region.
11:14
11 minutes, 14 seconds
So, uh, that's a really interesting development, by the way, because the more I speak out, the more former Navy
11:22
11 minutes, 22 seconds
and even current Navy sailors and military personnel are coming forward to say, "Here's what I saw." And, and I'll
11:30
11 minutes, 30 seconds
let you know, some of these I've talked about during my hearing and others I have not. um one submariner who uh is
11:37
11 minutes, 37 seconds
retired now from the Navy or he left the Navy actually as a lieutenant now he's now he's a engineer and he shared a really interesting story he was on a
11:46
11 minutes, 46 seconds
ballistic missile submarine in 1980s in the North Atlantic and this is the one I I talked to about during my hearing where he saw an object on sonar that
11:55
11 minutes, 55 seconds
approached their submarine with all the characteristics of an incoming Russian torpedo high closing rate and um constant
12:04
12 minutes, 4 seconds
bearing, decreasing range, and they had trained for these kind of encounters.
12:07
12 minutes, 7 seconds
And so they ended up going deep and accelerating away from the threat, and they they went down as deep near the
12:14
12 minutes, 14 seconds
crush depth of this sub, which was a very older sub, and it did not make them feel very comfortable. They went to general quarters. They did all these
12:21
12 minutes, 21 seconds
protocols and uh and then this object stopped and went behind their
12:28
12 minutes, 28 seconds
[clears throat]
12:28
12 minutes, 28 seconds
the stern of the the submarine and followed them for a time and then exited the area rapidly and and it it just left
12:35
12 minutes, 35 seconds
an impression on them that decades later he called me after my fir my hearing or when actually after some of my speaking
Chapter 6: Submarine incidents
12:44
12 minutes, 44 seconds
out about this to say here's what I saw and we couldn't explain it and they were told not to talk about about it. And that's not the only one. I had another
12:53
12 minutes, 53 seconds
enlisted submarine crew member tell me about a similar event where they did a similar evasive maneuver. They called
13:01
13 minutes, 1 second
emergency deep dive uh because of an object rapidly closing and coming close to them. And and they were told that it
13:09
13 minutes, 9 seconds
was actually a very false uh narrative that it was a they had to go near a shipping lane to
13:17
13 minutes, 17 seconds
avoid an undersea um mountain, a seammount, and they came near a surface
13:24
13 minutes, 24 seconds
vessel and had to dive deep, which is uh really um I think the the the the leadership on the submarine gave them a
13:32
13 minutes, 32 seconds
pretty pretty shaky narrative there because our submarines don't go anywhere. where and this was a ballistic missile submarine anywhere close to
13:41
13 minutes, 41 seconds
shipping lanes. They have their own operating areas that are way the hell out of anywhere else because of the nature of what they do.
13:48
13 minutes, 48 seconds
And so that that was something that was highly unusual. And then I think one of the more interesting examples is I had a
13:57
13 minutes, 57 seconds
very credible Navy retired Navy captain come to me and and and what's great about these stories is these people are
14:05
14 minutes, 5 seconds
all legitimate and and they've come out because they they view me as someone trustworthy like them, a former Navy uh
14:14
14 minutes, 14 seconds
officer and or at least leader. And this guy, so he's a captain. He flew, he was a pilot. He flew in P3s or acoustic
14:21
14 minutes, 21 seconds
intelligence aircraft and finds submarines since been replaced by the P8. And he told me about uh after he
14:30
14 minutes, 30 seconds
first of all he had a UAP encounter in uh the Iceland area, the Greenland
14:36
14 minutes, 36 seconds
Iceland UK gap. They were flying and uh and they were uh they were working with a frig a navy frigot to do anti-ubmarine
14:46
14 minutes, 46 seconds
search and uh and they were trailed by an aircraft that should not have been there. They were in an area where you
14:53
14 minutes, 53 seconds
don't see commercial aircraft and and I mean and long range from airfields and they were trailed for a long time by
15:00
15 minutes
some object they had on air search radar and they didn't know they just couldn't explain it. they didn't have radiocoms and with the with the object and they
15:09
15 minutes, 9 seconds
just didn't know what that was. So that was his first experience. Then decades later he got out of the Navy and worked as an acoustic intelligence specialist.
15:17
15 minutes, 17 seconds
So he was working on these civilian ships the Navy uses to uh search for submarines and they have very powerful
15:26
15 minutes, 26 seconds
sonars. They have an active sonar they call low frequency active and they have a passive sonar and and we use these in
15:33
15 minutes, 33 seconds
concert with the Navy's military ships and aircraft that to search for submarines and they do exercises and
15:41
15 minutes, 41 seconds
they do real world events and off uh the western Pacific area near Japan there
15:48
15 minutes, 48 seconds
were two incidents that were anomalous and basically uh what happened is they had these very strong
15:57
15 minutes, 57 seconds
hits on their active sonaruh of the ship. And he was a civilian tech on the ship. And uh and when you get a these
16:04
16 minutes, 4 seconds
are really high decibel sonars. When you get a loud return echo, it's it's not a whale. Whales don't do that. They're
16:13
16 minutes, 13 seconds
soft tissue animals. It's it's not a school of fish. It's if you get a strong acoustic hit at high decibel levels, it
16:22
16 minutes, 22 seconds
is something. It is. And usually it's a hard large metallic something and he he rece and and they're used to
16:30
16 minutes, 30 seconds
this. They they train they've trained with US submarines. They get a hit. Oh, that's obviously this class of US submarine when they're training. And
16:37
16 minutes, 37 seconds
then what they do is then they turn on the passive sonar to characterize the passive acoustics of the object. and and
16:45
16 minutes, 45 seconds
every object will have something like uh the propeller noise or the engineering noise of various components in the
16:53
16 minutes, 53 seconds
engineering plant. Even the flow noise over the hull of the submarine all those passive signatures are uh we we know uh
Chapter 7: Acoustic signatures
17:02
17 minutes, 2 seconds
we know and have characterized for our submarines and adversary submarines and and it's like fingerprints. You can
17:09
17 minutes, 9 seconds
basically with the passive sonar after getting a strong active hit and finding generally where they are, you can get
17:16
17 minutes, 16 seconds
that passive signature and go, "Ah, it's a Russian Aula or a USLA class." And so
17:24
17 minutes, 24 seconds
twice he did this and they had no passive hits. So they got a large echo and then they had no passive signature.
17:32
17 minutes, 32 seconds
And and so this might sound really wonky to people, but this guy had done this job, this acoustic intelligence job for
17:39
17 minutes, 39 seconds
decades in the Navy, and he had no way to explain it.
17:43
17 minutes, 43 seconds
Well, what does that say about the nature of the the object of what it was that there was no passive hit afterwards?
17:49
17 minutes, 49 seconds
Well, so right, so what are the other reports we've seen, Rob? Uh, of course, Lou Alzando has been on talking about these observations from overhead assets,
17:59
17 minutes, 59 seconds
uh, satellites and drones of large objects under the surface moving at high rates of speed. Do they have do they
18:07
18 minutes, 7 seconds
somehow have an ability to mask their signature acoustically or are they doing something different with space time? I don't know. But but I can tell you this,
18:16
18 minutes, 16 seconds
it is anomalous and so much so that a very seasoned acoustic intelligence former naval officer came to me and
18:24
18 minutes, 24 seconds
said, "I can't explain it." And he wanted to tell me, which which really says a lot.
18:30
18 minutes, 30 seconds
So you mentioned the trans medium travel, which is kind of one of the more perplexing characteristics that we see
18:37
18 minutes, 37 seconds
to you. Was that the most like confounding thing about these craft that they can go from air to water with seemingly no resistance and not make an impact or even a splash in some cases?
18:48
18 minutes, 48 seconds
And what does that say about the physics that they're using?
18:52
18 minutes, 52 seconds
Right. Well, it is of course we don't and you know I've said this before that it might reveal physics we don't understand, but at the same time maybe
19:01
19 minutes, 1 second
it is physics we understand and we just can't engineer it.
19:04
19 minutes, 4 seconds
I don't I don't know what the right answer is but we we can't do it. That's absolutely certain. Uh and so yeah, it says that we are obviously lacking in
19:12
19 minutes, 12 seconds
our ability to engineer and explain this kind of behavior. Of course uh we shouldn't be
19:20
19 minutes, 20 seconds
surprised uh after the Nimmits incident for example when you see the high rates of speed almost instantaneous
19:27
19 minutes, 27 seconds
acceleration in the air if if there's if if these phenomena can exhibit that kind
19:34
19 minutes, 34 seconds
of [clears throat] movement it shouldn't surprise us that there's other type of movements that uh
19:41
19 minutes, 41 seconds
that we can't explain that we observe and but but yes I mean I think what's so compelling is that's technology. Uh we
19:50
19 minutes, 50 seconds
we we would do a great deal. We' invest a great deal in to have u as a nation
19:58
19 minutes, 58 seconds
because again it would give us an unmatchable undersea warfare advantage. And uh think
20:06
20 minutes, 6 seconds
about this think about okay China is rapidly working to uh outpace us in the undersea [clears throat] warfare domain.
20:14
20 minutes, 14 seconds
And if you could create some kind of transmedium torpedo uh that could operate like what we've
20:21
20 minutes, 21 seconds
observed uh with Omaha or this my my friend on this submarine in the North Atlantic. Think about how much farther ahead of our adversaries we would be.
20:32
20 minutes, 32 seconds
Think about how much that would deter China from invading Taiwan or Russia from doing whatever it wants to do in
20:40
20 minutes, 40 seconds
the Arctic. So, yes, that's very compelling.
20:45
20 minutes, 45 seconds
The other thing about the oceans is that they're mysterious enough even without any of this UAP activity. Um, how much
20:52
20 minutes, 52 seconds
of the ocean still is yet to be explored, right? So, this is a great thing and actually I want to point your readers to
Chapter 8: Ocean exploration
21:00
21 minutes
an amazing book. Uh uh there's a really fantastic author in the US named Susan
21:07
21 minutes, 7 seconds
Casey and she's [clears throat] written at length about this in in a really entertaining and interesting book called The Underworld.
21:15
21 minutes, 15 seconds
And the book is all about deep sea science and exploration. And she goes into this in a really colorful and
21:22
21 minutes, 22 seconds
descriptive way, interviewing people I know and have been friends with for decades. But [clears throat] yes, the the deep ocean, excuse me, the ocean has not been mapped uh more than about 25%.
21:36
21 minutes, 36 seconds
So the ocean seafloor, which is again, we know more about the surface of Mars and the moon than we do the ocean. And
21:42
21 minutes, 42 seconds
then the this ocean volume I don't not even 10% has been explored the remotely operated vehicles and undersea drones
21:51
21 minutes, 51 seconds
and and the like which is just absolutely crazy that we don't know that much about our planet. That's how much
21:59
21 minutes, 59 seconds
is unknown. And know I I've written about this for the Soul Foundation in their first white paper, but if if you
22:06
22 minutes, 6 seconds
were a entity, a civilization, what have you that did not want to be seen and you want and you were going to
22:15
22 minutes, 15 seconds
occupy our Earth for whatever reason, where would you want to be to not be seen? It would be our ocean because we don't know anything about it and we're
22:23
22 minutes, 23 seconds
barely in it. And and so that's a a compelling reason for uh looking more
22:30
22 minutes, 30 seconds
into the ocean. And that brings me up to a really interesting uh uh example. Uh I was I had been a member of the ocean
22:39
22 minutes, 39 seconds
studies board at the nationalmy's of science in the US. And I I brought up to
22:46
22 minutes, 46 seconds
this board and I mean I I respect them but they had really been pursuing all these very mundane ocean science
22:53
22 minutes, 53 seconds
projects and reports and studies uh that have really sort of fine-tuning things that have been done already. And so I
23:01
23 minutes, 1 second
pitched to them and I said look this is a this is an ongoing area that the US Congress and the US Department of Defense now Department of War are
23:10
23 minutes, 10 seconds
interested in. if this board wants to do something really novel, we should be researching about UAP in the ocean.
23:16
23 minutes, 16 seconds
And I gave them all these reasons. And they came back to me, and this is the premier ocean science board in the US.
Chapter 9: Attempting research
23:24
23 minutes, 24 seconds
And they didn't laugh me off the stage.
23:26
23 minutes, 26 seconds
They said, "Okay, uh, yeah, that's interesting. Well, you know, we'd be better off if you included classified
23:34
23 minutes, 34 seconds
information to get the whole picture. So maybe you should go to this other board at the nationalmy's that the naval studies board. Oh okay,
23:44
23 minutes, 44 seconds
sure. So I went to the naval studies board and the naval studies board is chaired was chaired by my former boss in
23:51
23 minutes, 51 seconds
the Pentagon, Admiral Gary Ruffhead, who was the the chief of naval operations, the highest naval officer in the country. Happened to work for him. And
23:59
23 minutes, 59 seconds
so I did I I got on his calendar. He opened it up. I I gave him a pitch. I said, "We should go look for this and we
24:06
24 minutes, 6 seconds
should sponsor a study of looking at all the information that all the US agencies that do ocean things have and see if we
24:14
24 minutes, 14 seconds
can find more about UAP in the ocean oceans." And uh and no kidding, he took
24:21
24 minutes, 21 seconds
it and he said, "I think we should do it." He and Oh, okay. Good. And then he said, "I'll tell you why. Not only
24:29
24 minutes, 29 seconds
should we know more about what we don't know in the ocean, any anomalies, but also if we study the ocean more, that means we're going to know more about it
24:37
24 minutes, 37 seconds
than in the environment really than than our adversaries, which is only a good thing. And we need that." Oh wow. So I
24:44
24 minutes, 44 seconds
had to support. The tricky thing is this this body, the nationalmies and their subordinate boards, they need funding
24:52
24 minutes, 52 seconds
from government agencies to do their studies. Excuse me. And um so that means we had to go to
25:00
25 minutes
all the ocean agencies that I wanted to work with, Noah, Office of Naval Intelligence,
25:07
25 minutes, 7 seconds
the DoD, and DIA. And of course, the policy right now is clearly non-disclosure, so none of them were willing to fund it.
25:16
25 minutes, 16 seconds
Uh so you got the door shut. That shows that there are senior people that had access and know a thing or two that
25:24
25 minutes, 24 seconds
think this is worthy of study which is significant.
25:28
25 minutes, 28 seconds
Yeah, absolutely. And I don't see why they wouldn't want to explore the oceans. I mean like you you basically
25:36
25 minutes, 36 seconds
answered a question that I had which is like why if if uh if beings are visiting earth why would they choose the oceans
Chapter 10: Concealed objects
25:45
25 minutes, 45 seconds
to explore and hiding place would be an obvious answer but if if you were looking for a particular spot to conceal
25:52
25 minutes, 52 seconds
yourself within our oceans and I'm talking about geographically or certain areas of the world where would you choose and and the reason I'm asking is
25:59
25 minutes, 59 seconds
because I'm getting at what are the chances that There are some sort of bases established here on Earth that are
26:07
26 minutes, 7 seconds
in locations that we've never been to in the ocean. And what would be the process of like exploring in a way that might enable us to discover some of them?
26:17
26 minutes, 17 seconds
Yeah, that's a tough one, Rob, because we're kind of assuming in that question that we understand how they operate,
26:25
26 minutes, 25 seconds
nature of their capabilities. So, we can't sit there and impose our own capabilities and ways of doing things on
26:34
26 minutes, 34 seconds
them and then say, "Okay, here's a good place to hide." I I did I did some work with Ben Hansen and we looked at Southern California, which has a hot
26:42
26 minutes, 42 seconds
spot for this these these observations and sightings, and we we explored the potential for these submarine canyons
26:49
26 minutes, 49 seconds
and maybe being a good place for them to navigate, etc. But that's just really speculation. We there there's no way of
26:57
26 minutes, 57 seconds
knowing because we we still don't even know the their nature intent. So where they'd be, I have no idea. We just have to look where we really just have to observe and see where we see them.
27:06
27 minutes, 6 seconds
And there's hot spots like I've said, Southern California and others. So it's it's just way too hard to say right now.
27:12
27 minutes, 12 seconds
Um and and what what is the nature of how they do it? Uh again, they they can do things that we understand transmitting travel that we can't do. So
27:20
27 minutes, 20 seconds
who knows how they hide and where they hide. Do they actually go under the seabed or is it some kind of cloaking that they do while staying near the
27:29
27 minutes, 29 seconds
seabed or even in the water column? It is just impossible to know. So we really have to just sustained observing of the
27:36
27 minutes, 36 seconds
ocean is the best way to do it. Uh with the open aperture which I've advocated for. So right now ocean scientists they're pretty targeted in what they
27:44
27 minutes, 44 seconds
want to look at. Okay, we want to look at maybe physical oceanography like the current sea state etc. Or maybe it's the
27:51
27 minutes, 51 seconds
biological oceanography, whether it be through microscopic organisms, plankton, etc., or pelagic fish, you name it. It could be the ge marine geology, the
28:00
28 minutes
seabed. And so I think the idea, what I've advocated for is opening it up and and just including anomalies as
28:07
28 minutes, 7 seconds
something not to throw on the on the on the cutting room floor, but to actually if there are anomalies and data to set
28:15
28 minutes, 15 seconds
them aside and start looking at anomalies. And that's that's really where we should be going. There's a good an interesting example in Richard
28:22
28 minutes, 22 seconds
Dolan's book. He talks about a ship called the USS Mari right after World War II that was a hydrographic ship like
28:28
28 minutes, 28 seconds
the ships I've served on that job was to measure the seafloor depth beimemetry and make charts of the seafloor, update
28:37
28 minutes, 37 seconds
charts because we don't know much about the seabed. The ship was using its sonar to to look at the undersea the seabed
28:45
28 minutes, 45 seconds
and at a point in it it's uh its uh course it detected a shallow object that
28:53
28 minutes, 53 seconds
when they made a reverse course and tried to come back and and survey it again wasn't there. And it was a large object too stretching hundreds of yards.
29:02
29 minutes, 2 seconds
So where did that thing go? What was that?
29:06
29 minutes, 6 seconds
We had a pretty good understanding of things like the deep scattering layer which is from organisms in in the mid the water column and it wasn't that this
29:15
29 minutes, 15 seconds
was a very hard sonar return. So that's a that's a potential anomalous observation and that they basically
29:23
29 minutes, 23 seconds
disregarded. [clears throat] We should be start paying attention to anomalous observations.
29:28
29 minutes, 28 seconds
Do you think that there's any chance that these things might be of earthly origin and that they've they've just developed kind of in a parallel way to to humans but out of our sight?
29:38
29 minutes, 38 seconds
Uh I think there's a high chance for that and yeah and the reason is I think is and I I know some [clears throat] of your other guests have covered this but
29:46
29 minutes, 46 seconds
when you look at the mainstream narrative of our history there's so much that is ignored or at least not
Chapter 11: Earthly origins
29:53
29 minutes, 53 seconds
considered. So [clears throat] I think there's consensus that as a modern human species.
30:00
30 minutes
Sorry about that. We [clears throat] were we've been around for about 200,000 years. And then where is recorded
30:07
30 minutes, 7 seconds
history sort of pick up? It's around ancient Egypt Sumer uh you know Akad however many years. I don't I'm not a historian but what 5,000 BC.
30:19
30 minutes, 19 seconds
what the hell happened between 200,000 and and then 5,000 BC you like that like there's seriously there are things there
30:28
30 minutes, 28 seconds
and there's a really great book out there by an author named Michael Laflem called Visions of Atlantis and he
30:36
30 minutes, 36 seconds
explores the whole Atlantis uh possibility in that lens is that there's a lot of
30:43
30 minutes, 43 seconds
recorded human history that could have occurred between 200,000 and the present that We may have advanced very highly
30:50
30 minutes, 50 seconds
technologically and then maybe through often happens some kind of self-destruction or
30:57
30 minutes, 57 seconds
whatever or natural cataclysm we had to regress and mature and evol advance.
31:04
31 minutes, 4 seconds
Likewise, [clears throat] there's a great story or article out there by an author named Bernardo Castrop and he goes into
31:12
31 minutes, 12 seconds
this solarian hypothesis that even before 200,000 the earth is so old that
31:20
31 minutes, 20 seconds
because of geology there we evidence that might if if there we had evolved or
31:27
31 minutes, 27 seconds
intelligence evolved well in the past and we're 4 something billion years old as a planet. planet if
31:34
31 minutes, 34 seconds
it evolved in the past and then somehow the geological record was destroyed but maybe maybe the the society still
31:42
31 minutes, 42 seconds
exists somewhere that and that that is not a uh a wild consideration. I think
31:49
31 minutes, 49 seconds
people refute it because there's no data but to think it's not a possibility I I think is myopic.
31:57
31 minutes, 57 seconds
Yeah. Because a lot of people I mean there seems to be a lot of uh varying theories and some of them involve time
32:05
32 minutes, 5 seconds
travel and some of them involve you [snorts] know obviously uh you know inter interdimensional or you know
32:13
32 minutes, 13 seconds
across vast distances of space. But the one that I think gets the least attention is that they might originate from here. And I wonder why why that is.
32:22
32 minutes, 22 seconds
Why do you think that's e that's easier or harder for people to swallow than the other possible explanations?
32:28
32 minutes, 28 seconds
I couldn't say why, but I I think it's a fascinating possibility and and I think it's as as equal as a as as equally
Chapter 12: Manipulation of perception
32:37
32 minutes, 37 seconds
probable as again ET or uh interdimensional and I mean the interdimensional thing is we don't have the physics to explain it but how can we rule it out when you think about it?
32:50
32 minutes, 50 seconds
um our our mind and our thoughts are another dimension if you you know what I mean. So it's a
32:58
32 minutes, 58 seconds
it's a and and by the way uh there's a a lobe likes to trash talk string
33:06
33 minutes, 6 seconds
theory but it's still a mathematical concept that allows for multiple dimensions. So uh right now there's all
33:12
33 minutes, 12 seconds
I think we have a lot to learn. So these craft, they can obviously manipulate physics in ways that we aren't able to.
33:20
33 minutes, 20 seconds
Do you think that they can also manipulate our perception of them and that's maybe why it's difficult to track them or observe them properly?
33:28
33 minutes, 28 seconds
Yes, I do. And I'll I'll say that because uh even DoD funded programs have observed this and so I am a I'm a I'm a
33:38
33 minutes, 38 seconds
close colleague with Jay Stratton. Of course, [clears throat] this show that we're both on, The Age of Disclosure, has come out on Netflix, and
33:47
33 minutes, 47 seconds
he's observed this kind of phenomena on Skinwalker Ranch. And uh he'll he has a book coming out very soon about this.
33:58
33 minutes, 58 seconds
And so, I'm I'm not going to speak for him, but I think you can't have a more credible source than the former head of
34:05
34 minutes, 5 seconds
the United States UAP task force. and and and he addresses this in his book and in the film and uh and I mean that
34:15
34 minutes, 15 seconds
and I I can say this with total confidence. I work with him in the Pentagon. I was in the same organizational
34:22
34 minutes, 22 seconds
unit as him in the Pentagon, the Navy's intelligence uh division or department if you will. And and so I know we have
34:30
34 minutes, 30 seconds
all the we all the same colleagues. We all work in the same areas and and processes. and he's 100% legitimate and
34:38
34 minutes, 38 seconds
uh and I think u I think his story is is one of the more important things to be told uh in as we go forward on this topic.
Chapter 13: Transparency and security
34:48
34 minutes, 48 seconds
Absolutely. I I watched the age of disclosure really enjoyed it and shared it with several people who are close to me. Uh what did it mean to you to be
34:55
34 minutes, 55 seconds
part of such a a huge film that brings together so many credible people to talk about this?
35:01
35 minutes, 1 second
It's a great question, Rob. Thank you for asking that. Uh well, first of all, it's not really about me. Uh this whole
35:08
35 minutes, 8 seconds
whole phenomena, this topic, I [clears throat] I only came out and speak out and I'm on your show. The only reason I'm on it is I want to see the
35:16
35 minutes, 16 seconds
truth uh exposed. And for too long, the government has hid the truth from the American people. Granted, some truth
35:24
35 minutes, 24 seconds
needs to be hid in terms of national security related technology, etc. But at the same time, this is really a monumental change where we're
35:33
35 minutes, 33 seconds
acknowledging a new reality. And that's uh again, I think that's not anything the government has a right to at all.
35:42
35 minutes, 42 seconds
We're a government, we are in the United States, a government by the people, for the people, and every government really should be like that. And uh and hiding
35:50
35 minutes, 50 seconds
that nature of reality, I I don't think is uh right. And so and then and related to that are I think misdeeds things like
35:59
35 minutes, 59 seconds
hiding this from Congress in the US uh is not good. Um and so uh that's so it's
36:07
36 minutes, 7 seconds
not about me what it means to me. It mean what it means is about giving the American people and really the world the
36:14
36 minutes, 14 seconds
truth about what we know and our place in the universe that we're not alone.
36:20
36 minutes, 20 seconds
And it seems like from some of the the testimonies or the interviews in the film that there are people obviously who have classified information that they
36:28
36 minutes, 28 seconds
can't speak about. And so what do you think needs to be done next in terms of
36:35
36 minutes, 35 seconds
enabling people to be more transparent, get more of the truth out to the public? I know that there's national security concerns.
36:43
36 minutes, 43 seconds
that's been one of the major things holding people back from um you know presenting classified information. But you have also argued that there are
36:51
36 minutes, 51 seconds
national security concerns in keeping too much information from the people. So where do you stand on that?
36:57
36 minutes, 57 seconds
Yeah. Well, I I do I do think the government needs to acknowledge this [clears throat] new nature of reality.
Chapter 14: Public disclosure
37:03
37 minutes, 3 seconds
And again, I I don't know if I really want to see the government acknowledge everything it knows. Um to be honest with you, I think it's important for our
37:12
37 minutes, 12 seconds
US government and other governments together to accept that and and
37:18
37 minutes, 18 seconds
uh and disclose the the some level of the the nature of the UAP. I'll say that
37:27
37 minutes, 27 seconds
[clears throat] what I'd like to see though is and uh your audience might be familiar with the Soul Foundation. Their most
37:36
37 minutes, 36 seconds
recent meeting was in uh Italy which I went to. In my presentation,
37:41
37 minutes, 41 seconds
[clears throat]
37:42
37 minutes, 42 seconds
I talked about the fact that there are so many organizations and institutions and individuals around the world who are
37:51
37 minutes, 51 seconds
uh starting to accept this nature that UAP are are really [clears throat] legitimate in terms of an area of study
37:59
37 minutes, 59 seconds
that they're beginning to do that. And I see universities like the University of Albany and [clears throat] the University of uh or Stanford University,
38:09
38 minutes, 9 seconds
Rice University, of course, Harvard University are all looking and established research efforts into the
38:16
38 minutes, 16 seconds
phenomena and that's in the US. There are others around the world. I I believe and I think the more that we get our
38:24
38 minutes, 24 seconds
next generation to be encouraged to research the topic that shoot I gave a topic I gave a lecture at Yale
38:33
38 minutes, 33 seconds
University recently and there was a good group of people who were interested in this as well as several small colleges in Pennsylvania. And so [clears throat]
38:40
38 minutes, 40 seconds
I think that a critical mass is going to be reached in the public that's going to make it
38:50
38 minutes, 50 seconds
unavoidable for the government to acknowledge the nature of this new reality.
38:55
38 minutes, 55 seconds
I mean, we've been having congressional hearings every year for the past three years, and you participated in the the
39:01
39 minutes, 1 second
hearing in 2024 at the end of 2024. Um, so I mean that alone is something to lend a huge amount of legitimacy to this conversation.
39:12
39 minutes, 12 seconds
How did it feel, you know, testifying there uh in front of Congress? Was it a surreal feeling like I can't believe
39:20
39 minutes, 20 seconds
that I'm actually doing this? It it it seemed like um a big step forward for everybody involved.
39:26
39 minutes, 26 seconds
Well, it was a it was a great moment for the movement. I personally was not too wowed. Thankfully, I might have been the
Chapter 15: Legislative efforts
39:34
39 minutes, 34 seconds
10th or 12th time I've testified in front of Congress, so I wasn't too wowed by it. I understood the nature of it. It
39:41
39 minutes, 41 seconds
was pretty heavy, but I was ready. And then, of course, uh when the first hearing occurred with David Grush and
39:49
39 minutes, 49 seconds
Ryan Graves and David Fraver, because I support Ryan and I'm on his advisory board for Americans for Safe Aerospace, I was on the front row of that hearing.
39:59
39 minutes, 59 seconds
So, I had been prepared for this, if you will, [clears throat] but it was still meaningful nonetheless. And we have a lot more work to go. Uh, again, the UAP
40:08
40 minutes, 8 seconds
Disclosure Act did not get passed. So, um, I'm not This is a longer game that we have to keep the endurance on and and just keep pressing on.
40:18
40 minutes, 18 seconds
Right. Can you um talk a little bit about that because I've had several guests on who've discussed the UAP Disclosure Act and it was kind of like throughout the process of trying to get it passed. So, where does it stand now?
40:28
40 minutes, 28 seconds
What what's the latest on that?
40:30
40 minutes, 30 seconds
Yeah. Well, uh this was an act that would require the government to stand up a a board or panel to review what's
40:39
40 minutes, 39 seconds
known about UAP and the government and and then recommend to the president what should be disclosed to the public keeping in mind national security
40:48
40 minutes, 48 seconds
concerns and the need to address um what the public deserves to know. and and
40:55
40 minutes, 55 seconds
this has gotten high level of support in the Congress over several years. We had leader Schumer then and Senator Rounds
41:02
41 minutes, 2 seconds
sponsor it and ultimately it was never I think it was [clears throat] it was uh the goal was to get it passed with
41:11
41 minutes, 11 seconds
the National Defense Authorization Act, the US military's budget that usually gets passed all the time on time, but uh it
41:20
41 minutes, 20 seconds
got the provisions got removed from that in the in several years in a row. So right now we don't have anything yet,
41:28
41 minutes, 28 seconds
but there's still interest. There's the Senate has [clears throat] people who still care. The House has individuals
41:35
41 minutes, 35 seconds
and committees that still care and have held [clears throat] several he hearings and press events on the
41:43
41 minutes, 43 seconds
topic. So it's not dead in Congress yet, but in terms of really getting the act to require the government to disclose,
41:50
41 minutes, 50 seconds
that's still a work in progress. And I'm I'm I meet with members uh of Congress
41:57
41 minutes, 57 seconds
often to see where we can maybe reattack on this. Um not don't have any latest
42:04
42 minutes, 4 seconds
news right now. Uh but um there's a lot going on in terms of international and
42:11
42 minutes, 11 seconds
domestic uh activities that are capturing the government and the Congress's attention that's uh
42:18
42 minutes, 18 seconds
distracting from it. And I I don't know when that next I think push will be. It might be. Well, first of all, let me
42:26
42 minutes, 26 seconds
volunteer that. Uh there have been some I guess encouraging developments. Of course, we had the age of disclosure
42:36
42 minutes, 36 seconds
film released. That's getting some play in the press. Stephen Spielberg has a
42:43
42 minutes, 43 seconds
film coming out, a a fictional film based on I think real events. Uh I think
Chapter 16: Changing perceptions
42:50
42 minutes, 50 seconds
it's Do you remember the name there, Rob? It's called Disclosure Day, I believe.
42:55
42 minutes, 55 seconds
That's right. That's coming out next year or this year. Yeah.
42:59
42 minutes, 59 seconds
Uh a producer named Kazinski and I forgot what his films were. I think Top Gun, do you know him? He's got a film coming out.
43:08
43 minutes, 8 seconds
Okay. I haven't heard of that one. I'm gonna have to look into that.
43:11
43 minutes, 11 seconds
That's that's big, too. Uh and so uh and of course um I was just recently on Fox
43:18
43 minutes, 18 seconds
News with Brett Bearer his show special report with several of my colleagues in the disclosure movement and uh and he's
43:26
43 minutes, 26 seconds
widely known in the US and followed and so that's uh all of this is is really
43:33
43 minutes, 33 seconds
building awareness uh and in the country or around the world that again it might be a time where in a year five maybe 10,
43:42
43 minutes, 42 seconds
whatever it takes. There's going to be a critical mass of public interest.
43:46
43 minutes, 46 seconds
They're going to demand their legislators, their elected representatives tell them what they want to know. So,
43:54
43 minutes, 54 seconds
it's it's way beyond what it was maybe 10 years ago when everybody who did this was stigma stigmatized as being off
44:03
44 minutes, 3 seconds
their rockers. And uh I'll give you a funny example here. So, I went to a uh professional meteorological meeting uh
44:12
44 minutes, 12 seconds
the American Meteorological Society meeting two years ago or so and I saw one of my I just left Noah and I saw one
44:19
44 minutes, 19 seconds
of my uh Noah lab directors there and um we had a nice exchange and afterwards we
44:27
44 minutes, 27 seconds
shared by email some of what we were doing professionally and I added on in my email to him and he's he was a lab
44:35
44 minutes, 35 seconds
leader a director very senior guy uh and very just accomplished scientist. And I
44:42
44 minutes, 42 seconds
lastly added uh hey you might think I'm off my rocker but uh I've been doing
44:49
44 minutes, 49 seconds
this and I talked about some of my UAP research and articles and whatnot [clears throat] and um he wrote me back
44:57
44 minutes, 57 seconds
and said I don't think you're off your rocker. Let me share you this story. And what he what he shared with me is his
45:05
45 minutes, 5 seconds
part of his research involved putting instruments on a NASA highaltitude aircraft that flew up near the North
45:12
45 minutes, 12 seconds
Pole. NASA has a lot of science missions that no one hears about. Okay.
45:17
45 minutes, 17 seconds
And uh so this this this jet flew near the North Pole in an area where there are no commercial aviation routes. And
45:25
45 minutes, 25 seconds
and what the scientists said, he said, "Hey, they would usually give the pilots a video recorder to keep them awake
45:34
45 minutes, 34 seconds
basically and have them be interested in the science mission and film anything that was of meteorological interest." Okay. And at one point they saw a UAP on
45:43
45 minutes, 43 seconds
the horizon that they were following and it was I mean bright lit shouldn't have been there and there was nothing that could explain it and they filmed it for
45:51
45 minutes, 51 seconds
a while and I think it rapidly accelerated after a a period of of minutes and uh and they had that video
45:58
45 minutes, 58 seconds
and they sent it to him and said what do you think of this and he kept that and he thought because he just knew that is unusual and he had been a meteorologist
46:07
46 minutes, 7 seconds
for three decades and sadly the and he wanted to share it with me but he said oh you know I was in
46:13
46 minutes, 13 seconds
Colorado and I lost my home in this fire and the video was destroyed but uh but
46:20
46 minutes, 20 seconds
this is a very rational scientist conventional mainstream and he he of all people said no there's something there
46:29
46 minutes, 29 seconds
there which I viewed as really significant yeah and I think a lot of people would surprise you if you ask them what they
Chapter 17: UAP incidents
46:37
46 minutes, 37 seconds
really think but it's just not something that people are ready to advertise yet.
46:41
46 minutes, 41 seconds
But I think that's maybe the major change that's going to happen. It'll be become it'll become a little bit more um a little easier for people to be open
46:49
46 minutes, 49 seconds
about it rather than just, you know, having a personal interest but but closed off. Um yeah, that might be the change that we're looking for. You
46:57
46 minutes, 57 seconds
mentioned a really interesting thing about just the NASA um exploration mission to the the North Pole. Um, and it made me think that a lot of the
47:05
47 minutes, 5 seconds
hotspots that we hear about are, you know, in the Pacific, closer to the US.
47:09
47 minutes, 9 seconds
I suppose that's because of most of our capabilities to observe are based in these locations. But are you aware of
47:17
47 minutes, 17 seconds
any other um incidents or sightings that have happened like way out there like you know in the the northern part of the globe or uh south near the south pole?
47:28
47 minutes, 28 seconds
like is there any activity um away from the big uh hot spots that we typically hear about?
47:35
47 minutes, 35 seconds
Well, let's see. Rob, I I think yes is the answer. I'd have to I'd have to uh really sort of go back and look at my
47:45
47 minutes, 45 seconds
notes here. I do keep notes on all of this. Uh what's interesting, one of the things I've been working on uh with a
47:52
47 minutes, 52 seconds
researcher that you might want to have on your show, have you ever heard of Jeff Kruch? I have not, but I will note him down.
48:00
48 minutes
Jeff's an Australian U engineer and he has just been diligent in researching
48:07
48 minutes, 7 seconds
a very fascinating UAP case where during a high altitude
48:15
48 minutes, 15 seconds
nuclear burst experiment in 1962 called Bluegill Triple Prime I believe
48:25
48 minutes, 25 seconds
uh we believe there's video evidence and other evidence of of this airbururst
48:32
48 minutes, 32 seconds
downing a UAP and and then having the and the Navy ending up attempting to recover it on
48:40
48 minutes, 40 seconds
the in the Pacific Ocean. And there's quite a bit. I actually contributed to a report that we authored on this where he
48:47
48 minutes, 47 seconds
looked at log books of several Navy ships that went to try to salvage this thing, we believe. And uh and it's it's well documented. And so that that's
48:56
48 minutes, 56 seconds
something I think is really fascinating because my wife was a Navy diver and a Navy diving and salvage officer. And so
49:03
49 minutes, 3 seconds
we helped review all the logs of this Navy salvage ship that we believe tried to recover this UAP and divers were sent
49:10
49 minutes, 10 seconds
down. And so uh uh and and sure enough the the ship's movements and activities
49:19
49 minutes, 19 seconds
were very unusual and conformed to that kind of potential activity. Uh so that's one that's been well known too. By the
49:26
49 minutes, 26 seconds
way, there's a very uh highly regarded former government official named Pippa
49:33
49 minutes, 33 seconds
Mgram whose father Harold Mgram both were at high levels in the
49:40
49 minutes, 40 seconds
government at different times and and he's gone on the record uh and he had an interview with Jeff with his daughter
49:48
49 minutes, 48 seconds
stating about the validity of this this event. Uh, and so I think that's that's really fascinating and um and that's
49:56
49 minutes, 56 seconds
something to explore and you can probably find some video on that. Um, there's also an extraordinary UAP researcher who I encourage your
50:05
50 minutes, 5 seconds
listeners to uh look up. Uh, have you ever heard of Samuel Gervis aka UAP Gerb?
50:12
50 minutes, 12 seconds
Yes, I have. I enjoy his channel quite a lot. Have you had him on your show?
50:15
50 minutes, 15 seconds
I haven't spoken to him. No, you ought to do that. I'll introduce you if you want. The guy is absolutely incredible.
50:22
50 minutes, 22 seconds
He just he is just really like Jeff.
50:25
50 minutes, 25 seconds
They're just extraordinary researchers who leave no stone unturned.
50:30
50 minutes, 30 seconds
And uh and I I think people like that again are going to more and more make it so that uh it's just going to be
50:38
50 minutes, 38 seconds
unavoidable for our government to not acknowledge uh some of what it knows.
Chapter 18: Recovered materials
50:44
50 minutes, 44 seconds
Yeah. Well, I mean on YouTube, which is kind of like where I live and where I do most of my work, there is a growing kind of network of of channels that are all
50:53
50 minutes, 53 seconds
kind of exploring this and and growing and having a lot of exposure and building a lot of uh momentum when it
51:01
51 minutes, 1 second
comes to to the conversation. So, it's encouraging to see that. Um, but going back to what you said about the crash retrieval because this is something else
51:08
51 minutes, 8 seconds
that we haven't really spoken about, but you know, there's been testimony about um, actual crash retrievals. David Grush
51:15
51 minutes, 15 seconds
has spoken about it. Um, so the question is how much does the government know based on the things that they've
51:23
51 minutes, 23 seconds
recovered and what is the true understanding? Like how much could they actually reveal to us or are there still
51:30
51 minutes, 30 seconds
large information gaps that that they have? Um, and is that part of the reason for the secrecy in and of itself? What do you think about that?
51:38
51 minutes, 38 seconds
Yeah. Well, I have no firsthand knowledge of this, but I have colleagues who do, and I trust them when they say that we do have materials recovered,
51:47
51 minutes, 47 seconds
vehicles, etc. Uh, and and I that just doesn't based on my working in the government and working in classified
51:54
51 minutes, 54 seconds
programs, it doesn't surprise me uh the way this has all been compartmentalized.
52:02
52 minutes, 2 seconds
So that that that's uh again not firsthand knowledge but not surprised at all and pretty much believe that that's
52:10
52 minutes, 10 seconds
that's real. Uh and I actually there's a lot of that that we we just don't want to divulge because that would just give
52:18
52 minutes, 18 seconds
our adversaries an upper hand. Then again though, there's an information operations aspect of this because potentially we could we could divulge
52:26
52 minutes, 26 seconds
what we know and a way to make it look like uh oh that could have a really remarkable deterrent effect on countries
52:34
52 minutes, 34 seconds
like China and Russia which we want. So there there's a that's a whole thing that National Security Council games out and I've been on National Security
52:43
52 minutes, 43 seconds
Council Policy Coordination Committee meetings that that uh do that not for UAP but for other things. So uh I'm not
52:51
52 minutes, 51 seconds
going to speculate on what's happening right now, but that's a thing to consider. Um but yes, I think uh uh
52:58
52 minutes, 58 seconds
that's a real I have no doubt really zero doubt that uh we have materials and
53:05
53 minutes, 5 seconds
information and know about that. I don't know how much we know. I've not been again fully read into that. I just have colleagues who were and I trust. Uh but
53:14
53 minutes, 14 seconds
it doesn't surprise me. If you've read The Day After Roswell by Phil Corso, uh that's all highly plausible. I know that
53:22
53 minutes, 22 seconds
George Knap, I believe, was a co-author and some claimed that there was some embellishment there, but whatever. I do know with almost 100% certainty that the
53:30
53 minutes, 30 seconds
the primary elements of that book are are 100% true. And so that that just take that on board is what it is. That's
53:38
53 minutes, 38 seconds
that's significant that we ever covered materials like that. And from what I understand, if you go watch Hal Pudof's
53:45
53 minutes, 45 seconds
interview with Joe Rogan recently, and Hal is someone I respect immensely and have 1,000% trust in, he talked about
53:55
53 minutes, 55 seconds
the fact that we might have about 10 recovered craft. So uh I Hal is not one
54:01
54 minutes, 1 second
uh he was been involved and uh is very trustworthy and every other experience I
54:08
54 minutes, 8 seconds
have in the DoD makes me confirms that to be most highly likely.
Chapter 19: Quantum consciousness
54:13
54 minutes, 13 seconds
He's been very interesting and he was also in the age of disclosure documentary. um and along with Eric Davis. Both of I found those to be two
54:20
54 minutes, 20 seconds
of the most interesting people in terms of just the information that they shared because Hal Halpov is big into the the
54:27
54 minutes, 27 seconds
remote viewing the consciousness aspect of it. Um do you want to get into that a little bit? Like how how does that all
54:35
54 minutes, 35 seconds
factor in uh in your mind? like what are we looking at in terms of you know discovering more about who we
54:43
54 minutes, 43 seconds
are as humans and what we're capable of through through this phenomenon.
54:47
54 minutes, 47 seconds
Yeah. The the linkage of UAP NHI and
54:55
54 minutes, 55 seconds
telepathy remote viewing non-local information exchange if you will is quantum consciousness.
55:03
55 minutes, 3 seconds
It's uh I I don't understand it all entirely but but it it's something it's something we know that uh the
55:11
55 minutes, 11 seconds
communication between craft and NHIS operate these it seems to
55:18
55 minutes, 18 seconds
be in the same way that we we have a capacity which is limited less advanced to perform this kind of communication.
55:26
55 minutes, 26 seconds
Ultimately though, if you want to just talk right about RV remote viewing, I can tell you 100% that it's absolutely
55:35
55 minutes, 35 seconds
accurate, real, and uh I think there's a physical explanation for it based on quantum mechanics because we know from
55:43
55 minutes, 43 seconds
quantum mechanics that non-local information exchange occurs. Uh now I don't I don't of course can't get to the exact explanation about what's going on
55:52
55 minutes, 52 seconds
in our brains as transceivers you know in terms of quantum mechanical information exchange but uh my wife for
56:01
56 minutes, 1 second
example uh who's been a a teammate on this entire journey with me because I would never even gotten into this unless
56:08
56 minutes, 8 seconds
she encouraged me the first thing I in 2021 we were watching Avi Loe's Galo project because I had this experience at
56:16
56 minutes, 16 seconds
the observ observatory, the Naval Observatory, and he was leading the Harvard Center for Astrophysics. She said, "Hey, why
56:23
56 minutes, 23 seconds
don't you go ask him if you can be a research associate with him?" And I said, and she was like joking. She she didn't think I'd really do it, but I got
56:32
56 minutes, 32 seconds
his email on the internet and I wrote him an email and he said, "Tim, I'd be love to have you on." And so now I'm on this team. And um and then that just
56:40
56 minutes, 40 seconds
started the journey. And and there's there's some background that I'm not going to talk about here about other other elements of um oh uh
56:48
56 minutes, 48 seconds
nonconventional uh science and physics that led me to this journey. But ultimately uh um we
56:56
56 minutes, 56 seconds
have been on that we've been we've been working in this field and growing in our awareness and knowledge. So and and one
57:04
57 minutes, 4 seconds
component of that is remote viewing. So, actually Karen, she uh um because of
57:11
57 minutes, 11 seconds
experiences we've had, synchronicities, a lot of your audience will know what that is. I know I've seen some of your past episodes, we we know there's
57:19
57 minutes, 19 seconds
something more than what's taught traditionally. and so uh in physics and history. And so um that led her to go
57:27
57 minutes, 27 seconds
and take a course in remote viewing from one of Paul Smith uh former Army and I believe Stargate uh
57:35
57 minutes, 35 seconds
members. Uh great guy, love him. Uh his students uh has a course now. Karen took the course, got certified as this basic
57:44
57 minutes, 44 seconds
level remote viewer, and I've seen all the projects she did to do this RVing work and it is a 100% legitimate
57:54
57 minutes, 54 seconds
phenomena and uh and I mean really you can look at history of religion and know that this is not really unusual
58:02
58 minutes, 2 seconds
mediumship and these kind of again non-local information exchange and so um but it was really cool to see that in
58:10
58 minutes, 10 seconds
practice in person for me and uh and she's still moving forward advancing her certification and and and and every one
58:18
58 minutes, 18 seconds
of her hits, if you will, they get a target, they do a hit. She has really nailed it and it's nothing you can make up. It's nothing you could just get
58:26
58 minutes, 26 seconds
right because of coincidences. The protocols are too too um strict and and
58:33
58 minutes, 33 seconds
how Pudolf has demonstrated this with his SRI work.
Chapter 20: Nature of NHI
58:38
58 minutes, 38 seconds
Yeah, absolutely. It's uh it's kind of I mean at least for me hosting this podcast become kind of like a spin-off lane um off of the UAP topic where
58:47
58 minutes, 47 seconds
remote viewing is is a is a field of interest for a lot of people who are interested in the UAP phenomenon and you
58:54
58 minutes, 54 seconds
know there's clearly ties to it. Um but it also has this other implication about like what are we actually capable of and
59:03
59 minutes, 3 seconds
where do we tie into things in the universe. So it opens up all of these other spiritual and like you know existential questions about ourselves
59:12
59 minutes, 12 seconds
which is a fun rabbit hole to go down but it can be overwhelming too. So you know that that in in and of itself you
59:20
59 minutes, 20 seconds
know when we're talking about people breaking the stigma and kind of like uh embracing these these topics like there's a lot of that baggage that comes
59:28
59 minutes, 28 seconds
along with it when you really get into to everything.
59:32
59 minutes, 32 seconds
Yeah. I I wish I was better at explaining it all. Well, I mean, we're all arriving. We're all working to do that. Uh, there's some really terrific
59:39
59 minutes, 39 seconds
literature out there. Alex went at Ohio, I think Ohio State University. No, I might miss, forgive me, Alex, if I
59:48
59 minutes, 48 seconds
didn't get your association correct, but he has this really terrific book called um along the lines of of um something like quantum mind and social science.
59:59
59 minutes, 59 seconds
And he really tries to get at that explanation at one level. And there's others. Holy cow. I'm reading this book by Ingo Swan, a very famous remote
1:00:08
1 hour, 8 seconds
viewer called Penetration and he looks at that whole aspect of telepathy from a human standpoint and
1:00:15
1 hour, 15 seconds
potentially NHI standpoint. And that guy was incredibly accurate so well documented and you so you have to think
1:00:22
1 hour, 22 seconds
about whatever he wrote there was some validity there. Uh and and so yeah, it's a big journey we're on to learn more,
1:00:30
1 hour, 30 seconds
understand the nature of ourselves and reality. uh we're not quite there yet, but I think we've made great strides in the last few decades.
1:00:39
1 hour, 39 seconds
One of the other kind of standout moments uh I I just mentioned before from the age of disclosure doc was Eric
1:00:46
1 hour, 46 seconds
Davis talking about two confirmed types of beings who have been recovered to his knowledge. And in other interviews, I've
1:00:54
1 hour, 54 seconds
seen him reference up to like four or five different types, but in the film he mentioned two.
1:01:00
1 hour, 1 minute
Um, I don't know if I even have a question about that, but that to me that's just like to hear somebody like him, a a renowned physicist, say that
1:01:08
1 hour, 1 minute, 8 seconds
out loud on film, um, is kind of mind-blowing and and part of me doesn't understand why things like that don't
1:01:17
1 hour, 1 minute, 17 seconds
reach more people and get more people excited.
Chapter 21: Government compartmentalization
1:01:20
1 hour, 1 minute, 20 seconds
Yeah. Well, that's really great. So Eric's a friend of mine, and in fact, we were both uh at a panel, a House
1:01:28
1 hour, 1 minute, 28 seconds
committee sponsored science panel where we both spoke and he actually made a comment about more than two of those types of species.
1:01:37
1 hour, 1 minute, 37 seconds
And [clears throat] um yeah, why doesn't that get more attention? It's actually crazy. But I think what people need is the smoking gun. They they need to see the the dang bodies, right? And uh have
1:01:46
1 hour, 1 minute, 46 seconds
it come out there on and and and be endorsed by the White House. Yep. We have we just like we recovered not
1:01:54
1 hour, 1 minute, 54 seconds
recovered captured Maduro recently from Venezuela. They want to see okay here's the alien body there and uh and so
1:02:01
1 hour, 2 minutes, 1 second
that's that's it. Uh god who knows nowadays with sensationalist news coverage that might not even register but whatever.
1:02:10
1 hour, 2 minutes, 10 seconds
Yeah with but Eric Eric u interesting let me give you my my my relation there. I think the so Eric's
1:02:18
1 hour, 2 minutes, 18 seconds
very credible again I'm not seeing that but there's a couple things first of all I mentioned this there's such diversity
1:02:25
1 hour, 2 minutes, 25 seconds
of life on this planet I can't I just can't imagine why there wouldn't be a diversity of intelligent non-human
1:02:32
1 hour, 2 minutes, 32 seconds
intelligent life uh elsewhere or here or who knows where but again just dive on a coral reef and see all that there is sea
1:02:40
1 hour, 2 minutes, 40 seconds
an enemies and corals and reef fish and jellies it's just it's and and then you go to the Deep Sea. This is my friend
1:02:48
1 hour, 2 minutes, 48 seconds
Susan Casey's book, The Underworld, and everything looks alien. Yeah.
1:02:52
1 hour, 2 minutes, 52 seconds
So, truly, absolutely. Yes. But Eric, I think one of the most interesting things about Eric, his story, I think a lot of
1:02:59
1 hour, 2 minutes, 59 seconds
your readers will have heard of the Wilson memo. [clears throat] And so, I that really I'm drawn to that
1:03:05
1 hour, 3 minutes, 5 seconds
for a couple reasons. One is so I forgot Admiral Wilson. I don't remember his exact title. Director of Naval Intelligence. I believe I've known the
1:03:14
1 hour, 3 minutes, 14 seconds
past five directors of naval intelligence. Uh so more recent than him, but he has this sit down interview and Admiral Wilson recounts, "Hey, I
1:03:22
1 hour, 3 minutes, 22 seconds
wanted to get right into the program and they wouldn't read me in. They they said I didn't have a need to know." And I just laughed when I heard all about this
1:03:31
1 hour, 3 minutes, 31 seconds
because this is this this memo is something that Eric drafted as a from a meeting with Admiral
1:03:38
1 hour, 3 minutes, 38 seconds
Wilson who wanted to get ready in UAP NHI programs and that exact thing has happened to me. So here I was a one-star
1:03:46
1 hour, 3 minutes, 46 seconds
admiral in the Pentagon and I had sailors working at different programs and when I heard out about them uh and they were all sort of sensor programs.
1:03:55
1 hour, 3 minutes, 55 seconds
Hey, uh, I have sailors I'm I'm responsible for to to equip them and train them. Uh, I I I should be read
1:04:04
1 hour, 4 minutes, 4 seconds
into them so I can make sure I can look out for them, right? And I would go to the special access program control officers and say, "Hey, like to be read
1:04:13
1 hour, 4 minutes, 13 seconds
in." Oh, no, sir. You don't have a need to know you. That's not It's not for you. Oh, really? So some career
1:04:20
1 hour, 4 minutes, 20 seconds
bureaucrat GS whatever is telling me as a one star I don't have a need to know to help my sailors out on the south. So that whole
1:04:30
1 hour, 4 minutes, 30 seconds
experience when Wilson dealt with I've seen firsthand. So that that's nothing foreign to me and if anybody questions
1:04:38
1 hour, 4 minutes, 38 seconds
the legitimacy of that I could tell you it's 100% true and accurate that that memo.
1:04:43
1 hour, 4 minutes, 43 seconds
My gosh that must make you want to know even that much more. [laughter] Oh yeah. Exactly right. uh again this is you know and Congress is feeling the
1:04:52
1 hour, 4 minutes, 52 seconds
same way and now granted I I am still uh in a kind of debate with several folks
1:04:59
1 hour, 4 minutes, 59 seconds
uh in this whole topic area that have expertise uh uh about does the executive branch actually have the authority to keep things from Congress? They just may.
1:05:09
1 hour, 5 minutes, 9 seconds
It's it's a running debate right now. Uh and um but something that we should be asking, right? And so that there's also the this
1:05:17
1 hour, 5 minutes, 17 seconds
this wild card, you know, element to it, which is the uh third party contractors
1:05:24
1 hour, 5 minutes, 24 seconds
who might also have, you know, materials or or craft or whatnot who work with the government, but that's kind of like a a
1:05:33
1 hour, 5 minutes, 33 seconds
separate thing because they're privately owned and don't have to follow some of the same protocols probably. Um, how does that complicate things to you?
Chapter 22: Contractor involvement
1:05:44
1 hour, 5 minutes, 44 seconds
Well, it complicates things for people who want to see disclosure. It makes things perfectly great for the contractors and the government because
1:05:52
1 hour, 5 minutes, 52 seconds
now they have plaus the government has plausible deniability.
1:05:55
1 hour, 5 minutes, 55 seconds
Uh and and we're almost certain that's the route that was taken to keep keep that from Congress and I I I know enough now to know that's not
1:06:04
1 hour, 6 minutes, 4 seconds
almost it's definite. Uh yeah, and that's going to be a tough thing to incentiv how what in the world will incentivize them to want to work with
1:06:13
1 hour, 6 minutes, 13 seconds
others and disclose. I mean, I think what I'm finding personally from experience is I'm having a lot of companies come to me and they want me on
1:06:21
1 hour, 6 minutes, 21 seconds
their advisory boards because they want a piece of the action, if you know what I mean. Uh so maybe that's it is that we
1:06:28
1 hour, 6 minutes, 28 seconds
and that's actually what's going on right now in a lot of fields like quantum and AI that uh and it happened
1:06:35
1 hour, 6 minutes, 35 seconds
with nuclear technology in the past that ultimately the government said look let's let's make this a competitive playing field and get and rising tide
1:06:44
1 hour, 6 minutes, 44 seconds
lifts all boats. We don't need to restrict this just a few. Let's get everybody in the game so we can really raise the bar and and increase the uh uh
1:06:54
1 hour, 6 minutes, 54 seconds
what what the possibility is, the art of the possible in terms of technology development and transfer and and that's what I hope will be achieved.
1:07:02
1 hour, 7 minutes, 2 seconds
Yeah. How much do you think money is a factor in all of this? Like with particularly with those those, you know, companies, uh, those contractors who
1:07:10
1 hour, 7 minutes, 10 seconds
might be, you know, scared about like giving up their secrets and losing out on on on profits or or whatnot. Is is
1:07:18
1 hour, 7 minutes, 18 seconds
this a financial thing first and foremost for them, or is there more to it than just that?
1:07:24
1 hour, 7 minutes, 24 seconds
Well, I don't know what else is in terms of a for-profit commercial entity. Uh, and and maybe there is. I think you know
1:07:34
1 hour, 7 minutes, 34 seconds
some companies I think do look beyond that. Uh I mean look at the Bigalow uh I forgot the name of his company but he
1:07:43
1 hour, 7 minutes, 43 seconds
was he was he was clearly looking at wanting to understand the truth and I
1:07:51
1 hour, 7 minutes, 51 seconds
think I think the financial incentives I don't know if they were secondary but they were um at least on par with what he really wanted to uncover. Uh, so I
1:08:00
1 hour, 8 minutes
don't know if you've seen the the studies that he sponsored about consciousness.
1:08:04
1 hour, 8 minutes, 4 seconds
Some of them he did the skinwalker ranch studies. I know that.
1:08:08
1 hour, 8 minutes, 8 seconds
Yeah. So I I I I think there's and he might be a unicorn. I don't know. But ultimately, and I applaud him and uh for
1:08:17
1 hour, 8 minutes, 17 seconds
what he's done, but um but the big ones, the big primes, I don't know if you can get them away from a profit motive. What
1:08:25
1 hour, 8 minutes, 25 seconds
I was encouraged by this week, and this is a little bit off topic, but for uh not everybody might be on board with the Trump administration, but and
1:08:34
1 hour, 8 minutes, 34 seconds
the current Secretary of War, but uh he kind of gave an ass chewing to defense contractors this last week, uh saying,
1:08:41
1 hour, 8 minutes, 41 seconds
"Hey, look, uh we we don't we're not going to fund and support anything that's behind schedule and over budget."
1:08:50
1 hour, 8 minutes, 50 seconds
and you know because and and we're not going to support any of your companies that go reinvest in stock buybacks and CEO payraises. Uh we we want we want you
1:08:59
1 hour, 8 minutes, 59 seconds
to deliver and if you don't deliver what we need that's better than the adversary, you're you're not going to be on contract. And so those those new
1:09:06
1 hour, 9 minutes, 6 seconds
acquisition policies I think are spoton and that that might be see a culture change from industry to be so overly
1:09:14
1 hour, 9 minutes, 14 seconds
profit driven because if you know that the government's going to judge you by performance uh and and then that will ultimately in the long term lead to long
1:09:23
1 hour, 9 minutes, 23 seconds
larger profits. So so we're looking we're looking at changing the incentive structures there which I think is really
1:09:29
1 hour, 9 minutes, 29 seconds
good. Now, how that translates to UAB, I I don't know, but um that's a thing that the landscape's changing in that that regard.
Chapter 23: Misinformation campaigns
1:09:39
1 hour, 9 minutes, 39 seconds
Yeah. And you mentioned developing technologies like AI and stuff like that. I know it's really hard to say, but where do you think that's going to take things? Do you think that, you
1:09:47
1 hour, 9 minutes, 47 seconds
know, the AI development will accelerate the disclosure process or give us more tools to be able to uncover the truth or is it going to continue to complicate
1:09:55
1 hour, 9 minutes, 55 seconds
things because now we can't really trust what we're seeing on the internet with the videos and is it a deep fake and is it this and is it that? You know, how do you think this is changing the game?
1:10:07
1 hour, 10 minutes, 7 seconds
I think uh the ladder might be the the real answer there in terms of misinformation and not untrustworthiness
1:10:14
1 hour, 10 minutes, 14 seconds
of of data. And and of course this is just uh of the government has a very active misinformation campaign on on
1:10:23
1 hour, 10 minutes, 23 seconds
this. We know this uh I've spoken about the book project beta by Greg Bishop and
1:10:29
1 hour, 10 minutes, 29 seconds
this whole Air Force OSI smear campaign on on um Paul Benowitz. Do you know about that?
1:10:38
1 hour, 10 minutes, 38 seconds
Uh no not really. Oh well look it up. Look up the book. It's a great book actually. Good read.
1:10:42
1 hour, 10 minutes, 42 seconds
Good writer. Greg Bishop. But this happened uh I don't remember the exact time frame 70s 80s Kirkland Air Force
1:10:49
1 hour, 10 minutes, 49 seconds
Base and there was an independent private citizen who was believing he saw UAP activity over this Air Force base. I
1:10:57
1 hour, 10 minutes, 57 seconds
may get some of this wrong. Don't yell at me people. I I hadn't read the book for about a year, but it was a great book. And what I know for a fact is and
1:11:04
1 hour, 11 minutes, 4 seconds
so they ended up performing a great deal of misinformation to make drive this individual citizen uh to almost have a
1:11:12
1 hour, 11 minutes, 12 seconds
nervous breakdown and um and they were uh and so this kind of misinformation and discrediting of credible people who
1:11:19
1 hour, 11 minutes, 19 seconds
are witnessing UAP some associated with military activity is ongoing. I know it.
1:11:24
1 hour, 11 minutes, 24 seconds
I was I'm a firsthand witness of it because when I visited Arrow, the Alderman domain anomaly resolution office for the first time. Uh that's
1:11:33
1 hour, 11 minutes, 33 seconds
what occurred with me. Uh and I I I've shared this in public in the past. I won't belabor it, but uh we know it to
1:11:41
1 hour, 11 minutes, 41 seconds
be true. And in fact, some of the arrow job descriptions that were um listed for people hire being hired last year or the
1:11:49
1 hour, 11 minutes, 49 seconds
year before were uh uh experienced with information operations and disinformation and perception management.
1:11:58
1 hour, 11 minutes, 58 seconds
Okay, it's we know this this is not we and that's just that's that's a that's
1:12:05
1 hour, 12 minutes, 5 seconds
counterintelligence 101. It's what we do as a nation. We don't admit uh what we do in a lot of areas. We don't admit
1:12:14
1 hour, 12 minutes, 14 seconds
that we spy on other nations, that we operate in other count's territorial waters. Of course not. We say we don't.
1:12:21
1 hour, 12 minutes, 21 seconds
We deny that. Uh even though we do. So that's that's and that's out there. Uh so this is we're doing the same thing in the UAP domain. It's it's it's okay.
1:12:31
1 hour, 12 minutes, 31 seconds
It's an important national security uh purpose for this. But on this topic, we're starting to basically deceive everyday Americans, I think, with the be not the best intent.
Chapter 24: Range fowlers
1:12:42
1 hour, 12 minutes, 42 seconds
You said that the US Navy is sitting on a treasure trove of information when it comes to uh UAPs. Um, can you go into a
1:12:50
1 hour, 12 minutes, 50 seconds
little bit more detail on that? Um, and it ties into a separate question I have about like the information that you can actually gather for about UAPs that are
1:12:59
1 hour, 12 minutes, 59 seconds
underwater versus in the sky because we've seen lots of videos and and declassified videos about flying UAPs,
1:13:06
1 hour, 13 minutes, 6 seconds
but there isn't so much out there about the underwater kind. What kind of challenges um are are posed by that?
1:13:14
1 hour, 13 minutes, 14 seconds
So, I have a good story here. First, uh, I went and gave a lecture at Yale University Society for UAP Studies last
1:13:22
1 hour, 13 minutes, 22 seconds
year, the year before, and I never say no to a university. So, for all your audience there, if any university has a club or a department that would like me
1:13:31
1 hour, 13 minutes, 31 seconds
to come and speak about UAP, I will do it.
1:13:34
1 hour, 13 minutes, 34 seconds
Should come to McGill here in Montreal, I should try to get that set up.
1:13:39
1 hour, 13 minutes, 39 seconds
Connect me, please. Um, yes. And I've heard I've heard of McGill. That's great because I I think the next generation's
1:13:46
1 hour, 13 minutes, 46 seconds
key here, Rob. But so I gave this talk and I I was just so encouraged by this and a young man comes down after my talk
1:13:54
1 hour, 13 minutes, 54 seconds
and he's a graduate student and uh I won't give him you his name, but I totally related to him because you're
1:14:01
1 hour, 14 minutes, 1 second
here. He said, "Hey sir, I was a Navy SH60 Seahawk helicopter crew chief." And
1:14:09
1 hour, 14 minutes, 9 seconds
uh so a lot of respect there for this this sailor, former sailor. And he said uh let me tell you a story and and it it
1:14:17
1 hour, 14 minutes, 17 seconds
changed me forever. I was on the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, an aircraft carrier. We were on deployment, nuclear
1:14:24
1 hour, 14 minutes, 24 seconds
aircraft carrier, and I was a part of the squadron. And he said, uh one day, uh one night, we were expecting to do a
1:14:33
1 hour, 14 minutes, 33 seconds
drill, a a man overboard drill. Now I've been stationed on aircraft carriers. I was a deck watch officer. So I drove the ship for eight hours a day at the USS
1:14:40
1 hour, 14 minutes, 40 seconds
Kitty. This is my people. You know, these are things I've done for a long time. And I know the drill. When you have a man overboard on aircraft
1:14:47
1 hour, 14 minutes, 47 seconds
carrier, you don't send a boat because you're the water the the the flight [clears throat] deck and etc. And the boat deck are so high off the water line. You send a helicopter. Go recover the person overboard.
1:14:57
1 hour, 14 minutes, 57 seconds
That's your procedure. So they were going to do a drill where they're going to recover someone goes overboard with a helicopter.
1:15:04
1 hour, 15 minutes, 4 seconds
and he gets woken up and everything was strange to him because there was there's usually a this is a drill announcement and there was no this is a drill
1:15:12
1 hour, 15 minutes, 12 seconds
announcement and so he's there they're they're getting the aircraft prepped.
1:15:16
1 hour, 15 minutes, 16 seconds
They're getting the crew on board and he's the crew chief and and he it just seemed really unusual and and like
1:15:24
1 hour, 15 minutes, 24 seconds
urgent and stressed and hushed or rushed and he asked the he saw the pilot standing by the cockpit with night vision goggles looking up on the flight
1:15:32
1 hour, 15 minutes, 32 seconds
deck of the air aircraft carrier at something and he asked the pilot, "Hey sir, what's going on?" And he and he took the NVGs and gave them to the crew
1:15:41
1 hour, 15 minutes, 41 seconds
chief and said, "Look up." and he looked up and over the aircraft carrier traveling around the same speed in a
1:15:48
1 hour, 15 minutes, 48 seconds
linear trajectory was a metallic sphere about the size of a smart car is what he called it, a Whimo. And it [clears throat] was just there moving.
1:15:57
1 hour, 15 minutes, 57 seconds
Uh and they had been alerted to film it because this was in 2021 right after the
1:16:05
1 hour, 16 minutes, 5 seconds
Joint Chiefs of Staff due to congressional pressure directed all military units to document UAP whenever
1:16:13
1 hour, 16 minutes, 13 seconds
they were observed around military operations. So they flew up and this they they launched and they got by the
1:16:20
1 hour, 16 minutes, 20 seconds
UAP and they and his job was to take the forward looking infrared video system and film the UAP. And they filmed it for
1:16:29
1 hour, 16 minutes, 29 seconds
a couple minutes and at some point it just accelerated over the horizon a really rapid rate. And he
1:16:36
1 hour, 16 minutes, 36 seconds
[clears throat] came back down and they gave the the video to the squadron intel officer and I'm not sure what they did with it. They sent it in for a report.
1:16:45
1 hour, 16 minutes, 45 seconds
Uh and he said, "Sir, uh that wasn't the only time. This happened often on deployment and and the F-18s who fly at
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a higher altitude saw many more and they they were even weirder because they would move at right angle trajectories really rapidly and accelerate at
1:17:02
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unbelievable speeds." and he said, "Our squadron had a a folder on our secret
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laptop that we kept in the ready room, and in the folder were dozens and dozens of videos." And the name of the folder
1:17:16
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was range fowlers, which I think was really funny because uh you know this was all about working in a range a
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training range and uh being offshore flying military training events and uh and the term range fowler fowler like a
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fouled anchor means messing up the range. You know what I mean? like that's a term in the military
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and uh to use that is basically a code for UAP videos and uh and he said we just had we had
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tons of these videos and that was one squadron on one ship you know going now to the USS Omaha's
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crew chief or bridge watch stander Alex Wiggins who's testified in front of Congress who told me about yeah we saw these things on the Omaha I went on
1:18:04
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another ship called the USS Jackson we saw these things all the time do video for licking infrared video and he said
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we saw so many of these things that we were basically desensitized to them. We okay there another UAP and that's that's
1:18:20
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so those are just the think how many are all around other ships that are just not it's not coming out. Arrow's not sending this stuff out daily. They're keeping they're they're keeping it under wraps.
1:18:30
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Wow. That's a great story.
1:18:33
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Well, I hope some of this stuff does come out because uh you know, we need uh the the more we can get out there, the better off we'll be, I think. And uh
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seems like we're getting there slowly but surely.
1:18:44
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Oh, I'm sure of it, Robin. With with venues like you, your platform, and again, more people having courage. This
1:18:52
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was really this was really encouraging to me. So, uh this this one the last hearing last year in November, uh or no,
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when was it? forgive me on a date, but Alex Wiggins was a a witness and he came
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forward and became a witness because of because of me. So when I testified uh uh
1:19:14
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during my hearing, that was November, pardon me. Uh he called me up afterward and said, "Hey sir, let me tell you what I seen." And we had an ongoing
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discussion and finally he said, "Yep, go ahead. Send me my name and info to the Hill. I'm ready to do this." And think
1:19:30
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about this. So then and then before that I I attended Brian Graves hearing. So what we're seeing now is more and more
1:19:38
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people come out and and that's one thread. The other thread as I mentioned is now universities are establishing programs to start researching this with
1:19:46
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undergraduates and graduate students actively wanting to study the phenomena.
1:19:51
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And then you have more and more of the public just getting interested. And you got major news uh figures [clears throat] like Brett Bear on Fox
1:19:59
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having this special with folks like me and others. Uh Carl Nell, uh really applaud your buddy Rick who got us on
1:20:08
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that show. And so uh and this is just now think about this. It's going to keep coming and coming. I think eventually there will be an administration that
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says, "All right, we we got voters who really want us to do this and uh and they're going to do it in some way." It's an exciting thought. I know a lot
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of people are looking forward to that day. Amen. Yes, sir. Well, thank you so much for your time.
1:20:30
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Uh Tim, it's been great speaking with you. A lot of fun. Before we wrap it up, is there anywhere that you would like to send our audience to some of your work or I think you have a book coming out soon.
1:20:39
1 hour, 20 minutes, 39 seconds
Hey, thanks for mentioning that, Rob.
1:20:41
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Yes. Uh, I wish it was sooner, but yeah, I do have a book coming out. It's not a book on UAP. It's a book about
1:20:49
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leadership, but I think it's relevant to this topic because we need good leaders coming forward uh to to help us really
1:20:57
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address the topic and get our government to do what's right. And so, it's my leadership journey. I tell a story about
1:21:04
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my time in the Navy, what I learned, and then how I applied it when I was working at this agency called Noah. The title of the book is holding fast in heavy seas.
1:21:15
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Subtitle is leadership in turbulent times. And it's just my sea stories about trying to lead when things are difficult. And if anything, it's pretty
1:21:24
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appropriate to this topic. And I do talk a little bit about the UFO experience I've had and and whatnot. So, um it'll
1:21:32
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be on Coler Books hopefully sometime in 2026.
1:21:36
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Awesome. Looking forward to that. Thanks again so much. um would love to speak with you again. This has been great. Um
1:21:44
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and everybody who listened, thank you so much as always. Please, uh like and subscribe and do all of those things.
1:21:50
1 hour, 21 minutes, 50 seconds
And also, we are on all the streaming platforms, too, like Spotify and Apple Podcast if you'd like to listen to the show there. Uh we are present
1:21:58
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everywhere. Thanks again, Tim. Uh it's always great. And uh yeah, see you next time. You're a great host, Rob. Thank you.
1:22:06
1 hour, 22 minutes, 6 seconds
Thank you very much.